Push For 4WD Beach Ban
During the recent Cyclone Alfred swell in Queensland, a friend of Swellnet drove into Double Island Point to escape the Noosa crowds. Unlike Noosa, he managed to get a carpark within walking distance of the waves, yet so did 200 other cars.
Shocked by how many 4WDs were on the beach, he was told that during summer holidays the numbers can be double that. At the beaches closer to Brisbane it's even worse: Reports from Bribie Island say that up to 1,200 4WDs hit the beach per day.
Double Island Point
On a sparsely populated island nation, beach access is a weighty issue. It's being driven - excuse the pun - towards a crisis point by both population rise and technological change. A generation ago, 4WDs made up between 15%-20% of the new car market. Now, however, once-popular models such as the Holden Commodore and Ford Falcon have given way to Toyota Landcruisers and Ford Rangers, plus a raft of 4WDs. The market has shifted with 4WDs now 46% of new cars (as of 2024), expected to top 50% in the next few years.
Though a large number of those cars will never go off road, the change is significant enough to effect what were once difficult-to-access areas, overloading limited services and damaging fragile landscapes. If a driver wants to test their sports car they're shunted onto a race track, yet 4WD enthusiasts who want to test their cars have very few limits on where they can go - except if they live in Victoria, see below.
The southern states have had a reckoning on beach driving with laws either changed or being looked at. Victoria, for instance, has outlawed beach driving except for a dedicated area at Discovery Bay near Portland, while South Australia is looking at new laws after recent incidents at both Yorke and Eyre Peninsulas. They may soon also restrict beach driving.
Now the conversation has arisen in Queensland, where beach driving, particularly in the populated south-east corner is immensely popular. With so much hard-to-access coastline, much of it with great surf spots, the popularity of beach driving in Queensland is no suprise.
(University of the Sunshine Coast)
A recent study, global in reach but led by the University of the Sunshine Coast, found 4WDs were causing "unequivocal serious and widespread damage" to coastal dune ecosystems.
The research looked at 253 dune species, including vegetation, bird life, and marine creatures, across twenty international studies. Lead author Thomas Schlacher told the ABC all of the species had suffered negative effects caused by off-road vehicles. He said while much of the focus in the past had been on protecting sand dunes, the hard sand also had an ecosystem under threat.
"The hard sand has invertebrates buried in it, things like pipis and crabs, which are important fish foods when the fish come in at high tide, particularly at night," Professor Schlacher said. "The four-by-fours running over them basically crush them to death."
Turtle hatching can also be disturbed in a number of ways. Nesting turtles can be disrupted, at worst killed when run over, while hatchlings, which measure 5cm or less, get trapped in typre ruts worn into beaches from heavy traffic and are unable to return to the sea.
A convoy of 4WDs head north from Double Island Point towards Rainbow Beach
Professor Schlacher also notes that sand dunes are mobile environments, yet when 4WD tracks are formed it locks a dune system into place, making it unable to shift as it otherwise would.
Darren Jew from the Bribie Island National Park conservation team, has been pushing to ban 4WDs from a five-kilometre stretch of sand at the northern end of the island.
"Bribie has hardly any beach at high tide. It's chaos. It's the wild west up there at times," Mr Jew told the ABC. "There can be 1,200 vehicles on the beach in one day, and that's ridiculous. It's just like a Woolies car park."
Bribie Island traffic congestion (Darren Jew)
However, 4WD advocates oppose restrictions. They point to compromises such as seasonal night bans as a potential middle ground. Queensland's Environment Minister Andrew Powell acknowledged the concerns but stressed the need for a balance between conservation and public access.
"My job is to make sure we find the balance between conserving and protecting the environment and allowing people to get out there and enjoy it," said Powell. "I appreciate for many, they would love to see four-wheel drives off the beaches, but I for one can't see that as an outcome that would be acceptable."
Professor Schlacher refutes the claim that regulation - restricting the number of drivers - will help the problem. "It only takes one vehicle to cause very severe impacts," said Schlacher. Instead he argues that "sizeable proportions" of the Queensland coast should be off limits.
"At least half," said Professor Schlacher. "That's a good starting point."
Comments
It's incredible how much it's grown.
Growing up on Bribie, we'd ride our bikes up the beach to surf and fish up the tip of the Island- it was a very rare, rare day you would see a 4WD on the beach.
Absolutely mental now.
Took the FIL to K'gari last year- off season.
It was staggering the number of 4WD's on the Island and using the beach.
It felt completely overrun.
defiantly changed , aint no way theres 1200 4wds hitting bribie in a day ,
the turtle lady here is like the gustapo, wants them banned but is happy enough to run her little can-am up and down the beach ,
done work for the parks with your b/inlaw and his, the old harvey wallbanger!!
i think those numbers for here are flawed,
"Bogans Run" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan%27s_Run_(film)
Anyone running over the dunes with endangered loggerhead turtles & Little tern eggs, could sell their 4WD and camp at Boganville..... . ....& get a tat with the "message" above.... a preposterous, superfluous concept, after millions of years of evolution.
https://7news.com.au/video/news/central-queensland/bribie-island-turtle-...
Evidence shows the there are two key things that have a devastating effect on the beach eco system
One- cleaning the sand. Those machines that rake the sand each morning. Usually found in high volume tourist spots
Two - driving on the beach
Driving on beaches can have significant negative impacts on coastal ecosystems. Research indicates that such activities can alter beach-dune morphology, leading to smaller dunes set further back from the shoreline. This change makes the foredune more susceptible to scarping and overwash during storms and hurricanes.
Additionally, vehicle traffic on beaches can compact sand, making it difficult for turtles, birds, and other animals to nest and forage. Studies have also shown that pro-environmental driving behaviors are uncommon and often ineffective in reducing disturbances to beach-dwelling birds, suggesting that other solutions, such as beach closures, might be necessary.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260557782_Pro-Environmental_Bea...
https://www.environment.sa.gov.au/goodliving/posts/2024/12/beach-driving...
They all need to go, the beach is the economy we need to keep stable for future generations. Seriously what are they thinking that looks crazy.
Hard to believe that I used to hunt for someone to go to D.I with me for a surf so I wouldn’t be alone but went anyway if I couldn’t get anyone when I lived around Noosa. ….I surfed alone regularly on both sides.
It shouldn’t be banned but may come to the point when all coastal regions only allow local residents and ratepayers to access the local beaches in 4wds.
City people can buy a Ferrari instead……
I’d like a Ferrari……nothing wrong with a Ferrari…..or a Maserati….which is a cheap Ferrari.
Wicked problem. We get slammed down at Goolwa Beach in summer and holidays, and the they can be completely empty during the winter. That stretch to the Murray mouth is about 7km long and on busy days there can be cars parked side by side the entire length, which is entirely crazy and turns the beach into a parking lot. People looking both ways to get to the water....crazy. In fact, the whole beach was classified as a road with an open speed limit until a change in legislation last year which we all petitioned for. Prior to that the speed limit was 100km/h!!! and some people were close to that with others on the beach. Banning that sort of stuff needs to be outlawed and enforced.
I hate the idea of banning everyone though but if its seriously ruining the beach ecology and morphology then it might be the only answer. Pretty tragic its come to that....but on the flip side, empty beaches are pretty nice.
I wonder if there will be a run on jet skis as a result?
I was at Moana beach on the Mid Coast of SA last night and the noise from 4WDs on the beach was similar to a bad day at Rye front beach (Mornington Peninsula) with Jetskis. Constant revving, fully destroying the ambience of the place. This morning at the same beach I watched a 20-odd year old drive down the access ramp and about 50 meters along the beach to park for their swim. Less than a 100m walk from the bitumen carpark at the SLSC...
Our Mornington Peninsula beaches don't have vehicle access thankfully. So besides the jetski issue over a handful of weeks/weekends a year which is confined to a small stretch of front beaches, the beach experience is rarely ruined by motor noise or smells.
Just an observation from an out of towner... but the number of cars on the beach along the mid coast seems ridiculous given you have stairs/tracks/beach access everywhere. Maybe it is just because I'm not used to it.
Understand Goolwa is the South Coast and less-populace but still very close to Adelaide.
The thing with Moana is that if you drive down on the hardpacked stuff you can go slowly and you don't even need a 4WD, yet there are always knobs who drive in the soft sand and rocks and rev the crap out of their crappy Pajeros.
Just because you can , doesn't mean you should.
Disgusting photos.
We’re disgusted with the way the carve Italian beaches into private beach clubs but that third picture of Bribie not to mention the DI parking lot is just as disgusting. It’s destroyed what 4WD was about anyway, which was getting away from it all.
Go west (inland)!!
Aint too kind to one's vehicle either, learnt that lesson.
Wow looking at pics even with no swell it looks busy now.
The busiest I have ever seen DI was during a big swell maybe 2016 that was maxing out GC points, so straight after work on Fri I and a couple of mates made a beeline for DI, camping at Teewah on the way.
We rolled in at dawn to be greeted by the 40,000 or so other people who had precisely the same idea and...1-2' of swell at best. Checked our phones when we could get a signal and Kirra was going off its chops. We completely stuffed it and could only laugh. Tested the theory of whether misery truly does love company because we had plenty of it.
So I am not surprised when I see a beach that looks like a carpark but with no waves breaking. I look for my mate's X-Trail.
Insane. Has to be a quota or permit system introduced, this is 100% not sustainable. Most are bogan dickheads not there to actually enjoy the beach anyway...
Most going up aren’t surfers except when there’s a whiff of a cyclone swell. I only go in middle of winter. Still a few around but few surfers.
There’s a big difference between surfers owning a 4Wd to access surf and recreational 4wd’ers. Many a track that we accessed in 2wd’s as Groms have been fucked by jacked up cockheads with mud tyres.
Unfortunately we all lose, only the bogans will blame the greenies for being “woke” and take little to no responsibility for the situation themselves.
Que Quadzilla
100% soggy, fucken bogans..
They are banned from going on the beach where i am and am glad they are, so many idiots before and half of em pissed thinking the beach is a race track........dumb cnts
Lanno back beach is now a Toyota-sponsored circus on a weekend. Look both ways, in front of the vehicle and behind it into the foredune! Of interest: never seen the banks so bad there, either; straight, brutal closeouts. I mean they are average most of the time, but this was something new, late summer and all.
Rellies inform me Southgates at Gero has now largely been mined and spread over crops. It apparently isn't the place they played, sandboarded and biked when they were young.
Also: that's a sweet HJ61 leading in 3rd pic - got the Sahara roof.
I wonder if that photo was intentionally selected. Banging on about 46% of new cars being the problem and Stu throws up a lineup of Cruiser, Patrol ute, Jackaroo, Hilux, Troopy, Disco, Sierra and a Commodore Adventra? Well played.
Happy to take credit but you waaaaay overestimate my automotive knowledge.
I see a red car and a blue car, another red one followed by a white one, brown, blue etc etc
DI no good for spotto, do any yellow 4WDs exist?
Now we're getting into the nitty gritty.
https://media-hosting.imagekit.io/631e1f424b2541fb/Yellow%204WD.JPG?Expi...
Last century .... yes
Drastically reduce permits. Drastically increase price. Lottery system during peak demand. Twice a day, capped numbers, beach bus to camp grounds for the poor. Done. Or just ban it.
Only permit vehicles of alloy construction that do not rust. So that's Land Rover Defenders, their panels anyway. They are a minute % of all 4x4s here. And the meek shall inherit the earth.
Land Drovers, very upper crust VJ. Until they’re a pile of smouldering molten Ali on the side of the road :)
I was hoping someone would make an oil spill/oil leak joke...
can confirm chassis aren't aly and do rust ,
owned a landy troopy with a few mates , watched my mate masking tape rust holes and the spray body deadener paint over so she would pass the dodgy roady :)
Fair and efficient proposal Sprout
Qld national parks must be making a killing on permit fees.
They can start by banning anyone with large 'Shed Life' stickers plastered on their windscreens.
WOW. Some regulation is definitely required.
If you have a YouTube channel and you name the places that you visit then you should be ashamed of yourself Your handy work is not only about to affect yourself but every one that have enjoyed these beaches for generations.
Why are they like this?
https://m.
Why do you need a ski when its 2-3'?
To ruins others experience with smell and noise pollution ? Or to help similar minded people to identify an opportunity to do it next time?
Always got to ban things in this country
No surprises to see Victoria got in first with the bans. We love nothing more.
That said on this occasion, supportive. Those photos above of the sand car parks are fucked.
We are spoiled here on this stretch of coast DX3 - all breaks can 2wd access, carparks mostly paved in bitumen, of higher quality than regional Vic's roads.
I don't think you can drive anywhere in Victoria on beaches. Strictly verboten. This meshes with the ease of riding enduro bikes off piste seems Queensland is very relaxed about it whilst in Victoria Strictly controlled which I think is a good thing.
Sell the bogan 4WDs & send the rebels to work for Bougainville mines
"The Autonomous Bougainville Government (ABG) has faced ongoing problems with some supporters of the late Francis Ona in the no-go zone near the Panguna mine, who have refused to accept the peace process. "
Reference https://minorityrights.org/communities/bougainvilleans/
yep, buts it's the idiots that ruin things that cause the bans.
Muddy mixed messages
My memory might be failing me but I'm surprised that this hasn't been brought up before as an article on Swellnet.
Gotta start by saying that I loved exploring places by 4WD from the early 80s into the 90's, back when pretty much no-one had them.
I've got great memories of going on many expeditions in a Landcruiser FJ55 through North Stradbroke Island's old sand mining tracks before they closed them all off - pretty exciting stuff when you could drive straight down a steep, rutted sand track into the valley but you weren't sure if there was a viable way out.
But as pointed out, population, purchasing habits and environmental awareness have changed in a big way, and the free-for-all of the past is either done, on the way out or under intense scrutiny.
For a start, my fundamental recommendation would be to ban 4WDs from beaches that are reasonably accessible by foot or bike (e-bikes prohibited).
This would include 7 Mile Beach at Lennox, and north-facing beaches on North Stradbroke Island (Flinders Beach), Moreton Island (west of the beach access to get to North Point) and at Double Island Point between Rainbow Beach and DI itself.
Also, on Fraser, access north of Ngkala would be restricted and that north end would be a wilderness area. And no beach driving allowed to the east of the access onto the beach at Waddy Point and maybe Indian Head.
So essentially the relatively small sheltered beaches in the lee of those epic headlands would be vehicle-free while still allowing general access to remote areas.
(I'm not sure about Bribie, I've never been on the beach there.)
It's far from perfect but I see it as a compromise.
I mean, Fraser is a huge cash cow, there's no way they're going to close it down completely, as much as some might like.
It really is a disgrace when people are way too scared to let their kids cross the beach to go for a paddle or a fish on Fraser, but it's big business up there.
Hey Andy long time no getting stuck into SR. Restricting areas doesn’t solve the overcrowding just makes it worse elsewhere id say. The restrictions need to be at the door. How that happens and if I get restricted would be a bitter pill to swallow.
I already restrict myself to the quiet cold months at DI for self benefit and have exclusively gone north of Waddy for a decade. But it’s not so good anymore especially on Fraser with all the nice warm accommodations
I agree the Jas and Simons and similar are making it all too popular.
ps. Simon gets around here having a coffee or whatnot just like on the show. Barefoot and a muscles singlet that couldn’t hold up to some ArmorAll. I like the authenticity of their show compared to say Pat Callinan’s going up tracks your old Nan’s Corolla could get up with a bit of rear seat bouncing for a bit of traction.
Hi Seeds, I'd like to think that if you take back the "parking lot" areas for pedestrians, then people would disperse - if they can't drive right up to Spot X and unfold their $500 270 degree batwing awning and pull out their Waeco fridge with a drop-down slide and a kung-fu grip, then it's going to sort the wheat from the chaff. If you take out some of the lazy consumerism from "4WDing", it might just contract a little.
I'd just like to see things made a bit more difficult for the lazy, surely if you had to walk in (only a few hundred metres) to Adder Rock/North Point/DI/Waddy Point, then 3/4 of people wouldn't bother.
I mean, on the average weekend I reckon half the cars on 7 Mile at Lennox are just there for a joy ride, they're not there for anything in particular. They just want to drive on the beach because it's what Shaun Whale etc. does.
As an aside, that fella has made a fair-sized fortune out of selling the lifestyle to impressionable P-platers.
Fraser is a different story, it's monolithic. Dunno what the answer is, but at the same time, it's easy enough to escape the crowds if you know where to go and/or don't mind walking.
And yeah, I haven't camped south of Waddy since 2010. NPWS seem to be able to manage dingoes and bollards but fucked if they can manage camping areas. I camped at Lake Boomanjin and Central Station in 2010 and it was a nightmare, Central Station in particular was a party in a beer garden until after midnight, totally fucked.
NPWS are full of shit with their "world heritage" this and that, they're happy to take the money but totally unwilling to protect some of the basic values that a place like Fraser should have.
It was one of the few times (Mt Barney was another) that I've been so disappointed that I've sat down and typed out a letter to the powers that be.
No reply either time.
Suffice to say that in my opinion, the management of Fraser falls far short of World Heritage guidelines and management ideals as set out by UNESCO - it's hard to argue that the quality of the visitor experience isn't degraded by excessive visitor numbers.
haha. Easy Tiger!!
Just minding my own business.
And agreed AndyM. Good post.
Just laughs SR.
I get what you’re saying Andy for sure but as you say they aren’t really managing anything. You let them in the problems arise. Commercial interests for sure and the QPWS it seems don’t want the revenue to stop.
We were fortunate enough to do a week at Fraser a few days after Covid locked down the island and there was no one around. Champagne Pools to ourselves and even Lake McKenzie to ourselves. It was surreal probably never to be experienced again.
ps. the west side is still quiet especially in the cooler months. As you’d know it’s spectacular and just far enough away that it’s time consuming to get there.
Your right, 80 kmph at low tide Fraser or Teewah Beach , is hardly getting away from it all .
You have more peace of mind on
Surfers Paradise beach !
And yeah, 4WD 24/7 and All For Adventure and all those crew have a lot to answer for.
look at 'em go! turning your favourite little isolated beach into a Big4 Caravan Park.
why do they all go to the same spot? isn't the point of having a mobile "ah, look at the serenity" machine that you can get away from the crowd?
I know a whole lot of epic camping spots inland from here, some of which might not see anyone for weeks at a time.
Long walk out if you have mechanical trouble though.
And fucked if I'm going to tell anyone where they are :)
Yep get away for the coast and you have it all to yourself. It really is incredible how much land is out there and how few people.
"4WD enthusiasts who want to test their cars have very few limits on where they can go"
I have to disagree with that comment, at least as it pertains to anywhere remotely near this coast. Back in the day it used to be quite easy to get off the beaten track and do some exploring, especially in state forests and national parks with their delightful networks of fire trails offering beauty and adventure each time you turned in, changed the hubs and saw where the track took you.
But have a look around today and they are all closed. Gates everywhere. Public once-designated 4wd tracks are likewise all closing. Places like Nth Straddie, as AndyM mentioned, you used to be able to sensibly explore much of the island's internals but now those tracks are all closed with 4WDing limited to the beach (with an expensive permit). My guess is insurance is a big part of the why.
Likewise there are far more beaches being closed off to 4WDs than are new ones coming online welcoming them.
Yes there has been a surge in 4WD ownership, but I daresay one of the reasons the beaches in this article are so overrun is there are bugger-all proximate alternatives. Demand for forbeys has soared while supply of public terrain has fallen off a cliff. So as unpalatable as it may be to some, (part of) the answer might actually be opening up more areas, not closing off the ones we still have.
The other point I would quickly make is the pictures above are really showing the worst of the worst. Of course sizey, telegraphed swell events are going to attract a tonne of punters to DI. But it is also quite possible still to drive to DI and share the beach with only a handful of others. Likewise I have had some really lovely experiences camping in northern NSW in recent years where I have parked up on a secluded beach with the family and not seen or heard another 4WD within cooee. Zero concerns letting my 18 month old son frolic on the sand. Same experience on Moreton. The beaches are not all as wildly overrun as those pictures suggest.
Dunno what areas you'd open up, certainly not more beaches, and national parks aren't going to happen.
State forests are already open, so not sure what that leaves.
Zoom out on Google maps and check out the green space. Tonnes and tonnes of publicly owned reserves, named and unnamed, nearly all replete with tracks but all closed off to public. Not saying I entirely object, but it was not always that way (which pushes demand elsewhere). I am not aware of any state forests near me that are open to forbeys. Mountain bikes and horses, but nothing motorised.
When I was last out at Sundown NP there were 4wd only trails still open which was nice. I wish there were more. So many beautiful tracks and places once accessible are now solely enjoyed by park rangers. Yes, there are some you can still hike to, which I also enjoy, but not everyone can do those kinds of distances. They're different experiences too.
I get that insurance is a big issue, and of course there has been - and always will be - idiots who ruin it for others, but its still a shame to lose this access. I would dearly love a general winding back of negligence laws across this country such that we could again put up "Enter at own risk" signs and trust that anyone who proceeds will accept full responsibility for their actions beyond that point. While we are dreaming, I would also like a pony.
Down here in NSW at least from say, the Bruxner Hwy down to the Waterfall Way, pretty much all the bushland is National Park, State Forest, nature reserve, conservation area or private land.
Occasionally state forest is locked up, especially if it backs onto NP but generally it's wide open for access by 4WDs.
Certainly, more and more NPs are getting locked up, which I have mixed feelings about. I'd like to access these areas but at the same time, to me NPs are sacred - as little disturbance as possible.
Couldn't agree more with the taking of responsibility for your actions.
The litigious thing is yet another bullshit gift from the U.S..
Would love to see this wound back.
And while we're at it, I'd like a solid gold toilet seat.
On that point, heaps of beaches around here with 4wd access but if the waves are good on the day at particular beaches there can be in excess of 200cars there. So opening up the beaches isn't the answer imo.
What ever happened to using those two things attached to our hips? Most spots are easily walkable within a k or 2 or sealed roads.
Glasshouse Mtns forestry track "destroyed" says 4WDerrrr
Hi rj,
I understand this mindset, and I regretfully acknowledge that when I was younger, I contributed to the damage by clearing select native bushland. I’ve since learned that it was wrong, this natural environment should have remained intact and unaffected. I am truly remorseful for my actions. I’m a very different person now.
No one wants to see nature wasted—whether it’s on the land or at the beaches. Just look at what’s happening on a legal level with new roads being carved through wilderness areas, the opening of new coal and CSG mines, and so on. It’s all driven by private interests, with individuals and corporations working together to push for their gain, often backed by political power plays.
As humans, we tend to think we have the right to do whatever we can simply because we have the ability. We have the will, the influence, and the power to open up areas for our own convenience and escape. But the question is, how many places will be left? We can’t create new ones. And in the end, who suffers? It’s the environment.
The gist of the article implies the impact on nature, the natural wildlife! From my viewpoint it is being ruined, wrecked, shocked, distressed, stunned, dazed, traumatised, trapped, devastated! If what we do, affects the natural course of nature, we have failed to live on this planet in a sustainable way. Cheers
I agree perhaps not so piously I just feel we fuck it up and saddens me. The best place for challenging 4WD poweress seems to me to be in a quarry which has already been stuffed maybe make these into 4WD parks.
Hey memlasurf,
Yeah, get them all into a disused quarry to run amok, haha. Any takers? Hmm..
Driving the beaches..It’s a real gift for them. I know of 2 parties that drive 7 Mile Beach, Lennox, regularly and they’re nice people, not hoons, just selfish.
It’s beautiful out there and that side of it is so alluring and great! But nature, fragile ecosystems suffer a shocking defeat of destruction and death. Hopefully, the beaches will be spared soon, and a ban is imposed.
+1 disused quarry
It seems the drag racing just went 4x4
Imagine coming the other way on a dirt bike!
Hey rj, please don't think you're Robinson Crusoe in your previous behaviour. I reckon there's probably tons of people around who may have been younger dickheads and grown out of their errant ways.
Ignorance was bliss.
I suspect you're aiming to be part of the solution, so more power to you.
First went "Up the beach" in 1974 from Noosa.
Insane fishing and on a weekday not a soul from the ferry to the top of Teewah.
That same area now has problems every busy period. Specifically dodging human shit that pigs don't feel inclined to remove.
I wonder how many of these fuckwits have checked the insurance policy?
Whenever I see a $60000 vehicle up to the roof in saltwater, I wonder if they are covered when off sealed roads?
https://www.suncorp.com.au/learn-about/my-car/are-you-covered-for-offroa...
Just one example of the fine print.
Bogans on poverty pack compulsory third party could be in for a shock.
Another example.
https://www.canstar.com.au/car-insurance/car-insurance-4wd/
The bogan hordes who used to be doing burnouts in their lowered commodores with chrome wheels at industrial estates are now hitting up the beaches in their lifted 4wds with chrome snorkels.
Despite the hardline anti-hooning laws which confiscate vehicles for doing burnouts, I'd prefer for them to be tearing up the bitumen instead of the sand any day.
Staino mate, staino snorkel.
Mint bro.
And F*ck Cancer.
Haha yes! Sorry, I meant staino.
Also as someone who has lost a parent to cancer I can confirm that it does indeed suck, but are the stickers necessary? Its pretty obvious isn't it? Its like having a sticker that says "f*ck murder". Cancer is bad, tell us something we don't know.
Well, I used to be a big fan of cancer, one of its main supporters.
But, you know, seeing those P-platers with those stickers really made me think twice.
haha
That was much better - burn outs in industrial areas even I would be in that. Can't really do any damage to the natural environment. I think it is Camperdown down the west coast (of melbourne) that used to have a road just out of town set up for drags on Friday nights. Road markings, hay bales, rubber tyres all set up by the council and the cops. They aren't tearing up bitumen in areas, just their tyres the roads are constructed to cope with B doubles. 1 truck = 400 cars in terms of wear and tear.
At Moana, and Aldinga to Sellicks beach the sand is like concrete, so you don't even need a 4x4 and despite all the signs saying keep off the narrow strip of soft deep sand up the back, there is always some clown in a baby monster truck going up and back ploughing the entire length, churning it all up to show off his skills.
The speed limit is 10k's, with little kids with tunnel vision chasing balls as convoys of clueless bogans fly along at about 80k's. with stubby in hand.
One thing I've noticed lately is the number of single young birds driving massive $120k 4x4 beasts, with all the off-road gear and interstate plates, must be influencers or something filming their way around the country.
Dec 2020 Bribie Island erosion worries authorities as wild weather continues to whip the region.
Local business owner Jason Brown, who runs G'Day Adventure Tours, said he "can't remember the last time it was this badly eroded". "There's probably a good five to six metres of beach erosion in some areas that I've seen," . Cars drive near an eroded beach bank at Woorim Beach on Bribie Island.... National Parks review access
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-15/bribie-island-beach-erosion-worri...
Cyclone Seth Jan 2022 Bribie Island breakthrough National Parks & Martime Install monitoring cameras
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-27/bribie-island-changes-could-creat...
Cyclone Alfred 2025 Bribie Island split new entrance channels. Locals want erosion solutions "Then we get the coastal engineers to sit down with their very clever minds and they design how that solution technically needs to be executed — but it's essentially like the A-line seawall down on the Gold Coast."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-03-14/call-for-action-on-bribie-island-...
haven't ever really been able to drive that section north of the now defunct war bunker that was the stop sign / change of councils . prior to parks it was monitored albeit poorly by the old cabo council ranger .
since parks has taken over it has been monitored fairly well in that section north of.
the stop sign has been moved around 3-5km south for a fair while now , after a number of the war bunkers gave way.
From an environmental perspective, I once read that there's more biodiversity contained within a beach ecosystem than in a rainforest.
Doesn't sound right but I'm no scientist.
With that reasoning, we really need to put a limit on beach driving. Otherwise, there'll be nothing there to see that everyone has driven there to see.
Back in the late 90s, I was on the committee of the local environmental organisation.
Studies were coming through then about the effect of 4WDs on invertebrates in the inter-tidal zone but it was considered just too esoteric and niche to use as traction to restrict access etc.
Plus, anyone can see that even shallowly buried pippies/eugaries deal just fine with cars running over them.
I think arguments based on safety, aesthetics, migratory birds and dune stability will have much greater traction.
"Plus, anyone can see that even shallowly buried pippies/eugaries deal just fine with cars running over them."
This flies in the face of the study findings that this article quotes and the studies of which you were privy to back in the 90's.
I have seen first hand these effects on these species and many others including Ghost crabs here on the FNC of NSW....But apparently you know better!!
Surely wrt pipis it's self-evident? Even the most casual beach driver isn't going to accept that as evidence.
Anecdotally, I'm seeing plenty of pipis on some often heavily trafficked beaches this year. Same beaches I've fished for decades. Oyster Catchers are doing pretty well for themselves at the moment. Empty shells cleverly plucked from the sand everywhere.
They don't lie flat under the sand when the tide goes out, the turn upright and wedge themselves in. They handle 4wd traffic pretty well, except for the maybe the morons doing donuts on the lower tides. Evolution couldn't have predicted what a bonus that would be when it came to the future 4wd traffic.
They might get pushed under a little bit further by a car driving over them on the firmer low tide sand but that's about it.
I'm not suggesting the 4wds don't have an impact on other life but I'm sure the pipis will be fine.
Your correct in saying that they lay on their edge, that's how they feed through their siphon tubes. Pushing them further into the sand makes it harder for the siphon tubes to get above the sand-line.
The biggest impact however is on the juvenile population, they tend to occupy a different area of the inter-tidal zone, further up the beach. These little guys aren't quite as robust as the adults and running over them with a 4WD is not good.
With all respect, if you think Pipis aren't effected by 4WD's running over them...ya dreamin'!
A ban on 4wd's and jetskis anywhere near surf breaks would be amazing. Get fit, hike and paddle in.
I concur.
Agreed 100%.
Turbo Barra Patrols, looks a bit West Ozish
Dropping in the Barra Turbo gives big power for the beach, it's the most Australian engine ever built, too.
When covid hit and everything was locked down, the country crew had one outlet to be free. You guessed it, it was 4x4.
Might as well keep digging. When the course of covid became apparent, every female <35 in the region bought a longboard, and every male <25 bought a 4x4 rig. Plagues of both are now apparent.
Ban The 4WD on beaches. While your at it, ban the skis in surf zones. Amazing both have been allowed to become such a shit show.
The ABC ran an article about the study and gave an "equal air time" response to a 4WD club member from Bundy. Their justification for keeping 4WD access was because he and his club members had recently removed 8 tonnes of rubbish from K'Gari and it wouldn't have been possible with forbeys.
I worked for Fraser Coast Regional Council for a decade in waste management and know exactly who left most of that rubbish on the island. Talk about a circular argument!
Oh man. Spent some of the arvo going through the 4x4 yt vids, and what has happened to places like the Tarkine is rough. Walked through there in 2007 and the conservationists we met were all going on about minimal impact, just seen 2.5 ton 4x4s go through bumping on the limiter tearing everything up.
The 4WD defence regarding public access is a furphy. There are very few Crown Lands in Australia that the public is not allowed to access, it's just the means of travel that's restricted.
I used to ride a bicycle across the top of Moreton Island from Bulwer to North Point,
surfboard and all,
It’s not as easy as it sounds !
This all reminds me of the dune buggies back in the 70's they ran amok on the dunes in Victoria hence the ban on driving on beaches here. St Andrews was a wasteland not a skerrick of vegetation, now completely covered.
Ban haul tucks from the road, they eat up the tarmac.
Problem is so much of Straya is largely relatively unfked that it’s easy to gloss over the bits that are… until it’s all uniformly fked. If we stay the course we’ll get there eventually. What are we willing to collectively sacrifice so future generations have something to enjoy?
Yep, what's the bottom line?
How much convenience are we prepared to do away with?
What would we like to see, both realistically and ideally?
Fuck this woke shit can we do anything any more its a fucken beach after every swell
there will be erosion and it all returns to normal. Cant ride you bikes in the bush on
beaches only on private property as well its a giant country with plenty of land and
the fucken daisy these wankers or worried about will grow over there.
The lucky country sure is for the land environment fuck 99% of the people.
You have about 10 years on me Evo. I remember you grumbling at me as a 15yr out the Island (and funnily enough my kid remembers the same thing 25 years later). I remember boat harbour used to have about 5 cars and the dogs/kids could run wild. Now it is a shit show and you wouldn't let a kid or pet run around - they'd get run over. Also used to have many trips up the Mid North with a bit of a drive on the beach and quiet peaks to yourself - the vast majority were pretty in tune with taking care of the environment. Still can get it and I hope it is not lost by a blanket ban. I am concerned this thing is going to be dictated by people who have not had that experience, and who really don't know what they are talking about. These events tend to provoke gross over reactions.
Reckon the increase in cars is more than an event.
Prof T Schlacher demonstrates beyond reasonable doubt the total ignorance of the claim that "its a fucken beach after every swell". https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=yysJAisAAAAJ&hl=en
The matter has nothing to do with "woke shit" not sure where you get that shit from. 4WDs on beaches must be banned and shall be banned. https://www.usc.edu.au/about/unisc-news/news-archive/2025/march/study-ca...
Evo, im sorry mate, no ones happy about it, its a damn inconvenience but this woke shit isn't going away.
A 4x4 driver doesn't have any more rights to a beach than a newborn baby loggerhead does, and if you think the little buggers haven't got it tough enough already, only 1 in 1000 will survive their first days, and that's without the wheel ruts.
I know you DGAS, I'm not trying to change your mind or give you a pious lecture but NASA used 4 satellites to accurately measure sea level and the results are that beaches are now the front line in a war against the expanding oceans.
So give the loggerheads a break, they've got their own real life & death shit to worry about
Evo, Can you please invite 52x 4WDers & dirtbike mates to your place when its wet & and tear up your front yard...?
Then take turns every weekend, chewing up the dirt at each others homes & nature strips for fun.
2000+ species threatened in Australia isnt 'normal'
https://biodiversitycouncil.org.au/news/13-species-were-just-added-to-th...
Yeah, sorry evo, it's not "this woke shit", it's science mate.
No one wants to stop anyone enjoying themselves.
As usual, it's the deadshits who can't pull their heads in that stuff things for the rest of us.
Same old saying, "that's why we can't have nice things".
The bigger problems are typically just behind the dunes.. cleared agricultural land or urban sprawl. Beaches are dynamic, Alfred did more to reshape the beach than any 4WDs. Put efforts into managing it sure but don’t blanket ban. Thats a lose lose.
There's only a couple of beaches in Tassie you can drive your car on and almost every time I've been on one of them (walking), there's been an absolute loser showing off to his mates by tearing up dunes and up into the soft sand despite warnings of nesting birds. Always a bloke, but sadly it can be ages from 17 to 70. On the West Coast you'll have the same group of families who will go out of their way to deliberately rip up millennia old middens cultural sites with their $80k+ 4WD, and when caught will claim they are just happy go lucky battlers, salt of the earth types carrying on important "beach tradtions" (which usually means taking double the crayfish and abalone quota).
It always makes me laugh that many of the pro-4WD access people are quick to call everyone who doesn't want them on the beaches snowflakes or whatever word they are using these days, but if you suggest to them they walk more than 100m and try going to the beach without air-con, fridges, freezers, stereos, 5 inch thick mattresses and five cartons of beer they start frothing at the mouth.
They have really ripped the shit out of that Climies Track.
Huge generalisation to follow. Obviously not 100% of them.
The current generation of 4X4 enthusiasts that lable themselves nature lovers then claim victimisation when people want to protect nature from them are no different to the woke generation they rally against.
When it suits them they play the Aussie bushman conservationist card, wear the clothes demand the access. Meanwhile, head to youtube and watch the vidoes of what they actually do out there. Burn around tracks untill they are so rutted up and muddy they become impassable then keep going to get stuck so they have a reason to winch out and use all the accessories they "need". Thats best case scenario. Give them a second they think no ones watching and they are driving over anything and everything in an instant with heads on a swivel because they don't want to be caught. Catch them and you get the same arguments as above, It's a big country, just having fun etc. It's nothing but the bush version of burnouts in commodores in the Maccas carpark.
Don't get me startd on what the same bush lovers do to animals when they are out camping and "hunting" with mates boozing. Sickening.
Don't get me started on what some of them do off the beaten track regarding fishing and crabbing.
The problem you have with banning beach driving is that car manufacturers won't be able to advertise how to convert your new 4WD into a rust bucket with salt water.
Finger raise apreesh for the 60 owner. .
Sounds like a lot of people in this chat, will be more than happy to move into the smart cities ( if they are not in one already ) give up all their national parks and their freedoms , to save the environment for future generations. But the future generations will be trapped inside the same smart cities watching Youtube clips of what it used to be like to have an adventure and be free .
Occasionally if their social credit score is high enough they will be able to book an excursion on an electric bus to go see the old wild world . Or even better trade in their carbon credits for a trip to Indo ... Hahah just kidding but not really
Freedom?
Stuck in a traffic jam with 200 large 4x4?
I'll manage.
Get off Facebook mate. It's doing you no good.
It's not the cars that are the problem. Some roads require one I get it. Thats not what we are talking about here. Does anyone want their local beach covered in hundreds of them?
The 4X4 crowd for the most part own them because its fun and easy to go and drive over all sorts of stuff, get stuck, winch out and repeat, the worse the road, the steeper the hill the better. Will i make it up that or over that or wont i? I get it, it's fun. I just dont think their fun should come at the cost of what they leave behind. Most aren't in it for the practicallity to go and see the environments these roads provide access too. What they like to do is just thrash the cars around stuff that appears hard to drive over. That's all.
The police have done a decent job at making it harder to be a hoon on the roads in Commodores. Allot of the same people are into 4x4 now. It used to be every dip shit on P's wanted a lowered Commodore of falcon with some rims and a stereo. Now the fashion is big 4x4s, raised, bigger tyres, diesel, turbo mods that blow smoke and make noise, bolt all sorts of shit on it you don't need to drive around the shops. Nothing but the current fashion and deffiance against the electric stuff.
The most common thing you see in moronic anti electric comments used to end with "I'll never sell my Aussie V8", now its I'll never stop driving my diesel 4x4.
Skeg, Can you please invite 52x 4WD'ers & dirtbike 'mates' to your place when its wet & and tear up your front yard...? Then take turns every weekend, chewing up the dirt at each others homes & driveways, for a bit of fun.
Fuck 4wds. I had a brain fart once and went to rainbow beach for the day and fuck me, it was a non stop parade of 4wds. Never again.
Also I live on a roundabout next to the beach and EVERY holiday and weekend there's loud arse 4wds all day long. Just get a kia for fuck sake, save money. 95% of the surf spots on the east coast have easy access and parking.
Also, why do P platers get 4wds now? Back in my day it used to be falcadores or Jap imports if you were rich.
How do they afford them? Personal loans to P Platers for buying a Ute?
Must admit, I was puzzled by the Toyota commercial last year where the wife ends up with her husbands giant ute, that he clearly couldn't pay for and possibly caused their relationship breakdown.
So then he has to beg his wife to drive it ?And that sold another boatload of vehicles ?
weekend or mid week ?
holiday period , long weekend??
I smell rise of the e-bike loophole.....
Fuck I hate e-bikes
Yeah, I can see why they'd be annoying. However 200 E bikes on the beach has to be better than 200 4WDs.
I tell you what, when I can't take my Patrol with the Built Not Bought sticker right up onto the headland at DI or Waddy, I'm getting my e-bike with the fat tyres and I'm taking that fucker wherever I like and no-one's gonna stop me, not Adam Bandt, not National Parks, no one with that woke mind virus shit's gonna tell me what to do.
And why not AndyM! It’s everybody’s right hey! Our neighbour has got 3 kids, ages 9-12, all with e-bikes, they have meetings with their mates every Friday night and all weekend, sometimes the street is full with black themed e-bikes. Combined, there must be 10 of them that get together and take off into open space. Each carries 3, accommodating their freeloader mates as they fang up and down the steep hills around here.
They’re hanging out for a bit of an escape. I'd say those dunes would be perfect territory for them.
Yeah agreed, in Australia it's our right to do what we want.
Dunes are great but that coastal rainforest in the lee of those headlands is much better to put some tracks through, keeps the sun off as well.
I'm going to petition QNPWS to put a chairlift or gondola up to the top of Double Island Point for the bikers, it'd be great to attract some more business to the national parks.
As an aside, I was in Byron a while back and there was a guy on an e-bike doing laps up and down the main beach - that bike was doing 60+ km/h, it was really amazing!
Ha..ha.ha! - Not much else blows you away these days..but those Byron types..wow!!
Would take silent fat tyre ebikes with a board rack over 4x4s towing skis with every accessory they sell at BCF strapped on top. Smoking, noisy, leaking oil and packed with enough snacks and beer for the 5 people inside.
N/NSW + SEQ base access $ Cost rate Rivers / NPs / MPs
Part 1 (Walk on Passenger Access)
Reason for Local tbb sharing this... being Ped / Pass fees can be higher than Vehicle fees.
But also to figure a base cost service fee...if it's possible...tbb feels it is...main reason for Chart!
Just as Vehicles are tagged & timed, so to is each passenger...both timetable record keeping & cost!
First example...
(Free Island Access) Islands that could charge fees but for some unusual reason withhold fees.
Free River Bridge xings that access Conservation / NPs or precincts
Govt's do occasionally provide Free Vehicle / Ped / Boat Access to 100% Isolated Sanctuaries (No Fees!)
31st Aug 2006 GC Jabiru Island centres 2 Bridges off/on ramps to Conservation Island [P] Rest Stop...
Also Free Boat Launch Ramp with exceptional accessible Forested/Boardwalks/Beaches/Playgrounds.
tbb knows the date as he toured his family there on opening day as a treat...very cool & fun!
https://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/Things-to-do/Parks-gardens-reserves/Par...
1975 Bribie Is ended #1 expensive Oz Bridge Toll to grant Free Ped / Vehicle access to 1989 NP Island
Toll cost equalled 1912-60 Bribie Island Ped/Car Ferry Fees (Constant $18 thru time!)
Here we establish an actual true record of Utility Service price to formulate a replacement Vehicle Toll.
If ya think tbb is having a lend...refer to current Island Petition...(Exactly : Reviving Bribie Bridge Toll)
So...Locals will lose 4WD Permits so now petition a throwback Bribie Tourist fee to pay for New Bridge!
Interesting Feature Story...once we establish base level fees it instantly unlocks a Tourist Tax! Wow!
Not 1935 Hornibrook Toll nor 10x more costly 1963 Bribie Toll > 2025 Replacement Bridge Toll!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/BribieIsland/posts/4846129042279810/
1980 Reclaimed Bne River POB Fisherman Islands (Precinct Bridge)
https://www.portbris.com.au/about/history
tbb believes this is last remaining Bne Precinct without a Toll, surprise to all...Hiding in Plain Sight!
Just these 3 entry examples alone highlight the Complexity & War on contrived Free Island Access.
Sometimes these Local truths are stranger than fiction..Huh...tbb never expected any of these games.
Cross River Ferries (Many of these are essentially subsidised Transport Links)
Richmond River / Brisbane River (Moggill) Offer Free Ped / Bicycle Ferry Xings
Brisbane River CBD / SMBI : Currently offers 50c Ferry Xings / Links
SMBI = Southern Moreton Bay Islands
360 Moreton Bay Islands >SMBI Reads as True Central MB Islands with North Straddie
South Straddie in Southern Moreton Bay > Reads GC Broadwater Southern Islands / Creeks
Finish this group with Sunny Coast > Noosa Cross River Ferry $1
This ends the Subsidized Ferry Xing Fees...
Locks ( Boats entering / exiting Natural Rivers ) Freshwater < > Salt (or) Sea Level Height
Continuing deep South Moreton Bay in Nerang River < > Freshwater Lakes (Auto Lock)
Gold Coast run set fees for most Locks thru-out Waterways / Canals ( Salt / Fresh )
Daily rtn fee = $38 or $ 19 access ( Note how familiar & how often this $20 River access fee!)
This Next Group are hard Slog back'n'forth Pass Ferry return fares with no Subsidies (True Cost!)
Research affords tbb to share actual Private SMBI Ferry Surcharge = $20 Rtn (See above $18)
Meaning Sealink as Whole River/Bay Contractor of SEQ Ferries > Actual default Cost > (No Go Card)
We can example this further with more Southern Gold Coast Hopo Ferry Service
Short Hop = $10 ( 1 zone) Rtn = $20 (2 Zones)
2hrs Sightseeing = $40 or $20/hr
Clarence Cross River Ferry = $24 rtn for Day Trippers / Tourists
N/S Stradbroke ( Neither of which is Translink Subsidised ) = $24rtn
Pause.....................................................................................................................................................................................
All see Chart establish a timeless base River Service rate Qld /NSW 1912-2025 = $18-$25 rtn /hr fee.
That there is the raw cost to service & pilot / patrol access to popular X River Bay Islands.
Before we move on...tbb will verify / Check this price with Base Group Cost of Next Remote Islands...
( Forward to Group Pricing base Rate...Double Check! )
Min 12x Group spend of $300 All access Captained Taxi Style Vessel Hire = $25/pass Whole Bay Ok!
This turns out to be a no brainer...Lock in base $25 hr / rtn a local en-route to other Islands / Marinas.
Now it does afford for up to 5 Locations / 5 Hrs but no marina affords instant access > A-B return mostly!
We know this coz most photos are of a Pissed Passengers swanning about...salute if they disembark once!
$18-$25 hrly rtn timetable is tabulated every which way conceived in above Local river boating.
Central lesser frequented / less accessible more conserved Islands present a more moderate risk.
Ok! As surfers...all know we're upping the game now...cost is relative to risk.
Lone en-route Idle on board / Pick Up easy access Broadwater Sand Bank Island fee = $55 rtn
Group Activity / Excursion / Utilities = Anchor & embark onto Wave break Island = $70 rtn
In this case a busy waterway surrounds Island so regulated / Shared time delay is factored in also!
Central Moreton Bay Isolated Sanctuaries & Dugong Reserves
Again...Sailing thru Busy Commercial Shipping Lanes to central desolate grave refuges.
Sail craft to King / St Helena / Green / Mud / Peel Islands = $80 rtn > Off season / w/e $120 rtn
Surfing a Cat thru the Bay...if chop gets rough as it does...It's $120 mate...(See Ocean peak price..next!)
Protected NP / WH / MP Wild Sanctuaries with limited Access & Security (The Outliers)
K'gari Island = $80 rtn (Short run > Massive Remote WH Wild Island)
Moreton Island = $90 rtn (Longest choppy Bay run > Massive Remote Island!)
Mudjimba Island = $90 rtn (Short run in heavy Ocean chop nearing Island surrounded by Surf Reef)
Julian Rocks = $110 rtn (Short run off part protected Wild Cape Rock outcrop Wash)
Cook Island = $120 rtn (Long Haul with Full Island Swells > Expect cancellations!)
This Table charts exact base costing per person as any surfer here would expect to pay...
Happy to share Equal Access to SEQ < > N/NSW National Parks / Marine Parks / World Heritage.
Establishing these fees accurately reflects reality of Marine Park access...
tbb has laid out where & why some popular essential fees are subsidized for flow of passengers!
Others pegged at Municipal Auto Turnstyle freedom but all are recorded.
One assumes to keep busy choke points flowing...marine safety is paramount...
Surfboard access can be free or is often charged at min 10% > 30% extra.
Many of these fees are for smaller more affordable vessels ...expect a rough ride to any surf breaks.
Most ocean vessels here service groups of inshore snorkelers ...crew would need to check for Surfing!
Can assure all were viewed as being up to the task promised.
All see this review is heavily timetabled, less so dependant on seasonal recreation.
Seasonal numbers will impact on unrestricted drive market...
tbb promises to clarify an obvious anomaly staring back at us that all dance around...sort that easy!
One of those...everyone is right situations...how is it possible that none are wrong! Shh! It's true!
As here tbb don't decide on the chart > it shapes itself to decide it's own relevance!
Actually keeps changing as it's own flexible entity... tbb simply responds...new to all it is!
Admittedly tbb has 20-30 year back history on integrating Moreton Bay Transit for Govt submissions.
Clear that this chart outed a few surprises & locks in a base Tourist rate for each person / access!
Exampling this as best document for Bribie Crew to set Bridge Toll price relevant to their Island!
Instead of plucking one from thin air for no reason with no verification.
Plenty of exampled choices here more than anywhere! Happy to Share...freely to all!
We all wanna get to the bottom of this...if we can...none like what they see & all said so...
So we local surfers / beach goers are best placed to sort out blowins...don't need Top Down heavies!
Part 2 will further investigate Vehicle access / Fees / Permits / Concessions
Again to cross reference any anomaly for reasons for overcrowded beach access.
My grandads vehicle of choice for the beach was a VW beetle. Low tyre pressure, he’d get to all the best gutters on a very soft MNC beach, have pics of him with tailor the size of kings
No relevance to this discussion but time on beach was fun back in the day
Where i am - Council charge for a beach pass. There will be lost revenue if Council were toclose beach access- from beach pass sales and fines. Similar to DI- there a specific conditions when there is very heavy traffic. Rangers do come down at those times to fine people without a pass. 15-20 years ago was very quite, now can get 200 cars on beach when good.
Personally i would be happy if they closed beach access and walk in. Get them old bones warmed up before surfing. I know that the natural resources section of council would like to close- but suspect others see the revenue as easy money.
Chief Seattle, a nineteenth-century leader of the Pacific Northwest native American tribe, the Duwamish, speaking about people's explorations of his native lands, is often credited with having said, “Take only memories and leave only footprints.”
Could be worth revisiting the writings one of Swellnet's favourite sons -
"We are the worse species on the planet, we drain river deltas and lakes, we divert rivers and other watercourses , we dam major rivers, we use the ocean as a supermarket and a rubbish tip, we’ve reduced school fish to a mere existence, we’ve incorporated plastics into biological and geological entities, we’ve polluted all levels of our atmosphere, we foolishly want to set up life on other planets, we are melting ice caps, extinction rates are at extremes … surely enough is enough.
How about we think about all the other living species on earth, they’ve a right to an existence also. Fed up with short term planning and short memories."
So how much of a hit are we prepared to take to our "right" to drive on the beach?
AndyM never been on a beach in a 4 wd surfing or fishing ??
Of course I have but my question is sincere.
What is an acceptable approach to dealing with what we're seeing?
I've outlined my thoughts elsewhere and I reckon they're pretty reasonable, easily achievable and would give a lot of positive change for very little impact on the way things are currently.
What do you reckon?
*Edit*
So you don't have to search for it, this is what I wrote earlier -
"my fundamental recommendation would be to ban 4WDs from beaches that are reasonably accessible by foot or bike (e-bikes prohibited).
This would include 7 Mile Beach at Lennox, and north-facing beaches on North Stradbroke Island (Flinders Beach), Moreton Island and at Double Island Point between Rainbow Beach and DI itself.
Also, on Fraser, access north of Ngkala would be restricted and that north end would be a wilderness area. And no beach driving allowed to the east of the access onto the beach at Waddy Point and maybe Indian Head.
So essentially the relatively small sheltered beaches in the lee of those epic headlands would be vehicle-free while still allowing general access."
aah ok sorry mate ,
foe WIW, i do think they should limit the amount of traffic on beaches a bit , a blanket ban is ridiculous IMO.
I do think the (Bogans) make it a lot worse for the people who actually do the right thing on the beaches,
had some of the best times of my life holidaying on the se qld islands, as a young fella with my parents and siblings.
i'd love to do the same with mine now.
All my life, I’ve despised cars on the beach.
First witnessed it in WA in 1984 as a 19 year old, it felt disgusting.
Moreover, as our crew of the Bob Hawke Surf Team went from surf town to surf breaks from Albany to Broome, we continually arrived at places where cars had driven down onto the beach, most guilty were the greedy fishermen, mostly from Perth who at certain times of the year make a self instructed mission to a beach near you, to fish it to death .
The endless line of 4WD vehicles all side by side sometimes more than 100, all with refrigeration trailers, exhibiting gluttonous behaviour by loading hundreds of kilograms of fish, these units were full to the brim.
Once full, drive back to Perth, brag about the voluminous species and numbers caught, big Aussie heroes.
The oceanic supermarket in full swing.
Us guys were gobsmacked, nobody back in Victoria drove on beaches and still to this day, it’s a rarity to see a vehicle, maybe in an emergency at times.
WA, QLD are the two guiltiest parties with SA following close behind, the behaviour and sheer numbers of cars on that Limestone Coast, say, Millicent, Robe, Beachport is totally disgusting.
Cars have conquered almost every region on earth, we design and build towns, cities and metropolis around them.
The car rules.
So, one of the last bastions of refugia for animals at least at sea level is the beach and its shoreline, is it way too much to ask ourselves as an animal species to attempt to keep cars out, piss cars off all together from beaches globally.
Here are the reasons why, vehicles leak or exude petroleum based products onto the sand, all levels of a beach from the littoral zone right up to primary dune scrub or even to the base of cliffs or rocky points have varying degrees of invertebrates, molluscs, plant life, vertebrates, birds construct nests, brood eggs and chicks, reptiles, including turtles make their way to dig huge holes and lay eggs.
Erosion and the corruption of immobile and mobile dunes changes some beaches geomorphology .
Beaches are defence zones to terrestrial life, they get destroyed by big wave and tide action but the very essence of destruction then protects us and animals from greater wave action. Very quickly, beaches reassemble themselves and become a barrier once again,
We need to stop interfering with natural systems by pissing of all manner of vehicles.
And by the way, nobody has a right to drive on a beach, nobody. AW
Spot on mate. Fuck em all off.
'cept me.
Round here where vehicle access has been banned and you have to walk in, crowds have pretty much evaporated. Even a 15min walk is enough to put 95% of the punters off. If you're a surfer, you hate crowds, and don't mind a bit of a walk or bike ride, then banning 4WDs would be an absolute game changer for a lot of spots. If sharing the beach with 200 other munters in 4WDs is something you enjoy then, yeah, advocate for that scenario.
anyone remember a low-fi surf video in the 80s that had a POV shot of driving down a tree-lined track to the beach with taj mahal's fishin' blues playing? (the bit from 1:45 was the specific bit, I recognise the raspy 'many fish bites if you got good bait' bit)
people in this thread that disagree with the 4wd's need to be banned or heavily limited are w*nkers
wavie, wavie washed up against the shore. Who would've believed it? No wave no more.
In its wake, the sand was cleansed by its pure salinity, leaving only the suggestion of its natural life of wonders and awe in perpetuity.
Oz Access (Base Cost) NP / MP / Islands
Part 2 (Accredited Groups (Vehicular Access)
All those seeking Refuge with their Flosam & Jetsam wash up upon Pristine Sandy Shores
Whalers > Bryants > Flinders > TOL > Fraser all washed up around these Islands.
First Group : Full Accreditation K'gari ( Free Transit / Accom / Services)
Govt Work Crews / Refuge
1843 Bayside Kauri Rafters > 1905-36 (3x Timber Horse + Steam Tram Networks to Jetty Barges)
1969 100-200 Large Wheel 2WDs
1970 4WD Ferries = 5k Forestry > 1971 =10k Sand Mining > 1974 FODO Light Rail again Proposed
Post industrial WH Tourist Haven Kgari
1985 End Sand Mining > Start of Public 4WD Permit Scheme (Read intro > Sand Mining)
1991 End Logging > 1992 WH Listing 29k 4WD Permits / 211k Visitors
2003 41k 4WD Permits / 345k Visitors (50 buses + 40% of WH budget Vehicle Access)
2023 67k 4WD Permits / 500k Visitors + 337k Camp o/n
Over 120 years the Trax have cut 1.5m down into the Island (30 years =150mm loss of Sand)
150mm / 30 years = Base measure of Beach Sand loss @ Choke points on SEQ 4WD Beaches
Each 4WD Sluices about 1 tonne of Sand
Refuge Centres afford similar short term [P] /Accom / Utilities / Meals / First Aid / Policing
Recharge Stations are similar run on Aux Power > Less suited to Long term o/n stays.
24hr Rest / Driver Reviver Stops exist in Oz but some States Prohibit o/n sleeping o/n in your Car.
Fed Law allows 24hr o/n in Cars but Road Laws are State based.
Tourist City Chambers of Commerce campaign against any 2hr Rest Areas in their City..
Gold Coast removed [M1] + h/way & Privatized 15min move on [P] @ BP / Maccas Roadhouses
2000 Gold Coast 2010 Brisbane then Qld banned o/n Stays in Vehicles...
There is just one remaining 23hr Rest Stop in Qld > You must move your Car each day...LAW!
https://lawpath.com.au/blog/is-it-legal-to-sleep-in-your-car#:~:text=The....
NT camping in a Public Place is Discouraged.
Vic is fine but one or two Beachside tourist Councils Geelong / Surf Coast will ban & fine you
NSW are fine but North Coast Tourist Cities > Byron / Tweed will move you on & fine you.
SA / WA / Tas / ACT are Ok with you sleeping o/n in rest areas...But > Check Beachside Councils...
As said it's beachside Councils that will move you on...especially in Tourist Beach Car Parks...
Tourist Councils de-main roads so they can resume State Rest Areas then Close > Privatize them.
eg: GC closed #1 Rest Area > lease it out as Indy / Events Marshalling Zone
Also slowly de-maining The Point [P] Look Out > Lease it out as Millionaire's Exclusive Front Yard
They even go so far as to exclude former rest areas off Google Maps.. steal & hide them from Qldurrz!
Just exampling how your City / Town will de main roads > to steal your 2hr Rest Areas as ours...Gone!
Group 2 : Traditional Lands > Local Resident Accredited Part Concession
Trad' Owners > Full reserve access for self resourcing (Restricted / Subsidised Housing)
Local Civic Service providers or Island Residents (Mostly)
Substantial 90% Transit reduction / Rego Credits > Boating / Vehicles + (Power / Water buy in schemes)
Also exemptions on Certification Bycatches / Checks offset by Restrictive Priority Mainland Services.
Govt accesses each application on own merits...No blanketed Concession Table to speak of...Ok!
Prices are offset as to not attract a horde of City Dwellers to invade the Islands.
*More on Groups 1/2 below in differing Visitor Permits / Pricing allocated to cap each Island's Quota!
Group 3 Resource Accreditation (Individual accreditation via Resource Network)
Licensed Regional Fisherman & Farmers
Tweed permits Licensed Net Fisherman access to Beach Precincts but restricted on Private Sand Leases.
Local Hodads from 1970's may recall often being kicked outta the Cudgen Surf Reefs / Car Park.
Cudgen Bridge ran into disrepair & forced the longer Route back Round...not Much fun...
10th June 2024 (Close) Clarence River Free Ulmarra Car Barge Subsidized for North Coast Farmers
https://www.clarenceconversations.com.au/proposed-public-monuments-ulmar....
Parramatta / Wisemans Ferry/s are still free for all Vehicle Loads
https://wisemans.org.au/the-ferry-at-wisemans-ferry-and-webbs-creek/
In closing...
Many Trad / locals are offered exemptions to meet obvious Resourcing / Hospital / Education needs.
.............................................................................................................................................................................................
Highly Restricted Beach Bans...
Extend from Mining Leases > ADF / Emergency Beach Protection ( Related Services Only)
1887 Gold Coast Surf Resorts Beach Buggy
1940-50's Gold Coast WW II / US + Sandmining Beach Bans > Vehicles / Horses
1968 Cyclone Emergency ADF Executive Emergency Beach Protection Act
https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/view/pdf/2002-12-13/act-1968-017#:~:t...
1972 Land Conservation Vehicle Control Act ( Prohibits Vehicle access to Coastal Marine Beaches)
https://www.parks.vic.gov.au/media-releases/2022/03/28/04/37/fishers-pro...
Exact same bans apply to other Military Seaports / Firing Range...
Yes! Govt could & have defused Bombs on The Spit or Land a Derigable & does
100 years of WR Cars racing Planes on same Beach as Theme Park Lions swim in the Surf.
Emergency Law grants Mayoral Flexi Power Leases over all Beaches > Pay 2 Play
One main rule being > Each Film Unit leasing must Restore Beach to Former Glory
Hi-Rise Sand Quarry < > Asbestos Filled Dumps covered in Sand (Passes the Pub Test)
Council Lifeguard 4WD trax are Beach Tractor graded smooth the next morning
Beach Volleyball / Cooly Gigs > Dunes Restored in good time...not really!
Cyclone Ravaged Escarpments > Instantly restored > 40K Beach Grog Concert/s will foot the bill!
Magic Millions Beach Gallop / Air Show shut Beach and Surf for Kms > Animals flee anywhere!
Airshow Fleet herd Whale Migration inshore > Bombard from above for $400 Swim with Whale selfies!
Rort the same Bomb'n' bash a Whale Tickets at Huntington US Airshow...none say a word!
But as said...No other local 4WD is allowed near GC beaches since 1910-50's WR Drag Racing Meets!
Hodad crew would have dealt with the Sand Mining Mobsters denying access to beaches
Kingfisher > Tangalooma > Couran > Mirage > Pavilion > Salt > Casuarina all feature in News Titles.
Forever staking out their Exclusive Above the Law Claims over Oz beaches.
Part 3 Open Access (Pricing)
Oz / States 4WD Rego Permits for Beaches
GC 1968 (ban) Vic 1972 (ban) > WA 1978 NSW 1983 SA 1993 Qld 1995 Tas 1999 NT Open
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National Parks Access (Includes 4WD to Marine Parks)
Crew may recall that only recently a Driver could toss a donation into NP Poor Toll Boxes (Not Now)
Thru Covid > Many Oz State NPs installed Number Plate Cams...(eg) This is coming on fast!
Visitors NP Fees / Beach Fees
Vic NP's are still 100% free...(But see 4wd Bans) Free but No driving on any Beaches (Trade Off!)
SA $54 (2 months) +
Beach Visitors Permits 2023 $8 > 2024 $12 Aldinga / Moana / Sellicks / Silver Sands
https://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/lifestyle/the-moneygrabbing-new-fe...
$18.50 Ocean Beach
3rd Feb Yorke Peninsula Restrictions
https://www.drive.com.au/news/south-australia-to-restrict-vehicle-access...
SA is changing fast > Intro NP / 4WD Fees + Restrictions
NT $10 Day > $30 (2wks) > $60 year + See Aboriginal Reserve Restrictions + No o/n Sleep in cars!
Again...Low Fees > But It's a Trade off...must sleep in Accom or be Fined!
WA $35.53 month (Peak $70) > $ $65.98 (Peak $130) Calls for 4WD Fees
Aug 2023 Calls for Lancelin Dune Erosion Ban
https://au.news.yahoo.com/lancelin-locals-erupt-council-plan-to-ban-beac...
March 2024 Preston Beach Fees ( To Clean 4WD Beach Dumps)
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-03/preston-beach-4wd-access-payment/...
https://www.harveyreporter.com.au/news/south-western-times/preston-beach...
Feb 2025 Denmark "No Off Road Activity" Bushfire Risk Periods
https://www.yourdenmark.wa.gov.au/be-bush-fire-ready/news_feed/harvest-a...
WA is much like SA > Expect higher NP Fees > But also 4WD Restrictions
Tas $46 (2 months) + Bruny Island Ferry $53 Rtn
2016 tbb toured here > Toss Coins into NP box > Now Number Plate NP Tolls...
But again...it covers yer free o/n Rest Areas...another Trade off.
NSW $65 Year NP Multi Pass > Low cost is covered by 4WD Permits / o/n Fines
+ (See individual Regions Beach Permits)
Lowest > Highest priced 4WD Beach Permits (As Listed)
Tweed > Byron Tourist Towns forbid 4WDs + o/n Sleeping in Cars ( re: GC)
Stockton $33 /3 days > $88 /yr
Belmont $33 /wk > $100 /yr Conc $44 /yr
Clarence $35 /mth > $50 / 6mths > $100 /yr + Conc 20%
Mid North $36 /mth > $72 / 6mths + Conc 50%
Nambucca $40 /mth > $80 /yr
Mid Coast....................> $100 /yr + Conc 50%
Cronulla $40.50 access > $185 / 6 mths
Ballina $96 /6mth > $166 /yr
Qld > No NP Fees but Hefty o/n Fines + Expensive 4WD Ferries / Permits...(Trade off!)
Lowest > Highest 4WD Permits
GC 4WD Ban > South Straddie ( Car Ferry $2,250) Reflects Fines for (Actual Private Removal Cost!)
North Qld > No Charge on 4WD Beaches > offset by Camping obligation.
There are some changes & Bans / Restrictions in the News > Turtle Hatching Season.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/drivers-banned-from-popular-4wd-beach-after-re...
Bribie Is ( Bridge ) Offset by banning Day + Cheap Mth Permits for (Costly $55.50/wkly + $173.30 /yr)
2022 = 39,000 Permits (Peak) 2023 = 37,124 Permits > 2024 = Numbers Dropping > New Govt n/a
Peak month Jan 2023 = 3,559 /wk + 1,928 / yr ( Daily passes would Flood Visitors to Bridged Island)
(Above Feature) None actually Reference 1,000 / 4WD Visiting / day
Read carefully > ALL / Police state that 1,000 / 4WD are on the beach on any given Peak day...
eg : Oz day Long w/e = Just 350/day accounts for 1,000 on beach each day...Should answer anomaly!
As tbb said...all are right...can & was counted by Police > Number Plates (Stay w/e on The Island )
https://mypolice.qld.gov.au/moreton/2025/01/31/bribie-island-australia-d....
Say 1,000's accessed Ocean Beach = 100 year Old Bribie Saying > 1926 1,000's of regular Visitors
1933 Bribie Island Population 100 Residents counted 1 million Visitors
Then counted by packed SS Koopa 2/3 wkly 1,600 passengers then later by bridge toll...
1963 > 14,000 cars / wk paid $18 rtn = $240k / wk Total to replace same SS Koopa + Car Ferry rtn.
12 years ended > Enough to build a new Bridge...Locals wanna ban 4WD but charge New Bridge Toll!
Cooloola Permit is likewise Capped by tiny North Shore Ferry $30 rtn access
$14.40 / day > $36.75 /wk > $57.80 / mth > $291 /yr
Bne > Double Island Point visitors = $44.40 /day
Govt would sell Day Tickets & laugh as Drivers realize they gotta Queue & pay $30 rtn Ferry...durr!
Even if ya went the long way around thru Rainbow Beach > No Guaranteed access back to DIP.
Kinda like Fools Gold...Ferry caps 8x 4WDs + Trailers are restricted to lower tide alignment
See many Cars Queued with no boats on trailers...Unsure if Boats hitch mid outer side of Barge...
Then car reverses down aligned Slipway to re-hitch Boats onto trailers ...sure seems like that...
A lot more than meets the eye here...this looks like a major shit show to cross with boat at High Tide!
Prices indicate a Mass Convoy but this Noosa Ferry is highly restrictive upon mass Beach transit.
Total Permits 2020 = 90,838 > 2021 = 124,700 > 2022 = 88,453 > 2023 = 95,561
1 May 2024 Parliamentary request for Permits July 2021-April 2024.
https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tableoffice/questionsanswers/202...
North Straddie
$57.80 /mth > $173.30 /yr Capped by ban on Daily / Wkly Permits
4WD Visitors are capped again by expensive Vehicle Ferry $300 rtn
Crew can read a minimum $ 357.80 for a day's 4WD outing on North Stradie...Huh!
Locals get discounts (See Above) The idea being to buy into Accom Packs!
Again Camp Sites are capped to suit Local Seasons...Island has High Risk 4WD trax
Moreton Island
$57.80 /mth > $291 /yr Capped by ban on Daily / Wkly Permits
4WD Visitors are capped again by expensive reduced Ferry Timetable $250 rtn
$307.80 min / day visit > But Govt also Ban Access over Local's Easter / School Holidays
Island is further restricted by Tangalooma / Dolphin Feed times + High Risk 4WD trax ...etc...
Both these Islands have restricted tide access for 4WDs.
WH Kgari (Continued from Restricted Access to Public Pricing)
$57.80 /mth > $291 /yr Capped by ban on Daily / Weekly Permits
4WD Visitors are again capped by Expensive Ferry $ 140 rtn via Inskip > $ 246 rtn via Resort Ferry.
Premium Oz 4WD Ferry Fares / km
3kms Bruny Island $53.20 rtn
7kms Kgari $246 rtn
10kms Port Phillip Bay $156 rtn
12kms South Straddie $2,250rtn (Barge 5 hr minimum hire!)
25kms North Straddie $300 rtn
40kms Moreton Island $250 rtn
60kms Spencer Gulf $396 rtn
Oz 4WD News seems to be changing quite fast...More NP / Beach Permits + More Beach Restrictions
During this research > there are some other obvious Vehicle Logistics dictating overcrowding.
Examples of tides narrowing Beach Width trapping many beneath steep Dune Slope Tracks.
Meaning > a lack of high tide beach run up to attack steep trax set on right angles to Beach...
Very dangerous challenge awaits each driver...forcing these Traffic Jams!
tbb has measured out these base logistics needed to negotiate these Islands...
Roughly a 60m wide Turning allowance for Access to Ferries / Hill Trax / Features.
tbb don't get to decide that...the Google Earth Images Imprint this into the Matrix...that simple!
Of interest is 60m is built into corresponding land form but as soon as get onto the Islands...Well!
Seems like ya all of a sudden get by on ha measures because half the beach is missing...
So should we just be honest...it's only half as safe...Shh!
But logistics of Islands can only afford 10-40 metres...these imprinted 60m trax are a rare luxury!
Thus trapping drivers approx 80% of the time to cause more damage to Vehicles and Islands.
A Simple pragmatic Drive tutorial would expose dangerous High Risk points that command attention.
In other words...
Motion for 4WD Club experts to impossibly lay out & Guarantee a safe Drive Circuit for all passengers.
Being perfectly honest to rule out any / all dodgy high risk points...there won't be much course left!
Until that first Pub Test can be accomplished the Govt should refrain from risking Driver's lives...
tbb doubts very much these high risk 4WD Island Circuits pass the Pub Test...be shocked if they did!