Do you like or hate Donald Trump, and why?

Hahahahaha, Sypkan! Too much Kool-Aid, dude.

"As someone who isn’t that into US politics, can you tell me if the Democrats have learned anything or are they still fielding more Hillarys ?"

Good question, Blow In.

Contrary to Sypkan's 'broken record syndrome' narrative, the Sanders factor has made and is making big impacts within the corporate Democrats establishment. It ain't easy - reclaiming or rather, re-making a party, let alone turning the ship of State - never is, but it is happening.

The Our Revolution endorsed candidates for example have already made some pretty big in-roads.

Watch this space.

If any good come's from Trump's presidency it will be that it was a shining example of everything that needs to be avoided in democratic politics and so by inference things will need to get even worse from here.

I watched a program on TV over the weekend about the midterms. The farmers* who were wearing hand guns and had rifles in their tractor cabins loved Trump and scoffed at the blue wave while the manufacturing workers who had voted for Trump on the promise of a return of the jobs were thinking of voting Democrat (as the jobs haven't come). The Divided States of America.

*Is it still the case US agriculture is still heavy protected with tariffs and government subsidies?

Westofthelake

Factotum makes a list of Trumps supposed crimes and, to some degree, everyone talking here accepts it at face value.
That is a big mistake that underlines the whole anti Trump hypocrisy show on display here.
His list was all fake news.
You could have detailed your rebuttal of the content of articles I posted but instead you avoid those facts completely and go off on a conspiracy theory tangent.
I'm accused of one sided, simplistic thinking because I expose the dumb lies you guys keep spouting.
Presenting the other side apparently makes me the one who is one sided.

Blindboy

Hard as I try I can't seem to find a date for when I didn't start beating my wife.

I don't take offence when you call me unintelligent.....I have no reason to, because I've worked out why you are such a good loser.......practice.

Now answer the question. If, as you say, you believe it is immoral to kill an unborn child at 8 1/2 months gestation and then sell the body parts, at what stage in the pregnancy does abortion become moral?.
I'll ask you another acute moral question as well.
What is the moral action to take if an aborted foetus survives the abortion?.
Give me all the nuance you can muster.

Blindboy

You reckon the British and American economies were going great until Thatcher and Reagan wrecked them.
Yes....you actually made that claim.

In a future museum dedicated to educating the public on how the left was wrong about everything, schoolchildren will gasp and marvel over the audacity on show at the Blindboy exhibit.
Stop getting you news from The Socialist Worker because you are making your team look very, very bad.
If the Guardian appreciates Thatcher as the economic saviour of Britian imagine what conservative journals I could quote would say about your insane opinions.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/john-rentoul-margaret-thatc...

Sharkman

Please stop calling economic migrants bent on breaking our laws refugees.

No, it isn't unchristian to prevent the third world from overrunning first world borders.
Christian or not, the first world should be compassionate enough help the third world appropriately.

...and please tell me how Christ's primary message of obedience to God's law is socialism.

Blindboy et al

Here is another unbalanced contribution that supports your totally rational Trump Derangement Syndrome

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/hating-trump-now-leftist-...

@blob, my question about the earth, given by God to mercilessly use by man or should God's gift be respected? Your answer oh righteous one

Blob, listen up you shallow lying friggin' idiot. You want to put words in my mouth? Do it to my face, you cowardly low life. You have repeatedly falsely asserted that I have supported abortion at 8 months and the sale of body parts. I did not at any time say anything approaching that and unless you can post those exact words from one of my posts then you had better grovel in your apology. I am seriously insulted by your comments. I have been consistently civil to you and have stated that it is good to have someone of your opinions in the forum. That is not a fuckin' licence to insult and abuse. Christian? Jesus would shit on you!

Man is just doing what nature has allowed and designed man to do with the Earth.

No one is down on the termites for eating the possum habitat , or the possums for eating the flowers that feed the wattlebirds , or the wattlebirds for stealing the leaf litter that insects use as habitat etc etc

Do you understand how nature works , Guy ?

Nature needs the constant destruction , reuse and reincarnation of energy and matter to create life. That’s all people are doing . Not everyone or everything wins and it’s not always pretty but it’s what we are meant to do.

We are born to consume and we’ll soon be replaced if we don’t .

Um, Blob, comrade, I didn't make that list. I even said this:

"I don't necessarily agree with that viral post in its entirety..."

I notice your rebuttal was what? The use of the term "sex abuse"? Yes, perhaps a tad over-wrought (though it is what it is)...what about referring to it as Trump's braggadocio about his "sexual conquests" then?

Fake news?

As for:

"Do you think some Muslims celebrated on 9/11 or not.....was Trump only guilty of exaggeration?"

The pertinent question for me is why would he exaggerate about actually seeing this with his own eyes?

Trump's Trump. You get what you get. I don't know how anyone that knew about him beforehand is really that surprised. Well, it definitely was a bit of a surprise that a grifter like him got the main gig...and it is embarrassing, isn't it? For a true believer, I mean. Must be frustrating too, propping him up. Imagine being his press secretary! They dissolve before our very eyes!

Anyway, forget the list, what about the post after it? No love for my liberal-baiting Jello, Blob?

You won't like this either then, I suspect.

Hahahahahaha, Blow In! Your 'theology' is as hilarious as any of your other stuff.

You on the bong, man?

Guysmiley

Grasshopper........My understanding is that God has made us stewards over the earth, and expects us to use our power wisely.

Apology Blob! Or admit you are just a troll.

Blindboy

Are you threatening violence?.
Oh dear...
So the condescending lefty mask slips and reveals a spittle flecked clicker.
Moral cognitive dissonance can be maddening huh?.
Sorry bout your dog getting run over but threatening tantrums won't look good on your greenie feminist resume bud.
get a grip.
You talk about my skills of comprehension but seem to have misunderstood plain words.
See, when you put 'im' in front of 'moral' it changes the meaning slightly.
Pay attention.
Or are you just pretending offence to avoid answering the questions?
I didn't say you supported abortion at 8 months.
I asked you if you thought it moral
You (finally) said you didn't
I asked at what point in the pregnancy it does
Answer the question
....and you have not been consistently civil.

Factotum

Yep.....your anti trump list was a tissue of lies
I love it when we find common ground

Post the exchange Blob or apologise in full grovel mode. And threatening violence? No just drawing attention to the difference between insulting someone on line and doing to their face. Not civil? Mate you haven't seen anything yet.

I imagine Blob as a 16 year old private school boy. You know the smart arse type who thinks that 'cos mummy and daddy have money they have radiant energy emerging from their fundamental orifice. Special little blobs who have never heard a cross word or had to do without anything their black little hearts desired. All short hair, long pants and daddy's opinions but, you know, shiny teeth, expensive clothes. Deluded little dicks waiting for an unanticipated meeting with reality, somewhere down the line, in some situation where daddy's money is no help.

'....if, as you say, you believe it is immoral to kill an unborn child at 8 1/2 months gestation...'
Moral is the opposite of immoral.....you must know this cause you were a genius at school, right?.
See, you have it all back to front.
No need to apologise......cause you just proved the left are wrong about everything....again.
I'm really sorry about your dog though..

Blindboy

There are professionals out there who are willing to help you out...

....but seriously, yes, really, .....you seem to be losing it badly,.....if you want to dish it out but can't take it then stop responding to my posts and I'll ignore your nonsense.

There is no way I will let some self fuckin' righteous prepubescent prat put words in my mouth to the effect that I support abortion at 8months for the sale of body parts. Losing it? No mate, well in charge and just getting started on you ....... but you usually disappear after your spasms. Lights out in the dorm?

Oh wow Blob, thanks for the Message who would ever have have guessed that you lived in The Shire and go to the same church as our beloved PM. And you got to shake his hand ! So exciting, even if it was before he was PM. I know it must be hard but you can wait another year until you leave school to get that surfboard you have wanted and, yes absolutely, a week in Byron during schoolies you will absolutely be able to stand up. So please keep me up to date with your little adventures, sneaking out to Maccas on Friday night why you little devil!

Blindboy

Keep raving please....

That exhibit is going to be a total centrepiece...

I think this network likes Donald.

https://nowthisnews.com/videos/politics/fox-news-different-reactions-reg...

@roc-k that was Blob on there wasn't it..............I think those guys do sincerity like no one else I mean how could you not believe every word they say talking to you like you are 5 years old impressive really really great.

"...Contrary to Sypkan's 'broken record syndrome' narrative, the Sanders factor has made and is making big impacts within the corporate Democrats establishment. It ain't easy - reclaiming or rather, re-making a party, let alone turning the ship of State - never is, but it is happening.

The Our Revolution endorsed candidates for example have already made some pretty big in-roads."

I hope there's an element of truth to this factobum, but to be honest, even in a best case scenario, I really cannot see the money wing of the party conceding enough ground to make a real difference. After all, not only are they the ones connected (addicted) to the big money, they are also the exceedingly most self righteous ones, of the wider conglomerate of the self righteous.

And, to add to that, the US has an over the top, absolutely non negotiable, disdain for even the word socialism. So for bernie to get anywhere in the US, that word would have never again to be uttered by him, or his mouth pieces. Not likely.

Whilst I would probably label myself as socialist, it's purely due to there not being a more fitting term available. I think this is a real problem for the left - there not being labels people are comfortable with owning. Communist is a slur, probably rightly so. Socialist is used to ridicule, possibly with merit. Lefty is fine with me, but many see it as derogatory. And liberal, has fast become the most pejorative of the pejoratives post trump. So what is there left?

I'm not right

Not real catchy...

So, being one of few left of the left comfortable calling myself socialist, I don't see a heap of crew rushing over to join my little wing of the left anytime soon. In fact, I see the use of the word as counterproductive and isolating in terms of rallying support. Tell that to your little media buddies.

Yes, all of a sudden it's kinda cool anongst college kids and bernie bros. but I do not see it having the wider appeal needed at this point in time. It's just not the right fit for the current zeitgeist, whatever that may be... We're all still just a bit too caught up, converted and connected to the aspirationalism and individualism of the recent past , be it for better or worse.

So while I think people are desperate and yearning for something vastly different to the rampant hyper capitalism encouraged by neo-liberalism, I really don't see any current viable alternatives broad enough to appeal to the masses. There should be, it should be easy, because even those of tbe right are now questioning neo liberalism. But there ain't.

I really see this as a broader problem for the left. To be brutal, with the exception of identity politics, they really have not developed any wider ideas at all of what they actually stand for, this has been going on for 30 odd years now. Basically, they have had no economic argument at all, and don't seem to be developing one any time soon.

They reluctantly gave up arguing alternatives to capitalism through the 70s and 80s, as the alternatives just appeared more and more...well...err...silly really. Then, through the 90s and 00s, they gave up on having any economic argument whatsoever, as they accepted econommic argument defeat, embracing their spurious 'third way'. Essentially adopting the right's extreme version of capitalism - neoliberalism, to fund their identity politics projects. Basically they said you look after the finances, and we'll do the social programs.

How well that worked out is up for debate....

It seemed fine for a while. Until the money, assets, and ideas dried up, leaving them high and dry with nothing to show. No assets, no arguments, little cohesion, plummeting credibility, and somehow, an overcooked but seriously lacking agenda.

So yeh, I'm up for your bernie magic...err... comrade, though I must say, even I think his arguments are a little bit simplistic and lacking.

And I really cannot see him winning over the wider population with his blast from the past ideas. Maybe he doesn't need to, a small margin will do it (along as he gets the electoral college thing right!). Maybe opposing trump will be enough, maybe...Personally I don't see it. The public crave something new. A better way. Something to believe in, something that crosses party lines. A new way. A 'fourh way'...no no no...scrub that last one.

Rehashed seventies socialism just doesn't seem to tick those boxes. The word is too divisive before one even looks at the policies.

But I'd love to be proven wrong....

The left needs something new. New ideas. A fresh outlook. A real economic argument beyond "we'll pay everyone a minimum fifteen bucks an hour".....but we have no idea how we'll do it...

A real cohesive, convincing way forward. Something to believe in.

Not an easy task, in a very divided world...especially when you've been asleep at the wheel for 30 years...but you can do it factobum. You and your two comrades, TT, SB, and maybe me..

But ya gonna have to give up on the marxism shit. This ain't 1884

OK Blob, do you think Jesus was a globalist or a nationalist ?

Do you understand that once upon a time the USA/Australia were dumping grounds for First world convicts , then they became very uppity first world "haves" , so the have nots were judged and told to stay at home , no matter what , even if they had nothing to eat/were persecuted for being poor (Blob) , and or their country no longer had the resources to sustain them , so the Blob , sends them back , because Jesus / God law does not matter when it comes to your countries law...hmm sounds very evil to me!

Blob , Jesus was a socialist , all men are equal and the Law of God and the teachings of Jesus are a Global message , not a nationalist one!

what's wrong with a socialist that believes in God and teachings of Jesus?

Its been a big night in the blob-a-sphere.
@blindboy, nah, I reckon blob is a mormon missionary out here for 12 months pounding the streets and getting doors slammed in his face. Who was it that got busted for giving mormons hash cookies? hahaha. He takes his frustrations out on here, its either here or satan's typewriter.
@roc-k, gold.
@blowin, even a bird doesn't shit in its own nest. Think about that one.

Humans don’t shit in their nests either.

Although I’ve never been to your house .......

But birds do eat their own babies and eggs , so I don’t get what you’re saying. Actually, I do get what you’re saying. You’re saying that humans are singularly abominable and we should be ashamed of our behaviour when it’s compared to the rest of nature . Which is total , utter garbage.

Humans are no better or worse than other animals. We utilise the Earth’s resources as we are intended to ie to increase our population.

So much relativism going on.

Such as ?

Excusing the worst of excesses/consumption as a natural trait.

Yes, we consume, but that doesn't excuse extravagant waste that pushes us up against the limits of growth.

I increasingly hear these arguments: you know...'well, we're humans and we're part of nature so therefore whatever we do is natural'.

It's relativism and it's horseshit. Sheer apologism for selfish wankers.

You think Chernobyl was natural?

Three Mile Island?

Bhopal?

Whatever Monsanto is putting into the environment?

All that is natural...?

Similarly when we take far more than we need. It's not 'natural'.

Generally it's just an excuse to let certain people get away with shit.

Pushing back or criticisng the dominant culture isn't calling humans 'abominable'. If anything, it's recognising the sanctity of human kind by perceiving the threats posed by short-sighted excesses.

"Humans are no better or worse than other animals. We utilise the Earth’s resources as we are intended to ie to increase our population."

Lack of insight there Blowing

When humans removed themselves from the natural environmental food chain then we are no longer part of natures deal.

Once our brains took on self-awareness humans had a choice other animals had none.

Then the start of agriculture and city states and we humans (you) have been fu(king the place up ever since.

Sharkman

Answer the question.

How does socialism incorporate Christ's primay message of obedience to God's laws?
It just doesn't.

Socialism is a man made philosophy.
Is Christ an epicurean or a stoic or an existentialist?.
You may as well ask if an omniscient God wears nappies.
Silly question

You need to talk in terms of moral principles more than human categories to show how Christ supports your politics.

Christ consistently pointed out the failings of human affairs while he revealed a higher way.
The need to fix the inner man.
Fix the inner man ....fix the world.

My personal opinion is that Socialism and all other forms of government are ok with God as far as they are compatible with His laws.
Problem is they usually fail badly..

Leftist compassion and capitalist philanthropy are both good, but
Leftist compulsion is less good than conservative liberty.
God allows free agency

Conservative focus on the responsibilities and rights of the individual and family are better than the leftist emphasis on the collective.
In general Socialist economies need compulsion to operate.
New Testament era Christian communalism and the Kibbutz system in Israel are exceptions that rely on strong shared belief.

On the other hand, support for communist governments inevitably morphs into totalitarianism.
The socialism in western democracies is inefficient with the money it takes from its capitalism. Half our tax disappears into sustaining the government that collects it......so less money available for social programs, and less essential profit motive.

Free markets deliver more prosperity to the poor than manipulated markets but also reap big reward for those at the top.
Still, Capitalism provides better outcomes across the board than big socialism ......if well managed.

But Christ does not fit into globalist, nationalist socialist boxes.

36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is NOT OF THIS WORLD: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews....
37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. (New Testament, John, Chapter 18)
My capitals

Logic

If man is part of nature
...and man creates Chernobyl
Then Chernobyl is part of nature.

Because I see a distinction between man and nature I'm, logically, able to see man as a steward, under God, with responsibility to manage nature wisely.

@blob, How do you see a distinction between man and nature?

So Blowin

....are you saying anything we do is ok .....any 'bad' thing is just another 'natural' outcome of the blind forces of nature?
How do meaning, morality....good and evil fit into this world view.
Are they real or just meaningless concepts?.

Aaaaahh Blob, extreme reverse peristalsis. Shit coming out the wrong end. Go flush your head and for chrissake brush your teeth. You're stinking up the building.

Oh and Blob how can you justify the rape and murder of Muslim women which you advocated in one of your posts?

Guysmiley

The Bible tells us that God creates the earth and the animals and man.
God then gives man dominion over the earth with a responsibility to manage things.
Man then stuffs things up to varying degrees.
This outline fits into my observations quite easily.

It is as logical to see a need for a creator as it is to not see a need of a creator....Einstein was thoughtful on this.
We talk about nature as if we are separate from it.....we see nature as deterministic and we see man as a moral, free agent.
We rule nature in incredible ways
It is in our nature to manipulate nature.
We see ourselves as moral beings doing well or badly depending on our moral compass.
Personally I'm looking forward to the earth's return to a state of paradise and think we should do all we can to make it happen.

At a tangent.....
The writer Roal Dahl decided to go to the top to address his 'God' questions so he made an appointment with (I think) the Archbishop of Canterbury at the time.
'Before we start, I have a question....are there animals in heaven' he asked.
'No there isn't' was the reply.
'Well, that's enough for me' Dahl said, and walked out. (My paraphrase)

Heaven is full of animals in my understanding.

Blob you missed the commandments. You know
Thou shalt not bear false witness etc.
....... but you usually find that with born agains. Big on theory, weak on practise but hey it doesn't matter God forgives sinners so why not?

Oh what about rape and murder Blob? Anything to say about that? A few extra words doesn't hide hate speech.

Blindboy

Glad you haven't attempted self harm, but just because your meds have kicked in it doesn't mean I'm going to risk your sanity again by exposing you to contradiction.
Stay safe buddy.

No Blob, no wiggle room here, you straight up lied about my views on abortion. Repeatedly over a number of posts. You want to try some smart arse put down, sorry wrong place. We frequently disagree here and from time to time we might get a bit heated but we do not indulge in the low life despicable tactics you have used. Withdraw now while you have that option.

And I'm left wondering how Team Left will respond to Blindboys sudden tilt to unhealthy abuse....even if only out of concern for his emotional wellbeing.
.....don't worry, I have realistic expectations.

SO Blob, do you believe that the world was created on the 23rd of October 4004 BC?

What about the End of days?

You must be feeling pretty chuffed with current state of the biblical world.

"But Trump’s most prominent electoral support group — conservative evangelicals — see it all as a biblical drama. At last, their great nation has an embassy in God’s own capital city — Jerusalem. And it means cataclysmic events proclaimed by prophecy are about to take place."

"The President of the United States is God’s right-hand man, many evangelicals believe. Trump is an imperfect tool God is using to create perfect works. This means nothing less than the end of days. And a one-way ticket to heaven."

Science is rejected. Evidence holds no weight against the word of a preacher.

What God wants, God gets, God help us all.

I reckon team left are with me here Blob. No-one wants offensive opinions put in their mouth by a mouthy, self-righteous prat. And your expectations may not include the consequences of your offensive behaviour. One last time, withdraw the words you put in my mouth.

I will even make it easy for you. Just state that you agree with my statement below.

"blindboy believes that decisions about abortion should be left to those best qualified legally and medically, in consultation with the woman involved."