Climate change wankers
Craig wrote:TB, can't just add solar and water tanks to a property when renting...
Yes you can still do something . You can buy green energy , you can buy a Nissan Leaf or Mitsy PHEV .
Before you even go there , you can install a charger at your work ! ," Swellnet the green blowin's "
. You could get solar installed at the office , although it maybe a Fairfax building ;-( .
Hell if you pay for the charger ' and materials I'll even wire it up for free !
Soggy , Teslas ' are mint I drove one to Bells a few months ago . There power walls are still behind many other opposition units in the way of availability . Lithium isn't currently recyclable in Australia , but I'm sure they'll sort that out soon . If lithium worries you for your house Ecoult (Aust) do the Ultra battery and Narada ( China ) do the same sealed Carbon Lead Acid battery . Both very much recyclable .
@southey,
Is Ecoult the Australian company currently setting up to sell their battery storage & solar systems to India thereby leap frogging the need for (1) coal powered power stations (2) poles & wires to transmit electricity from the power station to factories and houses (3) centralised control of the process & profits?
You know just like India did with mobile phones instead of building or maintaining a copper wire telephone network like the first world country called Australia?
Just asking coz there are some right royal raving ratbags here still thinking we can all stay in last century with our T-shirts well and truly still tucked into our undies ......
barley
u place a lot of your energy on so called reports, summits, scientist's etc etc. R u really a farmer, if u r, u must be a piss poor one mate.
u have given everyone a serve on here about what they should be doing.
i think what you should be doing is having a good hard look at yourself.
too hard mate, dont like what u see.
is this just your pay out site- take the piss site, or are you really a very narrow minded uneducated man who understands very little of how the processes of earth's biosphere actually works.
dude, have u ever wondered why your crops are failing, as u report. could it be u? your attitude, your inability to honour the land that is there.
there are plenty of examples where positive, loving people have transformed lands into thriving ecosystems and even stories where rainfall could be produced if needed.
but you wont have really taken any of this in, u would have been composing your reply from after reading the first few words of this post.
Im going to send u good vibes barley, because i hope it helps u, it must not be nice to be so opinionated, abusive and so expert on knowing everything.
Fact barley, one negative entity like u is so toxic it can set off idiotic hurtful behaviour in another toxic being- all beings joined by electromagnetic current- so barley, theory becomes practice, this post is cleaning up your toxicity, those u know and theres nothing u can do dude- so dont worry be happy.
And the wheels on the bus go round and round.......... So glad I've taken time out from all of this.... Anyway, winter seemed like winter... Quite a cold one.... Spring is feeling like spring..... And I'd probably put money on it that summer will feel like summer.... But hey, I don't have any qualifications, so don't take my word for it..... We've had some pretty big wet seasons (eg grantham flood) over the past decade, so we're more than likely due for an el nino affected drier than usual summer...... But let's stop giving all the little kiddies anxiety about the end of the world, shall we? Unless of course ya' got shares in big pharma....
Quite cruel, really.... Psychological child abuse lol.....
need to send them to sara jean underwood for some yoga meditation.
Maaaate... She's a stunner.... You'd give your left nut to go "bushwalking" with her, you virile old bastard.... :)
Dave your fucked up hippy narrative is at best dillusional at worst blindsided.
I have had to deal with the enviro for 20+yrs and i am only a young buck..gleaned lots of info and wisdom from the elders around and they know their shit.
Unfortunately you donot (maybe thats why labor tried to groom you). But keep up your electromagnetic fantasy bro its obviously doin you good.
I accept that the weather is unpredictable and if i get wiped by frost or gail or fire or drought..you gotta roll with it.
Its fucking laughable the so called experts can tell what mother earth is up to.
You can have your view, i have mine the difference is i accept i do not know what tommorrow will bring while you guys try to dictate it.
It's not what you're sayin', barley... I'm actually in your camp on this one..... It's your abrasive bullshit holier than thou attitude that everyone is sick of... "I've had to deal with the enviro" "ah good old retired Blindcock..typical scientific nerd".. " blah blah blah.........
You see, whilst I agree with your stance, i couldn't join you in a debate, because you are acting like a douche...
I dont mind being a douche...i can wear it..i'm just sick of the rhetoric of fear and impending doom.
barley, please find one post of mine about impending doom.
Yes we have two very different levels of awareness, this i respect. But as stated, it's the way you put forward your message that is not one that endears you to other post members.
As your first line of reply to my post indicates, spelling errors and all, always attacking.
Barley I apologise to you if I have written anything that has hurt, threatened or scared you.
But as u say, life goes on, it's how we perceive that life that matters, whether it be from a fucked up delusional hippy electromagnetic freakster, or from someone such as a douche as u dont mind being barley. May the force be with you.
Doesnt really bother me if i offend people on this site.
Who are the people on here anyway?
I will say you have not added to the hysteria but you had a solid dig at me.
I give blindcock, floggy etc shit cause they run an agenda.
Can't look at an argument bothsided.
Floyd /shatinher has called me a neo-con...i believe in climate-cons.
Havent you heard farmers always whinge? Haga
hysteria? agenda? looking at an "argument" from bothsides"
really?
I've charged my mind, this isn't like The Simpsons its more Monty Python
ah, the life of brian, what a classic- just dont call me a big nose floyd, all right:)
This place really is the Argument Clinic ....
davetherave wrote:barley, please find one post of mine about impending doom.
Can't find one;)
barley wrote:Doesnt really bother me if i offend people on this site.
Who are the people on here anyway?
Fair call!
I'm a person just like you;) but I don't know you, just like you don't know me?
In your profession tho and talking with others close to yourself in your industry, IMO that's really important . People like yourself have a better grip on the weather than most year after year.
But next year will be another and the year after.
Peace, Rain, Sunshine and lots of love to the crops.
And the waves:)
floyd wrote:This place really is the Argument Clinic .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
had me in stitches floyd, tears streaming down my face, thanks for that one, love a great big belly laugh.
what really happens here on swellnet......
happyasS wrote:what really happens here on swellnet......
classic, well done, good to laugh at yourself and some of the silly shit we think and do eh.
hey dave glad you like the link .... couple more Monty's for you
One might explain some correspondents here .....
barley wrote:I dont mind being a douche...i can wear it..i'm just sick of the rhetoric of fear and impending doom.
Yeah I'm sick of it too, as I've stated soo many friggn times I'm over it.... I just cant stand the fact that people like you do more damage to the side I'm on than those who are on the other side.... Your waffle gives skeptics a bad rep.....
This might be a better metaphor for where the climate debate is now:
Large wooden badger being prepared as we speak.
Here's a story about farmers and science for you ...
I watching ABC this last week (Landline? ) and they were telling the story of the Cane Growers Association's fight to convince growers how they could improve yield/profitability.
So the Cane Growers Association [the peak body set up to represent the growers] funded a scientific study to determine how, if at all, growers could improve yield of their crops.
The study found that if growers delayed harvesting their crops until that part of the steam bearing the rich sugar cane fully matured the yield would increase because less of the leafy green top would be harvested, transported and ultimately burnt (as bio waste) by the mill. Apparently there are millions of dollars $AUD of increased profits in it.
So, why you might ask is the Cane Growers Association having trouble convincing their own growers to delay harvest?
Well apparently, many of the farmers know better, coz that's the way they have always done it and they don't trust the science.
I guess you can be a skeptic and then you again you can also be a ignoramus ...
Barley…your not a 'douche'. Nothing wrong with telling it as it is. There are many that seem to ignore direct experience. To suggest that those on the land don't know the land, is very hypercritical.
Hat off to DaveRave … respectful comment - not often seen, here.
Ohh he's a douche.... "Direct experience"? WTF does that mean? Flannery has "direct experience", as do many of the pro climate change camp.... So wtf does that mean? Let's say in the future the climate change lobby succeed and by law Barley HAS to adopt more expensive farming practices, couldn't those on the opposite side of his fence accuse him of a conflict of interest, and therefore derail his argument? "Direct experience" is a furphy when money is involved......
Plans to make climate change denial a crime;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/11924776/Judges-plan-to-outlaw-climat...
Haha floggy nice that you've left out most of the story like time of harvest ,weather conditions ..there's obviously reasons or else they wouldve adopted them..lots of those associations have members on the boards that have direct conflicts of interest or treat the actual growers with disdain.happens in cereal cropping and livestock as well mate. What usually end up is the boards fight between each other, each one claiming to have farmers interests at heart but they are all involved in private companies that benefit not the farmers.
Sheepo you got know idea bra. Never had any direct experience? Dont even know what your on about with that one
SheepD… by 'direct experience', I was suggesting that there are many people that live / work / dependent on climate. It is fair to assume that a good level of experience is thus obtained as opposed to those in research labs, offices and the like. One of the key issues with the IPCC reports is that these are fundamentally dependent on modelling and trying to match observed data with the models. We do accept that many models do not fit all the data observed. Hence the likes of Prof Flannery espouse the virtues of the models that do fit the observed data. I doubt there are many that believe Flannery has 'experience' in this field. Bear in mind the observed data is only very recent. I know that IPCC was heavily dependent on Russia's data since it covered a very large land mass. But it turned out that the Communists did not do very accurate readings nor had accurate temperature gauges back in the 40s and 50s. There are many questions where experience can be more valuable. Re making it a crime for denial - well I believe there are papers that will not publish climate change questions. I know that Richard Glover (ABC presenter) was very embarrassed that the ABC does not tend allow denial view points.
Floyd - do you believe it should be a crime to contradict the man made global warming theory ?
@blowin,
Definitely not that's bullshit, people should be free to believe what they like so long as that belief doesn't harm others or incite others to harm.
I would also add I want people with opposing views, say on climate, to have a rational well thought out position based on fact, sorry as I believe in the science the alternative position can't be based on anything less. Alternatively, rather than making blanket statements against a position what about people perhaps putting reasonable questions to the opposite view like: I don't quite understand what you're saying there, can you please explain further.
Sadly, its rare to see people here asking others questions to clarify earlier statements, so I thank you for your question.
I also wonder whether there are correspondents here with multiple accounts which are used to just shit stir or alternatively perhaps one or two are lobby group stooges employed to snipe from the side (you know who I'm talking about). The responses to Blindboy's Climate Update forum topic comes to mind here.
Anyway, that's what I think.
It should be a crime for those with a vested interest ie fossil fuel companies and shareholders, to deliberately spread misinformation. This is the ultimate source of most denialism. They feed the ignorant and poorly educated with a pre-digested opinion and,as has been repeatedly demonstrated on this site, they swallow it whole. My advice is to leave the thread to them.
tonybarber wrote:SheepD… by 'direct experience', I was suggesting that there are many people that live / work / dependent on climate. It is fair to assume that a good level of experience is thus obtained as opposed to those in research labs, offices and the like.
not fair to assume that at all....its a totally different level of experience. the farmers experience is one largely subjective and related to his own little bit of paddock and says nothing about the globe as a system. the farmer does not study the climate, he simply works within its constraints.
hows a farmer going notice warming of the oceans by 0.5 degrees C over the last 50 years or whatever it the latest figure is? hes simply not studying trends in enough detail, and so hows he going to be objectively opinionated?... cant. so what measuring stick is the farmer using to draw any conclusions about climate change? its not good enough to just say that a farmers experience forms a contradictory argument to the science on climate change just because he works outdoors in the sun and rain.
how many people on this thread think that the planet and atmosphere is actually alive, a living being like us but in it's own way????????
How many people going to Paris believe this?????
dave, that's the incalculable amazing magic about the planet, it is (or was) alive and in balance. Earth, the beautiful blue planet, one planet in billions. Its simple but our little brains can't comprehend how precious and truly unique it is.
Too common to write off climate science as useless for not being perfect when science is a process of refinement inline with improvements in measurement capability and systematic knowledge building using falsification.
Its like saying the spelling of cat as "kat" is as unusable as "wt65ehTZhtiuwGg9512". It's not perfect but it is relevant considering the knowledge capability currently available. Climate science won't suddenly be proven irrelevant or structurally wrong, but it will be further improved and refined.
As for the romantic ideal that a couple of farmers "really know" ... uhm, yeah.
Mk1...there are of course many farmers that do suggest there is climate change. I'm not sure what you were intending to state. It would be naive to ignore the experience that many do have. In fact the IPCC modelling is based on past measured data. But that is just one way to try to predict the climate, complex as it is.
Essentially the real issue is how to address the 'predicted' climate change. Proposing criminal laws against those who may have a vested interest is certainly not Aus way. Geeez, I hope we still believe in freedom of ideas and expression.
BB, you write "It should be a crime for those with a vested interest ie fossil fuel companies and shareholders, to deliberately spread misinformation."......
No it shouldn't..... That's ultimate big brother.... If that's how climate change advocates want to play the game, then those with vested interests in climate change should be banned from debating the subject... For example, Lord Deben was recently on the Drum, waffling away as he does about the end of the world.... But Lord Deben has a proven track record of conflict of interest, making gutloads of cash on the side......
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2338255/Tim-Yeo-MP-paid-400-000-...
And as far as spreading misinformation goes, NOAA would be charged under your new age totalitarian rules, BB, for this totally misleading graph I posted, which even our own BOM concedes is wrong..
http://www.swellnet.com/comment/483904
Barley..... It's "no" idea... Not "Know" idea..... Fuck mate..... If you can't get a grasp of what I was saying, Pack up your bat and ball, bro...... Also note; I disagree with BB and Floyd on this one, but I remain civil about it...Do you understand that? Is that too hard for you?
sheepdog I explained to you why the NOAA map is correct and matches what the BOM reported (in my comment on Wednesday, 2 Sep 2015 at 8:52pm).
Briefly, BOM reported this winter in Vic was cold compared to the average of the last 40 (according to the link provided by carpetman, coldest in 26 years according to ABC article you provided). NOAA reported it was among the warmest 44 of the last 130 (explained in the link you provided, that you titled Percentile). Even the coldest year in the last 40 could still be among the warmest 44 of the last 130, and this year was only the coldest in the last 26.
NOAA and BOM are not inconsistent with each other, i.e. the NOAA map is not wrong, nor is it misleading. It's referring to a longer time period than the newspapers and the BOM, which was clearly stated on the link you provided.
thats why we need to understand that the issue is not climate change, but whether human activities are having a positive or negative aspect to the earth and it's biosphere. Observation shows we arent helping it. Water and air pollution, land degradation, species being over consumed throwing out the food cycles, especially the ocean- as we know.
We have to have a good hard look at ourselves.
Did u see the ceremony for the Emmys- gold threaded carpet, golden goblets, extravagance galore- yet we have millions now living in refugee camps or in desperate need of food, medical help etc.
Is it little wonder California is in it's worst drought??? Wake up. HUmanity Insanity needs to stop, NOW!
The earth contemplates itself as one cohesive unit.
I know you guys want the stats , u want the science, but it's all data. It's like having a lion running at u and u all have to have a meeting whether it is a feline, how big it is, why its running fast toward u with slobbering mouth open.
There is knowledge and there is wisdom, Wisdom is knowledge applied and the wisdom shows that we , humans , have to clean up our act in relation to each other and to our beautiful unique planet as floyd correctly states. time for a monty python sketch or an old hoges one-anyone???
Benski, I didn't accept your explanation.... The map is wrong... For example, Sydney is pixelated for the month of July as "MUCH WARMER THAN AVERAGE"...... Now we can play semantics, we can "blame pixels".... or we can accept the fact that the map is inaccurate (which is a polite word for "wrong")...
So lets just look at July, which the NOAA map is about..... Let look at the BOM stats for Sydney in July... NOAA has Sydney "MUCH WARMER THAN AVERAGE"..... Not just WARMER than average.......... But BOM has July as the coldest in nearly 30 years... Minimum Temps were BELOW average... Maximum temps were BELOW average....
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/month/nsw/archive/201507.sydney.shtml
So, the NOAA map is midleading, and therefore under BB's plan, NOAA should face the law..... I, however, am far more lenient than BB..... :p
Sheepdog....don't follow your comments with emoticons.
It diminishes the impact of what you have to say.
It's either your opinion or it's not.
Haven't been keeping a close eye on these convos, but SD, looks like the NOAA sea pixel is overlapping into Sydney, hence the difference from the BOM's cold summary. IE that NOAA data isn't representative of Sydney but more so the offshore sea temps.
Climate science is just another form of religion..kind of evangelistic...
If you had to be locked up with a global warmist or hardcore evangelistic who would you choose?
You're wrong sheepdog and it has nothing to do with pixels. I've explained twice now why BOTH agencies are CORRECT and neither one contradicts the other. Even more briefly this time because you seem to have not read either post from me properly... Each agency is comparing the winter of 2015 to DIFFERENT time periods, BOM the last 40 years and NOAA the last 130 years.
The links you yourself have provided show that to be the case. You need to read them properly and think about it because right now you're the one who's at risk of the blindboy's law enforcement.
barley wrote:Climate science is just another form of religion..kind of evangelistic...
yeah, apart from the sciencey bit.
im thinking that lots of climate freaks are also vegans/vegos so I'd have to go with the evangelist barley. being locked in a room with someone who has a healthy diet of beans and legumes sounds less than appealing.
I love how climate alarmists go beserk when you dispute or pick apart their 'science'. First your a skeptic or in denial any other document other than their own its like oh that's an opinion piece or that's not from IPCC .
Then when that doesn't work they blame Murdoch. Every alarmist loves to bash Murdoch, he's good currency.
Then when that wears thin they jump,cut and paste on any new article that 'proves' their view of the world,sorry,hang on, climate is going to shit.
Its like these guys love hearing bad news!
Does any climate scientist have anything good to say?ever?
Imagine surfing with these guys.
.you; 'looks alright out there'
them;"no its not its shit..the suns getting hotter, its too hot'
I thnk your right happyass vegans/vegos probably getting no action too !!
@Benski you've just proved how any person on either side of any debate and especially relevant to climate science can gather or manipulate information to benefit their argument.
Sheepie and you both have diagrams that illustrate your points of view(although opposite) and both you have deemed to be correct.
One is colder than average and one is warmer than average. Who is more right or who is more relevant or both?
And people ask why you can't trust the science?
like your thinking dave .... looking after the planet is just simple common sense not needing mathematical modelling calculated down to the tenth decimal point of a bee's dick to tell us all we are messing up.
There are two ways I link religion (loosely defined) and climate. (1.) buddhist belief of respecting all living creatures and (2.) those lunatic creationists and zealots of various faiths that believe its all in God's hands and we are here to use the earth in whatever way we feel fit to honour of his/her will.
happyasS, I'll take that as a comment.
"When people thought the earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the earth was spherical, they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together."
http://principia-scientific.org/supportnews/latest-news/163-new-discover...
Now to all you fruit loops. This is the end to the biggest load bullshit of all time. The government know's it (but still won't say it ), the smart people like me know it. When will you clowns please apologise to me for your un-educated attacks.
To all the man made global warmest alarmist's suck shit losers.
Now go and do something worthwhile fuckwits.