The Great Reset
“Dad, you’ve got to hear this,” said my youngest, going through the horoscopes in the weekly paper.
I was putting wet wetties out to dry after yesterday arvo’s waves, and thinking deep down that they might well be the last ones for a while. The closure of French beaches was one thing, but the lockdown of Sydney’s eastern beaches was giving me serious pause for thought, and I’d just rescheduled the regular family trip north until next year.
“It says that you’re finally going to get a big project done,” she said. “Does that mean that with coronavirus keeping us at home you’re finally going to get the pergola finished?”
As they say, every cloud has a silver lining, and at this point in time it might do us all well to try to find them. With so much happening so quickly and so much of it being the stuff of nightmares, it’s easy to focus on the negative. The fact that the stakes are much higher than they have been in a long time doesn’t make it any easier to see the positives, either. But we owe it to ourselves and everyone around us to try.
Depending on where you sit on the surfing spectrum, we’re already being affected by this and are about to go under a few more set waves before any kind of lull eventuates. The effects are many and varied, and it’s going to impact every aspect of our lives.
My first thought a few weeks ago was that the international situation was going to ground the travellers for the whole Indo season and the surf at home would not be only more crowded, but there’d be more good surfers in the water. Those who follow or and/or rely on the Wozzle are upset the comps are being postponed. The competitive crowd can’t compete, even in their local clubs. Demand for boards and gear are likely to slow down as jobs are affected, with flow-on effects likely throughout the industry. The list goes on, and now we have a question mark hanging over the very notion of going to the beach.
Most of us know how good surfing is for us – for some it’s exercise, others need it to clear their heads and escape the reality that disappears when you hit the water and descends again once pull your leggie off (sorry, hipsters). As someone who works from home, I enjoy the social contact in the water and the chance to muck around. But having had extended periods out of the water due to injury, I know that it can be done.
At the moment we have a couple of different surfing scenarios to choose from, though with things changing as fast as they are, things might be quite different by the end of the week, if not sooner. As I see it, it pretty much boils down to this:
- We get to keep surfing if we maintain social distancing or
- Beaches get closed as part of a broader lockdown
If we get to keep surfing, which I doubt we will, I suspect a great many of us will be very happy. Nobody likes being out of the water or watching good empty waves reel off….at least not for more than a minute or two if you haven’t been wet already. But if we do, it is going to be pretty crowded, and there’s a good chance the stress and general desperation that seems likely to evolve is going to spill over into the water. The other challenge we have is that while surfing is one of the few things which are often better on your own, to get through this we’re all going to have to pull our weight as a society.
Perhaps if were to take a different approach, perhaps if we were to treat this as a bit of a turning point, perhaps we could actually make surfing the salve we will so desperately need from the reality on its way over the next few months or the tonic we get to return to once it settles down. Perhaps this provides the opportunity for a bit of a reset.
To illustrate, I think bog-roll-rage and surf-rage have a lot in common. Some people are taking more than their fair share and others are missing out. They’re barging in and in some cases fighting over a finite item that everyone considers essential. There’s been widespread community outrage directed at the hoarders and those who won’t share, because they’re not playing by society’s rules. Perhaps this shared experience provides a chance to reset everyone in the water - from good surfers to beginners - on what the rules of surfing are.
Tolerance is a concept which rarely makes an appearance in surfing. Lip service perhaps, but once you’re in the water surfing is probably as close to the law of the jungle as you can get in the modern age. A veritable vestige of the good old days. Having surfed for a long time and earned my stripes, there’s a part of me that, if I’m honest, has some time for the Darwinian approach. Yet I’m not sure it will serve us that well in the increasingly stressed and crowded future we face, even without COVID-19. To keep the stalwarts happy, perhaps there’s a way to keep the best parts of the jungle journey – the learning process, surfing places which match your ability, the safety of a lineup where everyone knows what they’re doing – but to introduce a bit more kindness and practice more of the Australian egalitarianism that we’re quick to claim is part of our DNA.
You could call someone into a wave. Take your turn and don’t paddle for set waves if you just caught one. Go to the end of the line if you paddle and miss the wave. Let the learner flapping around out wide know that they are much safer learning on the inside. Be quick to apologise if you drop in by mistake, and go home if you do it deliberately. Wear a legrope so your board doesn’t collect people. Paddle for the whitewater instead of the shoulder. And make sure you hoot.
I really hope you don’t sneak out for a wave if the beaches are closed. You won’t see me - I’ll be on the tools in the pergola.
// STEVE BLACKLEY
(Homepage and article photo Craig Brokensha)
Comments
I don't think anyone can safely guess what the lasting changes of CV will be. The human psyche is complicated, we don't yet understand it, and this event is unprecedented. Despite that, a part of me thinks that surfers will return to business as usual faster than wider society.
Nice article Steve, agree with most and I've pondered it for some time. I've been enjoying finishing projects (one yesterday) that I put off for ages as Life got in the way.
One further point, if you are unsure of how infected others in the lineup are (as we are sometimes strangers surfing together), you might want to keep extra distance; and you might be surprised that others feel this way too. Some people are more at risk, so if they paddle off to the next peak rather than nicely call you into a wave or continually position upwind of you, it might not be personal. This might also hold true some months later, especially if Australia follows the 'hammer and dance' method of virus suppression, and there is still the risk of flare ups of the virus in localities. I figure in a way, everything has changed.
Well said.
i never thought i would say this but having bipola is a bonus as i have been isolated most of my life and i am used to it, depression and anxiety are my normal. i have my meds so all is good. now its your turn to experience loneliness.
on a different note.
what if world war 3 started and nobody knew????
we only have china word that it was an accident, a pretty big fucken accident, the whole world is fucked.
first strike wins. the populations dies and the infrastructure remains intact. excellent way to invade a country.
its going to be interesting to see what happens in 12 months time.
i think were in for a depression, no work, no food.
good luck people
"what if world war 3 started and nobody knew" - too late - that was 11/9/01.
Hitler said, 'the fourth reich will be an economic reich' which we are seeing right NOW disguised as a virus.
Influenza kills 300,000 to 650,000 people per year. The Spanish flu killed 40-50 million 1918-1919.
People currently begging for martial law.
Nazis loving life - smile, you're on Bayer-owned candid camera.
Ridiculous situation.
Agree Ape, its a very well orchestrated tip toe totalitarian shuffle. Bill Gates & The Rockefella Foundation looking at trialing micro chip tattoos so you can tell who has been CV screened/tested. Shambles.
Dear ape anon, your post has a few flaws, such as,
A, this virus hasnt done a full year yet so you cant compare it to ones that did/do.
We're only 3 and a bit months deep.
B, if every country did nothing, it would be a massacre on a global scale.
C. No one is 'begging for martial law'.
There's probly more but ya know, dont feed the trolls n all yadayadayada.
Surfers don't tend to be rocket scientists hey...
I reckon a better conspiracy is this last year was a massive wake up call to the powers that be we are heading for environmental catastrophe. NASA which is funded by the US government and feeds information to the
UN has been warning since at least 2012 carbon emissions have to drop by 75% for the world to have a chance of dealing with climate change. NASA’s major focus since the space program ended in the 70s has been monitoring the Earth’s climate and atmosphere. Indian and Chinese researchers were gagged for saying the virus had similar protein characteristics to AIDS and Ebola which suggest it is likely man made. Basically the powers that be had to pull the trigger on something that would drastically halt emission and do something to protect the environment with no debate - remember how much diplomatic disagreement the last environmental summit had with zero progress? The various positive effects for the Earth’s environment are extensive (at least if the current trend continues). Google satellite images of how much pollution has dropped over China in the past 2 months.
If you had the option; pull the trigger kill a few, fuck the global economy but save humanity from extinction who wouldn’t do it? Is that the reality we faced... I believe so.
Conspiracy but a lot of it lines up depending on what you read.
I heard Greta pushed the release button on the virus distributor herself.
Indo was right !
The pieces of the puzzle just keep falling into place!
You sound scared.
But what are you doing about it? Forums aren't going to help your post-apocalyptic nightmare.
I'm more and more of the mind that it was no accident for reasons i outlined in another thread.
I like the sentiment of the article and in the real world wish it was true, but surfing is inherently selfish. There has and always will be those that take more than their share.
I'm gonna use this down time to prepare my garden beds for when the last frost comes and i can plant and i'm also gonna dismantle an old rusty storage shed. I've got plenty to do.
Locked out of the snow resorts yet ?
Most closed early in our area anyway Dean. Been such a crap season to begin with. Our area sees very few foreigners, it's mostly local and Tokyo driven. Few Chinese starting to come but conspicuously absent this year.
Having said that, picked the eyes out of it and got a few quality days. Done for this year.
"I like the sentiment of the article and in the real world wish it was true, but surfing is inherently selfish. There has and always will be those that take more than their share."
That can be said about almost anything. Depends on the lense your looking at it through.
Look at what's happened with panic buying, you can now safely say that the vast majority of humanity is inherently selfish....
True, but in amongst that when you experience small acts of kindness or reciprocate without having to telegraph it to the world, that's when humanity shines.
It's still out there Billy, sometimes it's just hard to see with all the noise.
I was in the local paint shop yesterday getting stuff for work, panic buying has hit it too, never seen it so busy with non regulars (painters and tilers) , empty shelves! Hardware shop too, running out of stuff. Guess everyone going to be painting/ renovating their houses in lockdown - guess that means less work for tradies even if/when this thing winds down, didnt see that coming . Still working for now luckily , empty house, depressing radio repeat cycle.
Great article Steve! I certainly hope you're right on the reset...not only in the water but that the whole world finally wakes up to the fucked up model of capitalism, consumerism, globalization and infinite economic growth too. I doubt it though...on both fronts!
PS...some punters are saying there is less chance of you finishing that pergola than a new egalitarian world being created in the aftermath.
As you know, Yabby, I have been threatened with all my seagulled recycled timber being given away if it's not completed. And this time she isn't joking. It will be done, and when this is all over I hope you'll enjoy a beer beneath it.
In a contest the rules are if you have priority then you are allowed to drop in on a surfer who has taken off and may be getting the wave of their life. But that is against the law of surfing, as far as i always understood anyways. It would seem that when money is involved what is tried and true seems to be pushed aside. That certainly appears true in our society too. If your rich no ones really that concerned that you capitalised on foreign labour to make your millions . Your a success in the financial world. So yeah the mega rich i highly doubht have everyones best interests at heart. As a man or woman if you want to go in the ocean i believe you have the right to do so. No other man or woman has the god given right to stop you.
Much angst for everyone worldwide at the moment, hard to tell how, what or when's we will be seeing on the other side of it. Hard to believe this whole thing is only 3 months in! The surfer mentality that is ingrained in us is really hard to shake. My cup runneth over in regards to surf Stoke, after a run of good to great surf in the past 3-4weeks in my region of the MNC. But still I'll be getting surfgry within a couple of days if the waves are good, and I'm missing out. Hopefully it doesn't come to that, but I'm thinking they will enforce blanket bans regardless. Probably the only way I'll get to the multitude of tasks and projects I've been meaning to get to on our property though. Which pretty much clearly demonstrates in some ways how selfish, immature and irrational we as surfers can be. ( Disclaimer: benefits/positives of being a surfer far outway negative aspects of being a surfer. We are near the bottom on the list of cunty/lifestyle demographics.)
"selfish, immature and irrational" - sounds like a career politician.
Surfers on the other hand tend to be calm under pressure - used to dealing with life or death situations, our nervous systems are built to react fast. Slow situations are boring -lack stimulus for hard-wired intelligence. Salt water is like an ionized bath -taking away the over-stimulation (and free radicals) gained through dealing with the day to day bs. How do we know it's bs? The Buddha said, 'all things are temporary'. We know the self is not an external construct, surfing allows us to reflect and meditate on true reality -be in the flow.
Is it selfish to be healthy? Is it selfish to become one with nature and purify our minds, to gain perspective? Does it not benefit others around us for the fact that we demonstrate a passion for what is real and lasting?
You did see the disclaimer after that statement, just to give it a bit of context? More a personal reflection, and I guess societies reflection on our beloved pastime in some ways. I've got a Lifetime of selfish, immature and irrational behaviour under my belt from being a surfer, but I wouldn't change it as the benefits from it both mentally and physically far outweigh any negatives affects on myself or others.
There's an extended run of tradeswell for SE QLD/Nth NSW beginning this Sunday. A week of 3-4 ft and light cross-shore inside the points.
That's gonna test the lockdown.
My guess is D'Bah and Snapper will have signs on the beach this time next week.
Locals will be all Charlton Heston - they can take my board out of my cold dead hands! Actually it would be impossible to police, with QPS all tied up 24/7 manning Palletchooks stupid boarder checkpoints. None of which prevent anyone getting to the points BTW.
If it turns into a depression I’m going to finally sell my prized possession * and buy half the beaches in Australia and block you scruffy fucken surfy types from stinking up my beaches.
Your chicks are welcome.....as long as they don’t surf and know how to lay on false praise for surfing ability extra thick.
* The Elvis “ The King “ Presley’s own spew and piss stained Vegas showsuit. Got to be worth a few hundred million when the world’s lost its marbles. You could build a cult around that thing .
Viva Las Vegas , baby !
I dont think the angle was is it selfish to surf it is more about the selfish behaviour that is becoming the norm in australian culture ..eg recent punch ups over stock on shelves just rubbish behaviour ....you see in the way poeple drive ..tailgating not indicating you see it in the surf poeple taking every wave others abusing weaker or less capable poeple instead of talking ...general public not really giving to much of a fuck about anybody else seems to be the norm .....it is a good time right now to adjust yourself if your getting angry or being abit of an arsehole pull it up ...lot poeple goona be under a lot of financial stress in next few months and beyond ....
Thanks Shaun, that's a large part of what I was aiming at. Cheers.
Well said Shaun. Be kind to your brothers and sisters should be your mantra, especially in these trying times.
Respect your elders too.
Anyone read King Rat by James Clavelle ?
Go on Blowin... what's the relevance? Shogun by James Clavelle is an all time fave...
King rat is an epic tale regarding the measure of humanity people are prepared to sacrifice in order to survive.
Set amongst the constant degradation and desperation of a Japanese POW camp in WW2 , the US , Aussie and English soldiers draw impossible strength from themselves and each other or they die.
Meanwhile.....the King Rat thrives.
Great read.
Sounds epic. Going to hunt it down
I bumped into the award winning film 'Platform' last night on Netflix. A timely release if there ever was one. A great comment on the human society. Made me think anyway :))
Hmmm...
surf industry = non essential.
retail shops = non essential.
Where are you going to buy your wax, legrope, wetsuit, board, etc?
It's not far away. We'll only have essential services.
Construction sites and associated business with retail next. Then the accountants and lawyers.
Essential services / businesses only within a month. Health system can't / won't cope otherwise. Watch the number of cases grow as testing expanded.
Good luck getting near the beach if you don't live close.
Humanity, society, our way of life will be changed forever. Once everyone knows someone who is really sick from this thing, mortality sinks home, becomes real. People will change. Society will change.
And, FFS, keep your eye on where Chinese military boats are positioned in the Pacific.
Going to be extremely interesting if there're some decent waves.
The surf today is absolute dogshit.
I mean, it's 1-2ft onshore garbage and the type of surf that especially on a Tuesday would normally see 2 guys max in the water, or more likely none.
Instead there are maybe a dozen fellas in the water and 25-30 cars in the carpark, dads and their sons, school kids, people having picnics, the whole deal.
And of course, me.
I fully intend to keep surfing (as far away from everybody else as possible) during this thing.
If the cops patrol the beach carparks I'll be parking across the road and doing stealth missions.
When the Chinese Navy comes the government will hold a parade and make a fanfare about it as though they’re here to save us and as though we’ve got a say in the matter.
Nope, it will be more like this:
(seriously, this guy is brilliant - an amateur who has produced a clear analysis that betters every single official take on this event I've seen or read... He posts one up when he has time, hundreds of thousands of people waiting for his second installment on Midway currently. Listening, I thought he might USNI, but no, he is just an enthusiast.)
Have you seen the new movie Midway yet ?
Yes that was the last cinema outing before we went quiet. They got a lot of it right, and I also note it was not usual Hollywood funding and writing it. They must've read Parshall & Tully's "Shattered Sword", the best book on it presently. The characters were played pretty well, consistent with the times and all the bravado of carrier pilots. On the Japanese side, Tamon Yamaguchi was played well, and him remaining behind on Hiryu and his last words were done accurately. Probably too much AA/pew pew pew but that was a lot of the visual action. Dauntlesses were tough planes though don't know if they were doing hammerhead turns. The young guy on Enterprise jumping into the plane crashed on deck and using the AA, that was real, as was his fate. Also accurate was the 'Thatch Weave', deployed from theory into legend right in the middle of the battle. As were the dive bombers appearing over Kaga without opposition and all the carnage that followed. Ship-nerd errors: Lexington sank before Enterprise got there, and Lexington sinking could have been Lexington, and not another Yorktown class CV (CGI is cheap, right?) and the destroyer Arashi that tried to sink the sub Nautilus and was seen sailing away in the scope vision was a destroyer, not a Kongo class battlecruiser. But overall, the ships and aircraft were done superbly and I liked the portrayal of the main characters which were fairly in line with historical accounts.
Ship nerd. Nice work VJ.
love this .....theyre called leaders.....????
"Tolerance is a concept which rarely makes an appearance in surfing."
I know this is the conventional wisdom, but I think reality dictates otherwise.
Tolerance is the rule, aggression the exception.
Far more tolerant lineups now than in the 70's/80's/90's.
I surf some (occasionally) some of the most crowded lineups on Earth....it's staggering how everyone manages to get by, with aggression and violence rarely observed.
We take note of aggression and surf rage because it's newsworthy and the mainstream media loves it, but it's rare as hens teeth and getting rarer.
Even beatdowns at Pipeline are rare.
That's a fair point, Freeride. I grew up with line-ups of the late 70s into the 80s and it was interesting to say the least. I agree that there's a degree of tolerance of the craft being ridden, though I'd argue that it is a very recent thing that's gained traction through the acceptance and/or interest of people in lots of different craft. There are still issues with SUPs and foils, even with longboards in some places. More people travel and there seems to be a bit more tolerance of visitors in the water at many spots, as long as they behave. Having said that, I think we still have a long way to go.
The issues with Foils and SUPS's are safety issues, not attitudinal.
They clearly present a danger to other water users, especially in crowds.
Again, for the most part foilers and SUPS's have now been regulated, either self regulated or by local surf communities.
I see that as a nett positive and evidence for tolerance, not intolerance.
@Blowin many believe that they don't need a Navy or to even raise a fist in anger. So much of the Aussie economy is reliant on China's spend, that they will just tactfully stop buying from here, and will export more directly from here to there via the companies they own and exclude any domestic access. The reality is that money makes the world go round and they are in the position of power.
@Steve interesting article.
.
Agreed, I think there's huge tolerance in the surf, especially around my local area.
Everyone from primary school kids to fellas in their 70s, shortboarders, midlengths, mals, kneelos, guys, girls - as long as people understand and abide by the etiquette, things are fine.
Yeah it can go close to law of the jungle sometimes but for the vast majority of the time there's little but tolerance for those who are happy to abide by the (written) rules.
When we return.
I ain’t Effin leaving .....
Hawaii is maintaining surfing but with social distancing.
hope that happens here.
Well, this is the local carpark today on a 1-2ft onshore dogshit day.
Don't reckon the guvmint or the cops will have it.
Some pretty interesting perspectives here.
Great article Steve, I hope that perspective permeates the greater community post virus. The generation that came out of WW1 , the Spanish flu and the depression all back to back seemed to have had a more tolerant and considerate view of each other. I hope we’re not in for that kind of pain but I also hope we have the reset do describe in and out of the water.
I couldn't even be bothered reading this article. The Great Reset? 'When we all return?Talk about fucking clueless as to the potential for all this.
and what the fuck is this site doing publishing surf reports and encouraging people to go surfing. unbelievably irresponsible that someone would be thinking it would be ok to do the once round the beaches in the morning and then write something that encourages the people to go.
leave the cams on by all means but shut the fuck up about the surf for a few weeks (to start). This virus is unbelievably infectious and if there are a group of people - a group being any number higher than one - sitting around on a peak or a rock somewhere, and one of them is infectious, then the likelihood of it being passed on is there and gets higher the more punters there are.
I'll say it again, this virus came from a wet market. It can exist just fine in salt water, and eveybody knows how much drool, spittle and snot that comes out of us continually when we surf. If you're surfing with even one other person you are breaking the most rudimentary of social distancing requirements...you know the one: "Don't spit/snot in my mouth"
Something else to think about is that there is a high viral load found in the faeces of Covid19 patients. Guess where a lot of our shit goes. I'll tell you. Into the sea. So even if you are by yourself and out surfing around any populated centres - good luck with that and happy days everyone when you head home to the family for a shower and a beer before tea.
What the fuck aren't you getting about this Stunet?
Viruses are not 'alive' in any real sense and don't have any sort of metabolism as lone agents. Thus they could feasibly drift around quite happily in sea water for months, and definitely for as long as it takes for a bit of a slick to blow in from one of our 'new' sewage outfalls.
Ditch the reports. Reminisce at home for a few months and don't stress about it. There are far more important things in life than surfing. Leave it a while, do the right thing, and maybe one day we'll all be able to get back to it.
Good site this though I'll give you that. The more people are around to enjoy it in the future the better, don't you think?
Thanks for telling us all what to do Wallpaper. Enjoy your solitude.
Strong words. ^ We’re in full lockdown here in NZ from tonight for four weeks. The official line is that you’re allowed outside to exercise but you can’t drive a car unless to get food or to seek medical attention. I think this means you can only surf if you can walk there. Should be interesting to see how this pans out. Certainly a situation I hadn’t even contemplated up until a couple of weeks ago.
Strong words?
Hysterical, really.
Quiet space and sanity is at a premium right now, so I think I'll leave Wallpaper and his words alone.
carry on contributing to the problem then mate.
you have no idea.
other people have taken a financial hit on this. you're no better than Gerry Harvey.
odds on bet there's a major cluster up the gold coast in coming weeks.
No Stunet. Why should I miss out on surf reports of my favourite region, stuck 2 hrs onshore keeping an essential food product within the system.
I cannot get out for a lip crack....or barrel roll but at least I get to continue seeing forecast and surf cam comparisons that keep me hanging for a surf.
Maybe what wallpaper is really trying to say is... how about maybe putting up an up to date localised government disclaimer or two about restrictions, within a locations forecast to keep in rythem with the times.
That is if you are not going to stop giving reports.
PS keep the reports reckon!
I'm no a doctor, but I think that Wallpaper makes a valid point about potential virus transmission in seawater.
A quick google, and here's an article from The Lancet which appears to confirm that it's not just saliva/sputum which carries the virus, but that it has been found in urine, blood and stool samples.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30235-8/fulltext
There are plenty more reputable sources saying similar things.
I'm not sure about longevity in seawater though.
Sure, according to Wallpaper it can hang around in the ocean for months!
I'd love to see the source of that info.
I don't see why you can't still surf, there's plenty of hidden gems down in the South West that will have zero crowds now (intrastate travel ban), plus the salmon will be running soon (more men in grey suits) which means the whole coast will be ripe for the picking.
Dunno about doomsday man (Wallpaper) but I've got my sticks ready for the next swell.
Have a shit one lads.
youd like to see the source of that info?
viruses are not alive and can't 'die'.
viruses are everywhere in terrestrial environments, and that includes marine ones. you clearly don't know what a virus is. We really don't know much about this one yet at all, except that it's highly infectious and very dangerous to an uncomfortably large proportion of those who get it. So if you want to take a punt on it mate go for your life.
if there was no one surfing except you down at some south coast slab, and you didn't get out of the car to fill it up with petrol or get a wanky coffee or whatever, yeah I'd say you're being responsible and behaving safely.
If you're heading out to North Narra, Ladies, Superbank surfing in close proximity to 1-500 of your mates, then you are a fucking idiot.
one more thing. it might be an idea to stock up on the cod liver oil or Vitamin D caps. Nobody knows where this is going, but if there's the slightest chance you might be spending winter indoors then that would be a smart thing to do.
by the way if you think that you can be in a crowd of people on land or sea separated by 1.5m from is good protection against this thing, then you're living in fucking dreamland.
I don't drink coffee, my car is electric, North Narrabeen is for has-beens that punch blowins, the superbank is only good for paddling up the point behind a chick sporting a bikini.
UV light and seawater are not good for any virus.
Not only is blood mostly water, but the watery portion of blood, the plasma, has a concentration of salt and other ions that is remarkably similar to sea water.Oct 20, 2008
The Wonders of Blood - The New York Timeswww.nytimes.com › 2008/10/21 › science
As for UV, so you reckon this is something that people are only getting indoors. seems even our incompetent gov doesn't agree with you on that one, seeing as gatherings anywhere are getting the kybosh.
Have a read of this Wallpaper.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/health/coronavirus-sars-cov...
This from another paper.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1280232/
"Sunlight or, more specifically, solar UV radiation (UV) acts as the principal natural virucide in the environment. UV radiation kills viruses by chemically modifying their genetic material, DNA and RNA. "
Being out in the fresh air and sunshine in the ocean, as long as it's not within cooee of anyone else is probably the safest place to be.
The Journal of Virology paper you cite here FR does note that UV is a virucide, but the central intent of that paper appears to be "....our approach can be used to estimate survival of a wide variety of viruses after their release at any location and time of the year. Our approach and estimations of virus survival should be useful to develop more efficient countermeasures and to develop improved quarantine guidelines for cities and other areas contaminated after a viral release."
It seems to say that viruses have different survival rates depending on the amount and kind of UV radiation they're exposed to in different parts of the world at different times of the year, and their research helps you work those survival rates out.
In a 2003 article in Clinical Microbiology Reviews (from the same mob who publish the journal above), the authors found:
"......a number of investigations have shown that pathogenic viruses are prevalent in marine waters being impacted by sewage. Research has shown that this group of fecal-oral viral pathogens (enteroviruses, hepatitis A viruses, Norwalk viruses, reoviruses, adenoviruses, rotaviruses, etc.) can cause a broad range of asymptomatic to severe gastrointestinal, respiratory, and eye, nose, ear, and skin infections in people exposed through recreational use of the water. The viruses and the nucleic acid signature survive for an extended period in the marine environment."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC145303/
A review by Gerba 2005 in a book published by Springer focuses on factors that could play a role in the survival of human pathogenic viruses in the marine environment.
Here's the link to the book: https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9780387237084
Here's the link to the full chapter - check Table 6.1. https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F0-387-23709-7_6.pdf
It mentions that coronaviruses are the only enteric viruses with a lipid coat, while most of the others have protein coats, but doesn't say how that might affect their transmission/survival in seawater. Perhaps it has something to do with the resilience of the lipid coat vs the protein coat to all those factors on Table 6.1.
There are a lot of other refs on the web from reputable and peer-reviewed sources which confirm viral survival in seawater.
Unless someone has some concrete references to refute this, I think there's a serious chance that COVID-19 can survive in aquatic environments, including seawater. The question is for how long can it survive.
Has anyone got any good science on this?
OK.
On balance of probability if you're not in sewage impacted marine environments it's still likely that as corona viruses include the common cold its likely that UV light (sunlight) will degrade its genetic material.
Point being, surfing in sunlight and clean water, is highly likely to be extremely safe.
fark i surfed poo point the other week and it was epic!!!!
It's been getting pretty busy the last couple of years, but half your luck.
by myself!!
Wallpaper just tryna lessen crowds at his local.
Surf on lads.
ignorant fool, I wish you all the best in the coming weeks and months and hope that you get through it all with no regrets.
Well I never go out in a crowd even pre virus but to suggest surfing is out because you’ll catch it in the ocean is bizarre.
If you can surf by yourself or distant from others, I say go for it.
And I will not travel to surf now and luckily there’s plenty of empty peaks around here.
To Wallpaper: Things are generally fairly civil round here. Please bear that in mind. Nothing wrong with expressing strongly held beliefs, but if you want people to take you seriously I suggest refraining from personal attacks and name calling. Thank you.
This is one time I’m glad I live on the Coffs Coast, great 2.5hr surf this morning with 8 of us, plenty of spots to go where no one will know.
Doubt they will stop us unless they have road blocks lol.
One more point about seawater and the surf zone in particular is it's tremendous dispersal and dilution effects.
Paddling around in stagnant seawater in (say) a polluted harbour or estuary is one thing.
Surfing in a dynamic surf zone is another.
You'd need a helluva lot of viral material to overcome that dispersal and dilution.
Assuming, of course, you don't duck dive into someone's golly they just hacked up.
you too are an ignorant fool freeride.
the point is the more people that stay home over the next couple/few months the quicker this thing will be over.
the statistics are saying that if 80% of people just stay inside for the next couple of months and don't associate with people from outside at all then we'll have this knocked on the head.
the trouble it that people like you and a few others on here want everyone else to do the heavy lifting for them. Bludgers.
that sort of laissez faire attitude is what's going to bring us unstuck here, and if old mate stunet thinks that him encouraging people to get up the beach with his juvenile and irresponsible surf reporting is ok, and that if even one person gets infected or dies because of that is ok, then I really don't have anything more to say on the matter.
in the meantime enjoy a bit of Ringer and Chichin.
La petit train - train de la mort - what the fuck are you doing?
As I've mentioned on here before...
Mate of mine is in the AFP and they're expecting a huge spike in mental issues during the coming weeks and months, all because people are cooped up inside. Only a peabrain will think there won't be drastic negative effects on the other side.
Now, unlike you who's only capable of seeing things in binary terms, for many people the choices are balanced. Such as, can I get to the beach for a short surf without interacting with anyone?
If not, why not?
You'll note the PM has allowed bootcamp training and other forms of exercise in groups of ten or less, so why not surfing solo or in very small, widely dispersed groups?
I imagine some people won't be able to see beyond their own lives, realising that not everyone lives in a crowded city. For instance, it is very easy for me to go down for a swim or surf without going near anyone. Only a hysterical ranter would think that's an irresponsible thing to do. Who am I infecting?
The other thing people are underestimating is individual volition: Do you really believe people will stop swimming or surfing because reports cease on Swellnet? C'mon Mussolini...give people a little more credit. They are able to make up their own minds.
Note: We don't even have a surf cam at Bondi yet that was the beach that started the brouhaha.
Also, in the scheme of the national surf community, we have very, very few subscribers. If we turned off notes and reports it won't make a lick of difference, people will still go, with my own personal opinion that some people SHOULD go (based on what I said earlier about AFP).
Have a short solo surf, get your sanity back.
Lastly, we've had people email us and say not to stop because it keeps them connected. Perhaps they're people that live in the cities, live too far away from empty places, so can't make the journey? I don't know, I can't tell where the live from an email address, but they say it helps so we'll continue.
I know you're going to reply with an angry retort, you're too locked in for perspective, but I'd strongly suggest saving your energy and putting it into something more positive. Something that might improve your family's immediate situation.
Great response Stu. Ben and Craig need to keep the forecasts and reports coming!
Wallpaper should direct his feedback to the government or media, not some surf website run by three local blokes. Ultimately SN shouldn't tank their business when in reality surfers will continue to surf regardless. That is unless advised by the government, but even then i dont think those in remote areas will abstain completely if they can get away with it.
When I spent three months working in SE Asia last year with no surf, I still read every forecast.
You come across as a prize specimen of anonymous internet fuckwit Wallpaper.
I'm spending day and night researching this and staying abreast of the latest science. I'll take their word over some fuckwit ranting on the internet.
I already know at least a dozen people out of a livelihood with no prospects for the foreseeable future. Families to feed, mortgages to pay. Kids to educate.
Might take months, years or a decade for them to get back on their feet. In the meantime they are at the mercy of a welfare system that says their first payment won't happen until Apr29.
And you're going to tell them not to go down the beach and have a solo surf/swim.
You don't know what the fuck you are talking about. You should shut your goddamn trap.
Have a listen to an expert in mental health, Prof Patrick McGorry and try and educate yourself on the enormous impact this is having on families/individuals.
https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/expert-calls-for...
I'll let an actual expert reply to you.
Over on ABC Breakfast, infectious disease expert Dr Nick Coatsworth, who is one of the experts advising the government on the Covid-19 pandemic, had some very, very strong words for doctors like the ABC’s Dr Norman Swan who are pushing for stronger lockdowns and restrictions.
Coatsworth, who has also managed disaster and humanitarian response for two decades, says “the experts around the table” of the medical committee “do not think this will be over in weeks if you put in harder and faster measures”
This is about degrees. We have gone hard, to say that we have gone light and slow would be completely inaccurate. The measures we have got in at the moment are unprecedented. The impact they are going to have on individual families is unprecedented. I’ve got three kids, I’ve got a mum who has emphysema, I’ve got a wife who is a respiratory physician and I’ve got a sister-in-law who has lost $100,000, because she is a high live opera performer and her entire annual income is gone.
These are unprecedented measures already and I am sorry I disagree with Norman when he thinks this is going to be over in weeks if we go for harder and faster lock downs, I would like Norman to go to Darwin and tell the people of Darwin why they have to stay in their houses, when we are a continent and there is differential expression of this virus and its impact across the country.
So people can ask for the hardest and fastest, but I don’t think they have thought through the impact on Australia, and Australians who are doing that.”
At the moment Government reps are talking to social workers, welfare workers and counselors, who work within government affiliated programs, to be prepared. They are been told to prepare and expect lots of domestic abuse, child abuse and family violence matters in the next few months...... It says everything about the impact this virus lockdown will have on certain sections /people in our society.
Hey Freeride - Dr Nick Coatsworth is a conservative gov appointment, speaking on behalf of conservative gov currently in power. Dr Norman Swan's thoughts are independant.
On another note the conservative gov in power both nationally and in NSW have tragically run with the mantra of "Stop the boats" cooking up a fear campaign since fearless fly John Howard's war mongering days. Well the conservatives sure as hell didn't stop the boat that actually counted last week in Sydney, and nor did they stop the planes early enough to keep 32,000 Chinese students out (not that i'm against foreign students in normal times, but i am against the principle of fee paying at universities (another tragic conservative fail.) Moral of the story - When it comes to protecting our boarders when it really counts the Conservatives have been exposed as tragic / hypocritical failures! I favour the way progressive politicians that care about their citizens seem to be approaching the response to Covid 19. IE Jacinda and Mr Andrews in Vic. Shut down and save lives and the economy will be able to turn around faster anyways!
What about Pat McGorry?
shoot that messenger too?
(I agree with your point about conservatives though)
"When it comes to protecting our boarders when it really counts the Conservatives have been exposed as tragic / hypocritical failures!"
Again, I hope like hell this gets remembered at the next election/s.
I agree sunshine and surf is great medicine. Take plenty of vitamin C too.
From our neighbours, could be where we are heading in the not too distant future:
Yep and many of us are not happy about it. My local had the cops pulling guys out of the water this morning and lots of local crew are being very vocal about not surfing but not everyone by far. We've got a good swell the next 3 days so I'm hopeful that the police will back off. As far as I can see no one is going to catch it from surfing and no lives are going to be lost from going for a surf. But as Freeride said, many people right now are losing their livelihoods and the odd surf goes a long way to help retain sanity and help your mental health
After a little thought, I wonder if this is the 'Great Pause' and not the 'Great Reset'; I'm seeing some nice things driving to essential appointments, eg families out with their kids for walk/ride/beach play, people doing work on their yard together, stuff getting mowed by the owners, people walking their dogs etc etc. People get to breathe (within distance rules). My son and I are surfing alone and it's been quite nice, so surfing is happening until lockdown.
Things like mortgages are likely to be paused, rents are to be paused maybe, certain repayments slowed/stopped - there will be support for casual workers, airlines paused, cruise ships paused. The money system seems to be backed with however much liquidity it will need; swiping and electronic ways of payment may take a preference to the old backstop of cash (though it is King). Supply chains take a hit and the medical system will be under severe stress (have them in your thoughts). Globalism has been paused, as the seamless flow of people and goods just got seamed. Overall, it's a kind of strange suspension of the quickening of the last 10 or 15 years of madness.
In hindsight we should have
............???
danced?
Here's a Poem
The Great Reset
I read the news, o boy
And though the news was rather sad
A crowd of people, stood and stared
I just had to look
The Great Reset, Part two
Reset, all types of shit
Greed, violence,
You sneeze on me
I take your head off.
The Great Reset, Part three
Rainy days and shit
The Great Reset, Part Three
It is a wasteland.
It is a play, it is called the The Great Reset.
My kitchen does suck;
Pangolin, cobra, fried bat
The world now suffers
Great haiku VJ!
Didn't mind the poem Mort, not sure about the rest.
I just listened to that interview about mental health that FR put up. Totally agree that this is going to become a huge issue and actually denying people the chance to surf at all will be counter productive .I go nuts after 3 or 4 days without a wave
A good thing to do each day while locked up is Yoga nidra., which is a guided relaxation technique where you lie down on a blanket on the floor and follow Swami Satyanandas instructions.
There are lots of guided yoga exercises on youtube which you might like to do prior to yoga nidra.
Brian Enos - Thursday Afternoon is excellent back ground music to have on in the house.
If anyone buys that garden soil from Aldi for their veggie gardens.
It works fine, but beware. If it dries out it turns into a brick and becomes strongly hydrophobic, to the point no amount of water will wet it through.
Don't let it dry out!
It will be the pine bark if that is in it.
Steve buying soil is the most shocking thing I've read this week.
just to top up a couple beds Stu.
You planted out?
Almost sorted. Peas, broccoli, silverbeet and all manner of leafy greens have been sown. In another bed I'm waiting for a last harvest of chilis and aubergines before I also switch over.
Realise now I shoulda had the seeds in the ground a month ago. Weather's been mild enough for germination.
March is the month.
Every day planted before the autumn equinox is gold.
I went the first week of March, almost got harvestable kale right now.
Dr Anthony Fauci unveils a mask that could save millions of lives.
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how does an organism 1000 times smaller than a human cell stop the most powerful nations on earth?
Because it is CLEVER.
As this fella explains it ain't dead and it ain't alive.
KT the arch degree