AFL racism

Hey Udo, just take a break mate, no need to fully bail, a rest can be good. As others have commented above, it would be sad to see you go.
Better still have a really good surf.

Respectful apology from you Brutus.

I get the feeling we all know more about Brutus's life & some of his "dirty laundry" because he has been willing to talk about it, also being a public figure ,so to speak. Wonder how many of us would be willing to divulge our detailed lives or have them probed in these forums without anonymity.

Credit where credit is due........

It's been a pretty rugged, but mostly respectful debate here. Credit to everyone involved, it's a big issue with big emotions. It could have got out of hand so easily, so often.
Hopefully Udo will accept the apology in the spirit in which it was offered and respond in kind.

Good to see this resolved, great contributers both Udo and Brutus.

I bought up caste not to point the finger but to point out the connotations of the word, language is important and the issues that were bought up discussing the use of caste and questioning peoples aboriginality are worth noting as inappropriate because of their racist roots.

The fact that the word is used by journos perhaps reflects the general lack of appreciation of racism issues?

I just go around to reading the article posted by Stu earlier

Read this article ID: http://www.businessinsider.com.au/an-american-expat-explains-the-adam-go...

everyone that hasn't should read this

tim foilat wrote:

'a player gets called an ape.....by a 13 yr old girl, youre fucking joking, an ape -what the fuck is this sook player going on about.'

Oh the irony.

I'm not saying it's easy stunet, but you guys are the one's that thought you could have a surfers forum with minimal censorship or moderation.

the term 'herding cats' springs to mind

personally i like to see a free for all, because I'm morally opposed to censorship, but mainly because it's annoying when you're following a little tussle then stuff starts disappearing. a bit like starting a good book with no cover then someone takes it away.

i think you guys generally do a good job, but you seem a little trigger happy of late, mainly because threads have gotten way dirtier in the past.

some people's ego's on here do need a little chacking. I see it like a woman making a living from her looks, yeh enjoy the praise, wealth and adulation, but don't cry when a trash mag points out your cellulite. the crowd normally sorts itself out on here when people are getting a bit uppity.

you don't need ro cater for me though, I'm surprised the freeish for all lasted as long as it did. i enjoy the blood sport that is the internet, its interesting for me how low it can go, but that's only because i dont take it seriously. i have nothing but disdain for the internet. but hey i can appreciate its different when your career and life is focussed around it

Shatner'sBassoon wrote:

Krist on a stick, we're now on this?? Racial classifications used and defined in law (in the 'bad old days') to determine how Aboriginal people were to be classified and treated by THE LAW?

Look up 'Half-Caste Act'. The 'Stolen Generations' is but one part of what that produced. (In)Sensitive term, ya reckon?

Australian history! What gets taught? Who teaches it? What is it even??

“…more of Australia’s history took place outside the law than within it, and more attempt was made to hide it than record it.”

Les Murray (perhaps Australia's pre-eminent poet, old contrarian rat-bag, and contributing editor to the right-wing Quadrant magazine)

really udo?
half caste in a newspaper
wow im surprised, one could say only in Q land, but i wouldn't want to offend anyone

sypkan wrote:

...but you seem a little trigger happy of late, mainly because threads have gotten way dirtier in the past.

Only a couple of threads have disappeared, the most obvious was the 'climate change' thread and that was at BB's request, the other was an unmanageable trainwreck of libel with a hepped up PE teacher at the helm.

haha (pe) fair enough (bb)

As Stu highlighted previously 'intent' is very important in these types of discussions. As Udo identified 'caste' is used by many in a non racial way but many have interpretated as racial. As Noël Pearson stated he felt 'discombobulated'. Yep, I suggest by many others too.
Time for the green room - plenty of swell coming.

I guess this is kind of relevant to the conversation.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/07/29/australians-subject-caste-...

BTW. I think Swellnet does a good job in regard to moderation, so hat's off to you guys, they are fair and don't over regulate/censor and I've gotta say people/posters here are actually very good normally at not crossing the line and lowering to abusing each other, every now and then newbies probably get treated a little harsh though.

Wow.... i do the 4 1/2 hour haul to adelaide for the weekend, listen to 35000 port fans boo the house down every time a saints player lined up for goal, that's even after winmar and wanganeen toss the coin, I drive back today, check this thread....... And fuck me..... What an abortion.....
Apart from one guy, did anyone read the link I supplied re' the blog written by aboriginal elder Dallas Scott? Or is everyone more content with their own pre conceived judgements and opinions? Is anyone willing to bend? Anyone? Is anyone willing to admit a coin has 3 sides?

Can you post that link here sd.

pointy wrote:

I just go around to reading the article posted by Stu earlier

Read this article ID: http://www.businessinsider.com.au/an-american-expat-explains-the-adam-go...

everyone that hasn't should read this

Yep just read it. Very well written piece.

Rabbits68, that article is bullshit..... The writer says "Goodes was never booed before the Indigenous Round this year (that is, no more so than any other player in the normal course of play). His post-goal war dance brought it on, and the booing is now incessant. "

Bullshit, rabs..... Booing started in May 2014, which I have already covered in this thread, with documentation/links... You'll find it, if you want to...

happyasS wrote:

Can you post that link here sd.

http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/

Sheepdog wrote:

Wow.... i do the 4 1/2 hour haul to adelaide for the weekend, listen to 35000 port fans boo the house down every time a saints player lined up for goal, that's even after winmar and wanganeen toss the coin, I drive back today, check this thread....... And fuck me..... What an abortion.....
Apart from one guy, did anyone read the link I supplied re' the blog written by aboriginal elder Dallas Scott? Or is everyone more content with their own pre conceived judgements and opinions? Is anyone willing to bend? Anyone? Is anyone willing to admit a coin has 3 sides?

Im with you a coin has three sides, heads, tails, and the side edge.

i read it sheepdog, i thought it was good, nice to see the aboriginal community aren't the homogeneous helpless society we are lead to believe, a proud man and rightly so. and the comments were even more enlightening. i thought the yank article was shit also, not to mention a bit rich coming from a yank, segregation was not that long ago.

nice three sides analogy there indo d, its easy to pick the head or tail and stick with it. much more difficult to balance on the edge, i think there's more truth on the edge

Sheepdog wrote:

Rabbits68, that article is bullshit..... The writer says "Goodes was never booed before the Indigenous Round this year (that is, no more so than any other player in the normal course of play). His post-goal war dance brought it on, and the booing is now incessant. "

Bullshit, rabs..... Booing started in May 2014, which I have already covered in this thread, with documentation/links... You'll find it, if you want to...

I guess it started long time ago really, but it hit a level louder than most on the first incident.

It goes like this. (and I'm not saying its right or wrong, just how the boos got to such an extreme level)

1. Adam like most good players gets booed because he uses the rules where he can to his advantage a little staging for free kicks a little dirty play (all good but gets one boo)

2. The 13 year old girl incident, some didn't like it and thought a line had been crossed because of her age (boo's go to second level)

3. The dance and spear throw incident, crowd didn't like it felt they were being razzed up on purpose (boo's go to third on the dial)

4. Adam got Australian of the year, some people felt he didn't deserve it because of the past two incidents (boo's went to four on the dial)

5. Some people didn't like Adam calling Australia day invasion day (boo's went to five on the dial)

6. Media i think maybe played a part in focusing on the issue (boos went to six on the dial)

7. Adam doesn't play because of the boo's and gets labeled a sook by some (no boos because no Adam playing)

8. Where we are at now, people divided on opinion and if its racist etc….people even fight and call each other names on forums, but luckily they make up.

So i guess we wait and see now if the boo's are up or down or if they stop when he comes back to play footy.

Sheepdog wrote:

Rabbits68, that article is bullshit..... The writer says "Goodes was never booed before the Indigenous Round this year (that is, no more so than any other player in the normal course of play). His post-goal war dance brought it on, and the booing is now incessant. "

Bullshit, rabs..... Booing started in May 2014, which I have already covered in this thread, with documentation/links... You'll find it, if you want to...

I'm surprised you dismissed the piece so willingly Sheepy....

I think the booing your referring to from May 2014 was mainly in relation to his dirty play IMO. Just because Goodes has won 2 Brownlows, don't be fooled by the best & fairest tag. The thing is Sheepy, you & I & everyone else can't say for certain what it (the booing back then) really consisted of. We all have our theories........

I know it's a bit off topic but I think the elephant in the room is the years of relentless booing/abuse of the umpires. If we are now talking about a culture of booing in the AFL, look no further than what the umpires of this great game have had to endure..........and where would the game be without umpires?!? Or is this just a case of harden up umps?!? I dont think it should be......

I used to lose my voice after a match of booing the umps....and that was while sitting in front of telly! Haha . My wife used to say.....who are you yelling at?

Anyhow these days im a lot more grown up. I just curse and slap the couch.

They are fair game....especially when your teams losing. It only australian......right?

sypkan wrote:

i read it sheepdog, i thought it was good, nice to see the aboriginal community aren't the homogeneous helpless society we are lead to believe, a proud man and rightly so. and the comments were even more enlightening. i thought the yank article was shit also, not to mention a bit rich coming from a yank, segregation was not that long ago.

nice three sides analogy there indo d, its easy to pick the head or tail and stick with it. much more difficult to balance on the edge, i think there's more truth on the edge

That was a bit philosophical of you spykan. I think often people get polarised because it's easier to be emotional that way, it's human to be emotional.

"i thought the yank article was shit also, not to mention a bit rich coming from a yank, segregation was not that long ago" Skypan

Why is that so Skypan? Shouldn't an American comment on issues to do with Australian history? I'm pretty sure you've probably got views on other countries histories besides Australia's......

yeh happy i like philosophyical cliches, they keep me sane. i dont like either/ors.

yeh actually i think its good to get another countrymans perspective, i just thought that article was pretty lightweight for a stunet recommendation. and i think picking on oz for having ingrained racism is a bit rich from an american. yep america got rid of segregation, around the same time we finally acknowledge aboriginals in the census. as shameful and delayed as that was it was with a 97% majority. i reckon you still wouldn't get a percentage that high today in america

rabbit..... "I think the booing your referring to from May 2014 was mainly in relation to his dirty play IMO. Just because Goodes has won 2 Brownlows, don't be fooled by the best & fairest tag. The thing is Sheepy, you & I & everyone else can't say for certain what it (the booing back then) really consisted of. We all have our theories........"

I'll post it for you again, mate, plus a typical blog at the time (may 2014).... Now you tell me if it's about "dirty play", or racism...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-20/bombers-fan-loses-membership-over-...

http://morningmail.org/no-more-goodes/

indo-dreaming wrote:

Sheepdog wrote:

Rabbits68, that article is bullshit..... The writer says "Goodes was never booed before the Indigenous Round this year (that is, no more so than any other player in the normal course of play). His post-goal war dance brought it on, and the booing is now incessant. "

Bullshit, rabs..... Booing started in May 2014, which I have already covered in this thread, with documentation/links... You'll find it, if you want to...

I guess it started long time ago really, but it hit a level louder than most on the first incident.

It goes like this. (and I'm not saying its right or wrong, just how the boos got to such an extreme level)

1. Adam like most good players gets booed because he uses the rules where he can to his advantage a little staging for free kicks a little dirty play (all good but gets one boo)

2. The 13 year old girl incident, some didn't like it and thought a line had been crossed because of her age (boo's go to second level)

3. The dance and spear throw incident, crowd didn't like it felt they were being razzed up on purpose (boo's go to third on the dial)

4. Adam got Australian of the year, some people felt he didn't deserve it because of the past two incidents (boo's went to four on the dial)

5. Some people didn't like Adam calling Australia day invasion day (boo's went to five on the dial)

6. Media i think maybe played a part in focusing on the issue (boos went to six on the dial)

7. Adam doesn't play because of the boo's and gets labeled a sook by some (no boos because no Adam playing)

8. Where we are at now, people divided on opinion and if its racist etc….people even fight and call each other names on forums, but luckily they make up.

So i guess we wait and see now if the boo's are up or down or if they stop when he comes back to play footy.

Wrong..... Historically incorrect.... shift 3 to 5.... 4 to 3, and 5 to 4..... and check afl stats..... goodes getting more free kicks is bs...

"FACTS regarding ADAM GOODES – direct quotations are bulleted:-
• With the abolition of ATSIC [The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission] came the creation of the National Indigenous Council [NIC], the hand-picked Howard government advisory board that wasted no time in serving up the Prime Minister the sort of advice he’d waited so long to hear. Within a year, the NIC had recommended Aboriginal people in the Northern Territory should have their land compulsorily acquired if they refuse to grant a lease… to anyone, white or black. And the NIC is now arguing for the closure of remote Aboriginal communities which don’t have access to jobs or health services. Did we mention the NIC was hand-picked?
Ref. John Howard’s legacy in Indigenous affairs by Chris Graham http://www.crikey.com.au/…/john-howards-legacy-in-indigeno…/
Adam Goodes was a member of John Howard’s ‘hand-picked’ NIC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Indigenous_Council
• The [Northern Territory] intervention targets all residents of proscribed Aboriginal communities. There are widespread alcohol bans and 50% of welfare payments are replaced with gift cards that can only be used at certain shops and only be spent on food and clothing; a system called "welfare quarantining". By definition, this legislation discriminates against Aboriginal people, which is why the Racial Discrimination Act was suspended to allow the intervention to proceed.
Ref. Northern Territory intervention: myths and facts by Peter Robson https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/39732
Adam Goodes supports and promotes ‘Recognise’, the movement to recognise Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples in the Australian Constitution.
• RECOGNISE is a part of Reconciliation Australia, and [is] governed by the Board of Reconciliation Australia.
http://www.recognise.org.au/about/what-is-recognise/
Supporters of Reconciliation Australia include:
The Australian Government – Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet
BHP Billiton
Woodside
Arnold Bloch Leibler
The Commonwealth Bank
KPMG
Lend Lease
Rio Tinto
ACCOR
Qantas
SBS
Right Management
Ref. Reconciliation.org
https://www.reconciliation.org.au/
The 'Recognising Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples in the Constitution Report of the Expert Panel' is riddled with the following autocratic clause:-
• 'the Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws for the peace, order and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples'
Racial discrimination such as that already encountered by victims of the Intervention would thereby become recognised as lawful by the supreme law of this country."

"CONSTITUTIONAL RECOGNITION
The arguments that mainstream media is hiding from you

Why is the government pushing it and why is mainstream media hiding it?
- The government wants more control over First Nations people, especially those living on 'valuable mining land'
- The commercial channels (ch7, ch9. ch10 etc) are funded by big business interests and regulated by the government
- The ABC and SBS (NITV) is funded and being bullied by the government

Who is the 'Expert Panel' that advises the government?
- they are (un-elected) people especially selected and funded by the government
- The expert Panel: www.recognise.org.au/about/expert-panel/

Why should I oppose it?
- Because the government wants to name First Nations people in the constitution so they have more power over them.
- It will allow the government to discriminate on the basis of race.
- It fails the test of compliance with the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples: www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/documents/DRIPS_en.pdf
- It gives the government the power to pass legislation like the 'Northern Territory Intervention' against the First Nations people in the states
- Sovereignty was never ceded - this legislation will remove these sovereign rights - it will kill any chance of workable and grass roots self-determination
- Follow links for some of the many other issues for First Nations people.
- Constitutional History and Independent Constitutional Reform links: www.sovereignunion.mobi./c…/constitutional-reform-fact-sheet
- www.newmatilda.com/…/recognising-artful-con-constitutional-…
- More article from 'New Matilda': www.newmatilda.com/search/node/constitutional%20reform
- Red Flag, Constitutional Recognition: https://redflag.org.au/search/…/constitutional%20recognition

Do First Nations people want it?
- No - see recent independent - Poll: www.indigenousx.com.au/constitutional-recognition-survey/
- Article: www.theguardian.com/…/87-of-indigenous-people-do-not-agree-…

Do non-Indigenous people want it?
- Yes, because they think its what First Nations people want
- They have been tricked by the multi-million dollar advertising campaign.
- There is a media ban on 'Sovereignty' and any article that questions 'R' Constitutional Recognition

This was written in haste by SU Facebook admins following requests for more information: Please post more reasons or article links in the comments

"If Tony Abbott badly wants it, it won't be in the interests of First Nations people and will be in the interests of international mining giants"."

gents … you may wish to see the latest movie with Michael Caton and directed by Jeremy Sims - 'Last Cab to Darwin'. Very relevant for todays issue(s). He is a good actor anyway - worth seeing.

tonybarber wrote:

gents … you may wish to see the latest movie with Michael Caton and directed by Jeremy Sims - 'Last Cab to Darwin'. Very relevant for todays issue(s). He is a good actor anyway - worth seeing.

Haven't seen 'Last Cab to Darwin' but a few years back Sims directed a film 'Last Train to Freo'. I'm sensing a pattern here...

Sheepdog wrote:

rabbit..... "I think the booing your referring to from May 2014 was mainly in relation to his dirty play IMO. Just because Goodes has won 2 Brownlows, don't be fooled by the best & fairest tag. The thing is Sheepy, you & I & everyone else can't say for certain what it (the booing back then) really consisted of. We all have our theories........"

I'll post it for you again, mate, plus a typical blog at the time (may 2014).... Now you tell me if it's about "dirty play", or racism...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-20/bombers-fan-loses-membership-over-...

http://morningmail.org/no-more-goodes/

Thanks for those links, again, Sheepy. Yep no doubt those two specific examples are clearly racism related. Given there's no proving what portion of the crowds, both past & present, are booing with racist motives or for other reasons, the only solution is to ban booing full stop.

Any thoughts on the booing/abuse of umpires Sheepy??

Cheers Tim Foilat...nothing to see here?!

let's leave the last act of all this to the convicted racist, Andrew Bolt

Ah jesus, such a sad indictment of Australia's development in race relations.

First up, sure, there are plenty of people who have booed Adam Goodes who aren't racist. That's a given.

But facts speak loudly. Nobody has been booed for 15 months relentlessly. Being called an ape! Probably already covered beforehand, I didn't go over a few of the pages here, but the backdrop to this epithet is that calling a black man an ape, an orang-utan, a gorilla etc goes back historically to genuinely held beliefs and deeply racist attitudes that white men have considered blacks to be closer to the apes in evolutionary terms.

Even now, the simple premise that white man is an advanced culture, and that aboriginal culture was 'backward' because they didn't build houses and roads (Tony Abbott, I'm looking at you) are deeply racist and shows how backward the dear whiteys are in assessing cultural relativities. The underlying premise is that if blacks were not so 'backward' in evolutionary terms they would have built more things.

Great concept, it's just that it is mainly white and 'yellow' man who has overpopulated this planet, raped the resources, not looked after the land, have no ongoing plan for stopping the rampant abuse of our natural resources and will inevitably run headlong into environmental catastrophe. Who is looking like the 'intelligent' race now. Go and look at the climate change thread to see how backward so many of us clever whiteys still are.

So calling Goodes an ape is not only not on, it is demonstrably, clearly, unarguably racist.

Goodes may have, in the past, 'staged' for free kicks. Well fuck me, hang the bastard! Oh yeah, but lots of other guys do it even more and don't cop this sort of treatment.

So let's look from the other angle, what if Goodes, or even me, called that 13 year old a fat little mongtard? Is that fair? Isn't that fatttist?

There are plenty of aboriginals who are happy to wallow in the victim mentality and use it to escape the shit that most of us put up with every day, but there are plenty of whiteys like that too. Adam Goodes, isn't one of them.

The more you look at it, the more it just looks like Adam Goodes wasn't the quiet little good black boy, and he has been vilified for that.

We have not progressed one speck from the days that Nicky Winmar lifted his jumper to the crowd.

That! That is what depresses me. The farking racists haven't moved one iota, they have just learned how to hide their racism behind the mob.

Deplorable.

Shatner'sBassoon wrote:

let's leave the last act of all this to the convicted racist, Andrew Bolt

it looks like he is pulling the dick on his forehead!!!! lol

Sheepdog wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

Sheepdog wrote:

Rabbits68, that article is bullshit..... The writer says "Goodes was never booed before the Indigenous Round this year (that is, no more so than any other player in the normal course of play). His post-goal war dance brought it on, and the booing is now incessant. "

Bullshit, rabs..... Booing started in May 2014, which I have already covered in this thread, with documentation/links... You'll find it, if you want to...

I guess it started long time ago really, but it hit a level louder than most on the first incident.

It goes like this. (and I'm not saying its right or wrong, just how the boos got to such an extreme level)

1. Adam like most good players gets booed because he uses the rules where he can to his advantage a little staging for free kicks a little dirty play (all good but gets one boo)

2. The 13 year old girl incident, some didn't like it and thought a line had been crossed because of her age (boo's go to second level)

3. The dance and spear throw incident, crowd didn't like it felt they were being razzed up on purpose (boo's go to third on the dial)

4. Adam got Australian of the year, some people felt he didn't deserve it because of the past two incidents (boo's went to four on the dial)

5. Some people didn't like Adam calling Australia day invasion day (boo's went to five on the dial)

6. Media i think maybe played a part in focusing on the issue (boos went to six on the dial)

7. Adam doesn't play because of the boo's and gets labeled a sook by some (no boos because no Adam playing)

8. Where we are at now, people divided on opinion and if its racist etc….people even fight and call each other names on forums, but luckily they make up.

So i guess we wait and see now if the boo's are up or down or if they stop when he comes back to play footy.

Wrong..... Historically incorrect.... shift 3 to 5.... 4 to 3, and 5 to 4..... and check afl stats..... goodes getting more free kicks is bs...

You missed the point the order is not important, it the fact its a cumulation of things, its a fact most including the media ignore.

The free kick thing might be true but its the perception by the crowd, which doesn't just go for him.

Indo, with the greatest respect, if anyone has "missed" anything, it is you.... Firstly a "timeframe" has already been posted on this thread.. Unlike your timeframe, it follows the events correctly.. Go back to page 2, Thursday, 30 Jul 2015 at 7:22pm..... You were taking part in this thread at the time.... The order of events is important... To say it isn't shows a direct bias, and a clear pre conceived viewpoint on your behalf.... Your above post would not stack up in any argument, debate, or court.
Secondly, the "free kick thing"..... It isn't a case of "might be true".... It is statistically true.... It is definitely true, not "might be, maybe, possibly, could be"..... Once again, it doesn't stack up....

Rabbit..... I think I have aired my opinion on booing in general.... I think there is nothing wrong with a good old "boo"... I was booing our batsmen last night lol..... But I'm not gonna boo one player, week after week, after week, after week, with a hidden agenda behind that boo..... Yeah, I booed that cocky Ackermanis... Only cos he was so good that he gave me the shits.... When you are at a game, you can tell what the booing is for, generally.... You can hear comments among the booing... Geez I've heard supporters boo their own players when that player fucks up.... But as I have said before, a small narrow minded bunch of fuckwits is gonna ruin a bit of light hearted fun for all.... These fucktards are the same fucktards that got heavy beer banned at some venues, cos a small bunch would run a drunken mok.... These same fucktards dive bomb people with kites in public parks.. Now kite flying is banned by some councils.... These same fucktards are the ones that cause fights at night clubs, therefore bringing in time restrictions.... You know what I'm getting at aye....
Lastly, people wanna go to the footy or cricket to "escape" for a few hours..... When politics of any sort enters this domain, things can get ugly... Perhaps making a sportsman "Australian of the year" wasn't the smartest move.... I think a small percentage of booers just want to watch footy, they want to "zone out".....And Goodes reminds them of the shit going down outside the arena.....
There are many fine Australians out there, of all creeds, fighting disease, helping those in need, inventing and employing..... There are alot of folk out there more worthy of the title "Australian of the year" than Adam Goodes... And no, that is not racist.... Some of those folk have non white skin....

Ha ha Sheepo, lets just agree to disagree.

udo wrote:

Black Steam train - Stolen.

Yes another interesting read http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au

I think the backgrounds/past of both himself and Adams has been a part in how they see things or themselves.

that black steam train page is amazing, should be compulsory reading for all australians black and white, especially the so called 'bleeding hearts' and 'black armband' crew (sorry i hate those terms but dont know how else to say it) great to hear a different perspective, one that has real solutions, not for everbody, but hey whatever works. once again the comments are very enlightening.

i remember a lindy chamberlan interview when asked how was she so strong when the whole country was against her, "we all have a choice, i wasnt going to be a victim"

I posted Dallas Scotts Black steam train not as the "be all and end all".... The reason i posted it was to show that there is a wide and varied view within the aboriginal community itself.... I wanted to show that the views of Stan Grant ( and his massively popular article), or Noel Pearson etc are not the views of all aboriginals... To think that all aboriginals support Stan Grants views, or that all aboriginals support Dallas Scott Black steam train, is like saying all White people support Andrew Bolts view, or Sarah Hanson Young's views.....
Dallas Scott speaks for himself, as does Stan Grant.... Neither are right.... Or wrong.... When aboriginals are counted as not only a bunch of tribes represented by a select few, chosen by the anglo saxon media purely for political or profit purposes, but also as individuals with individual needs and goals (just like us), that's when we will be one step closer to true equality
What is wrong at this point in time, is cherry picking certain views that suit a pre conceived subjective opinion.... The right answer for a deeply convoluted and troublesome situation rarely comes from an epiphany, but rather a long studious look at all angles, all sides, and everything in between....

I totally agree Sheepdog that's why I wrote "not for everbody, but hey whatever works."

What was very interesting was how he sees things pretty much the same for white foster kids. The 'do gooders' filling aboriginal peoples heads with ideas "oh you poor things" and "terrible white man" may not be helping and may actually be hindering their recovery.

Trauma victims need to face what happened to them work out what happened in their heads by talking through it, getting the narrative right in their heads. The current paradigm often doesn't facilitate this, it encourages band aid solutions that can lead to lifetimes of substance abuse and running from problems. Dallas Scott doesn't have all the answers, but it is refreshing to hear an Aboriginal person say the things he is willing to say.

I also enjoyed his recount of Aboriginal dance in the other article, having accompanied an aboriginal boy to dance lessons and performances over a period of years, his experience was exactly the same as Dallas. doing some other tribes dance and songs because he "needs to be connected to his culture" when in fact his culture and language was from thousands of kilometers away and no doubt quite different. not to mention the teachers tribe being from another couple of thousand kilometers away on top of those other thousands, but he had the gig because he was a 'mover and a shaker' and a very competent individual, and a great guy as well, but all this was grouped together for convenience. despite being paid the kid hated doing it, felt like a performing bear and could not wait to stop. And the aboriginal kids hanging around that came from more functional families had no interest at all, they were more interested in dancing in nightclubs, just like white kids, and good on em, if that's what they want. Why do we assume a kid from a dysfunctional family would be any different?

But the honkeys group all this stuff together portraying aboriginal people as one big homogenous group, with the same needs and interests. as one said to me "Australia was like Europe before whiteys came with many different cultures and languages, do you expect all Europeans to act the same, and have the same needs hopes and aspirations?" but we do, and if you question the status quo you're labelled some kind of racist.

In this crazy fucked existence, sypo, I don't know the answer to all of this... I can't speak for how different aboriginals think.... I can't speak for how different white people think.... I can only point out very interesting takes on it... Fuck man, sometimes I find myself questioning my own opinions.... I find my own hypocrisy/s as confusing as others.... Am I meant to be proud of my own heritage? Am I meant to be empathetic to minorities? Can I be both? Do I recognize the indigenous people as the rightful owners of this land? Do I therefore sell out on my own peoples explorative history dating back thousands of years? I am 1/2 german, with one side of my family coming here in the 1950s....... Does that mean that I am "1/2 sorry"? What did my german ancestors ever do to the aboriginals?.... Do I identify with my colonial past, or my german past?If I say "sorry", will the 1/2 apology be accepted? And if different aboriginals hold different views, which view should I back? Which should I give the thumbs down? If 2 aboriginal viewpoints are put across, will the winning viewpoint be the one that "white Australia" is most comfortable with?........... And what exactly is the "end game" in all of this????? The end game........ If I was to sit down with Noel pearson for example, I'd ask him; "If you could click your fingers, tell me in 50 words what would be the Australia that would make you happy, the Australia where all your issues have been solved"?........ What would end this?"
Do you think he could answer it? If yes, what would it be?

Sheepd…good questions to ask. Personally I don't believe we know hence the discombobulation. There are interesting articles, speeches from Pearson at http://capeyorkpartnership.org.au/news/a-structure-for-empowerment/
Maybe a good point to start. Regardless, the aboriginals do need help in many aspects of our society. The european way does not seem to work.
But as time moves on and there will be a positive society from this.

Whole lot of hand wringing going down fellas.

Just be nice to people.

No one has any more right to live anywhere on Earth than any one else.

Have you intentionally harmed anyone ?

No ? Then get over it.

Now that was easy , wasn't it ?