Racism

Hi Indo been thinking a lot about what you wrote ,"Nobody disputes past atrocities they were obviously very wrong, but they don't have a bearing on the future of people no matter the acts or the people."
****** History is who we are. Warts an all! History is the story of who we were and now who we are. I believe that by embracing history we should be able not repeat mistakes of the past and use lessons of History to evolve to become better humans.
You referenced Nazi Germany and who bore the guilt for the Nazi war crimes. I was in Bochom Germany in the 80's at a trade show...... Bochum in a University hub so I was out a dinner one night with about 30 Germans all pretty pissed...when I dropped Adolphs name and asked please discuss in English...pretty amazing result, it was sorta 50/50 , those who said it had nothing to do with them, That was their parents etc........the other 50% took ownership that it was a cultural mutation , going back to the Teutonic knights , where Germany was all powerful, pride and the belief that Germany was "THE" superior race.....after about 1/2 an hr it was clear to see the anger from those who said it had nothing to do with them( It was another generation) , whereas there was a very calm sadness from those who had studied history and took ownership of the fact that the German Nazi era was a culmination of repressing German Culture with the treaty of Versailles........which turned Germany into a repressed nation , and fertile for the Nazi narrative ....lessons were learned Germany admitted to genocide of the Jews, built memorial/museums ...and they do not forget this era....as no-one wants a repeat!

IMHO that mindset is extremely dangerous, if you believe you are a product of your ancestors past and that past isn't pretty and you focus on that you will surely bring negativity to your future.
**** It goes both ways , would you deny truths , just because it might have a negative message/affect? We are still learning about how to live together warts and all....you cannot understand a problem without taking into account the facts of the problem so you can understand .....which is why Dark Emu is an important , as it brings another element of the Blackfella's side of the story...

It goes both ways, if my grandfather was a Nazi and responsible for the hundreds of deaths of innocent Jews, i would in no way be responsible in anyway for those deaths and should not harbour any guilt for those deaths to do so would be self destructive.
****** read above Germany admitted Genocide of the Jews , lest we not forget!

What is important would be my actions today and moving forward and how i am as a person.
******** yes but does that person understand 50-60000 years of stewardship/custodianship the culture that was here before whiteman , and the 200 years of mistreatment has led to where we are today......still don't understand Australia's Indigenous history...the abuse and treatment they received has had an enormous negative affect ........

Hi Indo .just wondering if you are going to answer my last post and the idea there are those who ignore history and those who embrace it?

Hi brutus are you indigenous fellas offended if AB is used to describe you
eg: AB surfer ?

Hi Brutus

Sorry didn't see your post before.

Ha ha I would have loved to be at that table or a fly on the wall, that would have been quite a moment to see peoples reactions if you had a friend of partner with you im sure you would have been getting a few nudges or death stares, i don't think i would have been so brave, actually i know i wouldn't be so brave i don't even feel comfortable talking to Germans about that era of history one on one unless they bring it up in conversation, same goes with indigenous people in everyday life unless it was them who brought up the topic it's not something i would discuss.

It is interesting though to hear that story, it is good to hear these things from real people rather than just read about it etc especially when you have a large random group of people like that. (like i mentioned earlier ive had a similar situation where the topic of Dutch came up among a decent sized group of Indonesians)

hmmm i don't know if it's as simple as just saying some people embrace history and some ignore it, to me those are the two extremes i think there is a lot of grey in between, i certainly don't think we should ignore history.

BTW. Back to the forum topic of Racism, from a *white persons perspective and having some insight into things from having an Indonesian wife and many Indonesian friends in Australia some with quite dark skin (plus wife has PNG and African friends with very dark skin so i always hear stories about everything that happens dramas etc), it seems there has been big changes in attitudes in the last 20 years . (* god i have that word)

From your perspective which is obviously very different and you are older than me and im sure at times experienced racism, especially im sure 20+ years ago when attitudes where very different.

Do you feel like things have drastically improved?

Do you still have to deal with racism?

(Actually i think i might have even asked you before i kind of recall vagualy the answer, but still good to hear in this thread and for anyone else reading)

Also this is a bit of a random thought, I've mention this kind of thing/aspect before, but do you feel like you are at a disadvantage in some circumstances knowing if someone is just a rude/not nice person or being racist towards you.

For instance yesterday i was doing a bit of work in a public area trying to make use of a dry day (even if the forecast was for rain)

I keep needing to pass these old women sitting there with dogs and this little dog kept barking at me every time i passed, so i went down to pat it to try to make peace with the dog so next time it wouldn't bark, and the reaction from this women who had the dog on the lead was totally over the top saying No no no no! really loudly and aggressively, kind of shocked me it was just so over the top and totally rude, so i just said okay okay and walked off. (maybe she was scared of covid, but i still was some distance from her and the dog didn't seem aggressive) normally people love it when you pat their dog and it results in some friendly chat chat.

But if i had been a darker skinned person after that i would have been thinking from her reaction that maybe that women didn't like dark skinned people, i wouldn't have know why she reacted the way she did, but im sure that would be my first thought, rather than, man this lady is just weird/rude.

BTW. Dont get me wrong if you still do experience racism (which i hope you dont) im not saying/implying all the circumstances are like that, but just interested if things like that happen and then do you feel like you are at a disadvantage on not knowing what the person is really thinking

Ive kind of seen that happen with my wife when someone reacts negatively, rude etc her first thoughts are its because she is Asian when there has been times i know that the person is just not a nice person in general (arrogant, rude, have attitude etc) as i know who they are and type of person they are.

Some interesting discussions on here over the weekend.
Brutus' German anecdote makes me wonder (and apologies for the can of worms this might open) - can there be a difference between individual and communal responsibility/culpability? E.g. it would seem obvious that I cannot be held culpable for actions committed by my ancestors, but could/should my culture/community/people? Ought the anglo/gaelic Australian establishment owe reparation to Indigenous peoples? (I ask because I honestly don't know the answer to that... very complex topic, but I'm interested in others' thoughts).

p.s. Zen, so sorry for your loss. Hope you're coping OK.

Hi Indo , yeah I was a pretty heavy shit stirrer in my younger days , and I was always fascinated by how Adolf turned Germany into a World military power so quickly and efficiently......from a broken nation to the rise of the 3rd Reich in a decade......a depression that was brought about by very bad Government financial decisions , and a bursting financial bubble in the USA...........so history taught me first hand an explanation for the Nazi era , the cause and effect , and how Germans deal with the ongoing Holocaust narrative today....by addressing the collective guilt of the past , and becoming part of a healing narrative .
You mention the Dutch and the Indonesians , I think it's a different scenario , as Indonesia became politically completely independent culture and all.....imagine if the same was true in Australia.......that Australian Indigenous culture was the leading and dominant culture that ran Government etc....what would Australia look like?

Do I think things have changed for the better...yes.....we are a cosmopolitan country now , and I would like to be part of Australia embracing and absorbing it's indigenous culture..changing the narrative to ,"what can we learn ?"
I will never recover completely from racist shit in my life..some of which I have reciprocated physically and verbally.......anger does not resolve anything especially when it takes you to the point of violence...I see this now as a lose/lose......anger/violence.....part of the weakness of man!

I like your story about the dogs and the old ladies....I wonder what their reaction would have been if it was me??
I live with this everyday......wondering what to make of some comments/actions , rumor/innuendo....you end up becoming paranoid and negative...

So part of our future narrative should be one of listening and if you don't understand the issue , be careful you do not add fuel to the issue , by you not understanding the issue fully , educate yourself by trying to fact check the issue and look at both sides....like me Fox news and CNN....now there's a challenge....

Pops , yes there is a difference between individual/cultural , reponsibility/culpibility......I like to think it starts with an individual putting his hand up and proclaiming.
1) I/we have a problem/issue such as racism and I want to know the full story/facts so I have an opinion based and truth
2) Armed with facts and your opinion , talk to others , on both sides of the issue....and see if there is common ground ...such as we are all humans different creeds and colors , we love our families ......constructive dialogue in trying to achieve a collective way of respecting each other and living and growing together..
3) collective guilt is easy to deal with , as it usually just that guilt , so become an active part of the solution , change your daily habits and address issue and you are more than 1/2 way there......
4) as far as reparations go , the interesting part about our indigenous culture is the whole Ownership/ greed/it's mine/judge me by my bank acc and the toys I can buy which is a big part of Western Culture....forget about the $'s for a moment and maybe look at the question , what have I contributed to , have I given more than I have taken, can I do better fro my family and friends or even a stranger.....give not take?

Thanks Brutus, good response. Especially pt 4.

thanx for listening and reading , hopefully some of us took another step in evolving out of racist attitudes......bit surprised some of our louder postee's silence have been deafening.......but really happy how Indo kicked in....

So many personal stories of how badly aboriginal people have been treated have been told to me. Stories mostly told with great sadness mixed with anger. All happened in my lifetime. I feel I disrespect those people and the strength and warmth they possessed to live their lives to talk openly here about their stories. One thing all the aunties told me I’ll say; they all gave birth to their children on the back porches of the towns bush nursing hospitals, they weren’t allowed inside because they were aboriginal. Things are different now but that was 1960s country Victoria.

The aunties have passed but their children who walk and work among us know how their parents were treated.

In the books thread I posted about Derek Rielly's new book on David Gulpilil.

This doco is worth a look too.

https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/video/1415699523925/Another-Country

Come on Brutus ......greed is a Western thing ?

You’ve traveled, mate. No excuses for opinions like that. I don’t want to get confrontational about it after such a great discussion you blokes are having, just thought that needed to be nipped in the bud.

I don’t think that granting the history of blackfellas blanket immunity to greed is being very realistic, do you ? They might not have hoarded Lamborghinis but you can bet your life they killed others for territory and women.

brutus, Didn't post on this because it's not my field of expertise. My knowledge of indigenous culture is poor. We simply didn't learn any of it in school. I've managed to pick up a little knowledge, respect what I have learnt, but certainly don't know enough to go posting about it here.
Now if you want to discuss the rise of the extremist far right, and how to counter it, I'll be banging away like there's no tomorrow.

Vic, you never told us the end result when you infiltrated the neo nazi gang?

Vic Local going deep undercover amongst the White Supremacists

Sorry Zenagain,
The little white supremacist gang quickly disbanded and a high profile bloke got the arse for using his work email to send articles to a neo-nazi magazine. Good result.

Oh and blowin, you are too stupid to be a below average troll.

I'd have to agree Vic. Hopefully they didn't break up into little splinter groups though. They're like cockroaches- you can never fully get rid of them.

Vic Local played private investigator on someone who wasn’t living within his narrow parameters of acceptable thought and so Vic Local had them cancelled ?

True Neo Nazis can go wilt but if Vic Local’s online opinions are anything to go by , the neo Nazis in question we’re probably regular people that he disagreed with. I for one find the inappropriate, moralistic sanctimony he pumps out completely off putting and it renders any good intentions he may hold moot.

There’s probably less than 200 proper White supremacists in Australia I’d imagine. Who knows , .that may be an exaggeration ?

And whilst we continuously get beat over the head about the impending Neo Nazi death cult , another terrorist attack in England today. Three innocent people murdered another three seriously injured.

The media completely avoiding mentioning just exactly what type of terrorism attack it was because they don’t want to stir antipathy , yet there’s no fear of antipathy when it comes to police or white people.

Blowin, you fucking idiot. These blokes were going around bashing people due to the colour of their skin.
And yes zenagain the far right cockroaches tend to form, break up, and reform into new groups. The leaders have some massive falling outs and that tends to break things up pretty quick. New disciples to the cause, often work out that their leaders are complete and utter fuckwits, walk away, and go do something useful with their lives.
The key is to never let the boneheads get too organised. When they try to set up clubrooms, landlords are notified. When they target universities with sticker campaigns, run them off campus. If pubs host their meetings, word gets around and the pubs get boycotted. etc The last thing Australia needs is for these fuckwits to be able to march / brawl in the streets, in big groups, like in England. I know that's crushing for people like blowin, but so be it. care factor zero.

Everything you say just gets dismissed as soon as you level the pitiful accusations at myself. Not sure what that’s about but it certainly makes you come across as a weirdo.

By any measure , I’m not a white supremacist and your continued insinuations lend me to believe you are mentally unstable.

You got evidence about your story of blokes beating people up because of the colour of their skin ? The ABC would give its yearly budget for a single confirmed racial bashing to bludgeon the entirety of Caucasian Australia over the head with , yet the best they can come up with is some clown yelling at an Asian on a bus or someone spitting in the street. And here you are telling us about modern day Romper Stomper activity.....

blowin, you may not be goose-stepping in the street (yet), but you spend literally hundreds, maybe thousands of hours posting racist shit on this forum. Thousands of post mate many with links to deeply racist material. You're dedicated to the cause.
Violent extremism, be it islamic terrorism or white supremacy, doesn't just happen in a vacuum. People are radicalised, typically online by reading hate speech. This hate speech usually includes drawing in grand conspiracy theories. eg like the one you made about media coverups.
I've studied how people become violent extremists. It can be quite a fast process and it's very similar for right wing thugs and Islamic terrorists.
Mate, the warning signs are definitely there for you. The obsession with various ethnic groups, the threat of violence, the willingness to round up specific groups for deportation, and the fundamental dishonesty with your commentary are dangerous trends. Let's hope you don't take the next step, taking your online racism out on the streets.
At a bare minimum, you are spreading racist bullshit that may influence others. At best, you're no better than the backyard imams who would never take up arms, but are happy to spread hate to their followers. Hopefully nobody takes you seriously.
I called you a "garden variety racist" a while back. That was an under-call. Your obsession with promoting enormous levels of racist material online shows you've gone beyond that. You're heading down a dangerous road blowin. Maybe time for you to find a new hobby?

I don't want to add fuel to the fire, but what you just wrote Vic was 'garden variety' tripe.

You're projecting man.

And you have to skoll- you just said 'hate speech'.

And what hobby will lend the same satisfaction as stirring sanctimonious weirdo twats on the internet until they reveal just how out of touch with reality they actually are .....as you just did.

It raises my concern to imagine that you have any official authority behind your truly crazed thinking. Even to consider that kooks like you - in the usage of the word describing mental incapacity- may be able to generate a level of sympathy within public discourse is a bit alarming. I’m not saying you should be censored but that maybe you should have a flashing alarm associated with your internet activity which alerts others to the fact that they are engaged with a certifiable strange fucker.

Really blowin, All I've done is hold racists to account. Your response to this is to question my mental health, insinuate I'm a pedophile, and said you'd pay me a visit. That's straight out of the bone-head playbook.
Go fishing blowin. Think very hard about what you post.

Ok Blowin try reading this .....it gives you an idea of how Blackfellas had their laws/Gods/Spirits and a pretty damn good social system not born of greed but of how to live with the land and be part of the land , called stewardship/custodianship , but not ownership .....so at the time of Invasion , it was colonialism vs spiritualism.......
ownership and the need to dominate and make money, ...power and money vs Blackfella's 600000 year custodianship......

try reading this https://austhrutime.com/australian_aboriginal_tribes.htm

You said I was not far off goose stepping and that I’m going down a dangerous path.

You said I was like a hate preaching Imam who doesn’t use the weapons himself, implying that I invite others to use weapons and violence.

You describe my legitimate and widely held concerns over the Chinese totalitarian government as “ obsession with various ethnic groups “.

You’re a fucken weirdo is what you are and I suspect you’re not fully sane.

blowin....not sure where you get your stats from , but 200 white supremacists , wow , I would say there are millions ...you only have to look at the National/Pauliine/parts of the liberal party.......there has been shit loads of racist attitudes put forward...most of it uneducated ,like Pauline thinks she's indigenous because she's born here.

Most of my life I have thought Australia to be the most racist country on the planet , until travelling did show me racism everywhere in one form or another , but I never really understood why Colonial UK , had to denigrate and treat the indigenous peoples with contempt as savages , even tried genocide with the stolen generation.....

So , thats Australia's contemporary history....so how do we fix it?

A Journey of Health & Wellbeing (produced by the WA Dept of Health/Aboriginal Health Policy Directorate).

A simple overview of Colonisation to present time from an Indigenous perspective. Possibly good to share with your children (age appropriate).

To be fare on blowin, His estimate of approximately 200 full on boneheads in Australia is not that far off the mark. It's probably a few more than that but we're not talking tens of thousands. Maybe 1000 max.
The Cronulla Riot, where 5000 idiots hunted down "wogs and lebs" is a good example of what happens when garden variety racists get organised. In 2005, smart phone use and social media was not nearly as large as it is now, so the dangers of another Cronulla Riot are enhanced now. We've seen multiple far right rallies in Melbourne over recent years. Luckily the police as much more aware of the dangers and show up in huge numbers.
Race hate rises during times of hardship, and we've seen an increase in online activity by the far right and an increase in race crimes against Asian Australians.
We've also seen a new breed of racist entrepreneurs (yes grifters) who develop a social media audiences for profit. These grifters call on their fans to get in the street in the USA and the UK. It creates more stories for their social media channels and more $$$ in the bank accounts. If a few POC get killed or bashed, so be it.
Blowin, you may not throw the punches, but you sure as shit help mainstream this type of crap with endless links to far right material. Everyone on this site knows, that if another Cronulla-style event happened, you would not be calling for calm. You'd be front row centre or cheering on the thugs from your keyboard.

The Cronulla protest action solved the problem of disrespectful and antisocial ethnic - based groups from targeting innocent people at Cronulla using the same mode of action as moderate BLM protests.

It was a good thing , despite the complete misread of the situation by people such as yourself. The community was not being adequately protected by the authorities and they grouped en mass. Just like the BLM rallies it was “ mostly “ peaceful.

If you choose to ignore causation then that’s your personal failing .

I'm gonna put something out there from a personal side.

My Uncle, my fathers older brother, along with his wife adopted two ful blood native sisters as toddlers from a very, shall we say disadvantaged background. I'm not sure of the exact circumstances but they came from the Newman area in WA, Uncle Big Sam was based in Perth. He was called Big Sam because he was a giant of a man, in heart and stature.

Now they raised these two little girls as their own, side by side with their two children, my cousins by blood. I guess the girls are my cousins by adoption. The girls lived a happy, normal life and both have grown up great chicks- die hard Weagles supporters, both have good jobs, one made an Australian national sporting team, the other has a bit of a name for her Aboriginal art. They're lovely, funny girls and we adore them. Uncle Big Sam passed away about 5 years ago, they were gutted, as you know my dad just recently. They are sad beyond belief because they love mum and dad and are prevented from travelling to dads funeral (which is today) and in turn they love them.

It saddens me to hear that many years ago mum and dad took them shopping somewhere in Perth and walking hand in hand with these two little dark skinned girls, they were screamed at at with vile abuse by members of their own tribe as to basically how dare mum and dad be with these two little girls. It must have been frightening for everyone. Thankfully it was a once off, but it sure did sting.

My point is, do my cousins think they are of the stolen generation? I'm not sure and I guess they have probably had their fair share of racism, I can't say. What I do know is they were raised with love and the end result is two happy, educated, well adjusted human beings.

I don't really know where I'm going with this but when I hear of the stolen generation, i think of my cousins and my thoughts are mixed.

Wow, you cheer on the Cronulla rioters, but you're not a racist are you blowin!!!!
If you were trying to prove my point about the dangers of a violent racist mob, thanks, that's just such a good example.
How about the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville? Are you cool with that one as well?

How do you feel about my old boss sunbathing at Cronulla in a bikini and getting beaten up by ME chicks and called an 'Aussie slut' Vic? They fractured her eye socket and put her in hospital and did a runner. Of course they couldn't be identified.

Mid-week, mid morning, reading a book, enjoying some rare quiet time then hospitalised. No hate there 'eh?

Blowin , now as you don't know the full story on the Cronulla Riots...I got the impression you think it was a win from the Cronulla mob ?

Reality was that they bit off way more than they could handle , and Western Sydney Mob were armed organized and ready to go to a couple more levels of Violence , which would have claimed lives on both sides...a truce was brokered behind the scenes ,the rapists were sent back to the homeland to their uncles , and the surfing community including the Bra Boys became more accepting of some of the ethnic groups that were once seen as enemies!
As usual there were white supremacists involved chanting racist insults!

"How do you feel about my old boss sunbathing at Cronulla in a bikini and getting beaten up by ME chicks and called an 'Aussie slut' Vic? They fractured her eye socket and put her in hospital and did a runner. Of course they couldn't be identified."

I lived there through that whole period, learnt to surf there, first experiences living out of home, hanging on the beach all weekend, going out every night, the whole bit, and from my observations the Cronulla riots were based on bullshit. I heard so many people, good friends, acquaintances, come out with stories that were utterly fabricated.

I don't doubt some incidents occurred, and I'm not directing this at you Zen, but somehow those rare incidents turned into grave transgressions involving every second person - or a friend of theirs.

Trust me, if its race you're after, white blokes belted each other many orders of magntiudes more than did Middle Eastern fellas, of which I didn't witness a single incident until the reprisals began post-riots.

I don't want to go into it, but please don't hold Cronulla up as some justification of national values.

It's completely false.

I know that Stu, she is a born and bred Cronulla local. This was before the riots and I'm well aware this is the exception to the rule. Meatheads looking for trouble, can happen anywhere any time. And it certainly didn't colour my thoughts any differently.

I was just directing my thought at Vic who tends to take out the tar brush but believe that anyone that is not of the vanilla variety is capable of prejudice.

Zen and Brutus,

Your story of your Uncle's family has prompted me to address on this forum, thoughts that I have been thinking long and hard about and would be interested for others in this very situation including Brutus to explain their thoughts.

Since white man colonised (invaded) (call it what you like), many 100% indigenous people have married, partnered or had children with ,lets say foreigners, from many different countries or regions, including British, Europeans, Asians etc.
Then as these children grow to adults, they to have children with partners of differing ethnicities and so on.
As generations passed for the last 200 plus years and this mixing continues, I am curious to know how indigenous people with mixed blood see their own identity, considering their partners were probably part white.
Brutus, do people with mixed heritage have conflicting ideas on how to reconcile a stance or a position in society?
I am a simple person born and bread in Australia by European parents of differing nationalities. My brothers and sister were raised as Aussies and my parents assimilated into Australian society very well and they appreciated the chance of a new life after experiencing WW2 first hand.
I chose to also have an International marriage, have had 2 children and are still married after 35 years.
What I was taught by my parents was tolerance, honesty, obey the law, respect, kindness, love and learn to" pull your head in"

I do understand why Indigenous or part indigenous people hold onto their culture, and believe there is much we can learn about it and hopefully intergrate and learn from each other.
I hope we continue to resolve issues and close the gaps between all the cultures that exist in Australia in search of harmony and a safe society.

zenagain, if this did happen as you described, it's truly horrendous and there's no excuse for it.
What the Cronulla riots taught us is how quickly a mob can be whipped up. Two weeks after a minor fight between a few young men, there was 5000 people in the street targeting anyone who looked middle-eastern. Mob justice that targeted innocent people. All it took was a text message chain and a racist shock jock to whip that scene up. You don't need to scratch too deep below the surface to uncover serious racism in Australia.

Yeah those of us with mixed blood do have conflicting ideas on how to reconcile a stance or a position in society. I know both sides of my heritage and it's sometimes hard to rise above the anger. Despite everything I've managed to achieve, reconciling my identity is the greatest of the lot, but it's also the most fragile.

I heard an interesting little theory the other day when dr Karl Kruszelnicki was reasoning why bees would sting you if they knew they would die from it. The theory goes that because a bee hive is just a large family, that the motivation came from protecting the queen bee because she was the carrier of the DNA. The idea being that what the stinging bee gets out of it is some of their DNA still gets carried forward thanks to the queen. The real interesting part of the theory is that it is the DNA that is the main “driver”, “life force”, “soul” (insert yourself own appropriate word there) responsible for the actions and the bee is just the meat bag carrying the DNA information.

Now I know civilisation is all about overcoming these primal triggers, but there’s a very real chance that racism is inbuilt in us all, and maybe some carry it stronger than others.

Maybe it’s like telling a gay person to overcome their hard wiring

Mindora,

Totally understandable position, it will be interesting to read other opinions to see if there is some consensus.

Shoredump,

I agree that racism could be inbuilt in all of us, and also many humans have good reason to be racist and unfortunately act upon it in society. Others have also good reason to be racist but find it within themselves to forgive, forget and move on.

Hi Zen...what an amazing story , and given 1/2 a chance ( Education and a loving home....easy...
It's rather ironic you tell the story of racism towards your 2 adopted cousins by blackfellas , as I was adopted also , and had major dramas with the local clan , who saw me as some kind of uppity blackfella , and whites were wary as I was not like them...
It's a bit like Japan with Chinese and Nth Koreans...you would never know it until you actually spent time and had conversations with Japanese how racist they can be....but it seems the younger generation are a lot less racis?

Hi Indo , replied to you again when ya ready?

Mindora , I think what you said is brilliant especially the way you have reconciled a lot of past hurts.....but damn , it is a Fragile state of mind , which lingers in our dark sub-conscious........to say the last mth has been challenging is an understatement....but then tell it like it is and if we can affect one person positively it's all good..as the maybe he or she will tell someone else.....communicate and respect!

I'm pretty sure Brut that Japanese kids couldn't care less these days. All the kids are into K-Pop and everything Korean. But it's very different with my wifes generation. You've met her, comes across as gentle, smart, thoughtful- totally fucking irrational towards other Asian nations especially China and Korea. Ironically has Chinese and Korean friends. When I point this out to her- 'they're different'.

Each of these countries has tv shows on prime time devoted to talking shit about each other. It's comical.

I had a t-shirt years ago that jokingly had 'i'm not American' printed in Arabic across the chest. My wife wants one that says 'I'm not Chinese' for when we next come home.

The thing is- she's serious.

well,,yeah japan.

Some good interesting post from Zen, Ocean11, Mindora.

BTW. I don't think racism is inbuilt in us, i just think we are naturally tribal and look to seperate on differences, and we are such a visual species.

Indo, is there any difference between an inbuilt predisposition to tribalism-plus-judgement/differentiation-based-on-appearance and racism?
Seems a distinction without a difference to me, but is there some nuance I've missed?