I can just see it now, Freeride76 down in the carpark, full "eyes wide open" with coffee buzz, debating the information being given out to the "public". If you can't beat 'em, join 'em ... ??

Surely, this is the perfect gig for you Freeride?

Well we sort of already know where they go...

(TAGS) Tell a good story heh. Park at North wall and in between TAGS you can swim with them, no cost and you can get up real close to the action. If you didn't become lunch, then your winning...Good luck boys....

Hi guys..This is Kent here,and this is the project I am proposing so feel free to ask any questions..Id rather engage with people directly than hide behind the veil of a pseudonym so fire away..

hey whitesharkent, good on you for your little venture, let's hope it's as productive and forthright as is hoped and proposed

just wondering if there's much truth to attacks early morning/late at night? and also cloudy days?

these things seem to be free falling into the myth category as evidenced by freeride's post

"Just for the record.

At the time of attack.

Full sunshine, light W to WSW winds, barometer steady on 1019 HPa.
Low tide 9.50 am.
Low solunar fish activity. First day after first quarter Moon Phase and hence neap tides with low tidal coefficients.
No baitballs sighted between Byron and Ballina.
Very good water visibility.
Light showers over the weekend with 5-10mm of rain over the two days. No visible rain runoff. No lagoons open to the ocean."

and really really interested in white pointers and numbers increasing?

I know it's a grey area, short on research etc. but there seems to be some plain bullshit thrown around to cloud the waters...obfuscation I believe is the term.. I know there aren't good numbers but surely trends are easy to pick

and if numbers are trending abnormally high, what would you propose to do about it?

thanks

Skypan.thanks for the questions.
Most of the attacks from these animals is during the day,broad daylight.Not early or late.There is a tendency for sharks to be more active on the surface when there is an onshore or light onshore winds and surface chop to camouflage them.
Small swell also brings them closer to shore.They don't enjoy stirred up ocean floors where sand can invade their gills.
We see this off the east Vic coast,where the water is dirty close in.They tend to hang behind the second bar out behind the surf zone..
Are their numbers increasing.?..As juveniles they are healthy no question.Rec fishers were catching larger than normal numbers off the Vic coast over the past 2 summers in the pupping ground..All around the 1.2-1.5m range and commercial fishers have certainly been seeing more juveniles out near the snapper grounds.Id be predicting many of these that have survived are what you are seeing up along the northern NSW coast at the minute..
What CSIRO scientists are doing now is estimating how many of these are actually surviving to adulthood and breeding size through gene mapping..Process is called close kin genetics and has only been available to them in recent years.
That is the million dollar question.It is easy to say yes,there is a population explosion based on the number of juveniles and subadults being recruited but, its the % that are surviving to become adults which determines if the population is on the rise…All points on the compass are saying most likely given their protection status, along with the increase in seal and whale populations through the southern ocean..Which is where white sharks achieve their greatest development..
What to do about it if numbers are increasing.?
That is the very reason why CSIRO are working on the population estimate.If it comes back nos are increasing then fair to say the Feds will look closely at having them removed from the protected species listing.Unlikely it will happen but, something they will certainly consider.
If their numbers are rising to adulthood then I would be expecting to see more in Bass Strait and the southern ocean over the coming years.Im sure Vic surfers would be delighted to hear that..Time will tell.

Question for you and others
I am curious to know are fishers in your area experiencing more or less bully mullet or comparable sized school fish in close to shore.?.Its seems baitfish are plentiful but, the next tier up.?
These and salmon are the preferred options for juvenile whites.
Cheers

Good information whiteshark, thanks

Any reason there doesn't seem to be many attacks in Victoria? both now and historically, seems to have always been kind of quiet comparatively

, possibly related to the turbidity you speak of?

Sorry I know nothing about fishing so can't really answer

Bully mullet numbers seem pretty stable, according to my pers. obs and what I can gather talking to the beach haulers and mullet fishos, but they occupy a similar trophic level to other baitfish and although bigger, aren't really the next "tier" up.

Sea run mullet and white sharks don't seem to be that closely associated here (Lennox-Ballina). It's very common to see whaler sharks following the schools but much less so white sharks.

As for salmon we haven't seen any big schools here for a few winters now. They were getting incredibly common through the early-mid 2000's but haven't been here for a while. It's my understanding commercial fishing began again for them on the South Coast NSW and that may have harvested the abundant schools that were coming this far north. Maybe the increasing strength and duration of the EAC has deterred the salmon schools? Don't know why but they have been absent from the inshore zone here.

As for next tier up demersal/pelagic fish I think the tailor seasons are getting better and better, which I put down to increased protection during the Fraser Island spawning run (closed season) and hence much better recruitment.
Mulloway (jewfish) I can't really detect any pattern in abundance other than local ones tied to rainfall events. 2013 was an incredible jewfish year but that seemed to predate the local abundance of white sharks.
Snapper fishos in winter and mackerel fishos in summer all reported white sharks taking fish and cruising.
Last year was a very abundant year for inshore bait schools of mostly white pilchards and anchovies with blue pilchards (sardines) later in the season.
This year, nowhere near as many bait balls.

Kent, there seems a fair bit of grey around age of sexual maturity, fecundity and potential growth rates under favourable biological conditions. Could you shed any light there.
Vic Pedemmors seems fairly confident mortality rates are low once individuals reach that juvenile/sub-adult stage.

Nice observations FR. Do you think these bait balls and fish runs may have a correlation with AlNino/LaNina conditions?

yeah, broadly, as it relates to rainfall patterns and ocean currents. Definitely.

Just one more thing: the most common predator you'll find in the bait balls are dolphins. Which is why I would really like to see some stomach content analysis or other analysis to see what these whites up here are feeding on.
There's a much greater calorific reward for a 3 m white if it can ambush a dolphin compared to chasing down a tailor or a mulloway.

I came up with an idea that may be one of the reasons that contribute to the large increase in shark attacks in N.S.W.......

Whales. More of them. Lots more of them. Therefore a lot more feed for sharks and therefore more sharks (better breeding conditions?)!

Theory based on the fact that surfers entered the waters about a hundred years ago when the whale populations were recently decimated by humans, and, as their populations have slowly increased the shark population has caught up (with a slight lag) and therefore shark attacks on humans have dramatically increased.

It is a very loose theory based on intuition and a few obvious facts, certainly not based on thorough research, however, I have not yet read this idea anywhere and I think perhaps it may have been overlooked?!

This would only make sense for Great White attacks, not bull or bronzies?

Also, are there any approximate numbers on how many human hours are being spent bathing in the ocean in any area at any point in time? For example, in 1975 in the month of June between Byron and Ballina a total of 200 surfers spent 6000 human hours in the water (calculated at 1 hour per person per day for a month). In 2016 that number might have increased to 157,500 human hours for the month of June (3500 surfers at 1.5 hours per day due to better wetsuits, over 30 days). It could even be a greater difference in numbers but this shows 26 times as many human hours in the water.

So, more food plus more sharks plus much more probability due to many hours in their domain (Plus some other unknowns perhaps?) equals a greater likelihood of attacks.

Please excuse my poorly thought out theories, however, I do think they are a valid contribution that someone more qualified might be able to make better sense of.

Below is a direct quote from the wildaboutwhales website.

"Over-exploitation eventually ended the whaling industry in Australia. For example, an estimated 8,300 humpback whales were killed on the east coast between 1949 and 1962. As whale numbers plummeted in the 20th Century, laws were passed to protect a number of the species.
In NSW, whaling ended in 1962. Cape Byron, now one of the state’s most important whale watching sites, was the last of the state’s whaling stations to close."

As late as nineteen-bloody-sixty-two!!!!!!! No wonder it has taken a while for the wild life to play catch up. If our fore-fathers hadn't been murdering the sharks main meals for so long maybe we would have all been getting attacked a lot more back then?

No offense mate, but every man and his dog has tied the increase in whales to the increase in sharks (or potential for increase).

I also think your estimates for surfer hours are wildly inflated.

No offence taken at all! I just hadn't read it anywhere and thought perhaps it was one of those weird obvious things that slip by unnoticed.

As for the hours.... I'm not so sure. A lot more people surfing around there now.....

Thinking about my childhood home break and the difference in crowds now. Mid-winter no-one to 10 people now guaranteed 100 every morning

Great idea Kent. Stoked to see your continued efforts in communication of what is known and not known.

Some breaks have become a lot more crowded, no doubt.

I know one thing though, the Ballina to Broken stretch has been a lot LESS crowded since this all kicked off. Estimates by board builders here of a reduction in surfing effort of 70%, and this fits with my observations. Many, many days of good to great surf with no-one out or very few people.

And all the attacks have happened when the surfers have been in small groups.

So, it might mean that crowds have a protective element, ie more people in the water might not mean more chance of encounter, it might mean less chance.

And that would fit with the modus operandi of an ambush predator that seeks to isolate a prey item.

hey kent. great initiative and thanks fr the info. is there any systematic investigation into a possible relation between buried whale carcasses and shark presence / attacks? it's something that is discussed a fair bit on these forums and seems to warrant a serious look. while i'm here, thanks benski fr the continued informative and reasoned contrubutions on these shark threads - top quality stuff

Kent.
Was reading in the comments on CW the suggestion that glad wrap can be used to stem the blood flow from a shark bite to the leg.
Any thoughts on the effectiveness of this idea.
And secondly this methods effectiveness if the femoral artery has been cut.

Kent, do you think that the current concentration of subadult white sharks in the Lennox area might be the equivalent to the Stockton nursery area, but for older sharks, more of a schoolies collection of teenagers? If it is, is it a autumn/winter seasonal event that should start to finish up soon, but may occur again next year?
I don't really like the idea of nets, and not sure how effective they will actually be but I was wondering if they may assist breaking up the concentration of sharks in that area. They say the nets break the sharks territorial habit but I can't see a sub adult shark establishing territories. What are your thoughts on the nets?

Im siding with Freeride on the theory of Whites feeding on dolphins,makes more sense to me that a dolphin is going to fill up a shark more so than chasing mullaway or bait balls as FR stated and maybe they need to study concentrations of schools of dolphins and see if there is a correlation between them and whites because we know that the north coast has a lot of dolphins pods....surfboards and dolphins are a very similar shape. Maybe a couple of whites could break off an old or baby dolphin out of the pod a bit like a lion would a wilderbeest....the other thing i think worth mentioning is that in the past before whites made a come back is that bronze whalers were very common,but hardly do you hear people talk about them now,we used to see them on a regular basis and i can remember counting literally well over 50 looking down from the car park at Lennox in the shallows along the rocks on a flat day.So is there a correlation between whites and whalers?

Does a surfer really look like a dolphin or a seal? Really? To me they look about as similar as a human and a tree.

I really don't like speculating when I have no expertise but this surfers look like seals/dolphins thing is so implausibe to me. Watch a seal on video or a dolphin and if you think it looks like you, you've either got stumps for arms and/or you swim like a demon with abdominal mobility beyond the rest of us.

White sharks have big eyes that presumably function properly. They can surely recognise the prey items they know are food and they go them properly. We know that. But look at the bite from last week, that ain't a 3m predator attacking something it thinks looks like its ideal prey, that's a curiosity bite. Tadashi's death aside, most of these recent ones (and those from Byron in 2008 i think it was) have been little bites not a predator on the attack for something it thinks resembles its prey.

That's interesting about the possible lower whaler shark numbers relative to whites. its hard to know exactly but I reckon the aerial patrols are recording a lot more whites these days. And they don't seem to report hammerheads at all yet as a kid there were always heaps of hammerheads seen at north entrance, maybe they're more pelagic and being nailed by the long lines .
Re the dolphins, no doubt they'd be part of the diet, as the sharks get bigger, how is this vid from last year, although it's a tiger it would be the same size as some of these whites.
https://www.swellnet.com/news/swellnet-dispatch/2015/01/16/tiger-shark-a...

I think the dolphin theory is a really interesting one FR. I grew up in Byron but now live on the South Coast. During my early teens there were a number of attacks in the area and it was a common sight of seeing big 'shadows' following dolphin pods on the outer banks at Tallows and off Broken. One thing I would note is that through the mid 2000's the explosion of Australian Salmon on the east coast did no-one any favours. This coupled with, from what I understand, the disappearance of the school shark population on the east coast seemed to indicate to me at the time that something was seriously out of wack. I saw massive schools of Salmon off Hawks Nest and Treachery and heard stories of guys going out and dynamiting schools to get rid of the things in the area. Also heard stories of big schools off Lennox which had never been heard of before that far north as far as I know but nothing further north. Aussie salmon are the rats of the sea. They eat anything and everything but nothing eats them except the men in the grey suits. Could there be something in the theory that the whites followed the big schools up the coast in the mid 2000's, breed, and what we are seeing now is a population explosion in the area with the main food source gone? Was only a grom when the ballina/byron area went through that spate of attacks so wasn't following the fish then but I'd love to know if the Salmon were running up that way before that series of attacks.

Benski "White sharks have big eyes that presumably function properly. They can surely recognise the prey items they know are food and they go them properly. We know that. But look at the bite from last week, that ain't a 3m predator attacking something it thinks looks like its ideal prey, that's a curiosity bite. Tadashi's death aside, most of these recent ones (and those from Byron in 2008 i think it was) have been little bites not a predator on the attack for something it thinks resembles its prey."

Maybe it's a case of the juveniles still learning their hunting skills. Maybe Opportunist activity also, right place right time for the shark. If a GWS bites something you would think it's probably because it was hungry. It's not like they would be looking for something to play with, like seals do at times. "Curiosity" equals potential meal IMO. I haven't seen any GWS docos that imply that they "play", say like Seals & Dolphins.

Great posts above in this thread btw. Cheers.

benski commented Saturday, 29 Oct 2016 at 2:20pm
'Does a surfer really look like a dolphin or a seal? Really? To me they look about as similar as a human and a tree.

I really don't like speculating when I have no expertise but this surfers look like seals/dolphins thing is so implausibe to me.'
Really? so the silhouette of a surfboard from under neath looks nothing like a dolphin,maybe maybe not but it looks like something dead or wounded with some splashing kicking thrown in .s
So that makes it a possible meal.

Why necessarily dead or wounded ?

Why not just ungainly ?

Or easily caught ?

Which we are...

And if you want to ascertain if we actually look like a dolphin, then throw your goggles on next clear day - today was perfect for someone at Coffs , Simba - and check your mates out from below.

Unlike those staged and evocative photos that show a surfer to appear like a turtle from below, a shark will see its prey in more than 2 dimensions and from more than one angle. We look nothing alike. Please give the sharks some credit.

Ask any spearfisherman if they can differentiate between a kingfish and a mackerel , between a snapper and a morwong, between a surfer and a dolphin.

Seems silly ? Of course .

And a shark has exponentially greater powers of observation underwater than we do.

Really Blowin? you sound like you have it all worked out,well next time you have your googles on check out your mates from 30 feet or so away and see what they look like at a 30 degree angle with sunlight behind them,not straight underneath because most times i think you will find the shark is moving fairly quickly and has made up its mind to have a bite by that time.

Not having a go at you Simba.

Most of the recent attacks have happened in a few metres of clear water. Check it out from underwater yourself.

This isn't a payout, you seem keen to understand what is going on and it would take 10 minutes of your time to U derstand it from an underwater perspective.

Of course I don't know what a great white thinks , but I have been diving / spearfishing since I was single figures in age and got my scuba ticket at 15 as I worked for the guy called " The shark man " who took me diving with sharks on my first dive with him.

I've since fed myself by spearfishing / fishing for decades around sharks.

Get the goggles on and do a lap of your mates underwater and you'll realise that an animal that hunts for a living isn't going to mistake us for dolphins.

Well Blowin sounds like our backgrounds are sort of similar as i have been spearfishing pretty much all my life so getting upwards of 50 years now and pro fishing at one stage so mate dont tell me about what things look like underwater.Ive had many close encounters with sharks over the years and a lot of those in the ballina byron area some of which i have talked about before in the forums to do with sharks and have had an encounter with a 4 meter white in the early 80s off byron so i sorta know that its possible for a surfboard to be mistaken as POTENTIAL food.

Just something to add here....I always assumed white sharks had excellent eyesight and had a strong visual element to their game.

At the last community meeting here Vic Peddemors told me latest research indicated white sharks had poor eyesight.

And Benski...."Tadashi's death aside, most of these recent ones (and those from Byron in 2008 i think it was) have been little bites not a predator on the attack for something it thinks resembles its prey"....take a look at Matt Lee's injuries and Craig Ison.,
Both of those sounded pretty much like a predator in full blown attack mode.
Matt injuries were horrific, his leg looked like a tree someone had taken an axe too. He was grey when they got to him and died three times on the way to hospital. It's a miracle that guy is alive.

Even some of the later, less severe attacks still sounded pretty gnarly. Seems if the shark hadn't got a good mouthful of fin and fibreglass first then a lot more damage to human flesh would have resulted.

yeah, it sounded totally counter-intuitive to me but thats what he said.

Kent might know more?

Hey,

Great convo. Really finding it all very interesting to read.

I was wondering a few things..

1. Is it true (proven) that one species of shark over another is more likely to attack?

2. Sharks are always said to 'feel' (test bite) things, so this is why they bump or test-bite etc..is there any merit to all of this? Conclusively studied? Which therefore humans are not a target but just in the wrong place, wrong time etc..

3. Do all sharks prefer river mouths? Or are they territorial? I have found that the Great White for example seems to just be an opportunistic predator just cruising where-ever and seeing what's on offer, like it's king of the jungle counterparts (Lion's / Cheaters etc)

4. Will splashing or flailing around in the water attract a shark?

5. Does urine? Dogs? Or any other of these smells attract sharks?

6. Oh and finally, aside from actually being in the water in the first place, is there actually anything you can well and truly do to minimize your chances of attack? I know a common theory is often to surf, swim with others, but some attacks appear to occur with groups of 2, 3, 4 people and a shark literally singles a person out and goes for them...which has then influenced my other questions above as to why something like that happens.

That's all for now.

Thanks.

Timm.

Here's an example from this spring.....a lovely little day with chest/head high sets. Perfect little barrels like a little wave machine. You can't see anyone out, because there isn't anyone out. It's no secret spot.
I surfed it for about 40 mins solo before the heeby-jeebies got too much and I felt like I was being stalked. No one came, no one checked it. The feeling here is that small surf days are just not worth getting your legs bitten off over. Lots of small or marginal or even really fun surf going unridden.
Sure, when it's pumping and once the crowd reaches a critical mass then it's safety in numbers and a free for all.
Would this little peak have been ridden in 1975? Maybe.
I'm certain there would have been someone out in 1985 or 95 or '05.

Far out that looks fun, and pretty close to shore too.

The vibe up there must be intense at the moment

My apologies to everyone for not getting back sooner to the forum,its a long weekend here in Vic unfortunately family commitments come first…

Its really great to see all the commentary,I just want to clarify the purpose of the van..
Yes,its a bit cheesy but, the idea is create a destination point where we can share the facts as we known them through 15 years of researching these critters.
Most importantly, its an opportunity to meet up with everyone on the ground to hear your thoughts and observations..We don't pretend to be fishermen and we aren't the eyes and ears on the water in northern NSW but, we are definitely interested in knowing more about the area from those of you who are in it or on it 24/7.
What I would also like to point out, which is never discussed in the media,is up until the tragic events in WA funding for white shark research was pitiful to non existent..
Despite us having the best scientific brains here in Australia the Feds and CSIRO upper command gave white sharks a low priority..Non commercial species,waste of time and resources..It has been the drive of Barry Bruce that has kept the white shark work on the road,all be it just.It only consume 40 % of his time while the rest is divided between other marine projects unrelated to sharks as per the wishes of CSIRO command.Despite the criticism levelled toward him by journalists,what this bloke has achieved and continues to achieve is remarkable.. When I see and hear these ill informed journalists getting more air then they deserve,I feel a need to jump in.

Sorry,thats my rant for the morning.

To get back to your comments Ill do my best to respond..
Freeride76…Fantastic feedback,mate.I think you've addressed one issue and that is food source..Clearly food is not a problem in the northern rivers and the reason I say that,if these sharks were showing signs of feeding and starvation then logically the damage inflicted on bite victims would have been much greater..Tadashi excluded may he RIP.
One area that needs to be researched more thoroughly is swell conditions over the past few years..I would like to see the historical data of the past three winter/springs in the northern rivers.
Reason I say this,for the 7 years we were tagging out of Port Stephens,the only time we saw and caught sharks was during days of small swell..Aways between the beach and behind the first bank.They don't enjoy turbulent water and the prospect of getting sand in their gills.
Same scenario off the Vic beaches always out of the murky zone where sand is stirred up.
The majority of the animals we tagged were in the 2-2.7m range, rarely saw any bigger.
Another interesting statistic,there has never been an attack on the beaches outside of Port Stephens but, two inside..Both those sharks were larger than 2.7m.
We started to see the numbers drop off as the years went on,from 20 tagged in the first year to one on the last trip in 2013.Im not saying the population was decreasing but, they were clearly going somewhere else.We also experienced more unstable weather systems,larger swells and greener water for longer periods of time inner shore in the last three years.
So how does this relate to northern NSW you are probably asking.
There is every chance many of those sharks you are seeing now are sharks from that Port Stephens crop.A few years older and starting to test out developing hunting strategies in preparation for the migration to the southern ocean and the seal colonies.Clearly there have been larger sharks seen and caught in the Ballina area over the last two seasons supporting this..
Another interesting piece of information.
We know all these sharks are born in eastern Bass Strait and cycle up and down the eastern seaboard for their first five to six years as juveniles and subadults.
We have definitely seen more new born juveniles recruited in the Bass Strait nursery over the past three summer-autumn seasons.Sharks from 1.2-1.5m along the coastal beaches.
From this we can assume the seasons were favourable for giving birth off the Vic coast and food was plentiful..This was supported by the rec fishers who reported bumper snapper seasons also off the beaches.
Freeride,your comments from commercial fishers observing sharks picking off snapper and mackerel from long lines is exactly the behaviour we see here.
As soon as the commercial fishers see juvenile whites appear on their lines they pack up and head home ..cant compete.The greatest activity being around the full moon and lead up to.
It will be interesting to see if we experience the same conditions and shark interactions this coming summer given we have just had the coldest and wettest winter/spring for nearly 20 yrs.
This could very well determine the amount of shark activity along the NSW coast next winter/spring.
What I am trying to point out here is there is a definite connectivity between Bass Strait and northern NSW.What happens here in terms of shark recruitment will most likely impact what happens up north.

You also asked about sexual maturity and growth rates.
Given the opportunity, they reach adulthood at around 4m . Breeding age at around 15-18yrs and 5m length,no smaller.
The growth rate of these sharks is approximately 300mm per year from juvenile through to subadult when they develop the fastest,after that it begins to slow .They rarely exceed 6m.
We had one of our tagged juveniles from Corner Inlet handed in by a commercial fisher a couple of years back from which we could determine the annual growth rate.It had been injected with the antibiotic OCT,oxytetracylcine at the same time as tagging the animal.The same product used by dentists back in the 60-70s to compensate for lack of fluoride in kids and too strengthen teeth.It created a discoloration on the cartilage which allowed us to measure from the point where it was injected to the last cartilage.

Responding to the question was why has Victoria avoided shark attacks for so long.?

Many reasons but, in short,where these young juveniles are born and hang is an area that is by and large unpopulated by humans so next to no interaction with ocean users..
Fish stocks also tend to be well offshore around reef systems as are major currents and upwellings and this is where the greatest aggregation of marine life takes place.
All seal colonies are well offshore apart from Seal Rocks and The Skerries and even then white sharks only visit these,they don't live at them.
The larger adults come and go from the colonies but, tend to spend most of their time well offshore rather than being vulnerable inner shore.
Last but, not least..Luck has played a huge part no question
I believe will begin to see more and larger white sharks in Bass Strait over the coming years, so my advice to Victorian ocean sets would be to start getting better informed..

Regarding whales..Again Freeride,you nailed it..
There is no evidence to suggest white sharks of the size you are seeing in or then NSW are is the area due to whale behaviour.The greater majority of these sharks are still in the developmental phase,their jaws incapable of dealing with large mammals.
That said,the environmental cues attracting whales are the same cues attracting sharks.They are both responding to sources of food.Fish,krill,plankton..
Regarding the burial of whale caracas on beaches has always been contentious.We have certainly seen increased shark activity around washed up and decaying whales and yes,the oil does leach for weeks.We saw this last Nov at a beach off East Gippsland which drew in sharks to ankle deep water for a number or weeks until the carcass was removed.All large adults and highly revved up..So in answer to your question,this is not a practice I would recommend near recreated beaches..

Sorry guys,I have to run but,I promise to get back to answering more the questions later

Hey Kent, do you know much about Killer Whales and their activity in NSW? I have seen them in the early to mid 80's and never again since.

What's the current best knowledge about how many pups, how often, and breeding age?
TIA

A coffee van? To deliver us all from twisted shark facts media corruption? You won't find me driving 2500 ks to stand in this queue looking for my daily dose of shark facts. I've heard of these things called web sites lately. Efficiency tests indicate that they perform better than hippy vans. This is hereby the stupidest idea I've ever heard.

Back again guys..
Responding to questions..Visuals…I don't know of the recent study Vic is talking about but, what I can tell you is their eye setup is similar to a set of polaroids that adjusts to varying light conditions..A lens comes over the eye and filters the light which enables the shark to clearly define its prey and increases its hunting capabilities.

Interesting someone pointed out the number of bronzies appears to be dwindling along that northern rivers coast.Im not sure it is necessarily their numbers are decreasing but, they certainly defer to whites and are likely to clear out..On the NSW south coast and here in Vic whites tend to show up early once the water temp hits the 16 C mark and usually just as the snapper and pilchards start to appear,normally Nov but, in particular Dec.They seem to head back out to the snapper reefs over Jan once the water inner shore heats up and its then the bronzies show their faces on the coastal beaches..Mid-late Feb - Mar,the whites tend to reappear inner shore and the bronzies clear out again.

Do they prefer river mouths.?
Yes and no…The newly born white appear to prefer the beaches inner shore from the snapper grounds offshore.When the pinkie snapper emerge they high tail it away from the reefs and toward the inner shore, the new born juvenile whites tend to follow.
The older juvenile and sub adult whites prefer the areas directly out from and either side of river mouths and estuaries.We see this at Hawksnest beach near Port Stephens and Corner Inlet In Vic.Now starting to show similar behaviour at Ballina..
From the tracks of sharks tagged so far,a pattern is beginning to emerge showing these animals do spend time near river mouths and estuaries no question.

I was asked where wouldn't I surf or how best to minimise the risk of attack... Lighthouse beach and Sth Ballina I would stay well clear of and any other river mouths or entrances to estuaries.
Understand the reef systems of your area, the fish that breed there and the timing..Remember sharks tend to move in and out from coastal beaches cycling between their natural hunting grounds and the shore.They aren't permanent residents to an area.

The question about dogs.Its considered that it it isn't the smell of dogs that attract sharks so much as the kicking and swimming behaviour.So yes,avoid swimming or surfing with your dog off banks or in gutters.

Simba.We have certainly had tagged sharks appear on a seasonal basis off the Corner Inlet receivers and the same sharks off the Port Stephens receivers,they cycle between the two areas yearly,so yes,it is highly likely they would be on the VR4 network in the northern rivers,Ill need to check that..

Dean..You asked about Killer Whales..Yes,they are seen regulalry on the south coast of NSW as well as the seal colonies in Vic..The same pods appear from time to time.In Vic its usually from Sep through to late Dec.Check with the guys at Australian Orca Database they can definitely fill you in as they follow them continuously.

Tootr.. Pregnant adult white females hold anything up to ten pups in their womb but, of those its rare for more than 2-3 survive.They consume one another as they develop so its a case of fittest surviving..They emerge at around 1.2m in length as a stunted mirror image of mum and from that point there is no parental care.
The gestation period for a pregnant female is approx 18 months.So breed every 18months -2 yrs.
Adult white sharks begin breeding between 15-18 yrs when they are around 5m in length.

Heres and interesting fact for you..A number of white sharks had there genome mapped which showed some had the same parent but, these sharks were of different ages.
It was determined their parent had reproduced once at around 15yrs then again at around 40 years...

Sorry guys have to head off..I hope this helped

Back soon.

Good stuff thanks Kent
Care to name the company thats charging you $40 k for a 10ft teardrop caravan

Hi kent , how much confidence is there in the age of sexual maturity and growth rates?

Dr Daniel Powter said : "Given that females reach sexual maturity around 12-17 years of age and have a reproductive cycle which is probably around 3 years"..

If females under favourable conditions were reaching sexual maturity at 12 years instead of 18 that could make a statistically significant difference in terms of population increase.

There seems to be a few age cohorts in the Ballina aggregation. is there an accurate method of aging tagged sharks or can you only use the growth rate/age tables from your sample to determine age?

I take part in the DPI angler research project for mulloway and this fish below at 106mm and around 17kilos ...according to the size at age tables it should have been close to 10years old.
Otolith aging determined the fish was only 5 years old. It had grown at a much faster rate than the accepted growth rates.
Could anything similar happen to white sharks under favourable environmental conditions?

Species : Argyrosomus japonicus (Mulloway)
Donor name : …S.S…...……..……...……..
Location : …Lennox Head….........……..………..........
Date : …14 May 2014 … Sex : …unknown…............
Your fish was …106.0… cm total length
and estimated to be ...5... years old

Hi Kent, thanks very much for your informative input into this subject. Fantastic reading.

In regards to the NNSW (Ballina etc) situation we are watching unfold, you mentioned that GWS sharks aren't permanent residents to an area. So do we take the definition literally, in other words, these GWS around Ballina could consistently hang around for say 3-5 yrs but not be considered "permanent residence"? Or are they constantly being replaced by other GWS in that same area during that same period?

Also, has this activity that we are seeing around Ballina etc happening naturally in other places but the only reason we don't hear about is due to those other areas not being heavily utilised by humans (surfers/swimmers etc) therefore no/very little interaction with humans, therefore no news?

Thanks again!

BTW, FR76 that's a beautiful fish alright. The ocean is a mighty provider, but it's also a mighty taker if the "holes" align.........

I'd be interested to know if the receiver tags identify specific sharks when they ping them.
Eg the Forster and Hawkes nest receivers have been going off lately, is it say shark # 37 and # 25, or unknown. The available info does not seem to include this.

I have to say I absolutely loved the wave of the day from yesterday, but I just wasn't sure, were there two dolphins and a seal? One dolphin and two seals? I dunno, so hard to say for sure ;-)

Hi Kent
Thanks for finally busting the dawn/dusk myth. I've been keeping track of attack times for the past ten years and the stats show no time is safe.
Timmy, there are only 2 things that will make you safer
Ride a longer board, I can't find any fatal attacks on a board over 6' 6", and almost no attacks on over 6 6 boards, I don't know why but that's the way it is.
Avoid back beaches with gutters. Protected corners on the northern side of headlands are safest. Back beaches feature really high in attack stats, probably because of there proximity to deep upwelling currents and gutters.
Hope this helps
Troy

Really, is it true that not attacks or incidents with boards over 6'6" !
Can Kent confirm this ?
If so, then I know what I'll be doing ...

Recorded attacks on surf skis, kayaks and tinnies here in North Coast, so not sure board length has any extra safety.

probably less chance of injury because the shark has more chance of getting board than flesh.

Agree Toots, would like to know if they can tell which shark is being detected on the listening stations.

agree freeride, I recall vaguely attacks on all sorts of craft of many sizes. However from a pure surfing position it seems most encounters/attacks involve some damage to board, and occasionally the most damage was to the board with victim almost unscathed.
So if that has any validity, the more board the better the better the chances.

Reading through this thread and reflecting on other similar threads, I simply make the following observation purely as a way of putting up a suggestion.

It seems to be a a multitude of thoughts/ opinions/speculation etc mixed with some factual experiences and very little, if any, established facts/real observations/real experiences to build a statistical platform that can filter the variables and identify any potential patterns.

What about a standardised online/printed form to be completed by victims/witnesses/emergency services/ lifeguards/scientific researches and any person with helpful information.
I could think of about 50 questions of the bat. Better people will know how to produce a form that could be computer driven to create modelling. No question too silly.

EG...Time, day, month, year, part of season, water temp, air temp, barometric pressure, wind direction and strength, full sun, part sun, cloudy, rain, water clarity, salinity levels (if known),wave size, wave period, swell type and direction, glassy, choppy, side wind, tide info (as much as possible like rising dropping, extreme tides etc), moon phase, sand bottom, reef, rock, weed, currents, gutters, rips and proximity, any ocean activity, bird activity, fish, bluebottles, jelly fish, lice, seaweed on beach or in lineup etc etc.
If on a board..colour, pattern, logos, length, volume, no of fins, fin size, fin colour, plugs, box or fixed, leash colour, length/thickness, ankle wrap colour eutectic.
Victim wearing...wetsuit, style, colour, pattern, thickness...boardies, rashie, colour, pattern, material. Did you piss, any cuts (bleeding or not) possible sweat body odour if only entered water. Did you see shark, did you sense shark, did you feel anything unusual like water swirl, smell anything, dolphins present, were you talking, paddling, sitting, been out how long, true surfing ability, facing out-sideways-inward, did hark come from behind-side-front-don't know, from below or semi surface, did it knock you off your board, into the air-how high, did it attack board, did you fight back-exactly how and what effect, did you see its eyes- open-closed, did it go or hang around, were you looking at it, did you retain your board or swim for it, did you turn your back and flee or turn and watch(like fanning did), did it cut leash etc etc
This may be the only way we can begin to create some statistical data to approach this threat in a rational way.

Drone footage on Dorsalwatch from Avoca of a noah and seal rounding up some salmon.

Evening guys..Apologies again for the scatter gun replies…

Udo…The company is Woody caravans in Nerang…Fantastic crew to work with..Shes not a teardrop and breakdown of the costs..$33,500 plus artwork to side, rego,insurance,freight to Vic.

Freeride..Very nice fish mate.
I think the scientist you might be referring to is Daniel Bucher from Southern Cross uni.?
No disrespect but, he is not a white shark authority,my boss/colleague Barry Bruce from CSIRO is the man everyone defers to here in Aus.Hes is the leading scientist on the species and has been working on them since the mid 80s, in that time established accurate and well accepted methods and standards for measuring growth rates in white sharks.
This is now quite easy to do by injecting OCT (oxytetracycline) into the spinal cartledge.It leaves a permanent mark in the cartledge where injected and the distance can be measured to the last cartledge if the animal is recaptured.
As I mentioned,we had one of our Corner Inlet tagged sharks returned by a commercial fisher for examination,it had been injected with OCT from which we determined that particular shark had grown nearly 300mm over one year.Same method being used on the Ballina sharks..The majority in the northern rivers have been juveniles in the 3-5yr range with a number of subadults in the 6-9yr age group.
Again it is widely accepted sexual maturity is reached at 5m which is between 15-18yrs and their reproductive cycle is between 2-3yrs..Gestation period is 18 months.
Your last question regarding accelerated growth rates.I cant confirm ,I'll need to check with Barry.

Rabbit..Great questions..
What I mean by not permanent residents,they are seasonal to an area.We have seen nearly all the tagged sharks from the past year move away from Ballina from late spring through to around May..A number have returned in the following year,some virtually to the day they were tagged but, there has definitely been new recruitment as well.
Your second question is a beauty..
Yes,there is another location and that is the 90 mile beach-Corner Inlet area.Most of the tagged juvenile sharks head to this region of Bass Strait over the late spring-summer,while the subadults move further afield to include the seal colonies offshore.
This strip of coast is unpopulated by comparison to northern NSW so chances of interaction with humans is much less.

Tootr..Yes they do identify the tag number when it passes a receiver..Each tag is individually coded and reports to the receiver.Shark 30 for example has been busy off Old Bar lately.

Re board length..Sorry I haven't heard anything on sizes but,yes,Freeride Id be thinking what you say is the reason..More board more foam less exposure to body parts.

ljkarma…What you put up is a great idea.Labour intensive to setup initially but,very comprehensive once up and running and could be easily accessed via computer..
We always like to include photos with dates,times etc as a guarantee the story doesn't grow and change colour with time ...

Kent you mention the 90 Mile beach-Corner inlet area as being an area for juvenile GWS whilst Sub-Adults moving further afield to seal colonies.

Corner Inlet and its offshore reefs hold large numbers of Snapper from around Oct-March
West of Wilsons Promontory theres also a lot of offshore reefs that hold Snapper including inside Western Port and Port Phillip Bay with Seal Rocks at the eastern entrance of Western-port. Do juvenile GWS travel further west of corner inlet in numbers?

Sharks around Seal Rocks area are regularly sighted.

Edit: Thanks for the info posted.

So a couple of years ago I planted a dozen identically sized cuttings off an established cultivar in a variety of positions on the same plot of land.

Some in North facing clay soils, a couple in South facing loamy gullies.

All over the shop.

Not surprisingly , virtually every plant has recorded a different rate and style of growth.

If I was to ascertain an average growth pattern from this sample of plants, I'd have to throw my hands in the air and declare I didn't have enough consistent information to establish a result.

But 60 sharks tagged of indeterminate health , vigour or true representation and we are on the road to enlightenment....

Kent, the idea of the Whiteshark coffee stand is a great idea - if you're keen on apologising to every second flat white on the asbsence of verifiable answers to their questions due to lack of empirical information.

Better you than me.

Beats working though, I guess.....

Channel 7 now boys, Matt Lees Ballina attack

Kent, have you ever heard of a tagged GWS cruising along with a dolphin pod? I little while back, over a year ago I was talking to three different people who all saw the same thing. First a Surfer/ builder working up on a headland saw a very shark looking dolphin at the rear of the pod during the day. The second Surfer/ Photographer saw exactly the same as the builder and thought it was a shark at around the same day. And the third is the proof as a couple I know were fishing around the Martin Bridge (Manning River) in their tinny, when a fin of one dolphin in the pod had a tag or transponder attached. All these sightings happened at around the same time. Kent is this possible or was it a tagged dolphin?

Thanks for your input into this crazy situation Kent.

Hi Guys..Back again..

Wharfjunkie.Great question.
Historically,we havent seen juvenile whites moving in to Westernport or the northern waters of Bass Strait,more heading down the spine from Wilsons Prom to Tas.
We are aware adults do come and go from Seal Rocks but there hasn't been a research program dedicated to tagging and monitoring large whites in Victoria but they may change shortly.
We now have a receiver out there and hopefully any of the tagged NSW sharks will be picked up over the next twelve months.
Getting back to juvenile movements.Interestingly we had a number from Ballina last year that came through Victoria,two in particular did a lap of Tasmania then through western vic and on to SA before returning through Bass Strait and back to Ballina this year..Almost to the day one year later..
The others spent the majority of their time in central waters between Tasmania and Vic and only one from memory spent any time in the northern waters.
This year,one of the Ballina subadult sharks has gone through Bass Strait and on to SA and three others have been off the eastern side of Wilsons Prom and Flinders Island.

Blowin.Interesting comparison mate but only one issue.Plants have their roots set firmly to the ground so are restricted to the nutrients and water available to that area meaning growth rates will vary..Sharks however just pack up the bongos and move on when conditions don't favour them,always following a food source.
Given optimal food reserves,those animals will achieve up to 300 mm annually we know that from the one examined but, unless we either recapture one of the animals tagged or another caracass become available from a tagged animal with OCT injected,its difficult to get an across the board estimate of growth potential..
Certainly here in the southern ocean where food and nutrients are plentiful there is every reason they would achieve that 300mm no problem.

Hi Kent, glad you like my idea of establishing a comprehensive database, but a bit confused on your take that it would be "labour intensive to set up".
I typed up those list of questions in 15 min, and although not complete and very general in nature, I would have thought with the amount of political and state/federal/council credibility at stake, some relatively small amount of funding/scientific work to establish an online database would not be rocket science.
Thinking aloud, there are at least numerous stakeholders who are frustrated and looking for solutions. If approached on the basis that their knowledge and assistance is invaluable (which it would be), I bet they would be keen to participate.
One only has to look at the forum that Nick Carroll chaired is evidence of that. Specific data forms from surfers, divers, fishing (beach, rock, boat, trawler), lifeguards, police, ambulance, hospital. Even anybody out there who can contribute by providing first hand reliable data from photos, videos or sworn statements can play a valuable part.
What good is the van and a whole lot of these forum chats if there is no correlation, cross referencing and ability to grow our knowledge to see if any patterns can be identified.
Freeride would be the perfect candidate for some funded go at a project like this....jeez even Swellnet could be the 'go to' site hosting the online forms and database. That would drive some serious add revenue their way!

Cull dick heads! 20 to 30 per State per Year! You can't make friends with your Enemies! Wake up! Clowns!

Cull! 20 to 30 a year per State! Idiots!

I hope it's not your Little Princess who gets Chomped! Drink your Coffee!

Thanks for the responses and further info. Always good to get some perspective.

I've actually been pursued by a Bronze Whaler while surfing alone (on a wave is when I finally realised something was up) (semi-high tide) clear sunny day, while in Western Port. I had this witnessed by two other blokes about to join me from the cliff-top and I obviously came in once I realised what was going on. They stated it was a dolphin and being right next to the thing I was of a differing opinion.

I would say a good comparison to shark behaviour is like the king's of the jungle in the African savanna regions, the Lion's, Cheetah's roam and follow the wild heard's of animals and pick of the weakest or easiest meal. I have found surfing alone is one way to always increase your potential of attack.

I think also people fishing nearby is always problematic as the by-catch etc will attract bigger and bigger fish. Maybe even the shade of the boat? I heard sharks in general can get sun-burnt on really hot sunny days?

Thanks again, an insightful conversation even just sharing stories and seeing how some of these shark interactions come about. I am not sure if anyone has read or hear of this book (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/91362.The_Devil_s_Teeth) but I had a look through it myself and found that the research by these guys definitely left me wondering how such an ancient animal must find us (with all our bits and pieces of boats, surf-ski's and surf-boards) just coming on through their territory and they continue on as they always have...

Tis why I hate reading about the solution's touted as drum-lines and shark nets when really, humans need to deter them in a manner that nature does...rather than just kill them all out.

That said, you do fight for your life when you're in a situation such as Mick Fanning was not so long ago.

Thanks again.

Timm.