The United States(!) of A
“If Israel doesn't go ahead they look like the bad guy and then it just divides people in Israel, divides people in the west, causes friction between Israel & USA etc”
Indo, I would argue this is already the case. Actually I don’t think you can argue against this anymore.
seeds wrote:“If Israel doesn't go ahead they look like the bad guy and then it just divides people in Israel, divides people in the west, causes friction between Israel & USA etc”
Indo, I would argue this is already the case. Actually I don’t think you can argue against this anymore.
What has Israel actually achieved?
Safety/ security? Nup.
Become a world pariah, except for a few lackey states? Yep.
Young citizens who are War criminals who will not be able to travel anywhere, except maybe USA? Yep, plenty of evidence there, they personally posted the crimes. International legal groups will go after them.
I could go on.....
Wait until investigations start in Gaza and the world becomes really aware of what took/ is taking place and how the USA under Biden administration helped the genocide.
Books will be written, documentaries made, no escaping or hasbara 'ing' that.
US 60 Minutes have already done show, the tide has turned.
What will further slaughter achieve?
seeds wrote:“If Israel doesn't go ahead they look like the bad guy and then it just divides people in Israel, divides people in the west, causes friction between Israel & USA etc”
Indo, I would argue this is already the case. Actually I don’t think you can argue against this anymore.
Israeli's are divided because they want both the hostages home but also the threat of Hamas removed, it's almost an impossibility to do both and then they have a leader who was already unpopular with other issues. (although his popularity and support has risen quite a bit since dealing with Hezbollah)
Yes in the West there is more division than ever but most people dont see Israel as the bad guys and certainly dont see Hamas as the good guys, even if people dont like the results of war most people see and understand things for what they are a western aly country fighting back against terrorist that call themselves Jihadist that invaded murdered thousand's, raped, and kidnapped hundreds of Israeli's and still hold over one hundred captive.
It would have to be the largest and longest kid napping in modern developed world history?
After one of the biggest terrorist attacks in history, based in population something like 30 times bigger than 9/11
It's not the number one issue, but Trump vs Kamala's stance on things didnt help Kamala it only helped Trump and when Trump say's there will be all hell to pay if the hostages aren't released, he is telling the majority of voters what they want to hear.
Of course if you are using some bizare anti Israel website called "electronic infada" then yeah your perceptive is going to be very different, even if you are using more seemingly moderate more mainstream news sources like Al Jazeera, your still digesting pure propaganda a media origination that has been banned in half the middle east, including, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Egypt, Jordan the UAEm Bangladesh, Israel and. recently by the Palestine authority in the West Bank(Judea & Samaria,)
It's been banned in these countries because of links and support for groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthi's etc and because of the misinformation it spreads and violence etc that it inflames
It's insane to think that it's basically a pro Hamas/Palestine islamic jihad,/Hezbollah/Houthi's channel run by Qatar a country that also harbours Hamas leaders, yet this country is also the one acting as the negotiator, as far from a neutral party as can be, it would be like the Collingwood cheers squad umpiring Collingwood games.
andy-mac wrote:seeds wrote:“If Israel doesn't go ahead they look like the bad guy and then it just divides people in Israel, divides people in the west, causes friction between Israel & USA etc”
Indo, I would argue this is already the case. Actually I don’t think you can argue against this anymore.
What has Israel actually achieved?
Safety/ security? Nup.
Become a world pariah, except for a few lackey states? Yep.
Young citizens who are War criminals who will not be able to travel anywhere, except maybe USA? Yep, plenty of evidence there, they personally posted the crimes. International legal groups will go after them.
I could go on.....Wait until investigations start in Gaza and the world becomes really aware of what took/ is taking place and how the USA under Biden administration helped the genocide.
Books will be written, documentaries made, no escaping or hasbara 'ing' that.US 60 Minutes have already done show, the tide has turned.
What will further slaughter achieve?
Dude Israel has flipped the whole game board and changed the middle east forever.
Before Iran had built up a ring of fire around Israel. with Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthi's and other groups like Palestine Islam Jihad trying to strangle them.
Hezbollah was always considered the biggest threat, they and the USA always thought a war with them would see thousands of deaths in Israel, USA advised against going after Hezbollah
But Israel took a chance and severally wounded them even taking out top leader Hassan Nasrallah and pretty much every leader under him, and taking out most of their rocket stock.
They also prevented the much bigger operation of "Conquer the Galilee" a planed attack by Hezbollah similar to 7th October that would have been even bigger.
This all helped the fall of Asad in Syria, and has cut off Iran's supply route to Hezbollah in Lebanon.
Then in Gaza, Hamas have gone from a organised funded army like terrorist group with battalions and leaders, to an organised guerrilla army, with all key leaders taken out including Sinwar in Gaza and Ismail Haniyeh in Iran, Hamas barely have any rockets left, and wont be able to restock too easily in the future.
And it's far from over in Gaza, even after phase three of ceasefire (if things ever get that far) comes negotiation's to end the war.(or maybe thats part of phase three)
Gaza and Hamas are also only one aspect of the much bigger picture, the main player is Iran or more to the point the Government the Islamic Republic of Iran
Apart from the deterrent effect of fighting back against an enemy and showing what will happen if you choose to fuck with us and showing how Asad can infiltrate an enemy with assassinations in Iran and Lebanon and Pager attack etc
Basically:
1. Threat of Hezbollah severally diminished and unlikely to ever be able to rebuild to the strength they once were.
2. Threat from Iran in the short term neutralised, and Iran now very vulnerable to
an attack with minimal air defence system left, the nuclear threat with Iran does remain though.
3. Threat of Hamas has been severely minimised, another 7th Oct will never happen, and Hamas barely have any rockets left.
There will be a new buffer zone created and a better security system, and Israel will never underestimate the possibility of another similar 7th Oct attack.
Also this is a ceasefire its not an end to the war just yet, that comes last with negotiations, that might not happen.
Israel will most likely still control aspects of the Rafa crossing or Philedelphia corridor.
4. Houthis are probably the least dealt with, they aren't just a threat to Israel though, their attacks cause issues for all countries shipping and Egypt has lost big money revenue from disruption to shipping, so will support Israel in that venture.
5. Syria future threat unknown, but all the major of chemical weapons and Syria army, navy, airforce pretty much destroyed so cant be used by a new Jihadi group or government.
And what did Hamas achieve from 7th Oct?
Death and destruction to their own state, and some nutters in the west now thinking it's cool to hate on Israel yeah great job well done.
Indo writing about isreal again.
https://media2.giphy.com/media/l0HlTBJ2VAsXdJu24/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b9520...
I thought Indos summary was spot on.
It is more important to everyone on earth than most realise.
'And what did Hamas achieve from 7th Oct?
Death and destruction to their own state, and some nutters in the west now thinking it's cool to hate on Israel yeah great job well done.'
Exactly. There should be massive resentment in Gaza towards Hamas for initiating the misery they have had to endure, but with the brainwashing of Islamic ideology, probably not.
F off, you’re all smart on your way out. Why didn’t you do something about it?
flollo wrote:F off, you’re all smart on your way out. Why didn’t you do something about it?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DE5HbagvOQD/?igsh=b2szNjA5ZmtqZm9s
Reckon Americans need to be on their guard about recent developments, however when Biden said that my first thought was the decades-long link between the Democrats and both Hollywood money and Silicon Valley money.
Biden warning people about getting corrupted by rich people was a bit rich.
flollo wrote:F off, you’re all smart on your way out. Why didn’t you do something about it?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DE5HbagvOQD/?igsh=b2szNjA5ZmtqZm9s
+1
indo-dreaming wrote:andy-mac wrote:seeds wrote:“If Israel doesn't go ahead they look like the bad guy and then it just divides people in Israel, divides people in the west, causes friction between Israel & USA etc”
Indo, I would argue this is already the case. Actually I don’t think you can argue against this anymore.
What has Israel actually achieved?
Safety/ security? Nup.
Become a world pariah, except for a few lackey states? Yep.
Young citizens who are War criminals who will not be able to travel anywhere, except maybe USA? Yep, plenty of evidence there, they personally posted the crimes. International legal groups will go after them.
I could go on.....Wait until investigations start in Gaza and the world becomes really aware of what took/ is taking place and how the USA under Biden administration helped the genocide.
Books will be written, documentaries made, no escaping or hasbara 'ing' that.US 60 Minutes have already done show, the tide has turned.
What will further slaughter achieve?
Dude Israel has flipped the whole game board and changed the middle east forever.
Before Iran had built up a ring of fire around Israel. with Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthi's and other groups like Palestine Islam Jihad trying to strangle them.
Hezbollah was always considered the biggest threat, they and the USA always thought a war with them would see thousands of deaths in Israel, USA advised against going after Hezbollah
But Israel took a chance and severally wounded them even taking out top leader Hassan Nasrallah and pretty much every leader under him, and taking out most of their rocket stock.
They also prevented the much bigger operation of "Conquer the Galilee" a planed attack by Hezbollah similar to 7th October that would have been even bigger.
This all helped the fall of Asad in Syria, and has cut off Iran's supply route to Hezbollah in Lebanon.
Then in Gaza, Hamas have gone from a organised funded army like terrorist group with battalions and leaders, to an organised guerrilla army, with all key leaders taken out including Sinwar in Gaza and Ismail Haniyeh in Iran, Hamas barely have any rockets left, and wont be able to restock too easily in the future.
And it's far from over in Gaza, even after phase three of ceasefire (if things ever get that far) comes negotiation's to end the war.(or maybe thats part of phase three)
Gaza and Hamas are also only one aspect of the much bigger picture, the main player is Iran or more to the point the Government the Islamic Republic of Iran
Apart from the deterrent effect of fighting back against an enemy and showing what will happen if you choose to fuck with us and showing how Asad can infiltrate an enemy with assassinations in Iran and Lebanon and Pager attack etc
Basically:
1. Threat of Hezbollah severally diminished and unlikely to ever be able to rebuild to the strength they once were.
2. Threat from Iran in the short term neutralised, and Iran now very vulnerable to
an attack with minimal air defence system left, the nuclear threat with Iran does remain though.3. Threat of Hamas has been severely minimised, another 7th Oct will never happen, and Hamas barely have any rockets left.
There will be a new buffer zone created and a better security system, and Israel will never underestimate the possibility of another similar 7th Oct attack.
Also this is a ceasefire its not an end to the war just yet, that comes last with negotiations, that might not happen.
Israel will most likely still control aspects of the Rafa crossing or Philedelphia corridor.
4. Houthis are probably the least dealt with, they aren't just a threat to Israel though, their attacks cause issues for all countries shipping and Egypt has lost big money revenue from disruption to shipping, so will support Israel in that venture.
5. Syria future threat unknown, but all the major of chemical weapons and Syria army, navy, airforce pretty much destroyed so cant be used by a new Jihadi group or government.
And what did Hamas achieve from 7th Oct?
Death and destruction to their own state, and some nutters in the west now thinking it's cool to hate on Israel yeah great job well done.
Maybe what you say is all true, but others have a very different interpretation.
Some are commenting that the cease fire deal is so Israel and USA can focus on striking Iran.
We shall see.
I will be very surprised if cease fire deal goes ahead in full, my reasoning for this breakdown is different to yours but same end result, more death and destruction.
Edit: just read deal has been agree to.
Hope it can hold and a unlikely path to peace can be found.
Sorry, just need to interject on something that caught my eye....
@indo wrote "it would be like the collingwood cheersquad umpiring Collingwood games".
Well!!!! Hmmm. They bloody well do influence the umpires!!! Umps are terrified of the collingwood army.
Anyway, carry on.
southernraw wrote:Sorry, just need to interject on something that caught my eye....
@indo wrote "it would be like the collingwood cheersquad umpiring Collingwood games".
Well!!!! Hmmm. They bloody well do influence the umpires!!! Umps are terrified of the collingwood army.
Anyway, carry on.
You’re so right @southernraw, besides 17th Jan is a perfect time to start the footy chatter off … the Centrelink walk of shame :)
https://www.tiktok.com/@collingwoodfc/video/7265987675784580354
So they lost the starship, but gotta admit, that booster on landing approach (43:30 in vid above) was everything I thought the 21st century would look like when I was a kid.
GuySmiley wrote:southernraw wrote:Sorry, just need to interject on something that caught my eye....
@indo wrote "it would be like the collingwood cheersquad umpiring Collingwood games".
Well!!!! Hmmm. They bloody well do influence the umpires!!! Umps are terrified of the collingwood army.
Anyway, carry on.You’re so right @southernraw, besides 17th Jan is a perfect time to start the footy chatter off
Call bullshit on this.
They are wearing yellow and black on the MCG.
Umpires or not.
Nothing wearing yellow and black on the MCG has ever in the history of history, ever, repeat EVER!, been intimidated by the fkn Collingwood Army.
So you can both halt that shit right now thankyou very much @Southern and @Guy
Just had to get that off my chest.
Carry on.
velocityjohnno wrote:So they lost the starship, but gotta admit, that booster on landing approach (43:30 in vid above) was everything I thought the 21st century would look like when I was a kid.
Yes very cool recovery of the booster but you wouldn’t want to be in their astronaut training program, Columbia ptsd flashbacks.
Btw, Musk clearly doesn’t mind burning up heaps of money on this project, doesn’t bode well for his new role.
adam12 wrote:GuySmiley wrote:southernraw wrote:Sorry, just need to interject on something that caught my eye....
@indo wrote "it would be like the collingwood cheersquad umpiring Collingwood games".
Well!!!! Hmmm. They bloody well do influence the umpires!!! Umps are terrified of the collingwood army.
Anyway, carry on.You’re so right @southernraw, besides 17th Jan is a perfect time to start the footy chatter off
Call bullshit on this.
They are wearing yellow and black on the MCG.
Umpires or not.
Nothing wearing yellow and black on the MCG has ever in the history of history, ever, repeat EVER!, been intimidated by the fkn Collingwood Army.
So you can both halt that shit right now thankyou very much @Southern and @GuyJust had to get that off my chest.
Carry on.
Might have been 3 flags gifted to a certain yellow and black too based on similar circumstances now i think of it @adam12. Hmm. Glad you reminded me!! Bloody tiger army. Boo!
Yes GS. I'd be happy if they started the season now!!
And there is no home team advantage at Optus Stadium, the Gabba or the Adelaide Oval @SR? Perth stadium is known as the “Boo factory” to those from the east, . Methinks you protest too much. However, bring it on. Go Tiges!!
It's funny how other teams fans think Collingwood get special treatment from umpires, but Collingwood fans swear black and blue they get hard done by especially by certain umpires, Stevic was a big one.
Im sure it's the same for every team but my social media Collingwood page feed after a loss is flooded with comments blaming the umps and thinking that somehow free's should be equal at the end of the game.
haha. I'm a Bombers fan @blackers. We're the wounded ones, striking out at everyone.
But true true about the WA fans. Get pretty feral, especially that Freo mob! hehe.
True @indo. You'll be happy to know i just allowed a pies fan into my house.
Baby steps!!
blackers wrote:velocityjohnno wrote:So they lost the starship, but gotta admit, that booster on landing approach (43:30 in vid above) was everything I thought the 21st century would look like when I was a kid.
Yes very cool recovery of the booster but you wouldn’t want to be in their astronaut training program, Columbia ptsd flashbacks.
Btw, Musk clearly doesn’t mind burning up heaps of money on this project, doesn’t bode well for his new role.
Isn’t that the whole point of Elon the Idealist’s new role? More money for him to burn up. The budget and power of the U.S Federal Government as uber venture capitalist, the enabler of his philanthropic utopian trans-humanist vision. For the benefit of the Earth and planets beyond. And you know, control the agencies, control anti-trust and government contracts and shit - control your rivals.
‘Cos Bezos himself just chucked his first one up into orbit. One for one, he is. Elon won’t like that. Look out Jeffy (Exocetjeff?), lest you get DOGEd.
Musk and Bezos, both now bending the knee in service of the nascent Trump Dynasty’s largesse. They’ve Shifted ‘cos they know the Shift is real, long term. And they'll use their powers to make it so. They've made it their interest.
Space X v. Blue Origin. The stakes are intergalactic in proportion. Between them they already have assets, means of communication, means of exchange, worthy of a sovereign nation. And now they see that they could have it all. That they could be The One. Oligarchy indeed. We're fast moving beyond that hoary old anachronism.
And really, they both control an arsenal worthy of a superpower. Wouldn’t take much to turn one of those rockets into an ICBM or a big bloody bomb. For that matter, Boeing is losing money by the billion. With all those defence contracts, why wouldn’t Elon suggest that his powers be expanded slightly, so that he might find particular efficiencies there too? Not like Heggsy would mind. Or that he’d even know where his trillion dollar budget’s going. As if the fella hasn’t got enough happening, what with de-transing the army, getting down for 3 sets of 47, and working a bit on his geography. Be glad of Elon's help.
It’s a core MAGA principal after all - reign in the warmongers and warprofiteers like Boeing, who propagate endless war. Space X could, at the bare minimum, do as Elon’s title suggests, and manufacture WOMD more efficiently than Boeing. What great benefits that might bring. And it’s not like this would be against trend. It’s indeed Elon that’ll be giving the stranded U.S. astronauts a ride back from the ISS after Boeing’s bird botched it.
Wouldn’t dare suggest that either bro has any psychopathic or megalomaniacal tendencies, that either might be prone to spitting the dummy if made to look like a loser, if compelled to genuflect as the other is crowned King of the World. But both have in the past professed a proclivity for moving fast and breaking things. The End Times Apocalypse might not arise from a pickle between nation states, it just might turn out to be Armageddon by disruptor.
End of the World or not, I'm hoping for Elon. At least he believes in something.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx24eg7z7zgo
https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhartung/2024/09/13/will-donald-trump...
Ah that explains everything SR. Carry on
southernraw wrote:haha. I'm a Bombers fan @blackers. We're the wounded ones, striking out at everyone.
But true true about the WA fans. Get pretty feral, especially that Freo mob! hehe.
True @indo. You'll be happy to know i just allowed a pies fan into my house.
Baby steps!!
Bro and I were Cats fans growing up in the west, lots of heartbreak. And then they came good in 2007. Bro loves a fight and bought both Cats and Freo membership, when they played in Perth he was only one in Freo members section in Cats gear, pushed it, nearly got punched quite a few times, especially as Cats won that day. Did same trick in a Rockingham pub and was rewarded with a king hit on the street when he left.
Not just boos, the heckling can be pretty full on, he has taunted Eagles stars so hard they've individually flipped him the bird from the ground while playing. He also says the footballs landing in the goal area hitting fans who aren't watching in the head is pretty good sport. Me, I just surf these days and couldn't tell you much about footy.
haha! Well played @blackers.
velocityjohnno wrote:southernraw wrote:haha. I'm a Bombers fan @blackers. We're the wounded ones, striking out at everyone.
But true true about the WA fans. Get pretty feral, especially that Freo mob! hehe.
True @indo. You'll be happy to know i just allowed a pies fan into my house.
Baby steps!!Bro and I were Cats fans growing up in the west, lots of heartbreak. And then they came good in 2007. Bro loves a fight and bought both Cats and Freo membership, when they played in Perth he was only one in Freo members section in Cats gear, pushed it, nearly got punched quite a few times, especially as Cats won that day. Did same trick in a Rockingham pub and was rewarded with a king hit on the street when he left.
Not just boos, the heckling can be pretty full on, he has taunted Eagles stars so hard they've individually flipped him the bird from the ground while playing. He also says the footballs landing in the goal area hitting fans who aren't watching in the head is pretty good sport. Me, I just surf these days and couldn't tell you much about footy.
Shit, i think there's some footage of your bro and Flyin Ryan from yesterday doing the rounds VJ!! ;-)
Cats are my second team,...mostly my first these days as they can actually win finals!
blackers wrote:Yes very cool recovery of the booster but you wouldn’t want to be in their astronaut training program, Columbia ptsd flashbacks.
Btw, Musk clearly doesn’t mind burning up heaps of money on this project, doesn’t bode well for his new role.
It's the fanboys that are the most fascinating. On launch they cheer, as it gets up into space they cheer more, as it catches fire they say how beautiful the flames look, as it disintegrates they say it's an awesome learning opportunity, only way is up. If anyone says "Hey it crashed," they get a pile on of "Don't be a negative nancy!" And then the froth for the next launch begins. Good on SpaceX though, they will get there.
southernraw wrote:Shit, i think there's some footage of your bro and Flyin Ryan from yesterday doing the rounds VJ!! ;-)
Cats are my second team,...mostly my first these days as they can actually win finals!
There was a WC forward they used to scream "Who ate all the pies?" to, lol
Gotta b Sumich ;-)
Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank