What's what?

LOL!

I was looking for a vid for freeride being inundated with Audis and came across this:

Competing ?

Weren’t you afraid of upsetting someone emotionally ?

You ain’t seen nothing yet when it comes to limitations on fishing Freeride. I’ll be surprised if fishing is open to the public beyond a form of ballot draw for licenses . And exclusive access to the high net worth individual, of course.

Forsake your birthright just like the blackfellas.

And BB will be nodding his head saying “ fishing is a selfish pursuit , think of the common good “.

Oh it'll be banned no doubt.

we'll all be on vegan diets eating imported soy burgers because that is better for the environment.
I read it in the Guardian , must be true.

The sensitive new age blindboy always ended at the high tide mark. I was brought up on the put up or shut up/go hard or go in ethic. Still got the scars to prove it ........ not to mention a few who will always consider me amongst the unforgiven.

"Australia in the period 75-95 was as good as life has ever been for anyone in the history of the world.

Subject to personal decisions of course."

Yep again.

"Quieter , cheaper , simpler . Less bullshit. Less people . More pristine . Less rules . Easier.

Better."

I remember when I was younger realising that access to nature and privacy were going to be the exclusive preserve of the rich.

I just didn’t realise we’d get so far down that road so quickly.

Not in Australia, anyway.

That access is what we are really selling when we are selling tertiary education with attached citizenships.

Oh and Blowin you seem to have the idea that your nearest and dearest are entitled to represent the interests and experiences of whatever group they happen to belong to so sorry but your gay brother does not speak for all gay men and your wife does not speak for all women. I mean I am a surfer. Do I represent the views and experiences of all surfers. Of course not.

Yet you as a heterosexual male just spoke for all gay men AND all women.

Impressive.

Blindboy, I'm not sure what you see as undemocratic about citizens expressing a wish to reduce the immigration rate.

No , that’s populism.

Democracy is the political duopoly maintaining a collusion to not address the wishes of the voting public. Because they’re smarter than the average man in the street.

Yep , that’s right. Scott Morrison and Bill Shorten are the smartest people in Australia. They’ve decided what’s best for us and we don’t get a say in it.

And if you don’t like their colluding tactics well you can vote the encumbent out.

Of course he’ll be replaced by a fella with the exact same policies , but......too bad Australia.

"Living in the past, with profoundly undemocratic views is really bad for your health. Including your mental health."
"There comes a point where you really are best to go with the flow. "
"Until then maybe go visit some places that have suffered from under-development ........ and then complain."
"Australian exceptionalism is just a slightly less toxic version of the US strain ........ middle class expectations, nostalgia for a world that never was and an abdication of any sense of a common global humanity. "Disappointed that you haven't got a Trump wannabe to vote for? Ha ha"

You're plumbing some new depths BB.
The post these quotes came from is a massive pile of poo.

Illogical, defeatist and bitter.

Would be nice if BB answered that question himself.

Not true Blowin. I made a comment comparing the situation they faced in the 70s to the situation now. If you think that they are in any way comparable there is a vast amount of well documented history to prove you wrong.
Freeride, nothing wrong with expressing an opinion or voting on a single issue but if your idea of democracy is government by opinion poll, then we are likely to disagree about a few things. Regardless of what is stated publicly every functioning democracy functions by electing leaders who then have a certain amount of freedom to make decisions which might not be supported by a majority but which they consider to be in the national interest. As Blowin has noted ad infinitum, both major parties have a long record of supporting immigration. To suggest that the government should totally reverse this policy on the basis of a short term swing in opinion is undemocratic since it would require them to act against the national interest as they perceive it. We elect leaders, not opinion poll sheep, that is democracy in the real world. Reality in this case is that both parties have a finger to the wind and so immigration will almost certainly be reduced for a while ........ but while that may slow population growth it will not prevent it continuing at a significant rate.

I seem surprisingly cheerful for someone so bitter and twisted Andy. Touched a nerve did it?

So a woman can’t speak for the experiences of women , but statistics can ?

You’re inviolable and undeserved love affair with statistics never ceases to amaze me, BB.

Barking up the wrong tree again Blowin. Your capacity for self-deception continues to amaze me. Sorry digger me old mate but the reported experience of one anonymous woman, as reliably or not, reported by her spouse on the Internet, does not discredit four decades of feminist history supported in enormous detail with statistics on matters such as equal wages and opportunities, access to abortion, access to women's refuges, polical representation. I mean really, try not be so fucking deliberately ignorant.

Touched a nerve? Not really.

But honestly, you seem to have a deep-seated loathing for this country - you don't seem cheerful.

"Undemocratic
Go with the flow
Australian exceptionalism"

Do you like this country?

Haha. Hands up who's on the piss, indeed?

"White flight is when people who didn’t grow up in high density crush zones with a high proportion of foreign culture move to an area where they are surrounded by a culture they are comfortable with. You know , that’s why people move to a whitebread town like Margaret River, to be amongst a familiar culture."

"Australia in the period 75-95 was as good as life has ever been for anyone in the history of the world."

Hey Sheepdog, still got that "well, that's the stupidest thing I've read all day" meme at hand?

Fark! I s'pose thanks are in order for the laughs, Blowie.

Seriously. I'm still chuckling.

Cheers.

As a broad generalisation Andy, of course. I just don't go with the godzone thing. When I look around I see lots of other countries that have their own attractions. And yes I am absolutely serious about Australia having caught a weakened strain of the "love it or leave it virus". I mean, a country, if is badly educated enough, can become beyond criticism by its own people, but since they have failed in their democratic duty to judge their country fairly and accurately, the international community will be less understanding. As for my mental state, this place gets quite depressing, so I probably come over the same way.

And what's with the 'crush-load' term?

Lemme take a wild stab here.

Propaganda from the usual suspects?

Hahahaha. Google says yes!

Quadrant, Macro Business, and wait for it...One Nation!!!!

You could not make this shit up. Well, you can and they do.

Mental.

BB I'm not a fan of jingoism and all that shit either.

I just see people waking up to the fact that this physical country is fragile and is also being bulldozed at a rate of knots.

People want to change this and you're calling it undemocratic.

Part of this change is slowing down unprecedented rates of immigration and you're pretty quick to call this racist, or at least a case of Australia not being a good international citizen.

People want to look after this country and you seem to go out of your way to brush off every argument and sneer at every angle offered.

And you call yourself progressive - I don't really get it.

Just like you blowin, the average citizen probably does want less population growth, I know I do. But the average citizen also demands an ever increasing standard of goods and services without paying extra tax for it and will ditch any govt coming between them and their next pointless consumerist purchase. That might not be you it seems and if your prepared to accept less is more then congratulations we have lots in common, I'll pull out the paper plates when you come to dinner, I hate washing anyhow.....but many disagree on this future.. So how does a small Australia grow in wealth with a stagnant tax base all looking to retire early and travel/surf the country betting on easy stock market gains from the comfort of their campchair whinging about paying fair tax on windfalls falling in their lap. You can see that surely. if you eat the cake then don't complain when it's gone.... you might have some answers to our country's future it sounds but remember everyone wants a slice of what many well timed retirees are enjoying or about to enjoy. Reduced immigration for a while perhaps indeed but don't hope for a smaller Aus.

There were certainly good and bad aspects of the seventies. Indigenous folks and gay people copped heaps of opprobrium. Cigarettes were relentlessly smoked in confined offices, pubs and restaurants and there was little or no access to good organic and biodynamic produce. Queensland in particular was riddled with vice and corruption and overseas travel was bloody expensive. But all in all, it was nevertheless still a halcyon time to be young, laid back, surfing and exposed to great music. There was a difficult to articulate "anything's possible" sweetness in the air, more laughter and sense of belonging. There was also still an old world larrikin decency and lightness of being that we will never have again; those who lived through that epoch know exactly what I mean.

As it stands, we move with the times - fraught, overpopulated and run by gutless, vision-less agenda driven growth junkies with snouts in the trough and absolutely no connection to the natural world. So what remains of Gondwana will continue to morph into clogged Ponziland unabated.

Grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change and the strength to change the things we can.

Personally i think having more people ,more immigration so as to get more workers to pay more tax to get better services etc is a fucking hoax....more people equals more traffic,longer waiting times in hospitals over crowding schools etc.Ends up a vicious circle which is what it has become now.You only have to think back 20 years ago to see how good it was...... then compare it to now .

In the 70's and 80's I was dead set against immigration............of all the tossers that came from over east to the SW and NW and didn't go home.

"Personally i think having more people ,more immigration so as to get more workers to pay more tax to get better services etc is a fucking hoax....more people equals more traffic,longer waiting times in hospitals over crowding schools etc.Ends up a vicious circle which is what it has become now.You only have to think back 20 years ago to see how good it was...... then compare it to now ."

That's because it is a hoax.

I've never been anti- immigration but the bullshit we were sold just hasn't delivered.

Quite often you can't even see a GP when you're actually sick, naybe in a day or two. That never EVER happened before.

Waiting list for hospitals have become ridiculous, specialists are like an oasis in the desert, slipping away in the distance.

Queuing for everything!! including roundabouts where you've never seen a line up of cars before. Paying for carparks that were once free. Returning to find once free carpark is now $10 not $4. Then even $10 ain't enough, because it doesnt matter how much you're willing to pay, you can't even find a park!

Competition for everything is just stressful, seen everywhere in mental health issues, which kind of defeats the point

And that's because of immigration, hey Sypkan? Nothing to do with neo-liberal economic dogma like privatisation, de-regulation, under-funding and undermining public services, selling off the State etc etc. All done with enthusiasm and religious zeal by you know who.

Use your loaf before you lose it completely.

I Focus, I hear ya. As I said before I was part of the problem!

Go back to where ya came from! Be it Cronulla, Newcastle, South Coast SA, or Fremantle.

(Just covering some of my mate's bases that have now been here 20+ years)

(Actually, I forgot Queenslanders. They can really piss off back!)

Andy most of our environmental problems have little or nothing to do with population growth and everything to do with greed, wilful ignorance and poor governance. It is not immigration that is stuffing up the Darling, it is not immigration causing excessive land clearing. In both those cases it is poor regulation and a lack of enforcement of the regulations we do have. I think where my views differ from most is that I believe Australia has a much greater carrying capacity in terms of population. I have no problem with immigration being reduced. It is a near certainty in the short term. My main issue is with the media generated blindness to the real causes of our problems. It is very convenient for those doing well under the current poor governance to blame immigration.

"Nothing to do with neo-liberal economic dogma like privatisation, de-regulation, under-funding and undermining public services, selling off the State etc etc. All done with enthusiasm and religious zeal by you know who.

Use your loaf before you lose it completely."

It ain't that simple factobum, not least because labor were in on most of that privatisation racket.

Use your loaf wise one, you're not winning again. Your bias and blind faith is astounding.

"Nothing to do with neo-liberal economic dogma like privatisation, de-regulation, under-funding and undermining public services, selling off the State etc etc. All done with enthusiasm and religious zeal by you know who.

Use your loaf before you lose it completely."

It ain't that simple factobum, not least because labor were in on most of that privatisation racket.

Use your loaf wise one, you're not winning again. Your bias and blind faith is astounding.

Yeah, yeah Seppo, got it the first time.

That's why I chucked in 'enthusiam and religious zeal', oh dumb one. And the glorious Libs are still true believers all the way. It's all they've got. Oh, and fear. And after losing on the floor yesterday, we're gonna get fear cranked up to 11. Strap yourself in. That's not a knife!

So, are we gonna have to go through the history of neo-liberalism/economic rationalism (remember that quaint term?) AGAIN? Thatcher/ Reagan/Australia under Labor's response/ Howard off the chain/ the third way the second time/ the turning.

Again?

Looks like we need a refresher course...again? Really?

Stay tuned.

As your guilty crush says, "We’re going to win so much, you’re going to be so sick and tired of winning, you’re going to come to me and go, ‘Please, please, we can’t win any more.’”

"That's why I chucked in 'enthusiam and religious zeal', oh dumb one. And they're still true believers all the way. It's all they've got."

So were you including the labor stooges when you wrote that?

Nah of course not....

"As your guilty crush says, "We’re going to win so much, you’re going to be so sick and tired of winning, you’re going to come to me and go, ‘Please, please, we can’t win any more.’”"

Well, the way some of you carry on about trump you must really really be sick of him winning by now. Because despite the whole political apparatus working against him, he has done some seriius winning! As evidenced by the constant whining from his detractors.

For those of us that are indifferent to trump, it's a ...yeh yeh whatever..., but I've got to admit, I'm a bit sick of him winning too. He really has overdone it, way past my expectations.

Which just goes to show how dismal a state the left of politics was in. Also way past my expectations.

When you can't even get traction against a lying cheating billionaire buffoon, you know you've got some issues, serious issues.

Actually...IF...

"It ain't that simple factobum, not least because labor were in on most of that privatisation racket..."

Why's it NOT that simple to sheet everything home to 'immigration' then?

"My main issue is with the media generated blindness to the real causes of our problems. It is very convenient for those doing well under the current poor governance to blame immigration."

And rev up and rally the ones who aren't, and the ones who feel they aren't, doing well.

Facto present company excepted of course...........not sure about Blowin coming and going ............nah just joking.

Regardless of arguments about immigration numbers, who, where etc running 547 visa's before training kids is criminal I think

Plenty of traction sypkan. Winning? Yeh and black is white and up is down. North Korea - no change in policy still building nukes and rockets. Middle East, has blustered about all sorts of things, reality is that policy is unchanged. Afghanistan, could possibly withdraw and leave it to the Taliban ........ but probably not. No change. Domestic economy, has ridden a mini-boom generated by Obama era policies, but still a low wage economy with large pockets of 3rd world conditions. Other indicators? Least popular President ever isn't it? Already pathetic health care system further undermined, environmental regulations weakened to the point of non-existence. Full steam ahead on greenhouse emissions. Try talking about the real world instead of your persistent fantasy.

The partisan finger pointing RE neo-liberalism really misses the point. I've said it before, and here I go again...if one party follows the neo-lib route the other party HAS to trail them. If they don't it's electoral suicide, and it all comes down to the bottom line, which is this: which party is perceived as the best economic manager?

An example...

One party - let's call them the Liberals for instance - get kudos for gutting aged care, mental health, vocational training, and universities, selling private assets, cutting corporate taxes, etc etc etc...the whole neo-liberal box and dice, and when they add up the sums they have a surplus! Hurrah! That final sum is all that matters, not how it was achieved.

So what's the other party to do? To continue down the road of state supplied health and education, welfare, retaining and maintaining state-owned assets, is to register a balance sheet that, in the binary grasp of economics, makes for an electoral liability.

Cue the Labor economic mismanagent rubbish. You can even read it on here.

Unlike Blowin, I don't agree that Labor subscribe to neo-lib values, yet in the face of political expediency they must pursue them, however reluctantly. 

Then again, like Blowin, I think that maybe the only way to derail the neo-lib train is a show of support for someone else. Something that sends a message to both parties, but mainly the bloodsuckers in the Libs, that the constituency wants something more humane than what thirty years of neo-liberalism has delivered.

I don't think I do ...."sheet everything home to 'immigration'.

Blowin might, but - I hate to break it to you - he usually has a good point. Like referring to Chinese grandmothers when questioning the family reunification policies, and the costs / supposed economic benefits of such immigration - when a very large, very very large in fact!! Thats a very large proportion, of that immigration is Chinese!

Blindboy (sorry) reckons anti immigration sentiment is relatively recent. He also thinks there's a recent 'intellectual' push back on political correctness.

News Flash! This shit ain't recent, this shit ain't new. A speed bump to be endured but ignored on the way to globalisation bliss, it's been ticking away for decades. It’s the over enthusiasm of zealots, with a religious fervour, that have kept these issues out of the public light by controlling the narrative. No light = no disinfectant, as they say, a festering puss wound is what we have now...

All these things are interrelated. The screws were kept way too tight for way too long, allowing all sorts of badness to develop.

The dam is broken. Deal with the shit you kept dismissing, shit you're still dismissing. Dismissing and explaining away with more fucking political correctness!!

It's not that people have lurched to the right. It's just that the left haven't dealt with anything. Anything at all, Just dismiss, denigrate, distract.

You know, good old Al.....

BB -

"Environmental degradation is a product of numbers of people, consumption per person and the environmental impact of each unit of consumption. Increasing numbers of people in Australia will affect Australia's resource use unless the extra numbers can be compensated for by lower consumption per person or increased resource&endash;use efficiency.
In a study for the NPC [National Population Council], G. McGlynn estimated that, in order just to keep resource use constant while population and incomes were increasing at current rates, a 3.11 per cent increase in efficiency of resource use per year would be required. However, another study cited by the NPC showed that increases in efficiency have not exceeded 2.1 per cent since 1965. (Population Issues Committee 1992, p. 44)

https://www.uow.edu.au/~sharonb/STS300/limits/studies/population.html

BB you can blame governments but it's irrelevant, the result is the same.

You say "it is not immigration causing excessive land clearing" which may have some truth in it when talking about grazing land but you're choosing to ignore the great swathes of coastal land cleared for residential housing.

Of course this is driven by population growth caused primarily by high levels of immigration.

Do you have details of what you think a sustainable carrying capacity for Australia is?

Andy the government decides what land is to be made available for housing. The current policies along the NSW coast are appalling and are the equivalent of urban sprawl. Clearing large areas of bush for tract housing is not sustainable ..... but it is what people seem to want and, having looked around the market over last few months, they are getting it at discount prices. I haven't looked at the subsidies from various levels of government but I would be really surprised if the price covers all the provision of services. The size of the sustainable population? Depends on a huge number of decisions but, with sound environmental management, I would think double current levels.

Really BB, the only physically feasible way to achieve that is to vastly increase the density of housing.
Medium density/high density high rise living.
You'll see those conversations occasionally happening......

But not by politicians.

If they want a Big Australia they are going to need to come clean with the Australian people and let them know a major drop in living standard is going to be neccessary.

Blindboy is onto to it...When did we ever make things better?

A couple of Swear Words that all spell the beginning of { The End }

Royal Commission =(All admit Guilt > everyone walks & it's business as usual)
Government Inquiry =(Parties agree to water down laws for tougher guidelines)
Administrative Review=(Cap golf club memberships+Lower Penthouse Body Corp)

World Heritage =(Timeshare Resort with dead fish in the pool & weeds out back)
National Park = (Domestic Pet's Toilet block with new improved Drone fly-thru)
WSR =( Fresh new Jetski slaughter yard menu with PFAS Milkshake on tap)
Land Clearing Laws= (Bluey's Bulldozer Grand Prix Circuit)
Kiddies Park= (Crown Casino Reserve)
Golf Course Frontage =(Ass end of Mayor's Whiteshoe Townhouse Development)

Heritage Listed=(Neon cafe sign highlights pricey chalk board menu) [No photos]
Aboriginal Sacred Site =(Re: Kiddies Park)
Town Fountain = (Mad Monday Urinal)

Here's our latest Govt triumph! See if you can spot the Aussie Norm fuck up!

AA Recycling =(Govt employs [L] XXXX Trolley Boyz'n'girlz) Adult mess in aisle 4.
https://www.centralwesterndaily.com.au/story/5171823/queue-forms-for-rec...
(AA Depot Hotline)..."Send an Ambo to Collect the Dad + lots & lots of Coffee"

and again ....This grom moonshiner is outed in "Kids News"(Dad & I luv beer?)
https://www.kidsnews.com.au/environment/australias-newest-container-depo...

Full credit goes to the Government...[Kidz Beer money] "Cheers Norm!"
A fair dinkum tip has never crossed Oz Pollies radar.
More stupid with each & every Govt...We're doomed to fail.

freeride, when was the last time you were in Sydney? It is already happening on a grand scale and it is demand driven by young people who cannot afford freestanding housing in the area they want to live, retirees moving closer to the city centre to enjoy the cultural and entertainment options and immigrants from countries where that type of housing is more common and people who just want a spectacular view. Times change, Country areas need to consolidate in a similar manner but with less density.

Meanwhile in Australia's parliament:

"Now let’s be clear – in the briefing, which the government declassified, the advice included this:

“Although people smugglers may claim there has been a shift in Australian policy and entry to Australia is now possible with just the opinion of two doctors, the resumption of large-scale people smuggling to Australia will remain dependent on a shift in potential illegal immigrant (PII) intent – not smuggler marketing.

PIIs will probably be interested in any perceived or actual pathway where resettlement in a western country is guaranteed, even if such a pathway includes a period spent in detention. However, PIIs will probably remain sceptical of smuggler marketing and await proof that such a pathway is viable, or that an actual change of policy has occurred, before committing to ventures.”

The boat turnback policy remains in place. As for those with “serious allegations against them in relation to potential criminal activities”, the government has refused to give numbers, or examples on that. You can not be found to be a refugee with a serious criminal history and most of the people on Manus and Nauru have been judged, by both the UNHCR and Australian authorities, to be refugees. That is not an easy process.

The government has also been medically evacuating people off Nauru and Manus – but it has just been done through the courts. This has not resulted in an influx of arrivals.

The boats didn’t stop coming. They have just been turned back. That is a documented fact. The medical evacuation bill maintains ministerial discretion for those rare cases that involve criminality. The medical review panel will be appointed by the government and will include Border Force officers. The bill only applies to the current cohort on Manus and Nauru. The advice makes it clear that while the people smugglers may claim there has been a shift in Australia’s policy, those they are marketing to will “probably remain sceptical ... and await proof” that a pathway to settlement in a western country is actually viable.

The government established an agreement with the US to settle some of the families on Nauru there and that did not result in an influx of boats – and that was an actual policy that settled refugees in a western country.

The asylum seekers and refugees sick enough to be transferred to Australia for treatment will remain in detention. They will be sent back once treated.

None of the government’s arguments make sense."

"Can we just take a moment to look back at that press conference, at this moment between David Speers from Sky and Scott Morrison:

Speers:

Prime minister, just on medevac, are you willing to say to would-be asylum seekers this will not apply to you if you come now?

Morrison:

If we’re re-elected it won’t apply to anybody because I will reverse it.

Speers asks the question again.

Morrison:

I can only say what the law says. It’s not my law. I think it’s a foolish law. It’s a foolish law and it’s not one that I support.

Speers:

For the sake of deterring arrivals do you say it does not apply to new arrivals?

Morrison:

I’ll be engaging in direct messaging as part of Operation Sovereign Borders with people smugglers and with those who might be thinking on getting on boats.

Not the first time I have done that – to send very clear messaging that my government is in control of the borders.

As long as my government is here you can expect strong border protection and resolved to be in place.

Under a Labor government you can expect to see them fold like a pack of cards, like Bill Shorten did yesterday.

He would not say it. The prime minister, who has spent the past 24 hours telling us our borders will now be over run because of this medical evacuation bill, would not say that it only applies to the cohort already on Manus and Nauru, which is a key part of the bill.

He would not say the words, despite telling us that people smugglers and those they market to, are watching this very closely.

He. Would. Not. Say. It.

Let that sink in."

THE BILL ONLY APPLIES TO THE CURRENT COHORT ON MANUS AND NAURU.

scummo at his lowest ....... but it's OK to be a conniving devious ratbag, 'cos Jesus told him to do it.

"the government decides what land is to be made available for housing. The current policies along the NSW coast are appalling and are the equivalent of urban sprawl. Clearing large areas of bush for tract housing is not sustainable ..... "

Yeah and these policies exist because of Australia's extraordinary rate of immigration!

You're living in this fantasy land where it's ok to have these mad immigration policies because you can blame it on the government or because it's "what people want" and not consider that the number of immigrants is the root of the problem.

You're not making sense.

And as for your idea of the size of a sustainable population, as usual you pull something out of the air, something based on how it 'feels' to you.

Mate, you're a non-fact based ideologue.

No mate they exist because developers pressure governments and it is politically unwise to deny them or charge the actual cost of provision of services. Your argument is absurd. You could live a long time in most NSW coastal towns before you met a recent immigrant. Go look who is living in those developments. Retirees and young families most of who, were born or grew up here. So the problem is over-whelmingly greed and poor governance ........... it makes complete sense ...... but too many people are blinded by Murdoch bullshit and scomo sleaze. Easy to believe when you don't want real change and policies that ensure sustainable practice. See ya!