What's what?
If Jesus was a carpenter why didn’t he just denail himself ?
Fascinating discussion, BB is doing very well.
Some random additions: when you look at old testament the story of Noah and the Flood is largely paralleled by the earlier story of Ziusudra in the Sumerian Flood myth, recorded in their writings. Mary and Baby Jesus echoes Innana/Tammuz in Babylonian iconography.
I like how Genesis begins in darkness, then "let there be light", then more darkness, then light returns. The Big Bang suggests that there was initial darkness, then singularity("light") and afterglow, then more darkness, then the light we recognise in the stars. Not bad for goat herders.
And BB, I must challenge your delineation between hunter/gatherer nutrition and farming nutrition: please have a good look at Weston A Price's "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration. A practising dentist, he traveled extensively in the 1920's, performing examination of condition and nutrition of widespread peoples living as hunter/gatherers, farmers, or urban town people. He found without exception that the nutrition of modern commerce leads to dental caries, more narrow faces, more narrow noses, more narrow hips, less bone density. He found that no matter which ethnic group or the way a people got a natural diet (picked up from shells or the butter from domestic cattle for example) - as long as the diet was natural, they grew with strong bones, wide faces, teeth free from caries and a general superior body. He went further and inferred they were morally superior and less prone to crime. He believed the presence of 'fat soluble activators' in sufficient quantities in the natural foods was the difference between a natural diet (farming or hunter/gatherer) and a industrialised diet.
Agree on the effort - hunter/gatherers win there. The more things we own, the more we are owned.
Well it's not really 'his teachings' if he never existed, or 'gods teachings' if he's not the son of God.. So whilst we all need to be particularly vigilant about caring for others as we care for ourselves we don't need any longer to understand or interpret the superfluous garbage in the Bible.
Religion served its purpose if for nothing else than teaching people to be 'good'. And give them an interesting or frightful story and it's all the more powerful. in a civilization of several thousand people you'd think religion was just part of the structure that kept society in tact. It probably did a great job of that. Nowadays we have education for all. So why bother?
Religion is a conduit for the necessary spirituality that is unfortunately missing from the lives of many people.
It’s not all bad.
That's true blowin. I guess my spirituality is through science if I think about it. There is nothing more humbling to me than looking through a large telescope and understanding what your looking at, how your connected to it all, and how important our earth is to us because quite frankly there's no better place within cooe.
BB , I quote a fact , you reply with your Wikpedia , which is easy to see now is your fact based source of information.....do we debate that Wikpedia is an incomplete source , nah lets just check out the following...
"Yeah taking the piss sharkman just like you with your 36,000 papyrus documents!....these are the proof that Jesus Christ existed as a person..
Been reading a lot of your opinions on how and why the historical evidence does not back up Jesus's/Christian claims and their reliability...hmmm you could try reading Josh Mc Dowells , More than a carpenter....where he tries to disprove the Gospels , and becomes a Christian as he gathers all the relevant facts pertaining to the story of Jesus and/or Prof Simon Greenleaf head of Harvard Law School, who put the resurrection of Jesus Christ on trial.....http://vftonline.org/EndTheWall/greenleaf.htm......check out this link interesting to see your opinion?
5. The Gospel writers have a proven track record of historical reliability.
Well no, they have a proven record of inconsistency and contradiction.....which are?
Check out this as a philosophical view......https://justjesus.typepad.com/blog/2009/11/napoleon-bonaparte-and-jesus-...
sharkman I find it pretty strange that you question the accuracy of Wikipedia which is by far the most widely quoted source of online information and even the low end estimate of its accuracy are at 80% while you refer to blogs by people no-one has ever heard of. With the contradictions between the gospels you are much better to do your own reading in that area but, for example, only two mention the virgin birth. More broadly my point is that I can't understand why people who believe want to distort the facts to support their belief. We have seen this over centuries and it is still going on. Believe what you like but do not twist the truth or propagate outright lies.
Meanwhile on Earth...
From an acclaimed veteran journalist who can't get a gig in the corporate media anymore:
http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-war-on-venezuela-is-built-on-lies?fbc...
Yeh facto I got called out for suggesting that it was US bullshit a few weeks ago. One thing is for sure the welfare of the Venezuelan people is not high on the US agenda. Why would the US want to control Venezuela? Oh yeh, I remember now, all that oil just waiting to be turned into US dollars.
"harkman I find it pretty strange that you question the accuracy of Wikipedia which is by far the most widely quoted source of online information and even the low end estimate of its accuracy are at 80% while you refer to blogs by people no-one has ever heard of. With the contradictions between the gospels you are much better to do your own reading in that area but, for example, only two mention the virgin birth. More broadly my point is that I can't understand why people who believe want to distort the facts to support their belief. We have seen this over centuries and it is still going on. Believe what you like but do not twist the truth or propagate outright lies.
ahh BB.....so good to see you think 80% wikpedia is enough to call me a liar haha..and not sure if you understand who Simon Greenleaf was , no comment on one of mankinds finest legal minds who actually headed Harvards law dept...you offer nothing but wikpedia , I offered you clinical proof , but you too blind to see or read?
You said contradictions so I asked what they were ...you cannot answer....I have read and studied the Gospels, and done my homework on the accuracy of the Bible , which there are numerous scholars a lot smarter than you or I, who have turned from being non-believers to Christians....so tis not I twisting the truth or propagating lies...take a good hard look at your self and where we started where ........your intellect and ego seem to not like being questioned and countered.....the old adage of "ignorance is bliss" seems to be part of your MO....
blowin..."Religion is a conduit for the necessary spirituality that is unfortunately missing from the lives of many people.
It’s not all bad.
interesting is Spirituality scientific or supernatural?
Well my religion is Stuish.
It's a simple creed. Only got one adherent - me.
Though that may change once I get tax-free status.
Sign me up Stu. it worked for Scientology!
So you really want to go on with this sharkman? OK
Let’s look at your claims.
“ ……the most documented Man in History, 3 years of preaching , 36,000 paprys manuscripts..in 5 languages…”
So where are these 36,000 papyrus manuscripts? The Dead Sea Scrolls and related materials would seem to be what you are thinking of yet they refer almost enirely to Old Testament material, the Essenes and yeh a few quite cryptic references to someone who could be Jesus but also could be quite a few other people.
So ignorance or a lie?
“I could send you a dozen links including the Romans Egyptians Greek Aramaic……”.
Please do because nothing you have linked to so far is anything but personal opinion.
“hey BB Wikpedia , are you serious or taking the piss LOL?”
So what would you prefer? Brittanica? I am just really fucking over people who claim authoritative sources are bullshit just because they say so. It is a truly pathetic tactic made worse by their refusal to nominate any reliable sources in their place. So come on mate, What have you got? Blogs by “famous” people no-one else has ever heard of?
“BB , I quote a fact “
Remind me, I just can’t locate one in your posts at the moment
“You said contradictions so I asked what they were ...you cannot answer”
Well I can but since you refuse to accept my sources it would be a waste of time, and oh yeh I did give you one pretty solid example which you haven’t addressed so why not type something like “contradictions in the gospels” into Google and see what comes up…….
Religion started by some crazy dudes hundreds to thousands of years ago= A proper religion
Religion started by some crazy dudes today=A Cult
Go figure.
On this topic I seperate religious teachings from religious institutions.
An individual may follow the teachings of his or her religion, whatever it is, and in doing so become a better person and that is a good thing. While I do not believe in an external God I want to respect people who are genuine in their observance. In my mind religious belief or spirituality ought to be deeply personal quiet and calming.
From what I understand all biblical religions and many Eastern philosophies share core tenents pointing to how a person may find purpose and peace in the word. So those teachings are also worthy of respect.
BUT, in my opinion religious institutions are about power and control. They are also highly political and therefore corrupt(able). The way they set about controlling their believers can be questioned and bears little resemblance to the core tenets they are meant to follow. I am sure for all of us there are plenty of examples of how religions have got it wrong so I needn't repeat them here. I am also strongly opposed to the work of missionaries in their quest to convert non-believers to the "real or right" God.
My deceased father-in-law used to say 3/4s of the world's problems are caused by religion and I have no reason to disagree with his view.
Blindboy 23/02/2019 -
"I am just really fucking over people who claim authoritative sources are bullshit just because they say so. It is a truly pathetic tactic..."
Blindboy 18/12/2018 -
"An appeal to authority, as you have done here, generally weakens rather than strengthens an argument.
Hey BB, did I ever mention your occasional hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness? ;)
Andy isn't there a context problem there?
I suppose - especially when BB is claiming that Wikipedia is authoritative.
Is that what you mean?
{Just inserting parentheses for mainly Blowin's enjoyment:
https://themindunleashed.com/2019/02/burning-man-billionaire-camp-instag...
I think this thread was the Fyre Festival one: the hilarity continues...}
Nice VJ.
Science is reactionary. It’s got its place formalising and compartmentalising nature and the world in order to learn the HOW but it will never and can never account for the WHY . This is the realm of spirituality. Science’s methodological definitiveness is both its strength and it’s weakness .
There is no such thing as the supernatural. There is only the nature that we are consciously aware of and the nature we can’t currently account. But it’s all natural baby !
PS - VJ ....releasing the grey water on the plebs...classic.
I think one of the many challenges the West is faced with at the moment is to not necessarily reject the "how" when one is confused about the "why".
From my point of view, science is about excellence in knowledge, and excellence is actually a form of protest.
So I see this current trend of the rejection of science in some cohorts as a sign of lazy thinking and as a rejection of excellence.
No Andy, not that I recall. Did I ever mention your lack of comprehension? An appeal to authority implies that the credibility of a statement is based on the status of the person saying it rather than analysis of its content. I suppose if you don't stop to think about it you could confuse it with quoting an authoritative source which is referring to a publication that has an established record for accuracy. Have you got it now or should I stick to words of one syllable?
A scientist does ask 'why'. Every single time he/she observes something in nature. 'why is this so'. And indeed 'how' can I make sense of it.
The irony is the religion never asks why. Well it did initially, then it wrote the Bible and never asked 'why' again.
BB if you think that Wikipedia is an authoritative source, I can't help you.
Despite disagreeing strongly with Sharkman's statement that Jesus is the world's most documented person, I'm not surprised he laughed at you.
People, as highly conscious beings, find spirituality in different ways.
Jeff Forshaw: “I am struck by the astonishing beauty of the central equations in physics, which seem to reveal something remarkable about our universe… the natural world operates according to some beautiful rules… We are discovering something at the heart of things… It feels like a personal thing – like we are relating to something very special”.
GS "On this topic I separate religious teachings from religious institutions."
This goes to the heart of the matter as far as the mess that evolves from religious doctrine run by anyone that justifies pretty much any ends they want.
But as the saying goes (Marx) "religion is the opium of the people"
Nice one Happy.
OK Andy, name what you would regard as an authoritative general source? The famous Nature study in 2005 found little difference between Britannica and Wikipedia in the accuracy of their science articles and since then Wikipedia has worked hard to improve further. As it stands Wikipedia, in my experience, is likely to be accurate in areas in which there is substantial interest. Its structure suggests that this would be the case as articles that are referred to frequently are also likely to be reviewed by more frequently. Once you venture into obscure material then you will probably encounter more inaccuracies. Most of the negative comments about Wikipedia are just assertions. If it is as bad as you say let's see the examples. If you can find some current howlers in areas of general interest I will gladly change my views until then maybe I will just cross-reference everything with Britannica or other sources just to stop the sanctimonious whingeing from various commentators here who couldn't recognise an authoritative source if they were slapped around the head with the 20 volume edition.
Hahaha!
Bless you Blindboy!
"As probability groans and echoes
About the shadowing confines of space and time
Far Beyond
Toward the fields of golden light
The awareness which knew itself as Huey
Felt waves of an elemental freedom
Spread as a divine smile
Across the oceans of a far far greater destiny
And Huey heard the knowledge borne
On the glistening towering summits and peaks
And a voice spoke within the energy of the waves
"He that is able to receive it ;
Let him receive it "
And Huey looked back
Towards the earth and it's oceans
Which were so much part of him ....."
www.mountainman.com.au/surfi_06.htm
Hughie! Huey was a fucking duck...... some disagree but the traditional god of weather, including surf is HUGHIE!
https://www.macquariedictionary.com.au/blog/article/89/
So come on! Who's going to be the first to call the Macquarie unreliable? Form a queue over there. Blowin you get to the bloody back and stop pushing in!
I wouldn't say that Nature is particularly reputable...
Now you're just winding me up!
Fuck man, it's 10-12 foot with 40 knot side shores, I gotta do something!
2ft windchop here with a brisk 20 knot onshore!
haha , Hughie / Huey,, who gives a fuck?, it was quoted from the seventies . I think you missed my point , but anyway, you are correct BB
From your link " Perhaps the joke lies in the great familiarity in the form of address - addressing the god by his first name - Steve , Jimmy ,Davey and finally Hughie'
No joke tb, Hughie is the nature "god" and nature worship is the only true religion so I think of it as a recognition of that reality within the cultural perversions that surround us. Think of Hughie as the cosmos, like it or not we are all part of the church of the holy rolling heavens above us. Most of our problems arise when we forget that.
Well said.
"nature worship is the only true religion"
Can't argue with that.
Surf God Huey (Part 1)"Unearthing our Surf God".
1853 The Archers began naming Qld Lofty Ranges after Nordic Gods
1855 Colin Archer models off indigenous canoe design to 1st sail up Fitzroy River.
1888 Send 'er down Huie (Cloud seeding a Surf God)
Narrandera farmer Huie fires off cannons of shot to stir the Rain God.
1890's Skylarker In'Clement Wragge wired Uk/Pacific/Oz peaks for meteoric rise.
Released Weather Almanacs/Sth Hemisphere Gazettes/Romance of the South Seas
He too fired Vortex Cannons to summons the Rain God.
Wragge was that weirdo who named Cyclones after Polynesian Goddesses & such.
Seafarers first cursed the Skies 'Damn you Wragge!'
(This being a precursor Wragges' Huey)
Recall Huie of Rain God fame. Well his son was a pioneering swim champ/basher.
Wragge himself pioneered a canoe club (1887)
By now both rain God Vortexers had seeded Huey from Sky to pioneer Surf/craft.
Now the God seed needed reawakening from (Olde World) North to South Seas
This requires DNA transference of epic scale by Seafaring Wizardry. Not Possible?
Only Pole to Pole Magnetic transfer could awaken a Surf God. Again not Possible?
1893 Archer's magic ship (Remember him) 'The Fram' crossed the Arctic Circle.
Fram retains Arctic DNA(Surfs all seas)1911 Fram Nth Pole~Sth Pole DNA swap.
Fram is a Bio Lab of the Poles +7 seas+Fram the mother of all Sail/Rescue/Surfcraft
1911 Wragge's towers transmit Meteorological data & The Meteorite is unearthed.
1913 Wragg unearths Giant Lemurians in Pacific & returns to Qld with DNA code.
1913 Transferred to South Pole via Mr Huie a Meteorologist from Riverena .
1913 Resulting geomagnetic fields charge up 1st seen Aurora to power a Surf God.
The 1st OZ surfboard Riders summoned new Surf God Huey to send for the Duke.
1915 The Duke Kahanamoku arrives Downunder to hoot Huey...(We Live).
Send reply mail c/o Huey @ Huey Creek. South Pole (Usually roaming the Pacific)
In order for truebluebasher to avoid unspeakable horrible death.
The legend of Huey our Surf God was chalmed by....burlybodybash'nbunyip
Surf God Huey (Part 2) Sacrifices & Special Powers
{Sacrifices} (Used to summon Huey for waves)
Spilt Milk
Surprise Peas
Sat Night' Rum & Coke
Shot of fine Whiskey
Surfboards (Sorry! Huey don't want your crap ones)
Only Virgin Surfboards on the fire thanx champ....
(Not Virgin's Surfboards)...You idiot skeg!
Tree Mobile...(Used as a last resort)
Zinc War Paint
Line up of Boards (Use your imagination)
Your most prized Surf Magazine (Hell No!)
{Powers} Used to throw Surfers off Huey's Trail
Huey always makes the surf better between the Flags (Always!)
(How to make the moon rise)...Quote this: ("Just gonna get one last wave in!")
Be sure to request tomorrow's waves for Today...(Should've been here yesterday!)
No mate! Huey can't actually force your beach babe to mind your towel. WTF
Huey invented A frames so you can take the blame for going the wrong way.
Huey's Wave of the Day rolls on by untouched by whole lineup ~~~~~/(C.........*
Sorry Huey! We were only having a laugh...
They Traded the truth of God for a lie, They worshipped and cared for what God made instead of worshipping the God who made it. He is the one to receive honour and thanks forever. Let it be so …(Romans 1 : 25 New Living Version)
And PM ProMo is our new 'main man' and you're down with it?!
Someone please change the topic Blowin and Blindboy agreeing on something is weird and almost creepy.
Ha ha, we agree about quite a lot ....... but choose to avoid those issues.
Optimist we were here before Jesus, we were here before Abraham and Moses and we will be here long after they are forgotten. We cannot be eradicated because we spring up constantly. It is the natural response to the wonders of the real. All the rest is made up bullshit designed not to liberate, but always to control.
"No joke tb, Hughie is the nature "god" and nature worship is the only true religion so I think of it as a recognition of that reality within the cultural perversions that surround us. Think of Hughie as the cosmos, like it or not we are all part of the church of the holy rolling heavens above us. Most of our problems arise when we forget that."
Total agreement here.
Surprised no one has added this yet:
"Nature = God"
-Tom Blake
well put bb.
I tried calling Hughie on the big white telephone this morning , but I think He is busy at the moment.
AN ALL-ENCOMPASSING KALEIDOSCOPIC JOIN-THE-DOTS/ADULT COLOURING BOOK EXPERIMENTAL PROJECT IN NARCISSISTIC/ONANISTIC BIG PICTURE PARASITIC FORUM BLEEDING.
LIKE POLITICAL LIFE, PARTICIPATION IS WELCOME, ENCOURAGED EVEN, BUT NOT NECESSARY.