Swimmer Suffered 'Catastrophic Injuries' During Shark Attack In Sydney
Ambulance crews have described the horrific scene they witnessed when they arrived at Sydney's Little Bay beach on Wednesday afternoon after receiving a frantic call for help following a shark attack.
Shortly after 4:30pm, four ambulances and a rescue helicopter rushed to Buchan Point, on the northern side of the beach.
"Unfortunately this person had suffered catastrophic injuries as a result of the attack and there was nothing paramedics could do when we arrived on the scene," Inspector Lucky Phrachanh, from NSW Ambulance, said.
Police searching the area found human remains in the ocean.
It was the first fatal shark attack at a Sydney beach in almost 60 years.
Police search waters near Little Bay, in Sydney's south-east, after a fatal shark attack in the area
Randwick Mayor Dylan Parker said the community was in shock.
"The coast is our community's backyard," he said. "Little Bay is normally such a calm, beautiful place, enjoyed by families.
"To lose someone to a shark like this is chilling. We are all in shock."
Randwick City Council has closed its beaches including Little Bay, Malabar, Maroubra, Coogee, Clovelly and La Perouse for 24 hours.
The Council said it was the first fatal shark attack in the area in recent memory. A non-fatal shark attack happened at Congwong Beach, further south in Botany Bay, in February 2018. The last fatal shark attack on a Sydney beach was in 1963 at Sugarloaf Bay in Middle Harbour.
Late Wednesday, a rescue helicopter continued to hover above the area. Search teams placed green dye in the water to work out which way the currents were moving as they tried to find more remains.
One man described to the ABC how he was fishing off rocks on the point and saw a man wearing a wetsuit swimming across the bay.
He said the man was right in front of him when he was dragged under the water by a large shark.
"He was yelling at first, and then when he went down there were so many splashes," the man said. "The shark won't stop."
He said the attack lasted for several seconds.
"It was terrible. I am shaking," he said. "I keep vomiting. It's very, very upsetting."
"He just went down for a swim, enjoying the day, but that shark took his life."
The Department of Primary Industries (DPI) said "smart" drumlines could be deployed in the area to monitor to capture any sharks, which would then be relocated further offshore.
"[We] will continue to work with NSW Police and Surf Life Saving NSW to monitor the area and provide any technical advice and resources if required," a spokesperson said.
"DPI extends sincere condolences to the family and friends and first responders at this tragic time."
The spokesperson advised beachgoers to download the NSW SharkSmart app, which allows people to check on the latest shark sightings by Surf Life Saving drones and on electronic detections of tagged sharks.
Police said a report would be prepared for the coroner.
© Australian Broadcasting Corporation. All rights reserved.
Comments
Very sad news.. RIP mate.
All Eastern Beaches are closed today.
With that amount of ocean users, swimmers, surfers etc in the water daily around Sydney, is pretty remarkable this is the first fatality in 60 or so years.
Was it one of those hard-core ocean swimmers? Either way thoughts to the family and those who witnessed it.
Shouldn't the title read shark encounter?
RIP to the victim.
Hard to think of a worse way to go... Absolutely dreadful.
I thought the same until I saw the footage circulating (instagram) from one of the fisherman. It's absolutely brutal and the shark keeps coming back for close to a minute. All happening only 50m from where they are fishing. Absolutely horrific
Amazing that you are concerned about the use of word "attack" in an incident that saw the loss of human life.
I just cannot believe you would focus on the terminology / semantics here... it seems more and more in our society there are people like you trying bend, twist or change the vernacular to suit their agenda.
... it was a shark attack and many other things we try to discuss in society get the same treatment.. how about we call things as they are and drop the twisting for our own purposes, stop the political correct or angling BS..
To the most important point: what a tragic end for a person who was taking a swim for health and therapeutic benefits, albeit (as we all know and accept in our sport) in an environment that has certain risks. RIP
Calk's being sarcastic as there's been recent discussion regarding the encounter/attack terminology and how ridiculous it is etc. (/s)
Ok, fair enough, retracted...
Sprouts right.
Everything you wrote Chipper I completely agree with and is the reason I was being facetious in the first place. All good.
Now that you mention it , I did hear a few news reports calling it a shark "incident" today. No reference to attack. The journos are still catching up with the PC terminology I think.
Perfectly put.
don't be a dickhead,the poor guy was ripped to pieces now his family have to deal with their loss.It was an attack
RIP. Seemed to about 200m out/around from the bay near the rocks on nine news, maybe snorkling?
Ocean Swim training
Always thought those guys that swim out in deeper water are ballsy. It felt like a Sydney attack was getting closer, with the one in Forster and a huge scare at Macmasters. Poor fella
The footage is harrowing. Looked like an ocean swimmer heading around the point or snorkeller? - but pretty close into the rocks really.
Horrible stuff. Condolences to the family.
Horrible. Sounds like a massive shark too. RIP mate.
"The shark came and attacked them vertically," he said. "We heard a yell and then turned around. [The splash] looked like a car just landed in the water."
That's no juvenile test bite, that's like a full on seal hit where they get completely airborne.
Can't add anything to the above. Tragic news.
RIP mate.
Why would anyone post video of this anywhere???
RIP Mate. Condolences to the family
I watched this unintentionally on Instagram stories. I wish I didn't.
The raw video is absolutely horrifying, this attack has similarities to the last fatal attack in NZ, where the victim was an ocean swimmer too. RIP.
Horrific for the person and their family, the thought of this always enters my mind when in the ocean seems so much more prevalent lately. As we are an ocean dwelling nation we need good tech to deter sharks and monitor movements of these animals to alert people. I know we are in their environment and need to respect the ocean and its creatures who are just doing their thing, just tragic.
RIP
People posting the video AND pic of whats left of the guy should be publicly shamed. And shame on facebook for allowing it. I'm sick in the stomach having just seen the poor guy. And It wasn't like I went looking. Bam, in a messenger group.
Have to agree - how anyone can think of pulling out their phone to make a video while thats going on in front of them beggars belief...but thats how many are these days...
Not that there was probably much they could have done in this case, but surely you'd be racking your brain thinking of ways to help?
Agreed 100 percent.
If it's the pic I also received unwarranted, csr wetty, it's a sfx doll, not a human and not this poor bloke.
No, the two videos being circulated its very clear that it's this specific incident
I said the pic not the 2 videos.
Blimey. As an avid Ocean Swimmer I have thought about sticking shark eyes on my wetty. I've only had one encounter with a shark and that was swimming Palm to Whale Beach in the annual swim there many years ago when a helicopter seemed to be buzzing me (I was at the back of a small pack) - got to the beach and later found out they were trying to scare off a shark.....nice !
Heck of a way to go.
Monkey, I can undestand filming AND giving to police. But to put on social media for "clicks"? Whats disturbing is the still photo obviouly taken by one of the rescuers. How that got into the public realm needs to be investigated. U cane see the guys face, and whats left of him. If I was afmily or friend, i'd be OUTRAGED
Jeezus, that's soo farked. Totally agree with your sentiments.
Pretty disgusting eh. Kind of makes you wonder who they really cared about.
Its about time the research money on Sharks be channeled towards preventing sharks attacks. Govt Grants to universities so some boffin can simply go fishing and and attach tags to get his PHD is pointless.
Stop giving the grants to universities that require a definite outcome so they can publish.
Start spending the money on finding out what deters the sharks. Many attempts will fail (so publishing results academically is a no go) but IM sure there is something Sharks dont like. If anyone is a fisherman we all know how fussy these things can be. (Sunscreen on a pilchard will get you you zip ?)
Or insect repellent, or lemon / citrus, they hate that
On ya gowsa spot on ...and fisheries management response is down load sharksmart what the fuk is that going to .. Hell of a way to go just horrific
Dreadful. Condolences to the family.
I've seen the video, too and it's harrowing. I think the Mayor's comments were pretty wise in the main, good to see they didn't sensationalise it etc and played a straight bat.
Gowsa, if nobody does research on shark migration and movements, trying to understand where they go and what they do, how do you suggest we try and understand them to try and prevent attacks? Just do research into repellents or chain-mail wetties? I agree that there is a publishing imperative in academia, but don't forget that the purpose is to allow for peer review and getting info out so that we can better understand things, and hopefully reduce (or prevent) terrible incidents like this.
Another thing. The vid was taken by rock fishermen. I've ALWAYS been suss surfing or swimming near fishos, due to their use of burley. God knows how much fish oil and old bait had been thrown in to create a fish feeding frenzy.
With more and more people using the ocean as a playground, we as a society need to sit down and talk. Us old sea dogs need to tell new ocean goers that swimming directly through a burley trail aint smart. Fishos need to also be mindful when fishing next to very popular inner city swimming and surfing spots. If I was Part of the southern sydney beach community, I'd be calling for a public forum
The same thought crossed my mind when I saw the footage.
There appeared to be a flock of seabirds in the immediate area.
Is that usual at that location or were they attracted by something (Bait ball/burley)?
It’s been pretty active in the water around here . I was surfing late the other day and the mind wandered as it does when it gets dark about the super warm water and how active the sealife was
Shitload of baitfish and lots of small tuna schools around the reefs and headlands at the moment. No need for berley.
RIP poor bloke
When seals get taken, the seagulls are often there in a flash. They just appear.
.
Exactly. And swimming Like that is just like taking a walk thru a lion park. I feel sorry for this bloke and his family but what he was doing was putting his life in danger and thinking "She'll be right mate". The poor rescuers and emergency personnel are the ones who really suffer for our collective risk taking. At least if he was surfin then the shark would get a mouthful of fibreglass and back off.
Anyway can't blame the shark for attacking a swimmer, with every second fisho nowadays using a highly accurate sounder and pillaging the fish stocks like no tomorrow, what has the apex predator got to do for food?
Jesus. Christ. This is what no empathy looks like.
Tango why not put the research money into repellents its a good outcome for both the shark and ocean users ..The money spent on research over the last 10 yrs hasn't achieved anything other than lining the pockets of the researchers ..Attacks are up shark numbers are up knowing where they go or where they come from changes nothing in regards to risk to ocean users ..We need to be spending money in a productive way not writing fairy dust papers
I don't think it's a case of either/or, SH. I agree that developing effective repellents would likely be a good outcome and that more research funding should be thrown at it.
But I completely disagree that other research (eg behavioural and other ecological research like distribution) is not needed. I think it's essential. My understanding of the best repellent devices available is that they have a much better chance of deterring an inquisitive shark in close proximity to the device. I can't recall anyone being game to stand behind their product in the event of 15ft and 750kg of white coming in at 35kmh to disable its prey.
In my opinion, getting a handle on what they do, how they behave, where they go, etc is essential to actually design the best way to minimise risks - whether that be through repellents (eg what are all the different substances/stimuli etc which repel whites?) or through understanding the factors that result in spikes in their abundance or their visiting certain locations/taking certain migratory routes.
So I think we need both - they're hand in glove - and we need governments to throw the right money at them both and in a coordinated way. Much better than carparks where nobody wants them, eh?
If you're interested about white shark behaviour, this is interesting http://www.elasmo-research.org/education/white_shark/instinct.htm
Thanks for the link, Tango. Interesting reading.
My heart goes out to all affected....
RIP
Makes me sick thinking about the attack... and the photos/vid being in the public domain.
Every time this kind of thing happens, I have a good think about how much I want to continue spending time in the ocean. I know the risks are minimal, but if something like this happened to me I hate thinking about what it would do to my family. Obviously me dying in a car accident would fuck them up too, but there's something about the rare and brutal nature of something like this that feels like it would be extra difficult to handle. Wave pools are looking pretty good right now.
RIP old mate, and agree with everyone above, how you can pull your phone out when that is happening is beyond belief!
Thats a result of years of you tube insensitivity to people's suffering and pain - hey thats funny watching some old fart fall over - lets put it on you tube and make money from other people's suffering - it just grow and grows until next thing you know there's an even faster way to be the first to upload someone's painful accident. DEVO, among others, predicted such disgusting behaviour long ago. But what can you expect when we as a country allow the govt to get away with getting the pol i ce to go around tasering peaceful protesters and using sound machines to blister their ear drums?
Terrible news & so tragic. On a different angle, they sent 4 ambulances, why? Haven’t we been hearing about not enough ambulances for call outs, paramedics stressed out lately etc, just wondering. RIP fella.
Re ambulance attendance, it depends on who else witnessed, was involved. If there were lots of witnesses to such an horrific event they'd send a few just in case they need to treat for shock etc.
Isn't it time to just treat great whites like any other fish and remove their protective status? The evidence that they are a threatened species seems less and less convincing and I'm not sure why they can't be fished like any other species to help control their numbers? I'm also not convinced by the "being in their territory argument" since if you believe in evolution and that we all evolved from the ocean from a common ancestor many million of years ago then we have as much right to be in the ocean as they do and we are entitled to protect ourselves. Anyway that's only my opinion for what it's worth.
Both of your points have been my opinion too, for a while now John. We are the only ones who can control their numbers and it's negligent not to. And yes it is also our environment...being the apex species on this planet, deserved or not, it is still the case, humans have utilised the ocean since we evolved. No we don't live in the ocean but we have just as much right to use it and feel safe doing so. Things have definitely changed for the worse for those of us who choose to use the ocean for recreation, which I see as being extremely sad. The worth of a fish can't seriously be put above that of a human. RIP mate and condolences to his family, terrible stuff.
Very close to home here. Yeah, has left a bad taste in the area. Walking Maroubra this morning and talking to Craig the local surf shop owner he told me there was footage of it going around. Glad he told me. He didn’t want to see it, I don’t want to see it either. Sombre mood down there this morning.
Swam in nearby ocean pool this morning. Only place you really wanted to go.
Horrific. Condolences to family.
Re number of ambulances, they always send two or more to any urgent job as long as they have spares (redundancy, traffic problems, scale of job unsure, ambulances break down too). During worst of covid conditions they had no spares, not even enough to send one to a job. In any case a shark attack gets priority. Don’t make this about ambulances.
Sydney people have had an awakening of sorts cause these attacks have been happening north of Sydney for a five or six years now.......
NSW = NewcastleSydneyWoollongong
Yeah, maybe Simba. For mine though, every attack at Forster, Central Coast, south coast, mid north coast means it’s going to be in Sydney region within a day or so. No delusions here. Every attack affects me.
A question to anyone who surf's snapper/Greenmount stretch since the fatality there
When paddling that section of bank, is the attack in your head?
Seems to be as crowded as ever from recent footage
I swim it and surf it.
Yes, sometimes. Not necessarily the attack but sharks in general.
Not just there but anywhere. Sometimes things just don't feel right. Other times you're vulnerable.
After 40+ years you follow your instinct.
Had encounters occasionally but never been bitten.
Have tried surfing the very end section recently but didnt feel right small day low crowd ..20 mins i lasted..
Yes, often. Particularly when the water is a bit too murky or if it's overcast, which is completely irrational given the attack on Nick Slater was on a nice sunny afternoon with beautiful water conditions.
RIP Mate
https://7news.com.au/news/shark-attack/victim-of-sydneys-first-fatal-sha...
Condolences to the family and RIP buddy .
Now I don't want to sound critical but I still cannot get over where some of these ocean swimmers go
to clock up their fitness . My cousin swims nearby at Malabar regularly . He got invited to swim with a small group of committed ocean swimmers from Malabar to Maroubra .He declined their offer .
deep dark water where he was swimming on his own. fuck that.
yeah asking for it
Asking for it, a bit harsh to say , but I agree.
Saw the footage online, it’s got all the right ingredients. I live in VIC so not overly sharky so that naturally affects my way of thinking, but I’ve told my missus if I ever get taken, to not promote shark culls etc. it’s their environment etc etc.. I know the risks and I choose to surf for fun.
Condolences to his family and friends. RIP.
Plenty of sharks here, they just don't seem as interested for some reason
Probably has something to do with food supply. For a long time around sydney, wollongong and south coast the seals were hunted to nearly all gone. They've been returning more and more. With their return, is the return of the sharks. But these sharks still venture into areas with less seals. And a hungry shark in that area, well, they probably don't think twice about what the food looks like. It's still food to them.
That's how i see it
Not overly high for interactions, perhaps....or interactions/close encounters we're aware of. I think someone posted a link to Scott Fairchild's insta account where he drone films GWS and how close they come to everyone without them knowing. It might be a shock of someone did a bit of that down here.
Vic has the two populations of GWS - the western ones that seem to come across to Cape Otway back to WA and the eastern ones which go from Corner Inlet up the east coast. They're around, just ask Pete Galvin who was bitten at Winky in 06. Full-on footage of a big one checking out a couple of fishos a km or three off Lorne on youtube...
I reckon that stretch along Seaspray along 90mile beach is primo Pointer breeding grounds. Feels super sketchy. On my trips through there i've checked it a coupla times and ended up getting back in the car and driving on. Doesn't feel so sketchy around Lakes Entrance.
I saw some footage of a shark at Lorne pier last week. Can't find it now.
Not so keen on the kids jumping off the pier now.
Yep its not blaming the guy, but he would've known the risks swimming in deeper water and obviously got enough enjoyment from it to run the risk. Swimming around a headland alone without a board would scare the sh#t out of me, but I'm sure he had some awesome swims previously
It’s a fairly low risk activity- despite what media reports have said when interviewing “locals” there are very few sharks around the area which pose a risk. On average 20+ people a day are doing the wedding cake swim at Coogee which is a 1km out without any problems. ( I would like to see the risk profile for daily swims out to Julian rocks- would be a fair bit different compared to around here)
Agree that its low risk in the sense that you could probably do it thousands of times without getting attacked by a shark, but its definitely riskier than swimming in shallower water near the beach or having a surfboard under you. I think most people draw the line before solo deepwater swimming, even though it would be a great experience
An ocean swim at Julian Rocks, is that the one off Byron? No one ocean swims out there do they?
Dont think so but is a very popular Dive site.
There's this swim
https://www.byronbayoceanswimclassic.com.au/course.php
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Nearly 30 years since this Attack
https://sharkattackfile.net/spreadsheets/pdf_directory/1993.06.09-JohnFo...
Also wonder whether the fact that if a shark attacks a surfer their first taste is fibreglass might be a reason for the accepted wisdom that great whites usually take a bite and leave
That particular shark went for unfamiliar prey and had in its mind a successful outcome. It would be more likely to do so again than if it had got a mouthful of fibreglass. Fortunately, they are not social pack animals so the new behaviour would not tend to spread through the population.
Not a personal attack on you, frog, but I'm not convinced sharks are as aware as we assume them to be. I've read a lot of comments (again, not directed at you) here and elsewhere that seem like anthropomorphisms.
If GWS were social animals, do you think they'd be capable of vicarious learning?
I think an attack is just an attack; it's not new to them, it's what they're programmed to do and what has allowed them survive/evolve. Perhaps the object they see is 'new' to them, but they're animals, and if they encounter a human, seal etc and they're hungry, I don't think they're aware of what it is; it moves, so they attack it.
Sure, they could learn to be more hesitant/cautious in the future if the outcome is painful or unsatisfactory in terms of sustenance, but I wonder what their memory is like?
Shark behaviour is fascinating!
Personally I think sharks are just big fish with big teeth. Want to catch a fish, chuck a lure in the water that looks like prey and they will have a go, and if they are in a really bitey mood they will have a go at just about anything that remotely looks edible.
And I don’t believe this nonsense that we are not part of a sharks diet - someone tell me how different a thigh on a human is to a chunk of whale, I’m saying S.F.A
Totally agree, they're just a predator fish species and if they're in the mood and an opportunity presents itself they'll have a go, regardless of what it is.
This whole premise that they aren't biologically programmed to eat humans and we have special relationship with them is crap. If its potential food and the situation is right they'll eat it - human, deer, cow, kangaroo, or whatever.
There's a 'scientist' doing the rounds in the media at the moment saying that this Sydney shark was some sort crazy/wild example because it went back for more after the first bite. He says because all human encounters (he clarified that attack is the wrong word) are test bites/mistaken identity, they leave after they realise its a human and that's why a number often survive after the first bite.
What he fails to acknowledge is that most attacks when humans survive is due to them being helped out of the water and there's plenty of examples (the Casuarina attack) where the shark was circling for more but has been deterred by other surfers helping them in. The Byron attack and the recent kelp beds attack also seem to show a shark hanging around for ages apparently wondering where that prey item they hit has gone to.
They also seem use the same strategy with hunting seals, hit them with a massive first bite (the so called 'test bite' when its a human), wait a couple of minutes for them to bleed out and then have a feed.
Although there's also plenty of examples where humans have been entirely devoured - that recent one at Freemantle is an example.
I just don't understand why marine biologists pedal this theory the sharks 'dont like' eating humans. We're just another animal in the water to them.
100% agree, Smorto.
In my opinion, I think it is naive to believe that GWs (and other animals capable of killing humans) mistakenly 'interact' with humans. In fact, it is bordering on delusional. Sure, there are occasions where people have swam, under 'controlled' conditions, with GWs and had no problems. Some have suggested that 99 times out of 100, GWs will/would leave humans alone. I'm not so sure about this and it's an empirical statement that I bet no one wants to test. I reckon if you jumped in the water with a GW, you've got a 1 in 10 chance of living to tell the tale. And that might be an overestimate.
A lot of animals, given the right conditions, are capable of violently killing humans and we should be vigilant whenever around them and respectful of their capabilities.
Yep, Johknee, a lot of these biologists who dive with white sharks and say they dont like to eat us are 100% controlling the situation - i.e maintaining eye contact with the shark and calmly swimming.
I dare them to turn their back to the shark and start swimming away fast.
I think its more down to the specific situation rather than the species of the potential prey. I reckon they are cautious hunters that may sometimes spooked by the odd movement humans, but if its the right time of day and opportunity is right they'll attack a human without hesitation and its not a case of 'mistaken identity'.
So do you think Ocean Ramsey is 100% in control swimming with the Deep Blue shark? Wow.
No I said 100% controlling the situation as in being very careful with their movements and taking a controlled risk from their point of view (i.e reading the behaviour of the shark and not making crazy movements, - 100% in control of their own interaction with the shark - not diving for abalone or some other reason).
Although this shark is pregnant in my opinion and is clearly not in feeding mode and this is crystal clear water. Similar to the great white encounters in Hawaii, they seem to be placid in when warmer waters to give birth.
So again, a somewhat controlled risk situation, not diving at dusk in the middle of winter in the Neptune Islands with poor visibility.
Looks like it couldn't even fit a wafer thin after dinner mint in.
Haha
Reckon she dropped it a roofie stuck in a tuna
Exactly Smorto. These doco makers and scientists are always there in a group filming someone with all the shark protection devices they can buy as they calmly interact with the hollywood shark. Absolutely criminal as it entices people to go out there solo cos they saw it on TV. Just like the ABCs doco of gentle little fires gently burning the Arnhemland bush to keep the bush 'alive' - BS! Arnhemland and the rest of the Top End is regularly burnt to a cinder thanks to this practice. Documentary film makers often generate enormously stupid risk taking / habits amongst the population based upon their short-sighted knowledge and from looking at the planet thru the eyes of Charles Darwin.
The death of this swimmer is a terrible tragedy and I really feel for his friends n family. What a horrific way to die. Its just not worth swimming in the oceans these days without a board or something to defend yourself with.
Roughly One attack per year in Aust waters results in Full Consumption - Yr 2000 onwards
These pricks that try to dictate that we must call it a shark "encounter" are nuts.
Why try and sugar coat or hide behind meaningless terminology. The guy got "bitten in half and eaten by a fucking big shark":. Why not just call it that?
I agree, joe.
I can remember as a teenager we'd fix al-foil on a hook to catch tailor. If a fish is hungry, it doesn't matter what's in front of it, it'll bite it!
Of course it’s nonsense, Joe. These are prehistoric animals, genetically much the same for millions of years.
Humans aren’t ‘part of their diet’, anything in the water is ‘part of their diet’. The thinking that, ‘oh sharks recognise humans and if they accidentally bite one they realise oh, that’s not part of my diet’. Total anthropomorphism. Do sharks even think, as we understand it - I doubt it.
Worth noting that he was wearing a wetsuit, and that attack was eerily similar to many authentic videos of how they go at seals. I would very much doubt that a shark ‘thinks’ - oh that’s just a human in a wetsuit.
It’s ridiculous to speculate in that way no matter how highly credentialed you are as a scientist.
A decade of fish, skate, rays, then dolphins and seals etc creates deep behaviour and hunting patterns they get locked in to. Plenty of studies show that in all animals - insects upwards - prey unfamiliarity creates a sort blind spot or at least hesitation. Drone footage of sharks swimming near surfers and swimmers shows that.
Otherwise we would be in big trouble. No predator randomly goes at anything routinely (crocs are close though!). That offers us quite a lot of protection.
Very hungry ones do though. Meet a Great White in mid ocean between here and NZ in a small kayak and you might regret it.
Stealth attacks or hunting mode opportunities by their nature are often a quick surprise with a split second decision. Unfamiliarity and habit means little then.
Wrong time, wrong place is often all it is about.
Have to agree with you Frog as im sure the 'small' gws of say 6-8ft are just starting to need a larger meal and are a bit hesitant in there approach as in a lot of drone shots but a large gw has been around and knows there's not much that scares it and when its hungry it will eat whatever it can cause it has a lot of muscle which consumes a lot of energy to keep moving
Here are some personal observations about imprinting of new behaviors in animals that would apply to sharks to some degree.
My dog, as a 1 year old pup, chased balls with enthusiasm. One day I started kicked an old soccer ball, that had been hidden in the bushes for years and was all soft with the rubber deteriorating around on the verandah. She was very wary of it due to the bigger sized ball and unfamiliarity and avoided it.
Then I kicked it up over her head and she leapt up and took a perfect little bite out of it as it went past. She landed with a look on her face that just said in human terms sort of wow / excitement / achievement. From that moment on she became very very interested in the soccer ball to the point I threw it away as I thought she might start going for soccer balls kids on the local soccer field were kicking when out on a walk.
The one success with the soccer ball just imprinted on her brain and changed her behaviour from that point on.
Another story - early on I took her to a beach during a period we were training her carefully to be calm and walk on a lead etc. On the lead, I ran down the beach with her by my side. She ran next to me looking as happy and excited as a dog could be. Big mistake.
For months afterwards, the moment her paws touched sand or even a patch of sandy soil in the middle of a grassy area she just went silly. Sand in her mind (from that one run on the beach) thereon meant time to be silly and run like crazy. It took a year to stop that response.
Single important events and new experiences (good and bad) can imprint a behaviour powerfully in animals of all different brain sizes and..... humans. That is just how brains are wired to ensure survival.
With sharks the fewer clear cut "success" events in attacking humans that might imprint a behaviour the better (obviously) and negative experiences associated with human interactions (escape, fight back, mouth full of fibreglass or a fin, chased away by jet ski, caught on drumline etc.) are good. A couple of recent attacks fall into the category of being something that could be repeated by the particular sharks involved.
Some great points, thanks.
Thanks for the stories, Frog! It's incredible how quickly dogs can learn. Some of those instances sound like Pavlovian conditioning and some like instrumental (reward/punishment)?
I'm wondering how it works with sharks; some form of instrumental conditioning by the sounds of it? I wonder if successes have a greater valence than negative events (or are they equally effective) and if a single occurrence is enough to condition them?
FWIW Johknee, for humans negative experiences leave a larger imprint.
But having just argued against the amateur anthropomorphism of highly credentialed researchers, I wouldn’t necessarily take much from that.
Yep, that was my understanding too, Batfink.
And I agree, not sure that applies to GWs.
With the dog, food / treats is the obvious well proven training reward. But my stories above showed an intrinsic reward from just a successful grab of the ball or the fun of a run is also powerful.
I still think that when she grabs a ball out of the air she looks proud and pleased with herself. Just like a good cutback for us.
For hunters, I am sure single events that are new and have a big payoff (full belly) with minimal hassles or fightback have big impacts on memory and future behaviour.
It has been speculated that the same GW revisits certain locations during its seasonal migrations where it had hunting success - a bay in South Africa had almost identical attacks at the same time of year two years running. Kelp beds in WA springs to mind.
Some time ago I read that some Shark physiologist had postulated that their brains actually more closely resembled a Cat's in some way. Which is no less re-assuring. A devious &supremely adaptable super predator
Tango i understand what your saying to a point but theres been millions spent and nothing good has come out of it if your not a white pointer .. There's people who live and breath what happens in the ocean and have a reason to understand how sharks operate who have seen changes over the last 20 yrs ..Abalone Divers Commercial line fisherman Tuna fisherman who's lives and bottom line depend on understanding them and are more than likely second generation fisherman the same poeple who have been saying numbers are up to be told by researchers and experts there not ..Im one of them and what i have seen is Researchers mostly 25 yr old Uni educated government grant takers who have a large ego and small ears and being led towards an end agenda which is usually to keep the research money wheel spinning..Most have spent the Odd day or two on the water and somehow think they have the knowledge and experience to disregard the yrs of experience available to them by listening to the poeple on the coal face ..Sharks are specialsts in surviving if they need to attack something to survive they will even each other and if you throw a tuna on a rope at them with poeple in a cage they will associate that with boats and humans ..If there is an easy score of fish under recreational or commercial boats they will associate it with an easy feed its how it works wether its a dog or a cat its survival ..What we do know is electronic deterrents work but they need some finer tunning and have to affordable and this cost money ..I dont think they are 100% going to stop a revved up white but the idea is to drown out the signals you put out so they dont sense you and if they do come and have a look which is what most do prior to an attack on any thing then the deterrent gives them a quick whack ...You can research all you like but the outcome will change from year to year depending on weather ,water temp ,currents , available food , etc
One thing we know is numbers are up and thats not going to change they have very little pressure on them its all been stopped ..And theres plenty of grass in the paddock with the growth in whale population ..
And now there has been another life lost we need to try to mitigate the risk not count sharks with drone,s and shark smart aps that tell you you where surfing with a shark when you get out ..
I can't argue with much of that, SH - fair points.
It seems that this event has generated a level of media attention and discussion far greater than any of the other attacks, and that can only be a good thing. I'd prefer to see governments take it all more seriously but I guess from their perspective the deaths or close calls from all sharks are dwarfed by lives lost to road accidents and ODs. I still think the research should be pumped up, and that there should be a way to harness the extensive experience of the fishers and others who've observed white behaviour and bring that into the science more effectively. At the end of the day they're a wild animal and no degree of hand wringing or research will be able to address the random acts.
As for repellents/deterrents, I'm interested in how you approach the question of entering "their domain" and the issue of risk. Do you think the real chance lies in repellents?
most have spend the odd day or two in the water? thats absolutely not accurate.
Best comment on the thread. There's not enough said about the capacity for sharks to associate humans with food and the impact of cage diving on their behaviour. I also find it beyond bizarre that we are fine to kill /shoot/euthanise a dog if it happens to bite someone on the street, yet when a shark takes a life, many seem to be ok with tagging it and dragging further out to sea or 'scaring' it off. Part of the ocean is a shared domain, as is part of the land - that's the way it is, and always will be. For mine, it's ok for humans to try to make parts of those shared domains safer, while respecting and caring for the environment and wildlife we want to see thrive.
Selective environmentalism.
You respect and care for the environment provided it doesn't interfere with your fun.
Yeah if you are looking for a label - perhaps ASD. It might be selective, but it is more heavily environmental. It's also more nuanced, and less self centered, than your comments suggest - but I'm ok with it.
KILL IT !
https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=626297641784735&_rdr
An interesting watch
and a big thumbs down to Ocean Ramsey and the rest of the shark conservation eco / enviro self interest groups - CULL GWS
R.I.P. to the victim & condolences to his family & friends. I gave up ocean swimming years ago when there was a fatal attack at Tathra (NSW South Coast). The GWS are an apex predator that have been protected since 1996, their numbers
have increased to the point where it is now commonplace to have encounters with these animals in the seas/oceans. I personally am a lot more aware of their presence & although still surfing when there are good waves I am more selective about where & when I surf in order to reduce the %'s of these interactions. At the end of the day it is their environment and humans have to respect this!
RIP to the victim from yet another white shark attack. The shark does not reason, it hunts to survive, simple. Science created the problem by recommending the protection status of the GWS, time for science to reconsider and recommend change.
'At the end of the day it is their environment and humans have to respect this!' Who's arguing about 'their environment'? It's the environment of millions of species but we fish and exploit their environment for our gain - just not GWS for some obscure reason. Mako and bronze whaler sharks, gummy sharks and rays, snapper and tuna - all fair game, why?
Tango im not concerned who's domain it is
Just like to surf safer as i rekon its going to get riskier as time goes on ...Do i think we need to have a cull ? yep i do ..do i think its going to happen ? nope i dont ...So im thinkin a deterrant that works and is reliable and affordable so more poeple are using them is the way to go ..Do i think they will stop every attack ? no i dont but they can lower the risk considerably...
SH, yep, agree that we need deterrents. But your suggestion that we need a cull implies that you think the risk is directly related to the numbers of sharks out there. And maybe that's the primary factor, but unless we do the research we won't know about the other possible factors that contribute to risk and miss something elementary that could have saved lives as well. Anyway, I'm out, I feel bad for hijacking the thread a bit re shark management issues when a bloke has been taken.
I wonder what would be done if a T-rex was walking down the middle of the CBD and occasionally picking off an officeworker every now and then. Dare I say there'd probably be a T-rex hunt. Even in this day and age.
Who's domain would it be then?
My thoughts are more needs to be done both on understanding movements/patterns/behaviours and physical barriers between humans (that work) - this is great and only about a km from where the Freo Port Beach attack was + a few 100m from where Ken Crew was attacked - https://www.cottesloe.wa.gov.au/business-development/major-projects/prot...
Me thinks all these electric devices send the seals up the rocks and leave the sharks searching of a good feed.
Wow how far do you think the deterrent feild travels ? ..Maybe its the 5G network that causes covid is also effecting the receptors in the sharks nose pissing them off ..Or theres to much sunscreen from all the poeple swimming lateley due to the heat waves in WA and its burning the seals eye,s ..
Processed food kills tens of millions more people than white pointers.
Cull Colonel Sanders and Ronald McDonald.
Really?? I didn't know, must have flown under the media's radar. That's crazy.
Like choking from chicken bones or bleeding out from papercuts from the burger packets?
Just trying to get my head around the comparison here between an instant gruesome death and death from eating fast food.
Of course I assuming that you wouldn't be making a comparison between a shark attack death and death from a disease associated with decades of poor diet choices.
Surely you wouldn't be that disrespectful right?
Dead is dead. It’s all unpleasant for those involved.
There’s nothing disrespectful in pointing that out.
I think you need to pump the breaks on the hysteria bloke.
Hysteria??? Yeah righto mate keep puffing out your chest like usual.
Being eaten alive during a leisure activity is a slightly less expected death compared to that which is a result of years of poor diet.
But if you want to make dumb comparisons think about how many billions has been spent on improving diet awareness and banning fast food has seriously been put on the table.
Both are the result of potential outcomes of personal choices.
“Being eaten alive during a leisure activity is a slightly less expected death …”
Yeah, nah. Most people don’t think twice about having take away rubbish 4 or 5 times a week but almost everyone would balk at the idea of ocean swimming along the deep water drop off adjacent to the entrance to Botany Bay.
It’s sad and tragic, it’s also a fact of life and nature.
Choose your risks = choose your consequences.
I agree with yourself that scientists shouldn’t euphemistically misconstrue the motivations of sharks with the concept that sharks don’t attack people for food , but you only seem to go half way yourself in appreciating that sharks eating people is a risk we recognise and assess on our own terms. Sharks do occasionally eat people. Deal with it. You don’t like it then stay out of the water.
Saying that the ocean is the shark's domain implies that land is our domain, which isn't really the right way to look at things. If shark numbers are massively increasing, then allowing people to fish for them again with some restrictions (rather than a cull) is surely the way to go.
With any luck a 100% solution is never found. Imagine another 10 trillion fuckheads in the surf,yeh that'd b just great
Bumped
https://www.dorsalwatch.com/report/index.html?id=28686
And a Breach
https://www.dorsalwatch.com/report/index.html?id=28685
Yikes!
Agree tango ..terrible for the his family and freinds ..
Genuine concern for tri-swimmers doing their morning thing, Noosa & GC.