Webber Wave Pool for the Gold Coast
After months of waiting, Greg Webber is set to build his wave pool at the northern end of the Gold Coast. Webber's technology, which he has repeatedly said will eclipse the quality of Kelly Slater's wave, will be used in a wave park built by Ben Mackay - the founder of Penny Skateboards - and Joshua Neale.
Although a developement application is yet to appear on the Gold Coast City Council website, the location is believed to be McPherson Road, Stapylton. The site at present is 95 hectares of farmland between the Albert River and Pacific Motorway.
The Stapylton site comes after a few false starts by Webber, including a proposed wavepool contained within a theme park on the Sunshine Coast. Before unveiling his Lemmore, California, wave pool in December 2015, Kelly Slater was linked to a failed developement proposal at Pimpana near Stapylton.
Meanwhile, Surf Lakes, a rival wave pool company that uses a differing method of wave generation to Webber and Slater, are already digging their first wave pool at Rockhampto on Queensland's central coast.
Surf Lakes is likely to be Australia's first working wave pool in what is gearing up to be a competitive industry.
More to come...
Comments
Great, bulldoze that farmland.
Who needs food?
We can eat artificial waves, for a small fee of course.
I don't see a problem here.
Get some sick pits then hit the poolside resto for some Petri dish raised Imeat hotdogs.
http://beyondmeat.com
Or Chili non carne.
(Soy beans dont need farmland do they?)
You know when the waves are so good that you skip lunch and just surf right through ?
It'll be like that.
You'll just have to skip breakfast and dinner as well.
And snacks.
And smoko and elevenses .
That's how good the waves will be.
At Kelly's pool you can have a 3 course meal between waves.
Ah, yeah, not farmland ... It's flood plain lands.
Have a look at how high up they had to build the BP service centre just down the road.
First good rain event and the pool will be filled with bull sharks.
That would make for an interesting CT, first up Gabs vs Toledo
Build it and they will come..................
2018 Yatala Pie Pro
Wether this ever happens will depend on these purported backers, not Webber.
So Stu who are they , how deep are their pockets and how much political pull do they have to play the theme park game on the GC.
Someone like Nev seems to have the political say to get things done and rumours are he is aligned with Surf Lakes so therefore a competitor.
Well Ben Mackay is, as stated, the founder and owner of Penny Skateboards. You can find a fair bit about him online.
Josh Neale is a an adjunct lecturer at Bond teaching civil/structural engineering.
I'd say that's the bucks and brains. Not sure about political clout, or even how much is required.
Stu, do you know if the land has been secured by the interested parties?
Yeah, I believe so.
Hi Stu , would the land have been purchased without the local Council having greenlighted the project?
95 hectares sounds a lot of land for a pool , any guesstamations on how much the land cost ?
Interesting to not Kelly/WSL bought acreage in Palm Beach Florida , submitted a business plan , inclusive of the budgets etc to the tune of $50 m , this was presented to the PB Council who passed it.....so how can council possibly agree to anything without a comprehensive business plan?
I think that's a great location in terms of opportunity for revenue. That would make it the closest 'Break' from Brisbane and hard to resist as people drive past to get to the GC for waves. I can see the FOMO dilemma occurring already, 2ft slop at the spit or long barrels... Also, I'm a stickler for the odd before work surf. That means up at 4am, drive for 1hr, surf for an hour, drive an hour and a half back (due to traffic) 20 mins on the train and at work by 10am. Its a schlep, and I can't afford to do it often. There is potential convenience here and that would play on my desire to get a quick surf in before work more frequently.
How much for an annual subscription? when does the park open & close each day? those are the questions that will decide whether the convenience is realisable or not.
Interesting stuff, I will give it a go, Depending how expensive it is, but would prefer the ocean for what its worth, being a known tight ass, lol.
Here's a link
http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/sport/surf-sports/plans-for-gold-coa...
"he has repeatedly said will eclipse the quality of Kelly Slater's wave"
Thats a big call Kellys wave is really pretty perfect, only way it could get better is a bigger wave and maybe a bit more hollow/square.
But really for a 2 to 3 foot wave kellys wave is world class, IMHO its also much better now with a few outside sections for turns before it starts getting hollower.
Macpherson Road, Stapylton, Queensland looks like a good flat site on Google Earth next to the highway and bounded by a river. The river is the line between Gold Coast & Logan councils.
If you look behind each wave in kellys pool, there is turbulance and other waves going on behind the wave ridden. This would prevent a wave every 20 seconds or so as promised by Webber. i hope im wrong and the technology is different not allowing for the turbulence to happen.
Remembering there is 2 sides to the Webber design and end zone waves plus have I remembered something about powered water jet dampening preventing that turbulence or was that some kind of dream??!?? But really that whole looped linear design makes a whole lot more sense than kelly's up stop and back doesn't it!
Yeah it makes more sense i just dont believe the turbulance will be gone behind each wave. i dont believe they will get as many waves per hour as they promise. Still interested in this though and wish Webber and his crew the best of luck.
4 completed rides every 10 seconds
The only way it can be better than Slater's is by increasing the energy input to make it bigger, faster, have a longer workable face or some combination of these factors. Energy cost at Slater's was calculated at $12 per wave. Given the economics of an operation like that it is hard to see the per wave cost coming in at an amount that most punters will want to cough up. $50 a wave would be my guess. Still interested?
I've been wondering Where did that $12 figure come from anyway? But anyway the looped linear design by Webber keeps the foil moving hence reducing that heavily costly initial motion gathering phase. You could be right but I'd be surprised if they even attempted anything over $20 per wave plus maybe an entry fee. Just my thoughts but surely with this sort of wave gen where you are producing this circular wave circuit the wave energy gets recycled back into power, surely correct turbine placement acts as a turbulence baffle and could salvage 25% or so of power back i to the grid.....
If it is $50 a ride then it will definitely fail- too expensive for experienced surfers and too difficult for beginner tourists who want to tick 'surfing' off their holiday to do list.
I see the business model working the same as a gym, gym junkees (experienced surfers) provide your all year patronage and therefore the business bread and butter.
Your after Christmas/New Years resolution crew (beginner tourists) provide your cream by giving you busy periods throughout certain times of the year.
Competitions will provide an income as I imagine the punters will have to pay to get through the gates although this is hardly something that can be relied on for the business as there will only realistically be one or two WSL comp's held at a wavepool in Australia in any given year.
So I think if the price is too expensive for the average experienced surfer then the whole lot will be a flop.
As far as the argument of wavepool vs nature/ocean I think everyone can agree that the ocean wins hands down as the overall experience can never be replicated in a pool. However as a Dad of 3 little children with limited time due to work and the kids the idea of being able to schedule a surf every Tuesday and Thursday nights sounds amazing. Doubt it will ever stop me choosing a good surf in the ocean as there will never be the overall experience and stoke you get from an unexpected good wave/session.
Looks pretty handy to the rest of theme park circuit/circus there. I wonder how big the parking lot is planned to be?
Wave garden in Melbourne
Surf Lakes in Central Qld
Webber in Bris - GC corridor
I'm sure these things will live and die on wave quality and cost but I'm wondering which target area will be best?
The Waveless city with population and disposable income
The surf less country with fifo workers and high disposable income
The existing surf travellers corridor saving time, distance and giving certainty of quality?
Yeah surf lakes being built and based at Mt Jim Crow 10 kms sw of Yeppoon, and yeppoon thru to emu park has a healthy surfer base. Hopefully the downscaled test site works and is worthy of expansion to full size operation so the public can have a shot at it too.
Wave park, skate park, bmx track, ski water jump, go cart track, fitness challenge park plus awesome kids playground makes this concept sustainable/ profitable. Stand alone fad will fail. Nothing like a day at the beach my friends.
http://cityplanmaps.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/CityPlan/index.html?search=163739
The area in green is over 135 acres
Is that the right address ?
About 100 acres short.
$50 per wave ... so 100 waves = $5,000. At 20 waves per day over a 5 day period.... that's about the same cost as a 5 day surf trip to indo and about all the days and waves a non daily (corporate) surfer can take on a surf trip to indo.... it might do better than your think with the well healed less fit corp guy who wants to surf good waves!
.
Greg has said this previously about pricing: It's not my call as i said but I'm guessing about $5 for a 25 second 1.25m wave, $6 for a 20 second 1.5m wave, $7 for a 17 second 1.75m wave and if we manage to make the 2m wave it'll cost closer to $10 for a 15 second ride that can either be a wave for turning on or it has has a 10 second tube after a 5 second build up from the 1m high start.
Things are getting real official-like up Gold Coast way.
Though it's Webber's tech the company is Tunnel Vision and the website is here: https://tunnelvisionwavepark.com/
There's really nothing on the website ?
You clicking on the three lines at the top centre of the page?
No vision but a bit of info about the park's site. Plus you can also ascertain where they intend their wave to fit into the market.
damn those three lines , or even some people call it a menu , ah fossil tech!!
Just read it and still a very long way to go , as if Council still hasn't approved the project , I would think that it would take them 6 mths at least to present and get passed , before building starts?
Interesting that a $350 m project has just been announced at Modewarre . Surf Coast Shire incorporating a wavepool!
By the way the website reads it seems there is a need to be as un-official as possible, whilst still dealing officially with officials :)
.
Yew! Sounds fun, I’ll be there
That area was a few metres under flood water at the start of the year, nice way to lose $10-20 mil
That’s a worry. Maybe they want to offer the high tide experience...
It's a flood zone, that farm has just started up again since being wiped out by the last cyclone. It's zoned open space, look at the flood protection / buttressing under the BP. Maybe they've been forced over there because the Chinese have bought out all the other farm land. Have they p*** their b***** to the G*** c*********, D****'s not c****.
Watch out for the libel laws btm. Lots of cases recently about online comment. I would delete that last line if I was you.
As long as they keep the wave machine running when it floods. Sounds like fun to me
All l see and read here there and everywhere is speculation on if any wave pools can actually financially survive, the price point per wave is the breaking point true, $12 bucks a wave is a little steep, if l remember right that was a figure based around the cost of power / per kilowatt hr !!!
We all know now that a wave pool can make pretty good waves like even prefect but a little small, if only these guys can generate a 4-6' wave then their on to something.
The engineers need to concentrate on generating energy from the pool it self, the systems in place now are just not smart enough, my thoughts anyways........
The artwork is dodgy but then again you always have to be a bit wary of what’s in the brochure. The artwork in this article has the wave breaking away from the centre island, which is the opposite to the way it is normally shown. There is even a lone surfer wandering in from a sandy beach on that side. That’s supposedly where the equipment is generating the wave unless they’ve redesigned the technology to put the wave generator on the external concave perimeter of the pool. In that case they’ll need a bridge to move the riders onto the centre island to access the take off spot.
And I wonder what the council would say about the glass fence around the perimeter. Anyway, it’s just a brochure, and it wouldn’t generate any hype if it showed a picture of 100 surfers standing in line on a cement path waiting to have their go at a 20-second ride.
It may be true that surfers spend only a small fraction of their time actually riding waves, and to anyone watching from the shore that other large percentage of the time may look extremely boring, but we all know it isn’t if you’re doing it.
One of the many differences between ocean surfing and riding waves in a pool is that when you’re in the surf for an hour, you’re in the surf for an hour, whilst an hour at the wave pool is 2 minutes in the water and 58 minutes on the footpath. And how much would you pay for that?
Tunnelvision will also boast "super fun learn to surf foamie start ups". And I,m guessing that would be a big part of the business model for them. That's why I asked how big the parking lot was going to be.
Tunnel Vision pushing to get DA into council before xmas
Then the bulldozers start - Beach Grit.
Pretty sure the DA is already with GCCC as that's where the leak came from. It's not showing on the GCCC website as there's often a delay between lodgement and public presentation.
So, Ben, Stu and Craig - you guys have been neutral in your reporting and commentary on the wave pool issue.
You all seem very intelligent and insightful so would be interested to hear some opinion from knowledgeable folk like yourselves.
The whole creating thousands of new surfers, the environmental impact, the general viability of proposed parks and the emergance of pool specialist kids unable to read the ocean seem to be the main talking points. But are those really the core issues?
Regardless of what we all think there is a "surf industry". Many people are employed by and love that industry. The big surf co's, mags and many others were the "industry " through to 90's and 00's. Now that they are no longer the behemoths they once were what is the surf industry now? Who or what is generating the $'s to reinvest in surfing as a sport?
Are pools and all they encompass the 2nd or 3rd incarnation of the surf industry?
Any thoughts?
To the contrary, we must have run more than a dozen articles on wave pools over the last six or seven years, and the three of us have contributed a lot of commentary.
Stu's written some very enlightening articles too (off the top of my head, check this one from 2011 "Kelly Slater almost sunk in wave pool wrangle").
From my point of view, there's nothing new to discuss at the moment.
What is the surf industry now? That's a good question. But best left to discuss outside of this article.
They don't need surf forecasts. That's all I know for sure.
Up till around 10 or so years ago I was against them, based on 'sanctity of nature' thinking. I was similarly opposed to artificial reefs too. However, I've come around to both reefs and pools each with a number of caveats, probably too many to go into now (busy day today).
I don't buy the argument that pools will cause more surfers as surfing is too complex for a large cohort of surfers to pay for enough wave pool lessons to become competent and then go to the coast and also learn the vast array of nuanced skills, the ones you apply when not standing such as reading rips, duckdiving, and lineup positioning that make surfing even more complex.
So for there to be any discernible increase in numbers you'd need a lot of very rich kids to learn in a pool and then have the wherewithal to go back to the very bottom rung and start again when they paddle out at a beach. You can add 'paddling' to the list of things they'd need to learn.
I'll expand on this later...
Nice.
Look forward to the expansion.
Fair call. Have read the previous articles.
I guess the question was aimed at the current climate. With what KS has already produced and WWP looking likely in the near future with big claims about the end product.
Just like bums, everyone has an opinion and I am interested in hearing yours. Opinion that is.
If they run these like gyms they will be laughing...sign up heaps of punters and them only half show up and use the memberships...if your close and you can get a subscription and pick your time to surf its gold...6-7am 3 days a week and then off to work
Ah, so, wait a minute ... didn't webber comment, was quoted as saying, in the last article that 'construction was starting in 6 weeks'. And, what? that last article was, when, about 3 months ago?
Hmmm.
More fluff n bubbles?
Would appear ... YES.
From here: https://www.swellnet.com/news/swellnet-dispatch/2017/08/22/webber-wave-p...
Webber is quoted ... "while the civil work, the excavation of the lagoon, begins in six weeks."
And, when was THAT?
Yep, back in August. Article published 22 August. So, yep, over 3 months ago ...
Yatala Pie Pro !!!!! ......that man needs to be in Marketing ....
I'm so sick of them talking about building wavepools, that's what it is it's all talk......how long has this been 'talked' about now? Years and so far nothing.....come back in another 5 years and let's see where we are then
they have meant to have to be 2 in melb funded approved for construction so far.......and nothing but tumble weed so far
How long until we see the first Webber wave pool - Mid 2018
Greg Webber on Magic Seaweed
Outlandish again.
I think part of the problem with GW is , the naïve media who actually give Greg the space to ramble on , and keep him in the forefront of Pool news as that's where the Hype is right now!
Worse is when you read his surfboard design interviews articles , where he is non -sensical in claiming the Banana board is so advanced no-one can ride it , especially Kelly! His claims about Herro winning the Coke contest on a Banana were not true , its all a figment of his imagination !!
Anyone seen the site from the highway lately? any earthmoving plant there? any dirt lifted?
To be able to sustain the effort it takes for this type of innovation means one may exist on the edge of reality -as most serious innovators have -just wish it could happen quicker as my days left to surf are running out. So I've learnt "take with a grain of salt -but encourage and wish that can happen quicker"
I think "wish fulfilment" may be involved but without a taste of that sort of dreaming, we would still be dragging knuckles, beating drums or smoke puffs for sending selfies?
Time will tell -but I just wish it would hurry up for that.
Any DA's submitted yet
Don you have a contact in Gold coast council ?
Calling all investigative journalists, whats happening under the apparent cloak of silence?
Nothing sinister. I contacted Greg not so long ago and it's still progressing. Bit slower than he'd like but progressing all the same.
All good things come to those who wait.... & wait........& wait.
I have been keeping my eyes out for the DA to appear on the GGCC website.
Beware the Ides of March.
Tempus fugit.............
my money is burning a hole in my pocket
I'm with Stu on the convenience of being able to have a early surf before work or even a sneaky summer night surf. Over here in Perth its only the night time skate sessions and off season trips to Indo that keep me sane through summer... I'd be the first to sign up for a membership of a decent wavepool hahaha.
Australia riding the wave of the surf park boom
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-04/surfing-parks-in-demand-across-aus...
and
New 'wave pools' hope to revitalise Surf industry
http://www.abc.net.au/news/programs/the-business/2018-04-04/new-wave-poo...
And not anything on Webber Wave pools???
Hmmm...
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1734893776557388&id=11224937...
Bet no one factored that cost into the development and wave pool ROI.
I was of the belief that GW only had a MOU with Sanad (David Baird) and that if they went ahead with the park, that the pool would have not been done till stage 3.
So now GW is linked to Tunnel Vision who has is the licencee holder of the Australian rollout of WWP?
So.........If you want to build a WWP you have to buy a licence from Tunnel Vision.?
Comments welcome.
I have no idea about the licensing, but the way Australian local and state govs over charge for pretend and real services is astounding. To be in business and develop a property into a going concern is not for those without extremely deep pockets, and a lot of that money gets sucked into bureaucracy for rubber stamping a go ahead.
And you do not get the rubber stamp until you untie the red tape.
And you do not get the red tape till you jump thru some hoops.
And they will not let you jump thru the hoops till you pay $$$$$$$$.
Ha ha well put.........pay, pay, pay!