Ronnie Vickery: In The Hot Seat
On the 23rd July, surfer Kai McKenzie was attacked by a great white at Port Macquarie. Kai survived the attack though lost his leg. In the wake of the attack, many surfers began mentioning a new site called BiteMetrix that had foreshadowed activity ("the area is hot") in the Port Macquarie region.
Since earlier this year, BiteMetrix have been doing weekly reports of the East Coast. Users can simply sign up and read them for free. However, what appears to be the most appreciated part of the BiteMetrix operation are the social media updates from co-founder Ronnie Vickery. In them, Ronnie shares the evidence that informs his decision-making. Nothing is cloaked as private, everything is presented to the reader, his decisions all made out in the open.
As it happens, BiteMetrix is a long time coming. Ronnie's had plans for many years, though only now are they beginning to solidify into something more concrete.
The final shape isn't yet known, but recently Ronnie shared with Swellnet how he got BiteMetrix to this point and his resolve to make the waters safer.
Swellnet: First of all, you're the founder, or should I say co-founder, of Bitemetrix. Is that correct?
Ronnie Vickery: That's correct, mate, yes.
Who is the other person involved?
My business partner you mean..?
Yeah.
My business partner, Mark.
Your operation began by observing the ocean through surfing and fishing.
Correct.
Are you a surfer yourself..?
Yeah…well I used to be. I surfed a lot through my teen years and into late-twenties, mainly on the Tweed Coast here. I grew up in Murwillumbah, so yeah, I've done a lot of surfing. I started out bodyboarding, catching the bus to the beach, and as soon as I got me licence, mate, we were out into it. That's where I progressed to stand up then. But yeah, mainly Tweed Coast back beaches for me, early on in the day.
OK, but you no longer surf anymore, is that correct, Ronnie?
No, mate. Just fishing these days. I'd always fished since I could walk. Mainly land-based fishing around the coast, off the rocks and the beach, and yeah, that sort of passion grew. As I got older that took over from surfing.
Either one - surfing and fishing - requires a lot of staring at the ocean.
Exactly, yes. I was in it or standing on the edge of it, looking at it, seeing what's going on. It's a great way to learn.
If they're paying attention, surfers and fishermen can build a significant body of knowledge about the ocean. When did your knowledge begin to coalesce into a deeper awareness?
For me, I started warning a few mates - my friends that continued surfing when I got more into fishing. We'd still meet up on the headland and chat about things.
I can't tell you exactly which attack it was, but in 2014 a good friend of mine, we met up on the headland. We weren't supposed to meet up, we just did. I was there to fish and he was there to surf, and anyway, we got yakking and I just told him, "Look, today's a bit hot.”
And he was like, "What do you mean?"
And I said, "Man, just have a think about it because that's what I've been picking up on."
Anyway, he ended up surfing and I went home and he rang me later on that day and said, "Mate, how in the hell did you know that was going to happen today?"
I said, "What are you talking about?"
And he told me there'd been an attack down the coast.
I explained to him, "Righto. What I'm talking about is X, Y, Z the ocean’s variables."
And he said, "Well mate, how do we tell people?"
Back then, I wasn't ready to, or even looking at, creating something from it. It was just knowledge that I had developed as a fisherman and I didn't realise how beneficial it could be to other people. Yet from that point, I got a bit more serious about the study of oceanography and those variables. Built up that knowledge over the last ten years to where I sort of got a little bit more serious about what I'm looking out for.
If you could list them, even just broadly, what are the variables you're looking at?
Well Stu, to be honest mate, everything that I'm happy to divulge is on the site. The factors that heavily contribute to me coming up with these risk factors are all in the story. And what I wanted to do is show people a limited amount of info is still enough for people to understand there is scientific research behind it. To prove what we are coming up with isn’t just the result of a bloke looking blindly at the water.
This is what's going on in the ocean. It's not a bowl of soup where one area is the same as the next, or last week was the same as this week. It always changes.
So everything that goes into me creating these risk levels is spoken about on the website.
Have you had any contact from academics working in the field?
Yes.
How have they responded to the work that you're doing?
Very positively. You can never get enough data. So I've been…not lucky, but I've established relationships with academics so I can get more data because I want more data - I always want more data.
So at the start when I thought, 'You know what, this is just too much to ignore', I went to who I considered the top of the field as far as oceanographic academics are concerned, and said, "Look, am I barking up the right tree here?"
Can you say their name?
I'd prefer not to.
Fair enough.
Yeah, like I said, I considered them the top of the pile, so I went directly to him and he tagged a lot of his colleagues in on it so we had a group discussion. They were all forthcoming with more data. A citizen scientist can only get his hands on so much, so I began filling in the gaps.
So yeah, that's how I moved forward. I did what I had to do to get the data that I needed.
So moving forward, what's in store for Bitemetrix? I mean it's a lot of work that you do. Are you going to commercialise it or do you have other plans for it?
In the twelve months prior to starting this, not only did I grab a partner, I got hold of a very good videographer slash marketing guru and we started building content. I could have continued building content, but we had to re-prioritise.
I was like, "Okay, we've got this content, that's great."
I have spent the last ten years...and I'm just being dead honest with you here mate, looking at attacks and starting to get a little bit of guilt.
I'm going, 'You know what, I don't want to hold this in anymore.'
So the thought being, ‘Let's start where we are, with what we've got. Let’s get the message out there, and just work forwards. Let's just go ."
And here we are, mate.
Many people are talking about Bitemetrix at the moment. You can't keep doing it for free forever, can you?
Well, no mate. We are looking at a number of options but at this point in time we are funding it ourselves.
Does it involve a user pays system or perhaps money from the government, such as a research grant?
As I mentioned there's a number of avenues we can take this launch. The response that we've got does determine which way we go. I cant tell you exactly which way we're going to go, but yeah, we do have options there on how we can commercialise.
That's great. Now I won't ask any more questions like that, Ronnie. How do you hope that BiteMetrix information is used? Are you hoping that it would change surfer behaviour?
Yes and no.
Yeah, go on…
One of the key outcomes is to reduce the number of attacks. We want to give people the opportunity to have an understanding of the ocean and the predators that are in it.
And like I said earlier, the ocean isn't a soup, it changes. The risk varies depending on the surrounding environment. So I want people to have an understanding of that.
OK. Now what happens if, for instance, you post that there’s a low odds for an attack and yet an attack happens. How might that factor into what you do?
Yeah, mate, that was one of the things that had held me back for so long. Something that everybody needs to have an understanding of, is there is and always will be, an element of random activity that is just untrackable. We're talking about a wild animal.
Like I said, that held me back at the start. I kept asking myself, "Well, what happens..? Am I then responsible?"
Tough questions, right?
But the fact is, if you let that hold you back, well then this information isn't going to help anybody. It has to be put out there regardless. If the information is out there, then how many have I saved prior? You know what I mean?
To be frank, Ronnie, it sounds like this information stresses you out a bit. Would that be a correct assumption?
Yeah.
It’s no surprise considering the weight of the information and the consequences that may arise.
Yeah, but like I said, the consequences are something I've already thought about and come to terms with. I sat with that for a long time and it held me back and I've moved past it. Like I said, I sort of picked the first one [shark attack] in 2014, sat with it for a long time, increased my knowledge further and sat more going, "Well, how can I get this out there? How can I educate people? What should I do?"
And I've been through that. I'm past that now.
Being silent..? I'll tell you what, on the 25th of August last year, when Toby Begg was attacked at Port Macquarie, I wanted to jump up on the rooftop and scream it out aloud.
That day was also hot, was it?
Yeah. I was watching that like a bloody hawk, that particular location, the day before I was watching it. And as soon as I heard about it, I went, "Well, that is it."
I had already had the wheels in motion prior, but that was it for me. I went, "Let's go."
And you resolved to make a good go of Bitemetrix?
Certainly did.
It seems that the Port Macquarie stretch is hot in a similar way that Lennox Ballina may have been hot 10 or so years ago. Do you have any insights into why shark attacks cluster the way that they do?
Well, a lot of research has been done since the 2015 cluster. I've heard a couple of different theories. They've come up with correlations in reports. I don't have my own particular theory about why that cluster occurred. I don't have my own particular theory why certain clusters have occurred.
It absolutely warrants further investigation, and I'm doing that also, but like you said, there is a bit that goes into my workload just to do reports. But yeah, look, Port Macquarie at this time of year, it's hot simply because of seasonality. If you go back between 2020 and now - meaning the incident this week - well there's been 1, 2, 3, 4 incidents between Port Macquarie and Crescent Head. That's not a bloody big stretch of coastline.
So straight up that there are patterns that exist that I've found just by simply looking. Combine that knowledge with acquired knowledge…you can also come up with other contributing factors that might correlate with other incidents around the country, and you progress from there. That’s just what I’ve done.
OK. Now, you mentioned other incidents around the country. You're going to be doing reports for elsewhere soon? Is that correct..?
Correct, Stu. What really became important to me, like I said before, was just getting the message out there first, that this knowledge exists and we’re building on it from there.
What’s happened so far is, we’ve got the information out there to see what the public thinks. Let's see how they respond, how they receive this, and that’ll determine which way we go.
Do you think there may be limitations if, say, you intuitively know the ocean around the Northern Rivers area, but you’re reporting on South Australia or WA? Do you think your acquired knowledge would also apply there?
Sure. Of course, I do have more information at my fingertips regarding New South Wales, but so does everybody else.
I mean, what I understand can certainly be applied nationwide.
Comments
Thanks Stu, had never heard of it living on the SC. Well done Ronnie, hopefully he makes a motza selling it to Surfline or whoever.
love to get a drone and check the channel between old women and beach front, been paddling for decades, I swear there is a shit load of whites down there...
It's a start. Just had a peek at the website and would love to see something a little more formal or quantified. It's all very 'may increase the risk of' and 'possible sign of decrease', which doesn't give the punter much to go on, especially when dealing with what are already very long odds.
I understand there's a paucity of data on this subject, and he may want to keep some of his workings close to his chest for fear of IP theft, but from the link in the above article, it's not clear that it isn't simply an informed gut decision.
There's value in an old hand who knows the sea. But in order to commercialise it long term and show that it's more than just footy tipping, I hope they put some numbers and/or specifics on how they weigh the risk factors such as upwellings, currents, sea surface temperature and so on and how that affects baseline probabilities.
If he's worried about liability, he could actually avoid making a judgment call on the risk factor and instead simply show the data and the formulas used to calculate the risk, similar to how Swellnet show their charts and workings in order to explain their forecasts. Then it's up to the customer to decide whether to trust it and how to use it.
whatta friggin interesting thing to throw into the conversation..
(usually) "cull? or put-up with ever-increasing presence?"
or.. just maybe.. eternal vigilance, research, information.
(which might, in turn inform the above questions, season to season, place to place.)
any thoughts on if a suspected rogue is in an area.. would gps-tagged-sharks be linked?
reckon you should go for a Churchill Fellowship or equivalent, and make a nth/sth america/sth african research itinerary, gleen some overseas ideas, bring them home and become world-beaters.
all I do know is, anything that makes people think beyond their local knowledge and gives us info about upwelling-foodchain-effects in real-time is onto a winner, and anyone who spends their life with the sea will resonate with: 'it's not soup'.
"Yeah…well I used to be. "
"Only a quitter knows the feeling"
@ freeride76, what did you say the other day?
I've been following it since the attack and where I live has just constantly been "high risk". Maybe more degrees of risk factors might be beneficial?
Everywhere I've lived and surfed has been high risk .
Same with me. I like the idea but if I followed the suggestions I wouldn't surf for half the year.
Constant red triangle........
From my readings of the reports, which I've been using since Kai's attack, is that the "high risk" regions mean take extra care at river mouths and estuaries (or not surf near them at all during high risk times) and be on alert elsewhere.
It's worth listening to some of the things Ronnie says in his updates.
JS, I think any day during whale/ Great White season is going to be ‘high risk’ on the Mid North Coast.
Yeah but the day of the attack was, from memory, 2ft South swell, beautiful winter morning, cold water(!) and greenish colour water, lots of pinging of the receivers. I think that's the same conditions as the attack last year so that would constitute a very high risk day.
Air pressure on both days high around 1027-1028 and 7 days earlier for both events pressure low1004 and 1005.7.
Always been fascinated by animal, bird and insect sensitivity to air pressure, example the black cockatoos always sense falling air pressure, heard them screeching a few days ago, before the rain event, the Aborigines call them the rain bird.
Read a story once about how juvenile great whites are temperature sensitive and don't like it too warm, therefore stay close to the coast on the northern rivers to avoid the warmer east Australian current which gets deflected by Point Danger and Cape Byron.
Hanging around cool water river mouths gives them an energizing hit, makes them less ''legarthic'', as my mates old man once said when he was pissed .
That’s interesting about the high barometric pressure, be worth a look back through previous data.
Freshwater fish normally come on the bite on a dropping pressure, not sure about salt water fish.
I have heard that one as well from a friend of my dads who fishes for blackfish.
I guess you could call it experiential or observational knowledge or noticing patterns.
The question I have is, has scientific enquiry ever looked into how sea creatures actually experience dropping air pressure, or is just a visual thing, pressure drops, storm clouds arrive, underwater visibility decreases, fish come up to the surface for better visibility.
More education on the rhythms of nature.
The first winter westerly the signal for the mullet to run.
Prawns run on the new moon.
One time at Crescent Head I noticed two Koori fellas fishing out on the point and they were collecting these small black crabs, which there were lots of, from under the rocks and using them for bait and were pulling in some good size bream.
Did they know at that particular time of year (crab breeding cycle) there would be lots of the crabs around and therefore lots of bream, was it handed down knowledge.
1020 fish a plenty.
Hope Ronnie can nail this down more because its pretty much white pointer season from june to october all along the coast........seems like a broad brush he's using. But the more info the better .
Whites do like certain Temps more than others
For me the colder the better.....
Doesn't explain our Feb attacks, which seem to be from sub-adult sharks.
What Month was your Stalking Freeride ?
Public Shark Report: NSW - BOULDER BEACH. 15:30, 16/02/16, 2.5m, White, Sighting from water, Andrew Gillett to Shark Reports: "Hi guys, close encounter with a juvenile Great White today at Boulders Beach, south of Lennox head. There was baitfish in the water. Shark came from below, I saw the shadow and moved. Shark breached and then followed me into the waters edge (as seen from a couple of guys on the headland..I didn't see this but as I was paddling like crazy). Size was approximately 8 feet, definitely a White as I saw the coloration along its flank. Encounter happened at approximately 3:30pm Tuesday 16th February. Thanks for the report Andrew and glad to hear you made it back to shore safely.
The Shark Reports Team"
Mine was June.
Pretty sure Tadashis attack was a large mother fucker......?
Yep, water was warm, mackerel were being caught off Ballina close reefs.
I rockfished for mackerel that morning.
I think the whole whites prefer cool water theory has been refuted by those facts.
They like between 60 to 70 f for breeding
Huge numbers being counted around Santa Cruz atm. Read an article explaining the temperature.
They whites also like long straight sand beaches
I.e Lennox after the point
Stockton, 90 mile
Long stretches of sand
Not sure why ?
Would these beaches have more stingrays? Just a thought.
Since 2020 there has been 5 fatalities due to GWS between Greenmount and Forster/Tuncurry. I don’t have the time to collate the non-fatal attacks but the number is higher again. All attacks have been between May and September. The cooler water / whale migration theory is hard to refute based on numbers.
Why start at 2020 though?
That seems arbitrary.
Tadashi was fatally attacked Feb 2015.
Sam Edwardes was severely mauled Feb 2019
Bodysurfer Raz went missing from Ballina Feb 2019 (probable shark attack).
No doubting there are a number of factors at play and there are always anomalies. I don’t think there is a doubt with the correlation between white attacks and cool water. California, South Africa, southern aust and predominantly winter attacks on the mid aust coast. The last 5 years on the MNC has been a real hotspot. Would love to think it’s a cluster or an anomaly but believe it to be the ‘new norm’ during our winter period.
Steve,
give me a shout. Can discuss an 18' white pointer we caught off Sunshine Beach in November '82 in 23° water, and a 16 1/2' white pointer we caught off Mudjimba in March '83 in 26° water, which was the maximum temperate we used to record. Those recordings were via a thermometer suspended - from memory - around 6' deep.
That was working as a deckie for Kim McK with the gov't shark meshing program. I have some pics of the 18'er too. Plus a bunch of other stats and interesting tales.
Also, when Gary Grace was attacked in 1975 at Maroochydore, the gov't contract allowed the contractors to take all meshing gear out of the water for 6 weeks every year for a break. Gary was attacked 5 weeks after the gear was taken out. The boys phoned Kim as soon as the attack occured in 5he arvo, and she went down and put the gear back in the water immediately. Caught the shark within 24 hours. 9' white pointer. Still had the chunk of foam from Garys board in its stomach. She went up to Nambour hospital with the jaws and the surfboard bit and said 'here's the jaws from that bugger and rest of your surboard back'.
1975 is almost 50 years ago. In all that time since, and as a result of that attack, the meshing gear has remained in place without a break, and there basically hasn't been an attack on S.C. beaches since. Compare that to, as I said, when the meshing equipment was removed in '75 - the last time it was ever removed - it took only 5 weeks for a close to fatal attack.
Incidentally, Gary was wearing a wetsuit which it was summised later, likely helped hold everything tight around the wound and in doing so, help slow the blood loss. Plus the shark kept returning trying to continue to attack on him on his way to shore, but his mates surrounded him and tried to ward off the shark as they paddled him in. Verdict was, on account of both the wetsuit and his mates, a fatality was most likely prevented.
I met and chatted with old Ollie Harris in Moololaba around '82 whilst working the meshing. He was the original contractor that started the S.C. program in 1962. (I am unsure how the dates coordinate, but seems likely they decided on the meshing after the fatal shark attack at Noosa in '62.)
You could check stats with DPI, but I think the average for the S.C. meshing program in recent years is a couple of hundred a year. 1982'ish I thought I remembered it was averaging around 250 to 330 per year. Ollie told me that when he first started, (in 1962, with a slow old trawler, and much less gear than the contractors are using now, and I think not even running the entire coast,) he was catching around 60-70 sharks per day.
That's how and why the nets work, and why they don't need to be a total or enclosed barrier. The majority of sharks in any location like that are local-territorial, and so within that localised area - and only within that localised area- they get thinned right out, after which it is just the transient ones that come through.
JP.
A close encounter filmed underwater.........
&t=6sThat was definitely some 'fuck off' agonistic behaviour after its initial enquiry.
How’s that split second when he lifts his head out of the water, yells out, puts his head back in the water ….and can’t see it :-o
No Way would i have Swam back to the Boat....Fark that...
At some point udo. You got to get back in ..... lolo
Yeah, wow, would have tried to call in another boat.
Phone a friend......Eddie.
Thought it was weird he kept telling his girl to swim to shore .........
# bait
Jody great story .
Spearing north of the Julian Rocks back in 82 we were approached by a 15-16ft white and that was in November.....pretty sure it was pregnant cause it was so fat......and did i mention large....cant remember the water temp if was warm or not.
Probably was after you peed yourself Simba.
Thanks Jody for taking the time with a brilliant first hand comment.
As an aside-
'a chunk of surfboard still in its gut'
It's not going to break down? Can a shark 'pass' something like that? Would that be a slow horrible death?
Obviously they bite first and ask questions later but we are a non-prefered menu item for gws.
Just got to let them know somehow?
Sharks can evert their stomachs, basically turning it inside out, to get rid of stuff they can't digest.
Evert you say
Clever
I think I learned that at Schoolies
StandingLeft,
regarding the query about the surfboard bit in its gut, I was always under the impression that they could just regurgitate and spit out stuff they didn't want - bring it back up. I could be mistaken.
Which reminds me - the meshing program back then, every known species of maneater shark over 4', she had to kill and cut open and check the stomach contents for the possibility of human remains. And whereas other sharks, Tiger sharks in particular come to mind, you can find anything food or otherwise in their stomachs, Kim once mentioned that white pointers, she only ever found really high quality fish, baby dolphins etc, inside them.
On that note it seems more likely that considering the entire skeleton of something like a huge fish or small dolphin, it would be easier for them to just bring it back up and spit it out, rather than try to break down?
A marine biologist might know.
What's inside a Shark
Fascinating subject and talk about raw data.
Was it in Jaws, they pull out a road sign? We're led to believe they eat anything, bull sharks do I guess, gws seem more specific
Interesting, there is also a theory that white sharks will regurgitate lower quality food in favour of better fare if they come across it, an observation made during whale carcass scavenging I believe.
That is a highly evolved predator.
Dinner A is optional.
That rotting whale didn't go down so good. Think I'll swap it for a baby Dolphin.
our kids have got it good
Really high quality fish- like tuna, mackerel? High speed fish. How do they catch them?
Great stuff
I usually check and see if I can hear or see seals in the water before I paddle out.
Seals in the water round here I feel way safer,
Last November I paddled out on my 8'0" on a small day no seals
I caught two waves then this fin just cut through the water about 30 feet outside of me
.....Next wave in , just straight in
The way it moved through that water it just ment business.
I was a little spooked after that.
@lanky "Seals in the water round here I feel way safer" you should come to SA Lanky you'd feel real safe.
I have , in time past gone.
if a seal is in the impact zone between me and the beach i figure it is using me as a decoy! If they just lolling about im not worried as much, but they are a link in the food chain..
I wish great success for this app. Anything that can make the ccean safer for all users is a good thing.
I can't help but think insurance companies being the grubs they are might try and use this is the future to negate paying out or minimising paying out in the event of an incident occuring on a 'high risk' day.
Not sure if insurance companies have anything to do with shark attacks ....?
I can't give a specific example but I believe some life insurance policies may reduce the overall benefit if they can prove contributory negligence.
Best way to make the ocean safer would be to start building netted surfing reefs, some of the best places to build surfing reefs on the east coast, are on the north sides of river mouth break walls.
Maybe it's time surfers started caring about each other and seeing ourselves as an interconnected tribe.
First netted surfing reef I would build would be on the north side of the Port Macquarie break wall. Superimpose the 'Superbank formula' and you get a 300 metre long peeling right hander 40 degree peel angle.
You could even light the place up with underwater lighting for night surfing.
This is their zone , humans spend far too little time in the ocean .
Would create a significant boating hazard.
Just seems futile really.
I always wondered about the nets being used.
What do sharks think?
That's probably my most interesting thought I can come up with?
Will we co exist over time (like dogs, cats, ,horses)
I spent alot of time freediving on outer reefs , in bays , rock pools, and zones between reefs
Pending where I am I see not much or alot of marine life.
How's the fish stocks on the east coast right now ? Plenty of bait balls ?
Story time....
One time I was a little way down to coast surfing with a mate who also dives. We get out from a surf and he sees this giant bait ball. Grabs his gear(fins ,spear which he has in the car) and runs down then swims way out past the sandbank to reach the bait ball. He swims right in the middle of it and starts screaming.
I am up higher than the beach and watch all this commotion I run down to the waters edge the whole time thinking a shark had bit him he gets close to the shore and yells out his hand spear strap broke.
Such a relief for me ......
Yeah....no thanks. Why not build a few highrise hotels to accommodate all the visitors.
Good way to ruin the area even more.
Or you could think laterally and not cynically and keep the place exactly as it is now, and people pay to get transported across the river from the Port Macquarie side, which means a business for someone, some of the payment would go to net maintenance, also on the nets you would have electronic shark shields to hopefully stop fish and marine creature entanglement, and illuminated bouys to warn boaties.
Can I ask how you would deal with the ever increasing crowded surf problem, lack of quality surf breaks and future inevitable shark attacks.
Something I have always been curious about ''What does the collective surfing mind want'', what if you could ask the whole surfing tribe this question , what would the consensus be.
Adam Curtis quote.
HyperNormalisation "How we got to this strange time of great uncertainty and confusion where those who are supposed to be in power are paralysed and have no idea what to do".
For the crowding they should make SE facing otherwise dogshit beachies better. How? By replicating the ones that are good due to the offshore reefs. There's several examples on the east coast and I've always thought that it would be easily replicated by dumping a bunch of rocks in a shipping container at the right depth/angle. All the good beachies I've surfed have been those types or breakwalls which do the same thing by moving the bar offshore in a fixed location and the swell refracts off that (I think!, could be wrong. But there's only one breakwall I can think of that makes the swell bounce off it).
Probably would attract more sharks though!
Sounds similar to Andrew Pitts surfing ramps which is a brilliant and cheap way to break up or fragment a line of swell.
Your idea of making something similar as a solid structure makes sense.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/sand-slug-gives-surfers-hitting-the-...
There is no "they'', it's up to us, hence why the first step would be to ask the surfing tribe what kind of surfing future they want.
It's weird how it's a taboo subject.
It's a great start, but it is currently far too vague. That is not a shot at all at Ronnie or the current iteration of the system/algos/software. It's the best (only) of its kind. It just needs more funds to keep developing and refining such that it can provide far more locational and risk-specific specificity. This would require better quality data and far more man power. In order to keep it publicly accessible and free, would it be viable for bitemetrix to contract for state governments? Each government could effectively fund a state-specific team of people trained to crunch the data based on Bitemetrix's parameters in order to release detailed site specific reports for smaller stretches of coast in each state? A data driven predictive model like this can only improve over time as it collects more and more historical observation of cause and effect between data and observed outcomes. Government should be able to help them with backend access to far more oceanographic and meteorological data and If tagging data and reported confirmed sightings were also included it could become extremely powerful in the future.
Anyone have any idea why Shark Attacks are so rare in NZ?
More food , seals around, less people surfing ?
Seal population is booming here over the last ten years or so. They are starting to bounce back big time from historical sealing. Amazing it's taken so long.
If you've ever done basic ecology predator prey relationships would suggest we can expect a big bounce back in predator numbers. Puts the shits up me. Depends how much the GWs rely on seals in their diet I guess.
We see a lot of dead seals washed up fortunately I've never seen any with bite marks. One surf I had two dead pups wash past me in the line up. Not happy times 300m out on a reef.
https://www.doc.govt.nz/nature/native-animals/marine-fish-and-reptiles/s...
Um 5 ‘million people vs 28 million and of your five how many surf, maybe thousands if that…..
Don’t know how correct this fact is but I think it paints the picture
“It is estimated that there are between 6 - 15 million person visits or individual surf sessions per year on the Gold Coast”
Um 5 ‘million people vs 28 million and of your five how many surf, maybe thousands if that…..
Don’t know how correct this fact is but I think it paints the picture
“It is estimated that there are between 6 - 15 million person visits or individual surf sessions per year on the Gold Coast”
Yeah, that's gotta be part of the picture, but maybe not all of it. For example there are consistently crowded parts of NZ such as Raglan where shark attacks on surfers are unheard of. It was interesting reading the above article about Great Whites in NZ. They mostly seem to live in Stewart Island and The Chatham Islands while in NZ; both rarely surfed locations. (I have surfed on Stewart Island... felt pretty sketchy, but I saw no sharks)
Because most NZer's live in Australia now?
Yeah, even our sharks have left. Last one out turn off the lights!
What time of day was Kai’s recent attack? Was it a smooth,
Small day?
Approx 11am -Small and Crystal Clear.
Similar conditions to the two previous attacks in Port Macquarie and the one in Tuncurry.
North Wall Port Macquarie and Tuncurry are both similar set ups, long stretch of beach good for rays for the younger Great Whites, adjoining a river mouth.
So, so many of these attacks have been crystal clear, small conditions and late morning.
The above appear to be prime white encounter conditions.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/aug/17/dave-pearson...
I dont think you could put anything but high risk during winter aling the MNC regardless of up wellings .Mullet .Bait Fish Tailor Salmon Whales fuck do you really need an app to tell you the risk is up paticually on the small days on open beaches when your sitting there tea bagging often in uncrowded surf ..
Correct. You paddle out beyond waist deep, there’s your risk. We all know it. We all accept it. Nothing you can do to stop this kind of thing. There’s a reason we’re still so befuddled by a white shark’s behaviour.
Keep going Ronnie, with all that new data, you surely will get closer to something more tangible and predictable....I am sure there is a combo of factors that will give the red flag more definitively. e.g. think of other fishing factors like moon cycles, tide, synoptics, barometer movements, overlayed with upwellings, local conditions (rain/bait/whales) pop it on an app, slap it on your wrist (watch).......i'd buy it.
Yeah I'd have to agree with that frequency around the cooler months being higher risk. I've never seen the interactions with whites this bad at home, ever. I'm talking almost daily right now. This last July and through August so far has been mental. A bloke got knocked off his board and somehow came away unscathed a week or so before Kai's incident. And the comment above about long sandy beaches.....same here. I've got plenty of drone footage showing them getting aroused when they see a sand ray bail in front of them, and on nearly every occasion it's on Tuncurry Beach (9 mile) or down along 7 mile beach where its barron for a hell of a long way.
You in port or foster ? @ Dan k
Forster mate
That's another bloke's footage, but this was from July 2023. Blue Pilchards banked themselves off Tuncurry Beach. Stayed there for 8 days straight.....Whites, Bronzy's, Bulls and about 500 longtail tuna. I got some wild footage from it. A mate spun a longtail off the back of a white shark. They were flanking it like cobia do.
<script async src="//www.instagram.com/embed.js"></script>
The water was around 18' here last week and still longtail hanging around smashing garfish off the surface. Each year the longtail season seems to stretch out longer and longer. 4-5yrs ago you'd pack up the Land Based fishing gear at the end of June here, but now it's at the ready even now. One was caught end of September last year which is pretty nuts. Couple that with the whales heading south with calves and there's really no reason to expect the white's to move off in a hurry either.
Dan K ...What did you think of Kai Attack Footage ?
Dunno about Dan, but it was enough for me to buy a shark band, given the similarity of location (long stretch of sand, mostly empty of bodies). The idea to discourage a curious shark....under no illusions a hungry fella would just push through the magnetic influence.
The footage was heavy, although grainy, it looked like a heap of wash or whitewater behind Kai and the shark, like remnants of a previous struggle..
I rarely surf now mate, primarily due to the whole white shark stuff at home. What was once a surf-related purchase is now a fishing-related purchase.
I noticed the same whitewater disturbance too. I'm just glad the footage cuts out when it does.
I think if there's one thing it's probably taught us it's that you don't paddle and splash frantically as it just creates arousal. I mean when you're actually put in that situation like Kai was it's easier said on a keyboard than in the moment. At the start of the clip you can see beyond Kai that there was already disturbed water as if the shark had swiftly turned around to have a go, or it was Kai's trail he'd already left behind from paddling....I guess only he knows, we can only speculate.
But the reports of 3 metres seem far fetched once you see how big the fin was. It almost looked fake it was so big.
As for the cons, almost identical type of day to when Mark was killed at Tunners. They type of day you don't think you're ever gonna get attacked by a shark.
How much did you Fork out for this Magnetic Fraud ?
Shocked to see Bethany H endorsing it . . .
"With Sharkbanz I feel a deep sense of calm"
We're so proud to partner with Bethany on our first Signature Edition line of our core 'Sharkbanz 2' product and to promote mindfulness in all areas of our lives.
FFS
One fiddy for the sharkban
Like said before, usually the only one in the water (on a long secluded stretch of beach) so if there is an inquisitive whitey in the water, its just me. Anything to make me less appealing or discourage an enquiry on my foot, I'll give it a go.
I can't imagine anything would stop a big bopper in full flight.
Spent some time surfing Cactus and there were some rules to survival the locals had, like don't let your dog sleep on your wetty and no pissing :-) or paddle from Caves to castles :-) or surf by yourself...the list goes on....
Some links below
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2023-06-24/when-it-comes-to-shark-de...
https://beachgrit.com/2016/03/just-in-do-shark-repellants-work/
http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/2015/05/a-new-bracelet-scam-that-will-tak...
Jack Perry Mr Modom no Longers Sells them. . .
?si=InO3eX6PZ6UfFc7zHa i Wonder Why
"Our study reveals that while one of the deterrents reduces the probability of white sharks consuming the bait (Surf+), the other four deterrents had limited effects on white shark behaviour.
Neither the SharkBanz bracelet nor leash affected the behaviour of white sharks or reduced the percentage of baits taken."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6120439/
Pretty compelling data in that research, great info Fliplid and Udo.
Though what better way to attract and promote an interaction with a shark, than a stinky, bloody bait :-) truly the best way to test these theories and products, I suppose.
Given that surfers generally are not bleeding or presenting raw flesh, is this a different scenario from when a shark inspects an item that is not clearly food??
It's these enquiries (from juvenile sharks) I'm about discouraging, as they seem more common than full-blown attacks, though both have horrific results.
Anywho, what do you do :-)
Any time I'm sitting alone in the water at a remote spot I sing out loud to myself.
Haven't been attacked yet.
Hypothesis: Out of key trilling scares them off.
hahahaha, unreal!
(would be my song of choice):
If you see me surfing down the beach
And I start to piss myself
Each time we meet
Swim on by ...
Got three minutes of the best keyboard solo and extended jam in Punk to survive though
I like the premise - more info the better. Yet as mentioned above, think it currently lacks legitimacy. There's simply no proof it works. As a consumer, I'd want more evidence before I pull out the wallet
I agree. A great initiative and hopefully a good supplementary product towards avoiding shark attacks. But from the vagueness of the answers in the interview and lack of proven evidence (based on the website and interview), it seems hard to accept that it works.
It is always tricky to form statistics for shark attacks as they are such rare events. All the patterns/theories from 15 years ago (avoid dusk, dawn, rivermouths, etc) seem to be frequently challenged (though not disproved).
Good luck to Ronnie and hopefully it proves to be a working solution one day.
Good on you Ronnie! Huge respect for anyone taking a pro active approach to help save other peoples lives.
I'm still baffled that we don't have a national register of conditions/factors for every single shark attack. Things like time of day, water quality, currents, marine activity, did the surfer piss in their wetsuit?, were sharks seen in the area recently, what colour board/wetsuit.....etc etc etc.
We could build up a decent little database to start being able to see possible patterns and take action to avoid those patterns. As mentioned above, the theory about attacks in mid morning, bright sunshine and warm water by Pointers is knowledge to a few on here, but not supported by evidence because there's no database of all these factors in one centralised place that we can pull up on the click of one webpage.
Having said that, they're erratic fuckers and there probably are no real discernable patterns.
Keep up the good work Ronnie. If you need input from WA feel free to get in touch.
Newcastle beaches closed atm because of shark sightings. Hardly anyone knows it seems.
Really ?
Plenty of sharks in newy, most on land......the place is a breeding ground though.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41597-022-01453-9#Sec2
Everyone has their own tolerance for risk but we do now have real-time data from the shark tagging and listening station array on the coast.
And it's hot as hell right now. White sharks regularly pinging receivers here every day.
DPI Fisheries advise: tagged White Shark #2307 detected by Ballina receiver at 08:20:31 AM (AEST) on 19-August-2024. Last detected at 08:16:21 AM (AEST) on 19-August-2024 by Ballina receiver.
DPI Fisheries advise: tagged White Shark #2307 detected by Sharpes Beach receiver at 12:53:10 AM (AEST) on 19-August-2024. Last detected at 12:51:17 AM (AEST) on 19-August-2024 by Sharpes Beach receiver.
DPI Fisheries advise: tagged White Shark #2260 detected by Sharpes Beach receiver at 11:32:23 PM (AEST) on 18-August-2024. Last detected at 11:23:39 PM (AEST) on 18-August-2024 by Sharpes Beach receiver.Tagged and released 29-June-2024(AEST) at Middle Camp Beach, Lake Macquarie.
DPI Fisheries advise: tagged White Shark #2268 detected by Sharpes Beach receiver at 05:22:12 PM (AEST) on 18-August-2024. Last detected at 05:10:41 PM (AEST) on 18-August-2024 by Sharpes Beach receiver.Tagged and released 06-July-2024(AEST) at Blacksmiths Beach, Lake Macquarie.
DPI Fisheries advise: tagged White Shark #2260 detected by Sharpes Beach receiver at 07:25:34 AM (AEST) on 18-August-2024. Last detected at 07:16:13 AM (AEST) on 18-August-2024 by Sharpes Beach receiver.Tagged and released 29-June-2024(AEST) at Middle Camp Beach, Lake Macquarie.
DPI Fisheries advise: tagged White Shark #2314 detected by Sharpes Beach receiver at 06:15:00 AM (AEST) on 18-August-2024. Last detected at 06:13:56 AM (AEST) on 18-August-2024 by Sharpes Beach receiver.
Multiple juveys caught on the smart drums in the last week.
With the banks pretty shithouse and the surf being marginal I'm just spending less time surfing.
Quicker surfs and no way I'm surfing outer bank beachies.
I surf with the local shark contractor a lot and as he says " all the info is there now for you to make a risk assessment".
I went surfing yesterday and it 'felt' sharky but I was surfing a shitty shorey 50m off the beach so I felt safe.
I also checked another spot, a known sharky spot and there were about a million dolphins out and about. Big nope going out there.
"I surf with the local shark contractor a lot"......that in itself must give you an unrealistic sense of safety Freeride? If that's me then my brain's saying "well if you're out here it can't be that bad!" haha.
No, he gives accurate real time info.
If he says there is a 10 footer patrolling the point , then it's true.
I'm not questioning his reporting. I meant if that bloke's job is releasing whites at the local but he's still in the lineup then my mind tries to convince me everything's honkey dorey.
i mate i know sent a video last week of a part whale carcass floating inside the new bar at caloundra,
Good on you Ronnie - at the start of any new industry there are inevitably gaping chasms in the data and therefore conclusions that can drawn. It's also impossible for me to imagine the data set can ever be perfect, due to the constantly changing nature of the inputs. So indicative science is all we can hope for, for the shark mitigation industry IMO.
I also think that cooperation between species is where we should spend time our too; for example, the "don't panic, 'coz kicking up a lot of action leads to arousal in the predator" has now evolved into relevant shared knowledge on situational mitigation that should be acted on if you are (unfortunately attacked)..I hope I can be that cool-headed guy if that's me, 'coz that's what's required...
Speaking of guys with cool heads, would be good to hear from the German surfer who was 'stalked' by gws at Cathedral. (Christian, was that his name?)
He fought it off, repeatedly. Poked it in the nose with his board I believe
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-29/surfer-fends-off-shark-near-lorne...
Marcel, thx, very cool customer
That’s a super unusual account of an encounter.
Saying the 3m white had a ‘bit of a nibble’. Thing played with him for like a minute?
Very lucky boy. Thing must’ve been in curious mode, not attack