Shame you only had time to skim the surface of such an important and interesting topic for surfers .. I imagine it’d be appropriate for many on Swellnet.

Thanks

weights/push-ups/dips one day, 4-6k run the next day. repeat.

This is a great article and more please SN.

Recently I've just been working and working and it's encroached on my surfing. Sometimes I can't string a wave together and it's frustrating me.

At 52 I try and do 150 push-ups after I get back from my 3 k brisk walk with the mutt. I do this every day but something is not right. I try and eat well but something is obviously missing.

Such a great topic to get into - more of this please - for all us desk jockeys.

Great article.

I moved from Melbourne to the Tweed Coast 3 years ago, went from surfing 1-2 times per month to 4-5 times per week, without any proper preparation, and of course within 6 months my lower back blew out. Spent the next 3 months out of the water. Since recovering from that, I've discovered - thanks to good advice from my Physio - the benefits of Pilates. I now do 3x 1-hour sessions per week and feel fitter and stronger in the water than I did in my 20's. I'm 49 now.

I find it much easer just to buy a Board with more volume every year
& when you get to the stage you need to ride longboard ya know its time to retire .

I think everyone who searches, finds something different, something unique.

And if you can find what works for you, then you are golden.

A little golden key for me was "surfing to keep the blade sharp". I found myself enjoying less and less the mostly crappy beach break surf we get over summer.
So I'd either surf it more and get frustrated and feel like my skills were going backwards, or I'd shine it and my "surf blade" would get dull.

Now I have a foamy. Every day I surf. I surf for ten minutes, five minutes whatever.
Only rule is 3 waves, ridden however I want to, on my knees, guts, standing up.
If it's the absolute worst NE slop I'll ride 3 whitewaters like a backpacker.
And 3 times 20 seconds of the hardest paddling I can do. Lung busting paddling.

I found that keeps the blade sharp so when a surf day comes, of whatever dimensions, I'm ready to go and I haven't wasted hours and hours surfing slop I'm not that interested in.

Also. going from a foamy with soft fins to a proper board feels amazing, like taking the hand brake off.

Clean diet, very little booze.

That is awesome Free. And good advice from all above.

If he has time, it would be good to hear from MB on this one.

PS- what are inflammatory foods? Please don't say fried chicken, I'm begging you.

Haha! He's going to say fried chicken, beer and indian takeaway.

Some good stuff there.

I liked the advice about not overcooking it. I did after we came out of lockdown, ironically on tiny longboard waves. I was so desperate and surf-starved that for two weeks of tiny surf I just went mental on my log, paddling down any 1ft wave I could find.

My shoulders got inflamed and sore, and then I started surfing like crap on good waves and feeling anxious and kooky.

Got my mind back in order, started working on my paddling technique, and on strengthening my rotator-cuff muscles.

Great article!

Can highly, highly recommend Cris. Did the coaching trip in the Ments with Cris, Clay and Shane. I had high expectations but all three of those gents greatly exceeded them.

I've found that a "gentle" long-term holistic lifestyle approach is needed to stay in shape to surf every day when the surf is good, or to surf at a decent level of intensity and skill after long flat spells, and not be out of action afterwards or sustain an injury:

- regular exercise (no more than 2 days off between moderate exercise),

- variety and diversity in exercise (options include surfing, SUP paddling, light weights, jogging, swimming, bodysurfing, cycling, punching bag, hiking/mountain climbing, etc),

- warm up/down and stretch properly before and after any form of exercise,

- healthy mostly plant based diet, food variety and diversity, high fibre, what you don't eat is equally important, always eat less than you think,

- proper sleep, recovery and relaxation time, exercising every day can cause injury

- limit and reduce stress, worry and anger etc,

- drinking, smoking and drugs won't help...

I remember a section in a surf mag where Fanning was taking his training very seriously(early 2000's) and he would write down absolutely every thing he ate for a month and would write down how he felt next day, heartburn,more energy,less energy, feeling heavy/light etc etc and would see links for different foods he ate
i did this too and found many foods gave me heartburn and cut most carbs, pasta,weetbix and high sugar fruits. Well worth a look and U can clearly see the links that what affected my energy levels

What about the prep undertaken by 90 percent of middle aged blokes for a Ments trip :

Swear to get fit and off the beers 6 months before the trip. Great excuse to get stuck into the healthy program you’ve been putting off for ever.

Continue drinking. Remain unfit.

Swear to get into it for sure with the 3 month countdown approaching - 6 months was probably unrealistic anyway. Time to get focussed !

Continue drinking. Remain unfit.

1 month till shipping out ! Fuck ! Cutting it close but it’s still doable. A lot can be achieved in a month. Better order a couple of new boards to increase the urgency and make the change happen.

Continue drinking. Remain unfit.

Two weeks till takeoff ! Holy shit ....where’d the time go ? Still getting stuck into after work bevvies and no one can train with a gut full of beer. This week it happens ! Got to chase up that shaper too, he never got back to me after I left that message on his phone about those boards I wanted .

Continue drinking. Remain unfit.

Jeeezarz.....me and the boys leave this time next week and I’m heavier than ever and the shaper still hasn’t gotten back to me !

Take three days off the piss. No exercise.

Shit....we’re out of here on Friday. Got to meet Johhno after work and hit the retail surf shop to pick up a couple of new sleds cause that shaper bastard never even started my boards. Better not drive. We’ll probably end up at the pub and meet the boys to discuss the logistics of the trip in detail .

Continue drinking. Actively becoming less fit.

Meet the boys at the airport - Who wants a beer ? Not everyday you’re off to the best waves in the world with the best crew in the universe . Cheers lads !

Day one on the boat ....drinking in Padang. Drinking in port. Drinking on the way out to the islands.

Day two . Surf pumping. Who’d have thought perfect waves could be such hard work and so frustrating ? Paddle up hill for three hours ....utterly rooted tired and 2nd degree sunburn. Beers on the back deck.

Day three . Surf big and heavy. Winded after a couple of sheepish takeoffs and a proper hold down. Beers on back deck for the debrief.

Day four . Surf still big but getting manageable. Tired , sore , stiff and generally fucked over. Get out there and pick a few . Couple of beers . Sleep like the dead.

Day five. Up early . Finding a couple of moments of grace amongst the fun waves. Two sessions. Still bit stiff , still bit tired.

Day six . Dying swell at the magnet. Crowded. Get a few from the pack . Couple of highlights. One hit felt really sweet. Taste the old magic.

Day seven.Flat day . Fishing , diving and on the tins.

Day eight - day ten . Feeling stronger. Shorts feel a bit looser . Skin a shade or two darker. Finding a bit of rhythm out there. Stringing a few turns together. Couple of compliments from the hard to please companions. Getting praise is like pulling teeth but they can’t deny what they saw ...don’t call it a comeback.

Day eleven. Back to port . Talk shit . Big smiles . On the sauce.

Two weeks later. Call the boys and start setting dates for next year. Write it on the calendar. Flick back 6 pages and write - “ Six month countdown to Ments.....get fit now !!!”

Grab a beer and flick on the Tele. Happy.

Not sure about stretching before surf. I thought it was better to warmup (jog to the sand etc) maybe some ballistic stuff. Then stretch after surf if you want.

Nice work Blowin. That was a good read.

As for me, well I do absolutely no surf training other than gardening and walking the kids to school. I am however a builder, so I find 8hrs a day climbing up and down ladders, carrying timber, banging in nails etc etc is pretty good for my general fitness, particularly core strength, balance and endurance. Probably not so good for flexibility, but I’m naturally fairly flexible so no real issues there yet.

The determining factor to how well I’m surfing has to do with how much surfing I’m doing. Went out last weekend for my first real blow out for a month and I must confess I was not surfing very well. Earlier in the year however I was surfing all the time and was feeling as good at 48 as I did at 28. They tell me this all changes in your 50s - in that training becomes essential, but I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Island Bay has ten years on me and he’s still ripping, so that’s the benchmark.

I’m late 40s , medical specialist, stressful job at times, long hours unpredictable. Plenty of desk work, indoors. Should be a disaster

But I get in the water daily , swim surf paddleboard SUP kayak whatever. My focus is hours at the wheel. In the dark, early dawn , whenever I can. A bit of a drink here and there and a clean diet mostly .

I try to give a lot to others , I guess it’s the job. But also beyond that, community and internationally. Providing and giving creates such happiness and peace .

I’m fitter and stronger than ever, rarely sore and stiff. Surfed almost all this year and no injuries

I believe it’s part body and part mind . Get the mind right the body can follow . Get the body right , the mind follows.

I’ll be following the surf coach though! 50s and 60s sound rougher ...

“I used to body surf and ocean swim. Feels too sharky now to enjoy it.”

Not too bad if you’ve got protection

Cris is an advocate of Foundation Training. He also has some classic rants on FB and Insta - the stuff he says seems to make sense - to me at least. Foundation is something I've used on and off for back pain and basically decompressing my body. It uses breath and some unusual but highly effective poses and holds. A kind of yoga / pilates mix but a lot different. Leads to a lot of strength. I wish I had kept it up. Time to stop thinking about it and get back on the horse. Anyone else had success with Foundation training? Definitely worth a try.

https://www.foundationtraining.com/

Blowin when I go to the Mets I am relying on the boys following that preparation Ha.

Great thread ... +1 for more on this topic and in more depth -

if anyone can recommend a good text on anti-inflammatory diets or approaches ... I’ve looked around and there’s a lot but it seems kinda mixed and at times contradictory

+51 yoa - pretty disciplined about training with good surf specific trainers, lived pretty clean ... I s’pose I’m doing ok but it’s not easy as the years go by that’s for sure

DR Rhonda Patrick - found my fitness.com

'If he has time, it would be good to hear from MB on this one.'

Are you sure about that Zen?

Lots to like about the article, recovery, nutrition, and yes the lies and desperation of the fitness industry, promising 12 weeks to a new you, which is actually now way too long, 2 weeks has become the new lie. Its the norm though, competition, the economy must survive, and of course there's the economic performance, and yes, the economy, and well, profit and survival, and yes the economy. Consumers forever.

I like that Laird trained hard, but in saying that I have zilch interest in having a completely avoidable hip replacement like Laird. Thanks, but naaah, no thanks.

Surfing isn't remotely good for long term health and fitness. Conversely, if you surf a lot, and want to keep surfing a lot, as the trainer says, you need to do a considerable amount of corrective, balancing work to counteract the detrimental effects of surfing.

I get besieged weekly by injured surfers wanting help. Even a glimpse through this website shows stuffed backs and shoulders are most common, very common. Guaranteed.

When I commented on here years ago, about my now dead, good friend, who saved the careers of Waugh, Meninga, Cash and Carrol, core, savvy, underground, swillnutter local Udo, went totally bonkers, aka, high level, hysterically, stark raving swillnutty, claiming it was a pack of lies.

Jesus ran out of visine.

Thinking of the resources, reach and contacts Waugh, Meninga, Cash, and to a lesser extent Carrol had, it is worth noting that Nigel did this when all other avenues had been exhausted, and the careers were supposedly over. Plus he did it when Carrol was at a far less than ideal, yet infamous point in his career, which was very frustrating for my friend. One of the surfing mags, maybe Tracks, did a major feature on him. I spoke to him the night before he died, and it was sad, he was extremely disallussioned and bitter. If you have been in the fitness world as long as me, you would realise his results weren't welcomed at all, as they threatened the ego's and wallets of the obviously failed specialists, and he used techniques that they truly had no idea about.

No top athletes in any sport, or pass times like surfing retire in an incredible state of health and fitness. They retire crippled from their chronically unbalanced endeavours.

I mentioned shoulders and backs, especially lower backs, in surfing. A no brainer re injuries if you understand the movement patterns, and thus developed and reinforced habits, thus the wheel, the cycle.

Pay attention. Perhaps look away. Perhaps reach for google .Perhaps hurl the fish baton. This is common knowledge if you have real, genuine experience in long term fitness training, which is just long term health. Once again...

'I mentioned shoulders and backs, especially lower backs, in surfing. A no brainer re injuries if you understand the movement patterns and thus developed and reinforced habits, the wheel, the cycle.'

Of course surfers should be able to swim. However knowing the above, and also the below (which again, is common knowledge amongst fitness professionals):

'Swimmers are notorious for having broad shoulders and a rounded posture. The muscles in the shoulder and upper back are hypertrophied from repetitive motion. This additional muscle mass contributes to excessive curvature in the spine and a weak core exposes the lower back to more strain. Poor posture can cause a number of problems. A slumped posture, also known as kyphosis, places strain on discs in the spine. If this posture becomes chronic, structural changes can occur and lead to reduced range of motion and difficulty breathing. Moreover, the hyper-curvature of the spine and tightness in the shoulders can cause pain in both regions as well as referred pain in seemingly unrelated areas. Overall, poor posture can cause chronic pain and put the athlete at risk of acute spinal disc injuries during swimming dryland training.'

https://blog.bridgeathletic.com/developing-good-biomechanics-on-land-und...

How could we make it worse? As chronically bad as possible. Whats the worst possible thing we could do, if we want to surf forever.

Exactly, tons of swimming training. A guaranteed, comprehensively proven recipe for disaster.

Like an aging, fucked up brickie, taking up tons of brick paving work as a cure all.

Here lies... fark he was a great brickie aye...

Btw, one of the blokes you mentioned above is my second cousin. Wonder if you can work out who.

I don't know how to ask this next question without opening myself to ridicule but here goes- As an early 50's fella I've kind of relied on my natural sportiness I enjoyed in my younger years to kinda carry me through. I've always been pretty good at sport and enjoy exercise but the last couple of years I've seem to be on the wane. My surfing has gone off a bit and I want to get back or at least prolong into the future what I have. I mentioned earlier, I do 150 push-ups every day and 100 sit ups, I power walk 3 k every morning with my dog and do another 1.5k every evening albeit a bit slower cause I take two dogs. I eat a predominantly Japanese diet (way too much rice) but do enjoy a beer. Very little to no refined sugar. I'm very very busy with my work but try and surf once or twice a week.

My question to you if you'll indulge me- what do you see going forward? I know what I do is not enough but there's only so many minutes in the day. Despite the obvious, where to start and how to build on that?

I'm asking you specifically Uppity but advice from anybody else gratefully received.

well most of you will be my age one day and if you want to be still surfing.
this is what i do.
i am 69 and i have lots of injuries,
i ride a 6ft 10 twin fin and love it.
if you want to be ripping when you are old, you have to start training NOW......
i dont smoke or drink or do drugs, my only goal is to be fit enough to surf
i surf every day min 2 hours, paddling is everything, loose that and its hello Malibu
surf summer shit so you can rip in winter,
even after a surf, i train with light weights, exercise bike and yoga
with bipola i am on meds so i sleep good and wake up at 4 am every morning winter and summer???
its up to you guys whats more important, surfing or going on the piss?
in 8 months i will be 70. farrrk i will be old then but i am not giving up my twinny.
good luck.

Gidday Zen, I was going to try and stay away from this thread, But I know I can truly help.

No idea which one zen.

No ridicule. I'll try to answer, but this is the truth, I do around 1500 -1600 PT's a year, have done for years. I knocked off late, checked the messages, more requests from surfing friends, who I honestly can't fit in, but they know I will. And I want to help you too. Its so hard to do it in writing. It would be so easy to show you why in person.

So honestly zen you are doing too much re time, and not enough re intensity, to truly get change, or real adaptation. Think say getting a tan, or callous. At present, even though you mean well, what you are doing is a recipe for getting sunburn or a blister.

You can't have both, intensity and time don't equate. The trainer above mentioned hormones. To feel and be healthy and fit, you need optimal hormones. Marathon runners and elite distance cyclists have shocking hormone profiles, but endurance. Sprinters have awesome hormone profiles, but zero endurance. So you have to think, how can I use both those facts, and relate them to performing better in health, and surfing, for ever.

Twice a week of the right training, including doing pushups, will turn you into an absolute pushup machine. Far moreso than what you are doing. But will becoming a pushup machine be the answer? Not unless the opposite structure is trained to be a machine.

Surfing itself is anaerobic, paddling a mix of that and aerobic. An awesome workout for any sport is to train your whole body intensely twice a week. Thinking like this.

Biggest muscles first, those that are imperative for actually surfing, and simultaneously optimal hormone health. So glutes/quad/ham/lower back, or your true core. How many truly intense sprints could even the world's best get. A couple, or the sprinter will compensate intensity to get longevity of effort (time).

And I would go for hex bar deadlifts to incorporate as much core muscle in one hit as possible. Then maybe 2 sets of side lunges each side. Here's some usefull blurb.

Hard to find a good demo, but I'll try in the next few days. Non alternating is best, more intense, no rest, rather than swapping from one main working leg to another each rep.

Next, with no rest, straight to biggest, relatively fresh muscles. Pulling structure, lats and everything else that works pulling. Overhead pulling. Properly. Including rotator cuff. External rotation, our culture is chronically internally rotated, surfing exasperates this. Again, think a couple of super intense sprints. No rest, next, opposite, biggest relatively fresh pushing muscles. Your pushups for instance. Proper, strict, safe pushups. Chest, triceps etc. Again rotator cuff, again external rotation. Alternate this every workout with this pushing exercise, military press. A pretty good demo. Again, learn how your rotator cuff works/moves during this.

Strict, correct form. No rest, back to pulling, which in the scheme of things, and especially in our culture, need and can cope with more work than pushing, and will be realtively fresh again. Change the angle, rowing style pulling.

Next, decompression. Nigel's pet love. Alternate a couple of sets of hyperextensions with hanging knee raises. Finito. Rest and adapt. Comeback stronger. No blisters, no sunburn.

The strategy, is like a 400m sprinter being able jump to fresh muscles again and again. The heart and lungs cop a hiding, don't know what's hitting them, in an intense way. A hiding that will lead to adaptation when surfing. Decreased recovery time, increased explosiveness on tap. Capable of 45 mins of hard core blitzkrieg. Way more than any continual effort in any sport, including surfing. Any activity gap during your surf, you'll be trained to recover as fast as possible. Over and over.

And you'll be able to apply that to surf training, you'll never beat actually surfing, for surfing, surfing crap even, working onskill, endurance, and explosiveness. Including effectively, because you have learned to love rest/recovery encompassing thinking, eating and sleeping optimally, yes, you'll apply no sunburn, and no blisters.

Have a good one, I have to crash zen. I hope this hasn't created confusion for you. I wish this was in person, because its so much better, so much clearer. Think about me as say, fluent in Italian only, asking you all the intricasies to learning to teach perfect English, perfectly. Its no one's fault at all, and no crime at all, perfectly ok and normal in fact, but, when I said after trying to glean all your years of genuine success, experience and expertise, 'no probs, got it buddy'... you would think , fuck, wish I could see him in person. Anyway, light weights, enough to feel something, but not enough to get hurt, when practising and learning technique. Be patient. Get expert in your technique, then go for it. Don't let injuries become learning experiences.

I edited it zen, to shift the leg exercises into the right order.

Just for effort and knowledge alone kinda short of words. Gonna have to read it again in the morning. Heaps of waves around here at the moment- won't lie, some are getting harder to catch. Thanks for the next level response.

I just love surfing and want to keep enjoying the thrill. I just love being out there. Never come back from a surf unhappy.

Blowin, gotta say best laugh i've had for a while, that was gold and true of 70% of the guys i surf with including me :)
you should consider doing an article for Ding Alley.
I'm in mid 50's and found that best prep for surfing into the later years was being shiiit at footy etc.. when i was younger so didn't carry over all those injuries from early years

BIpola wraps it up perfectly! My surfing has slowed down over the last several years but if i get three good waves I'm stoked for the rest of the day. Horses for courses with board selection, pushbike/swimming/ SUP(on the lake)& stretching with a few yoga poses + light weights(4kg) reps keeps me going! Injuries slow me down but I've learnt to nurse myself back to recovery after injury & not pushing myself to early after injury! Diet is important try to stay away from fast foods with high fat/sugar content & keep it simple with 2 meals a day & healthy snacks in between! I now also surf less(1 to 2 hrs) than I used to but make it more intense(catch more waves in a shorter period}. Keep surfing! It's my HOLY GRAIL in life!

My "weave it in the day" maintenance recipe:

- keep the weight off
- park and walk to work 25 minutes each way 3- 4 times per week
- go to the furthest loo in the building down multiple sets of stairs
- do 100 push ups off a bench after my loo visit
- take 3 steps at a time on way back up keeping good control - (arrive back at desk breathing a little heavy ;)
- ride a bike for fun when in the mood
- do some dumbbell arm stuff on my veranda simulating the paddle stroke in various ways - 100 reps when the dog goes out for a wee and I am waiting or when I walk past the weights and remember.
- paddle kayak when in the mood
- surf here and there when its good and fits my schedule
- don't over work the shoulders - started to get issues mid 50s - i.e. no more heavy bench press and don't try to be a push up or kayak paddling demon
- but... your push up is a key to the pop up so never let a basic level of push up strength fade - hugely important as poor pop up form and speed is what gives older surfers the most trouble.

Far from a perfect or balanced routine but it sort of weaves into my day and life without being a slog or big time commitment. It keep a base level of fitness but definitely not enough to be ready for big waves or to compete in crowds. As MB says, you can wear your body out going hard all the time. It lacks any specific work on core strength which I never quite seem to get around to....

Before a major surf trip, step everything up a few levels and try to surf whatever I can at least 3 times a week paddling fast and seek out some punchy waves with fast take offs. The somewhat rusty surfing level comes back quite fast.

Did some of my best surfing in my 50s. I still think if I prepared well I could match what I did in my 20s for another 5 years at least. But my surfing level peaks and troughs quite a bit with my fitness cycles.

Expectation and realism. Do you expect to keep surfing the way you did effortlessly in your 20's when all you had to do is turn up to a few uni lectures and work out which pub had the cheapest jugs on a Thursday night? Is it realistic to think that you shouldn't have grey hair or wrinkles after you've had 50 laps around the sun?

Also good on you for not forgoing every single social, alternate sporting, academic, family or vocational happening in your life for the past 30 years. The result of that may be a more rounded individual but a slightly less capable surfer. This is certainly not something to be ashamed of.

Another big thing people may like to consider is why they are actually surfing? I bet for most, reasons change. If you can work out exactly what your purpose for heading out for a paddle is then it would go a long way to tailoring a lifestyle / routine to maintain this.

No point signing up for 5 sessions of F45 or weekend camps at the HPC if you just want to keep out there when its head high 3 x week. Just get out there. Form good habits and rearrange your lifestyle to accommodate this.

I really feel people (both consumer and provider) over-complicate health and fitness. I think parts of the health 'industry' thrive on reducing one's self efficacy and is extremely savvy at ensuring people feel inadequate and hence reliant on it. Financial gain, ego and over justification of 'expertise' to list a few reasons.

Some of the fantastically simple and rational ideas above hit the mark: good diet, a mixture of cardio / strength and surfing is a pretty good way to live your life. Trying to put less energy into your gob than you expend and the flogged adage, 'if you don't use it you lose it' is true with most physical pursuits.

It doesn't mean you can't improve or get back to certain levels. However with age we may have the be a little more paced / graded in the way we increase our activity so as not to 'shock' (read: pain / injury) the body too much.

Great topic. Enjoying everyone's thoughts and ideas.

This thread is awesome and I'm glad it's provoked so much thought and conjecture.

I reckon the overall takeout from all this is that we all want to keep surfing and at least at a level where we can keep the stoke alive and in order to achieve that, we need to work at it physically, mentally and spiritually.

And lay off the beers.

Cheers to MB above and the others too.

Great stuff.

I'm surprised no one here does pull ups? They are way more functional for surfing than push ups IMO.

I think surf fitness is generally overrated if you are at your fighting weight, I've been around 80kg for the last 16 years and I plan on being around 80kg for at least the next 16, if not forever. I think Tom Carroll is a good role model for that. I've been fit and strong AF in my life and in no way does it help me stroke into bombs effortlessly and take late arse drops like Mick Fanning, Surfing makes you better at surfing IMO and that goes for any other sport as well. I'll also mention the Wim Hof method (free on Youtube or a free app), it's good shit for surfing confidence and more importantly, for life.

Ah, being strong is never a disadvantage though and it's great for injury prevention. Since I've stopped the gym I've noticed pain in my back and knees sometimes randomly, that never used to happen :/ Such is ageing I guess.

Had lower back pain off and on for years. Nothing seemed to help (stretching, yoga anti inflammatories). Surfing is my thing and it wasn't fun anymore because it hurt just to sit on the board, not to mention fucked my performance. Tried that Foundation Training Icandig mentioned and everything changed. Gotta do it everyday (takes 12 min.)and it kind of hurts but well worth it. Have not had back pain since. I am 54 and am fighting the performance surfing fight. To young to start going down hill! Figure after a life time of surfing you are more aware of the all the subtleties of riding waves so you can continue to get better. Just gotta keep the stoke going and work hard at it. And don't get dragged into the mind set that if you are not doing airs you are
not ripping. Fuck airs.

I do pull ups.

55 (20 weighted) , 3 times a week. Less if the surf is pumping.

Far as pop-ups go, that is the first thing to go and once that goes, you lose all confidence in taking a late drop and hence getting tubed.

Swiss ball jack knifes are almost an exact simulation of the pop up.

3 sets of 15, twice a week. Less if surfing more, more if surfing less.

https://www.msn.com/en-ph/health/exercise/strength/swiss-ball-jackknife/...

Cheers to MB for tuning in.

He got me back from being a cripple with low back episodes and gave me a program that works.
Still on it MB.

Pull ups are the best thing I have found for shoulder pain (tendinitis). They have greatly strengthened my paddling. Also changing my paddle by keeping elbows high and reaching forward rather than swinging arm forward.

pull-ups are money in the bank for paddling strength.

not endurance but that explosive burst that helps you catch set waves.

I would like to add my thoughts to the discussion on surf training. Please excuse me if I ramble on a bit, but my thoughts run deep on this issue...

First, some context. I am 62, and locked-down in Melbourne. I have undergone surgery and treatment for cancer in the last 12 months. I neither drink nor smoke, I eat a specific health-focussed diet, and I subscribe to a diverse daily surf training regime as my primary fitness focus. I am also a creature of habit (some say I'm slightly OCD in nature), and I like to keep to a routine.

There are a couple of philosophies that underpin my training:
• I have analysed what I am asking my body to do when I surf, and have built a customised program that incorporates exercises that both builds and sustains these body movements. The program requires a daily investment of 1.5-2 hours of non-surf activities.
• I subscribe to Pat Clohessy's idea of simple repetitive training: if you can maintain the same training schedule over an extended period of time and remain injury free, you will achieve incremental gains.
• I believe that personalising your own training program makes it more meaningful, it gives you ownership and makes it more sustainable (this program also includes your diet, your rest and recovery, and your mental well-being). You must listen to your body, it will tell you much more than any other source of knowledge. Your body knows all your truths, all your strengths and weaknesses, all your scars.

We are all of us limited by who we are, the only contentious issues in life are those actions that we have any control over. If you want to improve your surfing through a blend of surfing and non-surfing activities, it's best to begin with critical reflection by asking yourself a few relevant questions:
• What do you want from surfing?
• How much do you want it?
• How hard is it to achieve what you want?
• What physical condition do you need to be in to get what you want?
• Are you prepared to do what it takes to get what you want?

Answering these questions honestly sets the bar. Once you know what you want, what you realistically hope to achieve, then you can go about developing your own surf training regime.

It has been said that ‘only a surfer knows the feeling’… and that very well may be true; to stand behind the liquid curtain, henceforth to traverse the inner sanctum of a tubing wave is to experience time outside time. It is a privilege in life, an honour rarely afforded, and an accomplishment dutifully earned. For in this world of cheap thrills and disposable gratification, one must pay their dues before one can savour the buzz of locking-in to a tube. All the money in the world can’t buy you this ticket! So this then begs the question: how does one earn the right to ride the wild surf? How does one develop the requisite skills? The simple answer is to get wet and practice. The more complex answer is to integrate non-surf training activities into your daily life.

The ocean is a fickle lady, and the days she delivers up her waves of consequence are few and far between. But one day, the wheel will turn, and as surely as day follows night, the ocean will once more show her hand; she will present herself in all her glory, and call to those who would stand before her, who would enter her domain, and who would rise to ride inside her.

Surfers place themselves in harm’s way; they challenge themselves to be the best that they can be in order to survive let alone thrive. For the ocean can never be tamed, and the best a surfer can hope is to navigate safe passage through her straits, and walk away once more. Like I said, ‘only a surfer knows the feeling’…

Cancer has taught me that life is fragile... somewhere inside me, I guess I've always known that. Surfing has taught me that life can be perfect, but that perfection is both relative and transient. One day soon, I will surf again, and out of respect for the ocean and all who love her, I will make sure that I am ready when she calls. That is my life, and that is why I train to surf.

Right on Fireblade.
More power to you brother.

I've been aware of Chris for a few years, came close to buying one of his programs but didn't in the end because of internet problems.

He is one of many people offering the same sort of surf specific programs out there of which I've purchased two as reference guides to add what I already do, and I think that's the most important point about life long fitness ---- do what you enjoy and what works for you. Take what is good and works for you from many sources.

For me the basis of my dry land surf fitness is an online surf specific yoga and pilates program by Ryan Huxley (no longer available). I got from Chris that a good popup starts with solid push up or a chaturanga in yoga (included in Ryan's programs). So the basis of my daily program is yoga, pilates, body weight and meditation especially around/ for breath awareness.

IMO many of these surf specific programs, including Chris' are best suited to (20-40 years) surfers with relatively good fitness because the starting points for the exercises are often are at an intermediate level. If you're not in that category (because age, illness or injury) it's harder to find programs that provide progressive steps from beginner to advanced but they are out there. Happy to list some if people are interested.

What a great comments section. Much appreciated, all.

My step dad was an excellent osteopath, and he told me something that I think rings true- the path of least resistance is the one most travelled by people.

Those who are naturally strong tend to gravitate towards strength-based pursuits and neglect the flexibility side of exercise, while vice versa the naturally flexible end up doing yoga or something similar, and neglect the strength building side. A balance of both is ideal.

Easier said than done though.

Here's to many years more of epic overhead barrels for the lot of us!

Here's one for those (like me) that suffer from lower back pain. Someone mentioned Foundation Training above. I've only every used the link below. Looks like it might be the same guy / program.

Parts of it are reasonably tough so I wouldn't do it if you've got any niggles in your back at the time as it might exacerbate it.

Thats the one I use 4-6 times a week. Yeah some parts, particularly the last 3 minutes cause your lower back to feel uncomfortable but after it is done your back is solid. It basically is training connective muscles in the back of your legs and butt to do a lot of the work your lower back is doing, hence taking the strain off your back.

I concur, great thread. Pertinent to so many of us here. I turned 51 yesterday, and am probably in the best shape I've been in the past 10 years. I guess I've been pretty lucky to be in pretty good physical shape, and haven't had any particularly bad injuries over the course of my surfing life. Just general active lifestyle and reasonable diet had kept me in good stead, but just recently I felt there was room for improvement. As much mentally as physically I needed to start to work on things. For me it's been as simple as alowing myself 30-40 mins to start the day, to stretch and breathe, and just clear the mind. Basically yoga, but I've just kinda made up my own routine that I'm slowly improving and expanding on. Started about 3 months ago, and really starting to see a marked improvement in flexibility, energy and general mental state. So if I've got any advice to offer, it would be stay off your phone first thing in the morning, do something beneficial to your well-being instead, start the day off right!

i learnt something new today, Swiss ball jack knives....i went out and bought the ball, i think it will really help me in standing up.
i have had some problems in that department for the last 10 months. it got so bad i thought i was partially paralyzed. i would paddle for the wave and my head and shoulders and arms would work, but my legs refused to come under me. i would look back at my legs and they would just be lying there, not moving. i got scared, surfing is my exercise and its fun to do. i want to do it till i die.
i am sick of paddling in when it happens. the doc says not to worry he will sort it out.
just have to keep going out and training.
when i am at the beach i take my board and walk half a k to warm up then run through swat and arm movements. while sitting out the back i free dive to stretch my body. when i have finished surfing, i usually swim back in again stretching.
at home i have a exercise bike, weight bench and a inversion table and now a Swiss ball.. this has been one of the best topics thank you to everyone.
i got my test results back today. lower back injury, small hernia

Interesting the pushups v no pushups crew. From personal experience, i find pushups, 2 or 3 times a week, 10-15 mins, especially if you can make them a bit more explosive with a couple of claps, legs raised etc, have a huge all round benefit. It's not just shoulders, its core strength and a massive cardio workout if you can do them in a intense structured way. Find that when i'm surfing that extra strength is so useful in being stronger in the surf, especially when it has a bit of push. Just seem to punch through waves heaps easier and if one rolls you your body absorbs the impact a little better. Agree also that surfing/bodysurfing is really the best training for staying on your game. Great thoughts by all. Good to get some inspo. Cheers.

Thanks for the kind words Cris, a lot of your interview resonates with me too, and I really understand that you would love to get your information out in a really thorough, meaningful way, and how sometimes things get taken out of context, misunderstood etc.

I am approaching reading and commenting on your article from the aspects you raised about maximum performance, re health and also surfing. For me, this is it, we have been blessed with a chance to enjoy life in this body, on this planet. Its a choice how much we appreciate and respect that though. I'm mid sixties and I first started training to improve fitness and health close to 50 years ago. I was lucky in that I played basketball for a club that had US affiliations, which would regularly host US college teams. Back then, any type of weight training was considered disastrous regarding performance by all sports in Australia, and our coaches actively discouraged it. What I saw was that it was gaining traction in the US, and the players loved talking about it. I saw they were faster, stronger and more athletic from it, and more resiliant against injury. So away I went. And I've learned so much, from other equally passionate people, and from my own discoveries. I have seen fad after fad do the rounds, and can honestly say I've truly been able to conduct and witness endless human trials, and have seen what makes and survives the cut, re performance longevity.

It's great that you seperate physiological improvement, and skill improvement. Which ties in also regarding the points you raised about the classic 'challenge' scenarios doing the rounds. If people understood the reality of how the body adapts, they would realize how laughable it is to expect the type of adaptations and changes that they want to see, in say the 2, 4, 6, 8 or so weeks (soon to be days) brazenly promoted. My situation is deluxe, in that I have no shortage of clients. I have a fully booked base, some that have have been with me for around a dozen years, and plenty waiting in the wings. The reason I raise this, and real benefit of this, is that I can be as honest as I feel like. I don't need people's dollars, so can tell the truth. Its not my problem if they don't like it. The industry is in a crappy situation, competition is ever exploding, and many centres and young trainers are placed in shitty franchise and or contract positions, and behind the eightball, reduced to grovelling to try and woo potential clients. Reduced to selling them what they want. 'Sure we'll give you a new program every week, every workout if you want, shit even every set, you'll never be bored (translation, you'll never learn anything well enough, or stick at it long enough to ever truly get structural adaptation). 'No, never, we won't give you those silly, fanatical, healthy eating diets, you won't need it, you can stay a normal balanced human being, because we have a whole armada of GeeX1000Z advanced, functional cardio machines, guaranteed to strip that excess off!!! And wait until you try the new gummy bears shred max extra, you won't recognise yourself!

Adaptation has stages. Nature is economics in action. It hates spending up for nothing. So, the cheapest way out if dealing with exercise stress, is coordination, or nervous system improvements and refinements. The weights go up, because things start to work in the right sequence, the tug of war team is learning to pull together, but you don't really see a lot of structural change. If you persist long enough, and we are all a bit different, but as a rough idea, and depending on the ancillary actions, diet, sleep, etc, around 4 - 8 weeks, nature will listen to your protest, and spend a bit more, but, just a bit. Circulatory system changes. Fuel supply, waste removal, aka, fitness changes. You can work harder, so the weights keep moving... 'not that I wanted them, or give a shit about them, but, where's me guns, or butt cheeks, or... I'm slaving me guts out and you promised me!!!!!!' You will feel better though. Finally, if you can stick through this phase, the real benefits start to happen. Nature surrenders the wallet and opens it, matching your payments. You can buy structural change. As long as you keep paying, because nature will take it all back first chance it gets. Muscle tissue begins to adapt, as do tendons, ligaments, bone etc. You get to restore, or beef up and improve the vehicle. Then you need to stick at that, reap the rewards, until its nature who's getting bored. Then you've earned the right to change, to advance to new challenges, and nature will pay you accordingly.

From my experience, another great hoax is the 'just maintaining' black hole. That's not how it works. You'll be tipping the scales towards regression, and nature will flog a bit, here and there, you won't even notice, and the tractor beam will drag you in. The goal should always be, how can I improve? That fuels the psychological system too. Nothing worse than trying to watch endless reruns. You'll crack, and reach for the fridge. Fire up the imagination, that alone has real benefits, there's endless ways to improve.

For instance, yeh, some great stuff re pop ups. How to up that level, once you notice things 'maintaining'. Here's a few ideas, working through a few levels of difficulty.

I'll put a couple of this next variation, because at least they are trying to protect their shoulders when doing the pushup. One of the most butchered exercises that I see. Proper rotator cuff engagement is crucial in all upper body movements, and one of the biggest bungles. I see so many surfers (and the public) chronically internally rotated, and with next to no idea or awareness of how the crucial, whole shoulder structure works. A good topic for you to get stuck into Cris.

I can't believe that I'm using F45, normally its horrifying what I see, but this guy does a good job.

I hope that you get a regular thing happeneing here Cris, it is an invaluable no brainer as far as I can see, and in my experience, and you look and sound more than up to the task. Massive topic.

Really stoked you stuck at it free, and are in a position to keep surfing, branch out, improve and experiment. Well done. But remember, and stoked that you still do them, some things should be essentials. And yeh Cris, decompression and simultaneously strengthening using hanging knee raises and hyperextensions correctly, can produce unbelievable results. Thanks Nigel Websdale. He would be beaming, as he dropped into another of his beloved Forresters bomb.

Page 3, half way down. This always makes me laugh, there's fuck all about Nigel, he hated writing shit down too. I actually played against Uthoff too. There were numerous news paper items, but now virtually impossible to find.

https://www.sydneyboyshigh.com/publications/document-library/doc_view/76...

There’s a lot of great advice on this thread.

Would it be fair to say that in summary, some cardio (running, bike riding) mixed with a variety of strength exercises (either weights or body weight stuff) is the way to go?
Possibly Pilates or something similar mixed in.

It sounds like the message is to mix it up and get all body parts exercising.

First thing is, you need to have your reason for training crystal clear. Training or exercise is a just cause, a stress. So you need to know what results that you want, or you could be causing and creating the exact opposite to what you are aiming at.

But in a way you are right, muscle is designed to perform work. To contract. If it doesn’t, nature will take it. It atrophies, nature will send the resources needed to create and support it elsewhere.

I’ve been through all this before. Gyms are full of people wandering around aimlessly. People wander the streets and beaches and cycle paths aimlessly. Which is fine if you are just relaxing, and movement can be great. But say that you are trying to lose a heap of weight. People mistakenly think that they will train it off. I can make an elite athlete gain weight by giving them one too many bananas a day. Look at what elite boxers go through to ‘make weight’. Overweight people have to eat less.

Likewise say you are trying to change an existing physical state, say kyphosis, sore knees, hips, inverted ankles, etc. If you choose the wrong activity, which people often invariably do, out of ingrained habits, because it feels comfortable (slouches love slouching), the existing situation is made worse. You have to make sure that you aren’t just being run by habits gorging themselves. It’s amazing how many are.

Say hello to Yazzie for me goofer, and please, even though you have the upper hand standing astride the storm to end all storms at least let him have some of the little ones. Goofer. I have to go now...

Hey Chris, top read!

You mention Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms testing. I am struggling to find this on the net, what sort of specific testing is this, and where could I get this done?

Thanks mate!

40? 50? 60? Easy, well, easy enough. Wait until you hit 70 ... and counting. The thing that really starts to go is your pop-up, just getting to your feet with the ease of days gone by. This is particularly so on smaller more benign days when the waves might lack a bit of push and, let's face it, at 72 I'm not quite the triple head high hellman - ha, ha! - I used to be. Was I ever? Hardly. My perception, paddling and positioning are still all there and once I'm up and going everything more or less still works. Before every surf I stretch, particularly my lower back, and if I don't surf I'll still do the stretches and a bit of resistance stuff, or ride my bike pretty hard for an hour or so in the nearby park which is well set up for that, or maybe just go for a long walk - still do the Bondi-Coogee return occasionally. But the pop-up thing is really starting to give me the shits - maybe I'm bound for the local bowls club. Not that there's anything wrong with that but I have a feeling it would be the start of the death of me.

Enjoyed the comments above.
This comment from Cris in the article was an eye opener for me, often wondered if there was a connection:
"If you have a pro-inflammatory diet you are going to have issues with proper core function. Are the muscles stabilising the pelvis and the spine firing properly or not? There are neural loops which connect your gut to these muscles and poor diet will stop them functioning optimally by alerting them to inflammation constantly."

A few comments above mention workouts etc, my question is if you've had a big day at work (physical work) or had a solid session in the water would you still have a workout? What if everyday is big at work or you have a succession of days in the surf?
I'm thinking that complimentary or opposing exercises would be key in this situation?
If so, where is a good source of such exercises?

meat with a blue-cheese aftertaste?

no offence Zen, but that sounds gross.

hahahahah.

blue cheese makes me puke so it would have to be very subtle before I'd go near it.

no accounting for taste though.

and i am a vegetarian

At 69 years young and a longboarder now, and struggling a bit with some of the requirements for a session and general fitness I turned to 'Surf Strength Coach' the basics and found Cris's instruction very easy to follow and seems to be helping with general paddle fitness at my stage on my surf journey. The exercises using a gym ball and light weights is excellent for this geriatric.Thanks Cris!!

Inflammation control is a huge topic.

Recent advancements in technology make it possible to observe the body's reaction to particular thoughts. Thoughts can either instantly create undesirable inflammation, or create favourable physical responses. This is not really new thinking though, it is a long held belief of meditation practitioners, and was thrust into the western mindset when 'bio feedback' burst on the scene. The general philosophy was the foundation of visualisation and 'personal development', and also conditioning.

One of the world's top neurologists Rudolp Tanzi is enthusiastically putting the new discoveries made possible by technology into the public sphere, in an easy to understand language.

The basic idea is, use your thoughts to create a favourable physical response. So, say you could see all your thoughts for a day, week, year, etc. What side predominates, inflamation causing thoughts, or the opposite. Then you can use other mental techniques, workouts and exercises if you like, to further sway the balance.

https://goop.com/wellness/health/rewire-your-head-change-your-world/

https://drleaf.com/blogs/news/how-to-use-your-thoughts-to-influence-your...

Early on I learned that to get true, lasting, permanent change in your clients, its the mind, the conditioning that must be changed. And that the mind and physical body influence each other in that regard.

There are some excellent supplements to aid in gut health and inflammmation control. Over 45 years, and a huge number of clients and training sessions I have had ample chance to see results, or no results re supplements. The field is a scammers dream come true. Unbelievable scams. However, some things get results.

Lactoferrin is the anti-inflammatory/gut health star in my view and experience. All of my long term clients use it. It can be very expensive, and in short supply. It was pounced on once some news came out about it and covid, and the prices and supplies overall went beserk. Luckily I have a good source that I use for myself and clients. I won't share that, but here's a reasonably priced, top quality good source, for anyone interested.

https://www.professionalwhey.com.au/lactoferrin

Here's a bit of info, do your own research if you are interested.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5681489/

'In conclusion, LTF plays a major functional role in physiologic homeostasis as related to development of disease and associated pathology. In many cases, LTF fulfills its anti-inflammatory roles via different cell receptors and activation of various cell signaling pathways, often through iron-dependent mechanisms. In fact, the ability of LTF to both sequester iron and to direct reactive oxygen intermediates is a major factor in lessening damage due to excessive inflammatory responses. The immunomodulatory nature of this protein derives from its unique ability to sense the immune activation status of an organism and act accordingly. The interaction of LTF with its receptors can trigger “redundant” protective effects as reflected by (1) regulation of enzyme activities and ROS production; (2) immune deviation and modulation; (3) change of cell phenotype and cytokine profile; (4) binding to LPS or competition with its receptors, and (5) prevention of cell apoptosis. Many additional immune pathways are also affected, which culminate in the consequence of attenuated pathological changes as tissue repair processes are initiated.'

http://calostart.com/app/docs/ARTRITIS-REUMATOIDE/CALOSTART%20-%20%20ART...

Look at prebiotics rather than probiotics.

Tanzi mentions ashwagandha. This too is nothing new, it has been used by other cultures for ages. I have used it in various forms for around 30 years, again, all my long term clients use it. Do your own research. Here's the best value brands and sources. It grows quickly and abundantly, so don't gt ripped off with price. KSM-66 is the patented extract from the herb that all the fuss is about, so make sure your product is high in that if you decide to use it.

https://ksm66ashwagandhaa.com/

https://au.iherb.com/pr/Jarrow-Formulas-Ashwagandha-300-mg-120-Capsules/...

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-ultimate-ashwagandha-ksm-6...

Tanzi also recommends Tru Niagen. Laird Hamilton's wife is in on that one. I have used it for 6 months continuous, and don't rate it. I didn't notice anything. The jury is out on it overall, but some rave about it.

Telomeres. Learn about them.

10 points you lot. Great thread and good to see everyone on pretty much the same page.

I agree with earlier comments that if you're older and/or injured you need to take your time and build up to things. I've done many different things to try and overcome chronic lower back issues. I've only got two tips to add to what's already been said:
- shoulder issues can have a lot to do with strain and repetition in the shoulders and chest. I've been doing low/mid/high pec stretches before every surf for the last three months and my shoulder issues have sorted themselves out.
- if you practice good paddle technique, getting on a SUP away from the mob is great exercise, especially if it's a bit choppy and making you work hard to stay upright. Years ago when all I could do was SUP thanks to my back, I took a mate out for a go. He lasted 45 min and then fell asleep among the kids on the lounge when we got home. Knackered. It's like pilates on the water. Easy to take the piss, I know, but seriously worth considering.

Gidday Linez, your confusion is understandable.

I want to give you help and hope, alay your confusion and doubt, because yours is a situation that I deal with relentlessly. And in that situation, I am supremely confident and experienced. 1500 Pt's a year, year after year. Mid sixties, in this industry. No ads required, no cards, no website, totally booked out, zero advertising budget. Zero advertising year after year. In this industry. Think about that. Presently in a small town, everyone knows everything, you can't hide or bullshit. And have been here for over 10 years. I could debate and argue with brilliant swillnuts, but, been there, done that. I could literally blitz the thread with references, refering to supposedly unfixable backs, that I fixed, and then have brilliant swillnuts foaming and pinging and buzzing, and bouncing off walls left right and centre. I honestly can't be fucked.

But I'll do this Linez. I'll put two videos up, that will form a basis of rehab. They are very deceiving, in that every little unseen detail matters. I used my son to make these to send to friends. If you want, and don't feel at all offended if you don't, watch them,
nuttle has my email, contact me, and I'll talk to you over the phone, it won't cost anything, and it will be easier than trying to write all that is required here. Remembering that every situation is unique, and I can manipulate those two basic movements to cater to your unique starting point. I can use those two videos to make it much clearer, crystal clear to you what you need to do, and why. That is a risk to me, because your ingrained habits will influence how you hear what I say, and how you do the things I describe. That's all normal though, but much quicker and easier to deal with in person. Your call linez.

I love those vids. That kid! He followed me around the gym as soon as he could crawl. What a fucking athletic machine. Never touched a rugby ball in his life. A local teacher took some kids to Adelaide for some fun, Melbourne Storm and Brisbane Bronco's blown away, chucked scholarships at him, try of the series in the Australian Junior rugby championships, drafted by storm... misses his friends and here, and goes home. Father devastated. Then the words of wisdom. From the mouth of babes. 'Hey dad, relax dad, its all cool, its just a game dad.'

Brilliant. That's extremely generous of you MB. Thank you.

Such a good article Cris, Stu and forum. Great info to think about. Thanks for the links Michael.

The other things I find important is time, how we chose to use our time. I changed my habits in the last 5 years to cut right back on booze, eat well, go to bed early, get up early and spend the first part of the day doing things for myself. Keeping it simple before my busy day starts. I have a routine of early yoga then, surfing, or swimming, or gardening or walking the dog. Don't look at your phone, be in the moment. It has been a game changer for me. I am more in tune with myself and my surfing.

I find too much time on electronics TV, Computers, Mobile phone drains energy and is a huge time waster. Time is so precious.

How you chose to spend your holidays. I find a surf camping trip each year in one spot keeping things simple, slow down, connecting with nature, no phones does wonders. I’ve had awesome camping holidays in each surfing state of Australia, there’s plenty of opportunities out there. Even more so with Covid when we can’t go OS, do the annual Indo trip.

As a result of the changes I’ve made I find I’m doing some of my best surfing now in my fifties. On holidays, weekend surf trips I can surf for 5 to 6 hours a day before I feel fatigued, across 2 or 3 sessions in a day, although now a days with a siesta after lunch. Board design is a another factor in keeping me surfing well, being stoked.

Best thread I've read on here. Thanks all, very informative, especially with bonus insights from guys like MB. At 33 I felt my back was done – over the course of 7 years my back had degraded to the point where I was kneeling at my work desk protecting my knees with a rolled up towel. I went down the surgical route, electing for major back surgery, replacing a herniated disc at L5/S1 (lowest level) with a titanium artificial disc, which retained movement in my lumbar spine, as opposed to fusion. The Op was in Sweden - I'm from South Oz, so was a long way to travel, but I did my research and the doc that did it was elite, having done thousands and assisted pro athletes rebooting their careers.. I sold up everything to fund the operation, car, shares, etc, as there was no insurance coverage outside Aus ..... Post op, the rehab was gritty, including a lot of movement re-programming of basic stuff like getting up, shifting weight one leg to another and walking. Despite this, I was back in the water surfing after 3 months. As an aside, the implant actually made me 1cm taller post surgery (back to my original height before disc degeneration). 10 years on, I don't regret the surgery ( I can still surf, tennis, golf, sit at my desk like a corporate boffin etc,) but feel fairly confident, after learning a ton about chronic pain, I could have avoided it. As MB eludes to above, most of which came down to not what I was doing, but what I was thinking. Being a vigilant, high achiever type personality, with loads of discipline, didn't necessarily serve me when it came to trying to 'beat' back pain. Over exercise (even the right exercises), and other value drivers in my life that weren't necessarily firing at the time like work (business building), relationships, kept the cortisol tap on and my soft tissue in a state of inflammation that my brain knew as ‘pain’.

Anyway I could rant on, but I’ll sign off - sharing of information and connecting with likeminded folk was one of the first ideals behind the internet – good to see it in action in this forum! For anyone that wants to hit me up about my experience, happy to share more cheers, Alastair Haldane.

Thank you so much for this thread. And the comments! Cris, MB and everyone else.

This has ignited a spark in the mind.

This is amazing. Thank you everyone. Freeride - that Swiss Jackknife movelooks unreal. What’s the best size ball to get? I’m 6’ . Any info appreciated .

Gidday 82shoes. I honestly can't answer properly now, but I will, its a topic close to me heart. But quickly, no, don't do anything remotely resembling burpees or deadlifts, until your situation has been changed. And the hanging knee raises and hyperextensions will do exactly that. As I said those deceptive videos are just a guide.Your approach to them will be tailored to your situation. And that could be dramatically tailored. For all we know, you may not even be able to hang without destroying your shoulders in the process. I have the ultimate hyperextension bench, nothing comes close to it, in the way that I can adjust every variable to suit.

Because guess what, contrary to popular belief, when dealing with injuries, especially like this, this format, which as I have repeatedly said is way, way less than ideal, it is full on rocket science, and swillnuts, even well meaning swillnuts can and often do, totally fuck people up. For instance.

'I've got a headache...(or a sharp pain in my calf)'

'Ooops, gee look, now you've got a stroke... eeermmm... shall we contact the swillnuts... they might have a tin a spliffs....'

In the meantime here's more info to consider. In the mass of confusion surrounding back fitness, rehab and pain. Nigel Websdale was pushing shit uphill, as one of the first to strongly assert that discs heal and regenerate. He took too much to heart, everything, and now he's gone. Despite drastically changing the lives of many, many, many people, not just the few 'more, or only important' celebrities. And, lots of people have short memories, and extremely flexible memories. Back stories even.

His methods are ingenious, and comprehensively addressed and attacked getting a fit back from every angle. Too much to write here. He hated writing, and I did manage to wring notes and documentation out of him, which went up in smoke in a divorce. But, we loved all this stuff, and its permanently stamped in my mind. Plus, it was evolving, and still is. Everyone of my clients use it. I get a massive amount of ongoing, real world feedback.

Nigel and I used to have huge discussions about deadlifting, he hated them, I love them. I have rehabbed total cripples just using deadlifts, so he couldn't resist paying attention. But, you have to know how. How to manipulate the exercise and slowly turn it into a rock solid, standard deadlift. Its a dilema, I see guys like Cris, and myself, its a genuine passion, the urge to help is huge, its real, because you genuinely can. But, only so many hours in the day, to deal with so many complex, unique situations. So they try to pour their heart and soul into virtual, remote training. I hate it. Some just see a window to big bucks, and are professional bullshit artists. I can pick them a mile away. That's not Cris in my observation. Then of course, 'hey mate, I've been here since 6.00am this morning, its 9.30pm...'

Why do you sooner or later have to deadlift and squat, like the best, like a gun. 'But my 'specialist' said I can't'. I'm a rocket scientist. The whole nine yards. I have already seen them get out the car, carry the bag of notes, files, xrays and reports, and the bag of gym gear. Then I make them do a little dance, this chair, that one, picking this and that up, shifting their weight and mind where I want it. No detail is missed, not one. When they want sympathy... ohh the pain... but, say, 'How fucking much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!' Where did that pain go. 'Look, in the last 15 minutes, you've done about 20 squats, and an equal number of deadlifts, and barely batted an eyelid. Everytime you get out of bed or a chair, you squat, and all those bags and things you picked up and put down, thats called a deadlift. Either we put you in a full body concrete cast so that you can't move, or you better learn a bit about doing them better. 'Specialist' ya reckon...'

https://www.health.harvard.edu/pain/will-my-herniated-disc-heal-on-its-own

https://mayfieldclinic.com/pe-hldisc.htm

https://www.epphysioplus.com/the-truth-behind-disc-bulges/

Then we get to the clients. Aaaahhh yesss, the always 'innocent' clients. 'We dun everything ya said...' 'Everything?' 'Yeeehhhh... well naaaarrr... yeeeeaaahh... jeez...' And the one's that'll just do a couple, and take it from there... 'Give us a look how you've beeen going... hang on, who told you to do that, remember when we spent hours making sure your hand was up, why is it down...' 'Yeeehhhhh... naaaarrr... you sed but...' 'No, see, lucky I video'd it....' 'Well, I cooda sworn... well anyway... fffaaaarkkk wot diffrance duz that maaaaake... jeeeze!!!!!'

In a way it reminds me of kids, did you know they can't 'do weights'.?

I can hear them cheering from here. 'Uuuuunnnrrreeaallll, we never have to lug another weirdo shaped, unbalanced crappy sack of school books and shit ever again.' Balanced by, 'Nnnnnnnnnoooooo, no more piggy back fights!!!!!!!!!!!!'

So, when the scan shows a crumbled vertebrae, and blob of oozing jelly hanging out of the back of their disc, or their supraspinatus tendon is hanging by a micro thread, and that torn calf is a massive blood clot, yep, guess what, its rocket science. And as far as asking your doctor what exercises to do... WTF... No, no, give them a chance, they should be able to find the page of notes they studied about it somewhere. Or else they'll be able to bring something up on the screen, and print it off, the secretary can show you how to do them on the way out.

Michael B, how do you rate Dustin Martin as an athlete? Anything you would like to change about him?
He’s pretty much the perfect specimen to play the position he plays. Speed, power, strength, balance, coordination

Fark I hate pushups. Did enough to last a lifetime while I was in the army reserves. Big ups to people who have the willpower to blast them out day after day.

Jeez Goofer, how’s your form… we are supposed to be helping the injured. But I can feel your pain from here goofball. I’m on the move, so, again… briefly. I can barely watch it goof. The old boy wanted me to watch it with him, because of his vision. He’s a crumpled, barely recovering, lifelong ports man. He grew up down the port. My uncles played for them, so my brother and I spent our Saturday mornings watching the back fence getting demolished by stab kicks, as the likes of hayes, boyd, virgo, gill, matters, salmon and co warmed up, having ridden their bikes there after work. Then they’d all ride off to the game.

Sure enough, first thing I see, some scrawny, little, spoiled cunt, straight in front, no opposition, barely a breath of wind, 10 metres out, and they need technology to see if it’s out on the full…again, or if he managed to sneak it in for a point. Dad’s hounding the shit out of me the whole first half, ‘where’s dusty, is he on, or is he injured’. ‘Have they put dusty on yet’. ‘Michael, for christ’s sake Michael, use ya phone and find out for me what’s wrong with dusty’ ‘Fucked if I know dad, FFS, I think he’s out there somewhere.’

Dusty finally appears. ‘There’s dusty dad, he’s havin’ a set shot. He should get it, only 35 out, not a bad angle… he couldn’t miss this, surely, it’s a set shot, he’s a superstar isn’t he… they couldn’t possibly get better aaayyee… dad…’ ‘He keeps panickin’ but he’s going the checkside they reckon dad…’ ‘Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, FFS, he’s hit some poor cunt in the fucking head, sitting on the fence 20 meteres away!!!’ ‘What did he kick over there for, that’s nowhere near the goals.’ ‘Dunno dad, hang on another one’s just sprayed out on the full, but there’s some new rule, someone bumped someone up the ground, and it’s a free, they’re just trying to figure it all out’ ‘What, nup, don’t think its anything to do with social distancing dad…’

‘Why’s lil’ gaz been playing with one arm behind his back the whole game?’ ‘Dunno dad, maybe they don’t wanna win?’ ‘Oye… coach, put me on, I got two arms!!!’ ’Faaark orf dickhead, we really wanna win this one…’

Last epic moment, geelong star drops a stock standard, your grandmother could mark it sitter, unopposed again, half heartedly bends over and stumbles around trying to pick it up, dusty spots genuine hard nut Byron with his coleman getting ready, grabs it, gets tackled in the most feeble tackle ever, by the worlds weakest tackler, so basically doesn’t get tackled. Dad’s going beserk… ‘#Don’t ffaarkin tackle him… ya not allowed to touch em…#’ ‘Shit Michael, did that one go in… or was it out on the full’ ‘Hahahahahahahahahaha bet ya they give the coleman to dusty now…’
#unless it’s a bungle by, or by accident by your own team mates…#

How was the show, the half time show too goofer... huge event... greatest ever? Again? Just a quicky for you goofer. Probably hardly worth thinking about, but whatdya reckon young David Attenbourough, or even the young planet for that matter would've thought?

I'm gettin' something together for 82shoes goofer. So you know how these things go... goofer... son...

'Wrong thread man'

Supposed to be here helping the injured....

Next minute
“ . That kid! He followed me around the gym as soon as he could crawl. What a fucking athletic machine. Never touched a rugby ball in his life. A local teacher took some kids to Adelaide for some fun, Melbourne Storm and Brisbane Bronco's blown away, chucked scholarships at him, try of the series in the Australian Junior rugby championships, drafted by storm... misses his friends and here, and goes home. Father devastated. Then the words of wisdom. From the mouth of babes. 'Hey dad, relax dad, its all cool, its just a game dad.'”

Fuck pass me the bucket...

Yeah, wrong thread, man

Sorry for ruining the thread, no more replying to this "legend"

Pickin' on the groms now. And all that kid did is give up even more time, for people and swillnuts he wouldn't know from a bar of soap. Typical swillnut. Epic vids aye. That's called pure athleticism goof. How's the balanced development.. Can you imagine it? Stick to shit you know about goof. Swillnuttin' and stuff.

Hey, you haven't answered me about stormin' all over yazzie either? how much has he offered ya for it. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

'wrong thread man'... again...

Gidday 82shoes, sorry I missed your second post. I've been putting some stuff down for you and others. Unfortunately, the system I use is unique, and I dont know of anyone else doing it. I really wish there was. The videos are deceptive. A lot of small changes can completely change the effect. We later use a unique sytem of adding weight to the movements, which mean unlimited weight can be used, without compromising focus on the target muscles.

Re your shoulder, see the stools in the custom built chin tower/hanging racks. They are used to control how much we load your shoulders initially. You control the load with your legs, so we can access how you cope. Plenty of people can't hang initially. But that is soon alleviated and strengthened. I mentioned my bench is the best available, and I've scoured the planet. Its unavailable at the moment, for who knows how long, because of covid. But, at first this is the beginners angle, and you will need something like this. This one is a bargain. I have had friends get this one, to get them going. It needs to be length adjustable, and a foot platform is necessary. You might be able to find something, but again covid.

https://www.flexequipment.com.au/armortech-v2-hyper-extension-bench

To be honest 82shoes, the best thing I can recommend is like linez. There's just too much individual stuff to write. And I'm honestly flat out all week. If you want, contact nuttle, and email me, organise to ring. That way, It will be much easier, and more efficient. You will be able to decide more easily what you want to do. I did a similar thing with freeride. It will have to be the yahoo email I originally used as Uplift, or I probably won't see it. I'll do this again, if you want, again, no cost, but that's it. I'm too flat out to do anymore stuff like that. I'll write a bit more general stuff, but its going to slow down. Hope this helps 82shoes.

In the mean time, I'll put up the stuff I was working on, before I was swillnut goofballed... again.

So 82shoes, and anyone interested in dealing with lower back issues. Blood heals. No blood flow, no healing, poor blood flow poor healing. So we want the area gorged with a regular flow of blood. The issue is then how to do that, promote healing, whilst dealing with pain and inflammation, and without further aggravation, particularly scarring.

Using a combination and variations of the two exercises in the videos I posted earlier, all the above can be achieved optimally, whilst simultaneously strengthening the discs and supporting structures. Hyperextensions involve and strengthen core, that is, back, glutes and hamstrings, in a traction like situation, opening up, and decompressing the area. Deadlifts etc, do the same thing, but encourage compression. That decompression and opening up is crucial. It relieves pressure and allows the bulge to settle back in place, and heal properly, and simultaneously reduces inflammation. That addresses and relieves pain as quickly as possible. Reduction of pain is the deciding factor that encourages more rehab. Hanging knee raises, although mentally ab focused, work on all the opposite structures, and further enhance blood flow, decompression etc. By using these two movements, starting at a level, and in a way that suits your present condition, a vicious cycle is broken and reversed. Healing begins. When pain is relieved, so is stress. Relaxation and better sleep, better healing.

However, a false sense of security often sets in. As the pain diminishes and normal range and movement returns, people think that they are healed. Kind of like getting rid of the infection in a cut. The pain is gone, but the cut still has a lot of healing to do. Ignoring that, and acting carelessly, as if all is normal, just aggravates the cut all over again, and the cycle repeats. Care is needed until the cut truly heals completely, even until the skin settles properly. Likewise with the back injury. That is one of the biggest mistakes I see. The system above can reduce pain and restore movement very quickly, and people become reckless, inviting re-injury. And scarring.

What is a scar? What are the implications of scarring, in muscles, tendon, ligaments etc. When fibres are damaged, if they heal out of alignment, a scar is formed. The thicker and more hap hazard the alignment, the thicker and bigger the scar, the bigger the problem. Because scars aren't as flexible as normally aligned fibers. So they are prone to more and more minute tearing on the edges. Think of joining a broken legrope. You introduce a stiff point, and more than likely it will break there again. So, its important to use pain as a guide, to minimize scarring. Next, I'll talk about eccentric contractions, and the role that they play in healing, and preventing and even removing scarring by realigning fibers. It’s a controversial topic, but I have around 40 years experience using and studying eccentric training.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30203295/

Hi MB, just read the above post re. email address. I've sent you an email to the Gmail address as that's the only one Ben has.
Thanks again.

That's gold, thanks Michael. I really appreciate your time on this!
That's so interesting about blood flow and scarring ....
The main thing is it's given me some hope that the discs can heal, whereas my physio just says "at least at your age the discs are drying up and won't bulge as much"
If I could just bug you with one more question:
What about sets, reps? Or would you recommend I just do as many as I can manage (probably not many at the moment I'd say)

Gidday 82shoes and Linez, I emailed swellnet, and gave them the email to contact me on. I won’t be able to answer much today but will check my email tonight. I’ll address the reps thing on here later when I talk about eccentric reps, but will explain all that, and all that you need on the phone. If you do this, it won’t just be one phone call and desert you, that will never work. I’ll give you all you need to do things properly, or I wouldn’t have offered. Have a good one.