"It may be tempting fate to write this, but South Australia has become a safe place to surf."

Thanks Stu, you've just fuckin' jinxed it.

It is strange. I remember around Xmas about 2 years ago there were a few 4m shark sightings east of the Goolwa car park in the ‘surfers zone’ and then there was a reported sighting on the shark watch Facebook page of 4 GWS 4m in length, a couple of hundred metres to the right of the main beach carpark around 200-300m out. No doubt there were surfers out around there unaware of a pack of GWS’s nearby.
It seems they might be out around there regularly at times. It would be handy to know why there seems to be these clusters of attacks.

Whites were pretty much fished out in nsw waters by the time surfing really took off in the late 60s and there main food source the whale was in danger of going extinct but in South Aus it was probably still buisness as usual only that more people took up surfing in less crowded spots so more opportunity for white sharks.As for a pattern of attacks well i dont think there can be a pattern as they are opportunistic hunters so they feed when they can .Also from what i can gather is that most attacks in SA were from large whites not juveniles so its possible the last haven for breeding whites was SA and WA ....anyway its all speculation but the bottom line is there weren't many GWS breeding 20 years ago but there is now.

Would the age of these sharks attacking in northern nsw be the reason for the amount of incidents?
And of course the fact they're protected thus increasing numbers. I've mentioned it before in another thread and I'm not sure how true this is however I was told recently from a mate that female GWS can give birth to up to 15 offspring! Like I said unconfirmed but my other question is how often do they give birth?
Thoughts go to those whom are mentioned in the above article also. RIP

V big difference in the reactions also due to the fact that white sharks were protected in '99.
Which means before that, and even afterwards local fishos could and did take matters into their own hands, effectively local culls.

Just like after the Byron Bay/Julian Rocks fatality in '93 a local fisho was deputised to go and catch the shark, which he duly did.
Well, at least he fought an epic 6-8hr battle with the shark until it broke the chain.

SA surfers had always lived with the presence of white sharks.

V different story for east coast surfers.

when a juvenile white was washed up on the beach at Byron in the early 2000's just after the Cape Byron Marine Park was gazetted the marine park manager refused to believe it because the white shark was not considered to be a part of the marine fauna of the area.

The one and only time I spent at Cactus was in 1999 for about 3 weeks whilst on the loop around Aus. Epic experience. Before we got there I distinctly remember the fear based thoughts around GWS attacks etc but I must say our main concerns/fears were coming from the past stories surrounding the locals. Never saw or heard of any sharks (no doubt they we're there) and the handful of locals that were present were very friendly and respectful, as were my wife & I. Strangely enough I'm not sure I would surf there these days, yet surf fairly regularly in SW WA. It's such a psychological game. Just gotta hope its not your time....

Well I've read a book called sharks teeth by Susan Casey, it's about the farralone islands where sharks come from thousands of kms a2ay to feed on elephant seals n other types. They had a shark research centre on there n the fuckers would sit in a light house n spot sharks. Then they would go out in a boat n tow a fish shaped surfboard behind the boat and document the attacking of the surfboard they reckon a fish shaped got attacked more than other shapes . Fucking retards then these sharks would swim off around the world with that memory. The dumb thing about it was the guys doing it were surfers. Some of the whites would hunt in packs n have a hierarchy. Amazing book but fucking retarded idea!
I just thought it was worth sharing.
Yep in WA when surfing it's on ur mind constantly. I go over east all the time n I didn't worry now it'll be on my mind there.
Feelings go out to all the families that have suffered from losses.

Jeez, you've written that well, Stu.

You have articulated, very well, what it was like growing up as a SA Surfer. I know the Swellnet team has a soft spot for SA, too. As much as I loved surfing SA, I haven't looked back once since making the bolt like Barry in 2002.

Yes, I miss the sunset's at Cactus, the sprint's to Yorkes and the (miraculous when they did come) glassy little swell's on the Mid. I don't miss the fear. Not one iota. I left following a well-documented attack a little too close to home in 2000.

Despite the change in where we are seeing shark activity I just don't experience that instilled, ingrained and conscious fear of wondering what's beneath you when in SA. I'm not too sure if it was the smell of the water, the change in the salinity or the obvious lack of people in the water. But, surfing in SA (& WA for that matter) is still a different psyche for me.

Stu > suggested edit "a swimmer - Ken Crew - was killed at Cottesloe, Western etc"

Stu > as a matter of respect, if we can collectively identify and add in the 12 names in this sentence: "There's since been twelve more fatalities on the stretch of coast between Perth and Esperance, more than double that of South Australia, and, unnervingly, seven of them were surfers. "

RR

So whens that wave pool going be finished ?

Note to Stu:

Sure you've got the Quint (Robert Shaw) reference entirely correct? Not thinking of Hooper (Richard Dreyfuss) the marine biologist that goes down in the cage? Or Brody (Roy Scheider) the copper who's in the sequel?

The Streaky shark on the wall of the pub and replica at the servo:

https://apnews.com/1a1506a0c4c32467cbc516c9e58c8671

In that vein, plenty of swirling stories post those attacks.

Vale.

Actually, come to think of it...pretty ordinary title. No sub-editor to blame.

Hunting grounds? Really? We're being hunted?

Or they are??

Yes Facto, I too was confused by the Quint reference. Did they film another ending where he survived and then left it 'on the cutting room floor'?
Shaw was epic in Jaws, I think he got the Oscar for his role. The part was originally cast with Oliver Reed playing Quint but he refused to fly at the time, so Shaw got the role. The retelling of the Indianapolis sinking by Shaw in the scene just before the shark attacks the boat is a highlight of his performance.

Humans always look for patterns, so when we look at shark attacks there is a tendency to assume that because we see groupings they are not random, but random does not mean equally spaced. A good analogy might be cancer clusters. If a group of similar cancers occur in the same area over a short time period the assumption tends to be that there must be an environmental trigger; radiation, pollution, whatever. Very often though the trigger does not exist, the cancers are just part of a random distribution. We do not have enough data on shark attacks to be certain of anything but I think they are probably more random than this article suggests.

I think the more data that is gathered, especially on the north coast where we have now excellent data gathering from the Smart Drum lines, the less these events are completely stochastic BB.

FR I'm not suggesting they are completely random, only that randomness plays a bigger role in where and when they occur than the article suggests.

This is a really good article, thanks Stu.
No idea if this could correlate to the drop in attack numbers in South oz however the fur seal population has boomed in the last decade.
"In 2013 .... state population was estimated at over 85,000 animals.[22] In 2015, Dr Brad Page told the ABC that the population had reached 100,000 animals. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_culling_in_South_Australia
I also recall chatting to a mate in Pt Lincoln who's a fisho and he was saying something about a particular form of netting that had been banned. I can't remember the specifics, but he was saying that less seals were getting caught as bi catch hence another reason their numbers were up.
Not sure if it means more of their preferred food source in the water means less attacks on surfers, and i'm semi sceptical it is that,( i would have thought it could contribute to more encounters) however could be a factor.

Thanks for the jinxing Stu,

Have thought about this one a bit over the years,
Few years after the tragic events of 2000, I moved to the Eyre Peninsula, was told I was crazy.
Many mates spread their wings too & moved to Margs or Goldie/NthNSW to ‘safer’ pastures... I sometimes wonder if they would have felt safer back on the mid?
The EP has always been spooky, always will be, some days I’ll happily swim out to Blacks, other days I get the hebie-gebies & don’t want to put my big toe in the water.
The fear is real, the other night I was watching ‘Soul Surfer’ with my daughters, one in each arm, the shark scene had me in tears (I cant ever remember crying in any movie before),
It hit such a nerve, as they are young & I am teaching them to surf.
But what do you do?
Not teach them?
Give up yourself?
I’m not educated enough to come up with any answers or solutions,
So I guess it business as usual...

Nicely written.

You have highlighted well why i have been unable to understand all the eastcoasters fear of great whites, to a point..

As a native south australian i've learnt to be comfortable surfing solo on all our coast lines.

25 years of wave riding, never seen one.

I also fly in airplanes over oceans a fair bit and everytime i do, it reminds me just how vast a body of water it is, volume and area.

The odds of a shark crossing paths with me in their sea while im out there, is just ridiculously incalculable.

I have too much good karma for that to happen!

And everyones gonna die, so if its via a shark in the ocean, so be it.

25 years in the water and ive only felt sketched out half a dozen times.

Im not gonna let the minascule chance of an encounter stop me from scoring empty waves.

The odds of encountering cruising juvey/sub-adult whites who like to patrol the surf line is far from ridiculously incalculable here Fire.

In fact, it's simply a function of how much time you spend in the water.

Ignorance is no longer bliss.

I'm not even sure fear is the right word.

It's more a reasonable apprehension and a having in mind a plan for what to do when you see that shape appear.

As Stu's touched on, growing up with the attacks/deaths and always knowing this was part of the experience in South Australia and goes with the territory, over east, it's never bothered me surfing until I can't see, having moonlit sessions or paddling out in the dark. I even push my luck back home still but am always super alert to any tiny ripple or movement if doing so.

I hardly saw any sharks that I remember back in SA, but over here I've seen numerous though not to any major size. Up north it's now more in my mind than when I do trips back to SA which I guess is saying something.

Huge respect to the many around Australia who have found themselves on the frontline & paddled towards the danger of an attacking shark to help a friend or stranger,
These people deserve a The Cross of Valour in my opinion

At the risk of putting the mozz on us down here, why the hell is Vic so devoid of shark interactions?
I know it’s a question without an answer but it intrigues me

when a GWS attacks a surfer and successfully gets a meal, won't it learn that its easy prey and repeat that behaviour?...3 incidents and interactions with around 4metre or so GWS at Cabarita(attacking the foil boarder), Pottsville and Burleigh within 24 hours(Dorsal Facebook sites) around Sept 16th..whats to say it wasn't the same shark involved in this and some of the other tragic incidents at Greenmount, Wooli and Kingscliff as the same GWS cruised up and down the coast following whales or something else this Winter/Spring. There is obviously heaps of tagged GWS pinging the smart buoys up and down the north coast everyday this time of year, so the vast majority of them are in or near surfers but aren't involved in attacks yet capable of the same outcome.. Obviously difficult to prove either way but makes me wonder.

At this point, we're all pretty confident that none of the shark deterrents available work on big sharks right?

Maybe that's where the money should be invested? Surely if we can come up with a vaccine for a brand new virus (hopefully) within a few months, the right resources can get us an effective shark repellant...

Supply and demand Peabo. We surfers are literally only a tiny drop in the ocean to politicians and money people.
Common opinion is that nothing really works on big sharks such as Great whites, Tigers, big bulls etc. If you're interested maybe go onto YouTube and search "free swimming with monster (20ft?) great white shark", to put things into perspective.
Animal instinct dictates that if they are hungry, and if we're in their vicinity, we are gonners. If they're not hungry then they don't care. Or if you're a shark, same species, and of the opposite gender then you will also get significant attention.
Sharks "feel" with their teeth and nudging, so many "attacks" are simply investigations that our fragile skin (and wetsuits) cannot withstand.
If you're in Victoria perhaps contact Chairman Dan Andrews after this covid-19 fear campaign is all over and ask him for some money for a good cause...Ha, ha, dreaming.
God Bless and protect you too

Stu, I think the west coast of SA could be the shark shield capital of the world. A mate (ex-Elliston, now McLaren Vale) said last time he was over there everyone in the water was wearing one. Maybe that’s the reason why SA has had so few fatalities over the last 20 years?
(I have nothing to do with any shark repellent company by the way)

Good summary, corrected some misperceptions I had about shark attack patterns in SA. Amazing that Northern NSW is now the fatal attack capital of Australia, at least in short-term numbers (sharks don’t respect borders so I count Greenmount) Can’t believe some of the sketchy solo surfs I chose to have in this, the triple fatality winter. Never again, sadly.

Theres been a few interactions in VIC west coast of late that i am aware of mainly just fly bys or getting into a seal where surfers can see it which is enough to cause a mass exit to shore ...and one pretty full on one just east of port cambell where a big white harassed a bloke for a long time 10 minutes or more he was fending it of with his board and trying not to paddle knowing if he bolted it would go him ..a set came just in time and made to the beach in 2 waves....pretty full on story ......i think a lot more interactions happen than we hear off in other states but NSW seems to be hot spot for 2 to 3 mtr agressive ones ...lets just hope it settles down when the whales are gone ..

I don’t think the whales leaving has much bearing on likelihood of attack. Apparently the Whites lag the whales on the return journey south. Seems like the sharks do what they like , but I was told by someone with as much insight as anyone into shark behaviour that the period with the least ( tracked ) whites in Nth NSW is from Late February - Early May .

No guarantees in this world though.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/fanning-s-emotional-advice-to-urunga-surfer...

Not many people have a healthier respect for sharks than I do . Sometimes it feels like borderline galeophobia . I’ve thought long and hard about it and I honestly believe it had something to do with my Mother filling in a few hours one day by taking me to see Jaws when I was very young - it was rated PG if you can believe it. I reckon this was then compounded soon after when we took a tour of Universal Studios in America and the huge mechanical shark used to make the same movie leapt out of the water right next to me .

In a nice twist of irony I later discovered one of my greatest passions required me to spend time in the watery habitat of one of my greatest fears. What can you do ?

Suck it up and go surfing is what you can do.

Culls work. There is no surer way to prevent death by White shark than by killing every White shark on Earth . And I don’t really even give much credence to the catastrophic environmental collapse we’d supposedly see if every single White shark was eradicated. They were meant to be critically endangered and the environment didn’t so much as falter because of it .

But I don’t imagine even the loudest advocate for a cull is calling for that extreme measure. So exactly how many sharks are we talking when people call for a cull ? A quarter of all sharks ? Half ? Most of the Whites ?

Fuck that.

If we were at least going to eat the Whites then I’d see a tiny bit of sense in the plan or at least a tad less hypocrisy. Christ knows we eat everything else to the brink of existence. But there is no way on Earth I’d consider knocking off animals just for the fact that they may interrupt with my surfing schedule.

That’s the weakest, lamest and most spineless suggestion I’ve ever heard.

People say we should follow the crocodile example and cull around metro areas - cause that’s where the most selfish, fear driven decisions seem to be made - but they don’t ever acknowledge that you still would never swim in Darwin Harbour even though they cull every problem animal. Because there is and always will be an element of danger when you allow any of these animals to live.

Get used to it . If White numbers are increasing then learn to accept it . Get some balls or ovaries and go surfing. If you start to freak out then go back to shore. People will die and I may be one of them . I’m probably more scared than you are but I’ve realised it’s a part of life and it’s something we just have to deal with and no shark should die because I’m afraid....that’s some cowardly shit.

it's a bit bigger than your feels mate.

I'm not that afraid, but I'm not that keen when I hear the westpac chopper go over and think it's my mates kids who've been chomped.

fact is, the recovery plan is designed to increase the number of white sharks, and the chief habitat for those whites is the coast of NSW.

this coast is a heavily populated one with an established ocean using culture.

That makes it different to crocs, where fukall people live.

Compromise solutions for co-existence will need to be found, but "get used to it" won't cut the mustard.
Nor will kill 'em all let god sort 'em out.

Strong words there Dude, give it a few more years and well see if you have changed your view......ive got no answer but i still find it incomprehensible to protect the apex predator without thinking of the consequences first....cart before the horse...

How is it bigger than my feels ? You think I’m living on another planet from yourself ?

You’re scared . That’s it and that’s all.

Exactly how many sharks are you proposing we kill so you can go play splash- splash ?

Put a number on it .

This is the kind of behaviour that has the national parks condoning off every cliff edge or drop off. The fuckers have even started spraying pink paint on tree roots which cross walking tracks so people who want the Earth to be made user friendly don’t have to take a single risk when they step outside their door into the scary world.

Cheers for that link Blowin. What a harrowing experience that bloke had. Yet another example of how unlucky you’ve got to be to be attacked in the first place but then how lucky you've got to be to survive.

Has anyone else considered the possible effects of the 400 odd whales that just perished in Tasmania? I am no marine expert but wouldn't this dramatically reduce the amount of food available to sharks? Apparently there around 200,000 in the eastern pacific ocean in total, so not a huge drop in numbers overall, but surely it could have a local effect? Last time it happened was in WA in 1996 (320 Whales). Can we cross reference any data from that period?

I don’t want to bring this up because I’m opposed to it, but shark cage diving...

When did it start?

I’ve always thought that teasing, feeding & changing the behaviour of the greatest apex predator to be a selfish & greedy (you can probably whack a few more words in there but I don’t believe scientific research belongs).

But I could be wrong...
Maybe every time a white goes to bight a human out there & gets a mouthful of cage Is a good thing... I doubt, it but you never know?

P.S I m still anti cage diving, not that I’ve done anything about it.

These current3 shark related threads are just turning into a clusterfuck

Dudesweet do you think your feelings would be the same if you lived on the Nth Coast NSW and had a 10 year old son or daughter who was a frothing grom and keen to be in the water 24/7?
Tell them to harden up and don’t be a pussy?

I don’t know what the answer is but if I was in the situation I just mentioned I don’t think I could just let em surf and worry the whole time that it would be the last time I see them alive.
It’s a tough one. I won’t even step on a bull-ant or spray a spider in the house, I hate killing animals because they’re “in the way” but fuck I’d be worried up there.

Simba, I’ve told you about my very strong aversion to death by shark attack but I still surf. I’ve surfed and speared Cocos Keeling , Abrolhos , Murion , Dirk Hartog , Frazer , GBR , Lord Howe and all manner of other islands through the Pilbara and even a couple in the Kimberly. Solo surfed Exmouth bombie , Bluff in the inky black of pre dawn , Tombiestones on my own as hectares of bait got very visibly smashed by sharks only metres away as well as all kinds of beaches , rivermouths and reefs all along the south coast of WA . Surfed SA and Tassie and all the while carrying the fear of sharks over my enjoyment of it .

Then come to Nth NSW and crew are acting like they’re the first people to ever be confronted with the threat of shark attack. The only difference here is that people thought they were in a safe little bubble exempt from the harsh reality of nature . I understand people are scared but it’s something they’ve got to work out on their own like people have been doing elsewhere for decades. Don’t take your insecurities out on the sharks.

I’m all for non- lethal deterrents but I think It’s very , very strange to hear committed ocean lovers call for any of the remaining animals left in our wild oceans to be destroyed for any reason besides sustenance.

Goofy....mate , I’d be shitting myself but what can you do ? As with anything in this life you take risks .

A few random notes
Not many Sightings in vicco on dorsal .....not much human movement allowed here, not as many people at coastal locations..
Whale carcasses washed ashore is a common denominator for increased GWS activity.
I read in the SN comments years ago that most attacks at a certain time happened in water temperatures of 19 degrees C.
Noting recently that its possible that possibly orcas have evicted GWS from certain feeding locations, so maybe thats a part of natural change.
Possibly most GWS entering Westernport Bay, well fed from a pit stop at Seal Rocks.
If the orcas move in at Seal Rocks, localised coastline might become a hot spot!
Stay alert, and keep reading Dorsal Tracker.

I truely believe that whites know we aren’t good food, otherwise we would be losing someone everyday of the week.
I believe the problem on the east coast is that they are juvenile sharks, teenagers if you will, working out what’s what & pushing boundaries, big enough now to take on marine mammals.
This problem has been amplified by shark numbers returning to pre whitefellow numbers on top of an ecosystem that is out of balance & been/being overfished.

6 shark related articles in just over 2 weeks on swellnet is probably enough. Again just like myself and others with dorsal, I can chose not to read.

Anthony Hayes was also attacked by a GWS in February of that year surfing at Cunns a couple of hundred metres where Cameron was attacked. If not for his mate, that would have been another fatality in that year. With all of the shark attacks on the East Coast, would love to know of the value of any of the proposed shark repellent products on the market.

Might get howled down for this... but it has occurred to me that some locals may post fake dorsal app reports to keep people away. I know this would be a complete d**k act, but it's possible, or is there some feature in the app to guard against this?

A couple of Points.

Recently watched a documentary called Sonic Sea.

Basically, the movie explains how sound is essential to the survival and prosperity of marine life and how man-made ocean noise is threatening this fragile ecosystem.

Frankly, It blew me away, as I didn't realize for example, how a drilling test in the Pacific Ocean over near California can be heard clearly all the way over in the Atlantic. or how the whales beaching themselves is due to massive industrial level noise through shipping or other dangerous noise level earworms, etc.

I suspect that its the reason the sharks, whales, and other cetaceans have changed fishing and location patterns.

For example, SA has several active O&G drilling sites still in operation. They use undersea air hammers to drill new test wells. These undersea air hammers produce an undersea sound if measured in decibels on land would cause industrial deafness.

This may be why the SA whales and large sharks move on and then return.

The other interesting point of the documentary was around the killer whales and the way their pods communicated. There is a researcher featured in the film who talks about his recordings of the killer whales in hunting mode.

It made me wonder if the undersea playing of killer whale in high-density White Shark areas may cause them to leave the area.

Anyway. Have a great day.

There have been several studies into the impacts of Orcas on Whites and how this can effect their movements and behaviour - in short being that whites shit themselves and take off as soon as they appear
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-39356-2
It may sound a bit whack and far fetched at this point, but there could be a role for marine scientists to investigate the role of Orcas in displacing white numbers in localised areas such as Ballina etc., through mimicking echolocation or who knows - maybe blow up Orca pool animals might do the trick!

There’s been some interesting research done on the migratory patterns of GWS. There were ones tagged in Dunedin that ended up in Tonga only a matter of weeks later.

More people + More sharks= You know what happens next ???

Theres a lot of coast without beacons to pick up tagged sharks in VIC and SA dont think ive ever seen one there ....theres one at nearly every beach in NSW ...one shark could easily trigger multiple areas ..

Shaun way short of every beach mate like 21 all up and 4 of those byron ballina area.......

also this is worth a read
https://magicseaweed.com/news/shark-attack-what-to-do-in-surfings-most-h...

I wonder if the tags register as a particular individual or just a tagged GWS ...anybody know ??

https://www.sharksmart.nsw.gov.au/shark-activity

What happened to all the shark mitigation strategies, such as shark shield and those decals that Tom Carroll had on the bottom of his board. Does anyone use these up Ballina way etc. would they stop a charging Shark attack I heard they were testing at the Neptune islands a few years ago.

I haven’t heard nor seen any shark shield products in recent years. Just not on my radar where I live. Just wondered if anyone uses them and what they think of the products? Would people be tempted to use them in the light of what is now occurring on the East Coast?

I was at South Point 2010 when Nick Edwards was attacked. Didnt realise at the time but a seal was being pursued and swam under us and hung near the rocks using us as a human shield. Nick was bitten and received fatal wounds.
Sometimes our aquatic pastime is accidentally interfering with these creatures need to eat their normal prey. Maybe we look like competition - we do take a lot of the resources normally available.
Agree we are not preferred food - rarely consumed, but a bite is enough
Agree with DSDS, no culling
If you fear for your kids lives, buy them a skateboard and keep them out of the ocean

From Dorsal, report at Palm Beach (QLD) this afternoon:

“Public Report: I was boogey boarding in the shorey having a hell of a time when a large shark bumped my footy. No harm done. The shark was reported to be up to 4m and due to the size believed to be a white shark.“

Far out. This could’ve ended badly... Presumably viewers from high rise balconies were able to provide details on the size.

"How is it bigger than my feels ? You think I’m living on another planet from yourself ?

You’re scared . That’s it and that’s all.

Exactly how many sharks are you proposing we kill so you can go play splash- splash ?

Put a number on it ."

Couple of things, and I don't want to get into any emotional polarised argument.
Just want to put a couple of things forwards.

This kind of polarised argument: either we get used to it and learn to live with increased attacks with grace (or whatever the phrase was) or we cull 'em all is not only not helpful; it describes a kind of fantasy land. where binary options are all we have.

As I've said repeatedly in these shark threads, shark management has been happening in NSW since '37. Nets, lethal.
Thats a cull.
Been happening for almost a century.

So we are almost a century into shark management in NSW.

Shark control program in QLD has been happening since '62.
Lethal, sharks killed. Thats another cull.
Over a half a century.

So this idea that managing sharks is somehow some kind of "cowardly shit" , that does describe a planet that I don't live on.

In 2015 I sat in a meeting with 200 of my fellow surfers and listened to speaker after speaker from all kind of oceanic experience detail how the shark situation had changed up here. People wanted something done, and something was done.

These are my people, in my community. That was not "cowardly shit". Thats the way the state govt and DPI scientists attempted to frame it at the time but as a result of that meeting and the intense pressure it placed on local pollies to act the State Govt instituted the tagging program, which then became the Smart Drum line array.

Nets were trialled.

Shark management has been incredibly effective, in NSW, in QLD. So yes, the partial culls do work.

The question is not, do we cull sharks.

We already do that and have been for decades.

The question is, is it working?
Is it right for all areas?- might be right for Lennox to Evans, might not be right for South West Rocks for eg.
Do we need to tweak it?

etc etc etc.

We're well past this being about individual feels.

For the record though, I never saw Jaws, have no particular fear of sharks. Seen tens of thousands in a life devoted to the ocean, including stints on trawlers, wet-liners, diving, fishing , surfing etc etc.

I've been bumped several times, knocked off boards, buzzed by whites. It's not a pant-shitting experience for me going surfing. I keep my eyes open and if things feel weird I go in.

I've also seen the toll these attacks take on people. I don't see much grace in people turning grey on the beach while a handful of traumatised first responders wonder what the fuck happens now.

If the risk of that can be reduced, and it can be, and if ways can be found to do that non-lethally and without harming the ecosystem then I'm for it.
If it comes down to a few juvey or sub-adult white sharks getting shafted, then so be it too.

That was actually the proposal put to me by one of Byron Bays most famous greenies out the back at the Point. I won't mention his name but he thought we should do a bit of old school fishing and teach them to avoid inshore habitats.

There are a range of views, and I do respect that.

Also for the record though, I think the Smart Drum line program is the best available compromise we have at the moment, and is giving us invaluable real-time data about the spatio-temporal distribution of white sharks in this area.

I'm looking into shark deterrent devices.

'South Australia has become a safe place to surf'

Really? Again...

https://www.smh.com.au/national/shark-attacks-surfer-in-south-australia-...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2628188/Stunned-surfer-survives...

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/shark-attacks-surfer...

There are still shitloads of incidents. And, the ab divers are getting buzzed more and more, but its not only them who have genuine concerns, so do plenty of surfers that I know, who still deal with it the best that they can.

It’s so easy why shark attacks have jumped..... whale herds have increased. And Whale migration can sustain a larger gws population, northern nsw is the furthest point east and closest to the east coast current. The oceans Super healthy.....I will never wish a shark attack on anyone but we’re only doing a recreational sport.... it’s not do or die...whilst whales and sharks on the east coast is the natural way... leave them to be

lots of fish migrating along the NSW coast during winter/spring.

doubt the juvey/sub-adults in the surf zone are whale eaters.

but no doubt adult whites are ready to chow down on calves or sick or dead adult whales.
\
Thought I might have seen Orcas off the Point yesterday.

they were here this time last year.
https://www.outoftheblueadventures.com/killer-whales-ballina/

It may have been mentioned in the comments already, but Captain Quint died in the storyline of the book and the movie. The marine biologist (I’ve forgotten his name) died in the book but survived in the movie. The police chief survived in both..

The possible culprits should be culled. Simple, if a repeat alert over a day or a week or still there after an attack. Might send a message to the juveniles and subsequent offspring. That’s a cull but specific.

It’s a good thing Orcas don’t prey on Humans. Those things are the real bosses of the ocean. They kill great whites for fun. Had a big one breach suddenly about 20mtrs away from me last year. Scared the living crap out of me. It could have swallowed me whole if it had wanted to. Interestingly enough there were some Hectors Dolphins swimming round us that disappeared about a minute before the Orca arrived. I guess Orca eat dolphins.

...also it’s a good thing sharks can’t chase you up the beach like Sea Lions. Had one bull chase me out of the water, up the beach, then way up the track to were my mate’s tent was. I left him there Haha! My mate was having a nap later on and reckoned the Sea Lion was trying to get into his tent. Those fuckers weigh up to 500kg so it must have been somewhat disconcerting. Anyway, he stayed there for an hour or two then finally decided to go back into the water to harass someone else.

remind me to stay tf away from u around the ocean spuddups :)

I wonder if SA has since had attacks that no one knows about, due to a remote location and being gobbled whole. Victim on the missing person board at the whollopers.

Surfer got bitten down near Port Lincon when I was down there 2015 or 16 , non fatal from memory , also lots incidents and encounters on EP since then. Perhaps just less media hype than encounters in other locations? This article is misrepresenting the situation but no point letting the truth get in the way of a good story is there? The Swellnet team chasing some SA Tourism dollars perhaps ? ha ha

I remember when whites were made a protected pieces. At the time they admitted there wasn't even details on how many existed! Talking to fishos and surfers over recent years, there are many more around now. Time to seriously talk about a cull.

Who can forget this classic?

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/surfers-survive-atta...

If you know where they were surfing, well, Jeezus...

I bet a few beers went down.

Well, probably not.

I think "the fat kid from hey dad" is a teetotaller these days so maybe just extra push ups and a kale smoothie to celebrate life that night?

Yeh facto, and the spot that the kids learn to surf is just opposite! Years ago some kite boarders came over and were flying in and out there for days, falling off, flopping around, etc, wild. In tiny, glassy, summer swells the neutron brothers and grom mates would surf a different little Aframe, floating around out there all day. The highway to hell.

The home and away mystery... stupe’s the dude blowie dundee dude for sure...

And this shot in the article... that boulevard vacuum, gut suck, tricep side pose... sans spray tan... again...

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2628188...

Hey fellas, old young mate is BIT. That's the mail.

Let the old new good times roll.

He's a good egg.

Cheers!

Burp!

Yeh he’s still charging too, but they have to come in.. the injarees get ‘em... I have mercy... well... eventually... it’s always fun and games!

Me & da Gull might be visitors slash clients sooner rather than later!

Haha... by all means please, I’ve got the red carpet ready!

And it’s a nice looking stick for sure facto, the zebra. However, now I know that you won’t believe me, but have you ever thought of sawing it in half? Because, and again, I know that you won’t believe me, but there’s a whole new market for undersized ‘storms’!!!??? Gronk dudes are ordering miniature ‘storms in a teacup’ so to speak, adding their own ‘twist’ to them... real desert dundee doggers, to ride the real biggies, while rescuing other dudes and shite... there’s always a back story...

And amazingly they’re selling like hot cakes, for sale all over the internet... again and again and again and again and again... did I say again... in a nutshell???!!

Micky B!
You’ve lasted a week without getting banned again. Well done!

There’s a ‘backstory’ foot... I’m still working on it but... it’s comin’... again...

And please tell me that your ‘storm’ is bigger than 5’ 6”... not like them dudes with the little ones... the infamous ebay and gumtree ‘deserted storms’...

DS 5'6".......this is going downhill fast Craig

Sitting here with a beer, looking out at exactly where Monkey was attacked maybe a K away,
they all dealt with it well, or at least the best they could, Monkey especially.

Mick mentioned the kiddies wave... it’s real close, but somehow I feel there is a fence there... which could be mind over matter. I paddle 3/4 of the way out there all the time to the kiddie wave, been out there more in the last year than the real waves on the coast... like I said, mind over matter...
still didn’t join the crew out at Blacks today

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

From: Eric Perez
Date: 26 September 2020 at 12:21:59 pm AEST
Subject: QSIA Members Update #216, 26 Sept 2020

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QSIA News Post

The GULL provides another written piece of common sense around the management of sharks.

Early in June, Peter Hannam, environment editor for the Sydney Morning Herald (and The Age in Melbourne) wrote an article about results of research into great white sharks.

He began: “Great white sharks are picky eaters, altering their diet to meet changing needs as they grow. Mammals are of little interest until the animals mature and bites on humans are likely to be mistakes.”

I thought at the time this was a fairly anthropomorphic thing to say, attributing to a shark the human quality of being able to make a “mistake”. What? The shark did not mean to bite the person involved? Clearly, it did. Or did the shark make the “mistake” of thinking the person was one of its usual food items. If so, does that matter, given the fact a great white bite can be so catastrophic? It seemed a facile and intellectually shallow statement.

Yet, attributing bites on humans to a mistake on the part of the shark was apparently so important it was elevated to the second sentence in a lengthy article. The heading on the article read: “Study shows surprising diet of sharks with little interest in mammals”.

He quoted a researcher as saying “From about 2.5 metres (in length), they (great white sharks) start to include marine mammals” in their diet (before then eating mostly fish). “It’s definitely not the case of sharks targeting humans [as] what it might have been portrayed – it’s usually a case of mistaken identity.”

Though the interview with the researcher was conducted before the event, Peter Hannam wrote this article the day after a 60-year-old surfboard rider was killed by a great white shark near Kingscliff in northern New South Wales on Sunday, June 7.

On July 4, less than a month after Peter Hannam’s SMH article, a shark fatally bit a spear fisherman off Indian Head on Fraser Island.

On July 11, five weeks after the SMH article, a great white fatally bit a young surfer off Wilson’s Headland near Wooli in northern New South Wales.

On July 17, less than six weeks after the SMH article, a great white leapt from the water to pull a 10-year-old boy off a boat in northern Tasmania (though he escaped serious injury when his father jumped into the water after him and scared the shark off).

On July 31, at Bunker Bay in south-west WA, a great white attacked a surfer, ripping his leg but kept at bay long enough for the surfer to be rescued by other riders.

On August 15, a great white attacked a woman surfing at Shelly Beach, near Port Macquarie. Her husband paddled over and punched the shark till it let go.

Of course, another fatal attack on a surfer by a great white occurred in fairly shallow water off Greenmount Headland on the Gold Coast on September 8.

That is four fatal attacks and two life-threatening attacks in three months, added to fatal attacks on a diver off Esperance in WA in January (by a great white) and a swimmer at North-West Island off Gladstone in April.

So far this year, there have been 16 unprovoked shark attacks in Australia, leaving six people dead and five injured. All mistakes?

Everyone in Queensland clearly remembers the spate of shark attacks on people swimming from yachts in idyllic Cid Harbour in the Whitsundays in 2018: an initially unreported attack on September 10, after which the man involved got himself to hospital; an attack on September 19 on a 46-year-old woman who was lucky to survive; an attack on September 20 on a 12-year-old girl who lost a leg; and an attack on November 5 on a 33-year-old medical doctor who died.

In October 2019, in nearby Hook Passage, two British snorkellers were attacked, one losing a foot.

It is ludicrous to argue these sharks are biting people because of “mistaken identity”. Any empirical evidence for that assertion? No, not likely.

Are great whites mistaking surfers for seals in northern New South Wales, the Gold Coast or Fraser Island? Hardly. Do sharks think swimmers and snorkellers in the crystal-clear waters of the Whitsundays are big fish? Hardly credible.

Let’s just agree that sharks are opportunistic feeders: if hungry, they will feed on any manageable form of prey, wherever and whenever they come across it. That might be a fish or a dolphin or a dead whale or a human.

Another argument in defence of sharks is that their bites are often tentative or stimulated by curiosity and, once they realise they’ve made a “mistake” and bitten something that is not a usual prey item, they will swim away.

Without going into too much detail about such a recent tragedy, surfers who witnessed the Greenmount attack said there was virtually no flesh remaining on the surfer’s leg between hip and knee. Hardly a tentative bite.

And multiple deaths or injuries suggest a motive at play other than curiosity or mistaken identity.

At Kirra on the Gold Coast on 27 October 1937, three young men were body surfing at the back of the beach break when two were killed by a shark within moments of each other. Later, a 3.6-metre, 850-kg female tiger shark was caught with human remains in its stomach.

On the night of 13 March 1977, two men clinging to the outside of an icebox after their launch had been run down and sunk by a freighter in Moreton Bay were taken by a shark. A third man, inside the icebox at the time, survived.

In July 1983, three crew members from a sunken trawler were floating on a surfboard, pieces of foam and a life-ring near Lodestone Reef, off Townsville, when two were taken by a large tiger shark (or sharks).

In early November 1988, a 62-year-old man and his two sons, 33 and 17, were fishing in a motor cruiser when it sank in rough seas off North Keppel Island in Central Queensland. They had a four-metre dinghy but took it in turns to hang off the side, two at a time, because it was being swamped when all three were in it.

The father and his 17-year-old son were both taken by a tiger shark (or sharks) and a rescue helicopter crew saw two sharks apparently trying to capsize the dinghy when they came in to winch the survivor to safety.

The world’s worst recorded attack was on survivors of the World War 2 heavy cruiser USS Indianapolis. It was torpedoed in the Pacific, near Guam, on 29 July 1945, sinking in 12 minutes. An estimated 900 of its 1,196 crew got into the water but most of them with just life-jackets to keep them afloat. Four to five days later, 317 were rescued, after many drowned but some men – estimated by survivors as somewhere between “dozens and 150” – were killed by sharks, mostly oceanic whitetips.

None of those multiple-victim attacks was a case of mistaken identity, any more than attacks in the surf zone are likely to be. Just opportunistic.

And shark numbers are increasing, in the surf zone and elsewhere.

In the 2020/2 edition of Queensland Seafood, we reported New South Wales beach fishermen are seeing increasing numbers of juvenile great whites in the surf zone.

And in just four days in early July, contractors tagged and released 14 great whites hooked on “smart” drumlines along just 40km of coast between Lennox Head and Evans Head (south of Byron Bay). That’s four days, 14 sharks, just 40km of coastline.

In four years of trials between Lennox and Evans Head that ended in July, researchers caught, tagged and moved further out to sea more than 400 target sharks (whites, tigers and bulls). Of those, 333 were great whites.

The Federal Government’s Department of Agriculture, Water & Environment – no, I kid you not, it’s the Department of AWE – has a national recovery plan in place for great whites, despite the fact they don’t know how many great whites there are in waters around Australia and don’t have any way of measuring whether that unknown number is increasing or decreasing.

Based on the fact more than 300 great whites have been tagged in a small area of the NSW North Coast, I would say the species is relatively abundant.

After the September 2018 Cid Harbour attacks, in less than a week three drumlines caught six sharks, five of them tiger sharks over two metres long. Cid Harbour is now a declared “No Swim” zone while experts study shark prevalence and behaviour in the area.

On reefs throughout North Queensland waters, both commercial and recreational fishermen complain about growing numbers of sharks stealing hooked fish on the way to the boat.

While researchers often want to focus on exotic shark species like scalloped hammerheads, the common species fishermen see regularly are increasing in numbers.

What is being done round the country to protect sharks clearly is working – but putting people at greater risk.

Peter Hannam’s concern seems to be that shark attacks will generate more lethal controls on sharks. He is particularly concerned about shark nets.

For example, he wrote in May 2018 that: “The utility of shark nets is again being challenged, with the north coast meshing trial snagging just two targeted sharks out of 143 animals caught in its second year. Separate data from State archives going back to 1950 also reveal almost 20,000 animals have been caught in shark nets, including in the 51 nets off the beaches of Sydney, Newcastle and Wollongong. Many of the creatures caught are now endangered, such as grey nurse sharks.”

In August 2019 he wrote an article that began: “Nets at popular NSW beaches were almost 20 times as likely to ensnare a non-targeted animal such as a turtle or dolphin than a large shark, with many of the trapped animals on the threatened species list, new data shows. The State’s Shark Meshing Program (SMP), which covers 51 beaches from Newcastle to Sydney and Wollongong, trapped 395 animals during the period between September 1, 2018 and April 30, 2019, according to the Department of Primary Industries. Of that total, just 23 of the animals were one of the targeted species: white, bull or tiger sharks. Twelve of those sharks were killed in the nets.”  In December 2019 he said, in a story headed “’We fear the very dramatic thing’ – Shark nets found to be ineffective” that: “Nets off NSW beaches trap 16 times more non-target species than the three dangerous sharks they are aimed at, with little measurable benefit in terms of improving human safety. These are among the findings of a study published on Wednesday in the People and Nature journal that examined the Shark Meshing Program, first introduced in 1937. The nets cover 51 beaches between Wollongong and Newcastle, including Sydney.”

And, on August 1 this year, in an article headed “ ‘Senseless’: Nets catch 480 animals including many protected species”, he began: “The number of animals caught in NSW’s shark nets jumped more than a fifth in the latest season, trapping more than 180 threatened or protected species.

The shark meshing program run by the Department of Primary Industries found 480 animals were caught in the 51 shark nets placed near popular beaches between Wollongong and Newcastle during the September to April netting period.

“That total was up from the 395 caught during the previous year, and was the largest catch since 2015-16, according to Lawrence Chlebeck, a marine biologist with Humane Society International*. Almost 60 per cent of the animals caught died in the nets, a slightly higher proportion than in previous years

“Coastal beaches have had shark nets since the 1930s, targeting white, bull and tiger sharks that are considered a threat to humans. Of the 480 animals trapped last season, only 50 were targeted sharks, mostly whites.”

Fifty sharks, most of them great whites – that’s interesting.

The bottom line is I happen to believe human life is more precious than fish life.

I also believe that, unless communities in northern New South Wales and southern Queensland are prepared to lose surfers, divers or swimmers every year – and see more tourist meccas declared “No Swim” zones – then something smarter has to be done about managing not just the sharks but also the risk they present.

Let’s pay attention to professional fishermen – people who are out on the water every working day of their life – when they talk about seeing more and more sharks in their usual fishing spots. And, when the inevitable, predictable attacks happen, let’s not dismiss them as “mistakes”.

* Humane Society International is the group that took successful court action last year to prevent lethal shark drumlines being set in waters of the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park. (The court action was funded by the US-based Shark Conservation Fund, sponsored in turn by the Rockefeller Philanthropy Advisors Inc).

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So much insightful info in one spot. I found this worth watching so just adding it. It's mostly on bull shark research in Sydney Harbour and their migration northwards in the winter months.

Agree a long winded way to say unprovoked attacks ...but some interesting figures related to netts there ...

..

[FACTCHECK]
Strongly advise to conduct own Shark Attack files & triple check...
Taronga Shark attack file!...is far from being current, reliable or accurate.

Taronga Shark File (vs) Qld news (2018-20) reported Attacks
2018 Zoo ~ 1 {r.i.p} + 3 injured (vs) Media ~ 1 {r.i.p} + 6 injured
2019 Zoo ~ 8 injured (vs) Media ~12 injured
2020 Zoo ~ 2 {r.i.p} + 3 Injured (vs) Media ~ 3 {r.i.p} + 3 injured

(Lists About 60-70%) That's hopeless recording by OZ renowned animal institute.
(Disclaimer! tbb has visited zoo.) No bearing on their very light Shark Table!

Real Headline : [ No end in sight for 2 year spate of monthly Qld Shark attacks ]
Doubt if Qld Newspapers are keen on running tbb's upfront pre Election shirtfront.
Goes without saying this is a record spate of Shark Attacks & should rightly be news!

Reminder on Shark Tags...(SLS NSW > Sharks are active at Dawn & Dusk?)
NSW Smart Drums only start 1 hour after Sunrise & are home 2 hrs before Dusk.
NSW report releasing Sharks out to sea (Photos & Vids only show shoreline releases)
Tags are Cat Bells for Prey + Dinner Bell for Orca (Sharks must alter behaviour)
Meaning tagged sharks live a robotic unnatural defensive desperate existence
Cat Bells don't represent natural predatory tracking. (VR4G is Neutered if you like)

Sure, we'll use the data but must factor new 24/7 Totally Wired lifestyle.(Buzz Buzz)
2025 FAQ's
Do tagged Sharks avoid Whales due to Orca wolf whistles? "Here...Pussy! Pussy!"
Can surfers use their Shark Shields to remote control Tagged Sharks to clear lineups?
Do android Sharks dream of downloading Shark Shield Surfers?
Is it true that tagged Sharks can hot seat Shark Shield Surfers?
file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/Sub47_att2%20(5).pdf

Point is few tally Shark Fatalities nor Crosscheck crosswired Shark tech.(Who cares?)
Who will win : Left wrist Magnetic powerband (vs) right wrist VR4G Power Band..
What if yer left Handed? Do you put the VR4G on the Left & Magnet on the Right
tbb thinks VR4G waves to the sky & Magnet gets immersed..(Busy Lifeguards?)
SLS NSW Jingle : "Wave yer Left hand in the air & dip yer right hand under there?"

WA / NSW : Now recommend using a "Personal Deterrent" to trigger Tagged sharks?

WA / NSW sharksmart mitigation only runs 8:00 am to 4:00 pm
Swim / Paddle /Surf Events operate in Public Bathing Reserves outside Tech hours.
Meaning Govt must offer (appropriate) a/h mitigation to insure beach events.
Peer industry recommended...Don't matter if it's shark shampoo! (About compliance)
Attack on Govt beach is covered by insurance if a/h care is only half bad.

Notice Qld Flags display Tide Times, Currents & Temp + Stinger warnings.
This is to prevent Spinal injury law suits..."Shallow Bank > Careful mate!"
Shark Shields are nothing more than sketches on Mr squiggle's Chalk Board!
Govt push shark shampoo to avoid a/h Sign [Keep out of Sharky Tourist surf spot]

If Shark Patrols were serious they'd begin at Dawn as they themselves prioritise.
Surfers / Swimmers want this. (Alas Drones are also blind folded at Dawn & Dusk )
It's by surrender that Sharkbanz are being pushed onto a/h surf & swim crews.

Govt will never ever patrol Local Surfer's Peak Shark Hours or big surf! (OHS issue!)
Apart from State Govt bankrolling $3m WSL Shark Park Action Play Sets!
Surfers need to pool resources to best timetable surf sessions around the sharks.

Swift, Silent, Deadly. Anywhere, Anytime, No Beach Out of Reach. Enough said.

ouch Mango....I think you have ended the thread mate...

“ Swift, Silent, Deadly. Anywhere, Anytime, No Beach Out of Reach. Enough said.”..

I’ve seen Mango Manny patrolling the Bounty, Sky Garden and Poppies 2 many a time, he’s pretty much just described his normal night out on the prowl.
Once Mango and I drank an English gentleman’s bottle of Bacardi that he said we could have shot out of. He of course fired up when he returned back to the table a bit later.. big mistake. Mango Mango took off his yellow lensed sunglasses (this is night time mind you) and stared at him like a Rottweiler would to a pussy cat. Enough said.

Remember the German Shepard you had at Dreamland Mango? What happened to him? He was a great pooch

Interesting article and comments.
I was surfing the mid in SA last summer with about 5 others out on a week day. The shark spotting plane hit the warning siren and circled us a number of times until we started heading in... very disconcerting but also strangely exciting. We paddled fast and watched shadows for some time afterwards but never saw a fin. That week there were multiple reported sitings of a large shark in that stretch.
There was a small / baby shark about 1m long hanging around that break in the shallows last summer too.
Down near Goolwa In SA last summer I clearly saw a shark thrashing a hundred metres or so out from the back where loads of birds were diving bombing. Silly but still went out.
Lots of visual activity last summer.
Often see a shark egg when walking the dog along the Middleton stretch.
Cute shark Story: I saw a baby hammerhead a few years back swimming down the face just in front and to the side of me... it really was a lovely sight. I hoped that Mum was not nearby.
Imagine all the sharks that we don’t see. Must be lots. Best not to think about it... or take up tennis.

Shark egg?......whites give birth to live young as i think most do except for port jackson which screw an 'egg' into the reef.

The population growth in these area over the last thirty year?

get a drone,watch your kids watch your mates,take turns, I wonder what it will be like in
10 years time...

Canadian researchers have just released a scientific paper describing the rebuild of white sharks on the east coast from New York north. Interesting read. The similarities to the Northern NSW/Southern Qld situation are many. Attached is the abstract from the following paper:

Inconspicuous, recovering, or northward shift: status and management of the white shark (Carcharodon carcharias) in Atlantic Canada

G. Bastien, A. Barkley, J. Chappus, V. Heath, S. Popov, R. Smith, T. Tran, S. Currier, D.C. Fernandez, P. Okpara, V. Owen, B. Franks, R. Hueter, D.J. Madigan, C. Fischer, B. McBride, N.E. Hussey

Canadian Journal of Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences, 2020, 77:(10), 1666 - 1677, 10.1139/cjfas-2020-0055

Although white sharks (Carcharodon carcharias) have been considered rare in Atlantic Canada waters, recent sighting records indicate a potentially increasing presence. We combine historical to present sighting data with satellite telemetry tracks of large juvenile and adult white sharks tagged in US (n = 9) and Atlantic Canada waters (n = 17) to show seasonal white shark presence and distribution in Atlantic Canada, returns by individuals over multiple years, and high site fidelity to the region. Telemetry data indicate that white sharks are a more common and consistent occurrence in Canadian waters than previously thought, presenting two potential scenarios: (i) tagging technology is revealing white shark presence that was historically cryptic and (or) (ii) a northward range expansion of white sharks in the Northwest Atlantic, potentially due to climate change, population recovery, and (or) increasing pinniped prey. Given combined sighting and telemetry data indicate a current need for proactive management of white sharks in Atlantic Canada waters, we propose the basis for a management action plan, addressing conservation priorities, management goals, and research incentives while considering the potential for human–shark interactions.

BTW,

Would I be wrong in saying that this issue has had the the most amount of feedback/comment of all topics presented?

Well it's a bit like the argument for capital punishment. The naysayers might say that the death penalty does nothing to lower the crime rate. But the proponents have a handy response. Which is to point out that no one who has received the death penalty has ever committed another crime.

Fuk yeah Mick M1 ...got some attention alright ...not so long ago there was a lot of poeple saying there hasnt been an increase in sharks ...i think we are over that hurdle ......

I've lived on the north coast, nsw for most of my sixty years, the commentary that is taking place is extremely valuable in the solving of this issue. Please contribute as even the smallest details can be a stepping stone in a result beneficial to all concerned.

Sweet quotes from this dundee dude, blowin/dundee (aka stupes mmmaaayyyteee that stupe' swore ain't no mmmaaayyyteee... and even got infuriated at the mere suggestion... again)

'Tigers aren’t really stealth hunters'

Totally incorrect... no that's completely wrong, not true at all... again...

“Our tagged sharks just continued on their courses without attempting to predate on the alert individual even if they were right in front of them,” said Dr Andrzejaczek, a lead author on a research paper released today.

“We found the sharks were more likely to use stealth to sneak up on their prey.”

https://www.aims.gov.au/docs/media/latest-news/-/asset_publisher/EnA5gMc...

' I don’t think.'

Yes, on the money there... in this case yes, completely correct... again... in a nutshell...

take a look at green mount right now''
right there in the close proximity s u p -mals
oblivious on a hazy morning
nah nothing could go wrong?
is it really a shark problem
or a human hubris problem

A couple of perspectives from a SA surfer.There has been a massive explosion in the number of seals in sa over the last 20 years. Most of the colony's are offshore so the whites can feed without coming in close where the surfers are.
Also at this time of year we used to have a migration of snapper into the gulfs to breed. Overfishing has killed the snapper stock hence a 3 year ban in snapper fishing. The whites used to follow the snapper along the coast & up the gulfs into shallow water.
I think there are plenty around they just aren't coming across us

The 1985 attack on Shirley Durdin at Peake Bay S.A.
Poor woman only out snorkelling in 6ft of water for a feed of Scallops
A Game Fishing tournament was on in the Spencer Gulf at that time and boats had been Burleying the Waters for 2 Days
...Unbeknown to Shirley and Family ..Shirley was diving in tail end of a 2 day strong Burley Trail....From Eric Kotz 'The Jawsome Coast' Book

http://sharkattackfile.net/spreadsheets/pdf_directory/1985.03.03-Durdin.pdf

Good article, Stu.

The link between whites vacating parts of SA in potential response to Orca presence and increases in whites in other places is a matter worthy of further research, as are the complex interactions between species, predator-prey relationships and responses to changes in environmental forcing/conditions.

The more anecdotal evidence can inform the research, and the more the research can reach the lay-observer, the quicker everyone can start to really understand how it works.

we can be grateful this beast is no longer hunting
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-71387-y
check out Figure 2 - we humans would have been just a snack

17 footer tagged and released off Canada... "she was full of seals". Crikey!
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/giant-17ft-great-white-shar...

Dead whale on the beach at Casuarina 

A stupid game we use to play & a stupid theory I used to have:

Game: Monkey & I used to rate the evening surf at Blacks, give it a star rating while we were out there, we would then have to stay out till we saw that many stars...
So a one star night was over soon after sunset, but a 5 star night took a bit more nerve, a kind of game of chicken, but I can’t remember either of us going in too early, we loved making each other stay out.

Theory: I was bodysurfing Blacks a fair bit around the same time with a handplane, and had the theory (to get me though), what is a surfboard going to do anyway out there if a shark wants you? It’s just going to be a extra piece of crunch for the shark, but you are still going to be Fucked.

Anyway after Monkey got launched skyward, the game & the theory got ditched pretty bloody quick.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-09/shark-attack-in-esperance-wa-repo...

Hmm...sounds really bad from the report.

It's worse than the days reporting via abc.

Edit: posting without regard for the situation the reporter found herself in. By all reports sounding like a very emotional situation.

My apologies Emma. I hope you are doing OK.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-11/sharks-esperance-white-project-ta...

Surely time to at least get the GWS off the endangered species list. Keeping both sides of the fence happy. Isn't that what we are all about? Keeping both sides of the fence happy?

That doesn't mean a wipe out cull. That doesn't mean save the lot. But a balanced as can be reasonably controlled number count of this species of shark.

After all we control somewhat their balance of long distance tucker either releasing off the Tee (bay) , burying in the bunker (beach) dragging out into the rough (sea). Short change snacks on our table (plates).

The government doesn't want to see them from the carparks ( tourism, cafes).

Experience the coast line for what it is. ( long drops, flies and the world's longest golf course if you are crossing the south).

Where else do we suppose a shark is going to look for a gouging. Tuna farms? Cage diver tours? Oil exploring drilling rigs? Fishing trawlers? Bays not teeming with sting rays?

Just prolonging shark suffering i say.

If I were 30 foot long, travelled 2 thousand kays, I'd want to spend a week or 2 doing bugger all else but gouging on humpmaccas and eyeballing dolphins.

If we kill everything, maybe we can live forever?

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.sciencealert.com/what-s-the-deadlies...

If you support a cull of sharks, then you must support a cull of all animals that kill humans. If you don’t, then you’ve got an ego problem, why should only surfers be protected

Shoredump I think we are chipping away at killing everything, just not great whites or humans.
I think humans belong in inshore coastal waters as much as we belong in heavily forested areas. We have wiped out plenty of forest for development and to grow food without a thought for other species. I'm not necessarily for culling but I believe in a bit of balance. How about electricity? Is that necessary for human beings? How much destruction has gone on so we can have power? I'd say ocean recreation is more natural to humans than having power.

David Riggs Scary Encounter

https://www.picuki.com/profile/trapman_bermagui
Well worth a scroll down Trapmans pics

EG : https://www.picuki.com/media/2284194953264355432

Mid ocean Jim Shekhdar a British ocean rower and was the first person to complete a solo unassisted non-stop crossing of the Pacific Ocean tells of coming across some very hungry Great Whites in the middle of the ocean. Fish are pretty scarce out in mid ocean. For about an hour they repeatedly swam out and then aimed directly for his boat and rammed it hard trying to tip him out or punch a hole in it. Very unusual behaviour that shows that any generalisations on behaviour go out the window when predators are really hungry.

Fortunately, the local GWs around our coast are reasonably well fed or else we would be in big trouble.

Learned some quite remarkable stuff on the weekend. The world of fish is enveloped in noise! Over 800 species produce noise, from behavioural noise, to swimming. Some of it is quite loud, and can disrupt human activities (as human activities also disrupt the oceans)... Common knowledge is that whales and dolphins use sound, but it seems the fish do as well, to signal for mating, to communicate, etc

http://web.mit.edu/seagrant/digitalocean/listening.pdf

"Fishes produce sounds to communicate with one another while they are mating or being aggressive, and they also make noises associated with feeding and swimming. Over 800 species of fishes from 109 families worldwide are known to be vocal."

Because of this, a specialised field called fish bioacoustics exists, focusing on passive acoustics rather than tagging and 'pinging':

https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.631.9528&rep=r...

A good historiography of the research in that one.

Specialised hydrophones are the instrument of choice.

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/hydrophone.html

I wonder if we can isolate the sound of something as big as a GWS swimming? The ocean is far less silent that I presumed.

And to follow, a quick trip to the Battle of the Atlantic: to defeat the U-boats, ASDIC sonar and a combination of surface vessels and aircraft were used. Loss of life was high, on both sides. But by late WW2, sonar, aircraft like Short Sunderlands or Fairey Swordfish and escort ships prevailed. The Allies realised they needed a better system of detecting submarines, and the SOSUS array was built and deployed in the 1950s onward. It was able to track the noisy Soviet subs. As sound travels a long way, it was possible to locate the sources by triangulating from different points in the array.

A summary:

https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/listening-to-the-ocean-the-secretive-en...

Putting these together, I wonder if it would be possible to use existing, or develop extremely sensitive, passive acoustic hydrophones and locate them off surfing areas in an array that can triangulate to locate the position of a swimming shark? Software to identify and pinpoint could be fed to stations on the beach to advise of the presence, and distance, to a shark encounter.

A real time early warning system, if you will.

This might sound a bit silly, but I wonder if anyone's tested the sharks reaction to insect repellent, like aeroguard or rid. Fish and other animals hate the stuff, and definitely wont eat anything covered in it. A liberal application before paddling out may be enough to keep them from getting too close or having a test bite. They do have a very sensitive sense of smell, I'm thinking they'd clear the area once they get a whiff. And as an extra bonus if it works and enough people do it, the sharks would (maybe) over time learn to associate humans with the smell of the repellent and not be so curious as to what we taste like altogether.
p.s. I dont support a cull, that's just stupid, but apparently whites are nice eating? Makos are, and they're closely related.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/10/03/oral-history-time-shark-got...

Dug out the book I've referred to from my library as it is worth getting a first hand account of unusual Great White behaviour from Jim Shekhdar' in his book "Bold man of the sea" out in the middle of the Pacific solo in a row boat as he rowed across the Pacific.

"Ooooouufff! The entire boat shuddered with the force of the white pointer battering for the first time against the hull. He had wheeled around behind me, gathering speed on the approach, crashing against the side, and now he was wheeling again. Another glancing blow rocked the boat...........
After 20 minutes or so repeating this ..... he disappeared into the depths....
This incident marked the start of intermittent but regular attacks over a six week period when a tribe of white pointers, numbering maybe five or six or more, declared open season on the sides of my boat. Day after day, they would arrive in the vicinity and launch their incessant pummeling routine."

Over the weeks he hit them, jabbed them with his harpoon, tried to stab them leaving wounds but they kept at him thumping their heads hard into the boat ignoring the pain of his jabs and the boat impact until they eventually gave up.

Is this the usual scientific excuse that attacks are:
- Mistaken identity
- Exploratory bites
where the shark soon realises it was mistaken and moves on?

Or is the reality that very hungry sharks behave like very hungry sharks and become aggressive to the point that talk of exploratory bites or mistakes are not an accurate or useful description of what is going on.

The fullness of their belly is a random element in the risk equation as they check us out. Swimming with, and even kissing sharks, is possible..... if they have a full belly.

Oceanic White Tip?? Big,inquisitive and aggressive... Once the "most numerous large predator on Earth....now not just Decimated....pretty much Annihilated

He said white pointer and had weeks to observe them.

Back in the 60s the Jacque Cousteau expedition noted the oceanic white tip to be big trouble if they were out diving. Inquisitive and immediately, persistently aggressive. They were the ones who took out a lot of seamen in the WWII shipwrecks.

The South Pacific islanders feared the blue shark outside the lagoons which would attack their canoes. They thought tiger sharks were slow and stupid

So many different behaviours berween sharks and even locations you can't generalise too much.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-10-15/shark-predators-attack-ec...

Here's a tragicomic story of humans picking winners

http://theveterinarian.com.au/?p=2371

combined with a shift in ecosystems far away

https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/birds-water-vanish-macquarie-marshes-w...

and then the apocalyptic shift in the hunting grounds that ensues:

http://www.capetalk.co.za/articles/398271/watch-eco-friendly-shark-barri...

So what will it take to put that barrier around at least 3/4 of Australia...easy, I know...wait!...I just saw a flying pig, a pink elephant and my hens are switching to colgate as it's better for their teeth....fark me, I just check mated myself.

Did I mention Mars attacks tomorrow...well, yeah. Sharks got a message out to them, want them to come down and zap all the wiz bang vapor ware shark barriers with their lazer guns...poooof, and they were gone. That's that! Open season on humans continues unabated.

http://tedklenk.com/sharkpress/The%20fatal%20shores.htm

Take ways from the excellent article:

1/ You’d never see reporting that honest , accurate and balanced in the SMH these days.

2/ Even a mere 20 years ago Australians were much more open and acquainted with mortality than they are now.

3/ 20 years .

20 years since anyone was killed on the West coast of SA and crew are still acting like they’re liable to be picked off every time they enter the water ....WTF ? There’s been ONE death at Elliston in recorded modern history yet it’s believed to be a hotspot of death ....why ? You are far more likely to be killed by a shark at Nth wall Ballina.

4/ The fisherman themselves , who stated that pointers were thick in the early days , acknowledged that shark numbers did not equate to human deaths.

5/ The “intermediate expert “ opinions of those who have a dick relative in the tuna farming industry and who couldn’t suck off Rodney Fox hard enough recently are shown to be the clueless spivs they always were. Fox was the ultimate proponent of the “ endangered unicorn “ myth due to money in his pocket. This was obvious to anyone who’s ever seen five minutes of Shark Week.

6/ The article does no favours for the current round of shrill voices - including a bloke who’s opinion traditionally I enjoy and respect, Freeride - with its broader scope of the effect of sharks on the Australian lifestyle. The author reveals that only 9 official deaths from shark in SA over 50 years whilst casually noting that a couple related to a single shark victim drowned whilst fishing ....an equal blow to the lives of the victims without the hyperbole of falling victim to shark predation. Point being that people die everyday . No one will stare in fear where the couple drowned but the sight of the shark attack will eternally be held in awe.....why ? Death is death .

People die . It’s sad . It’s unfortunate. It’s an unavoidable consequence of being alive.

The East coast hosts MILLIONS of man hours in the water for every death. Several deaths this year does not mean there will be a corresponding amount of deaths next year. Shark numbers are growing yet deaths in SA are currently very , very low ( non existent ? [ touch wood ] ) where they were previously very threatening.

There may be larger cycles in play which we may not comprehend. Attacks may not correlate with shark numbers.

I’m not sure , I’m as vulnerable as yourself and probably more frightened but I don’t think that indiscriminate killing is the answer.

Not sure how I manage to fit the category of shrill voices Blowin, without getting into a barney you seem pretty down the road of intense feels yourself on that.
And I respect your opinion. but some of your language is definitely not moderate. Thats your business, just seems a bit rich to call others shrill.

I have a different perspective based on what has happened around me and to people I know in the last 5 years.

But for the record, I've maintained that Smart Drum lines are the best compromise we have right now for co-existing with what is clearly an increasing biomass of white sharks on the east coast, particularly sub-tropical NSW.

That doesn't sound very shrill to me.

It is non-lethal and gives us mountains of valuable real-time data.

As far as effects go, I ran into my mate at the top of the Point the other day.

He was in the water with Mani when he was fatally attacked in July about a hundred miles south of here.

Just outside Mani with his other mate. Their kids surfing. About a dozen out surfing crystal clear water head high lefts.

pack of dolphins went through.

Mani was sitting with two other people, in the middle, when he was first hit.

my mate said the savagery was intense, as we saw from the footage of the Greenmount attack.

that got one leg.

the shark came back and hit his other leg. Wouldn't let go.

One brave soul had to literally fight the shark off him.

this was no cautious, bite and spit.

He was basically bled out by the time they got him in. Frantically trying legropes to tourniquet the massive wounds. Kids screaming, full horror.

Chopper had to come from Tamworth, paramedics from Grafton. They got bogged on the beach trying to get to him.

It was more than an hour before medical help got to him.

My mate said they kept working away on him but his eyes. His eyes looked like the eyes of a fish who had been in the icebox.

Everyone on the beach, traumatised. Totally.
Small community traumatised.

Is that shrill?

It's just what happened.

I guess my point is, we're being sold a pup about these animals and the recovery plan takes no ethical responsibility for a policy of increasing populations of predators into coastal regions.

History will be the judge, but how many bleed-outs do we accept with grace?

It might back off, the whites might learn to stop attacking as they get bigger, or they might not.

Some of the frustration in the debate is that the go to experts roll out the same series of messages:
- mistaken identity
- exploratory bite
- numbers are not increasing
- risks are very low and not increasing
Messages that seems very likely to be incorrect.
At least in Cape Cod they are openly saying that with more seals in close and sharks, risks are much higher than in the past. They are closing beaches over and over again. The conversation is much more honest which reduces risks.

Whether any balanced and effective solutions exist to the problem is what remains uncertain.

Yeah , it seems a bit shrill.

A person died . That’s fucked up but it’s not extraordinary. It happens every single day on our roads. I don’t hear anyone going into detail about a tragically routine head on somewhere on our nation’s roads like you just delved into when discussing the statistically unlikely story of an unfortunate death by animal attack.

I’ve lost a couple of mates before their time - heart failure probably attributable to lifestyle ( cocaine use ) - and when they were fished lifeless from the water it didn’t make headlines. No one was remarking on the state of their eyes on a website months later. In fact I’ve lost quite a few people of a young age and no one is recounting the horrific circumstance beyond noting the loss.

It’s death . It’s shit . It’s traumatic and unfortunate and inevitable and sometimes untimely but it’s no different in the end.

Not that many people die from shark attack. It’s been literally years since the last death at Ballina. Should we still act as if it happened yesterday ?

Should I feel safer because no one has died here even though I could die tomorrow ?

It’s nature , it’s life .....it’s normal.

I’m not going to waste your time equating shark deaths with bee stings or vending machine deaths but i will say this : Do you think that a few deaths per year amongst the entire global surfing population is too many considering we thrive on being at the cutting edge of nature ?

Caveat.....I reckon any shark which has proven itself to be involved in an attack on humans should be dispatched immediately. Other than that I fully support non- lethal programs such as drum lines. I’m sure a solution will be found in the future will will render us almost shark proof. Till then....you want to dance , you’ve got to pay the band.

Frog....I think we’ve moved beyond those furphies.

"On arrival, he didn't have a pulse, so I would say that's not a good place to be in."

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/man-in-critical-condition-after...

1 1/2 hr watch but covers a lot - from early days cage diving to netting of St African beaches to save Tourism industry

Guy bitten at Port Macquarie this morning....haven't heard full report yet.

https://www.portnews.com.au/story/6994052/teen-in-hospital-after-town-be...

Fortunately for him it was not too serious, poor kid.

Yes another attack on a young boardrider confirmed at Port. Better engage the expert professors for their scientific opinions and more time-wasting, such a joke!

This is the way things were done in the late 80s Shotgun killings of GWS
Jeff Wright father of Jevan and his view that Killer sharks should be Destroyed
And the capture of the GWS that killed Terry Gibson.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/buqvasp1rr/orcas-spain-portugal?fbclid=...
A pretty interesting article on whats happening with the Orcas off the coast of Portugal this year. There's alot of parallels regarding dwindling food stocks for the Orcas and the role humans have played in it. If i was to wildly speculate..it seems the Orcas have worked out who's raping their ocean and have had enough.
Also of note is the Marine Scientist, Dr Ruth Estebans statement that she just "didn't believe it at all at first". and.. “These killer whales are always curious around boats, they will approach them,” she tells me. “But touching them and causing damage? I just thought people were scared and were misinterpreting what was happening.”
That sounds awfully familiar to the old "they're not interested in eating us, they're just curious" argument scientists are always trying to tell us about White Pointers even though they tend to have minimal interaction in the circumstances and environment surfers are in when the interactions occur. Its different watching and studying a shark as opposed to a shark studying and watching you.

Dozens of dead sharks on South Straddie Beach. (re: South Moreton Marine Park)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9021157/Authorities-investigate...

Notes:
Photos - Sand / water colour indicates the Broadwater side of Straddie.
Popular Beach may refer to Tipplers Resort Swimming Enclosure.

Similar Local Examples
2018 : Tweed Bar (14 Sharks laid on rocks with heads Cut)
https://www.northernstar.com.au/news/haul-of-dead-sharks-met-with-outrag...
2018 : ( Bond Uni )3 Sharks have been caught & beached at Lake Orr
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6532137/Hungry-bull-sharks-inva...
Cyclones often wash up a Shark.

Most Similar o/s Examples
2016 Alabama
https://www.earthtouchnews.com/oceans/sharks/dozens-of-baby-sharks-found...
2018 : Wellington
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/100550322/a-dozen-dead-sharks-wash-up-i...

Also common in Asia where the Shark's Heads-Teeth / Fins are removed.
Similar to Tweed but no need to show more of that horror show!

Heads up Margs crew..
Reported shark bite, Gracetown, 15mins ago. On the foot. Female. Hope she's ok.

Hold the phone! Suspect was likely a wobbegong.

Have a look at the Battle Scars on this GWS...faark