Turnbull rolls over "again" to the ultra right

Sypkan, moving forward sounds good but if India needs coal then so be it. As the article you linked suggests there are many jobs involved and that is the essence of this project. You may be aware that there are about 1200 coal fired power stations in the world, 800 in India and China, Aus has about 20-24.
How India solves its energy problems is obviously for them and if one truly wanted to put a solution in place immediately, you would have to look at nuclear.
The hyperbole and hypocrisy is there, sure. That's politics.
Cavemen technology, yes maybe but that's all we've got if you don't like nuclear. At least for the foreseeable future.

I was being facetious using 'moving forward' as I cannot believe we accept such geek speak while the system seems to be crumbling around us.

geez you love this burning shit debate tony.it's up to India to sort their shit out, and us our shit. we need not encourage the old ways, but we do, because of entrenched political and financial bias, and that's all it is, because there will be other jobs fitting with whatever solutions we choose.

current nuclear, no thanks, I'm with sherpdog, I'll take my chances with the 'infallible' science being exaggerated somewhat.

baseload!...fusion!..., I hear you say (not yet, but you will)

well it appears the baseload thingy is a bit of a myth, or at least will be within 20 years. a much shorter timeframe than you nuclear nutters will produce fusion

http://www.skepticalscience.com/print.php?r=374

http://theconversation.com/baseload-power-is-a-myth-even-intermittent-re...

back to turdball, you're right floyd, up to our mammaries in turds is better than before but....

he's been quite the arrogant fool thinking he could distract and deflect whilst doing actually nothing and ride the public's love to victory. shorten is looking like he's got a chance, I hope he's up to it,

I don't quite get this ABCC thing, I know it's liberal ideology fuelling it. but to make such a big deal about something.that most people don't really give a fuck about and make a DD election just seems ridiculous. is it purely to have an election while they're still in favour?

could be funny if that strategy backfires.

they've refused to negotiate, then whinge the the senate won't pass it. pretty sure it's his job to convince the senate otherwise. it's democracy.

as glen lazarous just said, it's a bit rich they won't consider a wider reaching anti corruption body with all this tax haven and corruption shit coming out. alright to target corruption as long as it's not his mates.

and then fuck me, in an amazing moment of synchronicity, that disgusting miserable liberal laden entity Wilson Security is named in the Panama papers, oh but it's the public that's cynical

Floyd - I think the new coal ditch is pushing ahead simply because those involved want their fees. It doesn't stack up at all, but execs need to get paid too, that new car ain't going to pay for itself.

Tony, nuclear is dead. It's completely uneconomical. Wind+Solar+(local renewable like water or geothermal)+gas/biogas/biomas is the way forward. There's also lot of scope to add to existing capacity with renewables, then incrementally replace the existing sources with renewables as they wear out.

Yeah well, I was scratching my head about the coal mine approval, but the fact is that it will never happen.

It can't make money unless the coal price doubles, the bankers won't back it because it can't make money, and there is no need for it as viable coal fields are being closed down while the price is so low, and there are a batch of more efficient coal mines producing better coal that aren't making any money and they don't need a 300 km rail track and a port to be built.

Still, pretty cynical of the Qld Labor government to approve it knowing that they can't even think about starting it unless coal prices double and then some. It's a risky move, and they would have won more plaudits from me by just getting up and saying we won't approve it because it's crazy.

Someone may be interested to look behind the scenes and work out whether the government have to pay reparations to the company if they don't approve it. I suspect that is the case, and this decision is just a ploy to avoid compensation.

Hope it works out that way.

Still, even with that approval there is an Indigenous land claim over some of the site and another federal court case hearing pending, which could go all the way to the high court, and they would have to get those sorted before a sod of dirt is turned.

And then find tens of billions in loans that even a payday lender wouldn't go near.

Not going to happen.

Sypkan, the articles you provided are referencing either the US or Europe. Not applicable to Aus. We have a totally different scenario. Have you thought why Labor premier Wetherill set a royal commission into nuclear. Maybe worth a look at its terms of reference.
I would like to see how Lazarus would handle two Comanchero muscles smash his car headlights and taillight up just because he drove a cement truck for Boral. Happened to a good mate.
Sure the Panama papers is shit and I hope the slippery buggers get hit. You will soon find out that aint just liberal shits but anyone trying to hide the cash.

well tony I would argue that anything that can be done in European and US cities can be done here, and that we waste even more energy through leakage, inefficiency, and wastage running at excess through low load times. not to mention solar, wind and decentralisation of infrastructure suiting australia more, not less,

I'm confused tonybarber, should I be paying those union dues to save me from the big bad world or not? you're kinda contradictory on this topic.

hope you're right batfink, it amazes me how some totally illogical and unviable shit gets up when certain people and bodies are involved

Aaaand the disunity continues..... Shambles....

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/captains-call-l...

Fuckn hell, Floyd...... Could Blurb Shingles do a Bradbury? Branch stacking rock Libs!!!!! More imploding from this turkey of a government;

https://au.news.yahoo.com/vic/a/31538038/vic-libs-face-branch-stacking-c...

"Libs are always better at managing the economy ah Indo, Barley & Tones!"

Wake up you guys, the Right are dismantling YOUR Australia.

The analysis of the loss of this industry has now been done to death Floyd, both parties increasingly poor policy since the Button Plan, no review of the plan, Lima Agreement, Aussies not supporting Aussie made, Free Trade Taliban at DFAT, RBA the only central bank not playing 'beggar thy neighbour' within ongoing currency wars (high AUD), union wage & conditions vs rest of world, a whole half shift at Toyota disappearing on Friday when Oz day was on a Thursday one year, Rudd/Gillard stripping 500m from the Auto assistance package and giving said 500m to the Arts, and the especially the parent companies being foreign owned (no domestic capital or backing Australian owned enterprise) and deciding to pull the plug without concern for the national interest. There's more, the car forums have dissected it completely over the last 5 years or so.
Two Aussie cars in the garage here, still going strong, support our own & Aussie jobs. Maybe we can all work building houses for each other and charging increasingly high prices for them. Or on roadworks...

Haha your floggin a dead horse andy..are you a conroy stooge?billys puppet?labor will get smashed..deal with it..and if they dont it wont matter..your $80 an hour you charge for doin fuck all will remain the same..your kids education you wont have to pay for neither your $100000 knee surgery you threw out while surfin the ments..but hay whinge and whine how you guys have it bad all ya like...whatever makes ya feel less guilty..

No guilt involved at all Barley, just making judgements based on past form. And that includes policy regarding education and health. Too bad if people don't have money eh Barley.

hey barley, tones, indo, nick3, name just one economy where trickle down economics has worked in the last 40 years .... just one where the economy has grown along with wealth for all, where the gap b/w rich and the average joe has narrowed, where new jobs have been created and where the economy doesn't have a deficit ......... just one[/quote

Nice input Blowin.

Australia america canada new zealand england..you saying our economy doesnt work? The same economy that enables you to sit on here all day everyday doing fuck all feeling important? Yeah it doesnt work....dropkicks i wish it didnt work haha..but fuck you guys are experts ay?

is that not true Floyd ?

It's true for me.

And everyone I know .

And most of the people I know are not what you'd call well off at all.

But still their standard of living is world class.

You doin the rugby league thing and shootin in your own mouth floggy?

Agree Barley and Blowin.

IMO my life and my family's and friends and all the people in the communities around me are all better off than we were, im not old enough to remember much from 40 years ago but from what my parents told me and the struggle they had.

From what i remember in the 90,s when i didn't really try to get a job as was happy to be on the dole surfing but down here on Phillip Island there was no jobs, no building was going on, property was cheap but no body could afford to buy it, people basically gave blocks away because they couldn't afford to pay the rates.

IMO everything has improved or stayed similar the only negative is more population/people/surfers and more rules but i guess that's just the flip side of it all.

Some people like you Floyd just like to whinge, you don't, know how good we have it in Australia, shits good man enjoy it, anyway im off to Indo so that's about me for a month or so.

She'll be right Floyd, Straya's a good country so don't do anything, and whatever you do don't be rational and use yer brain cos then you'll be a whinger.

How much of the increasing gap in equality is attributable to the implementation of true globalisation do you think ?

PS Andy ,that kind of post - assuming you're the only person who's come to their opinion through considered thought - isn't really doing you any favours.

People have different experiences and varying perspectives.

As I've said, everyone I know and 99 percent of the communities that I visit reveal an exception standard of living by any world standards.

To recognise this isn't mindless cheerleading, just simple observation.

PS. Loving the way you so graphically illustrate your contempt for the Aussie people by holding their pronunciation of the word Australia as evidence of their generic stupidity.

PPS. I'm not a fan of the school of thought that says trickle down theory is unquestionable, but I do believe that power will always accrue disproportionately with a minority due to the human condition and capitalism is just a reflection of that.

indo-dreaming wrote:

Agree Barley and Blowin.

IMO my life and my family's and friends and all the people in the communities around me are all better off than we were, im not old enough to remember much from 40 years ago but from what my parents told me and the struggle they had.

From what i remember in the 90,s when i didn't really try to get a job as was happy to be on the dole surfing but down here on Phillip Island there was no jobs, no building was going on, property was cheap but no body could afford to buy it, people basically gave blocks away because they couldn't afford to pay the rates.

IMO everything has improved or stayed similar the only negative is more population/people/surfers and more rules but i guess that's just the flip side of it all.

Some people like you Floyd just like to whinge, you don't, know how good we have it in Australia, shits good man enjoy it, anyway im off to Indo so that's about me for a month or so.

So during the recession of the nineties you didn't really look for a job because you were happy freeloading on the dole. Aaaahhhh the good times :)

Your an idiot floyd..your 'real' world conspiracies are ridiculous..i believe the greens call it xenophobia..but your a green voter..or are you labor? But your like southey and change ya story?..all you wanna do is kick and scream about how shit life is or the gov is..here have another 30c out of my dollar so you can check the net forecast tomoz

Blowin, considering that you don't know the difference between big and small l liberals, I'm far from convinced that you've really thought this through in much depth.

And I'll say it for about the fifth time, just because we (generally) have a good standard of living doesn't mean that we shouldn't hold out politicians to account. Why would you get apathetic and coast along?

The people I hold in contempt are those that are not only apathetic but they also want to cut down anyone who appears to give a shit. Fuggin Straya.

I know the difference Andy.

Politicians always need to be held to account.

Personally , I believe that suspended over an open fire would be the best place to commence the accounting...but you try convincing security at Parliament House of that course of action.

It's not apathy to appreciate what you have, conversely a vigilant eye on the future doesn't require the denigration of the present situation does it ?

And I'm not sure if viewing the world through shit stained glasses is going to aid future generations ?

It'll just cruel today for you.

I also think you're labouring under the mistaken belief that if someone doesn't hold the same viewpoint as yourself it's because they don't give a shit.

Maybe , like I asked of Floyd, you would be kind enough to state exactly how you'd like Australia to be as opposed to merely describing how you don't want it to be.

It would make it easier to understand where you stand.

Blowin the way I see it, you have to identify what is not up to scratch with the current situation so you can have a conversation about it and hopefully come up with a solution or compromise that people can live with - I don't see this as denigrating the present situation.
Although I have concerns about the direction in which Australia is heading politically/socially/economically, I enjoy day to day. There's some poo on my proverbial glasses but I'm ok with the amount, there are a lot of things I get immense pleasure and enjoyment from such as a surf yesterday and seeing the birds in the forest today.
I'm not going to write a thesis on my political views but I'll put down a few points.

Something closer to real democracy, free of "donations" and string pulling by media monopolies, mining lobbies, real estate lobbies etc.

Recognition and dignity for minorities including Indigenous, gay, disabled and to an extent, women.

Recognition for the necessity of a sustainable future, taking into account population, resource use etc.

Stopping the politicisation of issues like asylum seekers/indigenous

Non-partisanship of the Federal Police, Border Force etc.

Transparent government with regard to asylum seeker boat arrivals, offshore detention, donations received, pork barrelling etc.

Scaling back of a materially aspirational society i.e. recognising the relationship between humans and the natural environment. None of this should interfere with sustainable farming, forestry and fishing.

Supporting capitalism, technological advances etc. but avoiding monopolies/duopolies because that's when things start to get ugly.

Supporting a social democracy where there is universal healthcare and education.

I could go on but there's a start.
Needless to say, neither side of politics gets my tick of approval. The LNP especially goes against everything I've said above and I see this as extremely dangerous for every reason.

You've sidestepped my points a few times Blowin, put your cards on the table.

I totally agree with all of the above, but you'll have to explain what you mean by scaling back of a materially aspirational society...how would you propose this is accomplished ?

And who dictates an acceptable level of materialism ?

The "how" is the crucial part.

AndyM wrote:

You've sidestepped my points a few times Blowin, put your cards on the table.

Blowin wrote:

I totally agree with all of the above, but you'll have to explain what you mean by scaling back of a materially aspirational society...how would you propose this is accomplished ?

And who dictates an acceptable level of materialism ?

The "how" is the crucial part.

That's an interesting question isn't it. The concept of minimum wage or poverty line are commonly understood but there really is no concept of a maximum wage or an acceptable level of materialism. You would think in a system which has to be sustainable there would at least be acknowledgement of some kind of acceptable level of materialism ie one that above which the system is not sustainable.

Halt foreign ownership of real estate...all forms .

Limit population growth through restricted immigration .

Halt or extremely limit the use of imported labour in Australia .

Prioritise spending on Health, welfare , education.

Subsidise tertiary education.

Discontinue the privatisation of government functions - transport, ports, education, health and welfare.

Nationalised infrastructure spending that produces exportable products - Oil/ Gas , mining etc. Achieved through a commited and non politicised sovereign wealth fund that is accumulated as a result of an annual flat rate tax payable by every Australian citizen.

An Australian constitution guaranteeing freedom of access for individuals to natural resources eg fishing, hunting.

Complete transparency, limitation and curtailment of political donations / lobbying.

Political sphere should consist of - true democracy : continuous referendum style establishment of the desires of the Australian people. People often denigrate policies as being " populist " - isn't that the hallmark of democracy , to reflect the will of the majority ? Constitution / laws established through plebiscite .

Removal of the relevance of individual politicians from consideration - political parties should be faceless, though not unaccountable . Same as every other government department. Make people vote for policy, not projected personality. This could be achieved by a regularly scheduled release of each parties / independents stance on a range of issues displayed in a matrix format for the easy comparison / contrast with each other. Political sanctions as deterrence towards failure to follow the nature of the stated policies .

Dedicated sovereign partnerships with all approved foreign investment in Australia.

An opposition to the acceptance of free trade agreements particularly those containing an ISDS clause.

A focus on the unity of Australians - ie the sustenance of the common language .

Removal of dual citizenship options.

Tightening of tax loopholes for transnational companies . Limited deferral of tax obligations as a result of capital deduction.

Flat rate of tax commencing and ceasing at minimal and maximum earnings respectively for individuals.

Removal of state governments and bodies.

Foreign aid to be concentrated on directly neighbouring nationalities.

Increased antitrust legislation.

All the above is of course conditional on approval by the constant plebiscite process that I advocate.

How the tide of political corruption would be prevented from being spread from the individual power of the current politicians to the diluted, though accumulatory power of the plebiscite approach is beyond me.

Though you can guarantee that if there is political power it will be purchased by those with power , one way or another.

Australia should resist all efforts by non -representational ,transnational bodies to subvert the democratic prerogative of Its citizens as a primary concern .

Better give me a chance to digest what I've written before you start flaying me Andy, I just spat that all out, .

Fun isn't it Blowin?

Ummm, not really .

But it's passing the time at an extremely fun -challenged juncture of my time on this Earth.

A few quick comments before I try to get some work done.
I agree with pretty much all of what've you said.

Restricted immigration would be because of controlling population growth as opposed to ethnic basis.

Very mixed feelings on the focus of unity/language.
The rest of the world (apart from the U.S. but they don't count) can't believe we only speak one language. There are a lot of indigenous languages out there which need support, languages and cultures are dropping like flies because of language policies. Especially considering the rise of Asia, I see a need to redefine patriotism as seen through language - I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

So many other good points you've made.

But it comes back to the point, which political party in Australia is listening to ideas like these?

Blowin wrote:

Ummm, not really .

But it's passing the time at an extremely fun -challenged juncture of my time on this Earth.

Let's say stimulating.

AndyM wrote:

Blowin wrote:

Ummm, not really . But it's passing the time at an extremely fun -challenged juncture of my time on this Earth.

Let's say stimulating.

I thought it was good Blowin. Just been draining pints atop the jetty for the monthly pointscore. Lot of the world's problems were solved as the NE'er made a mess of proceedings. You would've fit (fat?) right in.

None.

That's why we need to shelve the idea of parties and commodify politics in a way that dispenses with the adversarial bullshit , self aggrandisement and dysfunctionally distracting Westminster system and conduct continuously reductive plebiscitary votes on any debatable or contested issue through a convenient digital voting method....if you or anyone else would care to invent it .

Fuck off the politicians....budgets in surplus in 5 minutes.

Retrospective removal of entitlements.

I'm looking at you Bronwyn Bishop you living , breathing drain on our society.

As an aside - Did you know that Bronwyn Bishop is 5'4" ?

I didn't realise you could pile shit that high.

stunet wrote:

AndyM wrote:

Blowin wrote:

Ummm, not really . But it's passing the time at an extremely fun -challenged juncture of my time on this Earth.

Let's say stimulating.

I thought it was good Blowin. Just been draining pints atop the jetty for the monthly pointscore. Lot of the world's problems were solved as the NE'er made a mess of proceedings. You would've fit (fat?) right in.

Fuck that sounds like a good time.

AndyM wrote:

A few quick comments before I try to get some work done.
I agree with pretty much all of what've you said.

Restricted immigration would be because of controlling population growth as opposed to ethnic basis.

Very mixed feelings on the focus of unity/language.
The rest of the world (apart from the U.S. but they don't count) can't believe we only speak one language. There are a lot of indigenous languages out there which need support, languages and cultures are dropping like flies because of language policies. Especially considering the rise of Asia, I see a need to redefine patriotism as seen through language - I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

So many other good points you've made.

But it comes back to the point, which political party in Australia is listening to ideas like these?

Mate, to be frank....Fuck the rest of the world.

A common language is the fundamental unifier of society.

It instills the necessary sense of belonging that is required to commit to those around you.

Thatcher was wrong.

Society exists - fucking ridiculous to assume otherwise - and society requires the cohesion and communal bond provided by the a common language.

Hehehe

Amazing song.

My second favourite , only beaten by " Do they know it's Christmas ?" which is basically the perfect song.

Though I could never understand the line - " There'll be no snow in Africa this Christmas time " ..... are they implying that it would snow, if only the Ethiopians weren't so poor ?

Well, when you're that poor, coke is out of the question.