If you haven't had a hip op , how about go find a river or a peak to yourself or just leave the paddle on the beach....so sad to see these legends go down this road. Would they have put up with these in their day......not a chance !

Calling sets out to the crew, lol.
The only time this happens is with pricks who try to bluff you in to the wrong one. Calling the bluff is very effective here because when you say thanks mate but it's all yours, they have to go.
As for SUPs, fuck me dead, each summer there's at least a 50% increase of mainly old fat dudes. And most of em will bail in front of you if they get caught by a set.

The best thing about SUPs is that most of them are pretty hopeless and probably get less waves than if they were on standard equipment.......they are the modern equivalent of the seventies surf ski.

Be interesting to see what effect SUPS have long term on the evolution of surfing.

Around here, fat old dudes on SUPS have colonised most of the easy learning spots that kids used to learn to surf at. Kids can't get a wave where there's 20 old blokes with out of control egos on boats.

Maybe we'll have to instigate some kind of BladeRunner style death squads for old pricks.

I got a SUP with one purpose in mind. Having fun when its 1ft and onshore. I'm a big believer in matching equipment to conditions and in a perfect world it would be short board everyday. Having said that, riding all forms of craft makes you hyper aware of the stated issues and makes sure you aren't the one people are complaining about. Learning to SUP anywhere near another human is akin to criminal neglect. Your need for good waves is proportional to your skill - its easy to find a vacant bit of beach when the waves are rubbish

After I got 9 stitches in my Jaw , I took a new view of people trying to surf extremely large pieces of foam shaped like a surfboard . Its cool, but here is my list of reasons to feel SORRY FOR these poor sods.....

*they usually have a back/ knee / hip / other problem
*they usually have no or limited wave/ocean knowledge
*some had this knowledge but lost it due to corporate commitments
*many come from "protected" upbringings and are now free to do
out there , adventure sports but only have 'normal people' balance when
standing on a moving object , not like us shortboard degenerates who wasted
the best part of 10 years learing to surf properly
*most are greedy all the time ,in and out of the water

Some ex surfers turn to bodyboarding , kneeboarding bodysurfing etc due to
physical limitations. By doing this they retain intimacy with the wave face.
Good on 'em for doing so.They looked preety stoked from what I can see.

These are only my observations and some will be offended , but probably
not as offended as the next SUP victim.

Stu, can you or someone give us regular folk any info on council regs etc that may apply anywhere. I was led to believe Byron Council placed a ban on SUP use at The Pass after a young bloke suffered major head trauma from one of these abominations.

P.S. if you are on an SUP when Im surfing , I'm going to burn you , again and again.
*

Main concern for the Sups is when a legrope breaks and the board goes through the lineup especially with kids and summer.

I was out at Currumbin with Dale Chapman (SUP manufacturer) and explained the rules for SUPS. The normal surfing rules do not apply because of the ability to easily catch waves, so Sups have absolutely no rights in the water and you are allowed to drop in on them at any time. Sounded fair. Same for goaters as well.

I agree with almost all comments here regarding SUPs, they're generally ridden by inexperienced surfers and are dangerous and often lack respect.

But is hard not to draw a comparison with the renaissance of Mals in the 80's when blokes who really couldn't surf or were learning to surf took up Mals as they were easier.....

At 47yrs of age and after countess days, hours, weeks and years, I've done my time in the water and I prefer my 6'1" these days because its faster, turns better and you are closer and more in touch with the wave (its just more fun), but there was a time where i hadn't seen the light and surfed those Mal things.....however very quickly learnt to not be greedy and be considerate and skillfully avoid others.

I still have plenty of them in the shed but can't bring myself to get on them anymore, even when its tiny, I prefer my 5'8" fish.

But here in is the lesson, (excluding old blokes who used to be able to surf and now just hog waves on fat boaty boards) SUP's are allowing a whole new batch of people to surf who find a normal surfboard too hard, the surf industry is encouraging it as its more people to sell shit to so it wont stop. I'm going to do what was done to me in my early days, skillfully teach them etiquette and surfers code/respect and if they cant get it or are belligerent then I will show them/teach them a lesson (without injury) so they can become better and part of our kind..... oh, and in the mean time I will be bloody wary when a SUP kook is in the line, as I don't need a head injury like Peter Pan!!!

I agree with almost all comments here regarding SUPs, they're generally ridden by inexperienced surfers and are dangerous and often lack respect.

But is hard not to draw a comparison with the renaissance of Mals in the 80's when blokes who really couldn't surf or were learning to surf took up Mals as they were easier.....

At 47yrs of age and after countess days, hours, weeks and years, I've done my time in the water and I prefer my 6'1" these days because its faster, turns better and you are closer and more in touch with the wave (its just more fun), but there was a time where i hadn't seen the light and surfed those Mal things.....however very quickly learnt to not be greedy and be considerate and skillfully avoid others.

I still have plenty of them in the shed but can't bring myself to get on them anymore, even when its tiny, I prefer my 5'8" fish.

But here in is the lesson, (excluding old blokes who used to be able to surf and now just hog waves on fat boaty boards) SUP's are allowing a whole new batch of people to surf who find a normal surfboard too hard, the surf industry is encouraging it as its more people to sell shit to so it wont stop. I'm going to do what was done to me in my early days, skillfully teach them etiquette and surfers code/respect and if they cant get it or are belligerent then I will show them/teach them a lesson (without injury) so they can become better and part of our kind..... oh, and in the mean time I will be bloody wary when a SUP kook is in the line, as I don't need a head injury like Peter Pan!!!

don't ride a shortboard in mal waves and then complain that mals and SUPS are getting all the waves.
if you're riding a shorboard in conditions that a SUP can go out in, then maybe that's a sign your riding the wrong board for the conditions. change your board to suit the waves or find waves to suit your board that don't suit SUPs.

"They shouldn't have cut Kanga loose on a ten foot surfboard"

Sorry to dissapoint you CHOOK and HAKO...this was in pumping 6' (foot) surf. If anyone was on innapropriate equipment it was the punter on his SUP.
Oh by the way HAKO...where I surf, you would not get DEEP enough to attempt sticking your paddle or any other part of your "rig"up anyones coit.

Problem being, well over half these peanuts would never go to any of these websites or forums, never read any of this information and have absolutely no idea or understanding of etiquette. Most have never surfed, couldn't surf or just found it too hard. So, "wow that looks fun, I'll give that a go". A classic case of "ambition outweighing ability".
Another problem is they will witness the free for all and lack of respect out in the water and believe that that is the "norm" so there in continues the problem.
I have witnessed many SUP'ers with ability and respect out in the water. I would estimate that all of them are competent surfers, so we can't can't categorise them all as incompetent clowns, it's just the fact that there are so many incompetent clowns on them these days with absolutely no idea.

Surfing etiquite is pretty bloody simple.
If someone is on your "inside".....deeper than you . DON'T DROP IN !
If you feel tired because you've shoulder hopped onto soooo many waves ,
take a break and let the "normal " surfers on their silly little short-boards
have a go.

I have a mate who was really dangerous on a normal board, used to bail and clean everybody up. Had to take him aside and explain:

1. No idea
2. No co-ordination for surfboards.

He then went out and got a SUP and doesn't come anywhere near us on any other surfers. He has been told and accepted he can' get near us with that piece of shite.

Other old local (good surfer not short of ego or aggression when required and a solicitor to boot), had an altercation with his SUP and some young surfers. They called him out in the car park so he clobbered one of them and was up on assault charges. I think they settled out of court. Guess what, the SUPPERS both work with each other now and don't come anywhere near us. Moral of the story, stay the fuck away from surfers (I don't usually swear on this forum but these dicks drive me to it).

Hahaha............didn't twig that PCS was a mal rider, no dignity in riding a mal, ahhh....priceless. :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

i see what's going on here. it's the old divide and conquer strategy -- turning one lot of "footboarders" against another. we are all just being manipulated by kneeboarders.
i guess we had it coming -- we claimed to have invented the shortboard, the quad, the twinny, the fish, and even the thruster, when in reality those designs were all taken from kneeboards.

yep, the real enemy is those kneeboarders, not mals or SUPs. kneelos are too lazy to even stand up, but cunning enough to turn us against each other. and all the while we're arguing , they're out there riding waves left and right with out any backhand.

hey adam 12,i get the reference.kanga winning the oke at express

Ten points to toneranger

Its a swell time to publish the surfers code of conduct.
Rob Coneeley and Roscoe Kermode implemented it in Margaret River did some excellent drawings accompanying the code
Displaying L plates could be another option

Hako , just to let you know I don't ride a mal. I also don't dislike mal riders, or any other type of surfcraft rider when I'm surfing.
If you have been surfing for 40 years you would have been dropped in on by someone , thats a given. No one likes it. By the sound of it you are in your declining years. However if you can remember when you surfed on a short board people on longer , wider,less agile surfcraft would occasionally use this paddle advantage to get a run up
on the approaching set and run off with one .After a while other riders get the shits.

So just a reminder Hako , you got me wrong , I don't ride a mal ! Secondly , if you see the comments here , I'm not on my own.
Its cool Hako , ride the bloody thing , just don't be greedy or dangerous.

Mal riders in general have never worried me as they are usually unfit and a mal was an easy fix for them and at my age I can still out paddle them on a small board.

Quite a few ex pro's surf sups, so we can't all be kooks.

I surf a spot regularly (around Torquay area) which is frequented by sups but is also great for 'short' boards on a large swell. I must admit the guys who surf sups are very, very good - under age champions etc. But they always leave and take their share - It's the rider not the craft, that is the problem.

On the other hand I surfed 'Pines' (on a mal) a while back and the attitude of the sup and general mal riders was appauling. Middle aged (I'm older) puffed up, balloon ego's, It was pathetic.

OHV500 nail on the head champ its the person not the surf craft thats the problem. Theres people who carry on about SUP's, Mals and other short boarders taking all the waves then be snakes themselves. Half of the whining is not about someone ruining the line up but more about said whiner not being able to catch as many waves as possible.

Surfed with people on SUPs, Mals, Shortboards, Kneeboards, Boogs ridden those boards myself never had an issue. Usually those with a selfish attitude bring issues to themselves and those who have a predisposition that those who ride SUP's or Mals are kooks can sometimes be humbled when the waves are pumping and wannabe hero all of a sudden sees previous SUP rider surfing a short board whilst they are flapping around on the shoulder.

The last half a dozen times I have surfed with a competent SUP rider, they have taken a wave every set, despite the 20 plus people mostly waiting their turn to surf the same break. If the SUP rider just took a wave every second set, or third set if there is more people, then there would not be quite the exasperation.

It's very hard for a SUP rider not to use and abuse the enormous advantage they have, especially when there is a few of them out.
In fact, I'd say it's just about humanly impossible for human beings not to exploit advantages at their disposal.

I tend not to be surfing where the SUPs and mals are. If they are riding them I'll only go out there if there are no other options around.

Sure enough though, there will be some out there when conditions suit shortboards and they can be a nuisance. Shortboards have their advantages too. You can work with that.

It's generally not that hard to out-think your fellow surfers. :-)

As a SUP rider, it's been very interesting to read your comments, i wasn't aware of how bad SUP reputation is among short boarders but it makes sense, it is understandable given the amount of damage that can be made.
The one thing i absolutely agree with the comments above is that an inexperienced SUP should clearly stay away from any line up; a lot of people with absolutely no experience in surfing stand up on a SUP and think they can get in the waves and do whatever they want, they have no knowledge of surfing etiquette and security, they're clearly a danger to everybody else. When i see beginners on a SUP getting too close to a line up, i am the first one to tell them to stay away, and explain why.
The thing is SUP surfing is new and there's a LOT of education to do in that regard; SUP lessons are provided on flat water, not surfing, so people just get in the surf without having a clue.
When i go SUP surfing, i have 4 rules:
- Find an uncrowded peak where possible
- For every wave at the peak, catch 3 smaller waves on the inside (the ones no one wants). That way, i only show up at the peak every 3 or 4 sets.
- Never sit in the middle of the pack (too dangerous), always sit on the outside.
- Sit down waiting for a set and chat up.
I hope those rules limit to a maximum the impact i have on the lineup.
Not all of us are beginners, some us try to blend in, follow proper surfing etiquette, and some of us paddle boards that require the balance of a monkey to stay up on (equivalent of short boards versus long boards in surfing).
Hope we can make it work.\
Cheers,
Alex.

Alex its the greedy fuckwits that give you guys a bad name plenty of short boarders and mal riders are greedy fuckwits too. Its up too surfers on all craft to enforce etiquette unfortunately most just turn the other cheek and whine afterwards.

Totally fucking agree wharfie!

"Its up too surfers on all craft to enforce etiquette unfortunately most just turn the other cheek and whine afterwards."

100%

It's up to all of us to pull up the fuckwits in the lineup. And, we've all been guilty of some offences at one time or another. A quick word from or to a mate is often all it takes to correct things. I've been on both ends.

Isn't it fun sharing a lineup with a crew all taking their turn. No agro, no "heroes". Fuck, I've had some fun surfs with a mixed crew. Old blokes on Mal's - fuck, gotta respect some old dude still surfing in his late 70's after hip surgery. SUPS, who take their turn, and sheesh, even the cripples!

Best surfer is the one having the most fun! Right?

A Few Fun Waves - that's what its all about!

I was just thinking that the "problem" may have sorted itself out geographically in south australia.On the mid the Sup's surf U turns and mals surf three poles with the odd exception.Down south Sups seem to stick around Dunny block primarily.pretty good arrangement

"Etiquette?" Well a certain respect for others doesn't go astray but neither does some of the old mongrel dog eat dog stuff. Let the best get the best and stuff the rest was the culture I grew up in and I miss its raw edge. It is hardly in my interest to advocate a more competitive approach but the "After you Aloysius" stuff still does my head in. SUPs? If you can't take off behind them and scare the bejesus out of them, you're not really trying.

Never had a positive experience surfing with SUPs.

Ever.

SUP = Surf Usurpation Pontoons.

SUP riders are the most wilfully ignorant fucktards to ever desecrate our oceans.

Witness Old mate akesy...." What's that ? SUPs are resented due to their over representation on each and every wave they breaks during any session they are present at ? Well I never...."

I'm especially fond of the 50 metre sprint to the inside of the next peak over as a set approaches....not.

Yes Akesy you are saying the right words but the fact is, SUPs tend to muscle in when riding waves. If they are out there just enjoying scenery which tends to be the majority, then it ain't a problem. But for those that are trying to ride these things on a wave don't know what they are missing. To have a board more suited to riding the wave - short board, mini mal, mal is just 100 per cent more enjoyment.
Riding a SUP is more of challenge and work out. If you have crook knees, bad hips, slower reflexes then get a mal and enjoy the ride.

In my experience, 90% of surfers are cool guys, follow the rules, up for a chat or say g'day, fun to surf with, no worries. 10% are fuckwits. It's the exact opposite wrt SUP riders. 90% fucktards, 10% no problems.

stunet wrote:

He's squared off against angry mokes, stood up to insolent journalists, even jumped countries for the pro surfing cause, so it's safe to say Ian Cairns isn't shy of confrontation. But a recent exchange in the surf - Cairns lives in California - gave him reason to reflect on lineup etiquette, specifically the unwritten rules of SUPs.

No, we don't know what happened in the surf, anyway it's besides the point, 'cause what he's listed is sound advice that takes into account the inherit advantages of SUPs. Much as longboarders and surf skis learnt to curtail their paddling advantages for the sake of lineup harmony, so to does Cairns think SUPs should beware of their advantages. Worth noting that some of his advice applies to all surfcraft not just SUPs.

Take it away Kanga...

Find a peak with the fewest surfers out
Always spend time on the beach surveying the surf and selecting the wave you want to ride. This gives you the chance to find a wave with the fewest surfers on it, so that, from the get-go, you are reducing the potential for conflict.

Paddle out around the break
Because you have been watching, you have seen that there are sets and lulls and that there are channels that run out around the breaking peaks. Paddle out in the channel during a lull. If there are constant sets of waves and the paddle out is too hard, find an easier wave to ride.

Do not get in the way of a rider on the wave
When you’re paddling out always look for a rider on a wave. He has right of way, so try to let him surf past you rather than paddling into his path. Getting run over is not fun, can cause injury, damage to your board and is a major no-no in surfing.

Do not bail your board
If you’re caught inside of a set of waves, you need to learn to kick your board over the wave, rather than bailing out. Bailing sends your board over the falls and it may hit someone behind you. Kicking it over probably means the board will be next to you, as you come up. If there are further set waves, turn the board to the beach, look for people that you may hit if you get pushed to the beach and hang on the tail of the board to control your equipment without letting it go. Another idea is to hold the leash as close to the tail of the board as possible and pull the board through the whitewater.

Check who's in the lineup
As you paddle out, survey the lineup to see who is out already. These guys are in front of you, in line for the next waves, so be cool and remember them. Make sure that you identify the alpha dog in the pack. He is the one you may have problems with, so you need to be ultra respectful and surprise him with kindness.

Wait your turn
Because you know who is out and who needs waves before you, you can easily figure out when your turn in the rotation for waves is about to come up. You get one try at this. If you screw up this wave, you’re done for good, so make sure you make the wave and surf it good.

Give waves away
Sometimes, even if it’s really your turn, give a good wave to someone else who looks hungry. Often they will paddle just to test you, so back off and generously let them go, but make sure you both know that you’re just being cool and generous. It’s a rare occurrence and will build goodwill.

Call sets
Because you’re standing, you can see the set waves coming before anyone, so tell the crew that a set is coming and which wave is better. In this way, you dish up some good waves to the crew and they start to think you’re not so stupid, not cool yet, but not so bad.

Sit down and talk
Constant paddling through a crew in the lineup is seen as threatening to the surfers, so chill out, sit down and wait for your turn. This makes you human and not an eyesore and you may actually start up a conversation with some of the guys out there. There is a lot of interest in SUP, but it's not cool yet, so don’t be offended if no one wants to know all about how awesome your board is etc. Just be sociable.

Be aware of your wave count
As you get a few waves, be really aware if you’re getting too many of the really good waves. It’s easy to do and you start to look like a wave hog, which is exactly the opposite of our intention. Get a few good ones and move along. That will make you some friends for next time you’re out there.

Do NOT drop in
If someone is already riding the wave, don’t even paddle for it, don’t hover on the top of the wave, don’t take off in front of someone and flick out and certainly don’t ride a whole wave and stuff someone in the whitewater. If you do this you’re back in the doghouse and may be asked to leave.

Do NOT back-paddle
Be super aware of who is out, where they are and whose turn it is for the next ride. Do not paddle around someone sitting and waiting for a wave. It is considered very aggressive in regular surfing. You’re on probation and this will get you serious heat and a trip to the beach [Note: back-paddling in the States is called snaking here].

Be aware of surfers paddling out when you're riding
As you’re paddling for a wave, scope the length of the wave for any surfer who’s paddling out, who may potentially paddle in front of you. Although the surfer riding the wave has priority, you’re on a Sup and will be in the wrong if there’s a mix up, because you’re on a Sup. So, be vigilant to avoid any impacts or close calls with surfers.

Always control your equipment
Bailing your board is bad form. Try to paddle over waves, or launch your board over the whitewater, but do not dive and let the Sup wash in on the whitewater to the end of your leash. Every surfer sees a Sup as a dangerous object and thinks of us as kooks bailing their boards. This adds fuel to the fire. Learn how to hold onto your leash near the tail of the board to pull it through waves. Be really careful of others in the lineup if you fall riding a wave. Hitting another surfer in the lineup is instant dismissal and adds fuel to the surfer debate that Sup boards should not be out there.

Increase wave count by catching wide waves
If you’re smart about your paddling and really scope a lineup, you may find that there are good wide or deep waves that are not readily available to the surfers in the primary lineup and this is the way you can increase your wave-count considerably, riding waves that before had gone un-ridden. To do this you will really need to sharpen your spin and go skills, but once you get this dialed, you’re on your way to getting way more waves, without every impacting the established lineup and the surfers out there.

Move around to other peaks
Do not wear out your welcome. Get a few waves and move on. There are usually many other waves in a surf area, so get a few and move to another peak and practice your magic on this new crew of surfers. This is a sign of respect and will be recognized and rewarded with future bonus waves.

The lineup is a close-knit community
Most surfers go to the same spot over and over and they become “locals” out there and make friends and acquaintances with the other surfers who frequent the break. You can be part of this local crew if you’re cool, friendly, don’t hog waves, generally understand and respect the locals and don’t act like the average Sup kook. Have fun out there!

And for those who think he's a one-eyed stand up with a chip on his shoulder, here's Cairns taking his own medicine: