What's what?

Just remember gents:

"It doesn't matter what your colour as long as you a true fella"!

TB, that's your explanation for using the term 'blacks'?! Mate, to quote Keithy George, "you're a fuckin' idiot."

Seeing as you're a wog, you won't mind me calling you a wog kunt, 'cos the wogs in WOGS OUT OF WORK used the term too. Actually I chucked in the kunt bit 'cos Sypo said it above in context and shit.

And it's anti-PC. Kunt is. I think wog is too? Dunno.

Remember, offence is always taken, not given. A bald Swedish animal-fucker said that recently regarding 18C or something. Or was it some wart-faced media toad laughing all the way to the bank?

Actually Sypo where did I offend you with whatever homophobic slurs you reckon I directed towards Blowie? Can you give me the example so I can wear it or is it just smear (oo-er!)?

Was it when I smoked him(!) and Nick3 (!!) out one time after some ridiculous bullshit they'd posted? Was it naked (!) or in 'context'?

"I like how the go-to position straight away for some is well, there's blacks and then there's really blacks. And money. Always money. Money to the blacks. Money. Money. Money."

Is that you, ID? Why?

And AndyM with ALL the shit that's been in the press of late, all the horror, fuck, even today, the stat is released/reported that young indigenous males have the #1 suicide rate in the whole world (GO GOLD AUSTRALIA! YEEEEW!), still the burning issue hot-off-the-presses is blacks that ain't black enough and the $$$ they're getting? OFF US! GODAMMIT!

Yep, been a burning question I've pondered lately. And yet it can be seen as so positive. More people un-ashamed to recognise their aboriginality! That's the ticket. I'm sure that's how the media can spin it. Have spun it.

Useful idiots.

Warning: That term may offend. Should offend.

Is that how you interpreted that conversation Turkey?

That I'm down on people who are indigenous/identify as indigenous because they aren't dark enough?

And that this is my issue to the exclusion of what I already know and understand, that Indigenous Australians are up there with the most maligned and ill-treated people in the world and have the mental trauma to show for it?

"I like how the go-to position straight away for some is well, there's blacks and then there's really blacks. And money. Always money. Money to the blacks. Money. Money. Money."

Is that you, ID? Why?

Was this bit for me? If it is.

No its not my view at all, if you read my post, I'm interested in looking at these things a little deeper and from angles and perspectives that maybe aren't so obvious at first not from a stock standard left or right view.

And as I've mentioned i don't like the word black to describe people or a race i don't even like the word white, though funny enough if you put fella on it, its softens it a little "blackfella" "whitefella"

To me your post is a typical far left post, putting others views down and insulting them to make yourself come across as the one on higher moral ground...only thing you left out is the bogan, bigot, racist or redneck call and used "useful idiots" instead.

TT, you have ignored the fact the Indigenous Council itself uses the term 'blacks' and 'whites' in what their role is. Are you suggesting they are idiots. Likewise for the All Blacks footy team. I doubt you would call them idiots.

For christ sake, stop the bullshit Barber your snide little comments are all about your objections to 18c.

Fact Barber: you would have been spitting teeth and blood quick smart if you called the Aboriginal men (and many of the women) I knew a black, but continue on with your innocent not me discussion boy.

you're cracking me up turkeyman, literally, not just lol, cos I don't 'lol', well not til just then, very funny

you didn't really offend me turkeyman, that is actually impossible it seems. but you really surprised me. you did question his sexuality at one heated point in your exchanges, I can't remember where exactly, there's been a few

it's the same with my floyd example, he just surprised me when he posted some t and a, and then a comment in a different thread, regarding how sexy he found a certain 'type' of woman. I actually agree with him and find this type of woman rather sexy too. it just seemed bit out of character, considering his enlightened views elsewhere, but hey we're allowed to be lewd and leering aren't we? we're men, or are we? I can't keep up some times

same with the dog, seemed out of character, no big deal, just nit picking

you do really get that stream of consciencenes thing flowing some times, with odd punctuation and word repeats, reminds me of someone, you sure you're not really uplift? or maybe his love child?

Deprived them of their liberties?

So many things to dislike...no, hate about that video, but I reserve my extra special loathing for the hands-crossed, soft emphahsis, head nodding faux sincerity of this fuckwit.

We've got a sovereign citizen - someone who objects to paying tax - in the senate and this knob who apologises to underprivileged millionaires as he objects to 18C while using 18C.

My head is spinning...

http://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/social-affairs/time-truth-and-reconcili...

I assume you guys will be able to see this stuff. Stan Grant, Wallace Wurth lecture at University of New South Wales. Listen and weep, and wonder why we might pay for the textbooks of a few privileged middle class people with indigenous background, and ask whether we are doing too much for them,

or not nearly enough.

I will second that. Thanks batfink. He needs to be in Paliamentt.

Would be a better Australia if someone with the integrity and intelligence of Stan Grant was elevated to a position which enabled him to have real influence on policy.

Absolutely Andy. He needs to be in Parliament as an independent or as the founder of his own party.

Yes, AndyM many such indigenous persons do put their hands up to go into a position where they may have direct input to policies for indigenous Australians. Maybe through the media Grant feels he can have more influence - don't know. He has his own show on Sky News. Same goes for many others. Noel Pearson is vocal as is Mundine. There are many, really.
Have a look at Pearsons speech re the media. Also a comment on Leaks cartoon.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/noel-pearson-speech-on-the-australi...

InSypo and Id, have a google of "strawman fallacy", ya typical far-left homophobes.

Actually while you're there, have a crack at "useful idiots". I'm sure AndyM, being a uni student and all, has had a bash. Maybe he knew already. Maybe you do. Who knew? Woohoo!

Tory Barber, you're beyond anything.

Man, how is that "bald Swedish animal-fucker"? That ridiculous little video, that sociopathically seeks to parody the Rudd Stolen Generations apology, fuck, I mean, I think I'd really like to meet that parasitic clown somewhere, and share my offended "feelings".

As for Stan Grant. Yep, Politics is calling. He knows it too. A good orator.

Here's another bloke's powerful speech. Seen this? Do yaself a favour. Hot tip: it ain't as long as Stan's.

http://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/2016/07/04/naidoc-2016-person-year-pr...

Pauline tackles the big issues:

You won't believe what the Government and ATO are doing now!

Just when you thought our PC brigade couldn't be any more backward, someone came up with an idea to put squat toilets into the new Australian Tax Office in Melbourne.

Why? Because over 20% of the ATO workforce in Melbourne come from NON ENGLISH SPEAKING BACKGROUNDS.

The question I pose is if they can't work out how to use a westernised toilet, how are they expected to work out our tax system and give advice to ordinary Australians?

Please explain?

Good point.

For the record though, I love squats. I find them so, shall we say.... liberating:)

I do too, nothing like a quick bowel-cleansing evacuation. But then I also like to take my time on a dunny. You know, sit and think about my tax return, and if I do that on a squat my hammies get sore. I'm utterly torn on the issue.

I hope Pauline can help.

Politics of the S-bend; we will see a lot of this over the next term of government given the lunatic fringe now elected ...... and here I was thinking we couldn't get any worse than that old white angry fucktard Abetz.

Reckon Pauline gives 9/10ths of Australians an MBE* everytime she opens her orifice.

* Massive Bowl Evacuation.

Barber ... whats with the paid subscription to The Australian? Seriously who does that unless you are a white man of privilege with a plum up your arse.

Turkey and Floyd, have you got your head around groupthink yet?

Have you, U.I.?

Here's a little party-game. Check this roll-call.

Fuck sake. Google "New Matilda" and "Which Conservatives Are Trolling And Which Are For Real"

Now all you characters on here, who agree with any/all of the views put forward by any/all of these people, yep, I'm looking at you Id, Tory Barber, (not so) Zen, Blowie, InSypo (you old anti-PC warrior) etc etc, well, the game is to match these 'right'warriors with what you think is a match on the 'left'. The worse vs the worse. Or best vs the rest (if you're that way inclined). Garn, have a go!

I contend that in the 'pub test' stakes, there is no match. In fact, there is no match, anywhere, period. These right freaks - David Leyonhjelm, Eric Abetz, Cory Bernardi, Pauline Hanson, Nick Folkes, Malcolm Roberts, and my fave (and baited hook) Joe Hildebrand - have no leftist peers.

Garn, have a go, comrades! Do your best/worst. Aussie, Aussie, Aussie.

Deary gracious me.

Ok TT what cause, whose goals I am not fully aware of, am I a propagandist for?

"Useful idiot". A term used and abused in the past as a pejorative about the 'left', and 'left' intellectuals in particular. And predicated on bullshit. Lenin? Yeah, right.

I thought I'd turn it round. Give it a spin.

So in the horror week that Grant eloquently and civilly describes as such in his featured speech, and in which a few noble commenters here discussed in empathetic and reasonable and progressive terms, ID had his own ideas. Impeccable timing? Insensitive? Totally unaware?

It struck me to enquire.

"I like how the go-to position straight away for some is well, there's blacks and then there's really blacks. And money. Always money. Money to the blacks. Money. Money. Money."

Is that you, ID? Why?"

His response:

"No its not my view at all, if you read my post, I'm interested in looking at these things a little deeper and from angles and perspectives that maybe aren't so obvious at first not from a stock standard left or right view."

NOW? Right now?

Then there was you, AndyM. With the anecdote. The query. The positive outlook.

Then me.

"And AndyM with ALL the shit that's been in the press of late, all the horror, fuck, even today, the stat is released/reported that young indigenous males have the #1 suicide rate in the whole world (GO GOLD AUSTRALIA! YEEEEW!), still the burning issue hot-off-the-presses is blacks that ain't black enough and the $$$ they're getting? OFF US! GODAMMIT!

Yep, been a burning question I've pondered lately. And yet it can be seen as so positive. More people un-ashamed to recognise their aboriginality! That's the ticket. I'm sure that's how the media can spin it. Have spun it."

Bolt and 18C. The IPA and 18C. And now, the right-wing trolls I've alluded to above. AGAIN. Those with their hands on all sorts of levers of power. The 18C clan.

Maybe "useful idiot" is a tad harsh. What about delusional contrarian? I'm not laying that at your door AndyM. I'm thinking of that "useful idiot" Christopher Hitchens. Maybe even our very own bog-standard Aussie knock-off, Helen Razer.

Edgy. Dissident. Used.

Man, as for "groupthink", that old shit has been used and abused beyond all recognition, surely?

Irving Janis would be ropeable if he still walked amongst us. Funny, I vaguely remember criticism about the concept years ago. YEARS!

His own definition (circa 1982): "Groupthink refers to a deterioration of mental efficiency, reality
testing, and moral judgment that results from in-group pressures."

To borrow and paraphrase another (invented) quote from Lenin, I think old Janis "has hung the theory with the rope he's sold us."

Here's a term: Disconfirmation. A difference between a perceived outcome, usually a collection of events or activities, as compared to an established expectation. The scientific method. An open mind.

If you consider it critical to address examination of anything, in Janis' case group decision processes, with an open mind, then Janis has failed from the get-go with that 'definition'. It is a 'definition' that invites the search for CONFIRMING evidence.

DISCONFIRMATION is the stuff of science.

There are real dangers in research that is 'theory-confirming', rather than 'theory-testing', especially when the researcher holds a strong prior belief about the outcome. The danger of invalidity.

And that's just for starters!

Had Janis succumbed to a sort of 'groupthink' himself before he even got going?

Ha ha. All a bit academic for an otherwise lackadaisical arvo, hey? I feel a beer comin' on.

AndyM, perhaps you were/are the EGO to ID's ID! Maybe his SUPEREGO?! There! Sorted! Freud rides again!

Burp.

I still think groupthink, however old the concept may be, is still valid.

Not sure about Janis' definition, I'm going by the one I posted a while back.

I see a shitload of it in northern NSW, where "dissent" on certain topics is completely socially unacceptable. Bring up an idea slightly off track and be prepared to have a whole lot of people scowling at you at best, or more likely swearing at you, calling you names.

Sure, if one wants to be a prick, one pays the consequences.

But if you bring up reasonable questions and you're pilloried, well, that's not so good.
Even somewhat silly questions asked in good faith should be entertained, no?

My head is hurting after trying to understand disconfirmation.

l was just warming to you turkeyman, then you go on this half pissy brush tarring groupthink rant.

just because I admire someone's audacity to challenge the conventional thinking doesn't mean I agree with them. but you appear to love these little sterotyping generalising passive agressive 'if you're not with us you're against us' rants. I think I've heard that sentiment from someone else. prerty sure he wasn't the sharpest tool in the war chest, each to their own I guess

I'll post this again because you seem to have missed it or at least misread it the first time

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/why-this-radical-activist-is-disillu...

This pretty much sums up the climate change 'debate'.

re. Stan grant, I saw a pretty in depth interview with him, with some pressured questioning about him joining a political party. his response was he really wasn't sure which team he belongs on.

speaknig of commenters on here, I can relate to that

re. noel pearson, he said you can only do so much from outside the tent. hopefully stan can find a place he's comfortable somewhere, independent may be the only option, all the best ones are independent, too much groupthink elsewhere

also re. the kids in detention thing pretty sure they weren't all indigenous, but they're getting the attention because they're the vast majority in the NT, fair enough. so these 'methods' are used on all kids in detention.

if I can play devil's advocate for a minute, these 'methods' have no doubt developed because we can no longer use corporal punishment, and I dare say to avoid restraining minors which begs the question what would be an appropriate measure of force to control a situation with minors?

more importantly, I'd love someone to have a go at my previous question . ie. if we are to avoid locking up indigenous people, what are the alternatives? when all other avenues have been explored.

a really difficult situation, and as I pointed out, the arrakun elders wanted the police to just do their job. I wonder, like really really wonder what the elders think that entails?

That link was an interesting read Sypkan.

Talking turkey, I'm surprised that 'cognitive dissonance' didn't get a run in that drunken diatribe. One of my favourite phrases, the right wing is replete with it.

I'm quite the fan of Helen Razer though. She has a sharp mind and a sharper tongue. Goes after some issues I couldn't give a fig about, but on political economy she is clearer thinking and more pointed in her arguments than just about any economist I've read, and she is playing the role of the angry dissident, which unfortunately, is a necessary ingredient in the overthrow of neoliberal economic buffoonery.

Sypkan, re your question, I'd just not lock them up, personally. Perhaps provide some other non-custodial social services so that they don't end up there perhaps. Interesting you bring that up as only the other night the case was brought up of an indigenous woman locked up in Maitland (I think?) who was yet another death in custody, and again police were negligent in notifying the people they were obliged to notify, by law.

How many white people get locked up for intoxication? Seriously! Yeah, I know, just the other night your mate was blah blah blah. White disadvantage, indigenous disadavantage, guess which is worse.

So Batfink are you suggesting indigenous people be treated differently to others in regard to the law and sentencing?

Heres a great idea, how about we treat people the same no matter race, this would include the law and sentencing and treat people based on need not race.

I kind of thought the Left would agree with this?...but the world is getting pretty strange these days.

As for TT, you are not worth a proper reply, you obvious don't read my post properly and just have blinkers on.

"Heres a great idea, how about we treat people the same no matter race, this would include the law and sentencing and treat people based on need not race."

On the money ID. As for the left I am slowly learning they like to change their ideals to suit what ever agenda they are shovelling at the time without any real regard for the people or issues they speak of really are a pack of watered down communists. Those who make the most sense aren't birds they have no wings left or right.

Back on topic the living standards of many indigenous people in Australia isn't what it should be.The treatment of Aboriginals since colonialism is our national shame.
We like to embrace our high achieving aboriginals but Australia still cringes when they try and identify with their culture and people Cathy Freemen with the Aboriginal flag or good old Adam Goodes are perfect examples.

To treat everyone the same there needs to be an even playing field for all society from my observation free money, houses and cars etc doesn't always work.

Education, meaningful job opportunities and quality healthy social activities is what is required and thats not just for our indigenous folk but all people.

I seriously question the comments on these forums about so-called mates e.g. "my Aboriginal mates" or "my muslim mates". These "mates" comments are used in an attempt to disprove arguments like affirmative action to counter Aboriginal disadvantage or to justify our horrific treatment of refugees in so-called off-shore detention centres.

Do these mates exist? I very much doubt it. Is it a legitimate form of argument to present an example of some spurious third party's views (i.e. one view or incident) to disprove what is the consensus view broadly held view in the community? Most certainly not.

You also see this approach very commonly used in the climate change debate. 97% of the world's climate change scientists say its man made but you get some yokel claiming based on his/her experience (one person / incident) is all bullshit. Right, one example disproves the lot.

Stop the pretence here, many of you here have alternative thinly veiled motives like Barber and his dislike of the HRC, Triggs and 18c. From reading many recent comments and remembering back to the Adam Goodes topic I suspect many of you have darker agendas.

"Heres a great idea, how about we treat people the same no matter race, this would include the law and sentencing and treat people based on need not race."

I tried to answer this a while back with an example of how invisible cultural templates (or the lack thereof) guide our wellbeing. The point was that there's been a fundamental erosion of the Indegenuous family unit and that it's extremely hard, in fact nigh on impossible, for one generation to just "snap out of it". White Australians had a great many advantages to get us to the position we're in now, no-one got here out simply by their own hard work and I wouldn't listen to anyone who uses that self-serving argument. Therefore Indigenouos folk now need a leg up.

This, I believe, is where many commentators fall down, they're oblivious to culture, to power dynamics, and they're especially blind to white privilege.

It's a particularly fraught area, highly contentious, not least 'cos appearing to favour one cohort sets the rabid dogs barking - nothing like the power of downwards envy to fire up the Andrew Bolt comment thread - but also the risk, as Noel Pearson argues, of establishing learned helplessness. Spend time in Aboriginal communities and see that humbugging is real. Too much humbug, sing it loud.

Regardless, we wont get there from here, something's gotta be done....unless, that is, you secretly want to keep the Indigenous folk down.

I think learning about indigenous culture and the ways of the blackfella should be taught from kindergarten hand in hand with respect for women and people from other countries. It should be a constant right up till the end of school and not some token class that was 'personal development' taught in the early teens then moved on from that. I had a particularly enlightened teacher many years ago who took great pleasure in telling the Dreamtime stories and I remember, as a class of wasps, how rapt we all were in listening to them.

Also, I don't believe we should sugar-coat history but I take issue when people brand the settling of Australia as a white invasion. I think that sort of talk is divisive and does nothing to further the cause of anybody. It was a long time ago, the world back then as it is now wasn't a static place, people were searching for new lands, new opprtunities, had they known what the future would hold at the time, who knows?

Absolutely spot on stunet. Ignorance of history and of contemporary struggles is absolutely rife, as well as an often deliberate misunderstanding to better suit people's unshakeable beliefs.

Down in Tassie there is so much wilful ignorance that it drives me insane. A year or so ago I raised the issue that there are several families in Tasmania that are incredibly wealthy and that all their contemporary wealth began once they were given stolen lands as rewards for murdering indigenous Tasmanians. You can see it just doesn't make sense to some people - they think we are all born equal, that you make your own lot in life. They can't see the enormous privilege some of us are born into, and the generations of disadvantage and trauma that others are.

Example: A family last year put a large parcel of land on the East Coast up for sale for $2 million +. That was once Aboriginal land, and it was taken by force. The ancestors of the people selling the land, some 170 years ago, were given the land by the colonial government as a reward for capturing bushrangers and for randomly killing Tasmanian aborigines. The people selling the land will become contemporary millionaires thanks to the not-so-distant murder and theft of land.

Another: There is an absolute pig of a bloke in the North who drives around in a Porsche, and comes from pastoral family. Their pastures became theirs only after they were stolen from indigenous Tasmanians, a property portfolio now worth millions of dollars. He was born into an enormous wealth, more than 4000 acres of prime agricultural land, that once belonged to somebody else and became his through murder and theft and government policy. I can't imagine what it is like for today's indigenous Tasmanians to see him drive down the street, his name and photo pop up in the paper acting like the king of the island, to see his kids trot off to private schools and know that his wealth only became possible because his ancestors killed your ancestors and took land that would have been become yours.

Frustrated yet, Stunts? Isn't this where Shatner concurred and added his (unread) articles? Fark, I even chucked in my two cents worth along these lines too. Maybe too blunt. Not blunt enough?

It's a kunt of a sport.

I'm not able to link stuff so google "Chris Sarra." Check him out and what he's got to offer. Listening and reading is good. Doing after listening and reading and taking on board what was written and said is good. It's necessary!

Bugger it, I'm not here to spoon-feed, but connecting-the-dots doesn't seem to work either. Penny ain't dropping.

"Cognitive Dissonance". Is that like "schizophrenia"? I'll have to consult Wikipedia. Chuck in "groupthink" and "political correctness" too.

InSypo reads my "rant" as being alcohol-fuelled ('cos I mention knocking off at the end of it for some beer o'clock? Speed skimming is a bugger, InSypo...ask Doggo), and Batfink runs with it! Is that "groupthink"?

Maybe I just write in a drunken-stylee? Like Behan ( I wish)? Though he never wrote drunk. I think.

Play the Keyboard Drunk Like a Percussion Instrument Until the Fingers Begin to Bleed a Bit...

Amasing!

Burp!

(Gord! Bloody roobois s'posed to help , ekse)

Agree that where possible find out first hand what the issues are as Pearson suggested. It seems that we have many different experiences from the wide diverse spread of the indigenous peoples we have here. It seems that, if possible, that a single body or group could represent the blacks. It's positive that we have an indigenous council to advise the government. Let's hope there is general consensus within the Council.

"Spend time imagining the whole, horrific story. Not the pathetic 'history', which is a conniving, gross, dumb pack of lies, but the whole sordid, sickening truth. Go there, as deep as possible. If you can't be fucked, its nothing new. 'Advance Australia fair'. Imagine if that was actually true." - Hunt (I'm guessing not Greg)

"A lot of the attitudes that have been expressed here are not really helpful. The issue is not about white guilt. It is about trying to accept indigenous culture and integrate it into the wider culture; about addressing the gaps in life expectancy, health, education and opportunity. It is about changing the racist assumptions that have become so deeply ingrained in our society that they are often instinctive. If you are not fully on board with that be careful what you say. You might get away with it amongst your mates but there are a lot of people who just won't listen to that kind of shit anymore without calling it out for what it is. Crypto racist crap." - Blindboy.

InSypo, apart from now being a drunken homophobe (according to you), I also think Bailey Lamon is a prime "useful idiot". Love the comments after that article in The Independent (!). Yew!

"So Batfink are you suggesting indigenous people be treated differently to others in regard to the law and sentencing?"

Actually, I'd like indigenous people to be treated equally before the law. Do you think they are now?

I acknowledge Stu's response above, which is very important, but can be hard to understand and a slippery idea. Think of it this way, disadvantage tends to be hard to climb out of, even over generations, and advantage always appears as though you made it on your own. Every farking millionaire thinks of themselves as self-made men, completely oblivious to all the advantage and luck that came their way. This is the right wing mentality, that everything good came their way because of hard work, and they all climbed out of the gutter etc etc. Even Malcolm Turnbull tried to make out he was the product of difficult circumstances, the eastern suburbs private school boy really did it tough. The corollary of this mentality is the real poison though, that anyone who hasn't 'made it' must be lazy and dumb and immoral. That is the heart of the neoliberal world.

But back to equality before the law. Let's take these figures. Indigenous are roughly 2% of the population, higher in the NT, and apparently 25% of the prison population in NT. Does that sound like equality? Over all of Australia, indigenous over represented in prison by a factor of two or three or 4 compared to population levels. I'm not going to check current figures, really, I don't have to to make the point. They have been the same all of my life, I doubt that has changed in the last few years.

Deaths in custody, non-indigenous - bugger all, indigenous - a huge majority of deaths in custody is an indigenous person.

Arrested and locked up for intoxication - Indigenous probably make up half or more, I'm betting much higher, but you really don't need to get the figures, you know and I know that an indigenous drunk is not treated the same as a non-indigenous drunk.

Rich white privileged males who steal vast amounts of money through Financial Planning, Fraud, Insider Trading, scams etc - number in prison - about 1 in every thousand that does the crime.

Equality before the law? Is that really the hook you want to hang your hat on?

well there's a lot of burping in your posting turkeyman, as I said I was warming to you, like a clucky lesbian warming to a turkey baster, then sometimes you're more like the cold clammy hands of a creepy gynecologist. you're a bit ' all or nothing', 'with us or against us'. the purpose here is debate to find a better way, because you know...shit ain't working that well, and your team has had a good go

I'm encouraged by the diversity of opinions, now zen has moved in with some good words, I know you'll find most of it abhorrent, but for the not so one eyed it all seems fair play and a good example of impressions and improvements that can be made on individuals

even indo d's little equal equality for all spiel sounds reasonable

Heres a great idea, how about we treat people the same no matter race, this would include the law and sentencing and treat people based on need not race.

though I'd agree with batfink, the cops could target a few drunken white folk to even stuff up a bit. I really cannot believe the cops could be so negligent to not monitor the indigenous woman, but I guess there's some real pigs in the force.

but I wasn't really talking about petty crime and drunkenness batfink. I meant examples like arrakun where small groups are intimidating a community, and basically having free reign and huge influence through violent means, what to do in these situations?

By the way, while I am definitely not of the right in political and economic terms, the left can as often be a simpering bunch of imbeciles and chattering idiots, so I do not consider myself of the left, although you will read my comments and assume that to be so.

The 'chattering classes' of the left are a particularly egregious group of nincompoops.

I'm not sure that the political terms 'left' and 'right' are of any use these days anyway. And the idea that someone can be a liberal conservative is cognitive dissonance writ large.

But feel free to put me in whatever box makes you feel comfortable.

Funny you mention that, BFG, "liberal conservative". From afar, I remember when I first heard Krudd come out with his "I'm a Fiscal Conservative" line. That really got my alarm bells ringing. Then again, it was anyone but lil Winston AGAIN!

I dunno why people like say, Bailey Lamon label themselves with anything. Oh yes, I do. She's a young 'un. You do stuff like that. A young "useful idiot". I don't think she'll self-label that.

InSypo, this above comment obviously makes me an "ageist" too, comrade. Actually, you're creeping me out with that weird sexualised stuff. Please make it stop. ENOUGH!

And "my team"?! Huh? St Mirren? Liverpool? THE CROWS??

As for the "chattering classes", with the make-up of our current government, upper and lower houses, they're the least of any worries.

Yes, those kind of chattering bourgeois nincompoops annoy me too. But then I'm not in Don Dale (and never will be...I'm too erm, old).

I don't think those kind of nincompoops would be the main concern of the kids in there either.

You people do understand that if you treat people equally and on a need basis and forget race, those indigenous people in need don't miss out...it includes ingenious people but it also includes anyone else in need no matter their skin colour or race.

But you know who misses out and doesn't get funding.

People who don't need it like me and you, and every other Indigenous person that doesn't need help like Buddy Franklin to my mate who earns twice as much as me but his great great grandmother is ingenious and he can identify as Aboriginal.

In regard to communities its no different, majority indigenous communities wouldn't miss out because they need the funding and help.

the tangled web keeps on getting spun ........