Sand In The Engine
It's the basis for beachbreak bliss, but can you have too much of a good thing?
Sand In The Engine
Sand: It’s the final frontier of surf forecasting.
It’s a grand statement, and one that only applies to coasts where beachbreaks dominate, but stop and have a think about it. It’s 2023, powerful computers forecast swell to the nth degree, breaking it down into size, period, and direction. We know what’s going to happen up to a week before it occurs. Similarly, the wind rarely takes us by surprise; whether it be using computers or our native knowledge, we can predict that days out with startling accuracy.
Yet swell and wind are only two-thirds of the equation on a beachbreak coast. Great conditions can still fall in a heap if the sandbanks are terrible. And short of very obvious examples - say a coastal lake breaking open - there’s no real way of predicting exactly how they move about. Great banks follow a puzzling timetable, coming and going often without explanation.
Hence sand remains the great unknown, and it’s likely to stay that way for a while yet.
If you live on the East Coast, chances are you’ve seen your local beach grow an extraordinary amount over the last six months.
“Last year we could barely run Nippers during high tides,” says Steen Barnes about the state of his local beach. “Now we could set up the 100 metre sprint across the beach, and we’d still have room to spare.”
If you’ve heard of Steen before, it’s likely because of his photography around Wollongong. Steen, who lives at City Beach, rarely walks across the road without a camera in hand and has documented the local beaches through all their cycles and changes.
Right now, there’s more sand than he can ever recall. So much so, says Steen, that ”at one stage a secondary dune formed that created its own shadows.” More importantly, however, there are almost zero banks. “There are no gutters,” says Steen. “Pretty much no channels to speak of either.”
I live ten kilometres to the north of Steen and the same situation is repeated on every beach in between. In fact, it extends all the way up and down the East Coast. Gavin Scott lives on the Mid North Coast, among the East Coast’s most prized beachbreaks, and he can’t recall the banks being as bad. Again, there’s no shortage of sand. “Places that are usually stripped of sand at this time of year [early autumn] are deserts without a rock to be seen,” says Gav.
Further north, the excess of sand is playing out in different ways. As might be expected on a coastline where sand-bottomed points dominate, sand is usually seen as a blessing. “Generally sand surplus is better for wave quality on this stretch of coast than sand deficit,” explains Steve Shearer who lives at Lennox Head, yet it’s becoming borderline. “The sand excess is almost too much for Lennox Point.”
Quality aside, Steve illustrates the point by noting that through June this year and again through August, surfers could come in on sand after surfing Lennox Head - no need to negotiate the treacherous rocks. Most prominent at low tide, a rare bank had attached itself from the impact zone to the point itself without a nearshore gutter.
The East Coast currently has more sand than it’s had in a long while. It arrived after a period of heavy erosion and during a time of year when the sand volumes are traditionally at their lowest. The result has East Coast surfers wondering what the hell is going on. Why is there so much sand? Where has it come from? And why is it in such bad shape?
To these questions, we went searching for answers.
Before we get into it, a quick refresher. Though they give shape to lovely waves for playing in, sand has a more important function. Beaches serve as the defensive barrier against storms and large waves. Left untouched, beach dunes grow during times of small swell, and then absorb energy during storms. Big waves will erode the beaches, transporting the sand into the surf zone where it mitigates wave energy, making waves break further offshore.
On the East Coast, autumn and winter are when we get most of our storms, so come September beaches are traditionally at their thinnest, having survived the six month onslaught. Sand then gathers during the spring and summer swell cycles and the beaches restore their width.
As per Steen and Gav’s observation, and that of many other East Coast surfers, beaches are not just bucking that annual trend, but some are as wide as locals can remember. “They are incredibly wide at the moment,” said Dr Mitchell Harley of the Water Research Laboratory at the University of NSW in an article that appeared in the Sydney Morning Herald last month.
The same article claimed, “Bondi Beach is about 25 metres broader than it was this time last year, Manly is 26 metres wider, Coogee is 22 metres bigger and Maroubra has grown by a generous 42 metres in the past 12 months. North Narrabeen is the undisputed king of beach growth, adding a whopping 59 metres of sand since last year.”
However, as with most things, more is not always better. Many surfers that I spoke to said that, yes, their local beaches were wide, but there was also a corresponding loss of shape. A common observation was the loss of an inshore gutter, meaning at low tide the dry sand extended in one gentle slope towards the outer bank. In coastal science parlance, the outer bank was ‘welded’ to the shoreline. A bank becomes welded when wave energy is so low that it no longer carves out channels and gutters for water to escape back out to sea.
Take a look. If your beach has welded banks there’s a very good chance it’s also suffering from bad shape. Sure, good waves can still happen. Tuesday the 19th and Wednesday the 20th of September showed what can happen when swell alone - particularly a combo swell, as was the case on Tuesday - meets straight banks. Most of the time, however, the nearshore bathymetry has to do the heavy lifting and right now the architecture just isn’t in place.
If you live on the East Coast then you don’t need me to tell you that this past winter has been a lean one. You saw it with your own eyes. It makes sense why banks have attached themselves to the beach as there’s simply not been enough swell to start the pattern of water circulation.
Anecdotes are one thing, raw data is another. Actual scientific proof. And that’s what Manly Hydraulic Laboratory have supplied, charting all readings from Sydney’s wave buoy over the past 36 years. The surf wasn’t just down a little this past winter, it was down a lot.
Yet is one quiet season enough to account for the Saharan sandscape overtaking most beaches?
To answer that question I spoke to Associate Professor Ian Goodwin: surfer, sand expert, and soon-to-be-published author on a book of coastal processes. With his scientific training, Ian doesn’t see lone events, he sees patterns and cycles. Some of them are given handy names like El Niño and La Niña, while others stretch out beyond human lifespans making them hard to grasp. When everyone’s talking ‘right here, right now’, Ian’s the guy who provides historical perspective. He thinks in terms of decades, centuries, millenia.
“This current state of beach volume is typical for transition to El Niño years,” says Ian. “Very similar to 1982-83 and 1993-1994.” This is similar to something Steen said: “I’ve seen this type of buildup before, it’s not unheard of, though I’d have to go back to the 1980s - yet even then it wasn’t as extreme as now.”
One reason for the current situation, explains Ian, is that for the last three years - i.e during the La Niña three-peat - there was very little sand transport. Beaches were being eaten away by relentless easterly energy; the sand taken offshore. The current sand volume, says Ian,” is delayed sand transport during la Nina.”
Usually the transition out of La Niña is more subtle than has occurred this time, hence the seemingly sudden appearance of sand, and lots of it. However, what’s also boosted the situation is the wave climate over the past six months. You see, the graph above about wave height only tells part of the story about the East Coast’s past winter. Sure, it might’ve been small, but what swell did come ashore was often long period, generated by the same Southern Ocean storms that flicked the switch on Victoria’s season of plenty.
Long period swells - particularly sustained periods of them - are the key to sand returning to shore. “They’re essential for supplying sand to our coast,” says Ian. The reason for this comes down to a bit of ocean science, namely long period energy traveling deeper in the water column. It’s the reason long period swells refract earlier and more acutely - they feel the ocean bed further out to sea.
Similarly, long period waves disturb the ocean floor further out to sea, cycling sand and silt towards the coast. “Waves interact with the seabed at a depth of half the wavelength,” explains Ian, “so let's say we've got a 150-metre wavelength, those waves are going to be mobilising sand at 75 metres water depth.”
Therefore, the sand that had been taken offshore during La Niña has had six months of near-uninterrupted migration towards the coast. There have been no big swells to move it back offshore so we've had a relentless constructive phase with sand steadily piling up on the beaches. Plus, and this is where things get very interesting, there’s also been an uninterrupted flow of sand mobilising slowly across continental plain towards the mainland.
This last statement represents the pointy end of ocean science here on the East Coast. It requires a bit of a digression but as we’re talking about sand let’s follow those grains.
For many years, no-one quite knew where the sand that stocks our beaches was coming from. Sure, we knew that, north of roughly Sydney, sand moved northwards in a longshore transport system that created all of Queensland’s great sand islands: North and South Stradbroke, Morton, Bribie, and Fraser (K’Gari) before expiring in an abyss north of Fraser.
(That abyss, by the way, is what allowed the corals of the Great Barrier Reef to grow. If the sand continued north it would smother any foundation where coral tried to take hold.)
Meanwhile, south of Sydney, no sand transport system exists and sand is held in embayments between prominent headlands that sometimes ‘leak’ during big swells but generally cycle the same sand around - offshore during a storm, back onshore during periods of small swell.
But what’s the source of it all?
Scientists have traced it all to our river systems. However, what scientists such as Ian are now finding is that river sand - such as that which washed down the Northern Rivers during La Nina floods - doesn’t join the sand transport system. Instead it sits around the rivers’ ebb tidal delta, and sometimes even washes back into the rivers themselves.
Yes, the sand that’s on our beaches comes from the rivers, however between washing down the rivers and ending up on our beaches, much of that sand has spent long periods of time - centuries, millenia - on our continental shelf, sometimes far from shore. I ask Ian to elaborate.
“Think about the last million years of history,” says Ian, “for 90% of that time the sea level has been about 50 to 60 metres lower than it is now, and all our river systems deposited their sediment through river mouths that sat sometimes tens of kilometres further out on the continental shelf.”
“This whole process has been operating for close to a billion years,” adds Ian and I hope readers are now appreciating the breadth of Ian’s worldview. If nothing else, understand that these ancient rivers left great sand reservoirs on the continental shelf.
“Then for 10% of the time,” continues Ian, “the warm climate periods, such as we’re in now when the sea level is at its landward extent, wave energy - specifically long period wave energy - transports that sand back onto the coast.”
So yes, the sand originates in our rivers, but there’s a huge lag between when it was deposited through a river mouth and when it stacked up on our beaches. During periods of short range energy - such as the La Nina years - it may not move much at all, but when swell periods lift over, say, twelve seconds, the grains of sand cycle ever so slowly towards shore.
Add that slow moving sand from the ancient rivermouths to the sand that was moved offshore during La Nina’s erosive storms, and you’ve got one almighty bounce back. Ian, as you’d expect from someone who thinks a century is short-term, isn’t surprised.
“This beach situation was typical in the period 1910 to 1940, and between 1830 and 1850, and even earlier between 1300 and 1550 AD.” How he knows all that is a conversation for another time.
So most East Coast beaches are full to brimming with sand, and it’s not helping the surf quality. The worst case scenario is that we go through spring and summer - traditionally our quieter seasons - without enough swell activity to shake up the pattern. I asked Ian what might result from six months more sand buildup. Just how wide can our beaches get?
"I think they're pretty well at their maximum now," answered Ian. "Once the sandbars are welded to the shoreline, that's pretty well a limit."
I guess that's good news. Though even contemplating the status quo - another six months of what we’ve just had - doesn’t bear thinking about.
One bright spot, countered Ian, "is that during the last twelve months we haven't had a single East Coast Low." We're moving out of the season for ECL's, which in the weather world are industrial-strength sand removalists, however it's still possible to get one.
As I type this we're on the backside of a north-east swell event; one that many people had hoped would provide good waves and shake the foundations up a bit. First impressions are that we got the former and not the latter - the sand is as straight and plentiful as it was before the swell.
The wave models show a south swell coming in a few days. It doesn't appear significant, but there's hope it'll stir things up, maybe gouge channels and gutters while depositing the sand into new shapes and formations. Those wonderful and mysterious things we call sandbanks - or used to call them back when they existed on this coastline.
// STU NETTLE
Special thanks to Manly Hydraulics Laboratory on behalf of the NSW Department of Planning and Environment Biodiversity and Conservation Division.
Comments
Great stuff Stu, Ian sounds like an interesting chat!
50 years at Tamarama never seen so much sand, remarkable! thank you for the article Stu
Hi Phil. I’ve got photos of Tama and McKenzies and Bronte with slightly more sand than now. Early nineties as the El Niño was kicking in. Bronte had way more sand than it does at present. And there was definitely more sand out behind Maccas into Tama. Still it’s amazing to walk around in front of the rocks at south Tama in an area where people are usually being pulled out half dead by the life guards.
:) I do remember that time in the early nineties- still we have not started summer as yet wonder what it will look like in February 2024? ! regards P
Nice one @ stunet.
I've often wondered where all the sand comes from.
Its nice to have that answered.
Anyone who's spent a season on the north Shore knows how much sand moves and pending direction where it goes.
North Shore sand. That's another whole article.
The large coarse grains don't bind well so they're easily moved around. It's not just the long period swell causing twenty metres of beach to shift overnight, but also the fact the sand sits relatively loosely together.
At the other end of the spectrum is the fine dark sand of California (or parts of it) that packs down hard and takes some energy to shift.
Oz East Coast sand sits somewhere in the middle of that spectrum.
thanks,stu been trying to find out about sand movement for years ,
as a point in my area has had no good sand for for over 20 years and im getting old could you give any info on sand movement on in vico surf coast
thanks
I'd love to, but I can't.
I'm not an academic and what I've learnt about East Coast sand flow has been acquired over decades of watching and learning, also exchanging info with people similarly curious.
I'd like to say I know about sand flow down there but aside from direction and broadscale patterns, I'm pretty green.
If anyone's reading this and has the knowledge, feel free to contribute here, or alternatively contact me on [email protected] and we can arrange payment for a similar article as above though pertaining to a different coast.
Ill have to head over this season to do an "intense " study on the sand........
Might have to sample the waves to see how much sand is in them. On north swells vs west swells....
LOL
From my observations sand is a lot coarser around the Newcastle area than Nambucca Heads/ Coffs area, much finer there......
Can you interview Ian again when his book comes out please Stu, I for one, would like to get it and read it
These long period south swells of late have not had any real strong winds with it lately but if we had 30 knots of stinging southerlies with a solid swell wouldn't this create more surface currents which could then create stronger rips and then channels?
Hopefully the next couple of days will blow hard and churn it up
Great article
Will do, Brownie.
Doing a bit of research on this topic in tow with Stu, I found it fascinating that sand accretion is enhanced by moderate winter swell energy.
More so than subdued, weaker activity.
Case in point the moderate sized swells have more suspended sand, accelerating the accretion along our beaches.
Craig, did you notice on Wednesday afternoon as the NE swell was near its peak, there was waves capping between Queenscliff Bombie and Fairy Bower? (Maybe closer to shore). Almost straight out from the Corso, but way out. Maybe it’s normal, and I’ve never noticed it (?), but it looked like there is even more sand out there waiting to come in.
Agh no, I missed this. Under real north swells focussed into South Steyne I do notice regularly a bit of a sand slug sitting in that position with waves breaking and capping before rolling into the beach.
Great article thanks Stu. Kinda thought it may have been a lot to do with a long run of small swells. Would like to add that here on the Mid North Coast the massive sand build up between our headlands finishes so abruptly that any swell showing promise not only closes out but totally detonates so that takes offs are brutal. In addition to this the headland rips that provided an easy paddle out have mostly dissappeared and the wave they provided by rotating the sand has gone. I guess we need a cyclone swell ?
"Would like to add that here on the Mid North Coast the massive sand build up between our headlands finishes so abruptly that any swell showing promise not only closes out but totally detonates so that takes offs are brutal."
It's the same here Cleelo, and I'm glad you brought it up. The reason I asked Ian about how wide beaches can get is because I was wondering about the beach profile below the waterline.
Like, if the channels and gutters are full, does sand keep getting added out the back so that waves break further offshore?
It doesn't appear the case. As in the article, all the sand that was moved offshore during La Nina is pretty much back on the coast, while the sand from out on the continental shelf is much slower moving and not in volumes that could be detected in such a short time scale. Sure, huge volumes of it round Pt Danger each year, but breaking that amount down to each beach and each bank would be indiscernible in the short time frame.
Yep the current situation can only get better I hope. I moved here to the Mid North Coast two years ago to escape the cold and crappy surf situation on the Surcoast in Vic during La Nina. (Aging surfer needs warmer water) I was lucky with the timing to miss what my mates say was the worst run of waves and wind on the Surfcoast ever and scored almost two years of consitently great surfs here. From all reports this Winter was the switch and Vicco had an epic one. I check the reports for both coasts daily and it is amost always the opposite.... Pumping Vic = Crap Mid North Coast and visa versa. Not sure why this is but I guess it is the weather pattern ? Cheers and thanks for your reply. Cleelo
It's not always the case, but generally speaking when Vic is good, the lower NSW coast (and sometimes upper too) is bad.
The rule applies more firmly under south swell regimes.
Reason being is the Long Wave Trough will direct storms (i.e south swells) towards one coast or the other. If the LWT is positioned under the continent to direct storms up towards Vic, then a few thousand kms east (i.e east of Tassie) it's directing storms down and away from the Tasman Sea.
See this graph for a visual:
If both coasts only got south swells the rule would be watertight, however the MNC can get east and NE swells which aren't connected to the Long Wave Trough (at least I don't think so...Craig?), meaning Vicco can be pumping from the SW and the MNC from the NE.
Often it is Easter time and the whole country will sometimes pump.
Swells with E for east coast and W-SW for WA and southern coastlines.
Thanks Stu, that all makes sense, might need to get myself a private jet and pilot... Ha !
Yep, both can pump but only when we usually see tropical depressions and lows forming over NZ way, providing east swell while the Surf Coast pumps.
Most times it's either one or the other providing the goods when proper pumping.
Dang. Got excited about this but it’s only about East Coast beach breaks.
Would love to understand the science behind sand banks in Vic or any other beach breaks thats face the prominent direction of swell!
Portsea so much different to the Gunna, P.I and Killy but all are close to facing the same way.
Reefs inshore? Offshore? Dunes? The heads? Why so?
In a nutshell geology.
I picked this info up from a local Geologist 30 years ago.
"Woolamai has Caliceforus sands which can be seen in the Rhizo Concretions (tubular formations that formed long ago around roots in the dunes and the plants have since decayed leaving behind these rhino concretions that formed around the roots) they are everywhere up behind the dunes. These are like a natural cement when breaking down and hence Woolamai sand tends to be more stable than say KIllies.
Thats my understanding of why the banks at Woolamai are quite stable.
If you look at a map of the Island after the last Ice age when the sea level was higher PI is lots of smaller Islands. As the sea level dropped sand bars built up linking these smaller Islands together. These are known as Tie bars. Woolamai beach is one.
You can see from looking from San Remo the Granite of the Cape with the Tie bar of Woolamai linking it to the rest of the Island.
Other smaller tie bars are Forrest Caves and Crazy Birds, Summerlands beach and Cat Bay towards Flynns beach.
The reason the Penguins live on the Summerland Peninsula is it was once its own Island when the Sea level was higher and the Penguins still are imprinted to stay on this Island.
Aerial photos show the edge of the Island running from the Penguin Parade across to the beach inside Right point. You can see where the reef at Summerlands is covered by sand and it then pops out again from the sand over at Right Point.
Sorry for thread drift love how geology affects Surf Breaks.
Drift away, this is unreal.
If you look at Woolamai on a satellite you’ll notice just how abruptly the eastern headland juts out from the beach, so perpendicular that it almost starts to curl around on itself. As such, I assume sand, and water for that matter, is trapped within the “bay” unable to transport further east along the beach. Meanwhile, sand presumably flows into Woolamai from surfies point, travelling along with the WSW directed swells, accumulating alongside the eastern point. Accordingly, with the large flows of sand unable to travel laterally, we naturally see it pile up along Magicland, forming the banks which remain in place during the low energy summer months. In a similar way, sand leaving the Merimbula river is probably trapped outside the ocean rivermouth, unable to move north, west or east due to the surrounding beaches and headlands. Jammed up by the limited south swell that manages to find its way into the corner, sand would naturally settle and fall, forming the break surfers use. In contrast, if you look further up the east coast where river outlets flow into open beach (eg bithri inlet) we tend to see the sand shifted northward by the south swell and the lack of a consistent, stationary surf bar. Of course, the same logic can be applied to the long stretches of bankless beachies that run without a sand containing northern headland. Apologies for the rant!
100% true the Cape itself plays a big part, Cape bookends things and the coast that faces directly into the swell is shorter than Kilcunda coast or Penissula beachies, stopping at forrest caves the shorter length i think helps stability, there is reef all along the beach too so most of the rips stay in similar spots where reef underneath is deeper.
Its also all very different to the east coast of Australia where swells & currents push sand north most of the time, most of the time the swell hit the beach straight on SE swells are rare, so not as much of a movement of sand going west.
The swell hitting straight on is the reason why we get the V frame banks causing water to pull straight out rather than a sweep and inshore gutter.
On beaches like the long Gold coast if you get a good run of straight east swells you can see similar banks created on a smaller scale where the inside and inside banks join up to form a V with rips pulling straight out
At Woolis i do think there is a cycle of sand movement though where sand from the beach does move with winds, winter west -NW blow sand up towards Magics and SE summer winds blow it back but most of it gets trapped by the reefs and rocky shoreline at Ocean reach & shit cans.
The winter SW winds also blow sand across the tie bar hence spew hill on the other side, although the dune system is so much more stable now, Rocky Island obviously has the blue Phillip island book with geographic maps, in that book you can see from ariel photos how little vegetation the dune system once had back then the movement of sand would have been greater.
When I was a little tacker my Dad was a surf fisherman and he used to frequent Woolamai and KIlcunda. I would get bored and go roaming in the Sahara desert which was Woolamai in the 60s had a wooden sword me old man made me and I would pretend I was Laurence of Arabia.
Since the dunes have been revegetated sand is now trapped and the sand that used to replenish the bay side of Woolamai tie bar is no longer being replenished as much by SW winds blowing it over there.
I was was a ranger on the island for many years and had to erect a NO dog sign on the track to the bay beach from the surf beach right next to Spew hill. (So named because the clubbies would make the nippers run up and down it until they spewed). The No dog sign was 20 metres from the primary dune. It fell into the ocean about 15 years ago and now there are 3 spew hills as all the tertiary dunes are falling into the sea on the bay side (East) side of the Woolamai tide bar.
Meanwhile it makes sense that the surf side sand is growing as the sand piles up on the consolidated Tie bar.
The Woolamai ramp to the beach is now way under.
So one could think that effectively the Woolamai tie bar is moving in a SW direction.
Being eroded at an alarming rate on the eastern bay side but heading out to sea on the western side.
Just a theory.
My thoughts:
At Woolamai, the sand is hard packed and finer and has a much less tapered bathymetry, hence the reason the banks set up better on the Island than on the Peninsula, but hold less swell. Plus at Gunna the amount of sand movement is huge, it also picks up about a foot more swell on any given day (just my observation)
er...must proof read. I meant to say that Woolie is more tapered ie. a flatter more stable beach
Yeah before we moved to the island in the late 80s we had a holiday house down near the old shop so as a kid in the 80s i use play in the dunes a lot both the tie bar and down near Cleeland bight, the tie bar dunes in the 80s even early 90s before the new road was still very desert like very easy to walk pretty much in a straight line, but now it would be so hard to walk through there.
I went down Cleland bight last year first time in years and was blown away how far back its eroded its taken away a whole dune system, it use to be a rear vegetated dune then a big gully then a decent sized dune system and now that whole dune system has gone.
Didn't know that about the naming of spew hill.
Great stuff LD been trying to find that book.
The beach behind the caravan park closest to foots is really building up since they built the rock wall but the beach under the Lions playground cliffs is rapidly eroding.
So that middle diagram you put up helps to explain that process.
That old photo from 1957 is real interesting in just how barren the tie bar was, its hard to imagine that is not it's proper natural state and what it is now is not natural and a result of stabilisation by man, especially adding in marram grass.(and the road)
Although i know Mike Cleeland disagrees he thinks it was vegetated and it was his family that owned Woolamai before it was subdivided, he claims it was livestock and dune buggies etc that caused the barrenness, but as much as i respect him i cant agree, i think he has a bias, i mean i know he planted out marram grass with landcare in the past because im sorry to say in the 90s as a grommet i helped him plant some one day where the old road cut through, also planted the stuff with him at Forest caves. (suppose to prevent the sand dune blowing out just east of the main path)
ID I worked with Mike a lot when I was a Ranger.
My kids were on Ernie Dingoes show with him when he did the Dinosaur Fossil show at Inverloch.
That 1957 photo is how I remember it in the mid 60s as a Surf Fishing Grom.
Was involved in planting quite a fire Coups in the gullies between dunes.
I agree though I think Dunes need to be left as dunes and let them move naturally.
The Dunes behind the Beachfront Caravan Park in San Remo are building up at a rapid rate.
I have a caravan just behind them and observed from a bare rock wall to now almost covered and a tertiary dune forming in 5 years. Sand Rocket doing a great job of colonising the dune system there.
Interesting though from the San Remo Jetty back to where it turns the corner and heads East its getting gouged out big time and under the Lions club Playground the Tertiary dune vegetation falling into the drink at a rapid rate.
Miss the sand bar from the early 2010s that you could wade out on to surf secret spot x
Its disappeared and a lot of those novelty inner sandbanks my kids grew up on have gone.
Tide bars Rocky.
They form at low tides are absent at high tides.
I know this much cause the beach I grew up surfing at had one at the north end . people were always hiking over to the island ...sometimes only to realize that once they had had explored the island , if they explored too long or miss timed the tides they were in fact stranded / stuck on the island .
Many rescues occurred. Also some years the tide bar was wider or higher or both than other years ....
Great read and research.
Apparently we have another source of sand shifting up here: https://www.savefirstpoint.com.au/
Great article and wondering, any Sydney north-siders can tell us how Collaroy beach is going?
Also, so much sand here where I am in Japan. We're east coast too and I can't remember ever having so much. Banks are pretty hit and miss but a good spot up north turned on a day or two ago.
I haven't checked Collaroy recently but DY has sand like it's the end of Summer. So much built up sand and mostly straighthanders. Council is going to move a lot f Sand from North Narra lagoon to Collaroy. https://www.northernbeaches.nsw.gov.au/council/news/media-releases/counc....
Can anyone explain why the central coast sand is very coarse but
When you drive up the coast to Newcastle or the mid north coast the sand is fine and shapes better banks??
The steeper the beach angle, the coarser the sand grain particles size.
This is due to the ability of the ocean to broadcast the larger grains higher up the beach because of its particle size. Beaches that have coarse sand tend to be a narrow band say from dunes to waters edge.( for example, Bells Beach)
Converse to this, beaches that are not steep and are relatively flat, have fine sand particles because the sand is moved around more often, particles collide into each other and are broken down over time.AW
not necessarily IMO, coarser sand beaches, typical of southern high energy beaches often have a lot of shell content as well due to reefs nearby and high energy waves and currents winnow out the fines to deep water, the coarser sand leads to a steeper beach profile. As the article mentions, east coast sand originates from ancient river beds and is highly eroded, so smaller and a lot less shell when you get away from reefs, so flatter beach profiles and more outer bars. Same thing around the Murray River mouth (extreme case!)
Shraz. Hi. Your opinion, we’ve all got one . Large sand grains have a higher specific gravity weight, thus allowing them to be lifted or carried by wave action, it’s just physics, and because they are heavier they fall by gravity quickly, unlike very, very fine sand grains that don’t fall quickly to the bottom, they are held in the water column longer.
Think about the colloidal suspension of clay particles in a river or dam, very little specific gravity, so the particle takes a long time to subside.
If you think of the geologic period the Silurian, 400-450mya, SE Australia has much sedimentary rock formation from the very slow deposition of incredibly fine particles that eventually form rock after being compressed.
A lot of sandstone (origin-sand) formation undergoes that same deposition where it is eventually compressed. Ive rarely observed large to very large grained sandstone strata anywhere.
I welcome you to have a read of the book by Bascom & McCoy, ‘Waves and Beaches’; ‘The Powerful Dynamics of Sea and Coast,’ it explains why most beaches that are steep have coarse grain sand. All the best. AW.
I’ll add another theory…. Hawkesbury Sandstone outcrops on the Central Coast are full of coarse grained, angular sand and are a source of coarse sand on the beaches.
On the North Coast the geology is more varied and along the coastline there are also large deposits of Pleistocene sand plains e.g Tuncurry and Lake Cathie which comprise fine grained wind blown sands that are being eroded and reworked into the beach deposits.
Distracted. Hi. Hope you are well. Interesting, varying geology in different geographic locations. What beaches along the Central coast have coarse sand ? I’d be interested to know ? The Gosford sandstones, what can you tell me , I’d also like to know ? . Thanks. AW
AW, I recall Sydney Northern Beaches and on Central Coast, Shelly Beach and Wamberal as having coarser sand than North Coast Beaches and the sand being more yellow in colour compared to the pale finer sands around Tuncurry for example. Presumably there are studies of grain sizes at different beaches that can confirm that rather my skewed memories….. but not sure where to look.
Link below summarises the Hawkesbury Sandstone properties including presence of coarse grain sizes.
https://www.longdom.org/open-access/petrology-diagenesis-and-reservoir-q...
In the hunter now and just come from a couple of weeks around the MNC from Port South to seal rocks and yes, the sand is finer and more pale there vs yellow and less fine here on the hunter.
No good banks in either location either!
bit of a chicken and egg then isn't it, yes I agree that larger grains or shell if present can be tossed further up the berm (less dense than sand, particularly the black sand that shows up after erosion) so you get a steep profile but in such areas you don't see the fine sand much at all so was it ever there in the first place? e.g. no nearby sources? such a longshore transport from a source up drift? pocket beaches bounded with reefs etc
Shraz. You and I are talking about the same thing , that’s good, just explaining it differently. I failed to mentioned that yes, sand particle size ( texture) can be produced at myriad sources close to or afar from a beach etc. like you’ve explained, sand also gets translocated to other geographic locations. I was mainly referring to the presence of all the various grain/ particle sizes of sand in turbulent water/waves when it reaches the shore.
Since I read the aforementioned book, I see myself checking out beaches with a steep gradient and in most to all cases the sand is coarse.
This time last year on Sipora in the Ments I took the time to check out the beaches at Lances Right, steep beaches in profile not necessarily in height with coarse coralline white sand, very tiring clambering up the sand profile in ankle to shin deep coarse sand, especially after a surf. I walked north along the shore for 2km and the sand particle size gradually became smaller as the beach flattened out. I’m back there in March to assist with some works as the high tide mark is getting higher each year.
Don’t you love ocean dynamics. Good stuff. AW
Wiggy-
Not to sure for sand, though if you look at the region from burubi to say caves , they face a total different direction than alot of other beaches on the East coast.
Most of the beaches north of Stockton would be fed by either the port Stevens bay , the myall lakes and the rivers of forster and port .
Guessing a combination of The Hawkesbury River flowing through a sandstone Sydney basin… ?
Amazing. Never thought about bank prediction as the final frontier but totally makes sense! What about Perth, is it a similar story with the Swan there? I'm guessing not because of the ridge that forms Rottnest
Stu any ideas on the sand mining on the east coast and what effects that would have on stabilising the banks/beaches........a handful of black sand weighs a lot compared to normal sand...great article.
I've wondered about this a lot, Simba.
A few years back I read Black Sands by Ian Morley to get an idea of the history and damage left by sand mining. Was his PhD but a very good bok and though now a few decades olf still gets cited very regularly.
My own conclusions were that sand mining permanently scarred lots of the East Coast, changed beach profiles, cleared native vegetation, and was the basis for introduced weeds, there probably wasn't enough volume extracted (relatively speaking) to make a long term difference in dune structure.
I hadn't, however, considered sand weight.
Was going hoping Steve was going to an article on this with all the sand around up here, cheers Stu very interesting !
Stu
Around Newcastle worst winter I can recall in living memory
Sand build up horrendous
Lots of good swell and winds but banks non existent creating straight handers
Just don’t get any good long lasting south swells to move the sand
Any southerly these days is gone within 12 hrs it seems
I’ve heard similar around foster ,central coast and Sydney
Would like to hear from others if that has been the case
How prominent are the divider rocks at newy ?
Super tall or buried ?
Fun fact they had old photos in the surf club from the early days 1900 to 1920 era
There was hardly a grain of sand on the beach it was all rocks back then .
I completely understand what’s is being noticed and said.
Having such a slug of straight sand here renders most beachies to mid to higher tides only. Tough going on longer period swells.
It’s funny though, give me a small high tide, shallow straight slug of unshapely sand over a huge deep gutter with only storm bar out the back as the option.
PS - thank god sand forecasting isn’t a thing. Gotta leave some surprises for those in the know ;)
Great article thanks
Great article-sand is definetely the most complicated of swell, wind, tide sand combinations to work out these days and usually always is and was.. I guess that's because the others even in the old pre internet days you could predict pretty accurately if you could read a weather and tide chart. Love the long range overview on sand buildup over millenia. Science is about looking for an explanation.
Cheers for that great article..first winter in 8+ years with no east lows very interesting..
Also worth a revisiting Chris Buykx's 13-part "Coastal Creationism" series from 2015/16, on the role geology plays in defining the quality of surf throughout a region.
https://www.swellnet.com/news/coastal-creationism
Great series.
Maybe we should transport some of it back to kurnell and fill in the man-made toxic lagoon that replaced the dunes
Some more dynamics at work;
Powerful long period swells with well spaced sets can act as sand bank destroyers. They slam like a hammer on the high point of the bank then roll out them out a bit like a rolling pin - working towards flatness.
By being so well spaced, the water can dissipate between sets and so the build up of too much water inshore needing an exit via a rip is lessened. They do less to reinforce existing channels or to create new ones.
Short period swells are less likely to destroy a bank and more likely to create rips as if non stop sets are present.
Adding to the chaos though, short period swells are generally less uniform in direction and period - there hasn't been enough time to iron out the 'noise' in the swell train - so banks get attacked in a more random fashion making it hard to establish a set pattern of water returning to sea.
Around here, those kind of swells can move a lot of sand along the beaches. Not so much gouging deeply in the beach, nor moving the sand offshore, but they'll often refashion stable banks.
Yes, it is simple sometimes and complex at others. I have seen stable banks persist for no obvious reason for ages then dissappear almost overnight for, again, no clear reason. My guess is that a beach can be set up with its "preferred" pattern of banks and rips that are then reinforced by predominant swell directions for weeks or months.
Then a funky directioned swell pops up that "wants" to re pattern the beach slightly differently and fills in the channels (easier sand flow following gravity) but does not have enough energy to carve out a new channel, leaving crappy banks.
Another interesting thing is how most persistent rips often make V shaped or nicely angled banks suiting good waves. But then, some just don't. The famed backpackers rip at Bondi for example, which works every day, never seems to create good peeling waves from what I have seen. The southern Bondi rip is pretty solid as well but seems to mainly result in funky junky waves. Possibly a shift in a couple of rock outcrops down there could change it completely through a different water movement pattern. We will never know.
As our own observations show and artificial reef designers have learned to their cost, reef, rock, headland and bombie structures can help create persistent banks on nearby beaches but mostly do not. Maybe there is a secret sauce for reef designs that does not require masses of rock or bags to do the work? There may be a certain angle and shape of reef for certain beach types that facilitates just the right rip formation next to it so Mother Nature does most of the work.
The above article, however, shows how the best laid plans and, what really only minor wrinkles in the coastal geomorphology, can be overwhelmed by macro sand movements.
wow great article Stu, so interesting !
13 part, woah got some catch-up reading there.
Thanks for your efforts Stu and Swellnet, I love it when you get sciency. I'm always surprised that in this modern world where we have observation data details from every point on the planet that earth science is still so speculative.
Does anyone other than a surfer care about the shape of sand banks?
'Welded to the beach' describes perfectly the set-up at Fairhaven. LaNina easterlies pushed a bunch of sand into a nice long straighthander and the predominantly westerly swells this season have barely shifted a grain. I figure the historically dry winter too, (driest on record?) hasn't helped as the creeks and rivulets this time of year would usually gouge the banks somewhat?
Ever increasing high tides as oceans rise would have an unspecified effect on this system too?
Do you know an expert on sand down here? I'd be happy to go and interview them, see if we can get to the bottom of, well, the bottom but no doubt its a can of worms with cans of worms inside it.
Took a look at a north central coast beach yesterday. I’ve been keeping tabs on the sand build up. Yesterday, only 4 weeks since I last checked, the build up was substantial. It was already as much as I had ever seen in 30+ years, now it’s greater again.
The north east swell has carved out a few metres of sand at the shoreline, so that gives a gauge oh how high the sand is. Looking up the beach was like looking at a skeleton bay vid, but the waves were mostly unmakeable and hitting a very shallow bar. A few gems came through but your chances of being in the right spot were about zero. The backwash made for some phenomenal sights.
Was doing some maths on just this beach - apparently 8 kms long (would have thought more) times maybe an average 35 metres more beach, at a height of about 2 metres - just one beach must have around 560,000 cubic metres more sand than usual.
15 months ago it had the least sand I have ever seen, so you can probably double that figure to see how much sand has accrued.
It’s fascinating to watch, but not great for surfing. I’d love to have a grader for a couple of days to push sand slugs out every 100 metres or so to get some variability to the banks.
This is a beach that I believe has been made worse by dunecare plantings.
Hey @Batfink, I'd be keen to know more about this. Is it the whole Marran Grass v Spinifex situation?
Care to elaborate - or send me something direct if you don't wanna broadcast locations?
Ben Elvy. Hi. Primary dunes (the ones closest to the water) can be immobile or mobile, dunal vegetation cover is a reaction, plants proliferate quickly, do their sexual reproduction, persist for quite awhile or disappear in the next big storm, wind or swell event, hence the seed biology thats evident when you closely look at plants at the beach. I’ve previously promised to write something of length about vegetation in/on dunes but ive a busted left hand at present and haven’t got the energy to do so. Ive promised VJ, so by end of the month id better start. AW
Batfink. Hi. Agree wholeheartedly. Had a revegetation company for 25 years, its a cardinal sin to attempt to revegetate dunes. AW
Start about 12:15, then about 28:30 for some interesting history on how humans ruin coastlines. Big changes in small timescales.
I was going to post a link to that myself, but you beat me to it. An enjoyable and informative video. Kina sad as well.
Stu , and everyone involved in this article , thank you . That was one of the most interesting reads I've come across, ever . Obviously right up our alley being surfers , but for a complex system to be explained so clearly , I'm blown away (no pun intended!).
LOL
I noticed East of Melb there was a lot of sand through La Nina (with the lack of big swells) but the amount of sand created beach long close outs as there were no rips to create a bank.
Seems like we needed both the sand and a few big swells to create the rip banks.
just south of swansea nsw there is an overabundance of sand currently. record levels, etc as everyone has mentioned. what is different this time is the appearance of significant levels of small/fine sand on the shoreline. we always had pebbles and coarse sand on the shoreline. it is still there but the fine sand is infilling. i assume this is also the case out at the breaker depth from shore. there has been many carpark conversations about it and the most wise/experienced (old guys) consider a run of north east swells most likely to strip sand from the breaker zone. personally, i am not sure other than the combination of rain, big tidal swings and oblique swell will change things. for better or worse i am not sure.....
Sounds a lot like what’s dished up in Perth everyday
Backwash 1km close outs.
Some days the conditions are perfect but zero banks
Take off go straight, paddle back out and repeat
It’s funny hearing the surf report trying to talk up closeouts
All the sand you are looking for is stuck next to the south wall of Hilarys Marina delivered by predominant southerly drift unable to be pushed back in winter by NW storms. Check it out, those Sorrento beaches grow every year and they are constantly dealing with sand coming over the south wall clogging up the carpark. Perth beachies, which used to be fun year-round declined in quality year after year after construction of the marina. Maybe a solution could be to transport the sand back to maybe Swanbourne(?) to help restore the natural flow and replenish beaches like watermans suffering from erosion (and declining wave quality). Beach tractors that smooth the Trigg/Scarb shoreline don’t help either….Or alternatively you could set fire to the overprotected dunes ;)
That makes perfect sense. Didn’t think too much about the Hillary’s marina construction.
Only been in Perth for a few years and just assumed it was always shit.
You would think transporting it back would be feasible but add in local government politics and you probably would have no hope
I agree with the dune restoration. I’d love to burn it all down. I don’t feel guilty in the least trampling all over it.
Another example of introduced vegetation that does more harm than good.
I guess the light at the end of the tunnel besides the drive to the sth west is the wave pool.
Wow wow wow! Learnt as much in that 10 minute read as i have in half of my surfing life. Cheers Stu. Great writing.
Would love to understand the science behind sand banks in Vic or any other beach breaks thats face the prominent direction of swell!
Everyone send me a list of beaches they are interested in reading the geological processes of in vic. I have a book detailing everywhere and I can send in some pictures when I’m home.
I don’t know about the theories, but 13th for instance had amazing sand in the 80s, where there was sand “shoots” to access the beaches from the various car parks. Some car parks were right on the cliff edge around beacon and 1st/2nd carpark. I was young, but it seemed like the road was starting to get threatened. They then opened up controlled dumping of chopped down vegetation along the whole of 13th, carparks were moved, stairs added and it definitely stabilised that whole stretch, but I believe to the detriment of the sand supply. The dumping of vegetation allowed more shrubs to colonise, which has further stabilised the dunes. Sand drifts use to cover the road at times, and would be blowing back and forth with N v S winds, but not sure if that happens now. Some have a theory that this artificially stabilised “cap” will make the dunes too steep, so they’ll slip… time will tell.
Realise you were talking the whole macro system, rather than human interference, but I reckon managing dunes (ie a dynamic moving system) is interrupting the natural sand flow in VIC.
My best surfs at 13th back in the 80s seemed to be A frames caused by banks to some degree but mainly due to it receiving multiple swell directions and the offshore bombie bending swell about. It was random peaks and tapered swells you hunted down like the day Occy and and the pros surfed there at Easter which was featured in Tracks. There was a lot of sand blowing about over the road and so more out the back I guess.
Yes, Tripper and frog, I remember very good banks at 13th in the late 70's and 80's with the sand conditions you describe. I don't get around there much these days, but I assume it still gets some good days. You see some very good photos on WOTD by Steve Arklay of the area.
Basically same thing happened at Woolami when they moved the road inland.
Thanks for this very informative article Stu. Maybe we need some submersible excavators to create banks!!
I recall the summer of '82/'83 and the brilliant right hander bank at the south end of Stanny. Stayed around for the whole summer. And we hand pretty consistent northeasters to generate some tidy swell too..
Maybe this summer it we occur once more.
haha was thinking something similiar.
Maybe underwater pumps that pump water at a decent rate to move sand around from a big barge or something.
Instant bank shaping. Fark i'll jump on board that one! (pun intended).;-P
Was there a pro comp back in the 80s where they bulldozed up a bank.
Seem to remember reading that one somewhere.
Beaurepaires possibly?
The sand banks at my local beach are a mystery to everyone. Every single person has a different theory about it.
I have checked the beach nearly every day for 23 years and I'm none the wiser. I've often thought about cornering a Phd student and convincing them to do their thesis on the banks at our beach.
Mainstreaming ;)
https://www.9news.com.au/national/east-coast-beaches-are-awash-with-too-...
The old timers who first surfed gunna on the MP describe a completely different beach and surf conditions to what exists today post the dune preservation work and planting of marram grass. The dunes were higher with deep valleys which extended to the beach itself.
The Point is now a shadow of its former self again apparently due to the loss of sand beyond the old peak decades ago and down the beach 1st reef disappeared due to the creek that had formerly groomed the sand being being turned into a storm water drain with the 1980s housing development behind the beach.
Lachy McDonald has written an article for Surfline about the waves of western port. In his research it was found that the depth of the bay off the back of those surf spots has risen dramatically and therefore bends the incoming swell in a different way to previous decades. This huge deposit of sand has completely erased the way swell used to react with the reefs and left surfers with inferior wave quality.
My 1st memories of 13th and the old road are of fat gentle sand dunes you could walk down to the beach pretty much anywhere you wanted with the road pretty much disappearing in places because of the drift - all before the restoration and fencing
The best book ever on all this shit let me know if anything in this contents interests anyone. I’ll upload the pages it’s the most detailed and well documented book of all time on this stuff; idk how many years it would’ve taken to produce, almost a lifetime!!
Hold onto that one. AU $269.95 https://www.ebay.com.au/p/95420083
Mate I’d love to read anything on the Belfast region. Where would you upload it to. Or even a photo to my email at [email protected] would be greatly appreciated.
Aust Ebay has one Listed @$69.
Question… Will we ever have sand forecasts? Great long form journalism as usual.
G'Day Nik,
Glad you enjoyed it.
I'd rate the chance of sand forecasts as very close to zero. We now know when there will be large volumes of sand transported along the coast, however who knows what shapes it will form? It's just too chaotic and open to variables.
Local knowledge will always reign supreme. Surprise sessions will continue.
long read but good, informed
Fascinating subject and article Stu. Many interesting contributions by all in the comments too. Being a Surf Coast resident I have always wondered why our beaches don't seem to get the quality of banks the Peninsular and Phillip Is get. We do get some good ones at times.
Much more swell energy over on the east - bigger average size and less defracted (settled) swell.
Also the coast shelves out to deeper water more slowly on the west. This effect is super clear and most pronounced when you look at the Ocean Grove surf cameras. Swell is feeling bottom way out in the bay on sand and reefs.
Fairhaven is pretty exposed but you can see it looks nothing like the east coast beaches in terms of wave energy.
So water piles up inshore more and needs to find a way out to sea.
Around the corner at Johanna it is back to high energy beaches.
Jumping between the SN cameras makes it all pretty clear.
Portsea area suffers from something? My guess is a lack of a headland to give water movements more structure.
The Victor Harbour cameras are also interesting in showing lower energy swells, lack of headland slopey sea bottom etc. not doing much for banks despite being moderately consistent size wise and having funky reefs here and there.
Wollamai has all the right goodies in place!
Thanks for the insights frog. Makes sense in many respects. As much as I love a good bank, I'm glad we don't have to rely on them. Fortunately we have plenty of reef and point options on the SC.
To true frog, the difference between everything from tides and swell and sand mobility changes completely at cape Otway. After a long while on the surf coast I’ve moved to the far end of the shipwreck coast and the contrasts are mind boggling. The swell size is obvious though why the tides behave so different on this side of the cape is still confusing as is the whole sand thing.
Good article Stu. Sand has recently been stripped right out of my local point break. It’s back to being one big hole in the bay now. Looking at the surf this morning and it looks like most of that sand has moved to the north.
I've heard a Byron Bay myth/story which I've often wondered about..
Apparently a man once rode a horse out to Julian Rocks from Cape Byron on a sandbar presumably at low tide.
Anyone ever heard that one?
Likely a myth.. otherwise it would have made this article from 2020.
https://www.swellnet.com/news/swellnet-analysis/2020/06/05/bypassing-the...
Julian Rocks
HaHa... FFS..
Yeah I always thought it was pretty far fetched but hey it could've been a seahorse.
Great read. Thanks Stu!
Sand reserves from offshore try to steal your mind's elation
Gentle swells push sand in well as experts seek quotations
And if you want these kind of dreams, it's Perthorification
LOL V J,
Dream of sand observations...........
yeah well whats it been 5 days or so of south swells and the bank that was forming here now has a big gutter thru it now..........awesome said no one
In a natural beach ecosystem; dry sand would be blown inland; trapped by spinifex grass & wattles to form fore & hind dunes (a real sand 'bank'). Dunes are eaten away during storms to protect beaches.
Redgum forests & rainforests grew behind large sand dunes. Animals lived in the sand dunes.
https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/coastal-dunes-geomorph...
https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/coastal-processes-and-...
We have historically mined, flattened, cleared the dunes & forests; replaced with rock, concrete, buildings & roads. Sand is now more mobile & humans are more static.
We now build walls....
With sea levels rising, & storms more powerful, dunes would have been the first line of effective defence, though can take ten years to reach adolescence.
Detailed rehabilitation projects & study of coastal protection methods in NSW
1. Magenta & development NSW from 2004 - 2010
"Construction of an Environmentally Sustainable Development on a Modified Coastal Sand Mined and Landfill Site—Part 2. Re-Establishing the Natural Ecosystems on the Reconstructed Beach Dunes"
https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/2/3/717
2. Angels Beach & development, Ballina NSW published in 2004
https://ballina.nsw.gov.au/files/AngelsBeachVMP2004.pdf?v=1209829594
These guidelines will help proponents and consent authorities to consider and assess the likely impacts from a proposed seawall to meet some of these requirements.
https://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resources/coasts/101043draftgdlnsseaw...
Impact of Coastal structures
https://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resources/water/coasts/cardoecologyla...
There are large sand deposits way up the MacDonald River, which feeds into the Hawkesbury's northern end.
Here's the junction of the MacDonald River and Yengo Creek - after the fires and before the floods. Very keen to see what's changed since.
The second is a huge dune running parallel to the river
Just had a scope, looks like there's always a tone of sand.
Maybe more now?
October 2020..
October 2023..
It certainly looks wider. I can report that big Boree Creek, which feeds Yengo ck, was significantly widened and dropped by roughly a meter after two significant flood events. I'm expecting this to be up scaled on the MacDonald.
https://maps.dea.ga.gov.au/story/DEACoastlines
Thanks Bonza, great link!
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-05/bengello-beach-longest-sand-monit...
Verifying with Bonza's link above, looks like that section of the coast has been seeing an accretion of sand while everywhere north and south is declining.
Great article Stu, up there with your marrum grass one. I’ll be buying Ian’s book.
So many geological events are confusing until they are viewed in a timescale usually not considered by humans, though once put into the proper perspective the confusion disappears. Bull Bryson states some great facts relating to humanity’s time on the planet and it really is minuscule. Thanks for a great read on a sleepless night.