First Hollow Wooden Board Surfed In A WSL Heat
In what is apparently a historic first, a surfer used a hollow wooden board in a WSL heat. Not a longboard either, but a performance shortboard for the Euro leg of the Qualifying Series.
At the recent Santa Cruz Pro in Portugal, 31-year old Caina Souza from Baía da Traição in Brazil, surfed a chambered hollow wooden board made by Bosiny Surf, also of Santa Cruz.
Curently rated 134th on the QS, Souza paddled out for his Round of 112 heat on the board, garnering a 7.07 heat total and a second place finish. Advancing to the Round of 96, Souza could only find 3.97 and was bundled out of the contest. It's not known if he also surfed the board in that heat.
Yesterday, the final of the Santa Cruz Pro was won by French surfer Marco Mignot.
High performance boards that use wood veneer often layer it over an EPS blank. Bosiny, however, eschew the blank and go for the classic toothpick construction of a chambered wooden frame. They're not entirely doing away with chemicals as the frame is covered by a kevlar top skin - yes, kevlar - and a layer of 4oz fibreglass.
Bosiny claim their boards are "impossible" to snap even though they are of comparable weight to a stanard PU shorty - 32 litres - 3.4 kilograms.
Comments
That's pretty amazing.
Indeed, to use a toothpick construction of a chambered wooden frame, kevlar top skin, a layer of 4oz fibreglass and achieve a comparable weight to a standard PU shorty - 32 litres - 3.4 kilograms. Impressive. Would be great to hold and check it out
this is rad and obviously hugely important for adoption of alternative (relatively eco) materials in surfboards. rather than weight being the biggest issue, i would have thought the lack of that flexy spring-back you get in a standard construction would stifle your turns but those pics (esp that second one) kinda throw my thoughts out the window.
Not cheap at £1245, but look great
If you add up the cost of all the creased and snapped boards over 10 years, it may be cheaper & sustainable to buy a stronger board.
I can see why they use kevlar, you wouldn't want to get a hole and sink.
Handy if there's an active shooter in the line up too.
hahaha, dark
It happens, trust me. I'm trying to avoid fiberglass and be wood only. Out at Racecourse last week, started filling up after a crack developed, then the extra weight snapped the leg rope. Weight vs strength is definitely the issue with woodies. Will have to put 4oz glass on the tail to repair the hole. Usual repair in the workshop is cut out a section, reinforce and glue in a small panel. Don't have all the tools in the caravan, We're doing "The Endless Winter" ;)
Didn't Salomon do hollow carbon boards back in the 90s that if dinged would fill up with water.........pretty funny but not if your still attached to it
Snap Resistance:
Our boards are believed to be around 5 times more resistant when compared to PU surfboards. This is due to the incredibly strong torsion box principle used in their construction. This coupled with solid wood rails and Paulownia/Kevlar/fibreglass composite skins, makes for a formidably strong composition. So much so we offer a replacement surfboard for anyone who manages to snap theirs surfing free of charge.
In comparison: yatchs are hollow; use Okoume timber ply, fibreglass & epoxy outershell, then vacuum bagged.... or carbonfibre sheets & honeycomb & epoxy shell....then cooked. Only takes 2 yrs to build & cost $20M Euros
How cool is that
Thats awesome. there was a guy in Canada who was sponsored by a wooden surfboard company, dont know if he went in competitions but surfed very well and was in a few clips online. I love wooden boards but they are very time intensive, thus expensive. They ride very smoothly and retain more speed. Feel awesome in clean waves. they do have a different flex though, stiffer.
I've often wondered if there's any realistic place for the WSL to initiate things like this through their contests. Similar to F1, they restrict what materials can and can't be used, with the enforced R&D advancing new technology quicker than it otherwise would.
Did F1 teams and fans revolt when new engine and fuel regulations were put in place? Complain that they were hindering performance? Curious to know.
F1 fans, and drivers/participants are still complaining about the hybrid engine package, for sure. The manufacturer's wanted it to greenwash their participation, and loosely mirror the turbocharging & electrification of their road cars (even tho they are nothing alike) The performance is fine, just the whole experience/entertainment suffered massively.
Is foam the bad-for-environment element of surfboards? Resin? That they're unrecyclable? These boards simply replace that one element.
Thanks.
Foam isn't the only bad material in your board - resin and fibreglass are equally toxic.
Thank fuck for wooden stringers, hey!
Taking the foam out isn't greening the whole board, just one part of it.
Although the foam and the resins are definitely bad for the environment (and the shaper/glasser), the main benefit in timber boards, Le_R, is durability. If they're used for longer, and therefore aren't being discarded like the flimsy, almost "single-use", standard construction throwaway boards that crowd the racks of surf shops, then the surfer's footprint is smaller.
I have two Danny Hess timber boards in my quiver: one of those is 14 years old and still in near-perfect condition, despite being surfed in all kinds of waves, all of the time. The other is 11 years old and looks brand-new. It's no exaggeration to think that I could expect 30+ years of life from these boards. (I'll be handing them down to the kids, for sure.) They ride really well, too, given the natural flex patterns and inherent ability of timber to make it through dead sections. Given one a go if you get the opportunity. Dan Malloy rips on one in proper waves in that surf flick, "The Present".
I'd like to try/maybe even make a chambered paulownia board, for sure. I think they look great..though the weight does sound high. I've got a timber-veneered EPS board that does have some durability issues but is super light and works good.
Maybe I safety surf or something, but my PU quiver holds up just fine, pressure dings aside.
I'm all for seeking more sustainable...everything, but if the performance of the object suffers...the whole point and purpose of the object comes into question.
It's also perhaps not the highest of ecological challenges facing the globe...tho that shouldn't stop the experimenting. Some kind of additive-manufactured nano-cellulose honeycomb matrix deal could be an avenue for investigation, but the economics have to work too.
Did a chambered paulownia board with my son - turned out a bit heavy, seems to love getting into the pocket and staying there, lots of momentum. Seems to lose the weight once immersed and you are sitting on it.
V8 supercars race was created, avoiding competition with Mazda's rotary turbo engines in the RX7...
https://www.mazda.com.au/mazda-news/the-mazda-rotary-engine/
Interesting narrative to compare with F1 or Motorsport in general. They have so many levers to pull with regards to shaking things up, and often do. However the commentary around fan engagement, in F1s case a significant increase isn’t due to performance or product dev based changes but more so effective marketing. The died in the wool fan base has limited leverage / influence vs $$$$
Sound sorta familiar except for the opposite outcome
All the strike missions going on would have a huge carbon foot print.
Surf travel in 60's-80's was about using your ticket to it's full year expiry. We would spend years away from home, instead of flying all over the world continuously.
Well done to these guys. So is the kevlar directly over the frame with timber over the kevlar?
Or is it more like I picture it, timber deck over frame and kevlar over timber deck then a layer of 4oz over the kevlar for easy sanding?
Question answered:
https://www.bosinysurf.com/pages/technology
Posted this story on Swellnet's FB page, got this comment:
ha ha i saw that, im against wokeness more than anyone, but that was a weird comment.
mwhahahaha don't tell anyone but I made the resin out of fermented mung beans
Paulownia grows so fast & is so light, that the only thing limiting it being widespread.... is the wind damage to the plantations.
Oz Paulownia surfboard manufacturer
https://sinesurf.com/pages/technology-1
flowers smell beautiful too.
brought a few back from over east in '97, they grew huge
Having built boards for over 30 years I know one technology which should be banned , Expanded Polystyrene Foam . Wrap it in whatever laminate you want and eventually it will end up dead . Our experience is within 12 months .
This shit should not be considered better for the enviroment . As soon as it has a void , anything from a hairline crack around the fin boxes to an open ding , it starts to soak up the water like a kitchen sponge.
If you want a more enviromentally sustainable board , just get a polyurethane blank and get that glassed in epoxy , you wont regret it .
Also, EPS is sometimes championed, not for its performance, but for its enviro credentials - it can be recycled.
However, when the EPS Packaging Covenant kicked in (2021 I think) the yearly market amount was 23,000 tonnes, with just 4,000 tonnes being recycled. So less than a fifth. Not enough pick up spots was the main complaint.
Surfboard blanks were exempt from the covenant, however as they're wrapped in laminate I'd imagine an even smaller percentage would be recycled.
Terrible stuff in landfill too, it's mostly air so takes up a large amount of space for its weight, and if it does get crushed it ends up in small, lightweight, visible pieces that take centuries to breakdown.
Stu , what does my head in is the number of people ditching PU blank tech when if glassed well can last 5 times as long as EPS .
I have cut open so many EPS trashed boards and you can trace where the water gets in and the subsequent fail of the overall construction . Its open cell foam . Extruded Polystyrene has the ability to stop linear transmission of water but other inherent issues .
So when you weigh up mass production of surfboards and have an in depth look at how they fail , its no wonder PU is still around.
I agree with it's inferiority in composite sandwich construction. Particularly in the densities often used. PU+Epoxy way mo betta
Apparently, Ethan was riding a PU + epoxy in the WSL finals
+ another for PU and epoxy
What do you mean by dead?
That doesn't make any sense at all and is not backed by science its actually the exact opposite.
While EPS boards dont have the feel of a PU/PE board that most surfers love, EPS board's have a much much longer lifespan in feeling fresh and lively.
Quite simply because EPS foam has very good memory every time it flexes it bounces back to its shape, while polystyrene foam is the exact opposite every-time it flexes little beads get crushed.
The extreme example of this is the polystyrene foam used for flower arrangements, you know the green stuff, fun to press but stays crushed.
This is why PU/PE boards while feeling great when new over time lose that lively feeling.
Yeah sure EPS can suck water if an open ding, but ive had a dozen EPS/Epoxy boards and never had an issue the open dings ive had have been tiny and rare and almost always happen out of the water so fix or tape before ridding.
Its lack of popularity IMHO has much more to do with feeling, EPS doesn't feel like PU/PE so its hard to swap over, most stick with the feel they know and love.
The dream tour can become the green tour...getting a woody just thinking about it.
Hemp boardies and bikinis with re-cycled water bottle leg ropes.
I build paulownia over eps (I feel like I am alcoholics anonymous declaring that) and have looked at chambered boards.
A few things (my observations), all boards break without exception if pushed, if the board is stronger check the flex, likely there isn't any, you can change the thickness of the paulownia to increase the strength or reduce to reduce weight, most chambered / paulownia boards made are not performance but its all do-able but a lot more work / stuff to consider to achieve.
TBH I do the paulownia over EPS for novelty reasons (mostly by hand its a vibe thing) but as most here know there are quicker better ways / materials likely starting with PU.
There are some EPS boards around with different constructions that go pretty well the better ones tend to take longer to build and not great for profitability they can be lightweight you can vary the flex and you wont dent with your finger.
On the sustainability subject besides the materials there is a fair bit of waste produced in building boards no matter what you use.
All IMHO
I focus , I totally respect your process of Paulonia over EPS , its just a shame that EPS is not cosed between the beads . Agreed you can dream up all manner of construction processes , but to then do it mass market is the hard part .
The benefit of machine shaped boards is their shape consistency . Biggest problem is the deck cuts go way past the 'crust' and into the softer core of PU blanks thus shortening their lifespan .
i as most of us can't wait till a better , more sustainable process evolves.
Yep there's always waste but wood shavings are much nicer to walk through the house afterward :)
I make boards all kinds of ways, and have for 35 years. My take away in this time is that you can make a pretty durable board with all types and combinations of construction. The problems come when trying to achieve ultralight weights, think sub 2.5kg. With pu/pe construction, realistically even 4+4 deck/4 bottom is pretty much a throw away board. Most big name boards I'm seeing these days are even less than this, and guys are willing to pay north of $1000 for them. I'm yet to see any EPS/ epoxy with basic glassing schedules/methods to be much better.
For me super light EPS core with Paulownia of PVC foam skins/rails, gives the best blend of weight/performance/durability. Disclaimer: I have very little experience with hollow builds, but am extremely impressed with the work bosiny and other crew are doing.
As far as sustainability most boards are still really toxic, so durability for many years of use is something surfers should consider.
Good post tiger, I did a series of boards in 2015 with the more dense surfblanks orange foam (2.69lb) and 4+4 deck /4 bottom PU resin, and they actually lasted really well, still frontline boards now despite all the hits and dings over the years - taking wax off the deck each year there are hardly any dings, and the boards still perform well. Epoxy on this more dense foam can be expected to be more strong/light with less VOCs in the glassing - albeit a bit more danger in the sanding. Durability itself is good for the environment, and remember to not skim too deep into the deck. It's about time to upgrade them all, but favourite shapes are hard to part with, best to put out to pasture on the racks if they are especially loved.
Any Pics VJ.....?
Hey VJ. Agree with you there. Key point being the blank selection, and taking as little foam as possible from the deck side. Not sure that the modern day methods of shaping are too concerned by this.
Cheers Tiger, some nice boards you've posted pics up for too. Yep there's a skill in how you position a blank on a machine or jig - even the machines are only as good as those running them.
Udo I'll have to do something about posting pics, I'll have a think about joining some image site and post up in home made board thread if so.
Go any deeper than 5 mm on the deck and the foam gets noticeably softer . Some foil programmes go way deeper. A customer of mine is currently in Indo with a 14 year old 6'6" blade that he still swears by . He won't part with it . Sure it has had some hits and a fin ripped out but repaired well , it still goes great. It refuses to snap .
Surfblanks PU Yellow blank , 4oz hull lam , 2 x 4 oz deck with tail patch all in "warp weave" with Allnex R180 epoxy resin . Its fecking bomb proof.
I have been to a particular high end manufacturers factory, producing great looking surfboards, but alas using EPS rubbish foam, glassed in epoxy . The waste bins are full of foam offcuts due to the stupid dimentions of the raw blanks . Waste,waste waste.
Then to top it off , my buddy who does ding repairs is loving it cause they end up in his hands getting fixed. He often tells customers not to bother because they left getting the board fixed too late "its full of water" .
Excellent stuff PCS Peter Pan, is that warp weave cloth the same as 5oz flatweave? I had warp glass on my old Dibben longboards from 25 years ago (still structurally perfect tho I did get a ding repair bill on the 9'6 from a rocky shoreline)
Edit: yes I've seen the EPS structural failures as well. It's a lot of money to spend...
VJ , not sure of the 5oz flatweave . I have seen it but not used it . I have mostly used Colan 4oz or 6oz 'warp' that i have nearly run out of . I purchased a truckload years ago . I also use Surfblanks 4oz or 6oz 'warp' or just a good quality S glass .
'Warp' is a description but technically it is Bi-directional with 60 / 40 bias weave, 60 lengthways to 40 across the weave (less prone to snapping).
Mate most regular boards are just glassed in 'E' glass cause its cheaper.
If you order your next custom , ask them to specify 'S' glass , it is a good option.
John at SANDED in Long Jetty is very helpful and carries some excellent options .
Have fun buddy !
All boards are a combo of core and shell. You can't really say all boards using lightweight EPS core are rubbish. Sure, if you use a basic shell it's going to be rubbish. We are all aware of EPS being problematic with water intrusion. The idea is make the shell virtually impenetrable. 3mm skins of PVC foam or Paulownia sandwiched between glass/resin, takes a hell of a lot to puncture. 20 mm perimeter rails of closed cell foam, timber or cork mean the areas where most dings occur don't suffer the same water intrusion problems, and can usually even be repaired with polyester resin. Generally the kind of force required to fully penetrate the skin or perimeter rails would result in pretty catastrophic damage to a regular board. All in all, there is a bunch of ways to make a decent surfboard, but a super lightweight blank of any sort with one layer of glass each side certainly isn't one of them, no matter what decal it has on it. Anyway we're kinda hijacking this thread that should be about some impressive boards built with air and skeletal timber as core, and timber as skin.
"Anyway we're kinda hijacking this thread that should be about some impressive boards built with air and skeletal timber as core, and timber as skin."
Don't apologise Tiger, this has all been great reading.
What ya Reckon of this Glass up Tiger
That's just the thing. There's many variable combinations of materials to make up the composition of a surfboard. And just as many variable outcomes in performance, weight, durability etc. You can't just say that all boards with an EPS core are crap, or you don't like them, and label them "an epoxy". It would be like me riding a std density pu blank with 2 layers of 6oz on the bottom and 3 on the deck, and saying all pu/pe are crap because this one feels a bit heavy and lifeless.
On that note I gotta say into the future I'm far more interested in seeing what I can build with wood rather than any foam at all. Would love to replace all glassing/laminating/composites if I could as well. The planet has enough toxic waste on it, ideally you'd want a board you could truly bonfire with very little chemical hazard to sacrifice for the next swell when it's (long) life was done. Return it to carbon, put it back in the soil. Ashes to ashes.
Not quite what you're wishing for but Polyola is pushing in the right direction:
For those who missed it: we are developing a bio based Polyester Resin! Currently made from 71% plant based oils with the potential to go even higher.
We just hade the chance to supply not only our blanks but also our resin for the @aljezur_classic_invitational raffle boards. Blanks were shaped by @lucas_adee and @soak_boards - thanks for the great work!
Then our resin was tested by the infamous @blendglassing40 - Fab we can't be more stoked for your time and feedback. Legend
Now we have some homework to do and are confident we just checked off another box for the final product.
We keep you updated.
Totally agree YoungOne. These boards are so durable and perform. I've been building hollow balsa surfboards for 13 years. I only wanted to build one 6'0 single fin but enjoyed the building process so much and surfing this board that I've now made 17 of them. They range from a 4' 10 thruster for my son when he was 7 to a 10' stand up paddle board with a rounded square hollow paddle shaft. The boards are glassed with epoxy and finished coated and could hang on a wall when not being surfed. Definitely worth the many hours in the shed. The 4'10 is being passed on to my grandson and for sure will be around for more generations.
?si=8GXhX2H5VI5s6GCvAfter snapping my second longboard in 1 1/2 years at Burleigh I decided to build something stronger, that was in 2009. As woodwork is my thing I built a 9' plank on frame mal that I still occasionally ride. Since then I've built 9 boards, ranging from 6'10" fish to 9'4" mals. My go-to board at the moment is an 8' pintail mal with a lot of rocker. I build my boards with a centre stringer and a stronger hardwood top and bottom on each side so the basis of my boards is a "H" beam in the center. There are cross-ribs every 200mm so the internal construction looks like an aeroplane wing. I use mainly 4mm paulownia with some red cedar and American walnut for pinstriping or accents. I've tried to use marine varnish only as a finish, but found that with the inherent flexing during use, the deck seams lose their integrity and pinhole leaks open up along the seams. I now put 2 oz glass with epoxy on as a finish with a top layer of epoxy to polish. The only time I've had boards break was when my legrope snapped and the board was smashed onto rocks. :( . Rails are solid paulownia and cork laminated. That's the easiest to fix any small dings. Anyone wanting more info on the build send a reply & I'll email you details.
My apologies to any EPS devotees out there . Yes EPS is viable as a core . As stated in the thread , if it has a laminating regime good enough to eliminate water seeping in ...all good .
Problem is , there are loads of surfers who purchase a board in Epoxy/EPS basic foam sandwich for lets say $650 -$1000 . They surf it hard for the first 20 surfs and it gets a few small shatters around the rails and a couple of hairline cracks . Not enough to notice or warrant repair .
The board gets loaded in the car, in a boardbag on the roofracks etc etc .
The inner core of the blank is up to say ...28 degrees , mabey more . The air inside the blank has expended . Next , you go out on it in 20 degree water and for the first ten minutes that air inside the blank is contracting , sucking up water .
Your board may only take on 15 ml each time , but it adds up and spreads throughout the foam .
We've cut a savage tail area de-lam off an extremely popular model of an extremely big name board brand and it looked as though someone had emptied their coffee out inside the board.
Yeah EPS has its place , just be aware of its limitations .
I could go on , but I'm starting to bore myself , let alone everyone else .
Environmentally speaking 400’000 surfboards are produced annually dont seem like such an indictment on the planet. 600,000,000,000 (600 billion) plastic bottles a year might be though.
SBS Going places with Ernie Dingo last Episode had a Timber Board Builder at Margs .
A stylish video on a salvaged wood surfboard craftsman
Salvaged surfboard salvation?