What's what?

Huh ?

You couldn’t understand why the cash carrot would be dangled in front of a department which didn’t need it.

I explained why.

It also leads into how a public service morphs into public/ private then full private .

I’ve answered your question and I’ve done it in a completely rational manner. It seems that you get frustrated at not being able to have your erroneous opinions respected and you then get personal.

You think a concern for the privatisation of the education system is “ toxic bullshit “ ?

You tried to debate and failed to put forward a convincing argument. Either accept that you are wrong or think of another argument. It’s yourself who has delved into the personal attacks.

"Your main contribution to these forums has been to destroy them as a place for rational debate."

Ouch.

Anyway, B.I, can you please explain what privatisation is for us all again.

We're not getting it. Knowledge shortfalls and all.

One more time.

Cheers, mate.

Yew!

Meanwhile on the real world stage (a fellow Aussie's perspective)...

"Sometimes the things put out by the US State Department feel like they’re conducting experiments on us, just to test the limits of our stupidity."

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/seven-reasons-to-be-highly-skeptical-...

And...

"In today’s information age, the media have an extraordinary power to shape public opinion, and no one is exempt from their influence. The media are a veritable ‘fourth power’ in the state next to the traditional branches of government, controlling not only what is said and shown, but also what is not disseminated and, therefore, is withheld from the public. This enormous power comes with an equally enormous ethical responsibility."

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/this-assange-supporter-excoriating-th...

I've checked out of day to day politics, by any objective measure the LNP should have lost in a landslide, yet, how wrong were Labor in reading the "aspirational" electorate or perhaps more accurately allowing itself to be open to wildly false scare campaigns. It's not going to end well, the country is in recession, wage growth is at historical lows, interest rates are at a point where the cost of borrowing money is almost free, we have a huge deficit and growing and a government driven by ideology and concurrently committed budget surpluses and the biggest tax cuts in Australia's history.

For me it's back to where it started, the government is deliberately working against the best interests of ordinarily people - the government, the Murdoch media and big capital all conspiring to divide and exploit.

.It was the Vietnam War that saw the masses last revolt here, what will it take for the next?

I really cannot believe what I'm reading here. Anyone, anyone at all, that loosely associates themselves with 'the left' of politics should be steadfastly against the marketisation of our primary and secondary school systems. As I said before, it's virtually the only government service left that hasn't (hadn't) been marketised/privatised/bastardised in a race to the bottom, and it should('ve) stay that way. Many of us thought that was an unwritten given, but clearly not for this labor party of oz ...ironically ...again...

"...Average fee paid by international students in Vicco is just over $10K per annum. 500 students would be paying $5M in fees yearly.

To construct a school for 500 students in Melbourne costs upward of $30M for the most basic of schools. This cost does not include the purchase of land which would be closer to $50M.

Then there are the running costs of the school , the interest owed on the borrowed money needed to build the school and the massive infrastructure impost required to look after 500 students , their parents and sibilants who are entitled to migrate and probably will."

Exactly!

The fees barely cover the most incidental of costs. It's absolute pittance when one looks at the whole costs of providing that service, so the economic argument is shaky and negligible at best. But the influence and undermining of a system this process involves is significantly significant, as we have seen with tertiary education, its now a mess, losing credibility by the day

"...Using the Tertiary school system as a guide , there is NO PLAN regarding how many fee paying foreign students can attend the public school system. As many as possible is the answer.

All accounts for requirements and costing of schools that I’ve provided stand . Australia gains nothing from this policy."

"As many as possible" is indeed the answer, as it is now a business, with a heap of leaches advocating it's future, spruiking the dodgy economics to ensure it's growth and their salaries. And you two say MB guys are dodgy dudes for raising it?

laughable

maybe it's actually you that's looking in all the wrong places...

"..So the schools and the government, who you claim are losing money on the deal, "see a carrot of cash dangled before them". Contradictory, confused, illogical? All over 0.5% of the enrollment in Victorian schools? Don't you have something more substantial to concern yourself with?"

It's the thin edge of the wedge, and you know it. Even at this minor percentage it has a huge influence on government policy, schools and teachers, as it's now seen as the only way forward. No matter how small the percentage, childhood education was obsessively protected from these pervasive undermining influences, and it bloody well should be! ...at all costs!!

split hairs all you want re. percentages, privatisation and who actually owns the schools, at the end of the day this IS the neoliberalism of childhood education, and you're defending it

"...I’m not sure how you can defend it , or even why you would feel compelled to defend it ?

Is it pure reaction to anything I suggest ? Automatic opposition ?"

I really don't know how king stooge and 'the teach' can defend it either. One can only hope in any other context or forum they wouldn't be doing so...

If not, it's only their party loyalty that could explain their betrayal of everything they claim to stand for.

Or, alternatively, all bullshit aside, they're both neo-liberal zealots at heart, with their whole anti neoliberalism schtick being an absolute fraud...

and that's that! Case closed.

Interesting read from Noel Pearson:

"Can a cause for the right succeed in the long run if it is pursued through unrighteous means? Can causes for the good be selective in their adherence to science? Or do righteous ends justify unrighteous means?

This is the crisis confronting environmentalism. It suffered a grievous loss at the federal election and the Adani red line is broken. This may be a crisis of legitimacy. The question is whether political environmentalism is turning off voters and hardening attitudes against the necessary effective policies to secure future sustainability. Are the means employed by political environmentalism destroying the possibility of Australia achieving the desired end of sustainability through consensus? Or is consensus unnecessary because the morally right end means the maxim “by any means necessary” applies?

Political environmentalism is undermining the cause of sustainability because short-term expediency and tactical opportunism is trumping long-term strategic consensus-building. Environmentalism has degenerated into the binary of cultural war when it needs to transcend such wars. Its leaders have led the movement into a zero-sum game, where political victory in one battlefield is countered by loss in another.

We should first explain what we mean by causes for the right.

Political parties seeking power in government are not in the business of the right. Electoral politics are by definition ruthless, with few holds barred. Lies, half-truths, fake news, negative advertising and dirt files are part of the repertoire of power in politics. One party’s Mediscare is the other party’s retiree tax.

Former Labor NSW state secretary and federal minister Graham Richardson captured the ethos of politics in his memoir Whatever It Takes. Noble and ignoble things are achieved by marshalling political power.

While causes for power are amoral, there are causes for the right. Civil rights and the anti-apartheid movement are examples. Emancipation and antislavery are even older precedents. Such causes mobilise the political process and power for good ends. Conservation is such a cause. Few would dispute it is a moral duty of humankind regardless of political affiliation and preference.

Causes for the truth must be ethical, otherwise they suffer damage. Moral integrity is the great currency of righteous movements, but the political environmentalists have jeopardised the cause of conservation by allowing it to descend into the hyper-partisan battlefield of culture and politics.

It is exposed to the 51-49 per cent risk. When your party wins 51, then you may win tactical victories, but when it is 49 you have put your cause in peril. This is what has happened to Adani after the election.

I want to allege five profound mistakes the political environmentalists are making in Australia:

First, they are alienating the lower classes in their droves. This is the lesson of the 2019 election. The political environmentalists pushed climate policies that worked for the post-material middle class, but cared less about the economically precarious. More than the costs, it is the movement’s superior cultural attitude that pisses off the lower classes in such a visceral way.

Second, they are alienating indigenous peoples by pushing the costs of conservation on to those who have not created the crisis. Indigenous leaders such as Marcia Langton and Warren Mundine have highlighted the green lockup of indigenous lands from development.

These groups manipulate and exploit divisions within landowner communities. They divide and rule the same as mining companies do, setting up puppets that favour their agenda. We saw this in the campaign against the Kimberley Land Council. We see it in Cape York in relation to Wild Rivers and blanket World Heritage listing proposals.

Traditional owners supported conservation goals and helped create by agreement new national parks and other conservation tenures. But the political environmentalists are never satisfied. They want everything locked up.

They are making enemies of the country’s largest landowners because they use electoral leverage with governments to subjugate land rights. If they are alienating the land rights movement, which is more aligned to conservation than other sectors, what does that say about them?

A third problem is they are at the forefront of deploying so-called “new power” in their public campaigns. Through the diffusion of social media and decentralised campaigning, green groups began to seriously challenge the “old power”. GetUp co-founder Jeremy Heimans and Henry Timms explain this development in their 2018 book New Power.

Breaking the old power monopoly is welcome; however, the dilemmas of social media and its susceptibility to manipulation and its effects on civil society and democratic governance are troubling. Twitter and Facebook have just created online mob behaviour. Hardly platforms for moral causes.

And the political environmentalists have used the new power to promote conservation and climate change action in as cynical a way as the forces against which they are pitted. Getup and Sleeping Giants use the same tools of manipulation as deliberately as Breitbart and Cambridge Analytica.

A fourth problem is the political environmentalists are highly selective in their adherence to science, and in so doing bring science into disrepute in public policy debates. Who really believed the black-throated finch was the environmental issue of Adani? The poor critters were used as a proxy for opposition to coalmining.

Why the charade? The Queensland Labor government should have been honest with the public and said: the policy question we face is whether the Galilee Basin should be opened up to coalmining in the context of its contribution to the crisis of global warming. But because they wanted to walk two sides of the street at once — intimating to greenies they did not support Adani while intimating to regional workers that they supported coalmining — they did not bring the crux policy question to a head and provide their answer to it.

They lacked the courage of their convictions and simply did not have the leadership to untie the Gordian knot that expanded coalmining in the Galilee Basin represents. And now the May 18 loss sees them stampeding over the poor birds and anything else standing in the way of their electoral prospects next year.

The stances environmental groups take in relation to any number of issues — nuclear energy and aquaculture, for example — evince a selective adherence to science.

Does not environmental science tell us about the interconnectivity of the planet, and if nuclear power is used in Europe, Asia and the Americas, and contributes to lower carbon emissions, why is the debate on nuclear power not on the basis of science and the mitigation of risks associated with nuclear energy, instead of a green version of obscurantism?

The proponents of safer nuclear waste disposal in Australia (which included the late Bob Hawke) have got a point that is worth subjecting to science rather than outright prohibition. While the case for domestic nuclear power may not be strong, it is a substantial source of energy throughout the world, and as a uranium producer we are obliged to consider our role in the management of its waste. There are strong geopolitical arguments in favour of Australia assuming this responsibility and mitigating the large risks involved, which we are better placed to carry than most other countries. After all, it is the green­ies who tell us the planet is one and national boundaries are environmentally meaningless.

The fifth and most fundamental problem is the political environmentalists have aligned environmentalism with socialism rather than conservatism. Another way of saying this is they have aligned environmentalism with progressivism rather than conservatism.

There is a fundamental philosophical problem at the heart of contemporary environmentalism. I do not mean in respect of the appreciation of the natural environment. I mean in respect of where our motive must come from in order to conserve the good things we have been bequeathed from our ancestors for the benefit of our future unborn.

This is the motive that is unanswered by the utilitarian calculations of liberals and socialists. Not everything is about price. Conservatives understand that some things are valuable because they are priceless.

English conservative philosopher Roger Scruton’s 2012 book Green Philosophy is the starting point for a new conservative approach to conservation. The approach is old — about stewardship and our responsibility to bequeath to future generations the gifts we received from our ancestors — but its application to the environmental crises facing our homelands, including global warming, is new. The climate obscurantists who are in the same binary as the political environmentalists and who think themselves conservatives should read Scruton. They should be the first to understand the conservation in conservatism but, alas, ­cultural war has caused a degeneration on all sides.

Progressive socialists don’t know what Scruton is referring to: oikophilia, the love of home that speaks to people’s connection with their environment, which animates their responsibilities. Instead, they propose large schemes, imposed from above by state diktat, while doing violence to the most important engine of conservation: the local connection of communities with their environment, and their concern to leave their descendants what their ancestors left for them. Progressives are more concerned with environmental posturing, cutting the correct moral gesture, being seen to be more enlightened and selfless, in contrast to the deplorables and knuckle-draggers.

The green leaders all want to be the next Bob Brown, renowned for their own Franklin Dam or Wet Tropics. They trample over politically weaker communities such as Queensland property owners uncompensated for tree-clearing restrictions that underwrote our Kyoto target in the 2000s. It was John Howard’s federal government and Peter Beattie’s state government that dispossessed these landowners without proper compensation.

Indigenous landowners are another politically weaker community that are ridden roughshod over by political environmentalists.

The folly of all of this is now surely clear. What can be done?

Ever since Richardson alighted on the strategy of garnering the environmental vote, Labor began outsourcing its environmental policy integrity to the political environmentalists. This yielded electoral returns in 1987 and 1990 but ultimately led to Labor bleeding market share to the Greens and being held hostage to political environmentalism. Labor’s environmental credibility came from environmental group endorsements after adopting their policies and acquiescing to their demands.

Rather than undertaking the principal responsibility of government, coming up with policies that balance development with environmental sustainability, it did preference deals with the political environmentalists. Environmental groups became experts at marginal seat politics, turning 2 to 3 per cent of the environment vote to win 51 per cent victories for their pet campaigns.

The hook-up with GetUp is the apotheosis of Labor’s dalliance with political environmentalism. What electorate is not going to be suspicious of the next bunch of out-of-towners hectoring them about how to vote next time? GetUp was Bill Shorten’s long game at mobilising AstroTurf activism and it has all ended in tears.

Labor must define its own environmental credentials in its own right, not as an alliance with the Greens or as the lapdog of a certain environmental milieu. Watching Jackie Trad squirm as Queensland Environment Minister Leeanne Enoch approved the Adani mine this week told the whole sorry story. Labor can no longer walk two sides of the street at once. It worked for Annastacia Palaszczuk in 2017 but not for Shorten in 2019. Voters might be fooled once, but not all the time.

To develop environmental policies free from deal-making with the political environmentalists, Labor must balance human society and environmental sustainability. The last thing the environment portfolio needs is a progressive from an inner-city seat, surrounded by a milieu of political environmentalists. Labor needs to take environment policy back to first principles and get its philosophy right first.

The environment is too important to be left to the political environmentalists.

Noel Pearson is a director of Cape York Partnership and co-chairman of Good to Great Schools Australia.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/the-environment-is-too-importa...

sypkan, no-one has yet provided any evidence of the privatisation of public schools or the slightest evidence of an actual problem. All you have is an hysterical over-reaction to a scare campaign based on notional figures unsupported by anything beyond supposition. If that is your response to a total non-issue, maybe you need to think about building some resilience. Worse things will happen. The election results guaranteed that much.

Indo, Mundine has some fair points as long as you only consider the near past. I learnt about climate change in 1970. Rachel Carson published Silent Spring even earlier. Science has delivered the facts about environmental damage over a long period and those findings, with very few exceptions, have been totally ignored. Indigenous Audtralians should have had a major voice about these issues, but they have never been given it and that is the responsibility of successive governments, not the environmental movement. As for New Power, what did he think should have been done? Ignoring it would have been worse. So yep, a reasonable analysis of some of the problems. Hopefully he will have some solutions next time.

Allied to the power and insidiousness of corporate media propaganda always on display here...

http://www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/2019/907-buried-...

Its neoliberalism at a minimum. the actual system may not yet be privatised but it is certainly being marketised, a government assett, a public assett, being sold off to the highest bidder, globally, the very definition of neo-liberalism if there ever was one...

"...no-one has yet provided any evidence of the privatisation of public schools or the slightest evidence of an actual problem."

You've provided evidence yourself. The fact its currently only a minor incursion doesn't discount the insidiousness of such policy

in any other circumstances a person of your position would not be on board with this foot in the door

"...The election results guaranteed that much."

It's labor that's doing it!

and that IS the problem!!!

what part of that don't you guys understand?

The long term policy is a cap at about 0.5% of the total enrolment. If you think that's a problem you need to consider the possibility that you are suffering from some form of anxiety. If you want something to worry about there are lots of much more concerning issues.

yeh there's anxiety. anxiety that it is thinking and justifications like your's above that has got us to this position

as long as you're getting your yearnings fulfilled I guess...

from indo's article...

"...A fourth problem is the political environmentalists are highly selective in their adherence to science, and in so doing bring science into disrepute in public policy debates. Who really believed the black-throated finch was the environmental issue of Adani? The poor critters were used as a proxy for opposition to coalmining.

Why the charade? The Queensland Labor government should have been honest with the public and said: the policy question we face is whether the Galilee Basin should be opened up to coalmining in the context of its contribution to the crisis of global warming. But because they wanted to walk two sides of the street at once — intimating to greenies they did not support Adani while intimating to regional workers that they supported coalmining — they did not bring the crux policy question to a head and provide their answer to it.

They lacked the courage of their convictions and simply did not have the leadership to untie the Gordian knot that expanded coalmining in the Galilee Basin represents. And now the May 18 loss sees them stampeding over the poor birds and anything else standing in the way of their electoral prospects next year."

no conviction indeed

and faux issue distractions to enable the fence straddling...

the parallels!

Quoting the historical cap as predictive of the future even though the cap has been lifted and school principals are now actively marketing their product abroad is the realm of the denislist.

That is incorrect. The cap is in place as this link I have posted states.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-01/international-student-freeze-in-v...

Forget the split in the Liberal party we've endured since Tones got the arse as leader, how's the split between the Stooges on here?

Sepp's all over the place but shows signs of sophomoric intelligence, sometimes, despite an overdose of US Kool Aid.

B.I. is a transparent bigot who is more full of shit than Malabar. A perspex closeted "the working class can kiss my arse, I've got the foreman's job at last" Hansonite 'battler' and fully paid up member of the 'under educated, over capitalised' 'aspirational' brigade. A dime-a-dozen self-loathing downward-envying 'coward puncher'.

Oh, and a real McCoy One Nation man.

How does that truck with a former Greens voter, Sepp?

As for V.I., well, he's an embarrassment, hey fellow Stooges? No matter how hard you patronise him.

He won the election. Voted One Nation AND thinks ProMo is the bomb.

And owns his opinion.

Reconcile that, comrades.

You're a 'broad church', yeah?

Good luck.

And good night.

You've got a cheek facto,

please explain how it's me that's 'all over the place'?

When its you - king of stooge - that's a cultural marxist socialist hardline marxist progressive union loving open borders neo-liberal ball bruising fence straddler intersectional feminist labor party propoganda merchant who cannot give a solid position on one single topic...

do please explain...

Id have thrown (solely) virtue signalling SJW in there too somewhere, but that'd be over doing it...no matter how true it is...

Hahaha, Sepp. Waaaaaaaay too much Yankee Kool Aid, dude.

Well that's a bit messed up...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/17/minefields-and-ruins-israe...

talk about feeding the beast...

The working class can kiss my arse , I’ve got the foreman’s job at last !

Indeed.

Aspirational , over capitalised and......unemployable.

ALBANESE, Anthony Labor Marrickville (house), NSW investment
ALBANESE, Anthony Labor Dulwich Hill (house), NSW investment
ALBANESE, Anthony Labor Marrickville (house), NSW residential
ALBANESE, Anthony Labor Canberra (unit), ACT residential

Talk about battling !

The modern ALP ....as relevant to the working class as it’s ministers are to actual work......Wouldn’t recognise it if it was jammed sideways up their arseholes.

https://www.betootaadvocate.com/headlines/young-labor-hipster-applies-fo...

Keep calling the actual workers “ Dime a dozen “ and see just how long the ALP can remain in opposition before they are dismantled.

I’m serious. Please , please keep alluding to FIFO workers as unwanted scum . Please keep insulting the crew labouring under the untenable mortgage situation which the political class has enabled the Capital class to inflict. Please keep revealing yourselves for the unrepresentative parasites you are , so that the doubt is completely removed and the decision is made for the workers to never , ever contemplate voting ALP again.

Your mask is slipping. Your hubris is causing your disgust at the working class you consider beneath you to be exposed and you don’t seem to really care anymore.

The ALP has long since wanted anything to do with workers . Why should they ? They’re the smartest people in the room according to themselves. They’re pure political class now. That’s who they are and they’re bored with being tethered to the DEPLORABLE beasts of burden they sadly still need for their voting base.

So please , please keep revealing your true nature so that the workers of Australia will no longer have their ambitions thwarted by your fraudulent claims to be their voice. The globalist ALP can go suck it’s own dick.

How’s that sound , comrade ?

Hahaha. YOU won the election!

YOU should be rejoicing!

Congratulations 'battler'.

Blowindo rules!

How good is Australia?!

No , we didn’t win the election.

Yet again, working class Australians are the ultimate losers when faced with the ALP/ LNP duopoly .

But at least it’s another nail in the ALP coffin . And let’s face it , the ALP will cease to exist in the not too distant future.

The sooner that happens, the sooner Australians will stand a chance.

I saw K Rudd being his usual slappable self on TV the other morning.

He made a point of not knowing , and not caring to know , the name of the CFMMEU .

It’s getting closer. The ALP is jettisoning those bothersome workers , in order to lighten the load , so that they may ascend to the heights they so believe they are entitled.

There , they will consummate their relationship with the Extreme Left Fuctards of the Greens and form the Coalition of the Moral .

AKA the Social Justice Warriors Party.

They will then attempt to unite the nation by reiterating and casting in stone everything which divides us.

And they will then all proceed to Centrelink as they will have become Truly Unemployable.

All except for the battlers like Albo , who will live off the tithes they gleam from the serfs living on their estates.

Wait a minute .....

Albo is ony 56 years old.

He grew up in housing paid for by the taxpayers. Which means he never had a house to inherit.

And he now has four properties in the most expensive real estate market in the world . Average house prices in the area are $1.5M EACH.

Just remember this little tidbit when you’re laying the boot into the regular people who work hard and dream of paying off their mortgages. You know the “under educated and over mortgaged “ aspirationals who make your stomach heave ?

"The One Nation fake working class gronk doth protest too much, methinks."

Big Bill Shakespeare.

Whoops, wrong thread?

Everything wrong with the ALP writ large right there.

A worker claims that the ALP doesn’t represent him ? Just say he’s not a worker.

“ Authentic “ Albo , the leader of the ALP has , quite literally , never worked a day in his life outside of the ALP party cloistered workshop.

The last day I worked was the middle of January in the Pilbara.....43 degrees centigrade. You think I’m fake working class ....what does that say about the entire ALP ?

It’s the entire ALP of recent history who is fake working class.

Bill Shorten . Julia Gillard. Anthony Albanese .Kevin Rudd.

What a dreary litany of soft soled , self interested , career opportunists . None of whom has any real life experience. As close to being working class as the synthetic meat product raised in a Petri dish is to being a slab of rump steak. Is this really the best of the working class ? No. It’s a cosy club for retards who’ve never had to strive a single day in their entire lives. Fresh from university politics then parachuted straight past anyone with genuine credibility or ability into a safe Labor seat due to nothing more than their networking and arse licking .

Yet they are the very people who stab each other in the back to grab the reins of power which is granted by the united weight of the working class.

Mining tax ? Fail

Penalty rates ? Fail

Carbon scheme ? Fail

Stop Adani ? Fail.

Every failure is written off with the plea that it’s necessary to remain in power so that they can create change. But the change never comes.

It’s all just so much collateral damage so that they keep their jobs. They ignore the social contract they have with their voting base in the name of career self preservation.

Those days are done.

ALP should hurry up and die.

Not long now !

Peter Garret being deliberately hobbled so that he didn’t threaten to steal the spotlight of Kevin Rudd was an alarm bell to the people.

The ALP spun that into being due to Garret’s stupidity.

Sound familiar? The exact same process they are justifying their losing the unloseable election.

Standard MO for the Fake Labor Party.

And that’s why the ALP has drifted away from its founding purpose and become the woke , ineffectual shit heap it is.

The politicians don’t understand what it’s like to have their work become insecure through the flooding of the labour force. They have no clue what it’s like to have a full time job casualised because industry has more workers than it requires thus allowing for the wholesale reduction in wages and conditions.

The ALP politicians have security of employment. Even if they are thoroughly rejected by their employers ( the electorate) they just resume duties within the party. They are never exposed to the vagaries of working life.

Anthony Albanese is hailed within the ALP and by the media as someone who’s seen the struggle. As someone in solidarity with the LABOUR that the Australian LABOR Party is supposed to represent.

Anthony Albanese is a multi millionaire through his networking abilities and the benevolence of party patrons. He has zero link to the people who are forced to compete with multitudes of foreigners for houses , jobs and living space.

Anthony Albanese doesn’t know what it’s like to graduate university only to find that his degree is worthless and that degree holders are the true dime a dozen.

None of the ALP do.

Fuck them off. Ring the bell and drop the curtain. They’ve abandoned the people.

They’ve given Adani the green light. All of their highly lauded moral superiority has been exposed as lies. No integrity. As they opposed it on the grounds of being an uncompromising stand against the destruction of the planet , it’s an even bigger fall from grace now they allow it in order to save THEIR jobs , not the jobs of any of the workers.

Fucking disgrace.

Geez blowin you better tone it down a bit, a little too much truth telling there, that doesn't fit with contemporary discourse.

Can't ignore this gem though...

"...They’ve given Adani the green light. All of their highly lauded moral superiority has been exposed as lies. No integrity. As they opposed it on the grounds of being an uncompromising stand against the destruction of the planet , it’s an even bigger fall from grace now they allow it in order to save THEIR jobs , not the jobs of any of the workers.

Fucking disgrace."

greatest moral challenge of our time anyone?

All that moral superiority peddling sure fell in a big big heap...real quick when the chips were down.

Ironically, again, they'll save nothing, jobs, planet, the reef, voters, a tree, because they've shown just how pathetic they are. You've gotta stand for something, but day after day they just show they no longer stand for anything...

too long walkng both sides of the fence on every single issue, except IP of course, where it's all in, even though many minorities don't vote for them anyway, because of labor's obsession with IP....oh the irony....again!

I don't think its overstating it to say this could be the end for the labor party.

In their endeavour to be 'all things to all (wo)men', it's slowly but surely isolating everyone that once voted for them.

And now setka's talking about withdrawing funding for the labor party...

could be the beginning of the end....or a new beginning...

either way, we're fucked for a few election cycles, and it's gonna be scomo and his dysfunctional liberal party all the way...

No way that LNP aren’t getting booted next election if there is a viable alternative ie NOT the ALP.

Look at the Brexit party in the UK. The ground the majors are built on is not as solid as they’d want you to believe.

"Look at the Brexit party in the UK. The ground the majors are built on is not as solid as they’d want you to believe."

absolutely!

'they' laughed at farage's brexit party, saying the brexit protest vote will never transfer to his party

seems 'they' were wrong...

again...

you've really gotta wonder how much is real analysis on their behalf, and how much is wishful thinking

because they keep getting it so wrong...

one could ask the same of the left's party platforms, how much do they believe this tripe they're selling, and how much is orders from the globalist overlords above?

because they keep getting it so wrong...

so so wrong!

The ship is fatally holed but they still think they’ll be delivering us to the woke holy land.

This is where you’ll find them , sandwiched between the Australian Independents and the Australian Motoring Enthusiasts Party.

https://aec.gov.au/Parties_and_Representatives/Party_Registration/Deregi...

Timely read I walked into regarding the Labor party and Setka.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/06/14/setk-j14.html

It’s all there for anyone to see, Westof.

Nice to see it all put together though, cheers mate.

People don’t realise how much of a bullet has been dodged by not having the ALP in power. The LNP are ludicrously bad , but the ALP are wolves in sheep’s clothing and the sooner they are pegged as such is the sooner they can be dismissed and replaced with true worker representation. If they’d been re-elected it would have been a flood of their disingenuous identity politics used to distract and divide working class unity even further, as they convinced the people that the match towards unfettered globalisation and extreme neoliberalism is an unavoidable conclusion and somehow working in their favour .

It’s a shame this thread is relegated to the backblocks , I really enjoy the input of most people. There has been and will be much interesting and valid discussion if the petty personal shit is left behind.

I’m doing my bit.

Yep, Westie, I mostly concur with the article. There's a bit of a rosy picture of John-boy painted there, but if you know, well... that's why McManus is wedged. She knows. It's defo a beat-up over the Batty stuff, so to speak, but if you know the bloke and other stuff absolutely NOT related to the noises going on now, well, it's messy indeed anyway. He is a 'colourful' character, though absolutely committed to his members.

Labor is cooked. There's the election fall-out right there. The electorate has spoken and now they're all over the shop and looking in the wrong direction.

Labor's cooked, we're cooked. That's the grim reality.

If they had got in, they could have been pushed further towards the light. As they should always be when in power. Which post-war ain't very often. They should be the 'established' government we rail and kick against. Get them in and give it to 'em, but from the proletariat side, not the bourgeoisie (as expected, as always). But of course they're not.

This is Australia! Look at the half-digested media fed vomit from the Stooges above. And they're erm, 'politically engaged'! Talk about garbage in, worse garbage out.

So instead we go backwards again. And regression and damage is always hard, if not downright impossible, to 'fix' in this country, let alone offer something new. History tells us that.

Half step forward, 3 steps back.

Yew!

How good is Australia?!

"I’m doing my bit."

Hahahahaha. You sure have been, B.I. For years!

And it boils down to this...

"If they’d run on a reduced immigration platform they’d have a huge majority government."

B.I., I'm sure this isn't news to anyone, even the immigration glommers on here, the ones that have a stronger point of argument gathered round questions of the environment at least, well, stronger entirely relative to you...

because...

your scurrying arguments, your colourful responses, your grand over-arching vision as it were, don't even cut that mild mustard.

All roads lead back to you know where for you, don't they?

Why is this?

Actually, who really gives a shite. YOU won the election!

"There has been and will be much interesting and valid discussion if the petty personal shit is left behind."

Hahahahaha. Stop it!

Mate, your online persona here is a grubby archetype that needs constant skewering. It's a cultural cancer, always lurking, sometimes in remission, but full-blown since the mid 90s and early 2000s. And our body politic has suffered. It is suffering. My optimism is that it's not terminal. Cancer can be beaten!

Then again...

Maybe IT'S TIME!

For euthanasia laws.

Make it legal. Get it over with.

God bless Australia!!!!

"...In an extraordinary television interview on Thursday night, Australian Council of Trade Unions (ACTU) Secretary Sally McManus said she had urged Setka to resign as Victorian state secretary of the Construction Forestry Maritime Mining and Energy Union (CFMMEU). She insisted that he should quit, even though he was “innocent” of making the reported comments.
McManus thus directly contradicted Albanese’s allegation, but still declared that Setka had to go, because of “a whole range of issues” that she did not specify. In other words, Setka’s alleged comments are a flimsy pretext to bring to a head previous plans to oust him as a union boss and Labor factional powerbroker."

Using you know what to oust him.. again...oh the irony...and again. The whole thing stinks of the kavanaugh trial - deemed guilty, no matter what

"..Writing in the Australian Financial Review on Wednesday, Phillip Coorey proclaimed: “In one move on Tuesday, Anthony Albanese asserted his authority over the Labor Party.” Albanese had “signaled a different culture to that under Bill Shorten,” his predecessor, a former union bureaucrat himself, who had relied heavily on the CFMMEU’s factional backing.
On the same day, an editorial in the Murdoch media’s Australian declared: “Anthony Albanese has finally done the right thing. After a build-up of public scorn and disgust, the Opposition Leader will move at the next meeting of the ALP’s national executive to expel militant unionist John Setka.”

Culture indeed. Bill's piss weak union culture was...well, piss weak, and now we have 'genuine' albo riding in to save the culture of the labor party. and now now, it turns out genuine albo's a bit of a joke, a bit of a fraud, a fraud with bad judgement, or at least he has an overlord with bad judgement..

Murdoch saying he's done the right thing. You know when murdoch says that,....you've done the wrong thing.

".. Notably, the same McManus who is demanding Setka’s scalp warned last December’s national Labor Party conference that a looming “tsunami” of working-class discontent would erupt unless a Labor government came to office and pretended to address growing social inequality."

Glad someone was aware of it, fuck that thursday night interview must have been hard for her.

I hope setka fights this to the bitter end and more, not least because the charge is questionable. Despite what the party think, it's not setka that's destroying the party...

and facto, you're a wanker, nothing less, and most certainly nothing more...

Hahahaha, Sepp.

Did I say, "look at the half-digested media fed vomit from the Stooges above. And they're erm, 'politically engaged'! Talk about garbage in, worse garbage out"?

And then you posted THAT!?

You do know that too much Kool Aid causes neurological decline, yes?

you make no sense facto

my 'narrative' is totally different to the accepted media narrative yet you keep blabbing on...

my narrative is close to the world socialist website - which I was totally unaware of, thanks for that one westof - but it was nothng lke the accepted wisdom from your media mates

it's you that spews the ...'half-digested media fed vomit from the Stooges above. '

and the only three stooges here are factobum, talking turkey, and shattered bossom

Wait, I'm confused...so the world socialist website is OK by you and B.I. now??

Ipso facto, more programs and policies conceived and enacted through a 'socialist' prism are what is needed?

And this somehow trucks with the years of shtuff you've been peddling 24/7?!

Trump, Brexit, and One Nation.

FFS.

YOU MAKE NO SENSE.

Logic so twisted, it's broken.

Um, 'National Socialism' don't count!

Don't waste your time facto. They can post as much nonsense as they like down here. No-one is going to see it.

never said socialist website wasn't ok

"Ipso facto, more programs and policies conceived and enacted through a 'socialist' prism are what is needed?"

possibly, call the prism what you want, I don't like the word socialist, but its pretty much what I've been pushing, the labels are so dated they mean little, especially after the sodomisation by the likes of you...

Never advocated for brexit or one nation, ever!

I'd argue I've never advocated trump, just that the alternative is so woefully corrupt and abysmal you may as well vote trump!

you've gotta stop reading what you assume people are saying ie. putting words in people's mouths, and read the words mate. your overzealous endeavour to win the internet stoush makes you look like a fool

you're confused alright, because you've been prodding your balls across the tips of fence palings for way too long, as you straddle the lefty/neo liberal fence... just like labor...

"Don't waste your time facto. They can post as much nonsense as they like down here. No-one is going to see it."

good onya blindboy, keeping ya no platforming idealogue mates happy

"you've gotta stop reading what you assume people are saying ie. putting words in people's mouths, and read the words mate. your overzealous endeavour to win the internet stoush makes you look like a fool"

There it is! We've reached peak "Sam Newman's non-self awareness disorder" AKA anosognosia.

The classic thing is , Sypkan , that it’s Ol’ Constable Laurie from the Thought Police who’s opinion is best kept hidden.

The population knows what’s what .

Despite the constant gaslighting by the MSM and a few throwbacks like the Kneel and Bobbsy twins on here , the majority of Australians know full well that the non-mandated globalist push is overwhelmingly detrimental to our country.

Though it is still funny to hear the brittle old bugger blow his stack when his authoritarian dictating falls in a heap and his fragile opinions are destroyed.

"Though it is still funny to hear the brittle old bugger blow his stack when his authoritarian dictating falls in a heap and his fragile opinions are destroyed."

Destroyed by who? YOU??

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Watch out Gabby, there's a new pro-claimer in town!

By everyone who disputes his fantasies.

You know who they are. Basically everyone except yourself.

The smart people.

Not too hard to refute the ridiculous claims that he makes ie Increased population doesn’t impact the environment, foreign investors don’t inflate house prices, Trump colluded with Russia etc etc.

There’s a litany of bullshit to dismantle for anyone who cares to wade into the morass of his self satisfied delusion.

"There’s a litany of bullshit to dismantle for anyone who cares to wade into the morass of his self satisfied delusion."

"There it is! We've reached peak "Sam Newman's non-self awareness disorder" AKA anosognosia."

Bugger, Sepp! Beaten again! By B.I!

The Stooges are disbanding?

Yew!

Oh , you’d like to argue that massive amounts of extra people won’t impact on the environment as Laurie did ?

Good luck with that.

Yes , he is full of shit.

And if you concur with him , you are also full of shit.