A Tale of Two Pools
Wavepool news doesn't sell like it used to.
Back in 2014 the mere mention of the word would ignite a comment thread longer than a Proclaimers song.
But these days..?
I get sent press releases on the reg and more often than not pass them off. Seems other editors do too, save for Bryan Dickerson over at Wave Pool Mag who has a bit of an interest in nocean news. His site includes a graphic representation of the Earth with each new pool or proposal marked with a red circle, the effect not unlike a growing nuclear warhead count.
Recent news, however, has got me wondering about a coming clash, and also about the viability of one of the OG pool concepts versus the more dynamic upstarts.
Last week, subscribers to regional media on the Sunshine Coast would have read about the latest wavepool development at the foot of the Glass House Mountains. Digging through council DA's, Sunshine Coast News reported that Surf Parks Australia have employed development consultants, Project Urban, to build a wavepool using American Wave Machine technology - i.e the same tech as Waco, Texas.
If this news is a surprise to people, it can be explained by, firstly, rereading my opening stanza, and secondly, noting the previous story on the development was published on December 24th while you and I were full of Christmas spirit, and lastly, understanding that American Wave Machines are notorious press-dodgers.
An example of this is their recent Japanese pool which evaded all manner of fanfare despite being noteworthy on many levels. It was built on a site measuring less than 1 hectare - approx. 75m wide x 150m long, see image below - in only 13 months, and it's strategically positioned to act as an Olympic training pool.
Despite all this, there was no prior news - not even in Wave Pool Mag - before the pool was opened, displaying both the dynamism and stealth of American Wave Machines.
It also explains the stonewalling I received when enquiring about the Sunshine Coast development.
What I do know is that their Sunshine Coast site is on 13.5 hectares of land to the northwest of the Bruce Highway, Johnston Street intersection. Earlier this century, the land had been approved for a theme park that never went ahead. It's now being used for agriculture. For those unfamiliar, the Bruce Highway is the main thoroughfare from Brissy to the Sunny Coast so it has exceptional exposure.
In fact, a quick look at the American Wave Machines Instagram feed shows this may be a favourable layout. Their recently announced (after it was approved, more stealth) wavepool at New Smyrna Beach, Florida, is almost identical in layout, sitting adjacent to a highway overpass junction.
They even have matching nutritional offerings: at New Smyrna it's adjacent to a Burger King, while on the Sunny Coast there's a choice of Maccas or Bubba's Diner.
Not that wavepool punters will have to sup from a greasy spoon. Like most ventures, the pool will value add with its own eatery. In this case a "paddock to plate" restaurant, which for me conjures images of horse manure and fly-blown sheep but might work for some people.
The pool itself is 315m long and 92m wide, making it larger than the whole site for the Japanese pool and roughly twice the size of the pool in Texas.
Yet the American Wave Machines development is dwarfed in size and cost by the Kelly Slater Wave Company (KSWC) proposal for Coolum. First floated in 2019, the ambitious project ostensibly creates its own master-planned suburb, including:
- 700 metre long wave
- 20,000 seat stadium
- 6-star surf-lodge
- hotel and apartments
- Indigenous cultural experience centre
- school
- residential development
- paddock to plate cuisine (again!) and other food and beverage experiences;
- vast green public spaces and public waterways; and
- an environmental experience centre
All set on 529 hectares of fertile flood plain.
When Kelly Slater unveiled his Lemoore wave back in 2015, most pundits expected numerous tubs to be dug and quickly, yet six years later it remains the lone lagoon.
At issue is financial viability. When KSWC engineers got the wave rate down from fifteen minutes to six it was considered quite the feat but when new players such as Surf Lakes are boasting of 200 waves every six minutes the KSWC biz model falls apart like an Airfix on a test flight.
At $55K a day it's acceptable for moguls and trustafarians, but it's a difficult to concept to scale, especially beyond the reach of Silicon Valley executives. Hence KSWC pools are being sold with excessive value adds to underpin their loss leading fun ride, but all of which bring their own set of obstacles. For one, the cost is exorbitant. The KSWC Coolum project has been projected at costing between $100 million and $1.24 billion depending on which press release you read, and who they're trying to impress.
More striking is the footprint needed to house the KSWC wave and its associated value adds. The pool itself is large, however with a wave rate that will never pay for itself, costs need to be recovered by planting the pool within a larger 'community'. And that means even more land.
As mentioned, the Coolum site is 529 hectares, though apparently 375 hectares will remain wetlands. The remaining 154 hectares will be developed, which still makes the footprint more than ten times that of American Wave Machines, and therein lay the hurdles.
With coastal land at a premium, and further soaring since COVID, large-scale developments such as KSWC will struggle to pass muster. And it's not just a matter of cost; as more people move to the coast, issues of land use come to the fore. More people mean more stakeholders - or to put it another way, more backyards that people don't want a development in.
The Coolum wavepool may well get over the line - right now, post-COVID stimulus is giving them an economic tailwind - but the limitations of the elephantine KSWC model are laid bare. How many locations can realistically house a sprawling, all-encompassing development just to underwrite an ocean facsimile?
The future of wavepools - if indeed there is one - is small, nimble, and adaptable.
Comments
I remember v early on some people were remarking in swellnet forums that wave count would be a deciding factor in which tech would ‘win’
Maybe it was Greg Webber?
At the time I could see higher wave count would be good but couldn’t conceive over the radar how crucial it might become - very prescient of those that foresaw this as it seems to be coming to pass
Shame for GW that for whatever other reasons his ideas and tech didn’t seem to get off the ground - or perhaps in the long run if all these things become white elephants as I expect they will (cost to build and more importantly maintain - ultimately feeding a small market and in competition with a free alternative available to many who make up that market I.e. conventional ocean surfing) it’ll have been a blessing in disguise - at least for those who might have got tantalised enough to invest and for those in the neighbourhood who may of felt negatively impacted
I’m still hoping to try one - the one in melb looks interesting - once covid impacted travel feels reliable. But reckon it’ll be a once off novelty before they fade into the sunset
Time will tell hey
I surf the Melbourne wave pool a fair bit - definitely more than a novelty. 24 great waves in 2 hours is great! I often head down there on a bad surf forecast even though I live on the coast 70
Min drive away. Plus I go on evenings as well - really good vibe most of the time as no hassling for waves etc
I just spent two days there last Sun / Mon and fundamentally disagree with your entire comment. The waves aren’t “great”, they’re rideable at best and the whole experience is a complete novelty. It doesn’t come close to matching the ocean experience and there very much is hassling for waves. I saw snaking on multiple occasions and needed my best game face on to prevent a particularly aggressive dad with kids from cutting in front of me. The water temperature at URBN SURF last weekend was 13.6 degrees, which was a full 5 degrees colder than the sea in Tasmania I’d just been surfing in. It’s a well run operation but a very poor facsimile of surfing in the ocean and compares at best to a crowded, gutless beach break in freezing cold water. Reminded me of a mid-winter, weekend surf at 2ft Clifton beach, South Arm.
I had a 2 hour surf there a month or so ago. A novelty and worth the experience but won't be rushing back. The waves just lacked that 'push' you get in the ocean.
An 'average' session in the ocean is much more satisfying and I can rack them up on a regular basis at home for free.
13.6 wow that's getting very cold. What did you wear - booties, hood. 4.3 ???
Yep, R4 booties, R3 hood and a sealed 3/2 steamer still wasn't enough. The wind was howling "onshore" as well which didn't help, but 13.6 degrees reminded me of surfing in Scotland or southern Tassie. I would've worn a 4/3 if I had one.
You sound that salty it almost seems like you surfed in the ocean
I love how with all of this comes "an environmental experience centre"....how quaint
There was a skateboard series on SBS recently about a fellow who travelled across the US of A riding abandoned shopping centres, theme parks, residential estates, ski resorts etc. Anticipate a future series riding abandoned wave pools.
'Abandoned'. Great idea, well executed.
There's a hell of a rush happening, and it's hard not to think some parks and their investors will go under, and in twenty years time the cameras will capture Rick McCrank kick-flipping off the deep end.
speaking of abandoned...
Horrific- thought I was watching satire at first then realised the dude was legit
Cool!
I've had some epic powder days at abandoned Japanese resorts. they went crazy in the 80's. A couple even have a snow cat options.
Until this year I've been amped and stoked on all this wave pool stuff and kind of shrugged those off that bagged the pools as well hippies, but a while back i finally surfed the Melbourne pool and it totally changed my perspective.
I honestly didn't like the experience. and even if someone paid for me to go again i honestly wouldn't bother going, it just felt wrong on every level, sitting there bumping boards with others surrounded by concrete and wire with the sound of cars whizzing by while all i could smell was chlorine.
Then to make it worst, everything about the wave threw me, i surfed so much worst than i do in the ocean, and i just found the waves average and hard to surf, the complete opposite of what i expected, what i expected was a wave i could do anything on, like some rippable waves you get in places like Indo where you can really start thinking of pushing your surfing to another level.
The only positive i got out of it was, a new found appreciation for just living near the beach and just an appreciation of the whole deal that is surfing which is so much more than actually surfing a wave, it even made me appreciate the average days at my local.
Amen and amen indo-dreaming!, That's exactly my experience too.
Thanks for that, especially since I've not yet heard from one other surfer, in 15 months, who had the ordinary experience you and I both had. I reckon there's this weird hype that surrounds the Tullamarine pool? A lot of "cool-aid" drinking perhaps?
Maybe surfing the Kelly pool will be as good as the one in Lenmore looks if it ever goes ahead in Aus and is affordable?
God Bless you and them all too anyway
@servant
Ha ha thanks...i was actually surprised with how i felt, i kind of thought before i went that it would be a regular thing and i did two sessions so gave it a good go, but nah pass just didn't enjoy much about the whole deal.
And i have to say it had nothing to do with the staff or guys in the water, the staff and how it was operated was fine and guys/vibe in the water fine and friendly.
@Freeride
Yeah If any other wave pools pop up i guess i will still give them a go at least once if im in the area.
I think that one plunge type one in QLD looks like a better experience, just the setting is more natural and the waves seem more like ocean waves, but im sure its still has nothing on the ocean.
No worries indo-dreaming. Again I fully agree with you, nobodies fault but mine, just not my cup of tea, but I'm grateful for the opportunity and so Blessed to still surf often in God's creation.
I encourage everyone to at least give it a go once to "sea for themselves" (ha...great old surf flick). I know many love it and good on them, that's great, each to their own.
God Bless them all and the surf craft their riding
Are you religious by any chance? It’s difficult to tell.
No, but many thanks for asking scottishsponger. Are you?
I most certainly am, not by chance, literally, eternally grateful for my love and Faith in Jesus (not the swear/curse word which is used here and everywhere) and definitely not interested in any man made "religion", which they all are. Please see 1 Peter 3:15(NIV) if you're genuinely interested.
However, this is not the appropriate forum for in depth discussion on such weighty matters, but if you are sincerely interested, (forgive me please, like Thomas, I'm doubtful), "it's difficult to tell", haha?, then by all means we can find the means to discuss else where.
IF, as I suspect you are poking fun at me, (no offence taken, nor given), as many do here and everywhere else, either way, I really thank you, with brotherly love, God Bless you and I'll pray for you too.
By the way, back on surf topic, it seems we are in the small minority who find the Melb Urbnsurf wave pool less than satisfying. I'm happy and thankful to have tried it.
Jesus Christ, I'll need to be less subtle next time.
Please don't waste your energy praying for me, I don't recall asking you to and feel violated that you would do this without my consent.
Dog Bless.
Thanks for your reply scottishsponger, duly noted by me and Jesus Christ.
Matthew 5:39. Hope you score some good waves soon.
@indo-dreaming i didn't like it the first time for the same aspects + my brand new board got dinged because everyone was jammed up too close in the que. Honestly it gets better and better the more you go. Everyone knows it's not the ocean and they are at a wave pool and can not complain about the concrete and car noise...you are at a concrete wave pool and your not happy about your experience because you carved up 9 waves and got 9 kegs in 55mins. Fark not happy Jan hahahah
Mate you’ve articulated exactly how I felt after trying it for the first time last weekend. I did 4 sessions so gave it a real go, but left feeling like I’d missed out on the show bag containing the psychotropic pill that everyone else had imbibed. Freezing water (13.6C), hassling crowds, way too many people in the water (18 surfers for 12 waves per run), planes taking off, wire mesh, concrete, chlorine, snakes,......It was a bit of novelty fun for the first hour but you’d need to pay me to go back
I found 'em really average and hard to surf too Indo.
and ditto your experiences.
but I'm a total wave pool hater, so I would say that.
Having said that, this pool is close to my parents house and I'll probs try it at least once. It looks more fun and the water will be warm.
Awesome writing Stu - "the KSWC biz model falls apart like an Airfix on a test flight." GOLD :))
I am wondering why all of these models are so close to the coast? I get the whole population access model, but wouldn't these things work better as a destination model? I'm thinking also that somewhere out in the bush or outback would have far more consistent wind variations so you'd never have "blown out" conditions?
My vibe, especially in Oz, would be to have them halfway between population centres - Gold Coast to Melbourne for example, setting up road trip or destination options for surfers to lob and stay for a few days. the land has to be way cheaper too and the smaller rural communities around the places would benefit. Hell, you could even put a bloody golf course around the thing too....
i think wave pools are great... for keeping townies in town.
where you can park your nice townie car and keep it clean.
while sipping a latte and nibbling a croisant .
how..... suburban
ha ha there are some pretty flash cars where i surf and everyone seems to have latte to go (and not in keeper cups).
haha yea lost .
actually is same too .
but in my day it was a coldie and a hooter afterwards with a comedic running commentary of whatever action was goin down in the water .
fk it was fun , and still is
The Coolum development is just a guise for more housing with no investment in infrastructure, developed on a flood plain, on what was once agricultural land (cane fields), and it's more cost effective than golf courses for the developers.
Same guy that did Casurina area at Bogangar/ Cabarita, destroying once great dunal area for those that remember. The Lucky Country proven economic lever - population growth, just pull it and don't worry later care. Mayor Jamieson will be rubbing his hands, no paperbag to see here!
For all the greenwash one finds on many of these setups' websites, not one pool – it seems, I could be mistaken – is willing to let a customer know how much juice a ride will take to generate. I'm a car-drivin' power-chewin' eco-terrorist wanker as bad as the next fella, but I'd still like to know if what it took to generate that wave I just rode in the tub. Like, was it the equivalent of letting an aircon unit run for an hour? A day? A week? Not sure if it'd inform my choices – nothing's gonna get between me and a bogged chlorinated half turn – but it'd be good to know the cost, and be able to compare like for like somehow.
...guaranteed 12-14 bogged chlorinated half turns a hour gra. You know you want 'em.
yeah for sure, but what I want to know is how much power it took to generate those waves I did my bogged rail turns on.
https://wavepoolmag.com/deep-dive-so-how-much-energy-does-a-wave-pool-use/
Cranked - can you tell us the Kilojoules in each wave please
Great article thanks.
Thanks Udo. Good stuff in that article hey, they lay it out in simple terms for a layperson: ie: an electric heater operating for one hour uses 1000 watts, or 1 kW of energy. An average hour at wavegarden chews up 300 to 400 kilowatts, so that's the equivalent of 400 heaters plugged in and running for an hour, (which would mean a shitload of powerboards and double adaptors if nothing else.) It's a lot of juice for sure, and certainly adds up from hour to day to week to month to year, but I'm not judging, and of course speakign in the vaguest generalisations.
Heaters and powerboards should be the recognised energy measurement moving forwards. Can picture it in my head straight away. Are we talking the beige metal vertical bar oil heater things? Or the glowing orange horizontal bar fire hazard ones?
yeah could be either kinda heater. I googled '1000 watt heater' just then and may have accidentally purchased several. not sure
I’m thinking Chevy Chase’s power board on Christmas Vacation!
1 Chevy Chase = 32 stacked double adaptors = 16 electric heaters.
Now, on water volume, how many Sydharbs are moved per wave.
Yep, i reckon there hourly KW figures are a tad low also theres a big power draw from the filtration systems - Southeys our man of knowledge re power
Webber claimed $1 cost per 15 second wave ....So with his 1400 waves per hour claims X a 10 hour day ....Shiiit huge $$$
yeah huge bucks, and extrapolating across the global surge in tubs, another shoe-size up in surfing;'s glorious footprint perhaps.
At least there is a pretty good incentive to get that usage down for operators - electricity being a pretty big input cost in their models so hope they work it out. I wonder if they can’t somehow use the wave itself to help generate power. The other issue is water usage - big pool have a lot of water evaporate everday. Urbrn at least solve this using airport water run off. Running filters would be another energy sucker.
We have the wind - be cool to use it for power
https://www.greenaironline.com/news.php?viewStory=864
In contrast to some of the comments here I really enjoy the Urbrn Surf pool. Have surfed it multiple time on all settings, with friends, with my groms and with strangers. All been good. My tips...
1) Its fun with friends - the more the better. Fun banter as you line up, hoots when mates take off, laughter when people fall. It really is nothing like your crowded local line up.
2) One session is not enough to work out the wave. 2 with a hour break is good. 3 optimal. Yes I know that means big dollars - more like the day rate of a upmarket boat trip or on the snow but if can afford it, do it. To me the pool is like a novel one day boat trip with the guarantee of waves and fun all doable without long flights, leave etc
3) The vibe in the water can be amazing (even better with friends see above) in contrast to snarly faces in many lineup.
4) It can definitely help improve your surfing. I surfed the pool and ocean in the same day and felt the difference.
5) Its not in any way a replacement to the ocean. Don't think of it that way. It is a addition, a extra. I think its possible to really enjoy it for what it is and then get back in the ocean and go how good is this (for many reasons like the salt, the open space etc etc).
6) Other tips - night sessions followed by beers are fun, the booking system is shit, the facilities.
PS I mostly just walk to my local to surf so I'm no urban warrior.
I agree with this.
I've been twice since opening. I don't plan on going regularly. It's a novelty treat.
Although I would add that three sessions in a day will really take it out of you if you're not fit. It's surprisingly hard work. Def harder than a similarly sized one hour session in the ocean. Less waiting around and catching your breath between waves.
Interested in your feedback Lost, im going soon to Urbn in between a connecting flight so will only be able to go during the day which turns out only has "intermediate" timeslots, i have booked a left & right session, how good or lame will it be?. Seems like all the advanced/expert are early morning/late avos'.
First 20mins of intermediate is a very weak wave mate, very little push to it. Get's better as the session goes and and is a bit of fun, just a shame about the start of it. Wouldn't let it stop you from having a crack, but don't lose hope if your first 4-5 waves are pretty soft, last 7-8 should be a bit more fun.
Keep your expectations fairly modest and you will enjoy it. If you are a avid surfer at any average beach break you have definitely surfed a lot worse ! They up it a little every 20mins so it gets better. I’ve seen really good surfers tear it apart so can’t blame the wave. For some reason I enjoy it more on my backhand. Definitely ride your small wave board or fish and I reckon you will have plenty of fun. Let us know how you go.
Thanks for the info DX & Lost, boardwise i was thinking of taking my Hypto, thinking it would be too gutless for my BlakBox 2 epoxy?..i dont have a fish unfortunately. thoughts?
rent one>?
Pyzel Astro Pop epoxy looked the most fun out of what I saw.
interesting sounds good
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=pyzel+astro+pop+review&docid=608000...
I rode an epoxy Holy Grail.
was fun backhand, felt sticky forehand.
I actually think your Hypto will go just fine. Always better to ride a board you know in waves you don’t or a board you don’t in waves you do - just not both. Warning though pool can be brutal on boards up against the wall and when people don’t make the take off and are not quick to clear the zone (. They tell everyone to not try and duck dive and head in and around....many don’t listen). Hire boards although fairly new do look beat up by above said wall and average surfers. Have fun - look forward to hearing what you think.
"Always better to ride a board you know in waves you don’t or a board you don’t in waves you do - just not both."
This is a great tip!
Backhand is way better for turns no doubt.
Why can't I edit my post? Anyway, what I meant was that I agree it's better on your backhand. For turns at least. The barrel can be tricky backside.
Agree. On turns backhand is more fun. On barrels back hand just shows you how good you are not !!!!
Had my 2 sessions last Saturday Lost, can report the Hypto was fine, but there was enough push for the JS i reckon. Overall the experience was alot better than i expected, be keen to go back for another shot. But my god the water was so cold (13C) my 3/2 was under gunned!.
With an overcrowded planet, hence lineups, anything that draws more people to surfing I'm against. Though if that AWM one gets built on the SC I reckon Spring will have me frequenting the place.
Meanwhile, less than 5 minutes a way, the real ocean, with real waves, plods along and pumps out wave after wave after wave after wave, all for free, and not a single cost to produce. There's even a wavepoolesque set up 15 mins north. But yep, spending billions and building on what appears to be dicey at best real estate is also another way to experience the surfing experience i guess.
Cant wait to see the Jack McCoy 16mm wave pool movie : Campylobacter Dreaming.
So you bastards get regularly good waves in warm water, and now you're going to get wave pools too? I don't care how artificial they are - when you're faced with freezing cold, gutless, shit waves 90% of the year like we are near Hobart, you'd deserve a wave pool. However, we don't have the population to support it, so we put up with our shit waves, pay hundreds of dollars for a crack at some chlorine, then put up with the blow-in's chasing our three decent swells a year. Bitter? Who? Me?
What are the odds of a satellite catching a pic of somebody up & riding??
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lemoore,+CA+93245,+USA/@36.2568264,-119.7903027,183a,35y,39.47t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8094bf447efe15e5:0x36f51c562a9b67ef!8m2!3d36.3007835!4d-119.7829107
And news on Sydney is? Wisemans? Is that gone after the floods? Homebush.... thats had about 3-4 new dates of starting work? Anyone know?
It just with all wavepools (open to the public that is) in Aust (except for Melb) we get this big public announcement that we are opening "insert brand"..... wavepool at "ïnsert location"........ and then you hear nothing more ....or delays .....or the developer has changed ....or the type of wavepool has changed... It just shows how much commitment Andrew Ross had to get his tank up in melb!
Wisemans, even with the flood levels, the pool would have still just been above the high mark, by 1.5m I heard. Still in the works.
I had a chat with a friend who is friends with people involved in Wisemans and I was told it will be a members only timeshare style deal. Pay $50k for lifetime access kind of thing.
Don’t know how true this is?
Same as it ever was.
You want the best waves at Break X? You turn up every single day and you try your damn hardest to be the best surfer out there.
May not be $50K cash but it’s hours and hours of your life and the rewards are far greater than any pre allocated wave pool set regardless of their quality.
..I've heard of some very exciting artificial reef prototypes in development...seems a much better option to me..lose the commercial BS, shocking carbon footprint, same beach as you always go to..but nasty closeouts replaced with A frame peaks - what's not to like - imagining this future?
Prototypes ....more info please rr.
udo..in the R&D development tank I'm told, 1st site planned for early 2022..will update when possible..design seems logical...then again so did the Bunbury Balloon..watch this space..I'm just not into the urban, greenwash BS of some of these promoters..its a theme park ride..that's all it is..not "the surfers cathedral; that meeting place that our tribe's never had and always wanted"..as one dim-witted promoter tried to explain to me..
Shit how I wanted that "Bunbury ballon" to be a goer and then it went flat, literally.
Please don't tease RR, it's been a long summer with no banks down here.
Gra if you accidently clicked on buying some heaters while researching, akuna matada winter is coming.
Hey, where would I find more info on the design? Cheers
Are you referring to Greg Webbers reefs? If so....
https://webber-reefs.com/
Agree.
Perth and beaches further south are wasted with closeouts caused from development.
If it works, would be awesome and desperately needed over here.
Looks like Kelly is playing with the shape of his as well..
Stu's gurus did step up to cover both Qld / Japan pools...maybe / kinda!
Sunshine Coast > udo/tbb reported on this Pool last year...that ramped up Qldurr'z makeshift worksite...
( Detailed Plans ) + Local run down.
https://www.swellnet.com/forums/surfing-reef-designs/509749
Stu's- Ranch Tokyo Olympic Dream ...Japan > gave way to AWM ( Timeline + video of first Test Wave )
https://www.swellnet.com/news/swellnet-dispatch/2018/06/28/surf-ranch-bu...
Sure! It's a bit messy but swellnet crew were wingin' it thru Xmas Lock Downs.
Reckon we nailed the boring detail but failed the Glossy stickerz!
I surf a couple times a week in the ocean, went and tried the urbnsurf wave pool and absolutely hated the experience. The wave doesn't act like a real wave, the water flow is weird, queing up is weird, its expensive, unenvironmental, it sounds shit, its really pretentious, yeah I got barelled so what? Why does everyone have to surf anyway? Now surfing's in the olympics and on bank ads, watch ads, home loan ads. It's the aspirational lifestyle balance option. It's the new cycling. I preferred it when pro surfers were obsessive maniacs with a death wish. Surfing was independent and heroic. It was the opposite to a neat haircut and a training plan and a dietician. Now wave pools are making it a blow up doll with realistic hair and lipstick.
BTK > that's really astute and funny, especially "wave pools are making it a blow up doll with realistic hair and lipstick." Ha! > RR
Well said, I’m genuinely suspicious of the people championing this. It’s a horror show
hahahahaha.
it was that weird water flow that got to me too.
felt like my board had brakes on it.
We are already seeing the effects of the Tub in the water down south. I'm not sure it's having any positive effect on crowds in the real ocean, though.
Might have been at a name-break last week where the Tubberati were talking excitedly and loudly amongst themselves about how good it was chucking buckets in the newly-created Advanced Turns setting at Tulla. Ripping, they were. It's just a shame their surfing in the real ocean doesn't appear to reflect their apparent ability in the Tub. Also interesting that they seem to consider themselves deserving of multiple set waves cos it's technically their turn, despite sitting 5-10 yards off on the shoulder.
I think one of the serious downsides to the wave pool concept is that while the orderly procession of surfers to the takeoff has to be the case in the pool, quite a few people seem to think that's how surfing works and that it's fine if you blow set waves. Not sure they haven't figured out that there are rarely another 9 waves behind that one-wave set.
The Tub also doesn't provide much opportunity to educate beginners: there's no real need to talk about snaking or dropping in, safety, control of your board, awareness etc. A few sessions on Cruiser in the Tub and hey presto! you're right to hit one of the points on your log with 45 others.
Wow, that's not ideal at all.
That’s fucken terrifying tango.
Zombie apocalypse springs to mind, SS.
"The good old days are now" rings truer than ever.
If the American Waves Machines tech could push up an extra 2-3 feet, it'd be pretty sick. Hopefully its scaleable.
The larger one to be built in Florida may do just that, who knows. Double the pool size and mysterious wave making machinations at least. So will be interesting to see the new wave variations possible.
Its surely the most cost effect, viable, compact and easily built tech to date it seems.
I cringe looking at the Wavegarden setups, it gets old really quickly. Although Korea is a big step FW with more modules.
Slightly less cringe for Surf Lakes.
KS pool doesn't even break like a wave. Impressive as it is.
Who caught this ?
https://www.broadsheet.com.au/sydney/city-file/article/huge-wave-pool-op...
https://www.wisemans.surf/
Wonder what tech they are using ......?
I'm trying to look at this as the ultimate in ironic corporate social responsibility.
A bunch of people who have harnessed the act of surfing at some level for their own enrichment decide to create more waves to slake the thirst for waves they have helped create. Now there's a winning business model - fingers in the pies of demand and supply. Brilliant.
Indeed Tango. Smart bunch of guys also.
Wisemans is a fitting location then I suppose.
Surf loch / Wave loch
f##k this no edit function !
The Wave-pool industry reminds me of the airline industry...currently following the same pathway as I see it. The start-ups back in the 60-70s required heavy investment in facilities as well as the planes themselves, most ended up being government back. As time has progressed the whole entire sector has been fully commercialized down to the dollar for weight flying value etc.
I see this going the same way but eventually they'll be financial shocks to the capitalist system we all live in and as many have commented the sector will have abandoned structures, just like we now have abandoned airlines.
It all appears an incredibly expensive exercise for a wave (IMHO) but it was also the same said about the airline industry as companies have come and gone. Unless they're backed by a government, they usually fail, this may (probably will?) have the same fate.
I have surfed a few wave pools, both here and overseas, and I find the "experience" from start to finish is what you reflect on most. If you're paying cash to be there, you start to reflect on the "Okay, what exactly am I getting here" factor, good service? Clean, easy to use facilities, a happy customer experience etc...it becomes more than just getting a wave.
Even going to a beach is like that these days. Maybe local councils should charge money for these "world class surf breaks" like Snapper, or Bells and it becomes a seamless customer experience...rather than a 'locals rule' factor.
We live in a world of 7-billion+ (and continually rising) now.. how does surfing not survive this growth in the sport without it being managed?
As much as there are the old-school thoughts on 'how it used to be' - I would say this whole sport is changing and very very fast, I would not be surprised if in another 50-years time there is easier and easier ways to literally get on a wave, to the point where the original Search-style adventure is gone, much like pre-packaged holidays have taken over the travel sector and the airline industry laps it all up...because it's good for business.
Anyone seen this for example??
I'm expecting it at my local beaches in the not too distant future.
Paddling out will be a thing of the past and priority wave placement in the car-park of folks sitting on boards will be gone because you just line up...and off ya go.
Is what it is...
Future is coming and it often happens faster than you can tolerate as change is something most don't like.
EE.
The old user-pays, EE?
There are arguments for and against it, to be sure. The most coarse of which would be we pay for the coast via our taxes vs paying might provide more equitable opportunities for a public resource. There are many others.
Out of interest, how would you approach the allocation of the resource in the event everyone did have to pay to play? Would you price it high to reduce demand, or price it low for accessibility? Would local ratepayers who fund the activities of the local council get a 2-pass pack similar to city parking?
I don't disagree that it's coming in some shape or form, but I do hope it's not in my lifetime. I'm a self-interested bastard who has spent over 40 years getting my stripes and struggling towards the top of the food chain only to witness the whole beanstalk collapsing under the "weight of wank", as FR so eloquently put it, where it's become a relative free-for-all often lacking in style and substance, and certainly order, in the lineup.
Ahhh, it's a no win scenario I'd say because you piss someone off somewhere.
If you start pricing things and managing it all, the free-living lifestyle on which surfing is built (and the main thing that keeps me interested these days) disappears, cos as I said above, ppl will seek out what they pay for.
It's kinda what I think Byron is losing, it used to be that "Surfing Mecca" with the vibe to boot...but it appears it's losing the allure and the upkeep of the shine is all priced in with a high price tag.
It's one of the things I have found frustrates me about surfing, it's a vibe everyone seeks out, but there is always some property developer in the mix or someone out there generally whom looks to comercialise it all. As we're discussing.
So I dunno what ya do there, but it appears the Wave Pool thing is just another form of putting a price tag on that 'experience' that people appear to long for regarding the Surfer Vibe.
The progression of the sport is great.
But at what cost? (Not just financial but cultural etc)
Take it easy.
EE.
Think airlines... if a farsighted capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk, he would have done his successors a huge favor by shooting Orville down.
-- Warren Buffett, in the 2007 Berkshire Hathaway shareholder letter
that is farkin terrifying.
"I have surfed a few wave pools, both here and overseas, and I find the "experience" from start to finish is what you reflect on most. If you're paying cash to be there, you start to reflect on the "Okay, what exactly am I getting here" factor, good service? Clean, easy to use facilities, a happy customer experience etc...it becomes more than just getting a wave."
Not for me.
I couldn't really give a fuck about the rest of it.
In fact, that whole wanked-out, ultra-gentrified, getting your bracelet from the PE teacher vibe is what I hate about it.
I'd love something a bit more raw and gritty, like a skate-park.
Appreciate that is a minority view though.
Agree with the rest of the post.
I'm with you, I actually took part in their initial customer survey sessions about what crew want to see with the park facilities, and my view was if putting in a restaurant, don't make it outrageously over-priced where you're paying $20+ for a tiny pizza and $12 for a beer (which is what they ended up doing), give us some basics too as we've already forked out heaps to surf the waves. I couldn't give a shit about all the fancy stuff, I'm there to surf waves when the ocean is shit or I can't make the time to get down the coast cos I got kids and need to plan my time better. Appreciate everyone is different but I go there, surf, and go home, after all it's tullamarine, for most getting on the beers means a very expensive uber ride home!
Be interesting to see how their annual price increases go. 12 months in and advanced setting has already increased $10 an hour, which is a 12.6% increase. I get they copped it big time last year with lockdowns, but at that rate it won't be long until majority are priced out.
"I'd love something a bit more raw and gritty, like a skate-park."
That would be amazing! Just build the thing, leave it running and let the public have at it. What an incredible shitfight it would be. I love it.
Throw in some wildlife and now you are talking ....
"In fact, that whole wanked-out, ultra-gentrified, getting your bracelet from the PE teacher vibe is what I hate about it."
Ha ha im hearing you, the staff and even guys in the water there were fine, but yeah i felt that PE teacher organised sport vibe, it just felt so unnatural to me on every level, i was always attracted to surfing and just other things like skating or bike riding etc, because in part it was something you have total control of just you and the ocean.
I've now realized I'm basically a conservative hippy.
Oh I get it FR.
It's just sad to see what once was, raw surfing and Search-style expeditions exploring the unknown, just disappear a little bit at a time.
Kinda like taking that band-aid off a bit at a time..it grinds out.
I watched Dogtown/Z-Boys other day and really enjoyed reflecting on that groundbreaking change, particularly the empty swimming pools being used for something completely different.
Those guys took skateboarding to whole different ball game and it was just such a pivotal moment in history of the sport. Such a good doco that captures that.
Is the Wave Pool a new era that will be ground breaking?
I'm on the fence with it all but I think it's going to grow more than what people think.
Similarities exist I think where following that initial brief era that the Z-boys lived through, the commercial pundits came along, started paying the boys to promote things how the public will digest it, and off ya go..
Rebellious Radical Served up on a plate and the tax-collecting government loves it cos everyone's making money and that wildness is tamed a little bit more.
So I get it, and yeah, it's disappearing that little bit more.
Take it easy.
EE.
https://www.threeblueducks.com/melbourne/
Jesus holy fark Tuckers not cheap at these pools !
10 bucks for a pie.
13 bucks for a bacon and egg sanga.
It's not that people don't like change.
We love new swells and good sand, thats all change.
I guess seeing something like surfing being suffocated to death under the weight of wank is harder to take.
I guess it's providing employment.
“weight of wank”
Glorious
https://www.facebook.com/events/melbourne-airport/melbourne-airport-food...
Not actually putting shit on wave pools cause ive never tried and maybe never will but why is every bastard and his dog getting into it ,buying into it and doing it.... surfing........its so cool now .......why?
what flicked the switch ....covid ...it was heading this way a few years ago ?
Have considered this at length. I believe it's a shift in the underlying subconscious of many, many people - away from the organised recreation created by people in urban environments - and (back?) toward defining self as immersed in nature. This also explains all the other nature-based/individualist sports taking off, eg the mountain biking.
When more cynical, I think it's because of all of the fcuking beer adverts showin a log gliding by in the winter sun at the Pass at about waist height. This captures the zeitgeist exactly. In a world of electronic vicariousness, there is an incredibly strong desire for something both real, and something that recharges the essence. Kick back from the stress. (The desire for authenticity is somewhat amusing... authenticity includes being shitscared and half a mile out at sea Down South as you are about to be caught inside - you don't see that on the beer ads!)
Regardless, lifelong multifin shortboard riders prepare to be inundated by resin-tinted logs, 2+1 midlengths, big wide, 3"+ thick fish: wherever you are. Don't say I didn't warn you.
Pretty darn good summary there VJ, well said
And actually add to that even more than beer ads driving those images into peoples brains.... instagram. All about the gram these days. Livin the life, #vanlyfe #freespirits #whateverthefuckmakesyourlifelookcoolerthanitis.
You don't see organised sport insta pages popular as all hell, but you certainly see shitloads of pastel coloured, feet hanging out the car overlooking the waves, backshots of you walking to the water board under ya arm, uncrowded waves on midlengths taking the high-line with everyone pretending they are Torren Martin.... that said fuck that bloke can surf and I wish I was him...haha
It's interesting DX3, we're seeing the death of a whole paradigm at the same time, check out the Insta (or twitter, I mix them up) of 'Empty Stadium Seats' for example. No one cares any more.
Byron Bay having there own Dollar's to be Made by the Big-wig Corporates..
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-18/byron-bay-says-no-to-netflix/1000...
I doubt they'll win either...
That Vibe is sloooooooooooooooooooowly disappearing man........
Rip...rip....rip with the new-way of "livin' a #vanlife" connected to mobile Wi-fi coming thru...
Anyone see this too? (https://www.livemint.com/technology/tech-news/elon-musk-assures-affordab...)
Soon every destination (including surf spot) you can dream of will be beamed down those Instagram feeds...
Everyone who is anyone, will be "working from home" and riding waves everywhere.
Change is coming man....it's coming...
EE.
hahahahaha, that happened 5 years ago VJ!
Byron is the lip of the slippery slope in so many ways.
It spreads outward from ground zero locations FR, much like blood on a shirt from a gunshot wound.
The front bar of the Top Pub back in the 70's was one of the scariest rooms I have ever been in, ever.
Not to many insta-influencers back then.
hard to believe that not that long ago Byron Bay was a working class town ruled by the factory whistle and the boning knife.
I’ve done UrbnSurf a couple of times with mates and I’m a fan. It’s different and takes a few sessions to get your head around, and you do get a lot of waves. It’s never going to replace the real thing and it offers a lot more than your average summer slop session at your local. It’s interesting in that it seems to have a percentage of non-surfer types surfing there, people who just want to ride waves and won’t want to embrace the whole surfer lifestyle thing. Last time I met a couple of people who were having fun surfing that had never surfed at a beach. One was a 71 year old guy who was having a ball. The pool surfers technique is a lot less dynamic than ocean surfers, they seem to surf along the wave sort of like was done in the early 1970’s.
I surfed Urbn Surf for the first time on Saturday just gone.
Overall I would rate it as a great experience and I'll be going back.
....yes it's not 'authentic', and yes you have to queue etc, but i went there with a view to have some fun - and i did. I'm not chalking the fact that it is different up as a negative.
(and i enjoyed my $26 pizza and $13 beer afterwards)
This guys vids are pretty good.........
&ab_channel=KaleBrockThanks for sharing Simba..like the format...ie non pro in the same waves
The Coolum site is sooo wrong for a wave pool. This site is within the Coolum Ck Conservation Park as determined by the Qld Gov's South East Queensland Regional Plan. This is old cane land prone to flooding and acid sulfate soil conditions that require comprehensive treatment & management.
I conducted land surveys of this area back in early 2000s for a proposed canal development called Malibu Lakes. There are numerous drainage channels crisscrossing the old paddocks to help with flood mitigation and save the cane from drowning. This development was canned with the declaration of the SEQ Regional Plan. Any rezoning application would be done through the State Gov and not the Sunny Coast Council.
The Motorway which borders the eastern side is approx 5m above the levels of the site and acts like a levee bank holding water over the area while it drains slowly into Coolum Yandina Creek then into Maroochy River. The motorway is heavily congested at times and would require duplication at tax payer's expense to cope with future developments.
All these problematic site conditions at Coolum make the Glass House Mtns proposal gold in comparison.
I moved to Coolum 1992. I am yet to speak to anyone in this area who is a vocal support of the Coolum proposal. It's an ocean wave for me.
That's pretty disgusting. Good luck to you and the local crew in some kind of intervention to stop this. Two thumbs down Kelly slater. Not cool at all. Our coasts are shrinking under the weight of huge developments.
Thank you for that. I'm descended from some of those farmers, and yep, there are flood stories galore. 50 year timeframes (take with the anecdotal pinch of salt, but it happens...) You'd be nuts to develop it.
I’ve surfed Urbnsurf in Melbourne pretty regularly since it opened. I’m in my mid fifties and have been in the water for forty of them. I literally clocked up hundreds of waves. I am at an age where I was expecting a decline in my ability. The reality is that I’m actually getting better. My fitness has returned close to what it was when I was forty. I’m no longer getting snaked at the beach by groms with a wiff of old blood in the water.
Wave pools are not an either or option. I have a busy job in the city which allows me the luxury of catching waves at 9pm on any given school night. I run into mates in the lineup and have made new pool mates. It’s somewhere between a golf club and a gym. As for the cold, I decided to harder up. Also, wetsuit tech has come a very long way in 40 years.
it's definitely a workout.
what board are you riding there Simon?
Put it at Dreamworld where it belongs. It’s an amusement park. Closer to Brisbane with 4 lanes the whole way. Right in the heart of the GC development corridor at Upper Lower Middle Coomera so plenty of fodder. And if 4 people die when the ride malfunctions no one goes to jail.
As an aside: The Sunny Coast is already cooked. Instacnts and COVID has just accelerated it. Zoo in the water, Melbournite cafe culture bs in the little ex- surf towns and any number of Antipodean accents staking their claim to everything everywhere you go.
This shit is spreading its fingers well beyond your town FR. It’s timing is Proportional to its distance from any major city.
Surfing in the wave pool is like masturbating. Yeah you get a little kick out of it but the instant gratification of it all leaves a hollow feeling.
The four play and cat and mouse games you play with the ocean even when she’s at her butt ugliest always gives the best satisfaction when you score a good ride.
Well said Plops..
I also think that when Huey turns it on, it is very VERY entertaining watching all the holiday-makers whom were riding easy-to-ride friendly rollers suddenly get themselves in a breaking zone with a Widow-maker 12-footer double-up that comes out of no-where, they do the old throw-the board or attempt some mix of turtle-role come duck-dive and the look on their face as they doggy-paddle to the top is one of those priceless "shit just got real" looks.
The ocean I have found is like someone whom get's to know you on those nice lovely days and then suddenly shows you who's boss and makes the rules if you decide to test your limits.
Is what it is...I'm sure we will still get lots of these video's thrown at us in the future as people insist on posting their exploits on things that have been experienced many a time before..
Then they'll be back to the Wave Pool.
Just like the ending of Finding Nemo...back in the safety of a protected reef.
All with a lovely little soundtrack to boot over the speakers/stage shows they have there sometimes at Urban Surf. ;-)
Hehehe...
EE.
Gary Linden is probably a poor choice to make your point EE, he's no stranger to big waves and can usually handle himself, but age is more than likely working against him in those types of waves in recent years.
I used to ride one of his guns for a little while, the guy can shape a board.
I never get a hollow feeling after masturbation. I’ve usually got a healthy glow, and wallow in the knowledge of all the time I saved compared to hitting up a woman, plus I can roll over and go back to sleep with no repercussions.
Perhaps you’re doing it wrong. :-)
As usual, Wave Pool article make for a very long & interesting forum/thread :)
Just my opinion, but after surfing for 40 years and meeting a lot of surfers, I have come to the conclusion that a lot of surfers seem to have a chip on their shoulders when it come to the "Purity" of surfing and anything that they feel will degrade it.
With this mind-set, anything man-made is Evil and should be banished [Despite them riding a man-made surfboard!] I get where they are coming from to a degree as I too love the Purity of surfing in the ocean and feel nothing in my life has come close to those "magic" experiences in the water.
So when you are surfing D'Bah or TOS and get one of the sickest barrels of your life does it become cheapened because those waves are man-made? Will you always harbor a sense of guilt knowing you cheated? Those waves are too perfect and the paddle out too easy, and you didn't have to struggle for 2 hours to find one manageable section to surf? How dare you have any sense of satisfaction, you Un-pure bastard!.
Well call me dirty because I just want to catch waves, lots and lots of waves. In fact way more than the ocean can provide me with on a daily basis. So no offense to mother nature but if she isn't going to provide for me today, then I am going elsewhere, and I'll come home stoked and ready for the ocean when she wants to play....maybe tomorrow? :)
I also feel anyone who really knows the ocean would NEVER believe wave-pools would be a substitute. It's just more waves to surf, pure and simple.
it's split the pack.
Some people are turned off by the artificial environment and for other people it's just another wave to surf.
The only new thing we've learnt here is that some people (at least one) reckons it's improved their ocean surfing.
Anyone else feel that way?
It does seem to split the online pack, but I don't ever hear anything bad about it....in the pool or in the ocean. You only hear people frothing on it. Of course, the people who aren't fans probably just don't say anything, but the frothers you hear.....they're a diverse group. Groms, older crew, pro's/semi-pro's. People who you would think would be purists still rave on about it. It's not just the old stereotypical city surfer who loves it - it can traverse surfer types quite broadly.
It certainly is helping my surfing. As fake as the wave is, the turns and tubes still exercise the muscles and coordination exactly the same as it would it the ocean - and the quantity is high.
I guess the people who don't dig it probably keep schtum.
I know there were quite a few crew around here who were planning on getting premium passes or whatever they are called, went once, and never went back.
Lot of "been there done that, got the t-shirt" crew that I talk to about it.
I wouldn't bother but I'll probably take my son there for a go if they don't get that one built on the Sunny Coast within 3 years.
What do you notice has improved when you ride an ocean wave Stok?
Is there anything different, or even worse, when you go back and have to hassle and compete for waves?
Yeah I'd say if you're not within striking distance of it, it'll be a mostly do only once thing, unless you regularly travel to Melbourne.
It's improved pretty much every aspect of my surfing except for dealing with crowds, the unpredictability of the ocean and size/waves of consequence.
I still much prefer ocean waves, but the proper surfs I've had since the pool opened....I have noticed sometimes I may get say 20 waves, but only about half are any good (on a good day). The remaining half maybe I didn't make it round the section, or it closed out or whatever. The pool removes that chance, which can help give you the gratification you need without the frustrations of competing for waves.
Obviously there's the thrill of scoring good waves, getting the wave of the day among the crowd or scoring something epic by yourself. But if it's under 3ft down the coast and likely to be rammed with crew everywhere....you know it's pretty unlikely you'll be getting what you want by going for a surf. So the pool kind of comes in as a pretty good option then.
Gary's going to break from talking in the 3rd person on this one... First time for everything.
I'll never trade the ocean for a tub, but it doesn't need to be a dichotomy.
Yep Steve: time in the pool at URBNSurf has absolutely improved my surfing in the ocean (as has a few coaching sessions over the last 18 months to fix a few of the worst parts of my technique - can highly recommend Luke @ Archy Surf on Philip Island for that).
I'm in a similar boat to Simon Ashford. I'm 39, live in Melbourne and surf weekly or maybe a bit more depending on forecast/life. I keep a low profile; generally paddle out in the dark and I often seek out the windows/tides when it'll be good but quiet. In the last week I surfed the tub on Tuesday, Surf coast on Sat, then tub again yesterday arvo with some mates plus a beer or two after.
The tub isn't an either/or - I can get a session in at 6am on a weekday and be home by 7:30 to get the kids ready for school, and then hit the beach (mix of surf coast, peninsula and PI area) at other times.
The extra time in water, on the relatively blank canvas afforded by the tub waves, is helping me surf faster and turn tighter. What's amazing is you can measure the improvement in weeks, not months, which is mind boggling at my age. The tight transition and small margin for error (between finding the power source and being too far out on the shoulder) is improving my bottom turn and timing; which drives improvement in pretty much every facet of surfing. I also generally link sections better now; very handy on waves like centreside which can be flat yet fast.
This is in addition to paddle fitness too - When there's a half full session I'm regularly catching >20 waves in the hour. Ocean surfing is better for endurance paddling though
hard to replicate an uphill paddle from the valley through to uppers at Winki
I understand that not everyone likes the concrete, but for me it's a great supplement that keeps me tuned up for the beach.
A lot of complaints above are that the wave is hard to surf. This is true but I look at it from a different angle. The wave can be learned, yes, but moreso it is a harsh mirror on your own ability and that is confronting. Good surfers surf well at URBNSurf. You can paper over your inability very easily on the surf coast because they are everyman waves - heaps of average surfers love Winki because you go fast and that feels sick, but they are actually surfing way in front of the wave. If you want to surf well at the tub you need to stay close to the power source and this is absolutely transferable to the ocean.
My views on hassling are unchanged: I generally try to find quieter periods but it is what it is.
Spot on Garry. The tub is a "and" not a or.
sick one Gary G.
Maybe thats why I didn't like the Tub, made me feel like too much of a kook.
My first session there was such a disaster I was seriously asking myself "are you sure that surfing is really for you?"
As I said earlier, (and there is def some good analogies from others above too) - I think it's the "paying for a service" that is delivered to your door, like junk food from a teenager bought to you on a bike.
It's not the same as going and hunting down your own food, (Fishing etc) that gives you a different vibe/culture associated with the task. Escape from the binds of society conformity and control.
Surfing has a culture (to my recollection anyway) of The Search and scoring waves that are tough to get to, difficult to find (on the right day) and if you do score, you tend to share the experience secretly with those you care about / trust, and then plan to score those waves again...until someone else finds out.. Our Internet age is fast making that Search/Discovery factor disappear.
Urban Surf and all other wave pools just take all that culture away a little bit at a time. That culture of surfing disappears with people whom I guess can't be bothered searching anymore cos they earn enough money and they are happy to lose it (cash, culture, searching) for a quick hit of mass-produced water inertia along with an over-priced beer, chips and pizza afterwards..
No sharks, rays, stingers, sunburn (if you go at night) or long-trips driving (depending where you are) also all add to that allure of not searching anymore.
I remember also reading on a Google review of the place (Urban Surf), a mother writing about her son sustaining an injury from another rogue board and wanting financial compensation. Now if that happens at the beach, generally speaking, an injury that is sustained won't lead to much, because you're in an uncontrolled (nature) environment.
Even though they plonk that piece of paper in front of you to sign with respect to risk factors involved in surfing / activity etc,. everyone knows (including Urban Surf) if things really hits the fan in a big way, a lawyer might rewrite the Surfing rulebook etc.
There is no jurisdiction for the lawyers (as far as I know??) when making a case against mother nature, acts of God and random related incidents in the wild open Ocean...
A single individual maybe whom has acted in a manner that was to intentionally cause harm...but I dunno, a Wave Pool environment can switch all that up.
Anyway...whole new discussion there.
I remain on the fence with it all myself being a good thing for surfing. It promotes the sport, it gives others options for doing it when otherwise they can't...but it becomes packaged and is a different kind of wave searching to the original culture.
Given enough time, generations on just won't care other than saying things like, "Oh, nah I don't do real Ocean surfing, that's my thing" etc..
One day, there maybe a wave-pool somewhere just out of New York city or hrmmm maybe London? Maybe Shanghai? It'll just become more prevalent if there is financially well-off punters forking out cash.
This is there current wave pool... ha.
Take it easy.
EE.
"Urban Surf and all other wave pools just take all that culture away a little bit at a time. That culture of surfing disappears with people whom I guess can't be bothered searching anymore cos they earn enough money and they are happy to lose it (cash, culture, searching) for a quick hit of mass-produced water inertia along with an over-priced beer, chips and pizza afterwards..
No sharks, rays, stingers, sunburn (if you go at night) or long-trips driving (depending where you are) also all add to that allure of not searching anymore."
I generally agree and I love searching for waves and having the special experiences that reward that on occasion. But I also have 2 toddlers and live in Melbourne. The amount of chances I get to disappear for 1/4 of a weekend are extremely minimal and the guilt that goes along with it kinda puts a dampener on it anyway.
If I can duck out to the pool (20 mins away) after the kids have gone to bed on a weeknight to maintain a connection to the thing that I love, even if it's not the ideal version of it, then that's just great :)
hahahhahahaah.
It's interesting what gets you stoked though.
other day I had a solo surf with my son, at waves that were far better than they deserved to be for no one out.
I did some turns.
but the wave that got me the most stoked was just a straight down the line speed run. No turns from start to finish.
just that feeling of speed and flying on the water, it was so intoxicating.
I felt like I was surfing with a sea anchor attached in the tub. the way that water keeps dragging back into the wave.
but no doubt I was trying to go far, too far out on the face.
which was a losing strategy.
Funny how it's the little things, hey. I had a few OK turns on the weekend but the wave I got the buzz from was a set that I raced but it ultimately closed out. Getting down low with my hand just above the water and the sensation of it flying by underneath at top speed.
"here maybe a wave-pool somewhere just out of New York city or hrmmm maybe London? Maybe Shanghai"
that's def what concerns me along with the enviro footprint.
1. how will this impact numbers in the ocean and (as someone has mentioned anecdotally above) 2. will we see a change in attitude in the water.
global surf numbers (and their ability) will go gangbusters.
thats the nightmare scenario.
a busload of "pool" surfers from New York/Shanghai/Moscow, with zero knowledge of etiquette showing up at your home break.
Ahhh come on FR, all surfers can have bad etiquette. You're just as likely to be snaked or dropped in on by a kook as you are a good surfer.
I'm still amazed that the booking system is so bad. It has to be the worst website I've ever used.
Have to agree - its terrible plus they refuse to publish the two most import things for planning 1) daily water temperature and 2) a schedule for the month.
1) Now freezing.
2) Chockers.
Yeah the website is very clunky. Would be nice to see a schedule up rather than having to fumble through the booking page trying to work out when sessions are.
I think the pool is fun but if it's a full session or close to, there's too much waiting around and I feel underdone after an hour.
Was there yesterday and can confirm the water is already very cold.
Jeez, if it's "very cold" now, in April, then when does it warm up again? November..?
Gonna have to make hay through summer if that's the case.
Probably Sept/October to be fair. As soon as we start cracking the high teens/twenties.
I surfed last Tuesday there, after the weekend weather which barely topped 12 degrees from Friday through to Monday, and it was 13.4. The week before it was 17.
It just swings so quickly.
I don't suppose the hot tubs are working yet are they ?
Nope, hot tubs still out of action.
I’d say the water temp now is equivalent to what is in the ocean in Vic in the depths of winter.
I did a session in June or July last year when they reopened briefly. Brutally cold. I think the water was about 10 degrees.
that'll be a hard pass for me.
warm water or GTFO
"Would be nice to see a schedule up rather than having to fumble through the booking page trying to work out when sessions are."
I know. And if the sessions are full it still tries to make you choose one while you're trying to choose another one and you end up with 500 sessions 'booked' before you know it!
And why does it say it recognises you and then makes you put in all your details again!
And why etc and so on...?!?!?
UX on the bookings page leaves a lot to be desired. You can learn how to navigate if you use it regularly but if not it would be bloody frustrating
were you fine on a 3/2 or would you recommend a 4/3 to feel comfortable? have booked something for mid-May.
4/3 for mid-May. You may also want booties and/or a hood.
there's huge difference I reckon, in the "new breed" of kook.
it's a toxic combination of both entitlement and ignorance.
And the sheer weight of numbers could easily lead to the Hobbesian war of all against all.
The new breed go beyond kook, I think. Historically kooks were just ignorant, but this new entitlement, as you rightly put it, makes them infinitely more frustrating and annoying in the lineup.
There are many areas we could dwell on but I think the most frustrating thing bout the new breed is that they translate their own ability all too often to the experienced surfer flying down the line and reason to themselves that, well, there's no way I could make that section...so there's no way they can.....so I'll drop in.
Articulated perfectly here... https://www.monsterchildren.com/10-things-i-hate-with-dane-reynolds/
Notably also mentions the WSL's instagram which along with anything coming from 'WSL Studios' seems geared at generating this type of kookiness
“was built on a site measuring less than 1 hectare - approx. 75m wide x 150m long”
Ok, pedant police time. A hectare is 10,000 square metres. 150 *75 is 11,250, which is more than 1 hectare.
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
Plenty of commentary, me, I don’t care. Can’t see myself going but you never know, but I’m not paying for the privilege of 13 degree water, so Melbourne’s out.
Love being in the ocean, but crowds can kill that. Best of all is of course is just you and a few friends at a quiet break somewhere. Nobody would disagree with that.
As for whether it gets up or not, it’s a damned tricky proposition, capital development wise. The construction industry has got away with the fact that even really bad ideas have managed ok because house prices have gone up 20% or more while they’re being built. Low interest rates make a lot of this feasible, but the slightest increase in rates can be catastrophic.
Then running costs, and that is mostly energy, maintenance and staff wages. It’s a tricky proposition making this pay. Plus $100M doesn’t get you much these days, this development looks like a billion plus.
When the tubs were first muted people made the comparison to skateparks.
I think we can see now that comparison is invalid.
They are building a new skatepark in Byron.
2.6 million, which is chickenfeed.
No ongoing costs and completely free for anyone, anytime to use.
Be interesting to see if any of the tub manufactures manage to persuade govts to tip in taxpayer money to build using the skatepark justification.
The cost aspect is an interesting one, which gets brought up here frequently.
Doing some rough maths:
sessions per day (14 hours x 2 {left and right}) = 28
average punters per session = 15
Average price per session = $70
Approx revenue = 28 x 15 x 70 = $29400 per day, or approx $11 million per annum.
I don't know cost to build (maybe one of you can elaborate), but by the looks of the numbers above, they should be able to find the $$ to maintain and run the park, plus make a profit, out of $30k per day. Not sure they will need government to chip in anytime soon.
I'm heading down for the first time this weekend. The 13 deg water doesn't sound fun, but everyone I have spoken to who has been so far raves about it.
Time will tell!!
Sunshine Coast has been flat / crap lately so happy with anything rideable.
Troppo, couple of tips from my 1st session. I was so keen to get to out there i ended up 1st in the cue, dont make this mistake aim for about 3rd to 4th person in line, this way youll get a feel for where to sit (about an arms length off the wall and about 1 metre away from the flag , the flag is where it breaks) and note how hard you need to paddle, better to paddle harder for your first wave than you normally do in the ocean other wise youll miss the wave and have to go to the end of the line. Try to ride the wave to the end the closer you end up near the rip out the less energy used. If theres 14 people people out dont bust your arse to get back out theres only 12 wave sets. Take to warmest wetty you have, booties gloves, Take warm clothes to change into including beanie, most Qlders prob dont own one, get one.
Big $
https://theurbandeveloper.com/articles/40m-vision-australias-first-surf-...
Brisbane metro could do with a few. Dissuade everyone from coming up here.
Burger King/hungry jacks - dreaming! They just need to scale up Beefys Pies!
"... boasting of 200 waves every six minutes...". What? That's a wave every half-second or so. Either their contraption is going to deliver up the worst wind-slop-like rubbish ever witnessed, or there's a typo there somewhere.
They do, however, state this in their blurb: "A standard set can be anywhere from three to six waves which will take up to 30 seconds from first to last wave in the set. The time between waves in a set is around six seconds. The time between sets is around 60 seconds (to allow for crowd management and recharge of the machine)."
That makes more sense.
There are five waves split around the basin, each with a left and right, so in effect ten waves.
Can't be arsed doing the rest of the math, but because of that the period is longer.
Well, now it does make sense. Ta.
FNQ proposal
https://apple.news/A19PUTTGrTRiILBsNTpwZ1g
Oh I can’t wait to throw some coin around in the wellness centre after my sesh. I hope they have sound healing.
Anyone know whats the latest with the Webber pool proposed by Ocean Sports Development in Florida?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-02/cost-and-complexity-of-building-s...
Thanks for the link Udo, the GC guy has been on the local radio this week.
My first thought is disappointment for all involved once the Parkwood locals get wind of the noise it’ll make. Will need a healthy dose of GC corruption to get up.