What's what?

Yeh he is Stu, they're out there ...... in both senses. Personally I find it really frightening that such profound ignorance and detachment from reality exists. There is so much toxic bullshit being pumped out that the poorly educated and religiously indoctrinated end up in a bubble where there is no rational analysis, no connection to reality, just ever deepening cesspools of division, hatred and delusion.

From yesteryear:

"You're a religious man, are you not, Optimist?

And an optimist too going by your moniker I take it?

"You should never talk about religion and politics". A hoary old chestnut.

BUT...maybe applicable if the view is that the two are interchangeable (as seen through the 'blind faith' prism)?

Personally I try to never discuss religion - especially with a person of faith - if I can avoid it. You can't debate with faith. Well, you can, but it's kind of pointless, and time is precious. Moreso, these days.

Politics is a different kettle of lime-scale though. Most times."

That's difficult on a political forum Facto as the two are intertwined. As for Blindboy who proclaims his higher education and deep wisdom but announced the other day he has never read the bible in which the New Testament became so important our whole free civilization was founded on it and even if you are a God hater, the biggest selling book on earth especially the New Testament, is worth a read for its historical value and to decide if Jesus really is God visiting as a man or not.

You wanted diversity, you got diversity !

Seems Nauru has the right to block any medical (cough cough) evacuations.

https://www.news.com.au/video/id-5348771529001-6004294581001/nauru-has-a...

Interesting bit on the end of this video regarding those that arrive by plane and apply for asylum 95% rejection rate last year. (didn't realise it was that high)

Optimist, you should read more closely. I said I had never STUDIED the bible. I am actually quite familiar with the New Testament.

If you look at politics through the same prism of faith and belief that you look at the religion and god of your choosing, well...there's not much to talk about really. Rational political discourse relies on evidence-based thinking at the very least, not faith and belief.

"There is nothing inevitable about any of the developments that are reshaping the international [political] order. They are not laws of nature...but the results of decisions, which can be changed, made within human institutions that can be replaced by others that are more free and more just, as has often happened in the past."

"...but announced the other day he has never read the bible in which the New Testament became so important our whole free civilization was founded on.."

I've never read any of them either.

Go on, call me a deplorable.

Its actually a book of books. 39 books in the old testament and 27 in the new. With lots of authors like Moses, King David, King Solomon, to name a few then the New testament accounts of what Jesus did and said by St Paul, Peter the fisherman and my favorite writer John, its an awesome read....well worth it.
PS I recommend the King James or the more modern New King James version as I've studied several translations and checked them against the original Hebrew and Greek. They are all good but those are best.

Talking of books, maybe we should throw the lot at Ca$h?

The Federal Police requested a sworn witness statement from her and she sent them her unsworn parliamentary transcript. This from a solicitor! Evasive, unreliable and designed to prevent any prosecution ....... and she is still a Minister. But that's the COALition for you, good at telling others how to behave but not so good at playing by the rules themselves. Three in a week! Liitlefoot telling people to buy from Woolworths while he owned shares in it, Cash's devious nonsense and Cormann's little HelloWorld adventure. Responsible government? Not from this lot, as incompetent as they are devious.

Don't forget Smokin' Joe Hockey the Leaner's role in these HelloWorld escapades.

And stay tuned, there's more to come!

Michaelia Cash's vocational-skills clocked up $300,000 on a (000 freecall)

Mathias Cormann forks out $300m for Helloworld's free medivac flights.
Finance Minister Cormann claims he doesn't manage his own 'finances'.
[Warning to Oz traders]Finance Minister's credit card doesn't work either.
Is it too much to expect that the T 800 could operate an ATM. (Fuck me!)

Still plenty of time for a few more rats to desert the sinking ship!

@Optimist. You are deluded.

Yes Matt, I've been called that most of my life but I have to share what I believe is the truth. It is written in the scriptures "It is appointed for a man to die once and then the judgement". Regarding political forums, they are tied to religion as it shapes the world view whether we like it or not. Many people feel the spirit world in their gut but are unsure of its true makeup. This leads many to fake religions and false paths with some even being violent in nature to push their beliefs. Your faith should be shared and even argued peacefully which is very healthy. I've had some great discussions with Muslim leaders in Indonesia and have also taught in China where the Bibles I smuggled in were so gratefully received by the people who got them. To learn we are created beings with a God who loves us and sent his own son (His person in visible form) to save us from ourselves is pretty impressive. Faith soon turns to fact, when He sees our interest and starts a personal contact with us that cannot be ignored nor denied.

I don't think you're deluded. Intolerance is your problem.

You're intolerant of other people's beliefs.

Your truth is your truth, but it's not universal, and it's certainly not mine. Religion plays no part in shaping my world.

Fun is only just starting. Wait till we see what happens to wages when hundreds of thousands more people from cultures accustomed to exploitive work environments and who are ready to outcompete each other on lower pay rates in order to secure their visas and permanent residency are injected annually into a economy getting weaker by the day.

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/02/why-aussie-wages-are-the-weakes...

“Labor be warned. If it does not get over itself and cut immigration when it takes power then the endless income recession will kill its government in record time as sure as the Sun rises in the east.”

Oi Sypkan, you out there? Remember your old 'broken (bad) record syndrome'?

Right enough, it WAS contagious.

Jeezus wept...

"Faith soon turns to fact, when He sees our interest and starts a personal contact with us that cannot be ignored nor denied."

Faith becomes fact. Interesting political concept! Is it ProMo's shtick?

Actually, wanna give your bonce a work-out, people?

Bad faith.

Check it:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hide-and-seek/201203/jean-paul-s...

Hotline To Jesus

He said I got a hotline to Jesus going ‘round in my head

He said I got a hotline to Jesus going ‘round in my head

I said don’t you know my friend he’s been a long time dead

All those words going ‘round in your brain

All those words going ‘round in your brain

Listen to them and they’ll drive you insane

That’s not Jesus talkin’ in your head

That’s not Jesus talkin’ in your head

Don’t let yourself be so misled

He said I got a hotline to Jesus going ‘round in my head

He said I got a hotline to Jesus going ‘round in my head

I said don’t you know my friend he’s been a long time dead

Stu..."I've never read any of them either. " , which makes it hard for you to comment from a pure ignorance point of view...one could call that a fact!

No it doesn't!

Here's Optimist's assessment of life under a Labor government:

"Also remember that your children and grandchildren's new federal education ministers name will be Jihad...Yep that's right , his parents named him after the "Struggle" for world Islamic community dominance or the "Ummah". "

Tell me why I need to read the New Testament to comment on that unfounded piece of hysteria?

Factom , faith is a very interesting subject as we all have some kind of faith in out lives or we wouldn't be here .
some choose religion , some believe/faith in history , some have ffaith in the inherent goodness of man....some even have faith in Trumpy....so really faith is part of man's make up , what 's your poison or faith?

Anyway, back in the real world...

Seen this?

Worth it.

Gotta love the m.o.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/20/historian-who-confronted...

"Oi Sypkan, you out there? Remember your old 'broken (bad) record syndrome'?

Right enough, it WAS contagious.

Jeezus wept..."

Gotta be honest I was thinking a bit the same. And while I'm at it, I've stopped reading them. But that doesn't mean they're wrong. They're pretty bloody convincing actually.

Couldn't be confirmation bias again surely...

But yeh, blowin could mix up the links a bit, surely there's more than one group of nutty dissident economists

"Factom , faith is a very interesting subject as we all have some kind of faith in out lives or we wouldn't be here .
some choose religion , some believe/faith in history , some have ffaith in the inherent goodness of man....some even have faith in Trumpy....so really faith is part of man's make up , what 's your poison or faith?"

Facto doesn't want to go there. It would mean him facing his own confirmation bias.

Faith? Nah, look at the evidence. And yes that means trusting some sources ....... those that have a long record of getting it right. Faith is too often a way of pretending there are simple answers to complex questions .... which is an effective way of maintaining ignorance. Christianity has a particularly bad record in this area. "Earth gies around the Sun?" Heretic, burn him at the stake. "Earth 3500 years old?" Whoops out by a factor of a million! "Evolution by natural selection?" Still fighting that one a hundred and fifty years later. Faith? Just gets in the way of seeing reality.

I agree with all of the above blindboy

But you've still gotta believe in something. You clearly do

You make it sound like you have to believe in something supernatural.

Why do you?

I've spent a lot of time thinking about, studied it even, probably spent more time than most people occupied by the process, I've challenged my beliefs and thrown them under the microscope, but even after all of that I don't believe in anything supernatural. And I take umbrage at anyone who thinks that is an intellectual deficiency or in any way a shortcoming on my behalf.

I don't take real umbrage, I just like using the word.

I believe in coyotes and time as an abstract

"Factom , faith is a very interesting subject as we all have some kind of faith in out lives or we wouldn't be here ."

Interesting comment, Sharkman. Dare I say existential?

"We wouldn't be here."

What do you mean?

Not necessarily supernatural

Maybe just natural, or nature, or science. God, gods, anarchy, whatever's your thing

Or political philosophy, blindboy certainly believes in his, as do you stunet. Me too, a bit...

Boris yeltsin was once asked if he believed in god, he said "I believe in the universe".

Me too, a lot..

and anyone can deny it all they want, but not matter how arelgious you may be, we are all greatly influenced by our largely Christian heritage

I normally refrain from commenting on these kinds of topics, for fear of getting my head bitten off. Nonetheless...

The word faith can cause a bit of confusion, since it seems to be used slightly differently in the christian and secular worlds. The way many christians understand and use the word (certainly those of "reformed" theology), one's faith is the position that one thinks best explains the available evidence. Quite different to the trope of "blind faith". That's not to say that most christians think that their world view is the only viable explanation of things (though most would of course hold that it is the correct one and try and convince others that it is so, given what is at stake if they are correct).

House of Reps worth a watch now.

And Sypkan I don't get your confirmation bias bit.

I think that people can, and want to, do good things, not out of self-interest, but in empathy with their fellow humans, and given the opportunity would rather do good things than bad.

Anyone not concur with this?

"In our society, which has unparalled resources and advantages, there is a scandalous failure to meet elementary human needs. Beyond that, we tolerate modes of heirarchy and oppression, based on race, sex, the wage system that compels people to rent themselves to the owners of the economy to survive, and other conditions that should be intolerable to a free and humane person. What can people do about this?

EVERYTHING.

None of these things result from immutable physical laws of nature. They are all results of human decisions in human institutions. The decisions and the institutions can be modified, perhaps extensively, if enough people commit themselves with courage and honesty to the search for justice and freedom."

And I'd add that if people are given the opportunity to see clearly.

Human decisions are made within human institutions. Alternatives exist and can be pursued. Power and its agents can't keep people in the dark forever is my thinking. Paradoxically turn the power down, see the light!

"House of Reps worth a watch now."

ABC cut off Jim Chalmers again (like yesterday). And returns with Julie Bishop!?

Julie Bishop will not stand at the next election

I think most religions developed out of a way to understand things in the world that couldn't be explained at the time.

In a sense i think the new religion for the modern world is science.

I guess it's the new religion without an afterlife.

Bishop to her core. Bash the opposition even in her valedictory.

Good riddance.

Stu , I wouldn't call that hysteria...incomprehensible perhaps , my comment was more aimed at your comment
"I don't think you're deluded. Intolerance is your problem.You're intolerant of other people's beliefs.
Your truth is your truth, but it's not universal, and it's certainly not mine. Religion plays no part in shaping my world."
religion plays no part is shaping your world , when the whole western system is based on a christian history , and still controls our lives?
If you haven't studied the Bible or the credibility of of Jesus as a real person very hard to make comment on christians or religion?

BB,"Faith? Nah, look at the evidence. And yes that means trusting some sources ....... those that have a long record of getting it right. Faith is too often a way of pretending there are simple answers to complex questions .... which is an effective way of maintaining ignorance. Christianity has a particularly bad record in this area. "Earth gies around the Sun?" Heretic, burn him at the stake. "Earth 3500 years old?" Whoops out by a factor of a million! "Evolution by natural selection?" Still fighting that one a hundred and fifty years later. Faith? Just gets in the way of seeing reality."

by saying,"Faith? Nah, look at the evidence. And yes that means trusting some sources ...." you have faith or trust the evidence from some sources.....I call that faith?

Sadly true about Christianity's influence sharkman. It was wrong from the start!

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

In other words, the Hebrew tradition from which Christianity arose granted humans, godlike status and gave them control of the planet (and isn't that turning out well?). This was in total contrast to the religious views of virtually every other group on the planet, who recognised the primal importance of nature.

BB , no sense trying to troll ...I just pointed out that we all have faith, where you trust some other sources, but don't have faith.

Hey Sharkman, how does religious faith work in politics again?

Anyhow...

Meanwhile in Australia...

Hello Joe, whaddya know?

"In Australia there is a great saying: mates look after mates..." - Joe's mate, Tones Abbott.

"Australia is now open for business." - Tones again.

http://www.theshovel.com.au/2019/02/21/liberal-party-asked-to-spread-sca...

Not a troll sharkman, just a fundamental truth and a major reason why we should be listening to first people around the world.

Of course. Their religions are so much more realistic.

That’s how we know for a fact that a giant multi coloured snake made all the rivers.

Admire and learn from First Nations people’s knowledge of the environment, but treat their religions with the skepticism you’d apply to any spiritual group think.

First nation people in most places of the world religions are the least believable, but they are among the coolest and most interesting.

The Abrahamic religions are possibly the most believable but all pretty shitty.

Buddhism and Hinduism have the coolest temples and statues and art works etc.

And scientology is where the money is at.

The earth is very old and this current civilisation we live in according to all the world population calculations is at most 10,000 BC. The algorithms that they use to project population growth also work backwards and 12,000 years ago there was nobody here. I think we are even younger. This would explain why Australia didn't look like Mumbai at peak hour when captain cook landed. These calculations were first done manually but now by computer. The interesting thing is they are almost identical...nobody here around 10,000 years ago. The stats are from the US Census and The UN population division, as well as Livi Bacci 2001, Trager 1994, Galant 1990, Etc Etc right back to the League of nations before 1949. All agree with each other and did forecast the exact population we have now. This throws a spanner in the carbon dating science. Did you ever think that maybe the carbon daters are wrong? Anyway Its all a long time ago, and I think if God is God he can create a world pretty fast if he wants to, but I bet He thought about it and planned it to perfection over a Billion years beforehand.

You reckon God needs to figure stuff out beforehand ?

He can’t just conjure it perfectly on impulse ?