A timely reminder to fucken behave
Swellnet “is a surfing website. We provide surf reports, forecasts, surfcams and surf editorial.“
Your words Ben
A lot of negativity, insults and the like have happened over the issue of your covid 19 don’t travel to surf banner. Ditto Stus article suggesting people photo number plates and fob people in to the cops for driving to the beach
It’s given justification to localism of the most petty sort and is disconnected from the actual legislation in this issue
If swellnet is a surfing website as you say, how about removing the banner and just letting the lawmakers police etc do their job without your opinion on what people should or shouldn’t do with regards to travelling to surf?
Hey Billy, how’s about you let Ben, Stu and Craig decide what they put on their site? They’ve said, repeatedly, it’s what they deem to be an act of social responsibility. This thread is ultimately about exercising some restraint and civility. I’m not sure you can put any loss of the above onto the issue of the banners and recommendations.
I enjoy a good internet Barney as much as the next punter, but I think you’re off target here.
Apologies for prolonging this , Stu.
Done.
Time to chill.
Aaaaww, ain't that sweet.
Forelock tugger.
Woopsie!
Too soon?
This year's been crazy. The confusion & angst in outside society has transferred into the forums. The bushfires were the start, then this virus which will have a profound effect on Australia and the world. Pity. 2020 was to be my 30 years of surfing celebration, down tools and travel places just going surfing. I'll have to take a raincheck.
Didn't you say something along those lines last week Blowin?
I'm here for the humour.
Raincheck on life.
enough guys, assuming guys covers gals these days, it's a surfing site. If we want to deal with conspiracy theories and the fact China is burning a huge amount of biomass in and around Wuhan then we can debate that elsewhere....
Also wtf is it with closing beaches??!
enough guys, assuming guys covers gals these days, it's a surfing site. If we want to deal with conspiracy theories and the fact China is burning a huge amount of biomass in and around Wuhan then we can debate that elsewhere....
Also wtf is it with closing beaches??!
Ah, blow in's lather, rinse, repeat.
Again.
24/7.
For years!
Imagine if ol' mate Vic Local knew about your pre-Chinese virus/Wuhan flu anti-Chinese hoo hah. Perils of being yellow (Get it! Get it!)!
Or your Indian grandmother bollocks.
Or before that, your anti-Muslim tirades.
Or just general and generic 'foreigner' fear.
And the evils of multiculturalism of course.
Oh, and that time when two other (now departed) commentators were having an informative discussion about indigenous Australian generational trauma and the subject of epigenetics, and you got excited and jumped in with your mistaken take on eugenics! Oh, how we laughed.
And who can forget your subsequent "pointing the bone" reference! Ho ho ho!
My fave though, and quite recent, was the infamous "fucking vibrant scum" jibe.
All in good humour, I believe.
Yes, nothing to ever see here.
24/7.
FOR YEARS!
Hang on...almost forgot...AND a One Nation voter!
Hah!
Just keep calm and keep on truckin', Swellnetonians.
Balance is key!
Like equating the Christchurch killer and his ilk with the Australian Greens!?
And that was our elected representatives!
Remember that?
Funny shit.
Yew!
Anyway, Withnail & I is on tomorrow night. SBS World Movies. Do yaself a favour.
Fantastic movie.
Early Richard E. Grant acting?
@ Pupkin
Blowin just like me can be controversial and opinionated but he also is a positive contributor to the forums also commenting on non political non social post be it surfing, boards, lifestyle, music etc
In particular he has started some great non political non social issues threads and shared some great stories.
A couple recent ones is his take on the 7S fish and a great story to a remote region where his mate hit the reef.
Meanwhile what do you bring?....only time you are really active is with post like above trying to stir up shit or posting links, and then you just change profile names every six months, clearly each time trying to deceive others that you are a new poster, and i have to admit i was fooled at first, but i guess as we can see a leopard really cant change its spots.
He just recommended a really good movie Indo.
BTW. Ive got a feeling this thread is more aimed towards recent post in article threads between Blowin and Vic local etc, i didnt really read them, just skimmed over a few.
Personally i think those articles comment areas aren't a place for back and forth crap especially once people go off topic.
@Zen @Pupkin
Considering he's been teetotal all his life it's hard to knock his acting in as Withnail. I remember watching this in my teens and being convinced they were smashed :)
SBS World Movies is killing it. The Long Good Friday was on last night. What a flick!
A must-see if you've never done so.
And poor sweet Indo (sigh), why would anyone with half a brain rely on you for anything in these threads, especially your bong-addled (in glory daze of yore) memories of what's what on these threads.
Other than a guide to the softer obscurer waves of Indonesia of course.
Cheers!
Oh, and 'creamy coffee' race relations in Australia between Settlers and First Nations peoples.
And how fucked Jacinda Ardern was in the Christchurch aftermath.
And who can forget the infamous Dandenong Markets Muslim experiment that never was?!
Gold!
Don't you go changing ID. You're always informative.
Not so much content wise, but definitely intent wise.
Yew!
Hang on, who's that banging on my front door...? They've got a white van...????
...
David Leyonhjelm?
I’m glad I missed the latest shit fight, not much annoys me here these days except when someone bangs on and on for days chasing every little nuance of an argument down their personal rabbit holes, probably been guilty of it myself but hopefully not for some time.
I also yearn for the days of Big Wayne coz he was refreshingly always right and some more double entendres from Gary G always fills a hole.
Keep safe and stay upright
Wow. This reminds me of another surf website forum in times of yore when shit got outta hand and pretty much stayed that way. I certainly played my part and with the benefit of hindsight I can say that all keyboard chest beating is pointless. Of that other website, all I can say is that the moderating was a bit all over the shop.
You're always going to have your resident shit stirrers but here on Swellnet it's never too silly. Maybe a lot of people who jump on surf forums these days have evolved? By my own reasonably limited observation the guys that own and run Swellnet have done a fantastic job in keeping their forums sane. Less is demonstrably more. They are visible, accountable, passionate and professional and I think their light touch is possibly a little underappreciated. Keep it up boys, this is an awesome website.
Ben said it’s a surfing website, not a social responsibility website.
Something a bit meta happened with this one.
The lads do a great job.
If I see a thread blowing up I just skim over half a dozen posts until I see cooler heads contributing again. If I'm not the only one doing this, perhaps those who "lost it" might consider that (i.e. if they're thinking "F-yeah! This post will convince them all!"... probably not.
I'm gonna whack this post here, partly because it's a nice reminder to read back over what was happening at the start of Covid-19 (re: travel restrictions), and also because the post I'm responding to - from blindboy - will get lost in the noise in the original thread (page 204 of 'COVID-19 Health System Overload Forecaster').
And, I think the word 'fucken' looks great in print too (in moderation, of course).
So, here we go.
blindboy wrote:Andy, ethical publishers fact check. That is not censorship or illiberal, it is responsibility. If they publish something later found to be incorrect, they publish a correction. Swellnet refuses to acknowledge that it plays a role in distributing medical misinformation during a pandemic. There is no need to shut down the debate, they just have to delete the posts that are not factual. If they do not have the resources to do that then they should shut the forums as many other more responsible sites have done over the same issues.
You are correct on one count - Swellnet doesn't have the resources to set up a dedicated Fact Check unit, that reads every comment from every anonymous poster, researches the accuracy of each and every one of their claims, and then takes action based on what the research finds.
I don't know of any website in the world that does that, actually.
It's certainly not practical in the fast pace of real-time online conversations. ABC Fact Check had one for a couple of years, then it got lost to funding cuts. It's now back up and running as a JV with RMIT University, but even then with all of those (paid) resources, they're only researching half a dozen issues per month, almost all of 'em made by politicians.
"Sure, just delete the posts that are not factual", you say - but it's not that easy. Not only does it take time and effort, but how about the posts that are half interesting and factual, but contain one or more mistruths? Do we edit for context? Or just bulk-delete the lot? How do we know if they're fact or fiction, anyway? Most of the topics being discussed our way outside my area of expertise.
Anyway, deleting posts - especially if it's not done in near-real time - disrupts the flow of conversation and makes for difficult reading to those who arrive at the discussion well after the fact. It's not something I would like our forums to aspire to. Over time, I think the Swellnet forums have developed a useful level of self-moderation. Take a look around, where else in the surfing world is there a better place to discuss all kinds of issues with like-minded people?
Of course it could be much better. I've said it before (and apologies for the delay; it is happening behind the scenes) - but we're building some new moderation tools that - I think - will help to kerb some of the discussions that go over the rails. But, we'll have to wait and see if I'm correct (should be ready to go in the next month or two).
Otherwise, you're suggesting that the only option we have is to completely shut down the entire Swellnet forum, lest someone say something untruthful.
Oh, and we'll have to shut down comments across all Swellnet articles too. Because, we all know that the same ol' forum convos will simply transpose themselves to the next convenient environment. Even if it's wildy off topic.
Silencing the Swellnet community by way of shutting down the forums wouldn't be much of a win for society. And it won't fix the overarching problem either. Swellnet provides a platform for discussion that allows for robust debate, and allows people - myself included - to gain an appreciation of the other side's point of view. Even if I vehemently disagree with what a lot of gets written.
The funny thing is blindboy, you've previously been a big supporter of Swellnet's forum style and moderation. And ironically, I find myself personally agreeing with your views (in these forums) way more times often than not.
I appreciate that someone's opinion can change over time - as yours may have, about Swellnet - but I'm pretty sure our approach to moderation hasn't changed much (for better or for worse, of course). Certainly, the comment heat and rhetoric has turned up over the last couple of years thanks to Covid-19, and it's shitful to see some of the ridiculous stuff that people write. But, behind the scenes not much has changed in the last ten years.
But y'know what? Love it or hate it, that crazy conglomerate of the Swellnet forums is merely a reflection of the community, even if it's a sobering one. I've personally taken stock of my own viewpoints over the last five years and realised that there's a lot of people who think a lot differently to the way I do. Kinda scary, if I'm to be totally honest.
But, I'd be lesser man if I deleted someone's views because I didn't agree with them.
And I'd be ashamed if I had to close to Swellnet forums because it all got too fucken hard.
As for Swellnet "playing a role in distributing medical misinformation during a pandemic", well, that's nothing more than hyperbole in overdrive.
Surfing is a niche sport. The Swellnet audience is a fraction of the global participation numbers (35 million, Kelly will tell ya). And those people actually reading the Swellnet forums are a tiny fraction of that again - of which most participants are grown adults (even though they may not act as such), and should be able to make decisions for themselves.
Personally, I think there's probably more benefit in holding the government to account regarding the way it's handles its pandemic messaging, than closing down the Swellnet forums just so that a couple of grumpy weather-beaten surfers in remote country towns don't get the last say.
Covid...wow...could there ever be a better topic to create division, hysteria, anger etc
Turn off the TV...switch off the phone...go surfing...
Now...more than ever.
crg wrote:Covid...wow...could there ever be a better topic to create division, hysteria, anger etc
Turn off the TV...switch off the phone...go surfing...
Now...more than ever.
x2
Interesting to look back at when/why/how other websites removed comments from their sites. Such as Vice in 2016:
"Too often they devolve into racist, misogynistic maelstroms where the loudest, most offensive, and stupidest opinions get pushed to the top and the more reasoned responses drowned out in the noise. While we always welcomed your thoughts on how we are actually a right-wing mouthpiece for the CIA, or how much better we were before we sold our dickless souls to Rupert Murdoch, or just how shitty we are in general, we had to ban countless commenters over the years for threatening our writers and subjects, doxxing private citizens, and engaging in hate speech against pretty much every group imaginable."
https://www.vice.com/en/article/vvdjjy/were-getting-rid-of-comments-on-vice
I suppose Vice - with $1 billion revenue in 2016 - should have just deleted the posts that were not factual.
Or, were they one of the websites who "did not have the resources", so they "shut the forums as many other more responsible sites have done over the same issues"...?
Nah, turns out they just didn't like the shit-talk. Nothing high and mighty about it, really, just biz.
Plenty of forums just outright ban people and block their IP address too. Whirlpool is one, everyone here would be banned lol.
We've banned plenty of people.
Blocking IP addresses is a temp fix, doesn't always work.
Ben, like it or not you are a publisher. The laws may take a bit longer to clarify that but, legalistics aside, you are a publisher. You solicit contributions and use technogy to communicate them to a wide audience.....that's been the publishing business since the first printing press. You pay for some contributions but by opening a forum you are also soliciting contributions to them.
I first drew your attention to your unethical behaviour over the climate change forums in which you tolerated explicit climate change denialism with all its usual accompanying lies.
You have continued this absence of ethical behaviour through-out the pandemic and if you think this has had any kind of positive impact, then I consider you to be unforgivably naive. You created a breeding ground for the worst kind of anti-vax propaganda on a site used by many young people and many without the ability to sift the truth from the bullshit. If the attempt at self-justification you have posted above makes you feel better, fair enough, it does not exonerate you in my view, nor, as time goes on, in your own is my guess.
thermalben wrote:We've banned plenty of people.
Blocking IP addresses is a temp fix, doesn't always work.
So what do you have to do to be banned, not foul language, especially at other posters, not racism, not homophobia, from what i can see.
Do you refund subs lol.
blindboy wrote:Ben, like it or not you are a publisher. The laws may take a bit longer to clarify that but, legalistics aside, you are a publisher. You solicit contributions and use technogy to communicate them to a wide audience.....that's been the publishing business since the first printing press. You pay for some contributions but by opening a forum you are also soliciting contributions to them.
I first drew your attention to your unethical behaviour over the climate change forums in which you tolerated explicit climate change denialism with all its usual accompanying lies.
You have continued this absence of ethical behaviour through-out the pandemic and if you think this has had any kind of positive impact, then I consider you to be unforgivably naive. You created a breeding ground for the worst kind of anti-vax propaganda on a site used by many young people and many without the ability to sift the truth from the bullshit. If the attempt at self-justification you have posted above makes you feel better, fair enough, it does not exonerate you in my view, nor, as time goes on, in your own is my guess.
Get off here and do something about it then
I suggest anyone who doesn't vote ALP/Greens be banned for similar reasons to what BB said.
Quick! OMG!
Ban everyone!
BAN THEM NOW!!!!!!
(By the way, that's a gorgeous shade of salmon you're wearing in the vid below, Blindboy).
Good post thermalben (the first one)
Regarding Vice, i think Vice had to stop people commenting because half their articles have 50 comments calling out their bullshit and 100 saying Vice use to be good once.
You still see it under their Youtube videos.
They must be loving YouTube disabling thumbs downs though, some silly videos were getting ten times more thumbs downs than ups.
God Youtube disabling that feature sucks.
Blindboy, of course I know Swellnet is a publisher.
I acknowledge that you believe my behaviour is unethical. I disagree, but I'm more than happy for you to express your negative opinions of my business on my business' website.
As for Swellnet "tolerating explicit climate change denialism", again - hyperbole on overdrive. To the best of my knowledge, Swellnet has researched and published more articles about climate change than any other surfing publication in the world (print or online), and we're continuing to draw attention to a number of other environmental matters too.
I've outlined the measures I'd have to take to keep you happy (and you alone, it seems), and in my opinion the negatives far outweigh the positives.
Of course, if you don't feel comfortable commenting on Swellnet, you are always within your rights to start up your own surf website forum, and continue your discussions there. Or contribute to any other surfing website.
"To the best of my knowledge, Swellnet has researched and published more articles about climate change than any other surfing publication in the world (print or online), and we're continuing to draw attention to a number of other environmental matters too."
IMO the best surf publication around.
Good on you Ben, Stu, Craig and Steve.
I don't agree Blindboy. My belief is that most reasonably intelligent people are able to tell the difference between fact and fiction. If someone is the sort of person that gets their information on a topic like vaccinations from an Internet forum on a surfing website, then there's not much hope for them. No amount of censorship is going to fix that kind of stupid. At least with an open forum there's an opportunity for people to push back against the bullshit. As for me I prefer to stick to the truely important issues such as the leashless longboarding fools at Byron and JetSki fucktards at Kirra.
I think this is a great website and I enjoy reading and contributing to the forum. Long may it continue. Try not to over think things I reckon.
Robo wrote:thermalben wrote:We've banned plenty of people.
Blocking IP addresses is a temp fix, doesn't always work.
So what do you have to do to be banned, not foul language, especially at other posters, not racism, not homophobia, from what i can see.
Do you refund subs lol.
We don't read every post. If something bothers you, let us know and we'll take a look.
No, we don't refund subs, we merely ban people from commenting (for a short period of time).
Do you really want us to ban people for using 'foul language'?
OK then, for starters can you please send me through a list of all of the naughty words you'd like to never see again on the site, and the context they can (or can't) be used in.
"Can't" is top of the list Ben.
Filthy potty mouth.
Shit, Piss, Fuck, Cunt, Cocksucker, Motherfucker Tits. My brother likes to recite this list of words after a few beers. He reckons they're the seven dirty words you're not allowed to say on radio in The United States. It's probably bullshit, but it's great party trick. Maybe we should ban these from Swellnet. They're pretty rude aye. Very rude...
https://m.
&t=50s Righto. I foolishly didn't expect anyone to actually write their Top Ten.
Point being Robo, people swear in real life (and christ almighty, I've gonna tone it down meself sometimes, even just for the kids). As such this forum is a reflection of the general community, and their complex use of profanities.
But I agree, personal attacks are not cool. Play the ball, not the man, etc.
Top seven Ben. Evidently with everything else you're good to go.
I get mightily offended by the words poo, bum and wee.
Thank you.
You better shut down your business Ben, someone doesn't like it, they want an echo chamber and they expect you to provide it.
https://www.swellnet.com/comment/788659#comment-788659
Is there a word for someone who keeps visiting and participating in a site that he/she claims is perpetuating evil?
thermalben wrote:Robo wrote:thermalben wrote:We've banned plenty of people.
Blocking IP addresses is a temp fix, doesn't always work.
So what do you have to do to be banned, not foul language, especially at other posters, not racism, not homophobia, from what i can see.
Do you refund subs lol.We don't read every post. If something bothers you, let us know and we'll take a look.
No, we don't refund subs, we merely ban people from commenting (for a short period of time).
Do you really want us to ban people for using 'foul language'?
OK then, for starters can you please send me through a list of all of the naughty words you'd like to never see again on the site, and the context they can (or can't) be used in.
Now your being smart, here’s one CUNT, not directed at you, it’s all over the forums, I mean who even uses that word anymore in real life.
Brainiacs like Susie
Great post @4:21pm Ben. Thanks for keeping it real and transparent.
Classic Spuddups and hat tip to Andy for rounding out that Top 10.
I love the discussion and discourse on here. It’s one of very few worthwhile (to me) spaces on the internet that i spend time reviewing views and opinions of others (social media is absolute tripe 95% of the time)
I think opportunities for good discussion are increasingly rare and the freedom to participate in this space with other surfers of the ocean is a positive
Let it roll swellnet team
Blindboy if you are worried about youngsters misinterpreting and being swayed by the opinion on this site I think you are off target. The pervasive and insidious aspects of mainstream social media and their associated narcissistic algorithms alongside addictive technologies like YouTube and gaming ensures swellnet pales in comparison as a threat to livelihoods of the tech generation.
Focus your energies elsewhere
Spuddups wrote:Shit, Piss, Fuck, Cunt, Cocksucker, Motherfucker Tits. My brother likes to recite this list of words after a few beers. He reckons they're the seven dirty words you're not allowed to say on radio in The United States. It's probably bullshit, but it's great party trick. Maybe we should ban these from Swellnet. They're pretty rude aye. Very rude...
Bit much to hold the Swellnet forums to standards of Victorian gentility when one of the fancy arsed bourgeois Parisian papers is happy to
publish the potty mouthed rantings of the French president.
I had a teacher who repeated Eton's motto (I think it was) ad nauseam: Manners mayketh man. She'd be turning in her grave.
OK, let's all take a deep breath.
Swellnet is a surfing website. We provide surf reports, forecasts, surfcams and surf editorial. The content is updated daily, so you lot keep coming back daily to read, watch and interact. We've been doing this for exactly eighteen years.
We've also got a robust community. And there's a lot of opinions out there. That's great.
Gotta say, I don't agree with more than half of the stuff that gets posted, but I feel that surfers are a unique cross section of the community, and therefore our forums offer a glimpse into just how diverse the world is that we live in.
That's the reason why we are very flexible in our moderation.
To simply delete comments we didn't like would be to live in a bubble of self reinforcement; an echo chamber. Not only would that become terribly boring after a while, it wouldn't be a true reflection of the surf community. Like it or not, there are a lot of surfers with wildy different ideas about how the world should be. I've certainly paused, or even altered my own thoughts following some discussions in our forums.
So, we tolerate - no, we encourage - everyone's opinion.
Because, everyone is entitled to have their own say, and be allowed the opportunity to debate their opinion - and that of others - in a safe environment.
And, I don't have a problem with colourful language as long as it's in context, and not a personal attack.
But, we won't put up with bullshit anymore. Yeah, we've said this before, and I admit - we've let quite a few threads get out of hand, and a few personalities override unrelated discussions.
My excuse for that has previously been that the Swellnet forums are a very small part of our website, and therefore receive a proportional amount of resources (i.e. bugger all). The forums generate zero income for the business so it's pretty hard to justify spending money on 'em.
Many, many websites have reached this point over the last few years, and simply pulled out the plug on their communities - or worse, redirected everyone over to their Facebook page.
I totally get it, too. Forum communities can be to hard to deal with, and there's absolutely no financial benefit in keeping them running. We could certainly be spending our time working on the more important parts of the business.
But, in a world where minority views are becoming harder to hear through mainstream news channels, and social media is nothing but a noisy, self indulgent shit-show, I'd like to think that the Swellnet forums can be a place where we can discuss a wide range of topics with a bunch of people who we may not know by face, but have a common denominator: the surf.
I suppose it's a level of acknowledgement: I may disagree with your views on this topic, but we all understand the anticipation of a new south swell at sixteen seconds.
So, please have another look at the Code Of Conduct rules (here). Please don't attack or threaten anyone personally. Please respect other people's opinions.
Thanks for listening. And thanks for your contributions.