ASP: Back to the future?
While I couldn’t agree with all of his conclusions, I thought Stu Nettle’s analysis of the ASP World Tour’s financial situation and disappointing viewership was a fine piece of journalism, presenting a case concisely in plain English. As far as I’m aware the ASP has not responded (and this new lot do like to play their cards close to their chests) so the statistics and the analysis must have been spot on.
What I found so shocking about the revelations of paltry concurrent viewership (and if there was another measure that proved otherwise I’m sure we would have heard about it by now) is that, a) after all these years of trying, surfing is still so far away from being a mainstream sport that, b) it proves that all those smartarses in suits were right. Our dream was just that: a dream.
When I wrote about the ZoSea deal in this space 18 months ago, I interviewed Fox Sports supremo David Hill, who put surfing on in prime time 35 years ago, and the late Ian Frykberg, who tried and failed (where he had succeeded with just about every major team sport) to cut surfing a mega TV deal in the ‘90s. Both had gone on to stellar success in mainstream sports television. Both still said in 2012 that, despite new technologies, multiple platforms and interfaces, convergence, you name it, surfing was still destined to never be more than a third tier sport in media terms.
I wondered then if third tier media results would be enough for ZoSea to pay the freight. Stu noted last month that ZoSea was in need of “some serious bank”. The question still begs.
The immediate problem for ASP is that while it is delivering on its promises to the surfers (prize money increases for the men, huge increases for the girls, picking up the tab for unbranded tour events, and a lot more), the general public is not paying much attention and prospective sponsors are taking note of this. It’s a brave business model, that’s for sure, and if it fails, it’s difficult to see where pro surfing goes from here. Which of the surf brands could afford to join the bail-out this time round?
It was interesting to note Stu’s informed estimate of ASP annual running costs at $100 million. Even if you’re a skeptic and you halve that to $50 million, that’s a big chunk of change when you consider that only 15 of 21 tour events have sponsors (each contributing on average considerably less than a million bucks), and that the late announcement of both Samsung Galaxy and Go Pro tour sponsorships reeks of discount deals.
It’s a nasty business but we’ve been here before, minus a few noughts. “Is there a future for pro surfing?” I asked in Surfer Magazine in May 1980. IPS boss Randy Rarick told me he needed $11,000 a year to cover running costs on top of the tour events, but the sponsors were baulking at increased sanction fees. The problem, then as now, was America. I wrote: “In 1980, more than 60 percent of the circuit prize money emanates from Australia, and while this is a matter of considerable national pride, it is not in the interest of international credibility. With a population of only 14 million and a suspect economic outlook for the 1980s, Australia is almost groaning under the weight.”
The IPS tour had come quite a way in a short time (from $5,000 minimum purse in 1976 to $15,000 in 1980) but already surfing’s inherent problems were becoming painfully obvious. Pan Am took naming rights but bailed after one year, then Rolex did the same – and this was way back when we thought “non-endemics” were things that gave you a nasty little rash!
When ASP picked up the reins from IPS a whole new chapter began, but the financial story has remained much the same. If the surf industry is on a roll, we don’t much care if no one else is paying attention. But if it’s not, then it all goes back to who is going to foot the bill for a sport still perceived as fringe by too many people in too many markets that matter.
Who would have thought that surfing’s glory days may well have been at the very beginning, half a century ago, when Australia’s biggest petroleum company sponsored a world title that drew 60,000 spectators to the beach and 400,000 viewers to its live telecast on free-to-air broadcast television.
What would we give to go back to the future? A final locked into 3pm Sunday..? //PHIL JARRATT
Comments
And are we all secretly waiting for the "new deal" to cataclysmic unravel and surfing to go back to being a cottage industry, one that we can still relate to?
Or is it just me?
Doubt the dissapearance of the ASP - if that could even happen - is gonna cause the billion dollar surf industry to revert back to cottage status.
It's a pleasant dream though and I'm not totally unprepared. I've got an old singley, beavertail wetty, and scratched vinyl copy of Harvest ready to play when the revolution comes.
The move to public ownership also puts serious constraints on the surfing industry's ability to bail out the tour. Public ownership means accountability for the promotional budget! Interesting that nobody has mentioned Coca Cola who were actually responsible in my view for a large part of the surf clothing industry's initial success. Putting surfing on a million billboards world wide gave them a level of exposure they could never otherwise have achieved.
Bottom line for me is that the ASP format for comps is so boring. If they ever want to get close to the numbers they want watching they are seriously going to have to mix it up. The reality is that surfing does not need a world tour to keep the "sport " progressing. Look at skateboarding , so progressive with no world tour spankery.
Man on man heats are so so lame. Why not have a jam format with 10 surfers in each heat, going for it snaking each other and dropping in creating some exciting viewing. Even last years super pipe showdown was really boring. Even with slater and JJ it was dissapointing entertainment. The ASP with their format for comps are really validating what a lot already think, its one big yawn fest.
Totally agree! New formats (eg 6-man hour long heats) would also allow comp durations reduced and budgets slashed.
The ASP needs to settle on a format where an entire comp can be squeezed into the 2-day window of an average swell event. This means less heats run in marginal conditions, and less good waves wasted.
Stu, I'm with you there. Have built up an extensive seed bank of 3 different types of pumpkin (butternut, jap, and another one) just in case the fallout affects fuel supplies.
Blindboy - very interesting comment about coke selling the dream and seeding the industry.
IMHO, the "product" is wrong for the mainstream due to the variables that produce that product. So, the solution is to reduce the impact of the variables. Broken record here, but, elite athletes in epic waves is the only solution; reduce the number of surfers, make the events fit into swell / conditions, telecast it as it unfolds but replay it in prime time. Too simple?
I guess we'll get an idea ---> Red Bull Cape Fear?
And we're already nine weeks into a fourteen week waiting period, yet the event hasn't been run.
Don't get me wrong - the RBCF event is a great idea and will work well for its intended purpose (when it is eventually given the green light) but I don't think it does much to fit into the general format of mainstream sports broadcast.
My guess: at the end of the day, we'll probably see a similar level of live viewership as per ASP events, the highlights reel (predominantly the worst wipeouts and injuries) will make mainstream news around the world (on par with most Red Bull events), a number of surfing/sporting websites will run highlight clips shortly afterwards. Then a couple of weeks after the event was run, it'll all be forgotten.
Fair call.
But, what if there is a 'series' of events running. Let's say Cloudbreak is firing now ... so top 16, couple of wild cards, scoring it going nuts, keeping the viewers engaged while the "cape fear" event waits for the right conditions. And, if Jbay or wherever else fires, again, head off with the top 16 and a couple of event based wildcards, score that ...
Telecast them live, and reel out the footage to the mainstream media to replay, and fill in the 'sports' section of the news bulletins.
It could be a surfing frenzy!
The "product" would be very different. What's the the sponsorship appeal when footage of these "events" is hitting main stream news coverage every night? Replays across the various sports channels.
Through in some technology, like the GPS tracking stuff for speed, etc, and maybe G forces in turns measured off the fins, board or whatever and you have some serious engagement for a lot of people who may not surf, and great entertainment for those who do.
Downside? I wonder how the girls 'product' will go if the mens becomes a totally different beast.
But what happens to Joe Average that saved his wage for a two week holiday in Fiji only to get punted off the reef? The same could be said for anywhere else on the random calendar: J'Bay, Chopes, Pipe etc etc. Unfortunately the ASP has to lock in short waiting periods at the premiere waves lest they piss off the recreational surfers who holiday there. Leave alone the locals who wont give up marquee days easily.
It's another conundrum the ASP has to solve.
I'd think that Joe Average is stoked if he gets to see his favorite surfers tearing apart epic waves in the flesh - especially if it is only for one or two days (ie if the ASP came up with a new hit-and-run format for running comps) and he can go back to surfing as normal the next day. It's only after a week straight of being told to exit the water at 7am, or watching endless perfect waves go un-ridden because the only 2 people in the water are playing priority cat-and-mouse, that Joe Average will get pissed off.
Besides, all these surf zones have other options anyway.
With all due respect Johnson, if you believe that then you're out of touch with the average surfer.
How so? How many times have you stayed at Momi's and come across guests - those who fit into the average surfer category - who are pumped that the Cloudbreak WCT is running that week (There's an ASP event here now? Cool!)? Or at Turtle Bay, or the Sharks Cove Backpackers? Or At Komune (Gold Coast, not Keramas). I can say, after travelling to all these places and more following the tour as a freelancer, that all the guests there were stoked to see the event running, even if they were not even aware of it beforehand.
Keep in mind the average surfer - heck, even many accomplished surfers - do not want to surf Pipeline or Cloudbreak when it is 10-12ft. If you believe that, then it is you who is out of touch with the 'average surfer'.
OK, fair enough, that's your experience, and that's what we base our decisions on - our experience.
Me, I can't think of a single friend who would give up pumping J'Bay, Pipe, Chopes (well maybe Chopes), P'Pass, or any other marquee wave to watch the pros surf. They'd surf with them, but not sacrifice a day out of their annual leave at a spot they paid big bucks to visit just to watch someone else surf it.
That's my experience.
The 'hit and run' format might only be two days long, but I can tell ya that the 32 WT surfers plus the 100-strong crew (support teams, managers, webcast crew, ASP officials) won't fly out from Fiji the day after the comp ends - they'll hang around for a few days free surfing, if not a week or two. And they'll arrive three or four days in advance too.
I can see some interesting legal complications coming up if the ASP ever decided on this kind of competition format. Take Cloudbreak for example - it's a selling point for most Fijian surf trips, and there are some very expensive Fiji holiday options on offer (been looking recently meself).
If the opportunity to surf Cloudbreak was denied to someone who'd shelled out $10K for a week's holiday, I think it'd be plausible that surf travel operators could end up in all kinds of problems as disgruntled surfers (rightly or wrongly) look for compensation.
Aha - it seems you've touched upon a subject I addressed in a response lower down.
And it's simple. Run it like a business, not like a holiday for a few industry bros and their mates. Trim the fat. Get rid of redundant staff (believe me, there are a lot of them). Give the jobs to people who can do them professionally and efficiently, not to some ex-pro or industry clinger-on as is often currently the case.
Book the flights in and out with minimal time on location (ie reduce accommodation costs, like any other sensible business would). Make your crew actually work while they are there (not surf). If the crew want to extend their trip for recreation purposes outside of what the ASP provides for them, that's fine, but it puts them in exactly the same boat as guy "who'd shelled out $10K for a week's holiday."
I've seen smaller ASP events run with a staff of about 8. Add an efficient scaled down webcast crew to that and you have 15 max total (Exceptions for locations like Snapper/Rio where they need security escorts & traffic control, etc). It is doable, but those in the industry will cry foul and deny it is possible because they don't want to lost their free ride.
Of course ,all of this is ignoring the fact that my "hit and run" remark was taken far too literally. Extend current waiting periods by 10 days. Reduce the time required to run the event. Problem solved.
An ASP World Tour event run with just a staff of 15?
Minus five or six judges and you're left with less than ten people to run an event that currently costs around $3 million for five event days.
You're gonna need a lot more people than that.
Hang on, remember, less surfers, better locations, so no need for a lot of the 'infrastructure' ... no scaffolding, or other stuff, simple facilities which can be handled by charter boats and mobile land based infrastructure.
For land based events, I'm thinking a set up like the each V8 super car team uses; mobile, back of a semi type set up. A more mobile condensed version for the water based or exotic locations.
As for the crew side of things, look at it this way ... how many people are needed to shoot a surf film? And, geez, we've all seen the footage from some of the 'surf trips' and you can't complain about the quality.
Who says we need 5 judges? Why not reduce it to 3 ... one head judge, one location specific and say one surfers appointed judge. And, what if the judging was completed AFTER the event was run, filmed, etc ... ??? So, judges, review 'best waves' from the day, allocate points / scores, top 4 surfers who scored most points over say their top 5 waves in the previous day are then sent out the next day in the peak conditions for a 4 man heat, scored as it unfolds, for say a two hour surf session ...
Have we a different, more appealing "product" now?
But it won't cost anywhere near 3 million if you reduce the duration, infrastructure & staff. You're talking about the chicken and the egg here.
Though I admit I forgot to account for the judges. So make it 18-20 staff max. In this day and age though, how many of these people actually need to be on site? The judges and web commentators could operate from anywhere in the world via live feeds.
Johnson , judging by your comments and the use of the word " heck " I'm hazarding a guess that you're from the USA , in that case you may be unaware or In denial that in Australia we don't really give a fuck about the requirements of private business if it impinges on our public spaces .
You may get away with it after due forewarning at spots like Snapper , Bells and even Margies where industry has a hold over enough of the politicians and influential citizenry to make an event possible. But I reckon if you tried to usurp the day of the year from the average man in the street at even spots like these without due diligence you'd be in for a shitfight .
I do concur blowin.
Let me pose you this question, Blowin - would you rather miss out on one day of great waves in a month at a single break, or every day of rideable waves (ie everything from "pumping" to "contestable") for two weeks straight, and where every other break nearby is overrun with pro's warming up or freesurfing with their entire entourage?
Your assumption was wrong, by the way.
Hang on, first up, not 32 surfers ... 16, and a couple of wild cards. Mens and Womens 'events' no longer run together ... reduced number of competitors so event runs quicker, competition in best conditions.
And, as Johnson, says, keep it lean and mean for the operations crew.
I'd think this 'new concept' would still run to some sort of schedule ... best waves, world class, in their peak season to set the 'waiting period' for that "event". Get in and run it in a day, two days max ...
Sure, the surfers and crew might hang around, but, the numbers a greatly reduced for any impact on the "average joe" having his annual holiday at that destination, and besides, he'll know in advance when the locations 'event window / waiting period' is scheduled. Avoid the area if you're concerned at that time of year. No different to the schedule now, but just more flexible, quicker to run and reduces the impacts of the variables so the best conditions are surfed.
"Have built up an extensive seed bank of 3 different types of pumpkin (butternut, jap, and another one) just in case the fallout affects fuel supplies."
You can make petrol out of pumpkins??
I went for a surf this morning but it was tiny and I walked back home without catching a wave. I'll tolerate that uncertainty as recreation, however none of us will cop it when it comes to pro sport.
Smashing!
TTBB - well now that you mention it, yes - I believe you can.
(back to the shed to tend the distiller)
not petrol but you could ferment them to make alcohol and use that as a fuel.....which just goes to demonstrate how fascinated we all are by pro surfing!
People get paid to go surfing?!?
Get rid of pro surfing completely.
Don't we already have enough surfers in the water.
Never understood why you need to push it to the mainstream.
Very difficult to build more surfspots but very easy to create new footy fields.
I reckon Inzider has got it sorted... competition is so boring to watch. Two people in the water, one has priority and is leading, doing his best to not let anyone catch waves. I would rather lean over the fence at the local beach on any Sunday and watch the locals ripping every wave.
The other thing too is who really wants surfing to become mainstream - it's busy enough down there.
"Who really wants surfing to become mainstream?" Those that want to make money out of it — that's all.
Spot on, JM!
When they get decent wave pools then competitive Surfing will have found a home, and who knows how popular the Pepsi max indoor pool tour will become.
Seems the only logical long term solution....except we haven't got one. TV would be on board, xgames etc....
From an anthropological perspective I see the problem. Surfing has split into many sub cultures, the comp culture is now trying to legitimize and survive by having a corporate model that promotes a very manufactured image of surfing( how many ugly people are on the tour?). This corporate model is what has helped surfing hit mainstream consumerisms. Surfing is no longer a counter culture for societal rebels. It is a product to be flogged at the market. As other people have said, why do we want more people in our sand pit playing with our toys, truth is most of us dont, good waves are a scarce resource. Yet it seems to be that the capitalist machine is reaming every hoop availible (hipsters, single fins, Sups, blah fuckin blah)
Nothing is sacred, however we cant be what we were(some can), dole bludging weed smoking beer drinkin, mushroom eating lifestyle choicers.
Lookiing back on my early surfing memories of lazy uncrowded mid week sessions reeferd up to the hilt , it makes me realise , the older I get, the better it was.
I think that the ZoSea ASP approached the whole restructuring from an angle which was doomed to fail. They're trying to make the sport look legitimate in order to attract legitimate sponsors - what they should be doing is making the events fit the current economic climate within the industry. Shorter event run-times, fewer crew working on them, slightly less prize money for the top tiered places (but leave it the same at the bottom for those guys who actually need the prize money to even make it to the next event) and less infrastructure on the beach.
Sure, the pros might whinge a bit if they no longer get a no-losers round, or if they have to share a locker with another bloke, but I think they'd rather that to the total demise of their professional sport.
Regarding hiring fewer crew, everything would be run a whole lot better if they actually hired people who knew what they were doing. Having been to quite a few ASP events over the years I've noticed an absolute surplus of event staff doing not much at all, and usually it seems to be because 'so-and-so hooked up his mates brother a cushy job for two weeks while the tour was it town.' or something like that. Get rid of these borderline retarded space-wasters and industry hang-ons, and replace them with actual professionals (who are 3-4x more efficient than the blow-ins), and each event could reduce it's running costs significantly. In fact, the whole surf industry in general would benefit from following this simple piece of advice.
+1
The ASP need to bring back some mongrel into the game, the sterile spectacle that it is the problem. The jam format is the go , I think they should have to skull a beer after each wave caught. Fuck the knob end judges off and just have peer reviewed results.
When skateboarding fucked off all the wannabe athlete shit, the soft core comps disapeared and just went from so so lame to watch to fuckin epic spectator events. Anyone been to bowlarama in skidnee? Surfing has been ripping off skateboarding left right and centre for all its progression lately, why not follow its lead in the comp world?
I know you said 'peer reviewed' Inzider but it reminded me of the Snapper comp a few years back when the online audience judged a 'superheat' at Kirra. Steph Gilmore, Dane Reynolds, Jordy Smith, Rabbit and a few others whose names escape me paddled out for the heat and the audience dialled in their scores by phone.
Fifteen minutes in and Dane Reynolds is resoundingly winning, only hitch is he hadn't even caught a wave.
Im hear n ya stu. I dont think the spectators should judge. The surfers themselves I reckon.
ah the word sustainable takes on real meaning with the new ASP tour!
Firstly,the Surf industry never really bailed out the ASP ,it was Greville and Lisa Mitchell who put up a couple of Million to settle the Dynacom deal and fund the ASP.
We cannot count on the surf Industry..as they have their own problems just surviving.
the cost of events and live webcasting has gone throught the roof in the last 5 -10 years..and to justify the investment,we ended up with ridicously long comps with multiple non-loser rounds. By prolonging the comps ,we now have a lot of the comp in marginal shitty surf.....which does not appeal to the viewers...
Another factor is the surfing is incredible,but S/bd design has stagnated so much that you now watch an event just for the surfing and not watching how new designs by shapers work in Comps and having consumer pressure on the shapers to keep coming up with a new technical design each year that seduces the global consumer into wanting the World Champ model..as in motor sports...
Next having womens and mens together as they did at Bells this year put such pressuer on the need to have 3 swells back to back to get the event finished..
there are too many surfers too many on-loser rounds to have quality waves for all heats.
Solution...top 16 mens,top 8 womens.....put em on a mini cruise ship...send the ship to the mentawis..pacific Islands ....have 75% of comps in remote area and a couple of comps on land.....so that the public can still have access to surfings best....one comp on each continent.......Bells,Lowers,Hossegor,...??
the tour is currently unsustainable.....so let the debate begin.....the one great thing the ASP has done is produce a credible world champ every year.....which should be its primary goal...and not be responsible for providing a living for guys who will never win a world title.....ouch!
Great idea!
Nah. Needs 16 women x 16 blokes, 8 single bunk cabins, 24/7 cameras and mikes, no support crew, trainers or step-dads.
I'd watch.
Ya fucker! There goes my coffee again:)
Yep agree totally and it is what I have been banging on about forever. Get the best, put them in the best surf as a Grand Slam. 4 events maybe 6 that is it. All the other events a next tier down for the schleppers. Agree also with slimming down the event. Do we really need the stands at Bells and the shops, like there isn't enough in Torquay already? It is only for the industry to sit in comfort anyway. And filming maybe give em all a go pro and hook it up like F1 (maybe a helmet on their head - I know it sounds silly but its entertainment folks). Spend the bucks on the tech not the on site rubbish. It has to be entertainment as much as sport for it to succeed. As far as the boards go, show the latest and greatest trends and why they can work for pro's not your average punter. Make the boards elite like the surfers. I am not real keen on seeing a hassling comp as I put up with enough of that crap at my local surf. Great waves, great surfers, great boards and.......at least passable non Seppo commentators (well maybe one if they are nice). AND NO DESK.
If you were building this 'new world tour'. What locations would be included?
Kirra?
Burleigh?
Lennox?
Bells?
Cloudbreak?
Teahupo'o?
Lowers?
Hossegor?
Keremas?
J Bay?
???
I'd pick locations with several wave options and have every event be somewhat mobile (much easier if you reduce the crew/infrastructure). I'd also make a few changes to the schedule.
Hawaii in Feb
WA In March/April (Anywhere from Gas Bay to Yallingup)
Goldy in April/May (Including South & North Straddie)
2x Indo events in May/June (ideally Keramas in May and G-Land/Padang/Deserts in June once the seasons really switch over)
Fiji in June (Add Frigates and Wilkes to the options)
Mexico in July
Tahiti in August (open up a few more wave options)
Trestles (& surrounds) in August/Sept
Europe in November
Finish back in Hawaii in Dec
Or there is always the option of sending the entire roll call of industry fucksticks and the associated lackeys on a holiday in Cambodia .
Where they'll work hard with a gun in their back for a bowl of rice a day, slave for soldiers till they starve and their head is skewered on a stake.
And then the rest of us can then just continue surfing without heeding to their demands for consumer free line ups.
Nice one. It's tough kid but it's life
Classic blowin. That made me chuckle.
Good call on bringing back some mongrel inz. They need some characters, commentary/post heat interviews unbelievably boring and repetitive, it's pissweak.
Less surfers on tour & shorter comps in my opinion. The skateboarding comparison is spot on, skating's huge but will never be a mainstream sport. Look at the State of Origin or chuck on the World Cup - competitive surfing's to reach that level of popularity? Pig's arse.
Skateboarding will never be what surfing has become. It fuckin hurts when you slam which keeps pussys away. The corporate world has tried to fuck skateboarding over and has nearly succeeded. if it were not for hardcore skater owned companies holding the fort , it would have been overun like surfing industry has?.
Also most hardcore skaters hate it being called a sport. Probly same with a lot of surfers I imagine.sports have rules and regulations .free surf for ever. Its your right.
Haha yeah, I lost my balls for skating years ago. I might be way off but skaters seem to have more control over their subculture (or whatever you wanna call it) than surfers do.
There's gotta be a way surfers could be viewed as a pack of dirty, nomadic wildmen again. People you wouldn't let your daughter near or prayed your son wouldn't become. Parents would be signing little Johnny up to the local footy club instead of the Hurley Performance Centre or some bullshit. Might clear out some lineups over time. Don't see it happening though.
On another note, how can those big surf companies be crying poor when there's so many fucking people surfing? Surely someone somewhere's making a shitload of money.
Really Doctor Shit , is that what you want ? To regress to the bad old days of surfers being the bane of society ?
I , for one, am glad the days of being ostracised and outcast are behind us. Finally I feel that the community has accepted us . That all those years of conformation and bending myself to the acute protocolic angles that modern Australia required of me to become part of the firmament that we as a nation aspire to were not in vain.
That now, when I wake at the dawn of each promise filled new day and emerge from my recently acquired home , which is also my recently acquired car and light my first joint for the day and proceed to vent my bowels of the previous nights half carton and pizza dinner on the lawn of the beautifully appointed suburban home that I careened drunkenly onto after closing time at some anonymous local boozer to find a respite from the storm that was roiling in my head and sleep till the first silver gull yawked time to rise and surf..... I know that now I will be greeted warmly by the high minded citizens of Australia that appreciate and respect me as the noble sportsman that I represent - ever striving towards physical perfection and spiritual enlightenment in an attempt to lift our great nation higher still.
PS ... Are you a real Doctor ? Because I've got this insidious rash spreading between my scrotum and anus - do you think you could take a look at it for me ?
Gold..
Yep.
Ah so good, I got nothin'. You paint such a beautiful picture. I never realised it before but I am an athlete. A shining example of what future generations should aspire to be.
If you need someone to check out your arse-rash I guess you'd go to Dr Shit, I'll have a look for ya mate.
We're all athletes mate. Keep the faith Doctor Shit.
I think a close look at the financial history of pro surfing would show that it has NEVER really been viable. The "dream tour" was exactly that, though not in the way they intended. The money invested by the clothing companies in the competitions was never an effective use of their promotional budgets and it may be that most of their current problems arise as a result of that poor strategy.
More to the point, surfing has never attracted more than fleeting interest outside its participants and in all probability, never will. It has a certain value in advertising but that has always focused on spectacular images or the groovy lifestyle thing.
If you go back to the very beginning, it was always a hoax. A small group of surfers and hangers on who did not represent the feelings of the wider surfing community. The sad thing is that, by riding on coca cola's advertising, the clothing companies were able to turn a small surfing population who were deeply committed and prepared to make sacrifices in income and opportunity, into a large one increasingly made up of the middle aged and the middle classes who have no commitment to it, no connection to any sort of surfing community and whose performance in the water is an embarrassment to the sport.
Hey Guys,
At the end of the day surfing is a individual and elitist sport.
How many surfers come from poor, underprivileged or marginalised communities. There is a good reason for that, they do not have easy access to the ocean. Many people on this site gripe about the tour needs to be at the best waves. Absolutely but I am sure every athlete would appreciate ideal conditions. Surfing went forward when it was at local breaks around the world and accessible to the masses. At best surfing is a pass time not a international sport. Anyone who thinks it is more is self delusional.
And one last thing when you can longer surf due to illness surfing politics is so nowhere
hey no longer can surf, sorry you cannot partake in the ocean any more,
I have to disagree with your stereotyping of surfing being an elitist sport. Competition is elitist.
Some people are lucky enough to live by the coast and it only takes a walk or a pushy ride to get there. Once a car is injected to the equation it becomes another story and Straya is one big fucker of a joint to get around, so for a native australian kid in alice springs, to start surfing he/she obviously wont be getting to the beach with his pushy and following that rabbit proof fence to the ocean to check the swell would be a task and a half.
Where i now reside in NZ we have many poor kids that surf, kids that come from less than favourable homelife. I would wager that most of NZ's top tier shredders over the years have not come from affluence. We have produced many a potential world champion, and bar MAZ Quin none have had the industry to back them, without a wealthy family (ie paige hareb on the womens tour) you are doomed in NZ to never reach your dream. Lets face it , ozzies hate being beaten by kiwis in anything from tiddlywinks to rugby. The surf $ generated here in NZ go straight back to back oz to support all your own. Kiwi rippers get shafted decade after decade, thats just how it is and thats why so many families with surf kids with a dream move to the goldy( if they have the money) . From what Ive seen though in NZ through the years is the ones with the most raw talent come from the poorest backgrounds.
Anywho, I digress , back to the real topic.
Too many to comments to read them all but my two bob's worth is develop the wave pool technology and hold the contests there. I'm sure it makes the logistics easier and the marketability to the mainstream will be easier, its an even playing field. Try explaining the intricacies of the ocean to a non surfer! Then they can leave the ocean waves to the rest of us!!!
Here's a suggestion which will raise a few brows, but which I believe could greatly improve the product with minimal changes to the current system. Bring back the 3-wave system. I know some people will cry foul but it will hugely increase the number of waves ridden per heat = less dead time on he webcast. Judging inconsistencies will be averaged out over more waves for fairer results. It will sort out the priority issue too, because people won't abuse priority when they are concerned with getting their own wave count up - but it will still be there to stop hassling and keep things fair. Sure, some heats might have fewer waves or a long lull, but in these instances it will encourage the surfers to scrap it out and battle for the smaller waves too, rather than just sitting there doing doing nothing. It also means a guy has to surf really well for his whole heat in order to win, not just be lucky enough to stroke into the one bomb set and score a 10.
What do you thing people? I'm battening down the hatches and preparing to weather the storm that is about to be unleashed on me in response.
I tend to agree, 3 scoring waves would:
... help to "average" out the scoring inconsistencies
... help to reduce 'dead time' in heats
... help to reduce the 2 bomb set wave distortion
But, 3 scoring waves, in sub par surf is still a poor product for entertainment and showcasing athleticism.
My 2 bobs worth, 99% of surfers do not enter contests ! I`ve entered 2or3 in 50yrs of surfing, highest place was third, so what. I couldn`t give a cold wet wetsuit if the ASP survives or not. Get a proper job surf bums, join the working world,find out what it`s like too get your hands dirty earning your daily bread.
Using the same theory ---> swimming championships? Is there a more boring 'sport' to watch? How many 'swimmers' compete? And yet, it seems every major swimming competition is broadcast on the TV.
Many, many 'boring' sports are broadcast on TV. However they all have one common denominator surfing doesn't: a predictable broadcast schedule. Without that, live surfing will never gain mainstream broadcast acceptance. Doing so would put surfing competitions back where they were twenty years ago - at the whim of the ocean and with a big risk that the waves will be terrible.
The only possible option here is a wave pool world tour. Which is a very real possibility at some stage in the future, given all of the evidence to date.
You are probably correct Ben. But still, I don't think that would add much revenue.
Possibly the best analogy to the wave pool is half pipe snowboarding. It is spectacular, has skilled and courageous participants, has much bigger walls than a wave pool will likely have, but still, it is at best a third tier sport. And frankly, it is a little boring except as once every 4 year novelty viewing, or to walk down and have a look if you happen to be staying nearby.
I'm not sure that the wave pool tour would be viable Ben. It all comes down to the potential audience and, even with a scheduled broadcast time, I'm not sure it is there at the level needed to fund a tour. On top of that the wave pools have to be economically viable year round and the evidence for that is not convincing particularly given rising energy costs and the need to produce reasonably powerful waves for an entertaining competition. I have made the point a few times now that the energy costs are the square of the wave speed so a small improvement in wave quality comes with a disproportional increase in running costs. And in the end a wave pool event is not a surfing competition it is a wave riding competition.
Well, until we have a wave pool up and running - of which it looks like the next couple of years will finally see a couple of options around the world - we really won't know what's viable and what's not (from both an economic and entertainment point of view).
Otherwise, I can't think of any alternatives to what's presently being done (which is a slightly glossier version of what's been in play for a long time anyway).
There are many and have been many wave pools up and running.
Not one is yet to produce the kind of waves surfers would pay money or travel for...let alone as a standard for an X games type competition venue.
Hence they tend to go out of business.
Will surfing in a wavepool ever be cool? I see the UK surf scene as pretty fashion based, heavily influenced by the current retro hipster fads. Are people like that really going to want to hang out at a waveool?
Based on current evidence from Wavegarden I don't expect too much more than the status quo.
Re Red Bull Cape Fear:
"And we're already nine weeks into a fourteen week waiting period, yet the event hasn't been run.
Don't get me wrong - the RBCF event is a great idea and will work well for its intended purpose (when it is eventually given the green light) but I don't think it does much to fit into the general format of mainstream sports broadcast."
Absolutely. Red Bull have done a herculean job of hyping up the event but you can do all the hyping you want, in the Final analysis if you can't produce the product in the time frame designated, you've got nothing but a waste of money on your hands.
Same logic applies to BWWT. End of June already , has there been a big wave ridden in anger yet in a coloured vest?
Conversely , you could say that Red Bull have had 9 weeks of hype at very little actual outlay and isn't hype the end game ?
Really? Have they had 9 weeks of hype? I dunno if any of the exposure to date would be considered worthwhile. And their is a considerable financial outlay to get this far, so I imagine they're hoping that the next four weeks delivers the goods.
What financial outlay ? A couple of short videos and the surfing world waits ... We're talking about it now .
Every time the words Red and Bull are uttered or written or read they are cashing marketing cheques. Red bull red bull red bull.......
A HUGE amount of work goes into the planning of these events. For this one alone, contracts would have been drawn (and negotiated) for the surfers. Permits would have been sought (and negotiated) from the relevant authorities. Competition and broadcast infrastructure would have been designed and proposed, negotiated, redesigned, renegotiated, and then booked (all on standby for the event day, thereby attracting additional fees). Event staff proposed, negotiated, and booked in. Media deals would have been arranged and schedules locked in. Creative and branding designed, proposed, redesigned, approved, executed. Advertising coordinated. All of that and a million other things.
There's a lot more work that goes into these events other than the eight hours of competition you see on the day.
Your right Ben , I didn't take into account the myriad details that go into the planning of an event such as this, but I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that the surfing industry is so incestuous and cronyistic that the actual dollar figures are reduced somewhat and the returns aren't bad at all on what is quite a discussed and relevant topic in the surf media at the moment.
Yeah I was going to say 9 weeks of hype....? I haven't really heard of anything.
One question! do the participants get paid for a waiting period ie 9 weeks, or do they go about their normal jobs?, if they have one...?
Then get on a plane and compete...? That would be a lot of monies outlayed.
Don't forget to pack your whites......
Two wavegardens have been given green light in England (including one for Brighton - summer party central). They supposedly will be ready for Northern Hemi Summer 2015. Seems like a pretty good market out there for them - most people would give it a crack - but its not really world tour worthy...Surely it can't be that hard to make a decent 6 foot wave.
I have maintained Red Bull is the logical fit for the world tour, its got deep pockets. Together with Gopro and Samsung surely they could stump up the 50 million to run the tour....Gopro is now worth $2.2 biliion alone.
Interesting freeride regarding the BWWT - why it Cape Town didn't get a green light on May 23. Look like amazing conditions consistent 20 foot. I think there is way more upside for the BWWT, look at the viewing for the Volcom Expression when Fiji was 20 foot - there's an indication to the future.
So if breakeven is $50million how are they going to generate the cash? TV deal is the only real way and the probability there is 0.00001%, so really leaves only online. There online performance has been average, but there presentation is good. I was looking for an online broadcast platform to compare and no one is doing it better than sbs with the soccer.
theworldgame.sbs.com.au
Its got every game, highlights package, interviews etc. If you want to watch England lose again click it on.I know they have the market but the platform is first class. Red Bull doing similar thing, with there .tv so they are on the right track.
But the problems for the aspworldtour.com is they have nothing to sell because basically no one is watching. How do you generate advertising revenue and ROI for the likes of Samsung. Its at ough sell for the septic tanks, and Stu is hitting them with a couple of combinations. Not the sort of information you want floating around when you are trying to get new contracts.
" If you want to watch England lose again click it on."
Hahaha, Mickfree your true colours are coming out, love it ;)
For all my anti- sellout posturing, if you put a live feed of two competent level surfers playing in sub par beach breaks I'd watch it in preference to the rest of the drivel served on a daily basis on TV. If it's surf related I'll watch full stop, I won't go into details for fear of incriminating myself but what I'm saying is this.....
If your going to do Pro Surfing it's all about peak moments .
1 Wave totals. Multiple surfers maximising the break. Get in , get out , fuck off.
3 wave totals ? Fuck that, too many waves surfed for safety as is .
Blow my mind then go the fuck home .
Blowin, if they were going to rebuild the comp structure from the ground up I would suggest something similar as well. I suggested bringing back 3-waves as a way to maximise action with minimal changes required. If it's re-designing we are talking about, what about this for an idea:
8 Surfers in the water at any time on constant rotation. When they get a wave and want it to be scored, they paddle in and the next guy paddles out. Maybe put a 60 minute time limit per person as well. Do a couple of rotations and at the end of the day tally up each persons best 3 scores.
Thoughts?
Johnson ,I agree with you up to the point where I think only one wave should ever count..... It's about who surfs the best. One wave, smash the fuck out of it or try to better it by smashing the fuck out of the next wave they catch. More than one wave encourages safe surfing. If you want to see safe surfing , come and watch the next time I paddle out.
For professionals ? Absolute balls out display of skills every heat. As someone once said ; this ain't tennis.
Not to mention that for a lot of heats there isn't even 2 good waves let alone 6 .
All or nothing go big or go home .
I feel so emasculated after typing that last sentence .
Go big or go home......ohhhh ohhhh ohhhh ugh.
One wave doesn't always reward the best surfing - it rewards luck. One person could surf almost flawlessly all heat, get half a dozen 9.5's, and still lose to someone who got lucky and pulled into the wave of the day but who couldn't even do a reo on any other wave.
Plus the waiting for a wave will become ridiculous. Guys will sit and wait all heat without catching a wave because they know anything other than a mid-8 is gonna be useless most heats. I want to watch guys actually surf, not sit there doing nothing.
If there are only 2 good waves in the heat, I'd rather watch them scrap for the little waves and try to force scores out of them with big moves, than watch constant replays of the one wave which has been surfed so far for the next 20 minutes while the commentators dribble on about something obscure.
Sounds like the slalom surfing idea that Terry Fitzgerald used at a HB Pro Junior in the late 90s. Can't remember the complete rules but it went something like: each surfer gets 4 minutes to catch any wave, then the next surfer has their turn, and the surfer following after that etc. There's never more than 4 minutes break in the action and generally far less than that. Each wave gets tallied so there's a running total that constantly changes and surfers (and viewers) know what the next surfer needs to grab the lead.
Obviously plenty of room for refinement but the system provides non stop action, constant lead changes, and is comprehensible to all.
Silk purse? Sow's ear? I don' t think it matters much how you package it, the audience is tiny and unlikely to get significantly bigger anytime soon
Ben is right that there is no continuity with surfing events for TV....you need to have an every 2 week event presented on TV like formula 1...
So there need to be a rethink of live broadcasting.....Imagine 6 events back to back on a cruise ship in the Mentawis......not broadcast live but presented every sunday for 6 weeks ,a 2 hr program that no-one knew the result because it was held over 2 days during the previous week......
the current tour is so disjointed over 10 mths....has to be cut to 6-8 mths max.....viewers cannot plan to sit down and watch an event because a lot of the time is during the week or at odd times......
the idea of onland Grand Prix events still has merit...one on each continent......live ,but the ASP show still on the Sunday for the continuity.......we are not looking for the worlds most perfect waves ....we want to see supa contestants battling each other for a world title...which means the 12-16 surfers all have to be genuine contenders!!
Wave pools,I have seen seen some pretty amazing possibilities with a couple of the wave pool Co's trying to be ably to get the 1st bigger wave 4-6' up and running.....there is a lot of potential in some of the models and plans I have seen.
It is in the interest of the ISA to get these pools up and running as then Surfing could become and Olympic sport.......and the money /business plans would create a possible 6'plus wave...then all countries in the Olympics would have to builds a wave pool.....the wave pool in Dubai is one of the biggest money makers in surfing...
So a world tour with perfect waves in the Islands of the indian and pacific oceans....a couple of grand prixs ...and a couple of poolie events.....
sponsors could be Cruise Co's,Pool Co's, etc.....
Aaa ah the Olympics! The perfect solution for those pastimes unable to fund their own infrastructure. You simply find some government stupid and desperate enough to go for the old bread and circuses trick and persuade them that erecting stadiums and facilities for obscure and elitist sports is better use of their tax payers money than such extravagances as schools, hospitals and decent public transport. Yes I can see how surfing is a natural fit there!
hey BB,just so ya know I am not at all a fan of the ISA and their push to get surfing as an Olympic sport..I agree a 100% with you ..........huge waste of money....
I just put the ideas forward as a possible talking point.....with the business plan behind it to support it...being pools...it bothers me we might have surfers /poolies in the future that have no idea how to catch a wave in the ocean as they cue up in the pools...ahhhhhh...and would have no idea about how to deal with a crowd in the real surf....double ahhhhhhhhhhhhh
"each surfer gets 4 minutes to catch any wave, "
That sounds like the worst possible system imaginable. What if a good wave doesn't come through in that four minutes?
Far better to have something like Johnson suggested, kind of an Eddie style set-up where multiple surfers spend an hour or more out in the line-up.
Or the Skins set-up. That seemed to reward radical surfing.
Forgot about that. Epic location(s), fantastic surf, top 16 WCT plus a couple of local wildcards in a 'skins format' .... that would be very different "product".
Streamed live and then packaged for the mainstream TV audience.
Plenty of options to improve the "product" if the ASP / Zosea wanted ...
Well it's not their only chance to catch a wave. The surfers revolve all day so catch plenty of waves.
AFAIC (as far as I'm concerned) - the ASP, surfing comps in genera, are a wash for me. I'm totally bored watching the same surfers perform the same maneuvers, to the degree they all look the same, with the occasional flight of a particular surfer, over-emphazied on all the internet locations that cover said 'flight/s' (talking air's here) ad nauseum.
'Blow my mind then GO THE FUCK HOME .'
'Go big or GO HOME'
http://athlonsports.com/15-most-athletic-freaks-nfl-combine-history
http://theathleticbuild.com/25-most-jacked-football-players-in-the-nfl/
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/05/two_state_schools_in_nflcoms_...
And then, of course, we have, as they have rebranded themselves, the 'athletes'...
http://xgames.espn.go.com/surfing/article/9690519/taj-burrow-wins-2013-h...
http://stwww.surfingmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/whats-he-on-...
http://ih0.redbubble.net/image.9860049.6256/flat,550x550,075,f.jpg
40 yard dash... don't bother
Standing jump... don't bother
225 bench... zero
and so on, and so on...
'basically no one is watching.'
Blow'n away!!! Probably best just to... GO HOME.
But, who knows!
Uplift , why do you equate muscle mass to athleticism ? Havnt seen any muscle bound marathon runners, or triathletes of late, or are they not athletes, You will never see a massive guy surf anywhere near the level of a toned skinny dude. More muscle = more crab.
Back onto the topic. The world tour and surf comps in general(bar social ones) are just industry examinations for glory seekers. Who cares if the ASP fails and falls over. The planet will be better off for it. All it does is create a fuckin huge carbon footprint that encourages more people to surf and travel and make an even bigger footprint. Die ASP , the sooner the better.
Brutus, I know you said that Kelly will keep surfing comps until he's 50. But if he goes then there is a real possibility that the whole thing falls over. If the Zosea does fail in this last venture it would be unlikely that someone else would come in to pick up the tab. That would likely be the end of a year long world tour. I mean they would probably run Pipeline, Bells etc. as one off invite events which would seem a reasonable outcome given the tide of public opinion. This would support Phil's conclusion that the glory days are over and now we are just on the downward curve of the life cycle.
I don't think the ASP has much of an impact on participation.
Now I will contradict this by saying....
Kelly Slater is the greatest of all time, and probably still the best in great surf, but I wonder if having this middle aged guy as the point man for the pastime is part of the reason that I don't see a lot of young males in the surf.
From a casual observation, in South-East Qld, most of the under 25s I see in the surf seem to be females. Plenty of them are pretty darned good too.
Apparently the industry understands the business model... When bollocks on stilts goes out of style, 'ya build higher stilts.
Inzider, professional surfing is explosive by nature. Nothing like marathon and endurance events. Short efforts. The NFL has the best explosive athletes on the planet. The all important tests used to gauge them are universally accepted as measures of pure athleticism. Of course you won't see those elite athletes in the surf, they would have to take ridiculously, massive paycuts. Plus, they would be flung from the limelight they love and enjoy into obscurity.
Put Laird on the cruizeliner, and the interest will instantly lift.
'Surfer Magazine has labeled Laird as, “the sport’s most complete surfer, displaying almost unnerving expertise in a multitude of disciplines, and flat out surfing’s biggest, boldest, bravest, and the best big wave surfer in the world today, bar none.”
At 6’3”, 215 pounds, with an uncommon combination of balance, flexibility, and strength, Laird Hamilton is a specimen of an athlete. Laird is not just a surfer; he has transcended the sport of Surfing and has become an international fitness icon and nutrition expert.'
Or just keep respraying the same lemon. Surely it will eventually sell. Next year... or the one after... or the one after that...
uplift, laird is no doubt a water man of legend status, but a high performance ASP level comp surfer he is not. The world tour featuring all the weedy weaklings is all about modern surfing if you have not noticed, not just balls out charging. I hear what your saying about lemons. T
Yeah I like Jonson and Stu's idea, maybe with a little tweaking...?
IMO this kind of competition would make it quite exciting compared to the latter.
What about the competitors have to pick x2 one hour sessions in that day, with 4 surfers max in the water each session and what ever scoring system has been arranged...? They have to pick their own sessions the day before, first in first served with a start and cut of time..?
This will also come down to the surfers or their coaches/Swell advisors ie SN compared to surfline?coastalwatch etc, getting the best time and period of that day..
I've seen Slater do this at the Volcom pro last year when the organisers ask him questions...?
Food for thought ;)
But Uplift, surfing is wave-powered, not human-powered. The physical skills are balance, agility, reflexes and deft weighting movements. A certain amount of strength is helpful in certain tight carves, but not power lifting type strength. You are piloting a light craft to ride wave energy. If a surfer is using all their muscle power, they are probably doing it wrong.
FFS, can you all stop giving the wanker oxygen for his all-too predictable rants, and get this thread of how to save pro surfing back on track.
Now, 16 blokes, 16 chicks, luxury cruise ship, 8 cabins, single bunks, 24/7 mikes and cameras, no clothes.
Skins format in the water, skinny skin skins on the boat.
That's what I'm talkin about.
Stray gator, a re branding to The Association of Surfing Porn is what you are promoting with your idea, brilliant This will get viewer numbers through the roof. problem solved.
Yes indeed. And not a barbell in sight.
I'm with you S-G2
Awesome, but I'm a bit worried about watching it as I think the chicks aren't that great looking as well as the guys....?
Not compared to what we watch.......?
..... Edit
I reckon the ASP as a brand/business/sport can work, but it needs to define what it's about for the long term before it can market itself to the world.. it's all a little confused at the moment.. the talisman can't last forever...
You did read the article, didn't you?
'The ASP as a business can turn a profit'. Discuss.
my point being it can work if they can appeal to a mass market. it's sustaining the latter part that'll prove problematic - but it's not insurmountable. only my humble (ignorant) opinion..
Sounds interesting wally, but the fans aren't buying it.
As you say, you are dealing with forces, the waves forces. The speed and amount of water, thickness and size mean more or less force. Just as in many sports. The speed, and size, and muscular strength of a wrestler, boxer, martial artist, say judo, or jiu jitsu, but all of them, all effect the forces the athlete deals with. But in this case, its even much, much harder to deal with, as the other athlete providing the combined forces can think, and react, and plan, and is actively trying to undermine the other athlete.
Hence, weight divisions, to protect the smaller athlete against the larger forces, and to make it watchable, fair.
Or else we would have this scenario. Buddy's on a roll, or plugger, or say Tyson... the coach wisely thinks, quick, find the smallest, lightest, weakest guy possible and get him out their to control Buddy (or Tyson, or Plugger)!!!!...!!! Where's little Defty Dweebsnerder, get him out there... deft that fucker!!!
'But coach... please... no!!!'
And the result would be minimal, 20 years at least, for pre - meditated manslaughter, but most probably life.
Obviously a more athletic, faster stronger, more powerful surfer, with equal skill, or more skill due to fitness, is going to excell. And even more so as the waves get bigger, stronger, faster, heavier, more powerfull. And obviously those athletes will need much, much different equipment to make full use of their ability.
Professional surfing blew both its feet off years ago when it turned itself into a slop banging, bunny hopping fiasco, and has never recovered.
But, maybe it is just the spray job.
Off-topic posts and personal attacks have been, and will continue to be deleted.
Yet irrelevant stupidity gets free rein.
It brings the numbers having uplift, maybe uplift should be hired by the ASP, not the re branded ASP we speak of.
'Yet irrelevant stupidity gets free rein.'
Perhaps being a bit too harsh on yourself, but, then perhaps its for the best in the big picture... or miniscule one.
Uplift....Professional surfing blew both its feet off years ago when it turned itself into a slop banging, bunny hopping fiasco, and has never recovered.
Are you referring to Pipe/Chopes/Cloudbreak/Bells/Snapper/ etc.........the tour schedule is great...we have a bit of everything...the problem is the comp is way too long and you need 2-3 swells per comp to finish.....
maybe you could use your braincell to comment on making the current system better......and don't worry about the surfing athletes physical prowess so much..??
Enough with the personal comments, Maurice. Mick's new bestie will censor you, and rightly so. One brain cell - that's nasty, that is.
ohh did I leave the s as in plural out???
.
Brutuseless, no... as I said... in the post that you are... referring to, I am referring to when professional surfing blew both its feet off years ago when it turned itself into a slop banging, bunny hopping fiasco, and has never recovered. I can't see in my post where I referred to the other blathering that you are referring to, wondering if I am referring to your particular blather.
Just so that you can be sure what I am referring to, and what you are referring to, I am referring to when 'Professional surfing blew both its feet off years ago when it turned itself into a slop banging, bunny hopping fiasco, and has never recovered.'
That image was an actual reality that ruled surfing for long enough for it to be well and truly cemented into the phsyche of the public in general, who as the numbers verify, still view professional surfing as a boring pass time for deadbeats, squibs, bunny hoppers and slopbashers. That time even pissed most surfers off, and now, even on a forum for surfers, there is agreement:
' The world tour featuring all the weedy weaklings is all about modern surfing if you have not noticed, not just balls out charging. '
As you can see here many other surfers actually have no interest in Pro Surfing at all.
It, the public attitude is summarised at about the 5 min 50 sec mark of this vid.
Because whilst surfers love to see themselves as these special 'athletes' the reality is far from it.
Awesome surfers, but the audience they have pleaded for for years and years and years, doesn't see it like that. So we have this style of thing.
'At 6’3”, 215 pounds, with an uncommon combination of balance, flexibility, and strength, Laird Hamilton is a specimen of an athlete. Laird is not just a surfer; he has transcended the sport of Surfing'
'not just a surfer; he has transcended the sport of Surfing'
'NOT JUST A SURFER'
Which is ensuring that Laird gets more all round recognition and coverage than any other, 'just' surfer.
That is unfixable, that 'just a surfer' tag and image, especially when the surfers are compared to genuine, elite athletes, who love to measure and showcase their athleticism in universally accepted ways. The public the surfers seek to pay them, know exactly what it takes to claim being an elite athlete, it has long been cherished and promoted by them, even if it is a mystery to many surfers. It doesn't have to be that way for pro surfers, but thats always been the chosen direction, and judging by the same old, same old banter and carrying on, nothing is any different, or looks like being so.
By the way, there was much excitement recently about a 12 year old kid surfing pumping chopes. No 12 year old kid would stand the slightest chance against the elite athletes of, for instance the NFL, NBA, NHL, recognised and viewer saturated showcases for elite athletes.
Also when Fiji offered the chance for professional surfers to showcase their 'athleticism'... all missing in action. It was left for the real surfers to catch the attention of the public. Another layer of cement on the image that I am referring to.
But, again, hey, who knows:
oh uplifter , you sure can take umbrage at such an innocent comment......
a couple of years ago ...hmm ..means...??
The dream tour has been around for quite awhile...much longer than a couple of years...oh the problems with interpretation.....
an no there are not a lot of fans of pro surfing on this forum which means absolutely nothing...as does your comments on Fiji..the wind was blowing into the tube in the morning,none of the surfers had big enough equipment... and real surfers.....hmm like reef,parko,etc...
enough already...what are your ideas for improving the tour??
Dream tour? 2 foot Rincon? Brazil? Pipe final, no waves for 20 mins? What athletes?
Do something different. For once, surfers, that in pure athleticism, are actually athletic. But that would truly mean a whole new range of equipment, catering to much faster, stronger, more powerful, more coordinated, fitter athletes. Who could shape them? Is there even a 'branded' wetsuit size in those proportions?
Do things that 12 year old kids can't.
'none of the surfers had big enough equipment'
Not true. Dreaming. The surfers the public saw showcased and highlighted, that they viewed as real surfers made sure that they did. The whole world saw that they did, and that the 'Elite, Athletes' didnt.
Or, chuck em on a boat. Go down with the ship if you like.
OK, here's an idea.
With the Mens tour, there are 36 surfers, with 51 heats to get the winner.
I would suggest reducing that to 32 surfers.
Then, back to the future, the first round would be 8 heats with 4 surfers per heat.
The heats would be 45 minutes each. The first 2 in each heat would advance.
Heat scores would be the single best wave for each surfer.
Single best wave scoring would reduce wave supply issues, make for some exciting surfing, and would mean heats would really go down to the last minute.
After that 6 hours of surfing, there would be 16 surfers left.
You could then go back to the current man on man, 2 wave system.
With a round of 16 (8 heats), quarters, semis and final.
That would reduce total heats from 51 (25.5 hours) to 23 (13.5 hours).
You would have the option of running the round of 16 as 45 minute/4 man heats, if you wanted to knock another hour off the running time.
This would mostly make it a 2 day event. If it looked like there would be waves on the weekend, you could wait for the weekend.
The difference between 4 surfer heats with best single wave, and the usual 2 man 2 wave system would add interest, I think.
This also gets rid of the non-elimination rounds i.e the rounds that don't really count.
OK Uplift......how many pro surfers took their 8 0 '+ bds to Fiji....none!!
The surf was best when the wind dropped at nite ..uou would have seen the barrel parko got before Reefs wave..how big??
You seem to be saying that you want a tour of oversized bulked up men ,with special equipment for them...please explain......maybe you know a surf spot that breaks @ 10'plus all the year round??
As with the dreamtour....you might be aware that sometimes the Ocean does not co-operate with Comps and sometimes we have comps or part there of in marginal surf,but a result is needed...so.......
the 12 year old was towed into chopes...like the 16 year old girl from Malibu...they couldn't have paddled it !!
Wally well thought out......maybe add the system they have at Pipe where there are 2 heats in the water at once,man on man....and there is a priority heat in the water and the second heat can take any wave the priority heat doesn't want!
Hi Brutus,im pretty sure the pros knew a big swell was coming,so there was no excuses really and Parko ,Fanning and a few other pros charged it on stepup boards like 6-8 or so but considering they were under gunned really manned up.Imo it was a missed opportunity for professional surfing even if it was only for the arvo heats.
Yeah Wally your right ,the events are too long especially now the womens event has been tacked on,on some contests.Didnt they change the format a few years ago to finish an event in 4 days ie one swell window......?
mmmm
Hi Simba.....the 1st heat with bede..was too bumpy...and then the swell rose...
I think at least 1/2 of the tour would have struggled to surf those waves...so it would have been embarrassing to see how many waves would have gone unridden...
so what we got as surf lovers was an incredible show of some of the best big wave surfers in the world riding from 7 4 (reefs tube of the year)......to 10+ guns....so in a way, we the public were entertained ...with some of the biggest tubes ever..
a bit like that day at chopes...but of course you have to tow in.....I think we were all stoked on that day in Fiji as they left the cameras on.....and the rest is history..
maybe next time something happens likethat they could have the BWWT??
ohyeah you lost me at hello. I run my own business and I can say if was CEO of Zosea, I would want to know why my $30 million dollar annual investment in my business is only attracting 0.007% of the surfing population to tune in to watch my product. What are you trying to say?
Any ideas on how ASP could improve judging on tour? Always going to be subjective I guess. Perhaps they could take a note from ice skating - combination of technical score and style score ;-)
Penalties for any bs claiming too
a stronger head judge!!!!
Brutus, can I ask you to elaborate on what judging changes you would like?
My own view is that I think they do a good job.
In the mens tour, there are...
11 events by 51 heats = 561 heats per year
Picking a figure with scant analysis, there are probably about 10 waves ridden per heat. That means about,
5610 waves are scored each year.
Do people disagree with some of those scores? Sure.
Still, I think they do a good job.
'OK Uplift......how many pro surfers took their 8 0 '+ bds to Fiji....none!!'
Exactly. That alone as supposed 'professionals', especially as plenty of non 'professionals' could figure out and make certain that they had the right equipment is a joke. Like a 'pro' boxer forgetting his gloves, or bringing the wrong ones.
The audience and sponsors the ASP are trying to woo, is used to seeing fit, muscular athletes, and demands that for the money they provide. Agreed it is is a non event in pro surfing, and along side the typical 'Pro Elite Surfer', they must look gigantic to you. But as is easy to demonstrate, those athletes are capable of demonstrating, and must demonstrate ridiculously higher levels of athleticism and fitness than 'Pro Elite Surfers', to even be considered for haveing a shot at competing. So, as a result, their pulling power and thus pay packets glaringly reflect the situation.
the inconstency from the judges is a point that all the surfers on tour are struggling with..Parkos tube Vs Medina's turns....snapper is known for tubes behind the rock...but the judging changed from the semis to the final.....turns were scored higher than barrels in the final...Kelly arrives 4 heats before his to see how the judges are judging as never sure if ariels are being scored or big man turns.....?
the Judges are pretty confused also as there are bigger turns and crazy airs....and each break allows different facets of the surfing repertoire..
uplift....there is a big difference in a bag of boxing gloves to bringing 10-12 bds per comp..and then more guns on top of that....ah how many boxing gloves are 6 0 or bigger....??
the audience that watches extreme sports .....snowboarding ,skating,surfing.....just wants to see rad talent not pumped up beefcakes.....
How many iron pumping beefcakes were out at cloud break that day?
zErO aMASingLY
Are Olympic swimmers ' elite athletes ' uplift?
bruteuseless, if the judges are confused just trying to judge, well, imagine how confused the whole fiasco would be trying to figure out how to come up with the paycheck needed to lure just one elite NFl player, or eqivalent elite athlete into the debacle. Bankruptcy.
On the same note, not being able to come up with the feeble cost of getting some boards to the events, or being unable to figure out how to have the necessary equipment available at events, which is a pittance alongside what actual elite athletes expect, and are used to dealing with, says it all. Don't call us, we'll call you... but hey, have a nice cruise! Still it grows on you, almost custom written! You can feel and sense the excitement, the electricity... a pack of elite squibs (minus boards... budget restrictions) on a cruise ship... sell that fucker brew!
The worlds best athletes aren't in the olympics, there's no where near enough money.
But, keep trying, keep digging the ever deepening trench, the super rut... because surely this year, if not the next... or perhaps, possibly the next... maybe even the next... or the one after that... the world, the cosmos, the universe, all will see, all will finally understand that semi pro surfer 'elite athletes' are the greatest elite athletes that have ever, ever... somebody fuckin' pay us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We can get even smaller and weaker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If only occy didn't go on that fucking show!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The world needs more convincing team. Not working, not good enough.
uplifting....what are you talking about trying to lure an NFL athlete into the ASP...huh??
do you understand the difference say between an elite NBA player VS an NFL player VS a surfer?? Different talents,different body shapes,different stamina needs....
squibs on a cruise ship without bds......one might think that you are calling the surfing athletes cowards...the same guys who paddle Chopes,Pipe,10' cloudbreak,box.....ah get real.......
I don't think you can be pleased ...until we get a couple of Linebackers/front rowers on the Uplift Beefcake World Tour.....so we can admire their muscles as they go over the falls...........hehehe
So guys like thorpy and phelps are not elite athletes uplift?
The guys that are the fastest human beings of their era in water are not elite athletes?
Like to see one of those NFL guys you masturbate over try swimming 50 metres or paddle a board!
Your weight training hasn't helped your surfing one bit.
You are totally blinded by your arrogant know it all attitude. Reckon Shane Dorian and those type of guys havnt explored which training model works best for them. These blokes train flat out specifically for paddling mountains.
But you will get on here and say that you know better and how they would be better off if they looked like you because you shoulder hopped high tide blacks up to five foot as a past time!
These blokes train for and chase blobs full time but hey what would they know compared to you right!
Poor fools.
No... and no. Again, the worlds best athletes are good enough to compete against the worlds best , in elite Professional sports for the highest paycheques.
So, even though occy, in his prime, a world champion surfer, nicknamed the raging bull, because of his supposed power, could barely lift a tiny chick, that all the other non athletes coped with, because of his admitted back and core weakness. Weakness that he himself stated was normal in surfing, stumbled about uncoordinated and unbalanced, quote... 'the worst performance ever'... on a level playing field, was lambasted, and flogged by an unfit pastry chef in full view of the public.. suddenly just add water and presto, transforms into an elite athlete performing things that truly fit athletes could never do?
Great deductions team... carefull, don't get trampled in the rush for sponsors and season tickets!!! Again.
"occy, in his prime"
Was that Dancing with the Stars, when Occy was 45 and had been retired for 6 years?
You have a very amusing arguing style.
Meanwhile Neymar is starring for Brazil in the soccer World Cup. A bloke who would struggle to lift a sick person off the toilet, but is still starring in the world's biggest sporting competition. No one seems to object that he probably couldn't run up a set of stairs carrying two bags of cement. No, most of the world seem to appreciate finesse.
Surfing is just one of those things that it is much more fun to do, than to watch.
I played a lot of various types of football, very challenging and enjoyable at times, but unlike surfing, watching footy is often pretty close to as much fun as playing the game.
All Blacks surfing team.?
ha ha don't go there, Uplift will crack a woody.
All black legend j. kronfeld surfs, lucky bugger has a house at the point in rags.
Please answer upitty.
Are Olympic champion swimmers elite athletes?
Or do you have to be a 100 plus kilo beefcake with photo on the back of your dunny door to be elite?
Still way below NFL levels. Remember, some of the strongest most athletic Australian athletes have only managed utility roles as punters at that level. Years ago a Sydney rugby side went and trained with the NFL, and the coach was honest enough to say that they were humbled by the athleticism, and that just the weight of donning the 'light weight' protection exhausted the rugby players. But, if you could somehow entice them at a young age, surfing would reach never before seen, unimaginable to the failing old guard levels, simply because of the new level of athleticism, combined with the amasing skill. Equipment would obviously have to be matched to that, so unfortunately, who would have the experience and understanding to make it? The arguments are really old. The NBA once claimed that African American athletes would be too big and clumsy, and not coordinated and skilfull enough to compete against white players in professional basketball. Of course nothing could be further from the truth. The game was taken to a level never imagined.
Its pointless discussing with bruteuseless, as its easy to quote his earlier statements about training and gyms actually ruining surfing, being well, brute...useless, before he realised he was looking kind of foolish, and abandoned ship, suddenly transforming into a sporting, super experienced athletic training expert.
Many NFL, NBA and Major League Baseball players actually had/have the choice between any one of the three, due to their athleticism. Some of the worlds best choose baseball, due to money, longevity, and lifestyle. Having played against and trained with athletes at that level, All American in the three codes, I have seen first hand what they are capable of, and what motivates them. Surfing? No where near enough pay, or associated rewards. Not remotely on the radar.
You don't even know your own sport .... Knuckle head..
I'll jog your memory. Google " chargers.com - Darren Bennett hall of fame . "
I wouldn't call him an elite athlete in AFL . And then you have The " elite " Aussie / Islander kid Jesse Williams .... Yeah super athlete ....
I'm sure at his prime Jonah Lomu would have fucked guys up in the NFL (280+ pounds running at you in sub 11 sec. Speeds ) ... I know they were keen as fuck until he got sick .
Jonathon Brown or Duck could easily be receivers , wouldn't have to even turn around to take the ball at full flight. Probably top of the list would be Matthew Richardson ... Maybe Greg Ingless , but most likely that money slut - Israel Folou . Yeah he would fit in well ... Just there for the bucks ... That's what American sports all about ..... SHOW ME THE MONEY .... Bourne !!!! Just " roided up soldier / mercinaries .
That's where American sport , isn't one .... It's just a business , and like that other" special " past time from the " good 'ol USA " , ( NASCAR) it gets boring, so much so , the rest of the world doesn't bother or rate a mention in any of their" World Series " events ... Why you would try and model a truly international art like sport on some fucked up money spinner that is solely their to serve only one countries massive ego ,
Has got me fucked why !?!
But no that would never happen , because they wouldn't know the intracies of the sport , they wouldn't be " one " dimensional enough to fit in ....
Just like these " super " athletes you talk of ... They , like yourself just aren't made to float .
Anyway I digress ... Back to the name calling ... & yank wanking .
A 'sydney' rugby side, is that league or union uplift, two very different codes.
A COMPARISON of similar positions proves the size differences are minimal for the most part between an All Black and an NFL player.
Gear (1.88cm, 100kg), Nonu (1.82m, 104kg) and Williams (1.91m, 108kg), for example, are similar in speed to an NFL running back.
Take Adrian Peterson of the Minnesota Vikings, at 1.78m and 96kg. Dallas's Felix Jones is 1.78m, 99kg, Rashard Mendenhall of the Pittsburgh Steelers, 1.78m, 102kg.
The wide receivers are smaller still. Danny Amendola of St Louis is 1.80m, 84kg, similar in size to Jane (1.83m, 91kg), while Santonio Holmes of the New York Jets is 1.80m and 87kg.
Tightends are bigger – John Carlson of Seattle, 1.96m, 113kg, similar to Anthony Boric (2m, 113kg) or Jerome Kaino (1.96m, 109kg) – while Jermaine Gresham of the Cincinnati Bengals is 1.96m and 118kg.
Sprint times have closed too.
The NFL record for the 40m dash stands at 4.24sec, a mark shared by Atlanta Falcons wide receiver Rondel Melendez in 1999 and running back Chris Johnson of the Tennessee Titans in 2008.
Rugby is not great at providing such stats, but Sosene Anesi is said to have posted the fastest 40m recorded in New Zealand rugby with 4.53sec, while Joe Rokocoko once clocked 4.66sec.
Legends abound about Lomu's pace, but he did clock 10.8sec over 100m when he was at school, not quite as quick as Rokocoko at 10.66sec, or Bryan Habana's 10.4sec.
Where the two sports differ most, however, says Gill, is in their training techniques, with rugby requiring a far "greater" aerobic component. What I mean by that is, for example, the furthest they (NFL) ran in a week was 1km. They do 10 100m sprints the day after a game and that's it. That's their conditioning. The philosophy, which is different to ours, is that their athletes might do 50 to 60 five-second tasks in a game, so it's all maximum anaerobic explosiveness, and that's over four hours.
What say you uplift? me thinks your data is out dated, or out of your date.
Why don't you just move to America? You would be able to spend all day gobbling yank cock!
With all the knowledge, skill and muscle you possess why are you still such a kook then?
That's the real proof in the pudding big guy! You have the big equipment and are obviously an elite specimen as you have stated. Why then can you not surf to an elite level? There are countless salty old buggers on this coast who rip and don't train at all. Why then are YOU always laughed at by everyone when you surf?
Please explain as I do not understand!
'Please explain as I do not understand!'
I have explained to you anytime I felt like it, and you always understood crystal clearly.
You know your place extremely well.
I enjoyed your utube clips agent bourne.
Can't you answer my questions big gimp?
uplifter ya getting weirder by the post....are you saying that any elite sportsman could be an elite surfer??
how about tennis players being NBA or NFL players...c'mon uplift.....fair suck of the sav...your tripping.....
so when Occy surfed in his prime...you think he could have been a lot better if he had become one of your beloved beefcakes...please explain....as I am wodering if his bottom turn would have been stronger,or his verticle attack would have been stronger...or would he have been faster .......??
maybe we could get you to develop a beefcake surfing acacdemy and put your el weirdo theorys to the test......??
Ben, I know this is your site and all, but trying to pin down your criteria for what constitutes 'personal' and 'offensive' is as randomly mystifying as trying to find Mick Bourne's sole brain cell. (Not my diagnosis, btw - that is the work of Mr Cole, a noted Victorian neurosurgeon).
Just sayin.
Brutuseless, your rampant fear, and lack of understanding of athleticism, muscles and training is nothing new. I've seen it many times before. Of course I believe a fitter, faster, stronger, more powerfull, thus more confident, resiliant and more coordinated occy would perform better, and that the muscles that allow that are nothing to be feared. And yes, I believe that if the worlds most elite athletes chose surfing to express that, they would raise it to new levels. Don't be afraid, but, its natural though, to fear what you don't understand. Even football and athletics used to fear weight training and muscles.
The fans will pay just for the chance to see Buddy light up, just to see if he has a blinder, to see that unstoppable, unbeatable combination of size and skill and athleticism do what it can do. Its unconcsious, irresistable. And because of that, Buddy can pull the money in. The money pro surfing wants. Remember, its pro surfing that is trying to sell itself, and repackage itself as a showcase of 'elite athletes'. Thats entirely possible, but, elite athleticism is measurable, and far from a reality in surfing at the moment.
You seem to, no, you do mistakenly think that a much smaller, weaker, slower, lighter occy would be an even more raging bull. Why call him the 'raging bull' at all? Why not the raging mouse, if its what you think would enhance his performance. Why do you feel he, in his prime, a world champion surfer, struggled so much in that show? He was the one that openly raised the problems that surfers have with flexibility and core strength. 'The worst performance ever.' On a level playing field with non athletes. Do you think, because he was too fit, too skilled, too coordinated, too gifted, learned too quickly? Too special? So you think if an elite surfer could demonstrate elite explosive power and athleticism in the universally accepted measures, which they remotely can't at the moment, it would hinder them. Thats what the racist white Americans said about African Americans, in all of their hallowed sports. And they, those who championed those ridiculous stereotypes were reluctantly, kicking and screaming to the end, proven comprehensively to be ignorant, ignoramuses, idiots.
Look what happened when Carrol and RCJ tried to just stay on a board, on a flat lake, at speeds much slower, and forces much less, than Elite Alpine Skiers reach and deal with whilst carving, accelerating, jumping etc. And without anything like the pressure of split second decision making, whilst flying downhiil, in full throttle competition mode, craving to go faster. And those skiers value size, power and strength. The 'elite' surfers simply fell off, helpless.
But, just keep following the old formula, juggling it around, remarketing and respraying it if you like, surely it sell eventually.
Don't know where brokeback chicken soufles post disappeared to, but, oh dear...
'I'm sure at his prime Jonah Lomu would have fucked guys up in the NFL (280+
pounds running at you in sub 11 sec. Speeds )'
Wait a minute dim wit, you have been jibbering and blithering relentlessly about that size being a hindrance to speed and athleticism? Now, you suddenly squawk and puff up and worship and champion it?
Oh dear 2...
Could'ves would'ves don't mean a thing.
Oh dear 3...
'Why you would try and model a truly international art like sport on some fucked up money spinner that is solely their to serve only one countries massive ego ,
Has got me fucked why !?!'
So have lots of things, live with it.
Because the ASP is broke, always has been. Because they want someone to:
'SHOW ME THE MONEY'
Answer the question uppity!
Uplift .
You don't read well , do you !!!.
" aaaargh , but I can lifffft heavy things ..... , just the other day I had to up and lift my sorry arse away from the surf ' coz it was bigger than me .... :((((( . "
In my previous post , firstly I pointed out that your " worlds best athletes " were only better than some other athletes because their sports like AFL were so unique only to themselves , they all make their athletes " specialists " in something ... And even " average level " elite Australians " can make their hall of fame sides ....
So not that far beyond other sports, only in marketing , and remaining self important
to themselves , that's why their " World Series " events are a joke to the rest of the world .
That being my point they are not Sports , by definition they are plain business . The notion of sport left the arena years ago ....
Again that's where you get me wrong , I couldn't give a flying fuck what happens to the ASP long term , I'm sure my kids will still find role models , inspiration from local figures , or travelling under ground charges that are in it " for the right reasons " .
So no my post wasn't glorifying these " super athletes " of yours , just showed how one dimensional they were .
I liked to watch guys like " Laird , Browny (WA) , C.Watson (Vic), Camel , Shrek , Simon A , D.Bowen , Ken B , Coighty , Shane ('naki -NZ), Tom I , .... Etc etc etc ... ( not all of them elite , just bigger framed) the type of guys that do well in solid waves ) . But the list could be twice as long with sub 70kg midgets , let's face it bulk is a limitation in some waves .
Firstly it's kinda hard to stuff a large frame into tight little tubes ... Either from lack of flexibility /contortion to the sheer dimensions ...
Logistically , as Ben has continuedly pointed out its impossible to have every event in solid perfect waves . Others have contributed good ideas , and scheduling helps , but at end of the day the ocean& the elements are the great leveller ...
So all those homo - erotic dreams you have uplift , are just that .
And most likely where they will stay ...
As for Lomu , well in that particular sport the sheer physics ( you know a science you don't recognise ) of that mass moving at that speed becomes hard to stop , but what parallels that has with surfing critically is a very long way off . In surfing terms Technique is miles more important than bulking up , when it comes to on edge maneuvers .
The rest of us just enjoy the Art of actually surfing , whatever the conditions present .
HOMO-EROTIC DREAMS and that just about sums it up
Soufle, your excitement levels shot through the roof when you raised such as the likes of Lomu. Like when Buddy, or Plugger take/took to the ground. Surfing has long, openly and desperately prayed for the same scenario. Clutching at monikers like 'Thunder Thighs', 'Kong', 'The Raging Bull', 'The Huge Tahitian', our own 'wordy', in hallowed Surfers Journal print, 'The Burly Hulk' (oh the fun). At a pipe masters event a full page spread and caption was worthy of, and actually devoted to the fact that a 'particularly large human' was even in the vicinity. Not in the event, just near it.
Image the scene, striding into the, lets use wellies All Blacks changeroom for example.
'Ow yar farkin' gaaarn, they call me faaarkin thunder thighs!!!' Lets not go into the gory details.
Or, 'Oi yoose, they call me the farkin ragin' farkin bull!!! Ditto, double ditto, perhaps even more gory.
Aye, I'm bruteuseless, and ere's me farkin boy RCJ, the world's farkin greatest athlete, and we're 'ere to farkin... stop press, world first, manslaughter. Rugby team dies from uncontrolled, extensive, intense, prolonged laughter.
You say, with uncontainable excitement at the mention of his name Soufle,
'As for Lomu , well in that particular sport the sheer physics ( you know a science you don't recognise ) of that mass moving at that speed becomes hard to stop , but what parallels that has with surfing critically is a very long way off . In surfing terms Technique is miles more important than bulking up , when it comes to on edge maneuvers .'
Wrong. Elite Alpine Skiers use incredible technique to carve much, much, much, much, much (did I say much?) faster and harder, on edge than surfers, and cite weight, size and strength as necessary for being able to do so. Again, RCJ and Carroll simply rolled off the side of their boards just trying to stand up in a straight line at no where near the speed or performance of Alpine Racers, who constantly want to, and do go even faster.
Then of course, we have the occy 'incident', world wide viewing.
Reading skills you say soufle. Funny thing reading, like hail. Despite it being the exact opposite, clearly in print, some can't read, and blither and blather on for hours, and hours and hours, and hours (did I say hours?) about hail damage being covered in warrantees, whilst single handedly raising the atmospheric temperatures to critical levels with their jibberish, and lack of reading skills.
Surfing's funny too, I'm sure it will come up at the wake. 'Poor soufle'... shit 'imself at blacks eh! If only he was bigger and more developed in the right regions?'
You have no interest in ASP, but, here you are, very, very, very interested.
Inzless, whats the elite pro athlete surfers stats. How far do surfers cover in a heat, on their legs, and paddling. Whats the maximum length of 'efforts'. Explosive?
The scenario still is:
For sale, Elite, Athletic ASP surfing.
Buy now at a never to be repeated price!
Price reduction, pay up front by midnight to recieve a further discount...
Don't leave this page, first 100 buyers get free cruise!
For sale, mega cut knife set, also can be used as chain saw blades... first one hundred buyers get free ticket to ASP surfing!!! Be quick, offer ends at midnight!
hey uplift , watch this clip of the biggest back in the English rugby team (a lomu wannabe) get chased down and tackled by the smallest all black on the field, and then please explain how such a little wimp could take down such a monster.
You are pulling dream cones about your hulk hogan wannabe elite mutton heads leading the way in surfing. Reality is ( oh hang on that word reality would have thrown you after your dream cones).
Mutton heads go over the falls way more often than anyone, they have they biggest poo stance lame styles. Good surfing is good style, easy on the eye. Not watching some muscled up chump getting towed in to some slab cos there to slow to paddle it.
Stop dodging the real questions and stop dribbling out of your hoop.
Came from nowhere Smith, and won the ball too.
Tuilagi classic case of too much weights not enough speed work.
I'm in Uppity, where do I get the tickets...?
I need my own room tho, can't be fucked sharing a room with all the other princesses on the boat :)
Hey got plenty of cahin saw blades at home but they're a little used, even when I sharpen them they tend to pull to one side...?????
Too much sharpening!
This is off topic welly , but your chainsaw is pulling to one side probly because of uneven wear on your bar or you a re sharpening the left teeth better than the right or vice versa.
Classic, yeah was just ranting crap Inzider :)
Off topic from ASP- All Blacks- NRL-Downhill skiiers- Chainsaw chains - Pro surfing porn on a cruise liner....? Big fellas -Wee Blokes.
ah uplifted..fear..now theres an interesting concept?
what I understand about your infatuation with beefcakes,is that in some sports its justifiable,but not surfing...Occy at his peak had plenty of confidence,core strength,and I am sure if you trained him with ya one cellology program....he would not have surfed as good!
as for lomu..heard of a guy called Israel Falau......playing for the wallabies..played for GWS..had to slim down to play and has stayed slimmed down so he can run,but also be flexible and be able to blind turn at full speed....hmmmmm
as for your comments about the ASp being in the shit because of the athletes...not being elite......c'mon cell you can do a lot better than that!!
Right Uppy .
Your entire arguement rests on the elite fitness levels of Plugger & Buddy .
Your kidding yourself if you think they are the dedicated types that moulded their bodies into weapons .. In fact if there was ever better poster boys for genes vs environment then it's over my head .
Plugger would rather be ten beers deep into pie country smoking while at the " dogs " ...
And buddy ten bongs deep then into a night club fur countless lines in the VIP toilets ...
Your losing ground fast , better bring up that old chestnut , downhill skiing on a controlled surface where the sheer brute force is easily accounted for in predictable 2D surface tension .
Welly can you please explain to Alberto Tomba's spa buddy , the dynamics difference of the extra dimension in the snow when riding through powder , then again explain to us why the " muscle men in Lycra " don't ride through the ultimate challenge that nature can present in alpine regions ... Freeride .
Yeah the muscles in Lycra get ya hard , don't they big fella .... Shame they don't have the nuts or skills to compete on the edge , and often over it !!!!
Again we forget the topic don't we Michael ....
Unless we don't get some Beef cakes on board , agent promoter Borne will not be on board ... Speaking of all aboard .... Toot toot ....
The ball is in their court brutuseless. The money they have always sought, isn't.
Occies, a world champ, in his prime, world wide elite broadcast, the infamous, 'worst ever performance'... considering the old standby, 'surfing's a dance aye!' And his almost pleading description of that inflexible, weak core thing, that's a surfing thing?
Like wise soufle' RCJ and Carroll, on that flat 2 dimensional lake? No turns, no jumps, no carves, much, much, much slower. Yet, pretty much helpless. Can you please explain... too athletic, too big and strong? Carroll needs to lose size and weight...
Hail mary's boys.
I'll stick up for yas both re the blacks stuff... well, against all odds, I'll do me best to!
Welly .
Please explain to him that water unlike groomed snow has a density / surface pressure element to it where the third dimension is buoyancy . Then get those bi massive downhill mates of yours to hike up the hill first . Maybe the equivalent of paddling out in massive beaches down this way . Anyway keep bang in' on about TC and RCj their size , is irrelevant to the topic .
Why is there so many runts and skinny people at the top level of surfing . simply it gives them an advantage . Full stop . We apologise now if that isn't fulfilling your wet dreams .
The fact is that in surfing, you never see big muscle bound strong blokes at the top level...?
Like it has all been said, flexibility, core etc, but hey many surfers have little pins as legs, so if their leg strength was greater, they could drive turns harder...? I've always thought that the postion when paddling around for hours on end, is the same postion in yoga called the rocking Bow, which stimulates your abdomen and keeps a healthy digestive system, as well as dehydration, maybe this is why surfers that surf everyday hours on end, tend to be on the thinner side.....? Food for thought.
As regards to elite downhill skiiers, they have sets of legs on them that are so strong, that have to be like shock absorbers especially at that speed, their traning regime is pressing heavy as wieghts. Ive seen the Norwegian downhill ladies/mens ski team train in the gym and on the field at Treble Cone years ago, holy heck what an eye opener. The ladies legs were huge thunder thighs, both of my little pegs was equivalent to one of their's, in the gym they were pressing alot of wieght. But you don't see them in extreme/freestyle comps.....? Different realm, again coming down to finese/flexibility etc...?
As for the ASP, I enjoy watching it when at home, but only in great waves ie Fiji, Jefferys Bay, Tahiti, Bells, Pipe, not a fan of watching it in Rio at all. IMO as what everyone has said above a different style of heats /comp would make it more interesting.
So has anyone here come up with the goods yet..........!
got the perfect answer. Scrap all asp contests. have a worldwide comp where allcomers could film their best 10 waves. At the end of the year peter drouyn could judge the winner. This would help me as Go Pro has hit the sharemarket and I could count the cash rolling in while I hire my Chechyin bodyguard to ensure my uncrowded barrels and win next years chumpionship. Although that mad fucker wiping out at The Right would surely take the title, bloody blow in.
I broke my neck, cant even bodysurf anymore, so do me a favour- catch a wave- smile- count your blessings.
Super developed muscles and weight training enhance flexibility. Gymnasts comprehensively prove it.
Takes a lot of work though.
I don't see much super paddling in ASP heats, they even used the ski's, after sitting around for ages at 2' rincon.
Break down a heat.
Sitting.
Paddling.
Riding waves.
Sitting usually takes up the most time. The other 2 especially surfing the wave are limited, short duration.
But still, maybe ASP surfing should push further in the direction it is heading. Maybe it just hasn't gone far enough yet?
http://stwww.surfingmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/whats-he-on-...
http://xgames.espn.go.com/surfing/article/9690519/taj-burrow-wins-2013-h...
Maybe they should make full use of the time sitting, and their ever growing tinyness, and use the whole arena, the beach as well.
Normally I wouldn't respond on a personal level but I'm pissed you just wasted 2mins of my life reading your post and clicking on some torture with a frickin chiuwawa.
Uplift, I know through the grapevine that in your day you were a charger. That's all a man can hope for is respect, but man your argument is over, give it up. If you can give some specific sport related science with tested biomechanics and kinesiology then I will listen. Until then I will glaze over your posts like I do the brazza paddling up the inside thinking he's going the next wave.
Take responsibility for what you waste mickfree. You did it.
I didn't or don't surf because of what you may or may not think of me mickfree. No disrespect, but its a waste of time. Will I feel good if you think I charge, bad if you dont? Cry if you said I got washed away. Thats useless. Puppet on a string stuff. Over half my surfs I surfed by myself. Sharks? Better ring the newspaper.
All my friends have always known my opinion of 'professional' surfing. Have a look at all these elite athletes in other sports, that surfers claim to be. Read magazines devoted to them. Training, nutrition, responsibilities, and yeh, muscles and so on are a big deal. Articles left right and centre. A huge, massive deal. Wellymon brought up how hard they were prepared to work, back when the world champ surfer was guzzling cokes and donuts, So is every utter detail, the ethic, a huge massive deal.
As much as I think Pacquiao is awesome, he dropped the ball. Suddenly chose half hearted. Half professional elite fighter, half politician. And it showed. And even at that level, he would work a zillion times harder than any supposed 'pro, elite athlete surfer'. Then he got serious. Look at what Bradley just chucked at him for 12 rounds. Awesome, insane conditioning, he took to Pacquiao with every possible drop of what he had. Elite intensity. So, the fans will pay to watch, can't help but be drawn.
I read some of this shit on here, its honestly comical. Bruteuseless openly ridiculed training, weights etc as ruining surfing on this site. Clueless. No idea. I watched Stormriders, same old, why train, no need, just go for a rev around the block, doing some burnouts instead. Great, pay yourself. I watch training routines of pro surfers. In all seriousness, its about as intense and hard core as a morning mum's and bub's fitball class on the lawn at the beach. I watch heats of guys, supposed pros, the best, the experts, sit around, and then miss sets, out of position. A final, the final, the actual final, the two best, at bells, ooowwwhhh, its so mean and nasty and onshore, at the critical moment, they didn't even see a set coming. No one even caught it after sitting around for ages. Even everyday mates at the beach lambast each other for stupid, lazy shit like that. Camel sat out alone at boatramps, that 'lineup' with a broken bone, and caught the bomb of the day, bomb of the era, and made sure he did. These guys are claiming to be super elite athletes, demanding the money. I watch guys, claiming to be elite, the worlds best, at the box barely make a wave. Miss set after set. I know 50 amateurs that would shut up for weeks if they were caught just falling off.
Look at what Richie Vas is learning. He's having a real shot, but guess what, look how hard the world's best are. No, I'll just go for a surf to have a rest, at the top. Ever had to run and jump and move so hard, you chuck, in an actual game, the event? Pro, elite athlete surfers skip out of the water... oh well just couldnt concentrate... where's me fuck'n cheque? No doubting the talent and skill, I've much respect for that. Lazy fuckers. Need a wittle howiday on ve beach, iths awl sstho stwessthfull. Pay for yourself then. You want the cheque, earn it. Get in super shape. 110%, bring it all, day after day, week after week, before you even dream of claiming. Then the world will pay. Like it does for elite athletes.
Your memory is astounding sometimes cuplift , 16 yrs ago , infected foot with 10 sutures actually but anyways your memory is fine at times. That same day brutelessismore was towsurfing a bommie across the channel coupla 20 fters he rode was also a bomb of that era psyco sunday !
uplift..the roids have affected your cell...you seem to watch every movie ,every video and draw your conclusions from second hand information...as previously discussed RCJ and Tom did a tongue in cheek send up,and you form an opinion based on that..
when do you think the last world champ guzzled coke and ate donuts....Kelly??
most of your opinions are based on hearsay and the past...along time ago.....
the last world champs are elite surfers...in every sense of the word Kelly Joel Mick....I am amassed that you watch sooo much surfing when its sooo inferior...you sound like a groupie.....with all that you have watched and criticized.....
its a pity you haven't watched any Pipe ,Chopes,Cloudbreak......over the years...you don't have a clue......you only see the negative....
stick with your beefcakes and stop embarrassing yourself here......I know how hard surfers are training as I see em everyday....crosstraing,diet etc.....
Using the body types for NFL, a human-powered collision sport, as a model for surfing, a wave-powered no-tackle sport, seems wildly off the point.
However, to use Uplift's NFL comparison, the closest NFL equivalent to a surfer's physical tasks is probably the Running Back.
They require reflexes, quick movement and deft physical positioning and balance.
The optimum height for an NFL running back is considered to be about 5'9". They do some moderate weight training, not to get big, but to provide protection against hits. Most of their physical training is for agility and is not in the weight room. A bit like surfers, in fact.
Excellent comment wally! You must be a top bloke.
Thinking about ASP surfers, the latest news of an ASP surfer was Freddy Patacchio winning the very recent Uluwatu challenge. Here is a photo of ASP man Freddy P. I don't know, but he looks kind of athletic to me.
http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2014/03/06/1226846/597263-5615b6a6-...
Nice how you commend yourself Wally;)
I don't think I've seen that before here????
Top bloke, sounds like you play grid iron, seen them down the road today so I pulled over and had a little look, a lot of stoppages probably similar to waiting for waves:)
A good comment from you wellymon.
Yeah, that fellow wally, I could talk about him all day. A top bloke, and surprisingly attractive. Well, people always seem surprised when I mention it.
Didn't MR win at least 1 world title on a diet of steak n chips chocolate and coke.
udo, I'm not sure MR could always afford steak.
Over 30 years ago now. Part of the fun and chaotic history of surfing.
MR's blog about his world cup trophies is a classic.
http://markrichardssurfboards.com/blog/2012/09/world-title-trophies/
Michael Ray Garvin played running back wally.
This is him training to just try and make the cut. He was considered too slow and not strong enough.
Admittedly, your memory is peds enhanced camsless. Towed eh. You should've sent him in. He should've paddled.
Your memory is shot brutuseless, the shock of blacks no doubt... its fairly common. You mouthed off and bagged training openly on here, and said that doing it would ruin surfing, that you never do it, ala Stormriders. Now, you are a fitness expert. Hilarious.
No one is buying, or paying for Parko's fishing trips.
Excellent example. Michael Ray Garvin, 7 time track All-American, fastest man in his draft, loves the weight room, the player most admired by body builders.
Didn't play much running back did he, a cornerback and kick returner. Now a wide receiver.
All that sprinting speed and muscles, but, different skills needed, so not a running back.
Didn't have the agility, reflexes and decision-making. Did the wrong training if he wanted to be a running back. Too many weights, for one thing.
Exactly, elite athlete, and college running back, reason he got drafted wally. But, welcome to the big time. To the elite. The weights any NFL running back lifts would only be able to be moved by ASP pros, if they hooked them up to their 4 x 4's.
Guess there's always this guy then wally.
Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!!! Look out Jacobs... OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!lil' taj is coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Draft that fucker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Athlete of the year is getting chosen soon. Plus the new highest paid list. Guess what?
Again, no one is buying your story wally. Respray it. Again... and again... and again... and again... and again... (did I say again?)
Well done, Uplift. You found a big'un.
Of course, as he is no one's list of great running backs, you once again prove my point.
That list has people like Walter Payton 5'10", Emmitt Smith 5’9" and Barry Sanders 5'7".
Yeh, wally the NFL seeks them out. They aren't thinking, oh, oh, too big, he'll be no good! And as pointed out in the video, the average NFL running back is over 15 stone, close to 100kg, of hard hitting, genuine elite athlete. They do plenty of weight training, at levels incomprehensible to ASP pros.
Still, you never know... (you may want to go into double glaze mode mickfree)
Hey Chuck! I think I just solved our damn running back problem! Check these eeelite mofucker surfee guys out!
OMG Bob, where did you find these guys... I aint never seen nuttin' like em, its damn zomasing, thats what it is!
I found a whole damn platoon of em Chuck, reeal eeelite mo fuckers!
Ya'all get their agent on the phone Bob... who is he?
Some guy named wally, Chuck, and he's bringin' em on down to the combine, they'll blow everyone away!
Just go ahead and sign those damn eeelite mofuckers Bob, before somebody else gets a hold of em!
Just wait till we unleash these eeelite fuckers on everybody Chuck, we just bought ourselves a Super Bowl!!!
A lot of the so called elite athletes are not huge at all, e.g.- Slater, Tiger Woods, Wimbledon champ, Andy Murray, Garry Ablett, all the world class sprinters and runners,etc,etc. The list goes on and covers a wide range of sports. Surely this goes against what is being continually said on this topic. Anyway just a thought. Seeya.
Winkie, tell us about golf... pro golfers do they train in any way ,weights light or heavy or any fitness routines ?
Traitor! Turncoat!
Here's what Tiger Woods coach Sean Foley said recently when asked:
'What can a golfer do right away to improve his ball striking?
Increase power. Power is a function of being able to have the pevic area go from flexion into extension. I watch a lot of the young golfers in the gym training like bodybuilders. Like with every other sport golf has gone in the direction of strength. There aren't many short hitters anymore. They all look like they could either have decided to play front-row forward or golf.'
Note, 'like every other sport'... except surfing of course, which is spiralling into the opposite direction, and fanless.
Here's Usain Bolt, loving his muscles.
And more elite sprinters:
Heres another elite sprinter:
http://anthonymychal.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/marathon-vs-sprint.jpg
(Thats a top surfer on the left by the way)
Ablett's leg is as big as ASP pro's.
Sell the clubs and join the gym zinger... traitor!
Was actually wishing for a response from Winkie, a man who knows golf.
no lack of memory here uplift.....your beefcakeitis disease is exactly what not to turn surfers into....and in the NFL its the wide receivers and cornerbacks that have to be slimmed down ...Deon sanders anyone???
I think we have fed your obvious lust for attention.....so lets leave it at this....beefcake playing tennis.....hmmmm........beefcake surfing.....won't happen unless you are claiming laird!!
Golfers play golf to keep fit for golf, none i know would ever go to a gym. Sorry. A lot of them do stretching, the golf swing starts with the legs for power, the same as if you were throwing a ball you would take a step, like cricket or tennis even though you are using your upper half. you don't need legs or thighs like tree stumps,the two longest hitters in the world,Woods and Adam Scott have got legs like paddle pop sticks. They certainly have no desire to bulk up. Sad but true i'm afraid.
Are you denying you said it bruteuseless?
Foley udes... no idea?
Uplift do you deny that you SIARGO'd??
and yes a little tongue in cheek as you already know...just havin a go at ya......but back to......???