Treaty

@Herc

Whats with the use of the word "Whitey"?

Do we find it acceptable to use the word "Blakey" or "Abo" ?

Not all non Aboriginal/indigenous people have white skin, these days we come in all colours Black, White, Brown, Chocolate,Yellow etc

If your going to focus on white skin folk though at least say "white fella" don't know why but it "Black fella" or "white fella" sounds better.

Although non indigenous Australian or non Aboriginal Australian sounds better.

Sorry thats about as politically correct as i get.

He no white fella, he no black fella, he no fella.

Good ol' Uncle Hercky, purveyor of such unlimited ego, hubris and intellectual vanity, whereby anybody who disagrees with his immaculate opinion is smothered by a foamy spray of bile-soaked frustration.

That's the sort of mental process we should all have.

Makes for entertainment though, innit?!

Carry on cobber!

Again, keep avoiding fact blowie, just ifs, buts, whatever's. More of your certain, racy, accurate aim on display! What do you think of the situation the video's display, the truth about the the blatantly breaking laws etc? Don't get too exhausted!

Anyway NickyM (yah can't fool me) don't be downers!

That was funny Hurckey, well done! Though I think comparing yourself to Downer is a bit harsh!

Although you do take the bait so well.

Anyhoo, this one's for you, you raw-boned stallion.

NickyM, your can't fool me, so certain, blithering detective work and accumen is now well and truly documented. Although it was never in doubt. Please don't make it worse. Again though more ifs, buts and whatever's. Or as stuie described your blithering attempts, more of your clan 'bullshit'.

Projections for successful native title claims indicate that 60% of Australia will be under native title. In WA it will be close to 80%. Treaty is a big step toward sovereignty and that is what the politcal class of aboriginals want. So if you want a separate nation within Australia of that scale support a treaty.

Where do those projections come from frog? I remember reading that Native title relies on a contnuous connection to the land so it sounds a bit alarmist.

.

not only does native title require a connection to the land but it also cannot be taken over land already held under an existing private land title. it could be 80% is true, i dunno, WA is a big friggen area but it sounds overly alarmist.

Really,  Frogg? The Kiwis have the Treaty of Waitangi and it's done no such thing.

Gee, the things you miss on a Sunday arvo ........ some good ole boy chestnuts and skeletons got an airing ........ well here's somethin to talk about having a beer around the babakiueria

As of march 2016, 30.4% of australia under native title (National Native Title Tribunal). A further 31.7% has claims against it. Historically most claims are approved.

Edited my post due to quoting a Quadrant article that added the term sovereignty to a survey question about recognition as Stu pointed out.

A long term aim of setting up a sovereign nation is held by some.

The practical form a treaty takes if it is ever achieved is not clear. The New Zealand example may be relevant but may not be as well as the times and circumstances are very different.

The point is treaties have major real world consequences that are poorly understood and underplayed in the usual media commentary.

I remember going thru a native title thing many years back in NSW regarding some family property out west and a couple of small mineral claims. The whole thing was mostly a storm in a teacup,. Non aboriginals wont be run out of town on any scale soon, but it gives the local aboriginal populations a say on how the some of the local resources might be used and gives them a way of taxing the people who profit from it, mostly mining companies and major players in agriculture. I dont agree with all of it , as I do think some of the policy is just flat out profiteering in some regions ,and has been subject to some rather dubious claims , however , apart from some added fees here and there and a couple of letters in the mail detailing certain native title claim boundaries , we remained relatively unaffected.

FFS, fair fuckin' go smiles! The thievin', lyin' bastards censored it, and left out all the butcherin' and rapes, and murders and torturin' and poisinin', and all the lies about the law and shit!

'The Queen has said it is "difficult to escape a very sombre national mood" following tragedies in London and Manchester in recent weeks.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40310959

The monarch said the UK had "witnessed a succession of terrible tragedies"'

"Put to the test, the United Kingdom has been resolute in the face of adversity," she said.

"United in our sadness, we are equally determined, without fear or favour, to support all those rebuilding lives so horribly affected by injury and loss."

This is the type of response the western world applauds and expects, when confronted by 'recent weeks tragedies'. Not a couple of hundred years of far worse tragedies, a couple of weeks of tragedies. Yet in the case of Indigenous Australians the expected response westerners demand, is move on, get over it and be thankful. Again 2 sets of rules.

Frog and others, what is your stance on the laws broken, and the laws governing stolen property? We surely can't play so dumb and make out that we don't know what is being talked about? Maybe we can, it worked for good 'ol uncle whitey! We can't even play the invasion card, because sleazy, good 'ol uncle whitey fucked up, and played the bullshit Terra Nullius/chimps card. So, knowing all this, knowing that the truth, and the law both say that Indigenous Australians are the truthful, sovereign owners of this land, how should we help make this a better place, and truly make amends. Remembering also, as british subjects, the queen's stance on such matters. Regarding a treaty, or a shared home, surely if the roles were reversed, we would want a real, a genuine change of heart from the thieves if we were to even consider wanting anything to do with them.

Also, if roles were reversed, looking at what is important to Indigenous Australians, and the home, the success that they cultivated, and their relationships to it, compared to what they have witnessed and experienced the country good 'ol uncle whitey, who puts the generation and ownership of money first and foremost, before any notion of relationship, family, what would you want and expect in your treaty?

If the roles were reversed, what would it take for you to truly want the perpetrators of your present situation to be a part of your lives? And how would you view the comparison of 60,000 years of legal occupation, to 200 years of illegal occupation? Considering the laws concerning stolen property. Considering we claim we want justice? What if you caught even just a whiff of good 'ol uncle whitey's good 'ol attitude in the air?

Here is is Frogs link he mentioned, quite a read i got halfway in and went yeah nah, kind of some weird statements in there too

https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2016/11/break-australia-part/

Dude in the comments pretty much summed it up

"I am glad someone has had the guts to expose the reality behind so called “Recognition”. It means a takeover of Australia by 3% of the population. That sort of thing is not unheard of in human history but it never works. Eventually the other 97 per cent realise they have been dudded and take over. In a democracy “majority rules”. Get used to it. But this thrust to minority rule will drag on for the foreseeable future given our educational and media systems which promote self-loathing and political correctness."

Something stinks! Ando!!!

Think you fucked up Frogg.

"National Congress of Australia's First Peoples surveyed 600 of its members and found 88 per cent think it is very important that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people receive recognition in the constitution." - Pro Bono Australia

I was gonna accuse you of fake news but your mistake is believing that right wing, reactionary rag, Quadrant. 'Sovereignty' in the survey is termed constitutional recognition (55%) or the other meaning is treaties and agreements (37%). Assuming 'soveriegnty' means a second state is a liberty Quadrant has taken to frighten lily-livered readers.

And what has been advocated is not a 'state within a state' but greater autonomy over their people. Again Quadrant haven't noted that nuance, instead issuing a shrill whistle just one octave lower than Alan Jones or Ray Hadley.

My old man was head of the Land Titles Office when Mabo went down. He knows those laws as well as anyone else in this land and avoiding ceded territory was codified twenty years ago. If anyone thinks a sovereign black state with independent government and laws is gonna form in Australia they've either got rocks in their head or an agenda to push.

I'll let you ponder Quadrant's justification.

Quadrant was started by the CIA and funded by them for much of its history. Old habits?

good work Stu

'Dr Kaufmann's study may not be conclusive proof that self-determination is the difference, but it's pretty compelling. Either Australian Aboriginal people have a knack for death and destruction, or something else is going on.

That's not to suggest Australia doesn't pretend to support self-determination, because we certainly do when the rest of the world is watching. In 2008, the Australian Government endorsed the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, a document which was crafted specifically to set out the rights of First Peoples to govern their own lives and communities.

Yet virtually every Australian government policy announced since flies in the face of our stated international position. The Northern Territory intervention and its bastard son, the Strong Futures laws, for example, breach almost half the articles of the UN Declaration.

Dr Kauffman's study was completed in 2003, a decade ago, but today my people are further from self-determination than we've ever been.'

The solution, obviously, is for the Australian Government to practice what it preaches, step back and let us make decisions for ourselves. On that front, I can offer you a couple of guarantees.

The life circumstances of Aboriginal people will not improve overnight. There is no silver bullet. Over the course of that journey, there will be corruption and nepotism. There will be wasted funds, political in-fighting, and examples where well-meaning programs cause more harm than good.

Put simply, we will make many of the same mistakes that have been made - and continue to be made every single day - by mainstream Australian political and governance structures.

On occasions, our 'parliament' will be as toxic as yours. On occasions, our leaders will embezzle funds and abuse their travel entitlements, just like yours do. On occasions, our leaders will make bad decisions that favour themselves and their families, just like yours do. On occasions, our communities will erupt into crime and violence, just like yours do.

But I can also guarantee you this: over time, the advances we make will be far greater than those under a system of colonial occupation.

How do I make this guarantee? Because we could hardly do any worse, and because decades of international experience, research and outcomes tell us so.

We are the only first world nation on earth that thinks self-determination is a dirty word, and yet Australians are in the worst position of all to lecture.

The fact is, my people will not simply surrender anymore than you or your children would if Australia was invaded tomorrow. So you can talk till the cows come home about wanting to help Aboriginal Australians, but until the conversation shifts to how non-Aboriginal Australians can stand aside and permit Aboriginal Australians to help themselves, then we're just marking time.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-21/bellear-indigenous-sovereignty/503...

Intersting article but ive got a feeling they are barking up the wrong tree though.

Are indigenous communities in Canada, USA and NZ as remote and landscape as harsh as remote areas of Australia?

Most of the problems for Aboriginal people are in remote communities.

Suicide rates: Check out the map on this page (now remember most aboriginal people don't live in remote communities) https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/people/aboriginal-sui...

I beat the same goes for life expectancy and for other problems like alcohol abuse etc, don't have the time to research now but i bet rates are higher in remote areas,

And in these remote communities they would have more more control over their own community's being almost seperate from the system, while in more built up areas and cities they are more a part of the general system.

It has nothing to do with race, it has to with the fact in remote communities for most there is nothing, low population= no or little employment opportunities, and poor public facilities and infrastructure that also affect health and education.

No money and nothing to do or nothing to aim for or strive for brings boredom and pain that leads to abuse of alcohol and drugs to numb the pain or boredom and suicide is also much more likely under these conditions.

The problem is you can't really dictate to those living in remote community's to move to more built up areas with better opportunities to Improve their lives, and if you do you would be accused of destroying culture etc (Tonys closing down remote communities)

IMO the best thing to do is use incentives to get Aboriginal people to move to more built up areas, but i can still seeing that being controversial.(because we have this romanic image of aboriginal people in remote areas practising their culture etc)

Then the other problems are based on discrimination based on race and stereo types.

These can only be overcome if Aboriginal people and non Aboriginal people become one and are working and living together, not separated and working against each other.

Most people discriminate based on not having contact with the people they are discriminating against, its harder to discriminate people or have negative stereotypes do when you work or live side by side with the people you may discriminate against especially when they become your friends.

You tell em Ando! They need you! They wouldn't fuck'n know! Good 'ol uncle whitey, keeping his flag in the back door, leaving shit everywhere, sneaky fucker!

indo..."It has nothing to do with race, it has to with the fact in remote communities for most there is nothing, low population= no or little employment opportunities, and poor public facilities and infrastructure that also affect health and education.

No money and nothing to do or nothing to aim for or strive for brings boredom and pain that leads to abuse of alcohol and drugs to numb the pain or boredom and suicide is also much more likely under these conditions.""

so the only soln is to move (incentivise) remote communities to the cities? any other solns?

'Also, if roles were reversed, looking at what is important to Indigenous Australians, and the home, the success that they cultivated, and their relationships to it, compared to what they have witnessed and experienced in the country that good 'ol uncle whitey created, who puts the generation and ownership of money first and foremost, before any notion of relationship, family, what would you want and expect in your treaty?

If the roles were reversed, what would it take for you to truly want the perpetrators of your present situation to be a part of your lives? And how would you view the comparison of 60,000 years of legal occupation, to 200 years of illegal occupation? Considering the laws concerning stolen property. Considering we claim we want justice? What if you caught even just a whiff of good 'ol uncle whitey's good 'ol attitude in the air?'

Again completely avoided. However we can get an idea of the answer, an answer good 'ol uncle whitey's clan unashamedly say makes their hair stand on end, in its brilliant, shining super, marvelousness!

However, keep in mind, this whole, absurd, earth shattering, life changing, never to be forgotten, illegal, mind bending, magnificent drama below, where blowie brilliantly out boxed and reflex jabbed, before ground and pounding, and trying to murder his horrendous, horrific, evil assailant, and associated cunts and moles, was over a ridiculously trivial incident. Just a garbage, gutless wave. An incident so ridiculously trivial, so ridiculously stupid, so ridiculously infantile, compared to what happened, and is happening to Indigenous Australians, that it carries as much weight and importance as a childish maggot's fart. (Although I would have loved to see a video of the actual reality of the ' bintanged', 'scoobed' dramatics.)

https://www.swellnet.com/forums/wax/12736

'as i approached my car a smiling mother said to her young son "look at that mans face honey! " , i stared at her and tried to fathom what type of person would be so insensitive to anothers situation.Then i told her to "shut the fuck up , mole,"'

'I can't say i moved on and put this bullshit behind me so easily. The fact that i'm still talking about it now reveals the truth.
In fact i went into a fair spiral of hatred towards my fellow man and society in general following this little episode. I pretty much bailed on humanity till the holidays ended. Then i would cruise the short streets of 1972 with my fish killing baton at hand only half deluding myself that i was'nt looking for Loud Mouth, the man that pretty much single handedly robbed me of my love of the human race.
Of course i got over it. But it took me a whole lap of this awesome land to come to grips with the act of a single fuckwit. And that was a few years ago.
The lesson i've learnt ? Don't humour some clown that wants to bring you down to their bitter level or, as a wise fella has told me since- Never get into a mud slinging match with a pig cause you both end up covered in shit- only the pig likes it.

So again comparing the reaction to the above dribbling fiasco, to how we would feel if subjected to the situation Indigenous Australians are in, why would we expect Indigenous Australians to just move on, and want to continue to smear themselves in good 'ol uncle whitey's parroted porky pies, the racist indo shit, and maggot's farts?

Indo getting close to the mark. But this is more complex because really no one wants to see a form of human culture die. But that's what's happening and happening in a slow destructive manner. However, there are many elders, mainly women, who are changing the manner of education. This is a new and interesting area. Importantly, it has shown success. Fundamentally, the elders will drive and manage the childhood education, in the manner they have in the past. The interesting process is connecting / matching / integrating this with modern day. But certainly, there would not be a need for communities to move to 'cities'. This, of course, is aimed at those in the bush but maybe adapted for all indigenous. Keeps the 'identity'.

Herc I've just taken a half hour to actually read your last 3 posts and I think the point you're making nails it, but is always lost in the argument. Everyone is trying to help when in reality all the aboriginal people want is to be given the tools and right to help themselves, which seems ridiculous considering it's their own fucking country. It's like dad asking the kids for pocket money.
The issue that arises from it though is that whilst the current generation of Australians empathize and want to help, they don't consider themselves to be invadin' pillagin' colonialists even if the first people see them as foreign occupiers.

"If the roles were reversed, what would it take for you to truly want the perpetrators of your present situation to be a part of your lives? And how would you view the comparison of 60,000 years of legal occupation, to 200 years of illegal occupation? Considering the laws concerning stolen property. Considering we claim we want justice? What if you caught even just a whiff of good 'ol uncle whitey's good 'ol attitude in the air?"

All valid points, everyone here would agree that if we were invaded by the Japs in WW2 there would have been a guerilla fight for the ages. Similarly the cold war hysteria had everyone digging bomb shelters and buying up Russian phrase books but the first people are now on the other end of the stick, half a dozen generations in. On that note, do you think bringing justice into the argument is productive? All it does is get the nationalists riled up and makes the bleeding hearts brigade tune out. There's a lot of anger and resentment amongst the first people but I think there's buckley's of relaying that back to the general public, and even less chance of using it as a negotiating chip because as was mentioned by someone earlier, this is apparently a "democracy". The problem with this "democracy" is that the first people are just half a million people in a country of 20 mil+ so they have little chance of ramming their agenda through without selling it to the public first in a way that makes them feel good about doing it. So the quandary here (in my opinion) is if the anger and resentment remains amongst the first people while demanding the Federal Government and Australian Government to give them back their rights and amend the constitution, they actually have less chance as the do-gooders won't feel good enough while they're doing it. As you said earlier,

"The life circumstances of Aboriginal people will not improve overnight. There is no silver bullet. Over the course of that journey, there will be corruption and nepotism. There will be wasted funds, political in-fighting, and examples where well-meaning programs cause more harm than good."

This may be true, but Aboriginal people need to put forward an argument that bullshits all the way through the negotiation saying that this isn't the case. Tick the boxes, make everyone feel good, slap some backs and crack some beers with the latte' brigade. It really needs to unite ALL of Australia and make everyone feel good rather than drive a wedge of indifference. It's crap, I know, but its "democracy". On that note, if Aboriginal people were offered all that they asked for would it be considered "justice"? Probably not, so whats the way forward?

Gaz, I don't know. I said on here that I used to rack my brain on this subject. I studied the subject formally, extensively in 2 states, and have done different kinds of work with Indigenous Australians. Indigenous Australians pain is obvious. I don't think that being nice to racists has done any good, and view the truth as the same as outing Nazi and Klu Klux clan butchers and liars, which is applauded. What was done to and is being done to Indigenous Australians is unmatched in horrific, prolonged brutality.

Barbie's good 'ol uncle whitey standby technique of throwing the onus on Indigenous Australians is pure, blatant, cocky racism. 'Gee, look, after 60,000 years that culture just up and died on us!' Indigenous Australian Cultures aren't dying, Indigenous Australians are actually being cunningly, and brutally attacked and destroyed by good 'ol uncle whitey, to this day, so good 'ol uncle whitey can steal their home. Indigenous Australian Cultures, which by their very nature are all, extensively inclusive of the land, the country, their home, their family, were thriving until good 'ol uncle whitey started cunningly, greedily butchering Indigenous Australians, and their sacred land, their family. And with fresh blood and guts dripping from his hands, good 'ol uncle whitey continues divvying up the spoils.

I abhor racism, and I don't think the be nice to a racist week approach will or has done anything but enable racists. Expose the sleezy, cunning, lying, brute like behaviour, and its clan, the faster the better. The more that the despicable, sordid, horrific truth about what happened and is happening to Indigenous Australians, and this embarrassing 'foundation' bullshit of 'advance Australia fair', is exposed, the more chance we will all have of a worthy, exemplary foundation.

It's a mess that's for sure. I can't see any way forward without both sides making sacrifices, which would be a bitter pill to swallow for the aboriginal people who've already given almost everything. At the same time whatever way forward still wouldn't fix the issues in isolated communities or fix the generational sorrow felt by many. It's lose-lose they almost need to be planning to help the next 2 or 3 generations as I cant see how they can help today's aboriginal community with attitudes as they are.

Let's be real here, most in this chat know little of human evolution and migration. Yes, there are problems in the outback, hence my suggestion, go bush because it's quite different to urbanised indigenous. Also explains why we have such diverse views on ways to move forward. But Treaty it ain't.
With regards to 'racist'. Well if the Human Rights Commissioner got it wrong then what's the chance anyone will get it right. But that's a digression.
Gaz, see if you can get an answer of question(s) from indigenous representative bodies - it ain't easy, even from Mundine and fellow members.

Treaty would be the first step of many smaller ones. "Racism" exists and I'm actually with Blowin on the fact that it applies to white people too but white people have hardly been affected by it in Australia so its hardly comparable to the situation. The aboriginal people were no better off when the colonials arrived than the Jewish were 100 years ago so perhaps we need to recognize that the anti-aboriginal sentiment in Australia today is no better than anti-antisemitism. I don't think anyone's dumb enough to deny the horrors inflicted on the aboriginal people, unlike the Jews. Australians won the war, unlike the aboriginal people so its not fashionable to talk about, just like the holocaust deniers seem to frequent the axis countries.

There's a perception that Aboriginal people have it easy because there may be slightly more welfare available to them than non-indigenous Australians which is crap. A poverty trap is a poverty trap and $400 a week isn't helping anyone if there aren't any jobs, or people won't even grant an interview because of prejudices.

And TB, Aboriginal society would be full of opposing views just as any democracy is but surely Mundine lost his status as community representative after his comments about Daniel Geale and coverting to Islam.

The irony of that comment is that Aboriginal employment was probably higher in 1957.

Yes, many would love to see them succeed but fewer are willing to put their money on the line to do so than they would like to admit. Youth unemployment amongst aboriginals in rural SA would be huge, although I haven't got a supporting number.

I reckon employment based on race would be almost the standard in most of regional Australia, whether people like to admit it or not.

http://caepr.anu.edu.au/sites/default/files/Altman/Journal/1995_Economic...

Again you dodge, wheedle and connive around the truth blown. No substance. Again, based on your maggoty reaction to your comical, feeble tiff in crap waves, when you were a limestone charger, and you attempted to murder that guy, and your horrified plea to insensitivity regarding that fiasco, how do you feel that Indigenous Australians would react to british liars and thieves butchering, raping, pillaging, stealing their home, and breaking their own law? And then good 'ol uncle whitey's clan knowingly profiting from that, by keeping stolen property and perpetuating racism? Again manipulating 'law' to do so? Barbies approach, that is, manipulating language, putting responsibility and ownership of what good 'ol uncle whiteys clan are doing to Indigenous Australians onto them, is a classic racist technique. Calling out and labeling of Nazi war criminals, Klu Klux clan and their maggoty, racist, good 'ol uncle whitey, blowie kind is just that.

More maggot shit. So considering your response to your ridiculously trivial, but self described life changing, dramatic, trauma when you you were a limestone charger, who had that ridiculous tiff over crappy waves, and you tried to murder that guy what would you think would be fair, truthful, justice based terms if you were an Indigenous Australian requesting a treaty?

@Happyas

I think it's the main solution but i think in remote areas where there is mining etc there should be policy where the company can only mine if it employees and trains locals or those closest in distance or at least where possible.

This would include anyone no matter race or skin colour but obviously benefit good 'ol uncle blakey's, not just good 'ol uncle whitey's who flys in.

The point he's making that's constantly overlooked is that the aboriginal are expected to just suck it up and assimilate despite the genocide, rapes, murders etc that occurred during the British invasion/settlement.
To put it in perspective, holocaust denial is prevalent amongst former axis countries & their sympathizers. Why? Because they lost the war and don't like to think of themselves like that. On the other hand, ALL western countries have it ingrained into them that these are facts. Because we won that war so we don't have to think of ourselves as war criminals. That's something only the bad guys do. Now consider the aboriginal people. They lost that war, so their tale of horror and genocide isn't spoken of amongst Australians often because we don't like to think of ourselves that way. We're not the "bad guys".
This in itself is fine, modern Australia didn't commit these crimes but it needs to be understood that every young aboriginal learns these horrors when they learn of their history just as every young Jewish child does. It's ingrained into their existence now because 1788 marked the beginning of a horrific time for the aboriginal people. They were shot, burnt, pushed off cliffs, poisoned like animals but hey at least Kevin Rudd said sorry for the stolen generations.

I know this isn't a productive argument but I think it's tough for a whole race of people to move forward when their kids have to learn that these atrocities occurred because white people thought they were worthless because of the colour of their skin. The treaty won't fix this, but it's a positive spot on the history book for future aboriginal kids to look at and say "hey that's one of the good bits where things got better for us".

@Indo I read somewhere that Twiggy was trying to do something like that. A good idea if true

Gaz, its deeper than that. There is a major difference regarding the past and present situation of Indigenous Australians. The british illegally claimed Terra Nullius, so claim there was no war, or invasion. Just a slight misunderstanding, that they thought Indigenous Australians were inferior chimps. Vermin chimps. 'Oops, sorry, but bad luck, move on.' That's how their home was 'legally' claimed. That's the 'foundation'. That's advance Australia fair. The thinking that we will now continue to determine what's best for Indigenous Australians just rubs their faces in the racist, maggot shit and lies. They deserve at the very least a fair, honest, just treaty. To determine their own lives, as totally innocent humans in this mess. Put ourselves in their shoes.

I can't see any way forward without a new Australia day, anthem and amending the constitution. To me, I have no issue with doing any of those because

1. I can celebrate Australia day on any day, I couldn't care less as long as its not in Winter.
2. The anthem is shit. It does a hopeless job of representing modern Australia.
3. The constitution is arse paper. Doesn't contain a bill of human rights nor does it define our nation or its citizens.

I'm obviously all for a republic, so maybe we should cut all ties with the British and attempt to kill a few birds with one stone. There's no benefit to being in the commonwealth anymore anyway from what I can tell.

Agreed Gaz. Again more conniving, bullshitting, racist maggot. Again, allow Indigenous Australians self determination. Talk to them. Respect, their 60,000 years of amazing success, or as you do continue to portray it as garbage.

I don't have a problem really with any of those things, but it wont actually change much for Aboriginal people, it's more just tokenism.

Saying sorry is tokenism. Talk is cheap. Amending our constitution/flag/anthem etc is symbolism. That requires a nationwide effort.

Like I said you are a bullshitter, racist maggot. You continually call and portray Indigenous Australians 60,000 years of success and Culture as quote, 'garbage'. Make up some more of your marvelous, dramatic stories. You make bullshitting look so easy, racist maggot.