Do you like or hate Donald Trump, and why?

@Blowin

"Sure they might have faced tremendous forces of opposition in the minerals council, but it was still piss weak."

You'd prefer them to be in opposition then?

Great list Stu but how does Corbyn and Sanders and even some of AU Labor's policies, all of which predate the election of Trump, fit the argument that the left is lacking a narrative? Both Corbyn and Sanders were laughed at by their own side and both very nearly got up. Had it been Sanders instead of Clinton running for office he would be president now. Clinton was Trump's big break. Shorten is broadly ridiculed but is moving back towards the left of centre in many policy areas. Having said that I also take the point about Trump/Bannon grabbing the moment. Its highly likely we will have Labor governments in the UK and here come the next elections.

The front page of the NYT WAPO narrative. You and guysmiley are almost word for word, day after day.

Same with the "everyone is racist", "you're all misogynyst", "deplorables don't deserve a vote" narrative. Youse are all over that as well.

You swallowed the corporate clinton feminism diatribe hook line and sinker.

Same with factobum he's all in on it too, as much as he's trying to distance himself from 'liberals', youse all share a similar worldview and corresponding narrative.

Or youse are all just prolific campaigners, where the clock never stops to take check.

So apart from Trump being the president the U.S. had to have, could he actually represent something genuinely positive?

He says "We reject the ideology of globalism and we embrace the doctrine of patriotism."

It's potentially a short step from patriotism to ugly nationalism but still, this is clearly resonating in a huge way.

Saying that the only way to remedy the economic and social ills caused by globalisation is through the nation state would have been unthinkable in polite company only a few years ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/26/donald-trump-globa...

So sypkan, the left which has not been in government in any developed country for several decades is responsible for the ills of globalisation?

Aaaah words in mouth again sypkan.

I’d prefer them to stand up for their beliefs .....that’s their job.

If they don’t do that , what the fuck do they do ?

Useless fucks compromised their ideals to stay in power but couldn’t compromise their urge for personal power and got booted anyway.

Fight to the death for themselves but cave over the good of the nation.

hey sypkan,
not wanting to be pedantic but you don't spell youse that way.
y'all need to know that its spelt ewes, as in sheep ok?

Sypkan, why so shrill, dude? You're losing it.

I told you eons ago to get off the Kool-Aid.

The "NYT WAPO ", "everyone is racist", "you're all misogynyst", "deplorables don't deserve a vote" narrative is YOURS to own, rail against, fight the right "identity politics" fight.

And it's breaking if not broken, snowflake (I'm beginning to dig that term. Cheers!)

Clinton was on my shit-list back in 92. Maybe round the time of Ricky Ray Rector.

Bill Clinton that is, youngster.

It's been increasingly downhill and worsening ever since in the US. Shit on one side of the house, always shitter on the other.

But there is an awakening. Forget culture star wars, there is a new hope!

Forget the media megaphones, corporate or otherwise, and look beyond. It's out there...on the net and in the real world.

And now, get me away from this binary, dumb-ass, icky thread. Satan, I implore you!

Shalom.

"In the US the Republicans have already started to pay the price and will pay even more heavily in 2020 unless they can unify behind more moderate policies."

Maybe not.

Set me straight please.......isn't Trump gaining in popularity.
Aren't his chances of reelection pretty good at this point?.
Isn't he now more popular than Obama was at the same point in his presidency?.
Didn't the republicans who identified with Trump in this election do better than the republicans that distanced themselves from Trump?.

Just trolling....

“It's potentially a short step from patriotism to ugly nationalism but still, this is clearly resonating in a huge way.”

That’s patently untrue , Andy M.

Like saying that cause you eat meat you might become a cannibal , or if you like women you’ll probably wind up a rapist.

Heaven forbid that people can be trusted to take an idea in moderation.

"Aaaah words in mouth again sypkan."

There's literally pages and pages of it on here blindboy if you really want me to go trawling. I only have to go a week or so back to find you throwing around "misogynyst" and "dead white male".

'Blue wave' blah blah blah...

Go for it!

"So sypkan, the left which has not been in government in any developed country for several decades is responsible for the ills of globalisation?"

Well now you're either going all andym on me, or you have no idea.

Time and place of a left wing govt?

And while we're on pedantics. No guysmiley its not ewes its youse. Though yes I get the relationship when talking about youse

"But there is an awakening. Forget culture star wars, there is a new hope!"

I'll believe it when youse back off the culture wars bullshit.

Talk about a binary view of the world!

stunet says

"I'd say we're a long way from business as usual. If people can't see that the right is owning the cultural moment then disillusionment awaits, as does yet more self-inflicted damage. And it's not enough to admit they own the zeitgeist, understanding why is paramount. For the first time in my lifetime a broad intellectual argument has been prosecuted by the right and it needs to be addressed."

"If the left doesn't take this seriously then it's going to be a long and frustrating battle, and they'll lose good people along the way".

How can the Right be "owning the cultural moment" when Hollywood, Academia and most of the media are progressive or Left?.

I'd suggest you think the Right's intellectual argument is new because you've been in a Leftist bubble.....not hard when the Left are controlling the narrative.
As I've asked....is Triple J Right or Left?....is Playschool Right or Left?....is Hollywood and every late night comedian Right or Left.
Owning the cultural moment....really?.

The problem for the Left is that they are deluded bullies who have lost their hold over the plebs.

If the Right are having success it is because they have better arguments in spite of the Left's information control
Eg. Open borders or secure borders.?

People wake up eventually

What are you talking about , BB ?

Look at the ALP’s policies ....mass immigration , TPP and it’s kin etc etc what could be more globalist than that ?

"...How can the Right be "owning the cultural moment" when Hollywood, Academia and most of the media are progressive or Left?."

You kinda answered your own question blob. Despite the misinformation from academia, media and Hollywood, the plebs voted otherwise

Thank fuck for that!

An real 'awakening' one might say...

Especially the hollywood bit.

...or maybe academia and the media aren't as left as you all argue.

Getting ahead of yourselves, chaps.

Fully left , Stu.

And that would have made me extremely happy if it was a left I still felt any kinship with.

Everyone carries on about Fox News and their partiality , they may be spot on for all I know as I’ve never watched , but most other media is left.

As for Hollywood ....sweet Jesus , it’s a SJW gobble fest.

Academia ....you read The Conversation, when was the last piece that wasn’t left leaning by an academic ?

Fully left?

Where's AndyM when you need him?

A country where Murdoch has majority media ownership and you think the media is "fully left"?

Couldn't give a rats about Hollywood. Long gone relevance for mine.

Read about Chinese migrants and abnormally large eco footprints on The Conversation today. Left, right? More the latter I'd say.

Blowin -

Patriotism refers to the feelings of affection and attachment of a people toward the nation.

Nationalism, however, is a discourse that tries to foster a collective sense of belonging among a population with the aim of declaring and maintaining political sovereignty.

Patriotism springs from love of the nation’s past; nationalism arises out of hope for the nation’s future, distinctive greatness. Nationalism in our time is probably the most powerful of political emotions.

There are only a few things that human beings will give their lives to protect—their family, their faith and their country among them.

Gotta be careful with nationalism Blowin.

Blowin, how the hell can you call the media fully left?? ;)

Hahahaha! Hooray for Hollywood!

Speaking of which:

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!"

1992. Big year!

Pat Buchanan.

Satan! Satan! Satan!

Preserve us from willful ignorance! If the media in the US is left wing then the Koch brothers and their mates have wasted north of a billion dollars trying to swing it to the right! And if you didn’t already know that then, you don’t know what you are talking about

Radio National (ABC) sounds like a mouthpiece for the left most of the time.

I have been getting an education of the first principles of partisanship over the last few months, and it was convincingly demonstrated to me that the media is by nature (trait personality) leftist leaning. The principle split between left and right personality is the degree of a person's 'openness' and 'conscientiousness'. The left unequivocally rate higher in 'openness' the right rate lower and vice versa for 'conscientiousness'

If you are in doubt of this, or want to consider how openness & conscientiousness apply to politics, take a look at the Political Compass test Blob shared (below) and ask yourself how each answer rates in its degree of openness & conscientiousness. A clear demonstration of this polarisation scale is very apparent to me.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/test

So then:
A natural product of openness is creativity, because it requires openness to the realm of the unknown (I am OK to elaborate on this concept if anyone is interested).

The arts is full of creatives, and there is a commercial pathway between arts and media particularly through the universities.

Murdoch is a businessman, not a creative, and more likely than not rates highly in conscientiousness. But he ultimately decides what political direction his media empire will take, and he seems to own a huge percentage in the overall voice of the global media.

"Radio National (ABC) sounds like a mouthpiece for the left most of the time."

Sure does ralph, and yet I love it anyway...well most of the time...

Just curious, to those claiming the media aren't left. Where does CNN fall on your little political spectrum?

They break the gauge, but Im not sure which way

I should clarify that when I first mention 'media' above, i mean the people within the sector that makes up the media. Later i describe it as a voice, which is a different concept altogether.

For sure , I’d failed to mention Murdoch . But he’s so partisan that I didn’t feel the need to mention him . Sounds ridiculous, maybe , but EVERYONE knows he’s partisan so it’s less insidious than the political influences of the other media.

Independent always !!! Classic. Independent maybe , impartial...not likely.

Actually , back to Rupert , he’s so politically influential that he’s the dog and the politicians are the tail . He MAKES policy and it’s the politicians job to spread the word . It’s an inverse to the usual media / political relationship .

BB - Everysingle day you’re quoting the NYT or the WP . They’re embarrassing in their overt left leaning views. Anyone who see’s nothing untoward about that moron from CNN still harassing the President about a case that he is entirely innocent until proven guilty of .....which , let’s face it , is not ever going to happen as there is no proof ... will never be convinced that most MSM is perpetually engaged in a political witch hunt because they’re engaged in the hunt themselves.

AndyM .

I wouldn’t dream of calling myself a patriot. It’s that most Seppo term and it just makes me think of crook , flag waving fervour.

Nationalism, for mine , just refers to a unity within a country. That we are all in it together. Community. National service was something everyone used to participate in as part of the social contract.

Different understandings of the terms I guess. Subtle differences but culturally important.

I don’t visualise Australians being patriotic, but I can visualise them being proud of Australia. Doesn’t mean we are going to march into Indonesia and invade them out of exceptionalism.

Nationalism can be used as a tool for nefarious reasons, but so can any emotive collectivism. Tribal , racial , tall vs skinny , dog people vs cat people. Doesn’t mean that the tool itself is evil due to its misuse.

Stir your nationalism stick as hard as you want , the Australian people would never stand to be manipulated in the manner of Nazi Germany or Mussolini’s Italy. We are too tolerant, too fair minded and too well educated .

Blowin, please go back and look. I would be surprised if I had linked to either of them recently.

So sypkan, no response to my two requests to justify your assertions. Credibility?

Why BB ? What’s changed ? You had such an erection for them before .

@ Stu - abnormally large eco footprints of Chinese immigrants ? That’s apolitical isn’t it ? Just cause a race is discussed, maybe even critiqued for their cultural practices, doesn’t make it right wing. I better look at it before I say much more though , I suppose.

PS No Hollywood ? WTF ?

They still pump out some glorious entertainment.

"So sypkan, no response to my two requests to justify your assertions. Credibility?"

I'm at work blindboy. And seriously even if I wasn't, I wouldn't have the inclination. Maybe crypto could do it. I hear he's good at 'research'.

My slackness aside. You have been toeing a certain line for years. It's all there, I really don't feel I need to prove anything. I'm sure regulars on here know what you've been on about.

And, to be honest there's nothing wrong with the crap you've been sprouting. It's all reasonably supported, one way or another, by something or other, but it's just a very narrow view of the world.

Much the same as blob, funnily enough....

Didn’t find any Chinese eco footprint as evidence of right wing behaviour at The Conversation , but I did find this :

https://theconversation.com/why-scott-morrisons-white-male-music-playlis...

Sweet Jesus , never go full Guardian.

"the Australian people would never stand to be manipulated in the manner of Nazi Germany or Mussolini’s Italy. We are too tolerant, too fair minded and too well educated ."

Haha, are you taking the piss??

Can we start with Howard, children overboard, foreign wars and the continuing program to place our military beyond reproach?

sypkan if you can't support your assertions, you shouldn't make them. It just makes it more likely that people will treat your comments as irrelevant. Hot air!

Nah , why ?

Aussies didn’t even want to participate in that shitty little venture in the Middle East , let alone a full battle dress invasion with plans to transform it into a new Australia.

Seems to me that people were very keen to overthrow Saddam and "impose democracy".

More importantly, Howard was re-elected on the back of such manipulation.

Australians are human as well Blowin, to think otherwise is, you know, kind of racist.

Aussies were worried about interest rates when Howard got elected. The potential invasion by boat people was secondary and that was defence , not offence. So it was hardly chest beating Uber Aussies for world domination.

Can you name one real Australian ie not a politician, who wanted to impose democracy on Iraq ? What a load of Seppo bullshit . Aussies couldn’t give a fuck if the Iraqies bowed down to an anthill as their political leader as long as interest rates didn’t rise as a result.

Stay civil Blowin. You can go and count the links if you like my guess is that, over several years, you might find 4 or 5. But don't let the facts get in the way of a gratuitous insult.

Whoa , not being uncivil . That is how I communicate. You know I’m not a go -back -and - confirm kind of guy , so I’ll just take your word for it.

So you’re agreeing that they are inherently left leaning though , right ?

Australians as a whole fell for Iraq War II hook line and sinker.

Don't think for a second that Australians can't be manipulated if the circumstances allow.

A strong democracy and a free press are safeguards before any talk of tolerance, fair-mindedness or education.

Not in traditional terms Blowin. They are only "left". In the context of the recent political dominance of the right.

"sypkan if you can't support your assertions, you shouldn't make them. It just makes it more likely that people will treat your comments as irrelevant. Hot air!''

Bingo, Blind Boy!

A man with a narrative looking to people it with characters on here.

And in other 'if the shoe fits' news...

"That is how I communicate. You know I’m not a go -back -and - confirm kind of guy..."

Ha ha! No fucken shit!

Anyhoo, speaking of Hollywood...again...anyone remember Evil Angels?

Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!

And now for something completely different, a film with a biblical theme!

Satan! Satan! Satan!

Get thee behind me!

Happy to do the Political Compass and find myself on the left libertarian just above my old mate Bernie and in between Corbyn and Mandela.