The new golden age of fear

Hey SD,

Been wondering when somebody would pile into this Commission of Audit report.

Interesting you've zoomed in on the pension age I reckon, because demographics is probably the easiest 'macro' trend to forecast and defend. To take your advice and avoid any emotion based claims, check out the ABS website, Australia's Population, Population Pyramid - you can toggle the dates and get a view of the forecast age breakdown from 1971 to 2061.

That increase in the median population age is by no means unique to Australia, and is far worse in say Japan and Russia. The results are inescapable though, an erosion of the country's employed vs. retired population = less money coming in, with vastly increased overheads. You need to do something about it and it's a problem that certainly all developed countries (as well as still developing such as China) are going to have to wrestle with soon enough.

It's one thing to advocate protesting mate, but putting forward an alternative solution would be more useful if you're not happy with what's been put on the table. Thoughts?

Cheers,

Mick

Sheepdog wrote:

Yeah yeah.... woteva.... dog.....

yappin away too much for me today doggie! tryin to get my head around sattelite images first ;)

SD,

Sorry only just saw your post re: wind turbines too. I would agree with your sentiment - I think everyone would - but it does require some qualifications in my view:

- are you prepared to pay more for it? Because renewables are still vastly more expensive to produce at a base load power level
- are some corporate subsidies better than others? Because that's the only way renewables can compete.
- what are your views on unconventional oil & gas (ie horizontal wells, fracking etc)? They're clearly the fastest way to reduce carbon emissions in the short term (as per the US) because they take coal fired power stations offline ... an alternative is say Germany which has gone balls deep into renewables, but is also mining and burning more low grade lignite (brown) coal than ever before to try and bring down the total cost of energy production (with nowhere near the carbon emissions reduction that the US has achieved)

Energy is a complex cost-benefit equation for any single country to address because ultimately the causes and effects will not be constrained to national borders.

Cheers,

Mick

The worst thing about Joe Hockeys " eyesore " dilemna . Is that he and other sare happy for " ugly eyesores " and health traps to be located far away form themsleves in shitty run down back waters .

Realistically he should be looking at those windfarms as a reminder of all the wasteful energy that is used on daily basis unecessarily , unfortunately power gets cheaper with higher consumption rates ( a economics of scale for the end user ) , and now its all privatised the government can't control pricing .

Just passing the buk , in the " Teflon Age " ,
No - one cares . as long as something messy doesn't stick to any actions or decisions made .

Hey Southey ... funny hey, I actually think windfarms can look pretty majestic myself but anyway ...

Re: your comments:

- You need to locate things like power plants somewhere though right? They're always going to be in someone's backyard ultimately.

- Must admit I don't know exactly how these things work in other states but here in WA, the government does still control energy pricing through the Economic Regulation Authority (with the Independent Market Operator also playing a large role). They've part outsourced the production (as I think they should personally) but they still control the tariffs (and the distribution importantly) and it's then up to the private sector to decide if they can make money within the bounds set by government or not.

It's not quite as laissez faire as you may think.

Cheers,

Mick

I've worked and lived in WA in the Electrical Industry , infact i was in a team that oversore the installation of the Rotto windturbine , and had my face all over print and media when Gallop launched it .
I'm aware of the situation there and its not much different elsewhere . In Vic , ( someone correct me if I'm wrong ) I'm not sure if they own the infrastructure anymore ( definitely not all of it anyway , maybe just pre-existing and the land ) . Anyway pretty sure over there they have the first say on pricing and over here they just have to justify / and gov't has final say .

Regardless , there are different Tariff's offered by the distributors , because obviously they buy it off the Generators . And so must fill quota's .... Anyway over here large industrials can get bulk power at aroudn 11-13 cents a kwh , and generally speaking mums and Dad's will pay 24-28 cents a kwh . I'm unsure if those low levels are subsidised , but most likely the free market and ecomies of scale are the driving factor .....

Cool mate, thanks for the info.

No doubt economies of scale dictate pricing to the big guys, as they do everywhere.

On subsidies, we all get power cheaper today than any new replacement capacity because of the embedded infrastructure costs (i.e. historic subsidies). The regulator here has actually made the installation of new capacity uneconomic over the last year or two and hard to see that changing drastically over the next year or two in my view. Smart meters and various other supply management measures are all being deployed (slowly) to make existing assets work harder rather than build new (peaking stations are really expensive for the government, these are the ones that are essentially paid to stand idle 95% of the time, but are required on those few times a summer hot spells).

Cheers,

Mick

Don't you just love the Age of Entitlement (AOE) chums ie. Tony, Joe and the boys. They benefitted immensely from the largesse of the so called AOE now they want to punish everybody. Those crazy right wing bald, shrinking suits who put this together are very happy in Brighton and Toorak. They want everybody to be like the USA (which by the way is down the shitter - don't get sick there if you are poor). But hey the free market fixes everything. We shouldn't even have government just let the rich get richer and you know the rest. Funny sounds familiar, now if I remember rightly wasn't it in the 80's that we heard all this. But wait, then we heard it again with jaydubba bush and that worked really well. Nothing like being myopic to broaden your terms of reference.

mickj wrote:

Cool mate, thanks for the info.

No doubt economies of scale dictate pricing to the big guys, as they do everywhere.

On subsidies, we all get power cheaper today than any new replacement capacity because of the embedded infrastructure costs (i.e. historic subsidies). The regulator here has actually made the installation of new capacity uneconomic over the last year or two and hard to see that changing drastically over the next year or two in my view. Smart meters and various other supply management measures are all being deployed (slowly) to make existing assets work harder rather than build new (peaking stations are really expensive for the government, these are the ones that are essentially paid to stand idle 95% of the time, but are required on those few times a summer hot spells).

Cheers,

Mick

Yeah and we all really need aircon down here in Victoria, just can't deal with sweating a bit in summer. It is bullshit that we have to pay for this through our bills, there should be a tax on the bloody things. And there is the rub it is aircon everywhere that needs this load, which is the reason the northern states were relatively uninhabited until the invention of aircon, and had sensible housing to go with it (eg, The Queenslander). Now they build bunkers like the southern states (it works down here as you get the benefit of the thermal mass in winter) so they can create refrigerators.

Who in there right mind would employ someone at 70. Always ill, slow in there work, fedup with
the world and basicly couldnt give a shit. Yeh smart idea alright. Joe Hockey you deadset repulse me.

70? After working as a PAYE tax payer all my life, because my wife is younger, I will not be eligible for a pension until I am 83!

I think the fear thing isn't new, it has just become so professional now it is a little repulsive, even when its your side doing it.

I like the idea of protest, but it is the age of apathy, as peoples concerns are tempered with ineffective online campaigns and likes. What would they protest anyway? mining, everyone loves it...now, climate change? seems to be out of fashion. Consumption patterns and growth? unapproachable.

I dont get the opposition to wind farms, There is currently plenty of resistance to another one proposed for yorkes. i think they are kiinda nice to look at too, better than looking at torrens island power station, and you get all that energy from such a simple source. SA has got to something like 30% renewable energy from them. If cash strapped SA can do it surely other states can (maybe not the East coast due to wind and aesthetics) I think the opposition too them and associated illnesses have to be the result of philosophical ideas some people cannot let go of. If the choice is burn/nuke something with lots of waste or catch the wind with zero waste, the decision seems simple.

I love the idea of an air-conditioner tax or premium rate for houses with aircon. I think electricity should be scaled so low use houses pay less, give some incentive, this wont be popular but I think electricity is way too cheap.

Fracking, seems kinda like a desperate tactic to source energy, especially when we know so little about what it is doing to the geology and water. Seems to be people protesting that one though.

The Commission of Audit pantomime and the Coaltions big lie.

http://www.independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/the-commission-of-audit-and-the-coalitions-big-lie,6439

The age of entitlement is over, the age of inequality is beginning in Australia. This funny short video of two monkey's shows the inevitable result....

http://m.

e wrote:

It's almost like the government want us to lower our lifestyle instead of our neighbours raising theirs...

I read an article thoroughly dissecting the latest Japanese and South Korean FTA's with Australia...to address the point you make above - Australia needs to drop minimum hourly wage by ~$14 AUD to raise developing Asian nations minimum hourly wage by 0.03 cents AUD, and this still does not bring them to a level playing field in standards of living.

I'll see if I can track down the source article.

classic monkey video, lets hope it doesn't come to that

I'm with you sheepdog, you speak a lot of sense for a dog, maybe not the coal stuff, but yeh apparently one big volcano kinda cancels the whole climate change argument. best to err on the side of caution though I think, plus there are so many associated benefits to changing to renewable s, something labor failed to convey to the electorate, losing a battle that had already been won.

Gotta agree with the boomers riding the gravy train for all it was worth and leaving a bit of a mess behind if half of the economics and science is true.

But I gotta say some cuts seem appropriate after 6 deficits in a row, the system got too fat through the boom years with 'Howards middle class welfare' then Labor was too chicken to wind it back when the good times slowed, instead they gave everyone $900 cheques,did people really think you wouldn't have to pay for that sometime?

but yeh definitely tired of the bullshit and spin, is anybody falling for it, or are we just hearing the bits we want to hear?

e wrote:

or are we just hearing the bits we want to hear?

Unfortunately, a large percentage of the population are in the grip of cognitive dissonance.

I love your weather watching, quite impressive really even if a "one trick pony"

Yeh I tend to agree again, there seems to be some big holes in the theory, especially around the sun cycles, past changes you mention, and how natural processes can put out more than we possibly can. But I am just a layman who doesn't read scientific papers so I trust in the scientists appraisals....a bit, I'm having a bet each way you might say, but I am losing faith as it has become almost like religion, which tends to cloud judgement, then the name calling starts, you hethan, you heretic

despite this, the benefits for moving away from coal etc. far outweigh the losses for me.

it is a little bit cliche, a bit tree huggy, and a bit 70s and 80s, but the clearing of forests and replanting arguments don't get enough attention I reckon in the modern environmental discussion.

Big Pharma is definitely the go! I think the kids are gonna be on anxiety depression meds no matter what the contemporary zietghiest is, it is the precious generation the boomers and gen x have created

It's great to see a return to good old conservative Christian values from this government.

I wish I could say I'm surprised by all this Sheepy but I'm not. I could see this coming from a mile away. That's why I couldn't/ wouldn't vote for the Coalition. Labor may be frustrating and at times incompetent but in my opinion they are the lesser of two evils.

This whole economic emergency crap that Hockey is going on about is a sham designed to further their neo-con agenda of turning us into a little America.
David Koch called bullshit on it yesterday morning on Sunrise pointing out we have the lowest debt to GDP ratio of the top 13 countries in the OECD, lowest interest rates, a tripe A credit rating, and lowest unemployment levels.
It almost seemed like Hockey was disappointed when last months unemployment figures showed another drop as it didn't fit with his 'budget crisis mantra' that he wanted to pedal in the lead up to the coming budget.

When I think back to the hatchet job the LNP and mainstream media did on Gillard from 2010 to 2013 I can't help but think what did she actually do that outraged everyone apart from bring in a carbon tax which, whether you believe in man made climate change or not, was primarily designed to allow a smooth transition away from fossil fuel dependence to renewables by funding the renewable energy fund. I certainly didn't see any noticeable increase in my costs of living after the carbon tax came in?

With the new governments reversal of these policies it's obvious they are in the pockets of the energy/ resource industry and their needs are being prioritised over the long term interests of Australa.

Agree with you 100%!
I was disgusted with the knifing of Rudd!
If only the Greens had supported the Emmisions Trading Scheme and first version of the Mining Tax we would be in a much stronger position now both economically and our position as a responsible country when it comes to dealing with the environment.

If Rudd had called a double dissolution at the end of '09 after having these policies blocked for the third time in the senate (and when Abbott was first elected to lead the opposition) he would have won easily and Abbott would have been confined to the dust bin of history where he belongs. I once heard Rudd say on Q&A that it was his greatest regret.
Now we must all live with the consequences of Labor's incompetence......

I think the Rudd knifing was no big deal, just the normal rough and tumble of politics, most people saw it way different, and never forgave.

Yep YS if only with the greens.......we wouldn't have had to hear 4 years of tax tax tax, blah blah blah, what was Gillard doing introducing the term carbon tax? I know it was a stepping stone but the whole idea seemed dumb even to supporters.

Unfortunately the greens got drunk with power and pushed it too far, they really thought this was the turning of the corner for all things green, now they look like heading the way of the democrats, so sad

Yep sheepdog any party that can look people straight in the eye, is what is needed, but I think it is impossible in current politics, the public wants services services services while paying a minimum of tax, that just does not happen, and somehow they believe it can, I cannot believe how stupid and manipulable the public are, hear only what we want to hear, the trippergreenman is onto something with this 'cognitive dissonance'

yeh shorten is a little tarred, but more importantly he's a lot uninspiring, the others aren't much better

shorten is just a stooge until an election or two pass then they can choose a potential candidate with a chance, because it'll take at least one or two elections for labor to recover. they lack relevance and good leaders. Pretty sad could be three terms of Abbott.

Labor need someone like John Faulkner to step up, is he still around? They need somebody new, and a new ideology, or just an ideology?, or at least an idea? something cause at the moment they got nothin

Yeah not a bad little earner for the banks Sheepy! Then there is the attack on the minimum wage contained in the commission of audit report. They would like to see the minimum wage reduced every year for 10 years before abolishing it altogether! After that states would compete with each other to see who can offer the lowest wages and thereby attract business investment. Pity the poor peasants who will have to live under these conditions!

Now it's become fashionable to bash the unions these days and greedy individuals in these organisations have done great damage through their actions but we shouldn't forget that almost all the benefits and working conditions we enjoy are a result of 100 years of fighting for workers rights. Despite the influence of unions being weakened they are all we have got to stand up to these bastards!
Consider reading this petition then scroll to the bottom and add your name if it's something you believe in?

http://www.australianunions.org.au/your_wages_are_under_attack?utm_campa...

Not that simple though SD, look at all the Aust banks Return on Assets. Not that flash.

Didn't take Peter garret long to tow the party line.

Did peter actually sell out or not

No, I don't think he did, especially not if 'selling out' is construed as taking the cash. Think he would've been pretty comfortable after his Midnight Oil days. Selling out his beliefs is probably what you're asking and, again, I don't think he did. People's values and beliefs change over time, they evolve and develop when immersed in the world. Show me someone who still belives what they did at 18 and I'll show you a stunted, politically naive individual.

When Garrett entered poitics Bob Brown threw a series of public barbs his way saying big party politics would destroy him. Deconstructing those statements, Brown knew that Garrett was rock solid in his beliefs but where they disagreed was the appropriate vehicle to launch them: a small party with sharp focus, or a major party with more power to get things but always beholden to it's internal machinations.

For his part, and these are my thoughts here, Garrett held true to his beliefs. He initiated a few worthy projects that could well have sprung from the Greens if they had the ability, yet Brown's assessment of politics was spot on: well-meaning projects were subsumed by partisan politics. Perhaps if Garrett had read some Macchiaveli he might have questioned Rudd's motives more. Then again, if Garrett chose to join the Greens what could he have done? He's no leader, a capable Minister at best.

For mine, Garrett's story is more about the indiscriminate nature of politics and not so much the failure of one man.

Latest Poll Labor-53%, LNP-47%. So a proportion of those who voted for the current government are expressing their dissatisfaction. It's hard to feel sorry for these disgruntled Coalition voters. They are getting exactly what they voted for.

I hope its not 3 terms, but Abbott is looking a lot like Howard, totally unpalatable to those on the left, but credit where credit is due, they are competent at implementing their agenda, they have conviction, which modern Labor lacks, as they try to appeal to everyone. I cant stand Abbott or Howard but at least you know what they stand for, more than you can say for contemporary Labor. Myanmar is looking good Sheepdog, must be lots of waves up that way, small warm and inco ones though I guess, waiting for cyclones/typhoons whatever they call them up there, might be your beloved sunny coast but without the crowds!! Sign me up for a bamboo cafe too.

Garrett had conviction, he probably still has, but I guess it has been twisted towards loathing Labor. When he first joined journalists asked him about voting against his beliefs, he basically said he can do that for the party good, it would have to wear you down though, Garrett didn't sell out he "nailed his colours to the flag" he thought he could achieve more through Labor, pity Labor were/are going through an identity crisis. I hope he is the great man still above reproach, because it sounds like the insulation inquiry is going to make either Garrett or Rudd look pretty bad, someone is going to have take the rap, we already know Rudd's a bit of a tool, I hope he was the main tool here.

Nice results there YS, what a quick turnaround, gives a little hope, but its more dissatisfaction with Abbott's methods rather than approval of Labor, they need to offer something, something cohesive, with conviction, but they just seem to pander to the chardonnay socialists and whatever is fashionable, appeasing the chardonnay socialists without belittling the real working class is the only way they will get enough support, not an easy task though, those real working class are a little grubby to try and appeal to, though Howard achieved it somehow.

One of Garrett's major failures was his complete lack of a sense of humour and he takes himself way too seriously. Lighten up a little Pete and show a bit of warmth. Need to bring others along for the ride and I can't see he made too many inroads beyond his niche in the left, and many of those were fickle as they turned on him. I think putting himself on a pedestal was always going to be a problem. He preached pretty hard for many a year then went into the party machine and go chewed up. Welcome to the realpolitik.

The golden age of fear may not be so new after all?
Back at the end of last year I bought a wood heater and spent the hideous flat spell in November installing it. My house is one of the oldest in the bay, and when I ripped a wall out where the heater was gonna go I found all these old newspapers behind the insulation. I couldn't help but stop and read them.

They were from the 1960's just before Australia changed to decimal currency as all the adverts were in pounds, shillings and pence. Harold Holt was the Primeminister before he went for his big swim.
And the hysteria of the day was 'REDS UNDER THE BED'!
There was an article about a teacher who was alleged to have been reciting Chinese Communist Chairman Mao's words and speeches to her class and further comment on the education system in Australia being subverted by communist sympathiser's in our schools and universities!

Another was from Griffith Liberal MP Donald Mackay (who must of been the Scott Morrison of his time) drumming up more fear by demonising the Italian immigrants and their evil ways. He would later meet his fate at the hands of the Griffith mafia so he might have been onto something there!
Never the less when it comes to the politics of fear the faces, races, groups and people targeted may change, but the fear remains the same!

How does Petey sleep when their beds are burning?

Very well, in a king size, luxury ensemble, with matching all weather doonas, dreaming about retirement on a mind bending salary, complete with free admission to the labour club, and unlimited front bar tab, that he ain't giving back to no one.

I think Petes actions in the next ten years without the constraints of his political party will define how he is remembered. Writing and performing great music with political and environmental change as the main aim was no doubt a great contribution to the general publics awareness of these issues. I think he should be commended for at least throwing his hat in the ring with the big boys and I am sure he thought he could achieve more than he actually did.
Better than being the nob sitting on the point whinging that the tide is too low, too high, too crowded, too fat, too hollow. Coulda, shoulda, woulda, at least he had a crack!

Plus, fuck me, when are we ever gonna see another bloke dance like that!