Breaking down Kelly's 4.17 wave - video
The WSL announcers attempt to explain Kelly's baffling 4.17 score for the manouvre of the event at Trestles. Peter Mel sides with the judges, Strider dissents.
I agree with Strider.
Strange days indeed.
PS: For comparisons with other 4.17 waves see comments below.
Comments
it was a 10 point ride. totally new manouvre in surfing. it's a bit like the motocross boys who totally detach from their bikes mid air and then reattach on landing. scoring this as a 4.17 is so bureaucractic and stickler for the technical rules of judging . incomplete manouvre???
It may not have been a 'completed' move but it was a reasonably seamless transition nonetheless. And he finished the wave really well with a couple of great turns. I am baffled how this is just a 4.17. Somewhere in the 8's for me at least.
Although, if he'd been given a high score, then everyone'd be whinging about how Kelly is always 'overscored' and 'favoured by the judges'. Hilarious to see commentary on Facebook stating this is apparently now a clear sign that the 'WSL doesn't want Slater any more'. Ha!
How about putting together a clip of all the other 4.1 rides in this event, matched to Kelly's sic punt and down the line ripping. Only then will we see how badly the judges on high blew this one...... Yew!
You can't score him that well for that rotation-to-body-surfing-to-boogey-boarding-to-surfing-again move, but he did some other turns that deserved more. I agree with the 6.5.
I should add, let's not get carried away thinking it was an actual move or that he meant to do that. It was just an amazing recovery.
It is interesting though to think about what is a make and what is not. I remember JJF lost his board in the air at Trestles last year (I think in that round 4 heat that he totally schooled everyone in) and then landed with both feet well north of the centre point of his board. It's not possible to continue surfing with both feet that far forward so he had to totally reset his stance. You could argue that was not a make as he couldn't transition straight into the next maneuver.
However I assume most of us would agree feet on the board = made it, whereas doing some body surfing, then boogey boarding, then returning to surfing just isn't the same.
Then again, surfing is about riding waves and Kelly managed to stay with the wave so isn't that a make? If so, he should have been scored modestly for a very messy air plus the other turns on the wave which surely exceeded 4.17? As I said, maybe 6.5?
And every single contest consists of highly scored backside shack riders down on one knee, holding onto their rails..... Just like a boogieboarder.
Who cares how Slater landed - the mere fact he pulled off the recovery and rode out the rest of the wave was amazing enough. That's the thing about Kelly - he does things no-one else does and doesn't get rewarded. A couple of years ago he was the only one who found a decent tube ride at Bells - no other surfer managed one. A cutback at Teahupoo or Cloudbreak (1 of the 2) as well. Results? More dud scores. It's only bad luck and bad judging at critical times that have cost Kelly another couple of world titles. Good on Kelly for pulling out of Europe (if he does) - the WSL is the big loser and deservedly so. They'll lose their no.1 drawcard.
Excellent point Rolls, would very much like to see back to back comparisons of other 4's and 5's. Totally agree with Ben, the move was highly critcal and the transition was smooth, completed in my eyes.
4.17 Bollocks!
No it wasn't a 10, probably not even a 9, but it was well north of 4.17 and would've kept Slater in the heat. What I think it shows is how stifling the judging crirteria is when applied literally.
A few things to note:
When it happened the beach crowd erupted.
So to did everyone who saw it via webcast (bit of license there, let it roll OK)
Immediately following the wave the WSL replayed it about 8 times.
It made just about every news outlet.
Every surfer - and it would appear, every non-surfer - knows how hard that recovery was, it had a 'degree of difficulty' in itself, and was also 'innovative', two of the judging criteria that could've been used if they weren't so robotic and willing to reward spontaneity and improvisation.
That's the crux of the issue. The manner in which Slater "recovered" and the sheer difficulty of the feat - it was freakish. Whether or not he landed on his knee(s) or whatever he continued on to pull off more moves and ride out the wave. The crowd reaction says it all - biggest cheer of the day must equate to something? Whether it was luck, skill or innovation, it deserved more recognition than the 4.17
when i first watched this wave gut instinct was a 12. I mean like currans topturn disconnection at j-bay all those years ago to full recovery it should have been celebrated as one of the great moves and i reckon it will be. how difficult is it to do in a heat? i mean we want free surfing in heats -thats the ultimate!!!!! 4-5 reos to beach is nice but slightly repetitious and safe. me thinks BS on this score and i think slater died another small competitve death on this wave. Just go and free surf /chase the best waves in the world man leave this crap scene to the noncreative ...join ando,creed,rasta and be free!!!!!
Comparisons from this comp. Each vid starts at the wave in question.
Nat Young Rd 5 4.17:
https://youtu.be/IwwDjhBk2Qg?t=1m34s
Taj Burrow Rd 1 4.17:
https://youtu.be/oJHcXtqWALo?t=4m56s
Italo Ferreira Rd 4 4.27:
https://youtu.be/NIxgrB13cas?t=1m41s
Excellent work, Stu. On 'ya!
Ya Taj did a speedline snap and a floater. Kelly did a 360 and a huge fully vert snap. Should have got like 5.5 or something just for those and then surely something for the funky move? Either way, he was underscored. Should have been 6.5.
Feck, compared to any of these waves above, Slater's shoulda been a 12!!!
But seriously, it was AT LEAST a high 6 low 7. I agree it was an incomplete maneuver but to come out of it and still pull off a decent ride is brilliant. And I completely agree with Strider. Slater's mindset after riding tat wave and then being given that score lost him the heat from the get go. It just sent the wrong message to Slater.
Mick's previous two waves before this (which scored better than Slater's 4.17) were in fact safe, low risk waves and in fact very average/boring to watch. Kelly's 4.17 on the other hand was amazing to watch.
Stu, the wave comparisons you've just posted show how ridiculous Slater's score was while Pete Mel, who I believe runs the big wave tour for WSL, looks like a paid puppet.
Have to disagree with the sentiment here.
The air to fall off (that's what it was) to recovery garnered, and was worth, zero points because it was incomplete. The difference compared to the Curren/JJF examples cited above is Kelly ended up on his guts and that's a critical no no.
If you assume everything that happened before Kelly stood up for the second time was worth zero the 4.17 was right, that backhand spinner was worth very little (imagine if DeSouza did it, he'd be getting rightly heckled) and two good reos but way on the inside on the least critical part of the wave.
It was a freakish recovery in terms of speed of reflexes, but owing too much to chance about where his board landed once he lost control. And he did lose control completely, the analogy to a superman air above in Moto X is again a bad one because that's deliberate. Not a in million years did KS mean to do this.
Except taking the above assumption, judges would give 0.00 for a blown takeoff, but they don't, they give a nominal point score. And then you've got instances where surfers get thrown reasonable scores for closeout tubes, the most recent instance was Julian Wilson scoring a 9.43 in Fiji (he got barrelled once, then pulled in again, travelled for a while in a big pit, but ultimately fell). Last year at Chopes Owen Wright advanced through a heat without making a wave, and it's not uncommon that surfers would keep a closeout barrel in their two wave tally at Pipe.
Again, under that assumnption the wave would score 0.00.
Yeah but Trestles aint Pipe or Cloudbreak so you get zero points for degree of difficulty in negotiating the drop.
I'd also think that should you see someone take off at either of those waves, end up on their guts mid wave before getting back their feet then they'll likewise be penalised.
You're missing the point Mick; no-one gets a 0.00 for a ride ever, no matter where it is. If your hands leave the deck you get scored and you get points.
Think we sort of agree then Stu, it's just that when do you consider Kelly's hands left the rails - first time or second time? Clearly for me, it's the latter.
If you took your read on it and extended the thinking - someone takes off at J Bay and stands up and lays back down 10 times with nothing in between, do they finish with a 10 point ride? 1 point for every time they got to their feet?
May in this instance be useful as a theoretical example to think of Kelly's wave out of 20 - what would the first act have scored if he flicked off straight after the recovery? Then what's the second act worth? Still think he'd only end up somewhere in the 4 to 5 points per wave range out of 20.
Cheers mate.
Unbelievable surfing. Unbelievable scoring.
They've got their priorities completely out of whack if they don't reward a move like that.
Clearly it's all about how 'perfect' your surfing is according to the textbook. If it continues down this path it will end up like so-called 'artistic' gymnastics which long ago lost all elements of personal or artistic expression and and most of its audience too.
I think the judges discount scores heavily for recoveries. In their eyes it shows less than perfect technique in the first place. Think how often a less than perfect (but big) air gets an average score.
But we all know recovering is a skill in its self. I can only guess layback snaps etc came about as a recovery, not a move per se.
Unless I was Filipe, I'd be sticking to big turns if I was WCT competitor.
The judges massively favour the speed/power/flow criterion over degree of difficulty and innovation.
Just for interest sake:
At last year's Tahiti comp Owen Wright progressed through Round 1 with two unmade waves, both closeout tubes with no turns, just pulled in and got swallowed.
First unmade wave 3.67.
The second 2.67.
it was a recovery not a made maneuver. Kelly is a freak and everyone knows that. Simple fact is he fell. Reminds me of that desert point? wave of mikey wright(i think) How do you think that would of been scored in a comp?
Got to agree with MickJ - the air itself doesn't get points as its an unmade maneuver. Maybe there is some nominal points for the take off but not a lot up to the point he does the 360. With the air removed in the same way any other take-off, race to missed punt would score (1.5 or something??)
The balance of the wave needs to then be compared to the surfing calibre in that heat as the initial scoring rides provide a range/benchmark for the rest of the scores to account for condition changes. Not something I'm going to look up but I imagine a 5ish for that wave would be about right. So seems a little on the low side but who gets scored big for a 360 and 1 good snap on the inside? These are always the creme on the top after some big outside moves.
He fucked up an air forward and landed on his guts. Nothing special about it.
Just went on to the wsl website to see there rules and judging criteria, now they state difficulty of manouvres and progression as one of there main scoring criteria ! Ok so I'm pretty sue what ever you call that move looked pretty difficult to me , progressive ? Well I have not seen it done before ever ! Folllwed up by a carving 360 also progressive then a powerful backhand snap , so you would have to argue that the wave had all the judges criteria ! I am just baffled still as to how it got a 4.17 and we all love mick but you can pretty much see what he is going to do before he has done it
So can we agree that he basically got screwed on a technicality (that the move was not technically completed) although I think its fair to say the majority of the surfing population and even non surfers were blown away by what they saw.
My advise to Kelly if you happen to be reading if you want another world tittle.
1. Play it safe and get in as many decent turns to the beach as possible, just don't fall, no need to even go for a big move in the shorie these days just tap that last section, think coming down with the lip type floater.
2. Wait for the wave of the day, then play it safe like lesson 1. and just don't fall and let the judges score the wave not the surfing.
3. Airs can score but only if your a brazzo so Kelly your days of airs scoring are over sorry.
4. Don't bother with barrels unless its a barrel type wave then its all that mater, but barrels at places like Bells etc don't score especially if the exit is not clean, you can make the unmake able but it means jack unless the exit is clean so don't try to stay in there to long and wait until the last minute, exit while the door is still open wide.
5. Once again making the un-makable means nothing this aint free surfing so don't bother save that shit for youtube, once again play it safe, tap, tap, tap and the odd wrap and you will progress.
Sorry forgot one of the most important ones.
6. Don't forget to claim, okay its not something you and us Aussies like to do unless its really called for, but its 2015 and you need to suck it up to the judges, plus they don't have a clue..so if you claim anything and everything, once in a while it adds a point or two too your score.
mat wilkinson used the claim to great effect against ricardo christie . Ricardo throwing buckets wilko throwing claims , disgraceful judjing again
WSL is a complete joke.
I've seen Julian Wilson and Ace do some hideous cringe worthy claims Indo D.
It's not a pretty sight is it? Whoever it is
Love the sarcasm behind the barreling points (and the others for that matter too!).
In a way, once you've made the drop (key assumption here) it is easier to get barreled on a gnarly reef (think Indo or South Pacific) than Bells. I live in Torquay and can count the barrels I've made around here (not including minor head dips etc) on one hand. In contrast, I've had much better luck in when on surf trips in warmer places.
My guess is you can't surf very well or you only moved to Torquay last week
In soccer, if someone shoots at goal and misses completely the target but the ball deflects on another player and the ball goes into the goal it still counts right?!
I think its a rad maneuver . whos to say if it was planned or not . The best things in surfing are when you don't think you're going to make it
I'm with Stu, surely worth some nominal score for the air attempt even if you don't score it big. Add that to rest of wave and its worthy of 6.5 at least. The 360 and the last snap are worth close to that on their own, easily better than other waves in the 4 point range.
Do we remember Parko gettings 10's at keramas even though he fell off mid cutback. Its all a joke, no consistancy
I'm with Stu too on this one. If he pulled off that wave after just doing that turn then they would most likely have thrown a 3 or so anyway. So add the extras and it had to be over a 6. If it had come out as a 6 or a 7 then it wouldn't have generated the controversy I suspect. I would have been totally ok with an 8 or more and was pretty disappointed that they threw the score out so quick without even taking much time to consider it. Why oh why do they not come out before every event with how they are going to interpret the criteria for that event. It just seems like they make it up on the fly. There's something wrong about Toledo racing multiple sections looking for a single big move. I'm sure that will look lame in years to come. And Inzider I agree about Ricardo, and Wilkos last wave didn't look the score to me. Ricardo has been desperately unlucky in the last 3 events
let's face it .it comes down to degree of difficulty versus guys going around witches hats.i luv the fact that kelly never surfs safe
Thats right Tone ranger and thats why they blew a good chance to elevate surfing to another level,every news story i saw were in awe of Kellys move and shocked that he got scored so low.......Wsl you blew it and im thinking they want Kelly gone for some reason.
I see WSL have just put up interview with slater and also Richie Porta talking about it. To me Porta just comes across as a condescending know it all and I think he's plain wrong on this one. WSL are still trying to defend it rather than admit they stuffed up. A resurf would be awesome and would rate hugely!
If Slater had received an 8+ and eliminated Fanning, I reckon the same forum would be running bitching about Slater being overscored and WSL favouring Slater!?>?
did an "esteemed" journo say 18 months ago that head judge porta would not survive the new regime.
That said Kiwi Christie has been dealt the rough end of many close calls imo, probably cause no ones watching in NZ. Should only bet on christie if its money back.
Valid point B2B regarding Christie and who's watching. there are lots of people watching in NZ but nothin compared to say Brazil. It is so obviously a manipulated joke this whole WSL debacle. Its merely a publicity machine for selling sweatshop clothing to the chump masses.
when I first saw I was impressed...the guy is supernatural....he was hanging on by the tips of his toes he pulled it off, completed the wave and threw in a 360 for good measure.....surprised to see the score for sure
So let me get this right. If Slater had landed the move on his feet but was so out of shape that he waved his arms around a bit and then fell off , he would have scored higher? I think the pro's should be encouraged to take risks with reasonable scores. please don't let surfing go back to the dark ages where one person gets to say what's good surfing and what's not
Yep he most likely would have got a 8 or 10 without even continuing and doing a few more turns.
Interesting to hear the WSL interview with Kelly and that total goose of a head judge, i guess it doesn't make a difference but seems he didn't land on his stomach but actually on his knees.
If he was a split second longer in the white water you wouldn't have even seen him get back up and he would of also scored a 8 to 10.
Why do you have to land on your feet for a trick to count? What about the classic coffin? What happens if Slater landed in a handstand and rode out? Landing with 1 toe on the board seems to be fine, so long as you can get back to your feet. So 1 toe and a finger? Top side of the foot?
I thought surfing was about riding the wave. Slater rode the wave from start to finish and did a bunch of mad shit in the middle.
Break it down a little more - Quote - Richie Porte, if he landed on his feet wow that would have been something a 10 point ride, hmmm, whats the rules say about staying on your board either on your knees or on your feet is this still falling off or staying on.
If they gave Kelly a 10 with only 2 waves riden at that stage would Mick have won ?
We will never know now will we !!!!!!!!
That was the most despicable judging of all time hands down. I seriously don't understand why wsl want Slater out completely he is the ultimate professional in and most certainly out of the water. Slater is the only surfer that mixes it up like the rules state Mick razor sharp speed ripping but totally predictable tearing it to pieces. Toledo does 30metre speed run for his air rubbish. All predictable. Even Slaters last wave if it was somebody else would of got the score required I don't understand why Slater puts up with this blatant underscoring for so long. He should do a dramatic Freddy P and leave the wsl and sit back and just watch the interest die.
Like it or not Slater is the only surfer that brings world wide credibility to surfing.
I'm with you Evo. I hope he doesn't but the WSL would be much the poorer if KS left the tour. But he's had to put up with a lot of rough calls the last couple of years.