Trump
it used to be thought that historical materialism was the weakest part of marx's writings. but since the GFC, it now appears to be the strongest, most reliable element. capitalism is eating itself, just as historical materialism predicts.
trump's presidency is destiny. no more feeble guiding of the ship of state, perpetuating a slow and steady decline. trump will bring on the great collapse of capitalism. he's the annointed one, the one to usher in the communist paradise!
"What the bourgeoisie, therefore, produces, above all, is its own grave-diggers." - Karl Marx.
"Give me convenience or give me death!" - Jello Biafra.
"Consumers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your chain-stores." - erm, me.
blindboy wrote:The most perceptive piece yet written about him.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trum...
Can't say I agree BB.
I think to start talking about Trump as a tyrant and also comparing him to dictators gives the position of president too much credit.
I would go so far as to say that IMO the presidential elections over there are just a dog and pony show while business as usual continues.
The article claims that " America is a breeding ground for tyranny" - I firmly believe that the U.S. has suffered from tyranny for decades now and it has little to do with elections.
Eisenhower (whom you would think would know a thing or two) is credited with the quote that we're all familiar with - "We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex".
Well that unwarranted influence has well and truly come to pass and it looks like it will continue regardless of which charismatic smooth talker (Obama) or loud mouth clown (guess who) is their figurehead.
I see that the main game of toppling and installing governments and going to war if necessary is still in progress and it has little to do with the guy supposedly at the top.
I remember discussing with several very well read Canadian friends when Obama first came to power. I made a few comments about 'hope' and 'future' and the like....I was greeted back with wry smiles and not much else. didn't think much of at the time, but looking back I think they were perhaps acknowledging my naivety in a polite kind of way.
while we're on the topic......
https://www.ted.com/talks/yanis_varoufakis_capitalism_will_eat_democracy...
Just a quick point fellas, what we have now is certainly not capitalism. To examine why you must look at both the structure of currency, its distinction from money, and examine who is in control of it. The entire Western world (and each successive country militarily rolled, displacing and killing so many) has (or soon gets) central banks. You must understand that a central bank is chapter 5 in Mr Marx's book "The Communist Manifesto". The rate at which the price of currency is determined - the interest rate - is centrally set, like many things in Soviet Russia. Let that sink in. The entire money system is centrally planned.
I'd argue that if interest rates were not set artificially low, post 'tech wreck' by Greenspan's Fed, there would not have been such capital misallocation that led to the US housing boom, and resultant subprime mortgage mess (think: "The Big Short", but the best film concerning this event is "Margin Call") What monster will the insanely low (and negative: 1/3 of Europe's government debt now features a negative yield) rates of 2008 onward birth?
If we had true Free Market Capitalism, the market would set the rate of interest; and a multitude of local markets would set varying (and higher!) rates of interest all across the globe as individual human actors weighed up risk and reward. It doesn't, and they don't.
Similarly, trade is not free. If it were, we could ship anything anywhere, with no restriction. Try importing certain Australian products into China, or Japan for example. It is all tightly regulated by central organisations; at the negotiating table planners compete to ensure favourable access. Any disputes are sent to a centralised regulatory body. That ain't capitalism.
For true capitalism, maybe examine trade 1815-1905ish, and its money system?
I've posted this book in its entirety before. Chapter three (pg 75) refers to the period 1865 - 1914. It has many echoes to our own time, including how it ultimately ended?!
Shatner'sBassoon wrote:"What the bourgeoisie, therefore, produces, above all, is its own grave-diggers." - Karl Marx.
"Give me convenience or give me death!" - Jello Biafra.
"Consumers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your chain-stores." - erm, me.
http://www.openculture.com/2012/06/the_karl_marx_credit_-_when_youre_sho...
what we have is capitalism, pure and simple.
you seem to mistake capitalism -- an economic system based on private ownership of the means of production -- with free trade and free markets.
velocityjohnno wrote:Just a quick point fellas, what we have now is certainly not capitalism. To examine why you must look at both the structure of currency, its distinction from money, and examine who is in control of it. The entire Western world (and each successive country militarily rolled, displacing and killing so many) has (or soon gets) central banks. You must understand that a central bank is chapter 5 in Mr Marx's book "The Communist Manifesto". The rate at which the price of currency is determined - the interest rate - is centrally set, like many things in Soviet Russia. Let that sink in. The entire money system is centrally planned.
I'd argue that if interest rates were not set artificially low, post 'tech wreck' by Greenspan's Fed, there would not have been such capital misallocation that led to the US housing boom, and resultant subprime mortgage mess (think: "The Big Short", but the best film concerning this event is "Margin Call") What monster will the insanely low (and negative: 1/3 of Europe's government debt now features a negative yield) rates of 2008 onward birth?
If we had true Free Market Capitalism, the market would set the rate of interest; and a multitude of local markets would set varying (and higher!) rates of interest all across the globe as individual human actors weighed up risk and reward. It doesn't, and they don't.
Similarly, trade is not free. If it were, we could ship anything anywhere, with no restriction. Try importing certain Australian products into China, or Japan for example. It is all tightly regulated by central organisations; at the negotiating table planners compete to ensure favourable access. Any disputes are sent to a centralised regulatory body. That ain't capitalism.
For true capitalism, maybe examine trade 1815-1905ish, and its money system?
Hmmmm...
Oh, and don't forget to chuck in the environment itself yelling "ENOUGH!"
Boiling frog syndrome, anyone?
TRUMP! A man of these people!?
Check more of Sean Dunne's work here. All worthy.
Actually chook I would be interested in your opinion on how capitalism eats itself, via the historical materialst perspective. Rather than these forums descend into name calling etc. I did briefly study Marx at Uni, although most of my perspective comes from the historical/financial field.
From what I can see, the amount of intervention done by govs and CBs (acting on a Keynesian playbook) has created an increasing amount of unintended consequences, which have been responded to with (dumbfoundingly) more of the same - things like QE, or Draghi's "whatever it takes"; resulting in the CB owning more and more of the bond market and increasingly, even stocks! The solution this year is to target negative rates, thus consuming capital itself. This is the only way I see "capitalism" dying - and central planning at its worst.
Nevertheless, I'd be interested to hear alternate takes on it. Many from many quarters are predicting the "end game" - financial collapse, jubilee, revolution, environment giving up (yes TT), end of easily accessible energy, one world GOV, fascism, feudalism returning... We do live in interesting times.
johhno. i don't have much to add. ....my knowledge of marx is just undergraduate -- i was studying chinese history. on the face of it, china went from feudalism to communism without going through the capitalist phase. i wrote an essay on whether this volated historical materialism. but i can't remember any details.
all ethical and political courses at uni just ended in a shit fight. i lost interest. the only thing i know about political theory is that you should never give power to those that seek it.
Cheers chook.
Trump has recently caused a furore around the origins of ISIS (it's not climate change!) For a presidential candidate to go there, ballsy
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2016/06/16/something-going-worse-thou...
quote
"That Trump gets this is little short of amazing, and yet truth often comes to us in unexpected ways. He may be an imperfect vessel – and that is surely an understatement – but he is absolutely correct in this instance: this administration and this President either “doesn’t get it, or he gets it better than anybody understands. It’s one or the other.”
The media and the Never Trumpers leaped on this statement and translated it into the old Obama-is-a-secret-Muslim trope, but that’s not what he was talking about. He was talking about the largely unknown history of our intervention in Syria, where Hillary Clinton was the jihadists’ best friend and benefactor. It was she who led the charge to “liberate” Syria, to arm the “moderate” head-choppers and do to that war-torn wreck of a country what she had done to Libya. Obama knows it: and so does the media. But their lips are sealed.
Fortunately, mine aren’t. "
Where art thou oh bumboy? What has happened to that lying POS you support Shillary?
I don't see you! Where are you hiding?
Come on. Lets see you support her now in her time of need!
Lets look at some facts huh? I know you hate them. Typical left wing numpties hate facts because corruption coarses through their veins like Jack Daniels through a drunk.
Left the Ambassador of the US to die. Lied about the reason she did so.
Has had millions of dollars from foreign despots land in the Clinton Foundation accounts - which isn't legally registered incidentally. I know you don't have any legal skills. Use Dr Google! Even you could find this information.
Only 5.7% of donations from the Clinton Foundation go to charitable causes. Look it up!
WJC's bro was granted a gold exploration license in Haiti - never occurred before - but was par of the pay to play deal of the foundation in Haiti.
Clinton deleted more than 30 thousand e-mails that were subject to a subpoena. This is a jailable offence.
She has your smarts though. She deleted the e-mails at her end, not realising that she had sent them to others and so she her "intent" to lie is now obvious.
How deep is that hole you have dug for yourself? I cant wait to see your latest expose on facts. You hate facts. tehehehehhee
Well, soon it will be what it will be. Odds still saying Hilary. FBI re-opened emails case.
This is worth posting and watching, Stu may appreciate the excellent investigative journalism so missing in today's world:
I'll try a different tactic to discopoo, because you know, we don't get on and stuff, and I actually kinda like blindboy, so...come on blindboy you can't start a thread, consistently bag trump then sit quiet while your girl gets smashed in the media (well maybe not smashed, more so, can no longer be obtusely ignored) , geez it appears even the guardian is trying to save face now, realising Clinton is indefensible... quite a development
https://www
.theguardian.com
/commentisfree/2016/oct/31/the-podesta-emails-show-who-runs-america-and-how-they-do-it
While I may have appeared to support trump I can honestly say I would have never voted for him, I'd vote Jill stein. But with these latest revelations if I had to choose between the two, I reckon now, I would have to go with trump, the system, especially hers, is just too corrupted.
FFS now it looks like Clinton did actually "create ISIS", once a convenient statement, which did seem a bit of an exaggeration, not so now...
Come on blindboy, two horse race, could you really vote Clinton with a clear conscience?
You too turkeyboy?
Pilger on the propaganda machine, disturbing what we've been conditioned to accept
https
://consortiumnews.com
/2016/10/28/selling-regime-change-wars-to-the-masses/
Having trouble posting comments today.... Must be a glitch.
Anyhoo, sypo..... So you would vote for trump?
I was trying to avoid stating that sheepdog,.... but considering no one else wants to play...
I honestly cannot commit myself to it,
It would have to be a gun to my head, must choose one or the other type scenario, in that case, on the current information I think I would vote trump, and I already feel dirty just for saying that
It's a matter of, in the current choice, the system is so twisted and broken, as is the democrat party.... that I see no other option, a vote for Clinton is a vote for all this to continue
I think we're better to throw the cards in the air and see where they fall, it seems it doesn't really matter, we're fucked either way. I think I'd have a clearer conscience voting trump, because a vote for Clinton is accepting and endorsing all that is wrong
I've had enough of the secretive invasion of the world, and the covert supporting of terrorism while refusing to acknowledge and face the fucking obvious
Who'd you go with sheepdog?
Sypo..... You could've just said "yes"....... bahahahahaha pmsl...
I wouldn't vote for either.... probably do what I did in the Australian election, and look at a third party purely as a protest vote.
The mainstream media seems to always mock John Pilger - I can't work out why...
probably because he does what the media used to do andym, while most have become propaganda spooners only. a really strange development considering the advent of the internet was in there somewhere
the game is must choose one sheepdog!!
I already said I'd go third candidate
Because the mainstream Western media are complicit.
Trump.
Anyone but Clinton. That means Trump.
Fuck the status quo.
And I'm a major beneficiary.
Actually, revolution lite would be more to my taste.
Can I keep all the pretty , happy things I've acquired whilst still tearing apart the putrid political / economic complex of the last 40 years.
Better make that the last 70 years.
Actually , maybe stop the clock at 1997 when Darwins theory was last working in my favour.
Always makes me laugh to hear people that are willing to destabilise the entire foundation of the modern global economy based upon the premise of computer modelling pronouncing an abstract prediction for the planet in a hundred years time, yet are vociferous in their endorsement of the one person that is virtually guaranteeing a continuation of the profit driven regime change war , the third party proxy war , the Neo Cold War and the continued antagonism of China that could potentially lead to war.
In summation : war, war and more war.
Real arms blown off, screaming in abject horror, bombing of civilians war.
But you're right, he grabbed a women on the pussy, let's hate his guts.
Just like we did for Axle Rose when he grabbed a groupies snatch in a coke fuelled bender.
Bomb Iran into the Stone Age or grab a women on her box ?
It's an indication of the "elite" if that's who the choice is , but I'd take groping over mass murder any day.
PS. Got to admit I have literally not heard a second of either Trump or Clinton speak since the election was announced. Literally not a second . So take that as you will, but I think I'm the better for it.
Trump is also keen to get rid of the TPP - which is a great thing for Australia.
Addenendum : Fuck China, let's keep those cunts in their box.
You think the USA are evil overlords......
Fun US election factoid:
Trump actually paid Clinton a large fee to attend his wedding. In slightly differing ways, that says a huge amount about how disgusting each of them are.
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I just want their constitution to be respected again. A copy hangs above my desk & it's a great shining light for liberty in the world. (+Bill of Rights and Articles of Confederation 1789) Extinguish that flame and, well, the 21st Century won't be so pleasant.
I nominate Ron Paul as President. (And I have no say)
Hah! Ron friggin' Paul? Go Trump. Go nuclear.
Thanks Velocity. I like a good video clip!
The weird thing is how long it has taken people to see Trump as the solution. It should have been clear when she let the US ambassador and three others die that she cared little for the American people. Another with the global BS of open borders for retards. Absolutely no idea that community and culture require a solid bunch of people who identify with the same things.
My work is to do with the mkts so I see sheep every moment of any given day. The thing that is clear is that a lot of people reach the same conclusion at the same time - rightly or wrongly. So, right now it is obvious Trumpy is picking up craploads of people like syper, sheepy and co.
The system is corrupt - worse here. Conditioning makes people see Trump initially as a monster because he doesn't say the sort of bollocks that people have been conditioned to expect by the media who are in bed with the clowns.
At the end of the day, one person corrupted the system at the expense of the country for her own gain. What kind of person gives credibility to a liar, cheat and a fraud who has rorted the system against them by voting for her?
All the talk of Russia when there is only one person who sold a 20% stake of US uranium to the Russians for a few million bucks into the foundation. Bucks that were not recorded.
Besides, Trumpy's missus is a winner. The Clinton family remind me of the deformed little gremlins that lurk at the end of the garden.
Disco, no love for your #1 fan Blowie?!
And if Trump is your solution, what is your problem? How is he going to "make America great again"? What does that even mean?
Actually, on just one thing in particular - his bigger than GW Bush's tax cuts for the corporates/elites/usual suspects - how's that gonna play out? You being in the 'mkts' and all, maybe you can give us all some insider, economix type, good oil shit?
An oldie but prescient goodie...
Cheers Stu, Mkts here as well - it affords you an independent viewpoint and usually requires excellent analytical skills, and a willingness to look at all possible causes. Agree the US, for its flaws, is better than other places as they tend to shine the light on corruption more closely. I do look to the US, it's a liquidity and scale thing, which means following the election/Fed/reports...
I'll try to stay out of this thread until election, but in last hour a vid has come across my radar that is totally staggering:
I can't vouch for who the guy is, but his Wiki is plenty impressive. If what he is saying is true, the Republic is fighting for its life
Edit: I've just been through a history of the Roman Republic's fall into Empire, the parallels are just amazing. Who plays Caesar? Who plays Augustus?
One word on Dr. Steve Pieczenik: COINTELPRO.
Knock yourselves out, conspiracists.
Trump will win and we will all be better , as he knows how to grab a pussy and why!
Trump will win and we will all be better , as he knows how to grab a pussy and why!
Trump will win and we will all be better , as he knows how to grab a pussy and why!
Velocity or even Star Wars!
Democrats just looking desperate now,
Even Obama doesn't look cool anymore
Choose hope? Not convincing barak
Freedom of choice.
Whatever drug Peta Credlin and Andrew Bolt are taking should be banned... They list the next possible "Trump" for Australia..
Pauline Hanson
Cory Bernardi
Tony Abbott
Andrew Hastie
Credlin goes on to write "When people say to me “there’s no way Trump can happen here”, I tell them they need to go for a drive outside their leafy suburb, find a pub, sit down in the front bar and just listen."
I'd like Peta to tell me which front bar it was where she sat down in and listened bahahahahahahaha....
And people buy this shit?
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/credlin-were-ready-for-a-t...
hey sheepster-ado-da
check this out ..... its very good .... make sure you watch it to the end.
lol yeah seen it, floyd...... But hey he could've added a few more thing onto Hilary.... It aint just about the emails with her....
I bet there a people in the developing world watching this USA democracy freakshow, and they're probably thinking, " umm thanks but I'll think we'll stick with a dictatorship" bahahahahaha
too true sheepster, benevolent dictator any day of the week or perhaps informed and educated consensus politics like in Norway ... never possible here, the national IQ level is way too low. Lets just have the shit fight race to the Uncle Sam way of doing things ... how many decades is it now since real wages increased for the yokels voting for Trump? Is it 3 or 4 decades?
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Dunno, Floyd...... But either way, the USA is fucked... Hilary created the Libyan nightmare (along with France of course)..... Gadaffi was the guard of north Africa.... Sure, not a nice guy, but with him murdered and chaos in Libya, thousands are making the dangerous crossing over the mediterranean sea to escape the new radical regime.... So Hilary in my eyes has thousands of deaths on her hands AND European countries apart from France can rightly point the finger at her.... France, who pushed the UN with Hilary to bomb Libya and kill Gadaffi have no one but themselves to blame for their current situation...
So Sheepy , Australia must have a very low rating based on your , Hilary formula of Lybia. We participated in Iraq x 2 , Afghanistan , East Timor , helped create the Syrian situation , we have millions of deaths on our collective consciousness , but as an interesting sideline we have Pauline Hanson increasing in popularity , and having the balance of power in the senate , yeah USA is sure fucked , which means we are really fucked!
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My goodness but you two do love to draw attention to your low IQ and inability to use google. From a leftwing site: http://time.com/money/4318531/trump-middle-class-voters/
And to farkman, I have absolutely no deaths on my conscience. I give absolutely no toss what so ever for those middle eastern scum that have been kidnapping westerners and killing Christians for decades. Not even the wealth states of the middle east will accept them. And you wonder why Hanson's popularity is increasing? Duh.
dear discostu , yes I have no wonder about you and Pauline , having no conscience at all , as being restricted by ones IQ, is a science , which you share with your alter ego Pauline , how does it feel to be clad in fish & chip wrappers , going for a country roll?
and yes those middle scum who have been killing Christians for decades, you Christians must feel like a minority group!
Time Magazine is left-wing?! Yeah right, really got the joke now, tomodachi... (or rather, 'watashi ha ZenAgain-san no tomodachi desu' ?)
Disco-Muppet.
Go Trumpy! C'mon mate! You can do it! Regardless of the fraudulent machines, the dead voting multiple times and non citizens voting, you can win!
The most perceptive piece yet written about him.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trum...