What's what?

That David Salter article must be amongst the most short sighted I've seen for a while.
Do we discredit greens pollies for driving cars or wearing leather shoes in the same fashion?
Being a savvy businessman is nothing to vilify him for its not like hes waging war on the working class like gina rinehart. The whole thing just sounds like a whinge over sour grapes. He's damned either way it seems. Keeps his money, people whinge. Gives it away, david salter whinges. If he wants to influence public policy then media exposure is the way to do it and if he wants candidates then money is the way to get them.

RE Dick Smith article: It was an A+ grade hatchet job, even better for completely ignoring Dick's current concerns.

Let's face it, everyone knows Dick is a bit of a twat. A hypocritical twat - he built his first business on cheap Japanese imports then turned around and said others shouldn't do likewise, he tells people to avoid fossil fuels but flies everywhere in helicopter - but it'd be an error to dismiss his argument out of hand because of his personality defects. 

Look at the people who follow Al Gore for his climate campaigning, yet big Al has had some choice words about homosexuals over the years, and his wife ran the PMRC (Parents Musical Resource Center) advocating for censorship in music. Neither detracts from his Incovenient biz.

Seperating the message from the personaility involves mature, critical thinking...but yeah, forget all that if you just wanna take a chainsaw to the party.

True that SN, I'm yet to meet a philanthropist who got rich by practicing what they preach.

Without wealthy benefactors it's simply too expensive for new political parties to enter the lower house and influence government policy, hence why the upper house gets all the cowboys and new political parties only get lower house MP's when they defect from the wealthy major parties.

Dick wins!

8th post!

About Dick!

(That's what that Salter piece is about. The Dick! Do some background if you like about his "treasonous" ABC issue. It's all about the Dick!)

Nada about what that hippy Winton was banging on about. Something to do with the sea.

Whatever.

I was opposed to the scale of the marine parks initially as they affected me directly .

I believe that the vast majority of Australian fishermen now practice admirable levels of restraint in the amount of fish they keep, so I thought the pressure of fishing should be spread as widely as possible . Access providing the greatest barrier to fishing pressure in a lot of locations.

But now with the added threat of foreign fleets targeting our near shore waters I believe we need the absolute rejection of legal grey areas that total marine reserves provide.

Go Tim Winton .

No fishery has been decimated by line and reel (or pole and rope) marine parks should be open for rec fisho's. Bag limits and size restictions & no taking of spawing fish or crustaceans or any thing in the inter-tidal zone.

Pass a Cth law banning pro fishing within 3 Nm of the coast. Period. Buy the licences out. Shark net do fcuk all to the environment compared to purse seiening or one super trawler.

Good writer Tim he is intelligent enough to know the Government used the marine park as a political pawn.

The same people who make decisions concerning the ocean and marine parks and protecting so called endangered ocean species think fish farming is good for the ocean and fish stocks.

1.8 kg of wild seafood to grow 1 kg of Salmon.

Plus grain feed .

Plus antibiotics .

The thing about fishos I don't get is how can they on one hand rely on the environment for their recreation yet many trash the place with the place on the other with their dis-guarded line, cigarette butts, plastic bags, empties and anything else they haven't the energy to carry back to their cars.

Because a lot of them are land lubber fuckwits that have no love or respect for the ocean.

Yet most , if they catch anything , practice catch and release fishing because that's what they do on the fishing shows they watch .

Funny situation.

Also don't forget that most people you see fishing aren't proper fisherman anymore than the crew hitting the beach on the board that's been sitting in the garage for a year aren't proper surfers.

10 percent of fisherman catch 90 percent of the fish.

The rest just turn up , catch fuck all and turf their old line , pilchard packets and empty red bull cans on the rocks.

I'm in the 1%.

98cm jew in the middle of the day today, one tailor.

Then had to go to Ballina to bank a cheque,........quick flick at a flathead honeyhole for a 65cm lizard.
Old mate with a quarter pound sinker soaking prawns was shocked. I was there for 5 minutes.

spring Trifecta.

Braining it.

Jew on plastics ?

The 1% funnelling up all the resouces with your greasy, blood-stained hands.

Occupy the stones!

Freeride is going to find Sea Shepherd knocking on his door if he keeps that shit up.

Every fish i catch with my own hands is one less factory farmed animal, one less hectare of land that needs to be cleared for soybeans to feed vegans. One less family needing fossil fuel guzzling trucks on the road transporting food.

Recreational fishing isn't a problem as far as sustainable living goes, it's a solution.

Too true.

Not mentioning that it satisfies primal urges , is great exercise , an excuse to get amongst nature and feel it's rhythms .

The fact of it being a tastey , organic food source is cream on top.

PS Fish that you work for are amazing , but there's something pretty fucking cool about a good fish at a leasurely hour. That blue sky Jew would've put a smile on your face.

Just baiting you Steve.

Fisher of men.

You getting any waves , Stu ?

Only just back in the water after the flu and related complications. Recently took a few days off and stayed down in Kangaroo Valley, a place I'd move to tomorrow if it we closer to the waves. Bunked up in a hut overlooking Barrngarry Mountain with nought but wombats and wallabies for neighbours.

But waves? Surfed a bank that was doing a fair Trestles impersonation. In fact it was better than Trestles because there were bugger all people out. Hard to believe it was over sand. Be back there tomorrow.

You?

So is it too early and too hyperbolic to describe the various governments dismantling of the Australian tertiary education system as treasonous ?

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/sep/19/faustian-bargain-...

Purplepills "No fishery has been decimated by line and reel"

This always causes controversy, but I call bullshit to that statement. I have witnessed it first hand in areas that has NEVER been accessed by commercial fishers and decimated by recreational anglers.

The recreation catch is the biggest unknown in this country and is greatly underestimated, represented by strong lobby groups very vocal about the strength to the economy by recs but greatly down plays catch rates.

Don't get me wrong, I am a big supporter of green zones and marine parks, they are vital to the sustainability of fisheries. But the pressure to fisheries by rec anglers is severely downplayed.

Carry on.................

Surfed a local beachie this morning that was a bit hungover from the overnight Northerly . OK .

Would have been something nice on offer this arvo after the wind swung offshore . Too rooted by then though.

Spring is here hard.

I'd forgotten how windy it can be here at this time.

Fitzy , when I said most anglers are respectful of catch rates I certainly didn't mean all fishermen are cool.

You don't have to hang at a boat ramp in the North West for too long before you'll spy a boat full of clowns on a run up from Perth with every intention of covering the cost of fuel to get there with a freezer full of fillets.

It pays to word them up at every opportunity.

I remember meeting one moron that told me he used to be able to fill his boat to the gunnels with Norwest Snapper back in the day but now the fishing is shithouse.....dumb fuck didn't seem to be able to make the connection between catching all the fish and there being no fish left.

The one room cottage we stay in the Kangaroo Valley bordering the forest has a couple of Lyrebirds living under it. Nothing like the 5am wake up calls from these birds amplified by the cottage and the bank it sits on. No phone, internet, tv.

I also query the innocence of all recreational fishos based on observations at a local boat ramp during snapper season. Bag limits seem to be meaningless.

It was directed at the statement/comment, not anyone in particular.

It's the old story Blowin, the few bad apples fuck it for all. I've seen it with commercial and recco's. If we all did the right thing along the line that Steve vocalised, we wouldn't be in this predicament of rules, laws, regs, etc, but we don't live in a perfect world.

All good.

Recreational fishing effort is down in NSW according to the stats I can find.

Around here it's way, way down because of the Cape Byron marine Park.

Used to be rockfishing was crazy popular, now most of the good spots, and all the safe spots are sanctuary zones, off limits.
The long sandy beaches just don't hold fish like the rocky headlands and corners.

Lennox Point is prime example. Great tailor spot in winter between swells and nighttime jew. It's carved up into so many different zonings.....sanctuary zone, habitat protection , sanctuary zone. It's a confusing nightmare. Too hard basket for most visitors.
Last winter, fishing a new moon, I hooked a big jew that took me right up the point into the sanctuary zone. I lost the fish. Sat their with my head in hands for a minute and then some bloke appeared at my elbow with a torch.
Fisheries officer. $500 fine for severe management infraction.

I wrote letters to the manager explaining the situation. No good. It was go to court or pay the fine. I paid the fine.

Walk down the beach with a fishing rod in Byron Bay and some yoga mum in a range rover will come and write you a ticket.

Fishing tackle shop in Byron: out of business.
Tackle shop in Lennox: out of business.

Thats made it heaps harder, and more dangerous for those who have stayed the course....but with less rec fishing effort and way less inshore commercial fishing effort seems to me that inshore fisheries and inshore biomass are in good shape around here.

Populations of apex predators would support that.

Fcuk I can't recall the last tailor I caught that didn't bear scars from escaping a shark. Most of them are more scar than fillet.

I know that rec boat fishos for certain fisheries are having a big impact Fitzy, if thats what you are talking about......coral trout, snapper etc etc

Not bullshit fitzroy... great banks ect... always netting and trawling. Show me a fishery that has been decimated by line and reel. I call it is your technique they are still there - where are you talking about - i call you out on that statement. No contraversy educate yourself look into, even if i wrong about it who cares.

How many indigenous folks around the world lived sustained for how long...always line, spear and traps for their immediate needs.

Most rec fishos are kooks and dont catch fish are just having a go or taking the kids. It is like worrying it is too crowded to surf in oz...pftttt you can surf every weekday on your own in Sydney.

Caught a jew on soft vibe and a 40cm EP in a 'fishless' spot the other day again it is the smallest thing that makes the difference. Both released. But will take the right fish for the area i am in or immediate needs.

Grubs leave rubbish, don't get me started on abused bag limits, at port stephens every year people from south of the border have been witness taking their bag limit every day of marlin then putting it in a chest freezer - no shit to take the chest freezer back home on a truck towing the boat. A long liner would lay couple of thousand hooks with live bait with GPS trackers and get $2.00 kilo for the marlin because they are everywhere and 'running' many many fish have ended up at the tip. What about the south coast nsw cat food canery no damage done there they are only catching salmon and bait fish - again same decision makers who aint got a clue.
But the fastest growing fish in the ocean has a bag limit of one fish over 110cm.

Ha ha mate had old bush as his GPS navigation in Tassy once he would go 'turn left - wait, no, turn right. And in his texan drawl got old real quick.

Its a cracker.

Spearfishermen can rape an area pretty quickly.

Puplepills
Example 1- My old man taught me to fish from a very young age. In my pre-teens we used to particularly enjoy fishing for blackfish (luderick) at certain times of the year. Low tide, go to the surf rock shelf, collect cabbage weed, cotton weed and cungie. Fish the incoming tide in the lagoon on the knee deep sand bar into the deep channel drop off. During holidays, it would be nothing to see 30-40 people lined up shoulder catching fish. I clearly remember some people would walk off with their keeper bags full of up around 20-30 fish.
Now it doesn’t take a mathematician to work out that this behaviour over years is going to have an effect on that areas fishery. Fast forward to my teenage years and it was gone. Even now 30years later, I go back and talk to family, friends, the local fishing stores and no one can recall anyone catching blackfish out of the lagoon for longer than they can remember. I even took my own kids snorkelling there last xmas when we went home and was blown away at the complete lack of any marine life.
Example 2- I have been living at my current location for over 15 years and holidaying there regularly for 10 years prior to that. 2 local creeks in the nearby national parks were good for mangrove jack and even barramundi. Now, not only is it rare that these are caught here with rod and reel, any that happen to migrate here are picked off by spear fisher grubs that weave and dive through the mangroves and waterways. Fishery gone.
The above 2 examples have never been commercially fished, at the least in the 48 years that I have been alive.
Now I have been a rec, charter and commercial fisherman for the majority of my life. I have caught fish from 1/4lb mullet to 1100lb marlin. I have seen the best and the worst of each pursuit. I personally believe in Marine Parks and Green Zones and have participated in facilitating the closure of some areas, particularly on the GBR.
I regularly go rec fishing with mates that live from SE Qld right to the Kimberley and whilst a majority of them only keep what they need, there are some that will go out and catch their bag limits every time, week after week. Multiply that by all their mates that do similar, and on and on.
Commercial fishing is pretty heavily regulated and recorded catch rates are pretty accurate as any under reporting is only going to affect their quotas and detrimental to their livelihood etc, it is recognised as up there with the best in the world. Charter fishing is similar to a degree.
As stated above, the greatest unknown is the recreational sector. They will carry on about how many millions upon millions of dollars are directed into the economy (which it does) whilst complaining about closures and commercial fishing. But the moment any questions are raised about catch rates………crickets. It is in my opinion the most under estimated, unknown and ignored catch rate in Australia. It has to be considered accurately to establish real pressure on each individual fishery.
A quick search will show how many rec and commercial guys have been caught fishing in zones, exceeding bag and size limits etc around the country this year alone and they are only the ones that get caught. It’s across the board in all sectors and you’ve got your head in the sand if you think this behaviour doesn’t have an impact on stocks.
I was just commenting to your statement, not directed at you personally. This is just some of my experience and opinion. Rant over :)

Also, just to clarify, 90% of my commercial fishing was line fishery, 1 handline, 1 hook, 1 fish at a time.

Remember a fish called orange ruffy? That whole saga? Big bucks. Just in time too! Bad luck for the ruffy. And the too late suckers that bought in big!!! Welcome to the big time!

Wasn't the roughy fishery outside Aus zone in international waters? We have little control, a bit like most pelagic fisheries. Open waters = open slather.

This is a great read :

https://www.amazon.com.au/Down-Sea-Australian-Fishing-Dynasty-ebook/dp/B...

If you ever wondered what was going through the minds of the fishermen that founded , plundered and destroyed the incredible pristine fisheries that existed till they were the man for the hour , then read this.

This book isn't just an accusing finger though , it's a great tale for anyone that's ever felt an affinity for the ocean and a lens to those that made it their lives.

'Wasn't the roughy fishery outside Aus zone in international waters? We have little control, a bit like most pelagic fisheries. Open waters = open slather.'

No. And its the whole story, the whole saga. How, why. The timing. The thinking. The saving grace. The big bucks. And the finale, the big suckers, the losers, including the roughy.

fitz,

I agree with most of your points, but where is this place? Location of (i)lagoon (ii) handline pro fishery and species targeted

A handline can do a good job of decimating fish stocks by the pro sector like spawning aggregating coral trout, they have legislated against this in some states, point me to a fishery that has been decimated by rod and reel.

In the past they are called 'boat fishermen' it is once it is industrialised that the fish stocks take the hammering, and species are taken out of the environment/foodchain altogether all by nets in most cases. (dont get me started on explosives and long lining)

The biggest problem is international waters 200Nm out is a free for all fleets are subsidised by governments world wide and deep slow growing species and any pelagics near any sea mounts are canned.

Nothing personal at all fitz like the debate but we have bigger problems other than rec fishos accessing marine parks like taking bait out of the food chain for bait and catfood and fish farms.

The unknown of rec fishos catch rates is well most people dont catch fish or fish that often compared to the estimate that nets reducing the oceans to 10% of what it was before industry fishing. http://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/oceans/critical-issues-ove...

They are trying to make Sydney Harbour a marine park, this after commercial fishing was banned over 10 years ago-basically they had to or it would have been negligence (poisioning) not for protecting marine life. Now the decision making agenda politicians want a marine park in Sydney Harbour. A local fishing guide paid for scientist to document life due to outrageous claims regarding the sealife in the harbour not being there. They studied under certain wharfs through out the harbour and the findings again are stacked against these agenda politics. (Anyone who fishes the harbour has seen the difference with many species re appearing cobia and blue fin tuna at the spit bridge for example.)

Just look at kingfish or aust salmon when methods are removed from practice by legislation or capitalist profit seeking, the kingfish nearly wiped out by floating traps and well the salmon didnt make it past the south coast cannery now they migrate to QLD fist time in years.

For example 'bycatch' in any pro licence the 500kg bycatch of mulloway for mullet netters times that bycatch of 500kg , which they target, by pro licence and you wouldnt get near what rec fisho's take.

Have the marine park but dont lock out the rec fishos or just lock them out for certain times of the year. If anything other areas get hit harder.

Fitzy, it's the exact opposite for blackfish(luderick) around here.

Used to be heaps of people doing it off rock platforms. Now it's rare to see anyone doing it. Couple of old blokes and thats it.
\

I see huge aggregations of blackfish regularly.

They are not a fish in any trouble of being fished out.

(not having a go mate, I very much respect your pov).

'Purps, back at ya comrade!'

WTF!!! I've had a farking inkling for a while now,one of them AndyM style of inklings! There's only one person with the high tech expertise, the gazillions of bucks of ever expanding equipment, and the infrastructure, and the conniving team to pull that shit off! And dare I mention his name!!! But I knew it!!! Fucking stupe, benny, shats, purp, and more than likely turk are all fucking Gaul!!! He's running the whole fucking stinkin' scam!!! The puppet show!!! Again!!! From the Umina RSL!!! Disguised as a punk DJ!!! What a fucking doozy!!!

Mate, I disagree on allowing rec only in marine parks. For the GBR, the scientific evidence is there. They don't just lock out areas for the hell of it. The marine park reefs are the feeder reefs for the open ones relating to currents. The fish spawn in the marine protected areas and the currents take the eggs/fry to the open reefs, basically restocking. I believe one out, all out, or it doesn't work.
You are underestimating the recreation catch. Open a reef that is closed to commercial and the human mentality is "flock to it, the pros can't access, it must be good". It just puts extra pressure on that reef/area. Technology is now making it so much easier for your average joe. Sounders are basically telling you what species is down there.
Sydney Harbour, to my knowledge has a number of factors which has improved it's health. Commercial fishing mostly removed, massive environmental changes both inside and outside the harbour, etc
My line fishing was coral trout, dory fishing, Far North (Cape Melville and above) and Torres Straight, as both dory fisher and skipper. Not many operators at the time, I believed in "farming" the reefs. ie I never spent more than one day on any one reef and I never visited the same reef within a 2 month period. I would "rest" the reefs, even though I only ever had 4 dory's/doryman. My catch rates for the 10 years I was doing it in that area never changed by more than 3%. When southern boats started moving up into the area, I heard they were sitting on the one reef for a whole week at a time, trip after trip. Pissed me off to think of that kind of mentality. The reason they would move further and further up was because of that mentality and they cleaned their own grounds out. It used to infuriate me. I have heard that the buy back has cleared most of them out of that area and it is recovering well. I understand that the catch rates there on trout have recovered to where it was when I was there.
Narrabeen Lagoon and Eurimbula NP is were I am referring to in Ex 1 & 2 .

Hey FR, agreed I have heard the headlands/rockshelves have improved with drummer & luderick. My example was just what I witnessed in Narra lagoon and I fished for them as a kid so I was part of the problem. I also have no doubt that enviromental factors played a part also. My main point is that we all (recreational, charter, commercial, consumers) play a part in the decimation of fish stocks, not just one sector more than others.

'I have heard that the buy back has cleared most of them out of that area and it is recovering well.'

See, that's it, now you're catching on. How much did they pay for those 'exploratory' licenses? How much did they have to 'work' em. I know the answers. Easy pickings against the small fry. Just some spare chump change. Bit of spending money. But money, and it all counts. And you never know, best to keep the bases loaded.

I live and fish narra lake was closed on and off but is healthy as can be, heaps of whiting, flathead, bream and big jews and EP's even had a long tom in the middle of winter crabs ect. The blackfish aggregate at certain times and as FR said it is becoming a lost art.

And as it lies the headland area is a marine park and you can fish just not take anything else.

But compare Narra being rec fished all the time to dy lagoon and manly lagoons (one of the most polluted bodies of water in OZ) which have no pressure from rec or pro results dont vary- just different species

Herc shats side note call to arms in oct the jungle reinforcements needed dj box head sick of doing 80th's will do it from his tree house

God help them. In and out of the water. Shit, webby should hire stones, as the pool dj/surf coach/chick magnet. What, with slattsey getting replaced by the rock in baywatch 2 (they kept the haircut but) stones will be the final blow, to give webbo the edge!

Thats a good mix. Get him to blast some Leslie West through the jungle vines . Webbo? Slats... bronzed fatties riding again? Karaoke surf challenge. 2.45am on Sunday nights. Replays at 3.00am wednesday nights. Channel 52 .

I call bullshit on the rec industry decimating fish stocks when compared with the pros.

Try catching after the pros have netted the place out, especially that super trawler that sits offshore cleaning its fish we see around SA from time to time.

Herc I reckon Shatner & Turkey are the same person for sure. "Parp!" "Comrade!" etc. Also no way we have two union reps who surf on the same forum. You'd get better odds on the Melbourne cup.

All this IP address stuff is easily faked by using a VPN.

.

Oh Gaz, you crazy conspiracy theorist you!