Great article expect an Elliston onslaught very soon.

That you Uppy?

PAGING UPLIFT TO THE FRONT DESK....PAGING UPLIFT.

I agree, great article and very relevent to me at this stage in my life.

You beat me to it your Worship. BB you've opened a can of worms here and as soon as he wiggles out of his bike shorts he'll be bangin' on about all things eliteness here.

Talk about click baiting.

Mick baiting?

Good read BB, but baiting Upshit like this? You must get paid by how many hits / comments your articles receive, surely.

Being a Bowen Therapist I have treated many a surfer for injuries and ailments from ankles, knees, backs, necks, shoulder and so much more and have fantastic results, as Bowen therapy gives the bodies system the kick it needs to repair and also gets firing patterns of muscles back in line( which can be a common causes of continuing pain and further injury).

Bowen therapy PFFT .

Gotta admit I surprised myself by recently joining a gym, something I thought I would never, never do.

But, I've been living in denial for the last fifteen years about how much water time I'm really getting (a problem exacerbated by running my own business, and having kids) - and even then a couple of short surfs a week isn't the most strenuous form of excercise to ward off the kilos.

I'm only a couple of weeks in, and feeling surprisingly good about it - although it seems (like most things) a good result at the gym will ultimately revolve around self-motivation (not just for the excersize, but dietary choices too).

I think : Re Bourne won't comment because then he won't be Off topic .
Then again we could get " a lesson " in THE science of Blax .....
" The entire reef SHOOK that day " , i've never felt more Amasing ....

Top work, blindboy. Excellent advice and observations my friend.

I'm 59, stayed in top surf shape all of these years. Ate right and practicing karate teka for decades. Never lifted weights, but work had heaps of physicality all the years.

I'm now suffering a 15mm ruptured disc from chronic everything. Suffered for a month on the floor, tried for a month what the doc recco'd, industrial strength naproxen for a month, uggg. Not about try the next doco suggestions, go the Neco Padaratz route steroid shots,... and surgery if those are not successful......

Anyone suffered anything similar? Any suggestions? What worked for you?

Yeh, great article. Some of the most important benefits are life quality. I am actually busy training people, but will bathe your eyes and ears a bit. Another surfer I know just headed for Indo after 3 months of intensive back rehab, and he's still only in his forties. Should be prime time. It was no surfing, and no work (not by his choice) for that time. He's gone from barely being able to lie down in agony, let alone walk, to squatting, running, etc, and felt great in his first paddles. To be honest, its bullshit though, the opposite to what I wanted, he should have had 6 months off at least, as he is in reality no where near strong enough to be safe with his back. Think of a supremely fit athlete, and how much time and effort, plus all the all day resources at their disposal, that they put in to rehabbing serious injuries. 6 - 12 months all day is standard. Yet the unfit public, who obviously can't do anything like that due to cost and commitments, expect a few week turn around. Hilarious. Plus, even when you show them, if left to heir own devices, the 'program', their interpretation of it is even more comical. That guy would fly from Adelaide every few weeks, and we would piss ourselves at what his 'form' had become. Even with DVD's to guide him. Its normal, as most people don't have a lot of good experience, and their old habits take a while to break. His alternative was a 28 grand back fusion, and shit loads of rehab anyway. I am working with another guy that has lived on the strongest, most damaging prescription pain killers, 3 times a day, and spent zillions, for as long as he can remember, and still grovelled at level 8 pain regularly. Yet after only 5 months of gym, he's tons fitter, and has reduced his pain killers to once a day at half dose, and has a totally different life, with real light at the end of the tunnel, where there was previously none.

There is no program, no diet, just a lifestyle of health and fitness. It can't end, or it just turns into the opposite.

Not to mention the love life. Hormones. Crucial.

As far as sporting performance or surfing, if you take a break, its easy to come back with practice. The truth is though, as much as fitness, a better body or vehicle, means better performance, you still have to apply it to practice of your chosen activity, ie surfing. The higher level you want, the more you need. Every athlete knows that.

Roller, you sound fit already and you would have heard this before but just get that stomach and core stronger. Also belly fat, I'm not sure if this applies to you but even a kilo extra on my guts and there is a good chance I'm going to hurt my back before too long. Stretching and getting rid of any inflammatory foods out of your diet will greatly improve your rehabilitation and chances of avoiding any further incidents. Sometimes the initial injury will heal but the pain remains due to chronic inflammation.

Personally I'd forget the back surgery , I've never seen it improve any bodies circumstance so far . I've even got a couple of mates that ended up addicted to painkillers as a bonus to go along with their physical disabilities.

Blowin, you write "Personally I'd forget the back surgery"...... Fully agree..... Yonks ago, a doc wanted to "fuse" some bones in my back....... After a long think about it, I said no thanks...... Known of other people that went that option, and it always end up worse.... I'd rather take it easy when it does flare up, and concentrate on a certain pilates regime a brilliant sports physio showed me..... Also used to pay her a visit every 3 months or so for a good kneading, plus acupuncture..... I wish she was down here atm. She's awesome....

Just celebrated my 57th on a Ments boat trip, solid 4'-8' all trip, old body was going real good until I cracked a rib freefalling on a set. Totally agree that strength is now a key to continued shortboard performance surfing, but needs to be combined with flexibility. I surf most mornings at local beachie, riding 6' thruster, keeps my timing sharp but is not enough of a workout to keep surfing at a level I am happy with. Have never lifted weights, hate gyms, but now do light weights and own body weight resistance work (free flowing movements) and Bikram hot yoga. Have also realised short, interval workouts are better than longer sessions which pound the old body, so soft sand running not road running, body surfing not pool laps. As for boards, a slight increase in volume, 1/16, 1/8 thicker or wider makes a big difference. In fact my big wave boards have come down from 6'8" to 6'3", shorter is more manoeuvrable as long as you can paddle in easy. Remember the mind (muscle memory) will put you in the right place, you just have to make sure the old body can take it, and accept that there will be aches and pains.

Roller,pilates yoga and building up your core strength,ive been down your path and its fucked but you need to take responsibility for your body cause at the end of the day no one gives a shit,except you.Dont have surgery,avoid cortisone and research everything.I used to have siatica when i was seventeen and ive seen chiropractors for years throwing money at em and they can help but you can do all that at home.Get hold of the book called" The back sufferers Bible "by Sarah Keyes and read it properly and understand your back,got me out of trouble with a blown disk and crawling on the ground.Havent been to a chiro for ten years after going every 2nd week .so it all comes down to stretching ,strength and understanding your body.Good luck,its all up to YOU.Believe in yourself cause you can turn this around.

Yeh, great article. I am actually busy, ah, training, people, but will bathe your eyes
and ears and any other bits that you let me lay my, erm, sponge on. Another bloke I
bathe just headed home in his tighty whities after 3 months of intensive back and
front sponging. What a prime time we had. There was no time for real smoothing,
just sponge work (by mutual choice) all of that time. He was barely able to lie down
in the bath, but he said it sure felt great when I smacked him with the paddles. To be
honest, its though, the opposite to what he and I really wanted. He shoulda had 6
months off at least, as he is in reality nowhere near enough smooth. Bugger kept turning over on his back and shrieking when I came into the bathroom, wanting his mum, running outta the house. Think of a supremely buff athlete, and how much time and effort, plus all the all-day resources that I put into rubbing, swabbing and serious shaving. 6 -12 months all day is standard. Yet the great unwashed public, who obviously can't do anything like that due to cost and commitments, expect a few weeks’ turn around. Hilarious.

Plus, even when you show them the, um, 'program', if left to their own devices, their
interpretation of it is even more comical. I fly guys fly in every few weeks, and we
piss ourselves at what their 'form' has become. Even with DVD's to guide them. It’s
normal, as most people don't have a lot of good experience, and their old habits take a while to break. My alternative is a three-blade Gillette Fusion Proglide, and loads of bubble bath. I am working with a guy who used the most damaging Woolworths brand disposable brand razors and no-name bleach 3 times a day, and spent zillions, for as long as he can remember, but was still at level 8 regrowth and discoloration. Yet after only 5 months of Mick’s Bath Time, he's tons smoother with real whiteness at the end of his tunnel, where there was previously darkness.

As far as performance or appearances are concerned, a better or bigger bumper in
your vehicle means better performance. The higher level you want, the better razor
and bleach you need. Everyone knows that.

There is no 'program', just a lifestyle. Not to mention the love life. Hormones. And lotsa Viagra. Crucial

Micks bath time ha ha

No worries BB, thanks.!

I would love to know how the Nematode worm which lives to 20 days, has anything related to humans the age of fifty, which seems to be when the trend to reduced muscle mass and reduced muscle efficiency increases its pace.
Interesting.

Nice work BB. Also nice post Uplift - restrained, cordial and informative.

Dead right BB (another great article, when is the book being released?) and also Mick Perry (this must be the old farts club). Lucky if I get in the water twice a week also and Indo once a year so I need to train at least 3 times a week to keep at a decent level, meaning a short board in hollow enough waves. They are only 45 minute sessions of upper body, core, balance and stretching but it makes all the difference at 54 going on 55. I am super light which I think is in my favour (63 kilos). Learn't not to pound the body as well together with doing every exercise correctly. Had to go to a phyiso because my shoulders were all out of wack and stiffened right up. Once they got me straight again I feel really good now (touch wood) however it did take a while . One thing you learn at my age, an injury takes forever to get over.

Some of the biggest issues in training/building muscle are lack of clear intention or goal, lack of clear plan of how to reach that target, and the attitude required to do so.

So many people waste so much time and money spinning their wheels, or wandering around aimlessly in the gym... and often year after year. Many view weights as some sort of miraculous, almost dangerous device that the mere handling of will result in massive, muscle bound results. Hilarious.

'I only want to tone up... I dont want to get massive muscles!'

'Oooohhh, gggeeee whhillakers, we don't want that, I'll be really, really, really carefull to be sure that you don't get massively musclebound and powerfull.'

Which is a polite way of saying, are you fucking joking, you would have to slave your guts out for years to build any type of muscle, and as you have never been able to stick at a few pushups and Freida Nureondoiglansturtzer stretches for longer than a few weeks, it won't remotely be a problem.

Like anyone that is truly successful at something, they pour a lot of themselves into it, or make the most of the time that they allocate to it. Imagine deciding that you wanted to learn a language in say 6 months, or a year, and a few times a week you just flicked through a few books or a dictionary. And every few weeks, skipped a few weeks. Even felt you needed more variety, so kept changing languages every few weeks. Unless you were a savant in that area, you would be doomed.

You need to have a system that is progressive, that has clear targets, and that you understand perfectly. Just one hour, twice a week is plenty to get strong, and build and keep muscle, if you know what you are doing, and use your time wisely and efficiently. Especially if you are surfing heaps, or really active in other activities. You must truly understand that all exercise is a stress, and that you adapt when you aren't exercising. Otherwise marathon runners and sprinters would run over the finish line fitter than ever. And if you held a gun at their head and forced them to keep running, they would end up super human. The reality is that they finish exhausted, and they would drop dead if you forced them to run on. Which is comical in the distance running world, where they love to promote the persistance running argument as to why humans were born to run, and then turn around and run themselves into physical, injury riddled, androgenous, inflexible wrecks.

Never forget about hormones. There a millions of them, and they switch on absolutely every function of your body. In a glaring extreme, sprinters, marathon runners. Both run, yet entirely different hormone profiles and results. Be sure of the result you seek from your training.

If you suddenly saw, or were told something that you felt was extremely sad, the moment you thought/felt that, a response occurs. Maybe tears form, maybe depression, maybe rage. Being, energy, particles, atoms, chemicals move. Unconsciously much goes on, that might render you helpless, or might drive you into action. That is your most powerful tool, your best weapon in the gym. Athletes don't think like the public. In one sense they are lucky. They have a truly powerful reason to train. Most people have a pitiful, a weak one. One that is easily over ruled, as it always has been, by even the likes of a barrage of TV commercials, or a bag of twisties, a tin of ale. Not training has literally no consequences. Fucked back, overweight, unfit, bad heart, so what, still got food, a roof, the job, wife, kids, no real biggie. Doomed. You have to have a genuine goal, make training become an ingrained habit, or you won't be around the getting fit stuff long. Not saying thats easy, but the attitude is crucial. The more you understand the better. Look at babies. We are all wired for, our number one drive is, avoid pain, move to comfort. You must use that to your advantage. Language. 'I'll miss out on fun, and do the fucking training then.' Doomed, fighting a no win battle. Major internal stress. Even athletes that think like that crack in the end and become slobs. Turn it around. Its your gift, the one thing that you can control for free, thoughts. Love the thought of being in deluxe shape, being able to work hard, hate the thought of the opposite. Go with the flow.

Concentrate for one hour. Think about that word, focus yourself. One hour, love it, love that that's all it takes. Fire up, be deluxe. 'Yes, now, here's the burn, awesome, how bullshit am I, welcome to my world, I'm even stronger, watch this.' Being, energy, particles, atoms, chemicals unconsciously are commanded to move. You feel strong, you feel up, you get the result, enhanced performance, no matter what. Going with the flow. The public tends to choose... 'Fuck no, not fucking legs, can't we do something else... how long is this gonna fucking take... shit its fucking burning, I'm fucked, fuck this!' Being, energy, particles, atoms, chemicals move, you feel shithouse, weak, performance is down. Fighting the flow. Doomed.

It all starts in your head. Its a choice, always. Love me beers! Love me chicken puffs! Love me fitness! Love me health. Don't be bitch slapped by a twistie.

First up great theme Blindboy, I think a lot of home truths and gives anyone over the age of 25 something to think about.

Some great suggestions Uplift, Blowin, Sheep dog and Simba.

Roller - I'm a Musculoskeletal Physiotherapist so thought I'd throw my 2c in.
Disc injuries can be some of the most debilitating injuries we see in clinical practice but can and often do settle over time. The big thing to know is that a disc CANNOT BE FIXED (without surgical means)……noone can 'push it back in' but it can settle over time and you can learn to MANAGE it so that you can live a healthy, active and relatively normal life.
A disc rupture or tear can be from trauma but is usually something that happens gradually from your teenage years onwards as a result of wear and tear, sport, work or genetics. It is a 'normal' part of the ageing process to have disc degeneration but sometimes people suffer acute episodes such as the one you have. Intervertebral Discs have a very poor blood supply but given the right environment (limit your bending, twisting , lifting and sitting) and your pain should settle and function return to normal. Many of these cases take 6-8 weeks minimum but can last for several months if severe enough.

As for Spinal surgery. I would suggest that this is your last resort. It can be very successful and in some patients completely necessary, but is also expensive and no guarantee.

The best thing you can do for your back initially is MOVE. Sitting down (longer than 30 mins at a time)loads up the already injured disc. The 2 best activities you can do is walking and swimming. This should be done daily. Even if it is only 15 mins or so to begin with.

Pain, inflammation and disuse cause your deep abdominal musculature (transverses abdominus or your CORE) to shut down. So even if your pain settles and your movement returns you are at great risk of re-injuring your lower back if this is not addressed. Your local physiotherapist can guide you how to best start this, but in the medium to longterm I would suggest regular Clinical Pilates and or Yoga to work on this.

It will seem a little biased but if you haven't already you would do well to find a good local physio (ask around friends, family etc as your problem is a common one) to get a good assessment and plan for conservative treatment before you begin to consider cortisone or surgery.

Good Luck :)

Uppity, great post old chap.

This time I actually read it to the end and re-read it for good neasure.

Deluxe stuff, cheers.

Six years ago I had the opportunity to go to Mexico along with wife & kids. A highlight was to surf Barra among other places if possible. The back had been a bit stiff so I thought a trip to the local Chiro before leaving would loosen things up - bad decision. A couple of sessions of crunching introduced me to the world of sciatica. Mild, but a companion to my back stiffness.
In Hualtuco my missus found an advert for some US trained guy who could fix such things - naturally & gently. The first session was hard work & I was feeling pretty ordinary by the end. "This is all part of the therapy - you will feel worse before you feel better. See you tomorrow". That night I couldn't bend to get into or out of the cab. The next session felt more like an exorcism which saw me pass out twice with my 15 yo son having to come in & pick my limp body off the floor. The "therapist" panicked & called his army doctor mate to make sure I wasn't going to kark it in his rooms. I think he might have been injected me with something. I also recall having an acupuncture needle inserted squarely in the top of my scone. Did I mention I hadn't taken my board out of it's cover at this stage?
After lying motionless for about 8 hours in the hotel room we called the hotel doctor - resplendent in his crisp white jacket & converses. "Ah yes, my friend in town has given me plenty of business". He loaded me with some obscure drugs over the next two days to the point where I felt no pain and finally had the one surf of the trip - mind you I pissed blood that night.
Once back home I spent months at & around level 8-9 debilitating pain & sooo close to giving in & getting surgery. I gave the anti-inflams one last blast & started moving - exercise & yoga, lots of core stuff (which I still do - religiously). It took another 6 months before surfing again, starting back on wider, floatier craft.
I am 55 now, did a boat trip last year and surf at least 3-4 times a week. I have also just put a deposit on a 5'11" JS to go with my 5'8" Mayhem. I refuse to go to the dark side of "logging" or whatever.
The lessons here are:-
Stay away from Chiros who crunch bones & California-trained Mexican "therapists" of oriental persuasion. Surgery is last resort. The best advice is KEEP MOVING. If you stop & rest you will seize up, all that pain will return & YOU WILL GET OLD.

Cheers, Isn't It great when old buggers carry on about their injuries? (I had to tell someone - my wife isn't listening anymore.)

Great stretching/warm up routine that will benefit everyone.

This one is a bit more advanced. Keep proper form when doing so,

A few people have mentioned chiropractors - big con in my opinion.

Tried a few things to help with a neck and shoulder injury which took ages to fully clear up due to needing to work and eventually tried acupuncture which started working after the first session and went on to sort it out completely.

Many think acupuncture is hocum but at least you know they have a goal of fixing the ailment. With chiro it's never ending, you can go for an 'adjustment' every week your whole life if you want to. They even try to get kids under 10 started and do family deals. I found it sometimes felt better for a few days but more often threw up other niggles which of course they can fix with more tweaking. Dodgy as.

The problem with chiropractors is they unsubtly whack things back into place, usually cold - not much warm up. These things took many years to get out of place. And guess what? They fall back out of place within no time - hence the repeated visits.

Bowen did help to an extent, but you have to be patient and at least it's gentle. A good Bowen therapist will get you some results with only one session. Osteos aren't too bad as they tend to massage & warm up the surrounding muscles before adjusting. You find with these guys the crunch of the chiro is more like a little click if at all.
The main thing is to gain muscle strength & support around the problem - add a bit of flexibility and keep it up.

I can totally support Simba's recommendation for "The Back Sufferers's Bible" by Sarah Key. She is a Sydney trained physiotherapist who works in Sydney and London. She has been the Queen's physio since 1983 and now is the physio for the whole Royal Family. The book has a thankful foreword by Prince Charles.
It is a very good book. Different back conditions clearly explained with appropriate therapeutic exercises. I had some mild problems which it has resolved. It was recommended by a person who had a chronic back problem and the medical profession, after all the usual therapies, was only offering surgery with a doubtful prognosis. 'This book saved me' he said. No surgery and his back is now healthy.

I agree with sou-Wester, I have found osteopaths alot better than chiro.. infact I went to a chiro for a number of years for my neck and it only made things worse, he wasn't interested in giving me stretches or looking holistically at the issue at all.. just a 5 minute consult with crunch and then out to reception to swipe the credit card..

btw there are guys alot older than slater still surfing well http://espn.go.com/action/surfing/news/story?page=shaun-tomson-interview

So consensus is Chiro's and Surgery are a waste of time.
This seems to be the majority feeling here.
What if you have torn a muscle or tendon off the bone, which I know a few people have and have had to get surgery. I suppose that is different to discs and spinal which is no guarantee as Staitey has mentioned.

I have a friend who has been through disaster after disaster with back surgery. Not saying its representative of all but in my sample group of 1, the statistics are quite damning.

Uplift: I have started doing the Stronglift 5x5 workout to maintain general health. It's simple, quick and structured. Any particular issues with this? I know its popular but part of me wonders if its not a little too simple.

K Slater looks supremely fit. Even he were a 20 something year old. Funny thing is im pretty sure he has no regular strength or conditioning training regime. From what I have read is that he just maintains an extremely healthy diet (which is much publicised) and obviously surfs regularly.

Wouldn't be surprised if he actually does have a strict cross training regime but keeps it secret for competitive advantage or something other.

Regardless interesting case study on surfing at a high level into your forties.

As can be quickly seen, lower back injuries are commonplace in surfing, and are a hallmark of western culture in general. Its kind of amusing that such a massive conglomerate of industries revolve around the little ol’ lower back. God loves a joke...

Think about some facts. Glutes are the most powerful muscles in the body. Lats, upper back are the biggest most powerful muscles in the upper body. In a similar scenario, imagine the world’s best high performance car designer putting whatever amasingly powerful, tough, major horsepower, unbelievable performance donk one end, and a brute strength, high performance, bullet proof super diff the other. Now, what to join the two with, what to marry them together with to make the most of all that? Hey, I know, let’s use a piece of 1” poly pipe! Even better, I’ve got a piece of garden hose, join that fucker up! Ludicrous. Is nature really that... well... thick? Of course not. The reality is, nature has joined the two muscle groups with a ridiculously powerfull structure. Well, that’s how its supposed to be.

But, in the western culture we treat lower backs like a feeble, pitiful structure that needs to be nurse-maided throughout life. In our culture core pretty much mistakenly equals abdominal structures, which are not the prime mover, the powerhouse when lifting, but are important in bracing. Back muscles lift, back muscles extend the spine, and they have the potential to quickly develop ridiculous strength and power. All the above examples are an extreme at one end of the scale. The other extreme end is the typical western citizen. Somewhere in the middle, but still miles away, is average back strength, where bad backs are rare, and caused by real trauma.

That Stronglifts routine has some good points, but the glaring fault in my eyes is the lack of decompressing style exercises. All of the exercises compress the spine. Which in our culture happens all day long as well. To partly address welly also, that is one of our culture’s massive bungles. All decompressing style of activity disappears in early childhood. The situation is worsening, as even children are ever more restricted from using climbing bars, monkey bars, trees etc. By the time people are in their twenties and thirtees, constant compression, as well as lack of much activity begins to take its toll. It then magnifies even more, snowballing into middle age, elderly years. What should be high performance, powerfull structures, resistant to compression, and the opposite, make the poly pipe and garden hose scenario look awesome. Restoring, stretching and nurse-maiding a piece of garden hose can only result in a restored, stretched, nurse-maided piece of garden hose, which when fitted between the bodies most powerful engines is prone to snapping and warping like a piece of garden hose.

Awesome! Thank you.

Hey uplift, that last youtube post of Pyrros Dimes lifting 392.5 kg for real?unbelievable,talk about spine compression.

...

Gidday simba, yeh, pretty amasing, such perfect technique. I like to use it because it demonstrates the amasing strength potential of the lower back, and can address common misconceptions re weight lifting/training. The only way he gets that over his head is core strength, starting from glutes. He pulls/ explodes off the floor with amasing flexibility, power and speed, and then has a split second to get under it in a position that most people that talk about core strength and flexibity can't get into with no weight at all. From there his glutes start the process again and he can only drive the weight a small distance before having a split second to get under it again, and again drive out. So much speed, skill and flexibility involved, that is mistakenly not normally associated with weight lifting, and that is truly functional and transferable to many sports. Hence the lift's popularity among elite athletes.

mk1, I haven't much time and am working late, but quickly, my suggestion is, alternate squatting and deadlifting, only doing one exercise each workout. On deadlift day, swap chinups for rows, using negatives if not strong enough. Likewise on squat day substitute dips for bench, and same if not strong enough. Both woork the same muscles groups, just as hard, maybe even harder, but are decompressing. Finish each workout with alternating 3 sets of hyperextensions and hanging knee raises which address whole core and decompression. Staity raised bloodflow, finish by decompressing and gorging your lower back with blood. Promotes, well in fact is the only way, crucial for healing. Hang every day when warmed up, ie arvo's.

Remember you aren't trying to be a weightlifting champion, you are trying to strengthen and condition yourself. Rule one, train to resist injury, not injure yourself. Form is crucial, or many exercises that are awesome become dangerous, or ineffective. I wish I had more time for that, its crucial, like surfing and judging a wave in the wrong wind/tide/swell etc.

Again, think about the different results between marathoners and sprinters. It, building muscle, obviously has nothing to do with taking more strides, or training for longer. Its all about tension, the bodies perception of tension, and how hard you are working. Slow can equal just as much tension as fast, and is much safer and more productive for beginners. You can't fool your body, it knows when you let tension off, and effectively rest, and responds accordingly.

understand everyones reticence with regard to surgery for back issues. it should be a last resort. but it can work. after a decade of disk issues causing regular occurrences of immobility and pain. and trying physio, core exercises, pilates etc. surgery changed my life. like everyone else here have to work at maintaining balance, flexibility and strength but no longer have any issues with regard to reoccurring and debilitating pain and immobility. understand that not everyone will agree but if you have chronic issues and have tried many forms of treatment then speak to a couple of surgeons and throw their prognosis into the mix re making a decision on treatment

BB do you believe in Yowies , Yetis or Big Foot...?

I read your article about the Nematode BB, maybe have a quiz at this one...?

http://www.yowiehunters.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=4318

It all has to do with muscles, my apologies if people take offence. :)

Quote BB

"Since we split from the apes about 7 million years ago we have lost many adaptations to life in the trees"

We honestly don't know that BB...
Not one person in this world has evidence of this at all.

Thanks Uplift for the input. I have written it down.

Matt

I keep reading (not in this thread) that back pain is unheard of in developing worlds? I wonder then if this is true then how much of our back pain could be readily fixed by adopting more from developing nations. i.e. could we fix our back pain by just sitting, shitting, eating, and sleeping on the floor? traditional japs do it and they are developed. is it our "human verticalness" really to blame for back pain or is it rather our reluctant to ever use the floor for anything other than walking on.

the "chair" used to be only associated with status and only the regal had a chair- long time back. hell my mate told me that in old days in Telstra only the "bosses" had a chair with 5 wheels and all the lineys weren't allowed to have 5 wheels and could only have 4 wheels. it was to the point that he had his "5 wheeled chair" confiscated because he might have been mistaken for upper management :) - only 800 years has passed between my first comment and my Telstra mate's story but how little thinking has changed.

is the pursuit of comfort the very cause of our discomfort?

Simba , that's the combined total from his snatch clean n jerk ... Uppys favourite .

Yeh happyaaS, lots of things our culture has adopted are contributors to a contemporary, generally fairly unfit, often obese (epidemic is the officially adopted term) society (the queen excluded of course). My wife is from a fairly remote area in the pacific. Her grandparents are from a truly remote island, with only a few permanent families living there, although others occasionally visit if its calm/safe enough. Her grandfather is over ninety and like a piece of steel. He, and the rest of the community lug rocks, timber, coconuts, sacks of rice, pigs, etc on their backs up and down steep cliffs with no problem at all. There are lots of similar islands there where the lifestyle is nothing like ours. Physical fitness and strength is prized, expected., No one knows what a typical western bad back even means.

A glaring difference (one of plenty) is this. In our culture kids are called upon to do things the majority of adults can't, like climb trees. There that would be seen as cruel, weak, allowing a much weaker kid to be forced to do what adults, men and women should do. People sleep on the ground, on mats woven from palm leaves. People get tons of sleep. If you want bamboo, you climb the mountain and cut it and carry it down. If you want water you get it from the wells. People carry loads that would be OH&S life sentences for miles. Life is much less stressfull though, relaxation is valued.

My job enables me to see a wide range of the population, and assess their situation. Most people are walking stress bombs. Deadlines... amasing word. Their minds never stop. That has a dramatic effect on hormones. Our culture has suddenly, recently, extremely and dramatically altered the life our ancestors lived for a comparable extremely long time. To our detriment. When animals, birds and insects are subjected to the same scenario, they collapse, literally go mad. There's many things, to consider, circadian rhythms, stress with no end, activity type and level, food.

Look at the education system. Ours has the aim of providing the workforce. Right at the age when every particle of childrens being are telling them to move, to explore, to socialise, to make noise, to sleep, etc, etc, etc, all are systematically crushed out of them. 'Stop fidgeting, stop running, sit down, be still, stop climbing, don't move, stay awake, be quiet, shut up, give me that note, wake up, no you can't go to the toilet, stop eating, stop, stop... fucking stoooooooooppppppppppp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the time they are adults they literally have lost touch with their innermost messages, themselves. Great little worker ants. Except we aren't ants. So many problems arise. 'Bad', naughty backs are just one.

I like snatch's southy, but much more technical, much more room to go wrong for the average trainer interested in strength/fitness improvement. Most people as I said, can't get into the basic clean and jerk low position with no weight. My guide for average strength, before allowing clean and jerk with just the empty bar at first, is body weight squats and deadlifts in perfect form for a dozen reps. Perfect form is the key.

H

Thought I'd throw in my two bits...
I ruptured a disc 12 years ago when I was 37. Basically work related, way too much heavy lifting building post and beam and mud brick houses...yeah I'm a professional green designer and builder. I did regular Yoga from when I was 21-early 40's and was actually going out with my Yoga teacher at the time that it blew. Surfed heaps - at least 5-6 days a week. I was really flexible, but due to an undiagnosed knee injury never bent at the knees because it killed them, so it was easier to lift straight legged.....duhhhh

After trying a heap of methods to strengthen etc, found I couldn't get past the regular pain incurred so decided to go in for a micro-discectomy...easy op they said, walk out the next day they said....failed to tell me anything in follow up and left me to drive 1 1/2 hrs home to a regional coastal town with no support and no pain-relief options. Guess I was naive, but I thought I was pretty hard and didn't need anything to deal with the pain....man was I wrong!!!! I'm yet to be able to explain the pain I incurred at that time, but it was all I could do to lay on the floor, screw getting up. Knees buckled involuntarily and I was down no matter what I tried to do. Took a week and a half to get hold of the doctor who freaked when he heard what was happening and eventually suggested heavy drugs to get past it .

Doctors are generally pretty shit at giving any broad-ranbging perspective from my experience. Physios, Osteopaths and more holistic practitioners give a way broader perception of what's going on from my experience.

So, now I'm nearly 50, had to have an MRI last July after a month in Bali surfing and hanging with the family and finding the pain relief drugs weren't working. My lower disc that was shaved has gone, pretty much bone on bone now, and the two discs above it are more prolapsed than ever... I rarely use drugs, choosing to move my body if possible. Biggest issue I'm incurring now is that because I've gone back to Uni to do Architecture - bloody longest course in the world, I'm stuck in the office heaps doing assignments or pricing jobs etc, etc... MOVING is key!!! Stay Mobile

I found riding a SUP got me back into the surf last year. Couldn't lay on a board but could stand up. They bore me pretty quickly, but the challenge of riding them is a buzz and I've gotten down to an 8'6" Pro JP now. Just don't surf the things amongst the crowds, guys...but they seriously help those of us with crap backs.

Now I'm working on doing Pilates and truing to get back to pushing myself with some exercises. Life's super busy with young family, work and Uni...but I still love my surfing and plan to do so as long as I can. I've got a 4 year old son that I have to keep up with and hope to surf with him sooner than later...good inspiration!!!

Im sorry but GYM's are just so fuckin gay and boring. Why dont you just go outside chop a fuckin tree with an axe , split some wood by hand, get on a push bike put it in hardest gear and bike up a hill, etc etc etc . Go out side and actually engage in real life fitness and strength training. GYM = YAWN.

Your story is really common earthbound. So many people slog it out day after day, landscapers, brickies, builders, nurses, carers, plumbers, electricians, furniture removalists, the list is huge. Stuffed backs, knees, shoulders are really common. You've gotta feel for them. Sadly, nowadays, literally every person that comes in for Personal Training has some issue or another.

Unfortunately, whilst doctors are good at what they do, they have little idea on training and nutrition and exercise, rehabilitation or fitness. I train doctors and they are a bit embarrassed to admit the actual amount of training, and experience in those areas that they receive. Its laughable. Plus, the nutrition guide taught to many has been virtually turned on its head anyway. One friend in Elliston I mentioned before, that I sent to have his back fixed by a friend, is a doctor, and top skin cancer specialist, and he was clueless in those areas. They are inbetween a rock and a hard place though, as the public expect them to have all the answers. Plus like many these days, they are swamped, especially keeping up with all the new drugs, and procedures, and have little time. And like any field there are good and not so good practioners.

The not bending at the knees thing is what most people do to lift things, injury or not. Little kids are expert lifters, adults 'learn' to be lazy, bad habits. Watch a little kid, 2, 3 years old pick things up. They squat, they use their butts. Whoever trained you should have been onto your knee straight up, and designed your training around correcting it, fixing it. I've blabbed on heaps in other threads about the importance of understanding hinging, the basic movement that makes us uniquely human. It is the most functional thing anyone should perfect, and would have saved you shitloads of trauma, and made your work easier. Even grannies can be taught to do it, and should. They even lift things relentlessly, grandkids, pets, books, vaccuums, shopping etc. In itself, when learned through stages, it, hinging, is a deluxe rehab tool.

Your situation highlights blindboy's reasoning, not just for surfing performance, but quality of life. As you say, movement is crucial, thats what muscles are for, movement and support. No movement, no use, equals no blood flow, equals atrophy, and no healing. In the extreme, think rubber band on animals tails. No blood, no tail, skin, bone, nerves, muscles all croak. The truth is, in cases like yours, if the disc has disintegrated beyond repair, and it is bone on bone, an op is your best bet. I hate having to accept that an op is necessary for clients, but sometimes it is. Here's some good info.

http://www.center4orthopedics.com/index.php/conditions/herniated-disc/

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2011/11/prweb8995590.htm

But as you learned that has to be backed up by rehab. The results can be awesome. I have worked with and rehabbed people with cages and artificial discs inserted into delicate areas, that is, necks, people with rods, screws, plates, fusions, bulging discs, torn discs, spondylosis, other types of athritis, even pain that has been undiagnosable. Discs can and do repair. Most people just don't know how to, or can't give them a chance to. Firstly though, simultaneously, you have to sort out the knee/squatting scenario. Or else it will be an action replay. Repairing, rehab is actually super simple in one sense. Blood, gorging an area with blood promotes healing. The nervous system has to be healed and strengthened too. Patterns have to be changed. Its great showing people how strong their problematic, unconscious, ingrained movement patterns are, and how they can be totally changed. They have to be to effect rehab/repair. Dramatic strengthening has to simultaneously occur whilst the above are happening. So, in one sense its easy. The trick is knowing how to do all the above. The good news is, there is always, always, absolutely always a way to do it. Pain is the perfect guide. You just need to find what in your unique set up that you can do that addresses all of the above. Decompression is crucial for discs. So is not reinjuring, not promoting scarring.

And don't forget hormones. Your training and nutrition must promote an anabolic, a growing, thriving, healing state. Its why many athletes resort to drugs and risk death and prosecution. You don't have to if you know what you are doing. Again, for a glaring example, look at marathon running and sprinting. Both running. One is anabolic, one is catabolic.

And shop around, ask to speak to people about their results dealing with practioners in whatever field.

Further to the above, results, means results. So if someone says yeh, this is great, it fixed my knee, and you say, lets go for a run, and they say, can't, it hurts my knee, the actual result is, a fucked knee. On that scenario, also be sure the person actually did the full, 100% committed rehab. Many do stuff all, so can't say whether it worked or not, and blame the practioner.

Nice work Uppity, You're shining in your knowledge which is great for so many of us.

Last night I stirred the pot with BB about evolution, with monkeys hanging from trees etc. So I put in a stupid link about Yowies being flesh and blood....?
This was myself being as silly as an Nematode worm, as it has nothing to do with 50 year olds muscles depleting with age and we have to be more mobile...?

The worm that lives 20 days... The Nematode...? I honestly don't understand how scientists can prove this let alone compare it to humans.
The computer these days put so much misinformation into peoples brain that they think it is true.
Link after Link.........

The company I was working for last year brought in a back specialist to give a talk to everybody to reduce injuries. It was very educational but the part that worried me was what happens as we age. The stuff the discs in the spine are made of turns chalky as we get older, there's nothing we can do about it, except know it and try to be careful by lifting with a straight back so that the discs are compressed evenly. When the spine is curved the disc becomes wedge shaped and can get squeezed out of position. Probably a bad explanation, but I know what I mean haha.
As far as gyms go I'm with you Inzider, boring as a wet week in Whyalla. That was until I found a boxing gym. Best general fitness thing going, doesn't build a lot of muscle, it's just good fitness and core strength. The good thing is it's fun so I don't feel I'm dragging my arse down the gym, I wanna go.

Over 50 and just been surfing 6am to 3pm sessions in Indo. Largely gym preparation after never having been to them regularly before. Mostly I did 25 minute sessions in lunch time focussing 80% on paddle muscles. I worked them (no 20 reps and then wander around for a bit and chat) getting up to 500 reps on fairly low weights without a break thinking about paddling over sneaker sets as my motivation. . I walked fast 50 minutes a day (to and from my car at work) Short and simple program meant it was easy to fit in, not boring and the focus on arms gave me paddle power, popup speed and confidence. My arms look better than they did in my 20's.

If you lose you paddle power surfing becomes so much harder - getting waves, take off etc.

Fortunately no significant injuries over the years (gave up footy for surfing at 14!) and I have learned to protect my lower back which pinches occasionally by instinctively avoiding fast twisting etc. I have also kept the weight off. For the moment I honestly think I can still improve my surfing over what I did 30 years ago in good waves - mainly having seen some video and spotted some obvious areas to improve. A good feeling.

But I am surrounded by friends with knee, hip and back problems a lot of which can be traced to a mix of genetics, contact sport and trade type jobs.

Look after yourself, the payoff can be things like maintaining your day to day surf enjoyment and having surf trips into your 40s, 50s and 60s when most people are stuck on the couch.

Gidday happyasS. Think about levers, force, wear and tear, longevity. The kids are unconsciosly using the most proficient, plus safest pattern. Pre built in. Western culture in general 'builds' it out, so, the fucked lower back industry exsists. Look at all of these images.

The further out in front the weight, be it your head, or whatever, the more pressure, wear and tear on the joint. Rule one, training prevents, not induces injury. Look at your biggest strongest, most powerful muscles, which includes lower back. Glutes, quads, hamstrings, lower back. Abs brace. That is your 'core'. What bones/limbs/joints do the muscles move. Glutes and hamstrings prime move hips, quads and hamstrings (flexion) prime move knees, erectors drive spine. Abs, brace. The importance of hamstrings can quickly be seen. We simultaneously hinge at the hip, knee, spine for maximum power and efficiency, and safety/best leverage. Keep powerhouse quads well and truly in the equation too.

You mentioned chairs, stuffed backs. Keep flexibility in the equation. My wife can sit/ squat like those pictures all day. That's how the people on the very remote island that I mentioned 'sit'. So, when talking about 'core', that is our true core, the core that all elite athletes realise is our power generator. How to generate maximum power. Hinge. Learn about the stretch reflex, reflex stretch, whatever you want to call it (hence plyometrics craze). Imagine you suddenly had to jump as high as you could. No straight legs. You would bend/hinge like an olympic lifter, load up, recruit as much power/leverage as possible, and explode. Functionality.

Can that guy surf ?

'Can that guy surf ? '

Has that answered happyasS's question?

Not sure if that " dan " guy can surf ...... But he looks like rhino .

This is a great thread with very diverse ideas and comments.
One thing to remember is that everyone is different.Their structure, posture, build etc all contribute how they cope with injury. Especially back related.
I think you need to be open to all types of treatment hopefully finding one that works for you.
I am 58 and surfed since I was 15. Unfortunately I also also played aussie rules from age 10 to 40. Knee and ankle recons and torn muscles and broken bones all come back to bite you as you age. I have a terrible back which causes constant aggravation. But I am told that my desk job that has me sat my arse all day is main culprit. As discussed compression of the spine is a killer. It causes a myriad of back related aches + pains.
I am 6'2" and 96kg. Pretty big boy. To keep surfing I work out 3-4 times a week.
Free weights and core work the go, but I find push ups the best.
I do 500 each session and I find it helps me retain paddling power the best.
In regards to maintenance I use do use a chiro every month but this may not be for everyone. I have "loose" discs that slip out, particularly when twisting. A chiro will get these back in place but as mentioned earlier in this forum they can go out just as easily.
This is where it is essential to strengthen the muscles around the affected area to aid in support. My particular back problem excludes me from sit ups. Kills me!! so I dont do them. Modify your exercise to your own needs.
And dont be frightened as you get older to convert to a higher volume fish or a longer board. Whatever keeps you in the water and able to catch waves. Just dont stop cause ya cant do airs or cut backs on a dime. There is more to enjoying your surf than radical maneuvers. Just keep surfing. The paddling is great conditioning for your back muscles.

Holy fuck 500 push ups a session........ typo 50 ?
post some pics of that torso ol boy biceps

No typo udo, but will say it done 100 warm up and 2 reps of 200. The old body aint what it used to be.

Fucking fine effort gramps legendary workout

Uplift, the pics of people squatting, just hanging out...I've never stopped squatting like that since I was kid (now 40), and I gotta say the comments I've got over the years about how strange a position people think the squat is to take have been numerous and regular. When I tell em that I find it relaxing, they think I'm fucking nuts.

Yeh trippegreenfield that position takes so much pressure off of the lower back. If you can imagine doing the same thing, but reaching up with arms and holding onto something about door knob height, ie pole, rail, even end on to an open door with each hand gripped to each handle on each side of the door, and then just letteng yoursllf totatally relax, round your spine over, let glutes sink into heels, looser and looser for around a minute, its an awesome relieving stretch for people with back pain. If you did that, and this next exercise, when your back feels stiff sitting oldboy, it would really help.

This is a cat arch, cat/cow style of thing. Its really simple and safe, even if you are in pain, but don't underestimate how helpfull it is. It would be good for you oldboy. This video is a pretty good demo.

Do 25 continuous reps in total. The first 5 should be really small range of motion up and down, then the next 5 should be about half way of your range of motion up and down, then the next five about three quarters of your range of motion up and down. By then you will feel much looser, warmed up, so the next 5 sould be full range of motion. When you curve your back up towards the ceiling, try to imagine really stretching up, trying to touch your spine to the roof/ceiling etc. Then relaxe, reverse the movement, and arch your belly button down towards the floor. Don't strain in this direction, give a nice arch, but don't force it in this direction. Then do 5 more exactly the same, except when you are stretching/curving your spine up to the ceiling, suck your abs/stomach up into your spine also. Then relaxe tour abs, and arch your belly button down towards the floor the same as the previous 5. Doing 25 continuous reps in total. Take about 2 -3 secs each movement up, then the same down. Nice and fluent and smooth. Think of every vertebra moving like a concertina. Think of blood and fluid moving around your spine.

Remember your spine means right into the top of your neck, and right into the tailbone. So neck and tailbone/hips should move in unison with the spine as per the video. This should be the first part of any activity warmup also, including when surfing. Do first thing in the morning, its perfectly safe to do if cold and stiff, then middle of the day, or any time your back is tight from sitting. Then again in the evening.

Your blood flow, flexibility/range of motion and nervous system, or mind muscle link will get better and better, promoting healing also.

I'm gonna try the first exercise you describe in the squat next time my back gives me trouble - got a fucked disc between L3/L4 from a work accident a few years back.

The cat arch, that's part of my yoga standard routine, it's also the best stretch when the disc is giving me issues. After a few arches, I'll get a 'pop' in the lower spine and the tension goes with instant relief.
In the same kneeling position directly following the arch movements, I do side to side, bringing the hip and and head together on the flat plane, ensuring spine, neck and head are level, alternating side to side...exhaling on the contractions.

Another good one I find for releasing the lower back and opens the chest at the same time is to go into a half squat position, thighs parallel to ground. Place left elbow on left knee (base of quad), left hand gripping right knee (base of quad), then open up chest by extending right arm and rotating torso with right arm to vertical or beyond position. Keep head aligned with right arm through the rotation. Rotate and hold for a second or two, lower back to starting position, then change left arm across knees to right arm, rotate with left arm extended and open chest as before. Do this at least five times per side. This stretch can also give the same release to the dodgy disc as doing the arch.
This is the last stretch I do before paddling out, after going through a bunch of others first.

Uplift, just tried the squat and hanging from open wardrobe doors with handle at the perfect height...bloody top stretch, total lower back release.

Thats great trippergreenfeet, yeh, its good for people who are tight/stressed in their lower back, as its great for them to be able to relaxe, let some blood move.

Again, pretty common scenario oldboy. Most sports, surfing included (hence all the backs... MR), are really specific, so create plenty of imbalance, and related long term injuries. Even Slater has been pretty upfront about his fucked shoulders, back, knee stuff. I played basketball pretty full on, state national, international level oldboy, and the scenario was much the same as you describe. I'm stoked that I learned a lot from many great people, and was passionate about exercise, fitness stuff young. No one lifted weights in sport in oz then, it was considered it would totally ruin your performance. For me, I discovered that it actually was the total opposite and I'm around 60 now, and made it through without any lasting injury. Including surfing for over 45 years. It, training to balance things, protected me, unlike the other guys I played with. All of them have either fucked knees, ankles, achilles, backs, necks , or combos of those. Many with endless multiple ops, lives of dealing with pain. Its another reason I think sports specific training is useless, just adding to imbalance. Footy wise I trained with guys like Ebert, Spencer, Craig, Williams, even Robbie Muir (very entertaining). Williams and Craig worked at Sports Science Clinic in Adelaide, which is still going, and weights were finally being accepted. Although, that was almost worse back then than not using them, as, even as now, some of the ideas, form and techniques the inexperienced coaches and trainers adopted, did more to injure players, epecially over time, than protect, and enhance them. I spent a lot of time with Williams and Craig, and remember ludicrous stuff. Recovery, whats that? Craig won't mind me saying (surely), but when they bought a line of Arthur Jones Nautilus machines, they had no idea what to do with them, and literally did the opposite to what was meant to be done. I had been writing (no net then) to Jones, and his offsider, a guy named Ellington Darden in the US for years, who were super helpfull, passionate about helping, and the result was that I had years of heaps of material from them, which I showed Craig in particular, and which they leapt at. It was, and largely still is so hard for people to really grasp that exercise, while its an important, necessary stimulus, doesn't get you fit, the recovery does. And nutrition is a massive component of recovery.

As I've gone on about compression, backs and stuff, I'll put this on, it might interest some.

Its some video stuff I recently did for some people, including the guy I mentioned in Indo, that is a deluxe way to train to rehab, decompress and strengthen the back, and still keep total fitness, until things are improving. Its the full beginner level, but people often get a shock at their low levels of overall strength, especially hanging. I am kind of loathe to put it on, because even with video, people still misconstrue form, and tend to butcher exercises, which can make a huge difference, and its nothing like being able to show and adapt it to suit them if necessary, in person. I even kind of dread putting that deadlift, olympic lifting stuff on. The vids are pretty kind of scant, as there is so much important stuff re breathing, foot placement, tension etc. Plus training for balance, pure fitness, is different than using them as a sport. I remember talking Mick T from Elliston into going to stay with my back rehab friend I've mentioned before, years ago, when it, surfing was all over for him... radical, endless pain, medication, despite trying everything, spending heaps, for years. He did this style of thing there, and when he came back I had to keep an eye on him for my friend. Fucking hilarious, we used to piss ourselves at what he managed to transform the things into. Its common, normal though, old patterns take time to change. Then of course, a few months or so later, as soon he felt much better, like most, he got slacker and slacker, surfing took over, and always just did enough to keep in the water, rather than knock it on the head. Even he was dumbfounded about his short memory of what the worse pain used to be like, and why he didn't fully do the thing properly. Stuff like that used to drive my friend crazy. Anyway, he's still surfing today, but I wish he'd stuck at it properly. Those that do, get insane results. Everyone should incorporate these two core, decompressing, strengthening movements at the end of their workouts, fucked back or not. They benefit every other exercise at the same time. People soon learn about grip strength too (or more lack of) quickly. The next stages involve adding weight. Men should build up to use 20 - 30 kg in hanging knee raise, women 15 - 20kg. In hyperextensions men 40 - 50 kg, women 20 - 30kg.

As a rehab thing you do them in the order shown, alternating 3 - 5 sets of hypers and hanging knee raises first, when fresh (depending on severity of problem, more severe, more sets, more decompression, more blood). When you can do 12 reps for all sets of each, you drop back to a target of 8 reps for each set of each for the next stages described. If you are interested have a look.

As a 67 model the best thing that I have done for myself is joined cross fit yee may laugh but this is centred around Olympic lifts aerobic exercise & gymnastics promoting joint strength and functional movement as pics above show being able to retrain the body to bend past 90 degrees in the knees under load is a game changer at this age you will develop a power to bodyweight ratio that you have not experienced since your teens if at all without becoming a gorilla. Body is streamlined fat is shredded. Core hip flexer lower upper back ankles knees will regain mobility & functionality. It wont happen over night but six months dedication is a game changer. So just ask that grey haired old man that cranks the airs and slides the tail and this is what he will tell. Into your 40s you must strength train run (no more than 2k at a time) ride as far as you want swim as far as you can. Or you can just chill slowly loose thoracic mobility head for the retirement home chase grannies and have someone else wipe your own ass. Or JUST SURF

two strength days with one rest day and say the rest pool work? would this be sufficient to surf real waves, swimming long distance is a real weakness, in fact i avoid swimming at all costs, what is the rowing machine costing me?

Speaking of Crossfit and considering the best big wave surfer of all time (Dorian) believes in it, what does this say for free weights? What is the 'prime' weight of a big wave surfer. I can't imagine being my 64 kg is good, yet does that mean I need a 'binge' of weights every fucking day to get to 'prime' weight of 82kg and how is that going to happen for me?

Google thruster power clean push press when you can do this with 20,30,40,50.kg you will understand why dorian is so strong but not big its not how big you can be its how much power can you generate from head to toe with what you have got.
As for how often should you train 1hour per day six days a week when we where boys we would surf 3 times that in a week

Blinkers off, I like your 67 model style :)
Smash it out.

Dromodreamer, if you want to be the best, elite at whatever you do, or compare yourself to those that are, or be better than them, then you need to do, or choose to do what ever it takes. Waves are no different than weights. If you want to truly push more water around, deal with more power, speed, bigger waves, truly have a heavier, thicker, longer, more volume board feel managable, that is, turn it when and where you like on those waves, as you would a smaller board and wave, then being too light is obviously a disadvantage. Otherwise the flyweight olympic lifters and powerlifters would lift more than the heavyweights. And the pro surfers wouldn't whinge about even a miniscule more board weight and volume affecting their performance. Its also worth understanding that elite speed, flexibility and explosive power are necessary, crucially, to do the elite level lifts, particularly olympic lifts. As I've mentioned, most people struggle to get into the required positions, ie bottom of a clean, with no weight, and all the time in the world, let alone with extremely heavy, bone and joint snapping weights, with a only split second available, supposing that they could get the weight into the position allowing it to be possible in the first place.

As far as building and maintaining muscle, as a beginner there are some advantages. You are no where near fit and strong enough for it to be too taxing on your unique recovery ability, so have a period where growth and adaptation is easier, than someone, ie, a truly elite athlete, is. Arguments rage about the rate of growth possible, but experience shows that you could realistically put on 5 - 10 kg in a year, especially if really underdeveloped in the legs and glutes, which is common in surfing. In two years, you could realistically have 15kg more muscle, and incomparable fitness levels, if you chose to. After that, recovery ability becomes the crucial element, and as it is nearing its threshold, you have to be smart about what you do. 1 - 2kg a year are good gains.

However for the above scenario to come true, every workout must be productive, or, growth and fitness stimulating. So must the time between workouts, that is recovery. And it must be regular, no missing workouts.

Then of course one of the most important factors, nutrition. One of the biggest bungles, misunderstandings, is ridiculously basic. Whatever you eat and do now activity wise, adds up to you weighing 64kg. If you want to weigh 66kg, that will require more activity, more recovery, tissue growth, blood volume, more maintenance energy etc, etc, which means simply, more food. And not just any food. To get to 68kg, its the same scenario, but even more magnified, so even more of the right food. And so on and so on. Most guys just eat the same as day one, and wonder why they can't grow, if that's the goal. Like giving a brickie 2 bricks, wanting a wall 2 bricks high, then asking him to make it 4 bricks high, no, wait, 6 bricks high and so on, but only giving him 2 bricks. Not going to happen.

So, reality is, that most are resolved, often new years eve resolved, to do... 'whatever it takes, this time I'm really determined... really seriously sick of this, shit' to just get in reasonable 'shape'. 'Lets do it!'. 'Gidday, about tonites workout, apparently Kylie's gonna flash her bum at 7pm, can I reschedule? Oh well, missing one won't matter... will it?' 'Gidday, blah, blah, blah, (which when translated means, me mates are going down the pub), won't matter will it? 'Me eatin'... yeh well fuck, its me missus fault, plus, me fucking mate had to have his birthday party just when I was goin' really good... fuck'n dickhead eh... when's the next new years eve?'

Then of course to be really skilfull at something, anything, means hours of relentless skill and technique practice, not just any practice either (notice how elite champs have coaches) perfecting, and bettering the skill.

So elite athletes sign contracts requiring them to meet whats required. Many don't and get the boot.

The public scenario is often... 'Faaaaaarrrrkkkk honey, look... that's it write down that number... no more fuckin stupid gym and weights shit, look at that guy, just 3 minutes a week, even eats what he likes... scientifically proven too... world champs use it! Order that fucker!'

Which soon becomes, 'For sale, Body Musclershredder Mark VII, no further use... make an offer!'

Its all in the mind, the choices you, or that we all make. Thats why they say, love what you do. You have to love it to be elite. Everyone is elite, some are elite Voice watchers, some elite piss heads, donut chompers, some elite athletes, some elite secret searchers, and so on.

And, rule one is, training prevents injury, shouldn't enhance or create it.

Obviously combining the correct exercise routine (whatever you might do, strength, core etc) with proper nutrition for YOUR body is of the utmost importance. Unfortunately, as we age most of us can't (or don't) get the right nutrition and our bodies don't recover the way they should- leaving us stiff, sore and sorry.
I stumbled across the best supplements I have ever tried that work by raising your body's own glutathione levels, if you haven't heard of glutathione yet- look it up! It turned my life around, it could do the same for yours. You can email me at [email protected] if you wish to know more.

Lvg. In what way did it turn your life around. Where is the evidence that supplements will enhance your health? And do I take it that you only stumbled across it but now decide to sell it. Hmm. I'll wait till your website is up and running. Hopefully you'll put a few facts on it and not just sales crap.

Gidday, no one, including the worlds biggest drug companies, has been able to come up with a way of supplementing glutathione, although they are all clamouring to. Glutathione and SOD are our bodies natural anti oxidants, and are much, much more powerfull than say antioxidants provided by the touted ones, say blueberries, goji, etc. The scams do the rounds every few years, most notably MAX products, and there is another herbal alternative/version, can't remember the name, but they change names. The only way that has been shown to work, other than eating really well, is using it intravenously. Eating whey, processed without heat or chemicals, and raw eggs and dairy, has been shown to keep natural levels high. The rest are just pyramid marketing scams, and they clean up every few years.

Do any of you gymnasium beefcakes take magnesium , if so what sort of doses and why?

Its good Udo, apparently....?
Read the label of content and 'Ye shall be Fine' ;)

Glutathione-Magnesium connection ?
antibiotics- doxycycline and other types take 2hrs before magnesium supplements or 4-6 hours after.

Gidday LVG, if the supplement is the Lifevantage Protandim one, that herbal thing, or MaxGL, or whatever they might call themselves now, they are useless at best. The sales blurb they pass of as 'peer reviewed studies', has been debunked many times over. The ingredients actually cost stuff all, (oh my, but the 'magic' is in the synergy) do stuff all, except they slug a fortune for them. I've tried them and given them a good chance... zilch effect on recovery, strength, well being, whatever.

Gidday udo, ZMA is a good way to get magnesium, as its easy to assimilate, which is a problem for most available forms (in many supplements). In that form you get zinc in a really assimilatable form too. Athletes can get low in both if training and competing really hard, through perspiring a lot. Or many peoples diets are poor, and they just don't consume enough. The simplified version is that magnesium is important for energy conversion, or how hard and how long your muscles can work for. Zinc is import for immune system, and hormone production, so is often touted as a test booster. Thats only true if your diet is really lacking, as per magnesium. If its not, having heaps more will do nothing, and too much zinc is dangerous. I've used ZMA for years and years, its safe and usefull if you train hard. As long as you stick to a few capsules a night. The best form of magnesium is probably the sprays and creams (Ancient Minerals etc), though.

http://www.ancient-minerals.com/magnesium-sources/absorption/

but it feels shithouse on your skin, and is a pain to apply. Some massage therapists like it though.

Here's the cheapest way to get ZMA.

http://www.iherb.com/Primaforce-ZMA-180-Veggie-Caps/25388#p=1&oos=1&disc...

http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Sports-ZMA-Sports-Recovery-180-Capsules/1...

These guys are really reliable, great freight, DHL, eight bucks from US, takes 5 - 10 days usually.

I saw this though, which is much cheaper than you can normally get it in OZ, I've never used them, so no idea on reliability, but the price is unbeatable.

http://www.moochers.com.au/Products/Pharmacy/Vitamin-B/Now-Foods-ZMA-180...

Here's a good spray, much cheaper too.

http://www.iherb.com/Life-Flo-Health-Pure-Magnesium-Oil-8-oz-237-ml/3384...

In general, the supplement industry is a haven for the greatest rip offs the world has ever seen. A few things genuinely do something, but 99.99% are unbelievable scams. They make a fortune though. In my 45 plus years in this I have seen unbelievable shit. Old magazines are full of 'proven', 'recommended by champs' shit, that fizzle after a few years and few million profit, because finally it dawns that they don't work. So they bide their time, and relaunch them on a new, more 'informed' batch of suckers. There are some amasing stories.

Uplift- I fully support your skepticism of the industry, I too, am a skeptic at heart. But I urge people to do all their OWN research, thoroughly, and make up their own minds. Not just believe what someone (either myself or anyone else) says in a couple of posts on a forum!
What I am taking is neither of those products you've mentioned.
Like I stated, I've done the research (much of which I had to scroll through crap about the products you listed). I've also ensured that there is no 'placebo' effect working on me. I'm well aware of placebos and how a new product can feel like it is working, when in actual fact it's just your mind telling you what you want to hear.
I'm an educated person who is not about to jump into creating a business on the back of a hoax- and I'm no Egyptian, so not into building pyramids. I've had genuine results (as have some friends) and the science makes sense, so I'm willing to follow it through and get other people onto it.
Cheers again

I agree with people doing their own research LVG. At the moment there are two things that the money is no object medical industry, and the supplement world have been trying to develop for a very long time, because of the obvious benefits. A glutathione booster and a myostatin blocker. The profits would be absloutely massive, even more so than the production of HGH and testosterone. When it is achieved it will be big, huge news throughout the medical, appearance orientated, and sporting world. Real human based studies are extremely expensive. Still maybe its been done.

So, what product are you spruiking then LVG?

put it on the table mate, so we can assess it.

Great stuff there guys, great advice for nicks. Chiros, osteos, acupuncture...all in that order for me, but the truly best results for me with a disc out at 45 was Pilates. So another core strength vote here. Humans have been suckered onto the hamster wheel of BS that life now is and the bad back is just another example of why we are all physically fucked and falling apart.

Hey freeride76,
if you are seriously interested in finding out more, you can email for information mate. [email protected]
The reason I won't post it to here is that when people 'assess' it, as you say, more often than not, people making comments don't know what they're talking about, they are just regurgitating something they have either heard or read somewhere. This leads to misinformation, which isn't good for anyone.
BTW don't concern yourself with worrying about me sharing your email or sending you spam, I'm not into that business at all.
Cheers,
LVG

Gidday LVG, if its this:

http://www.enhanceglutathione.com/cellgevity.html

Why would max international have to remarket, and supposedly improve the original riboceine product I mentioned previously, that was aparently so astoundingly and miraculously amasing?

Uplift- previously you mentioned MaxGXL. This does not contain Riboceine. It contains N-Acetyl Cysteine and N-Acetyl D-Glucosamine. Riboceine is the compound that has more than 20 peer reviewed studies and ample literature and evidence to say that it is the most cost effective way of enhancing glutathione. So it's not an improvement on the initial MaxGXL product, it's a different product. yep, same company sure- but how is that any different to the advancement of any other technology? That's what R&D departments are for.
Am I saying that you are incorrect in your summation of these companies rebranding products and every few years making big profits- no, I think you are spot on, and I've enjoyed reading your thoughts on that. (Incidentally, I won't advertise MaxGXLon my site, because it appears to be inferior when compared with Cellgevity)
However, my proof comes from the 4 months of being on a product that has helped change me physically to a point where it just can not be a hoax. It's been almost ten years since I've been able to run 7kms on the road at a high intensity and not have sore knees/hips and everything else the next day!

People who feel they have exhausted other options and want to try something, I urge them to do their research. My website is not exhaustive by any stretch (I hate clammy websites with too much information to get lost in) and in the future I'll look at other products to research. I'd rather communicate via email with anyone interested in learning more.
Thanks again, Uplift, I've appreciated the banter.

Gidday LVG, yeh, this is what I said:

'Gidday LVG, if the supplement is the Lifevantage Protandim one, that herbal thing, or MaxGL, or whatever they might call themselves now, they are useless at best.'

They sold the riboceine thing as Max One, its been out, done the rounds for a while. Now they've improved it? By adding all the stuff the other's claim boost glutathione, that riboceine is 'proven' to be miraculously better than?

But, I will say LVG, its good that you can run again, I don't want to be dismissive of that, and if you feel that the product caused that, then so be it, maybe it did. Only trying it will tell for sure whether it helps or not.

Peter Fosters 'Bai Lin' tea works just as good.

what helped my back was Mckenzie stretches. here is the basic idea do this 10 times 3x per day gradually increasing the stretch and hold time.

also get a lumber support in your car or roll up a towel or use pillow and put it behind your lower back whenever you sit for long periods.
loads of info on the net about mckenzie (kiwi physio)stretches I think there have been loads of studys and its proved to be effective. give it a go its free no magical solution but may help you manage your back and return to surfing. he has book too which is very good.

Uplift, tried the decompressing hanging off a bar and if worked a treat so got the mrs onto it, she's 6 months pregnant and been getting lower back pain. She tried it before and after yoga and sorted her right out. Happy wife happy life, good tip, cheers.

Thats great upnorth. Awesome your wife is keeping fit during pregnancy, so good for the baby, too, all the things that make her feel good make the baby develop better and feel good, and its like a playground ride in the womb. She should keep aware that hormones are released during pregnancy making her ligaments and tendons more elastic than normal to help growth and birth. This is fine, especially as she has already been training and is conditioned, but make sure everything is slow, steady speed and controlled. Hanging knee raises like that are so relieving for her spine, and work her abs and core really well. Make sure she does them when she is well and truly warmed up. The cat arch thing I posted will warm her up, and is also really good in pregnancy, so doing them before hanging is really good. And whenever her back is tight and tired. She is probably doing glute, ham, lower back stuff in pilates, but these below are a good replacement for hyperextensions during pregnanacy, because you have to keep strong, blood flowing, and it really helps later as the baby grows, weighs more. Again, the baby gets a ride in her womb, and all of the benefits she gets, plus the bonding and confidence that mum is powering, deluxe, not freaking, stressing, crumbling etc. Heres a good demo.

Think of glutes, hammies, and lower back, keep those muscle groups fully engaged when doing them, not relaxing them from start to finish. Raise glutes about inch off floor to start, keep them off till finished. Lift for 2 secs, squeeze, flex at top for 2 secs, abs too up there, then whilst still squeezing, lower back down for 4 secs, keeping glutes inch off floor at bottom. This exercise done this way also keeps pressure off of her back for prolonged periods which can restrict blood flow to the baby. Start easy, just a couple of sets daily is enough. Maybe 5 reps each to begin with, whatever is comfortable gradually increasing as she feels strong. When she can do a couple of sets of 20 reps easily, this is a more advanced version.

And when thats easy use suspension straps, TRX, Crankit, etc.

I've trained plenty of pregnant ladies that hang, deadlift, squat etc right up to birth. Healthier, stronger they are the better, and better off the baby, just as nature intended.

Thanks for the info uplift, yeah she's keen to basically carry on as normal with fitness during the pregnancy with a few tweaks for ease, as you say better for both of them if she is fit and in a good place. Funny you should mention the elasticity she has found yoga easier recently, the way it all works is awesome.

'hahaha. i tried to squat like in the pictures and fell over backwards :). i cant remember when ive ever been able to do that - i guess as a young kid i could as i know my 4 year old can.

i think my hips are pretty mobile but it seems that my weight is still too far back. could be tight ankles / Achilles - not sure these can be stretched though?'

Gidday happyasS, this comment just showed up, but looks like you may have posted it ages ago.

Most people struggle squatting, because of weak glutes, and inability to activate them, and same thing with lower back, although achilles flexibility is an issue when going deep. Plus form is crucial.

If you look at the decompression link that I posted, I did a quick rundown of squatting form on that. There's not much detail, because I made the video mainly for a guy I'v e seen quite a few times that works out of Indo, and is away for a while, as he wanted visual reminders. It starts about the 7 minute 45 sec mark.

I use that exercise for anyone I train, to assess their squatting/deadlifting ability, fitness, knee issues, back/hip issues etc. Then I use it if I have to, to teach them correct technique, and strengthen them. Doing them properly is actually much harder than it looks. For instance I trained a tow legend around here for a while, and he was feeble at them, croaking at around 6 first up. Just getting to be able to do a couple of sets of 25 made him feel stronger and more stable when towing. Until they can do 2 sets of 25 reps perfectly I don't let anyone near a bar. If you use this explanation, plus the vid, you will learn to squat and deadlift. Firstly, your feet have to be around hip width apart, and dead straight. Dead straight feels pigeon toed at first to many people who have developed lazy ways of walking and running. The whole time you do the exercise, knees must track straight in line with feet, no flaring in or out. Start by standing straight up, and flexing/contracting glutes and quads, and lower back as hard as you can, creating maximum tension. Simultaneously squeeze your knees as tight as you can, and brace your core by imagining squeezing as if trying to stop a piss, and pulling sqeezing abs and everything you can feel into your spine as hard as you can. Once all that is tight, keep it as tight as you can, until the set is finished. Lower by bending at the knees, and sticking butt out behind you, as if searching for a chair, letting the weight into your glutes and heels as well as quads. Your knees must be allowed to move forward naturally, as your but slides down and back, so that your weight is over your feet, not just leaning back, using the straps to stand (where you would fall over with out them). Keep the natural concave/arch in your lower back as you lower. As I said refer also to the vid. Whilst keeping everything tight the whole time, lower to the bottom position, taking four seconds to get there, then sitting tight in the bottom for two seconds. Whilst there, try to tighten even more, let your weight sit into your heels, and start the drive up with glutes, glutes drive hips up and forward, simultaneously lower back drives spine and shoulders up, quads drive knees back into straight upright position. As I said, feet dead straight ahead, and knees straight in line, no flaring in/out, natural, slightly exagerated concave/arch in back. Take two seconds to drive/stand up straight, try to flex/contract/squeeze tighter, without relaxing, fully upright, knees locked out tight for 2 secs, then, without relaxing repeat. Breathe like this. When lowering, pant quickly in/out to keep tension, half way down suck in a big breath, while bracing core, and squeezing/tightening everything as mentioned, hold breath for 2 secs in the bottom position, then drive up, blowing out two thirds the way up. Keep panting quickly in out, till half way down again. Breathing is crucial to maintain core integity when later using weight, and to keep form/tension. Many people find their feet move all over the place, knees flair in out, quiver and flop everywhere. Every rep, it must be continually corrected. Eventually the pattern wil be imprinted, and the weaknesses/imbalances causing bad form strengthened and addressed. Only go as low as you naturally can, keeping the arch, until you notice your hips want to rock/tilt forward at the bottom and your tail bone has to curl under. Stop just above that height, that is your structures natural squatting range when lifting heavy weights. Everyone is different. Don't use the straps until when lowering you see that you struggle to stop tipping forward, (glutes trying to get out of lifting) and/or your back has to round, then use the straps to maintain your position. A bit of leaning forward is natural, use the video as a guide, but you must keep weight back in glutes and over your feet. Eventually, you wont need the straps, but use them until you are stronger and need them less and less. Do a second set, but when coming back up in the first rep, stop with a slight bend in your knee in the top position, that is stop just shy of locking out at the top, still concentrating on tension, and holding the arch in your back. Do that for the rest of the set.

That is how you have to squat with weight, for it to be productive and safe. 10 -12 reps with bodyweight on back is the goal. Same deadlifting. Deadlifting has bit different breathing pattern.

thanks uplift. I must admit in the gym I do round my lower back a bit at the bottom of a squat or at least my mate says so. probably in an attempt to get the most out of the exercises by going low, but if that's extending beyond my "safe" range of motion then its best to avoid that as you've said.

a few years back I had a lower back episode. the physio referred to my multifidus muscles and reckoned then were too weak. I don't know how he knew that since they are tiny muscles underneath larger muscles but anyhow he was adamant. he talked about doing the bird-dogs so help strengthen them. is the bird-dog exercise really all that unique for working on these tiny muscles? or is it just as good to do extensions like in your vid...for me, the extensions feel like a real exercise that actually takes effort...the bird-dogs not so much.

Something else to consider is balance, not the inner ear type but balance in muscle and joint use, especially when it comes to manual labour.

Whether shoveling, sweeping, vacuuming, using the wood splitter or using the chainsaw, try to be ambidextrous about it. First there'll be far less fatigue during the activity and secondly much less chance of injury, during and after the activity.
The effects of having a strong and weak side can take a toll if the in-balance becomes too great.

Good for the body and a real work out for the mind if it's not something you're body is used to doing.

Try some switch foot surfing occasionally, that really gets the body and brain working overtime.

Gidday happyasS, that group of muscles activates anytime your spine does some movement. Personally I don't buy into the whole, massive industry based on that style of belief, that all those supporting muscles are somehow left out of most exercises. Crumpled back world is a very profitable western thing. Hyperextensions on a good, fully adjustable bench can be started at any level of fitness and strength, including elderly, and injured. The progression can eventually lead to an average petite woman easily lifting 20 kg in very strict form for multiple repetitions, with long isometric holds in the extended position. The strength and fitness gained truly is functional and transferable to lifting things, and other exercises, ie deadlifts, squats, clean and jerks. Which also activate that muscle group, and which also means fitness and strength transferable to running, jumping etc. A person at that level would fall asleep from boredom after doing countless hours of 'birddogs'. However on the contrary a 'birddog' specialist would be helpless, and risking injury at attempting that level of hyperextension, squat, deadlift, or clean and jerk performance. Interestingly, in the standing jump test, a universely recognised measure of pure athletic ability, olympic lifters beat all comers. Even basketballers, track athletes and gymnasts.

With the squat thing, you have to work as low as possible without hitting that tucked under pelvis/tailbone point. Don't use it as an excuse to only work in top favourable leverage portion though. And a rounded back is a no, no, the stretched muscles along the spine are then weak, offering little strength and support compared to the arched/concave flexed, or contracted strength support.

Yeah trippergreenfield, just like specificity creating imbalance is an issue in all sports. Which is why training to address the issue is so important.

Hi Uplift, I have been adding dips, hanging knee raises and chinups to the 5x5 workout as well as balancing out the squats and deadlifts. It's going well, the workout feels more "rounded" as opposed to a hardline trajectory to muscle gain.

Thanks for the tips.
Matt

No worries mk1, glad you are enjoying it.

Another thing to watch as you are working out/training, and one of the most prevalent mistakes is 'progressing' or getting extra reps due to changes in form, by creating a new skill, rather than forcing the muscles/fitness to adapt. Your body and mind will always look for the easy way out, any way it can to gain momentum, alter leverage etc, to make things easier. Its also easier to do that than build new muscle and structures. So you have to get your form perfect, and keep monitoring that it stays that way. Force the muscles and structures to do the work unaided, and they will have no choice but to adapt. Perfect form protects from injury too. For instance when tiring in a set of squats, poor form is to let knees come in together, bounce out of the bottom, neglect the negative portion and so on, which over time causes imbalance and injury. Your body doesn't know if you will do the rep 1 or 10 times, or if it will happen again, so just seeks the easy way out for that instant. So its most result producing to constantly work on form.

This has other payoffs, especially when training for sports, as it teaches discipline and focus under intense exertion and pressure. For all trainers the focus, whilst seeming hard, actually gives the mind a rest from the zillion things normally running around there, and so is by nature meditative and restoring.

Thanks to all who've posted up excellent advice!

Maybe this can help some suffering surfers.... Baba Ramdev on sciatic pain.

Uplift

Sound advice. Cheers.

Uplift

Sound advice. Cheers.

Double double

found this the other day...called "foundation training". one of the founders claims to have trained Lance Armstrong and Kelly Slater amongst others.

The premise of the workout is that the core is not the abdominals (transverse and all that) but is instead the hamstrings, glutes, and lower back muscles. They say that our addiction to sitting in front of computers, & driving has our bodies adapting to new posture positions that aren't any good for us, and goes on to say that without specific training to negate it that we carry these adapted postures throughout our daily lives and even into our sporting arena's, using our cores incorrectly, which equals increased chances of injury.

Im always open to new ideas, this one does kind of fly in the face of what physios talk about the core and recommend.

I took a go at this 12 minute intense foundation workout...

It was relentless and I must admit I didn't make it all the way through without straightening up for a brief pause a couple of times. Holding the so called perfect form (extended lower back) all the way throughout was not possible for me.

I'll continue it for a while and see what I see.

Uplift is "beta-alanine" a god supplement....?
I have used this prior to training and gives tingle prickly feeling, which is quite wierd.
Is it a placebo..? Or does it actually work as one the better supplements...?
Have you or the people you train used it...?
Cheers.

Yeh wellymon, beta alanine actually works, and there's also been plenty of human testing. Put simply, if you train with maximum intensity to failure, you'll get an extra rep or two. Or you'll have more endurance. Your final contractions will still feel strong. That translates to more stimulus, more shock, as per with creatine, so as long as your recovery is good, more adaptation. Getting a time/sustained release one will mostly get rid of the tingles. Have it with meals, you don't need it straight before workouts, your body loads up on it. Plus beta alanine has shown to be perfectly safe in numerous human studies, and is widely used. Here's a couple of good ones, and price.

http://www.proteinking.com.au/Bodybuilding-Supplements/Musashi-Beta-Alanine

http://au.bodybuilding.com/store/powerbar/high-intensity-beta-alanine.ht...

Wouldn't trust the Biotest version. Some hilarious stories about that mob.

Yeh happyasS, weightlifters and strength athletes have known about the 'core' for yonks.

Cheers Uplift, Musashi is what I have used before.
I'm hearing you about eating with it.
It took me a while to find that supplement, as everyone was saying about all this other shit.
I drink Swiss Chlorophyll first thing in the morning with 5/1000mg spirulina tablets just to get the day up and running...? Feed back please...? as I think it is quite good. As well a glass of warm water with squeezed lemon juice. Then Wait 30 mins and eat.

I will have to get a little programme of you, If you do not mind please to build my left shoulder up, Fractured scapula 5 weeks ago and has mended well, pretty much full movement but a little sore from inflammation and probably from pulled muscles..?
MRI scan was fine. All good, ready to go ;)
Cheers
Welly.

Gidday wellymon, gotta crash but will answer tomorrow. No doubt he will curse me, but I will try and get my son into gear tomorrow arvo and see if he'll film some stuff for/with me that I can post like the other link. Or I don't think I can explain it good enough to be sure its what I want to show you.

But, also I recommend that you, in fact any one that surfs a lot gets one of these. They look like nothing, but hands down shit on any other shoulder rehab tool I've seen or tried. There are numerous other ways that try and do the same thing, but in my experience, they fail when shoulders are really eventually treated like normal, which is the goal. Make sure you specify the right size.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SHOULDER-HORN-Rotator-Cuff-Training-Device-/1...

Gidday wellymon, I've done the video of the workout I'd recommend, and should have it up for you soon.

Like any workout, start by doing the cat arches I described and posted earlier. I've shown a warmup/exercise using the shoulderhorn, that would do wonders for you. Over the years I've experienced and tried every other style of that type of exercise and wouldn't recommend any of them as actually making shoulders bullet proof. So its up to you what you do, but that's the only thing of that style that I personally feel actually works, and recommend and use. The video explains everything else.

As far as the spirulina, I think its good, but remember that originally whole chunks, cakes, and slabs of the stuff were eaten. Like eating a whole bottle of capsules. That way you do get plenty of beneficial nutrients. 5 grams isn't much of anything food wise. The cost is a blatent rip off in that industry. It costs peanuts to produce. The cheapest way, still reliable is probably this, but its still ludicrously expensive to have meaningfull amounts. Then as you probably know, if you eat heaps, its the real deal going green. The Green Lantern.

http://www.naturalhealthorganics.com.au/morlife-spirulina-powder-1kg-cer...

You probably know the cracked wall thing with chlorella, or its pretty much unusable.

I used them a lot once, plus bee's pollen.

Hemps seeds are good, awesome.

You have to be the judge of how you feel doing/not doing that regime. I prefer water first up. Then later micronised creatine dissolved in hot water first, add cool, plus aminos, 5 gram BCAA, 5 gram luecine, 5 gram taurine, on an empty stomach. Then eggs, salad etc, or whey concentrate smoothy, berries, coconut oil. Something like that. Maybe oats, with the whey, oil, or pure cream. My first appointments are often 6am, so depends on when a break is etc. Also remember my eating is kind of vegetarian, I only eat from animals what you don't have to kill, so anything from milk, eggs, although you could argue about eggs in that way.

Anyway once the vid uploads etc, I'll put it up.

Cheers Uplift.
Thanks for the input.
The leggie string with a double fisherman knot will be in the post soon :)

Gidday wellymon, here's the exercise vid.

Here's a link to the best chalk. They are out of stock first one, where I always get it, but second link is good price, never used them, so not sure of shipping. You can get it over here, but rip off mark ups, like 80 - 100 bucks a bottle. ludicrous. Get the 8 oz for way best value.

http://au.bodybuilding.com/store/liquid-grip/liquid-grip.html?&_requesti...

http://au.evitamins.com/liquid-grip

Hahaha Uplift, thats awesome, great training technique and video, thanks heaps for that, you didn't have to go to that extreme of making a video, but hey its under 'Uplifts shoulder rehab'.
I'm not going to buy one of those shoulder braces as my shoulder is still in tact, have gained quite a lot of strenght back in the last few weeks and I can use more than a baked bean can :) Love the theory tho.
I like how you have explained technique really well and I'm sure this will help, especially using the back shoulder muscles around your scapula instead of your deltoids etc...
Cheers.

Quote Uplift "You probably know the cracked wall thing with chlorella, or its pretty much unusable."
Not sure, but been using Swiss Chlorophyll...?
Thanks again, much appreciated, will study your video a few more times.

Gidday wellymon, making the video was the only way to properly explain what I wanted to. Even with a video, its still much different than in person though, and in one way I don't like it, as I have explained, its amasing what happens to form when people are left to their own devices.

Actually I was serious with the baked bean cans thing. If you ever get to use a shoulderhorn, correctly, you'll soon see what I mean. I love watching guys sneers turn to trembling squeals, as they feel that area getting fried. It takes a while, and a lot of strength and control to build up to using even 6 or 7 kg for 25 reps. anyone I train uses the shoulderhorn, it bullet proofs technique to work hard in all presses and pulls, including chins etc.

I regularly get guys telling me they can press say 70/80 kg, yet they are unable to press 20 kg strictly, correctly without crumbling. Same with pushups. 50 becomes 5 before collapsing. Here is correct form for pushups.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=475493339127660&set=vb.350538261623...

Try chinups the same way... 'yeh mate, I'm really fit and strong, I can do heaps', quickly becomes maybe 2.

The whole time you train, from the first rep to the last, you have to think tension. How to constantly increase tension, from one end of the rep to the other, if you want to get real adaptation. Most people get a rude shock when they actually do that. Most inadvertantly become experts at the opposite when training, finding ways to rest during the set. That is the main difference between endurance training, and explosive, sprint style training. You can't fool your body, it is a meter, and knows exactly when you are resting or not, despite outward appearances. 12 reps with lots of little rests is exactly that. Momentum is rest, slight losses of form equal less tension in the target muscles, equals rest. Your body doesn't take it too seriously re adaptation.

Yep I understand that all......
I do honestly understand about form as you have explained.....:)
Very important, Geez you got some great form for a 60 year old for sure, nice one.
Many blokes on this forum above their 50's, would be very impressed , I think and hope they are learning as age has nothing to do with it.

I really like the negative stuff, ie , press ups and goes towards pull up's as well....?As with all exercises. Everyone pushes, bench shit etc and I like the fact of yourself saying pulling/rowing exercises, especially with the shoulders or back... :) Stop it S-G2 I know what your gonna say..;)
I have used the TRX before, geez thats real core shit and a great natural body workout, I found it quite hard, could not get many reps in , as regards to different manoeuvres.

Appreciate again Uppity, awesome stuff. Thank you.

No worries wellymon, and good that the importance of form etc, means something to you. When you are healing something, major blood flow is really important as is gradually strengthening, allowing proper healing without scarring. So don't be in a hurry to use too much resistance at first. Pain is a reasonably good guide, always err on the side of caution for a while though, ie higher reps less resistance. If you keep momentum and acceleration out of the picture at first, whatever you can lift once structurally, you can cope with until your muscles fail. As you progress in reps the last ones are the weakest, if your form/speed stays constant, perfect, and even though they are the most result producing reps, they are actually safest. Scar tissue is inflexible compared to healthy tissue and encourages tearing on the edges, so avoid building on it by further micro damaging any injured areas.

Yeh, suspension training is handy, I always travel with them, straps, no excuses for not getting a great workout anywhere. I like the Crankit ones, they are really versatile. Experience shows that they aren't as effective at building raw strength as weights though. We've hosted the manufacturers of them here, and even though I purpose built a room for them in the gym, I know their limits. I've had some fun stirring the guys up, but in their defense some are honest and acknowledge the strength building situation. Its not hard to put it to the test. But as you say, they actually do a great job. A guy that is reknowned here for his charging asked me to show him some stuff once, and was pretty confident about his training, core, stability etc. He was literally helpless using them, which again was entertaining. But the real weaknesses are/were exposed when squatting and deadlifting.

In my job, despite all the wishfull thinking and 'education' to the opposite, invariably you will be called on to back up what you say. Mostly, and importantly the job is to not intimidate the client, or do things that may coax them into risky lifts etc, but in my experience, sometimes, you must be able to put your advice into practice. I am stoked and like people to see that age is not an excuse for injuries, and can squat and deadlift my bodyweight in perfect form easily for a dozen reps. I can and do hang and lift plenty of weight when working core, chins, dips etc, and push a lot of weight, only because I have trained that way consistantly. I see many people, even young people with much more potential than me, that buy into beliefs that are guarranteed to have them getting ridiculously weak, or imbalanced and injured as they age. I made many, many training mistakes when I was younger, but truthfully sought out those that did, and could demonstrate the opposite to my errors. I was helped by some amasing people, in a different era, when people had the time and inclination to to openly give help, without fear of losing money, leverage in the marketplace, etc. I feel sorry for young trainers, the race for survival and profit tends to over-rule all else. Getting the market edge is paramount and leads to hilarious stuff. Variety and comfort is demanded by the public, even though a most basic understanding of adaptation shows its flaws. Elite athletes learn to defeat the so called 'boredom', and know the power of being able to do repetitive, beneficial, necessary actions for as long as is needed. Like the boxer, who musn't drop his guard, who must keep his arms up, protect his chin, must have it ingrained in mind, in habit, no matter what else he is doing, no matter how tired, over and over and over, until the final bell. One lapse, and against a truly elite opponent, curtains. That attitude and ingrained learning actually works in my favour. I am honest with all of my clients, results are all that count to me. If you genuinely want a strong, fit back, you will learn to strictly deadlift, chin and row. And man or woman, you will do it for years. Variety will come in the form of load and repetition. And in years you will be a powerhouse at deadlifting, chinning and rowing, and it will show. Anything else will be easy for you to adapt to and learn. If someone has dodged those basic, but all powerfull techniques and exercises, they will be helpless trying them, and be quickly exposed. That's the secret. No secret, pretty basic, anyone can do it. Like meditating. No faaark this, boring... where's me new dolphin chant tape!

Uplift ... I agree with your comments 100%. We need more of your type of contributions on this issue.

It is unfortunate that (generally speaking) the basic precepts and importance of muscle mass, strength, fitness (especially in older age) are not widely understood. As a 50 year old surfer who also likes to pump iron, I see the two activities as totally complimentary. They are both fun and have a purpose.

My own weight training routine is very simple - approx 60 - 75 mins per session, three session per fortnight, focus on 3 - 5 compound moves (Squat, Bench Press, Clean and Press, Chins, Deadlifts), whole body workouts each session, lift heavy, focus on perfect form, progressively increasing loads, limit session to about 15 sets total .... and I love it. The benefits mentally and physically are enormous (probably why I have been doing it for 35 years).

Whole body Andrew, awesome, that's deluxe. So many want to split, but mainly for the wrong reasons. Whole body is hard, but real fitness is the result. Inspiring.

Wellymon and Uplift, Your two comments have just inspired me. Thank You both. It took me many years of incorrect training (three on/one off, 5 days per week, etc ), to bring it all back to the basics. Arnold got big on the basics (he powerlifted early on), when he got into the gear, he could do his double split, 6 x week stuff. I acknowledge there is a place for split training, but I prefer the whole body routine. If only the 'young guns' understood that the small (isolation) exercises do not have the capacity to produce the big hormonal (testosterone) effects that you get from lifting heavy compound movements. And that you can get real muscle strength (and size) gains from training less frequently (eg two or three sessions x week maximum), with less volume (fewer sets), but more intensity (effort). I have got to the point, and age, whereby the 3-4 days in between workouts is giving me the recovery I need to recover and go hard each workout. It also means that I have time for surf, without DOMS. Thank you again both. PS After living at Burleigh Heads and Tweed Heads for 17 years, I miss the Goldie. Now back in South Australia, however the good points of being home, outweigh the bad. Cheers.

Yeh, good points Andrew, juggling training/recovery with surfing and for athletes, with competing and specific training, is a real art. Also to have plenty of left over energy to do that, requires getting maximum adaptation, without wasting precious time and energy, so as you point out, the full body workouts, plus compound movements come into their own. I regularly watch guys doing 12 sets for biceps, funnily, usually less, but still too much for triceps, 16 sets for shoulders, same for chest, ala the chemically enhanced trainers, and wonder why they always get sick, and never change.

Anyone that can do 12 sets of any one thing, isn't using anything like maximum intensity. When you show them a truly maximum intensity set, even doing a second is daunting, a third will ensure they well and truly get the message, as does their body. Think of sprinters, after a couple of all out maximum effort sprints, thats it. Times drop drastically. Sprinters are exceptional, geniuses at putting unbelievable, maximum effort and time under tension into each 'set' so to speak, so their development reflects it, as does their hormone profile. As the length of time of effort stretches out, intensity drops, until at the other end of the scale, it becomes full marathon efforts. With the corresponding muscular development, and hormone profile. The body simply manipulates all important hormones to get the result wanted. Good training can enhance recovery (not to be confused with the recovery or repairing of stressed structures) between sets, or efforts, which is a boon for most sports. One way is to gradually reduce rest between sets, forcing the body to deal with waste product, fuel replacement etc, and to prepare quickly for the next effort.

An awesome way is to think along the lines that most sports have say a 25 minute quarter max before rest, and even in that, there are still plenty of stop/start, rest periods. If you work say squats first in the workout, where although the whole body is involved, glutes, quads, hammies, lower back, calves get hit hardest, for say 3 sets, with minimum rest between sets, heart, lungs get a hammering also. Normally as the muscles tire, with more sets, despite what it feels like, the muscles are incapable of working as hard as in the first sets, due to weakness, so heart lungs etc actually work less. So straight away, no, or minimum rest, you jump to chins, upper back/pulling muscles, which are relatively fresh, and flog them for three sets. Heart/lungs/circulatory gets hammered, like being able to chuck fresh legs at them. Next same for chest/pushing muscles, Still relatively fresh, maybe bench, or dips, heart/lungs/circulatory are getting even more hammered, same scenario. Then, instantly back to working back, which has partially recovered (this also makes use of tension/strength build up in opposing, working muscle groups), maybe bent rows, which also indirectly hits glutes, hammies, core hard (simultaneously remembering and addressing balance between much stronger, bigger back group, compared to chest). Heart lungs really get pushed, then instantly maybe military press. Then its good to rest, finish with some decompression, core work.

Anyone that can truly blast through workouts like that, can easily deal with full focus, maximum effort till the end, in a quarter, or half, prolonged effort, etc of their chosen sport. Naturally that alone isn't enough to excell in sport, and there needs to be ample specific training. But, they will have the ultimate tool to apply to that.

Again, recovery is crucial as you say Andrew and one of the most least understood, and abused components of training. Athletes are particularly vunerable to bungling, as their very nature tends to push them too far, easily forgetting that training only stresses you, recovery is adaptation. That maybe just one more set... maybe another workout... which equates to, maybe if I just lay in the sun all day, I'll go really brown. No, you'll just get incinerated.

Strange as it may seem, I found that training for clubbie competition (swim and board only) has been the best thing for my surfing. As background starting surfing at 14 in ’72. Did nothing else but surfing until late 20’s (27 actually) then been clubbie training and surfing since then. The training during the summer season means, 3 swims (4-5k per session), 2 runs, 4-5 board paddle sessions(45-60 mins) and 3 x gym (chin ups, pushups, pistols (one legged squats) hand stands and ab work ) This keeps me in peck condition. But as uplift said finding the balance between when to REST and when to go hard is the difficult thing.

"which equates to, maybe if I just lay in the sun all day, I'll go really brown. No, you'll just get incinerated."

Classic

Hey mick it really seems logical to me clubbie training would be one of the best things for surfing, but how do you do that without having to be a clubbie and the obligations that go with that, i.e if the surf is cranking do you have to still turn up to training and don't you have to do all the beach duty hurrah? (do you curse it when you know somewhere the waves are all time but your babysitting kids and tourists)

uPlIfT if Tom Carroll enters the Molokai race can your imaginary friend help him to win

My friend's dead.

Ask Carroll yourself.

Stairdodger. I'll take my hat off to you, bloke.... You know your stuff re muscle..... A question - what's the go with bursitis? A - anti inlfammatories.... B - if doesn't work then cortisone needle..... C If that doesn't work, is there some form of pilates/ stretches instead of the knife?

Gidday sheepdawg, Im answering this from my phone, and have a real early start, and late finishso will answer tomorrow night. I honestly believe and have experienced and seen that there is much you can do to help your shoulders healoand strengthen in the right way/places. I need my sleep for full blabberthon strength tomorrow night.

Sheepdog...mate avoid cortisone at all costs.STEM CELLS and PRP (platelette rich plasma) THE way to go for muscle and joint problems,i know first hand cause ive had the fucked shoulders,cortisone,anti inflammatories etc worse thing you can do.Dr Peter Lewis at the Malvern Health Clinic in melbourne is the man.I have had STEM CELL injections in both shoulders and knees due to arthritis/wear and tear and muscle tears in my bicepts and it was the best descision ive made.Most footy players will have a prp injection now for torn rotator cuffs etc to help speed up recovery.Shoulders are very bony structures and dont have a big blood supply so dont heal very well or quickly.I was told i needed a shoulder replacement by the specialist,nearly necked myself,so researched stem cells which is still very new but a lot of Drs dont know much about it, why i dont know.Anyway cut a long story short look it up and im back surfing now doing pushups again and strengthtening every thing up again.....small steps but dont wait,dont do surgery unless everything else fails and give Peter Lewis a ring,i thing he does Skype interviews.

Simba re the stem cells whats the cost and is there any guarantee.

Sir,...no guarantees but believe me this is the future of medicene..... cost is approx $3000.......PRP is way cheaper $ 250 from memory and you can claim half back on medicare....if you have muscle problems as in tears PRP should be enough and its only a blood draw .A good comprehensive american site which has a shit load of info esp on there blog is called Regenexx....

Cheers, Simba..... Had dramas with the right one years ago, but it seemed to settle down after six months..... Hadven't had problems for ages.....But my left shoulder...... (left handed)..... Geez.... Seems to be mending, then something as mundane as grabbing a shopping bag on the wrong angle flairs it up.... Really strange.....

Sheepdog ,if you havent already go have an ultra sound on it and go from there but PRP would certainly help cause it sounds like you might have a small tear some where, maybe rotator cuff which will more than likely keep tearing unless you do something about it......dont do cortisone cause it only helps for a while and you take the chance of it weaking the muscle tissue eventually making it worse.Anti inflammatories retard stem cells and fuk your gut after a while.

Gidday sheepdawg. I agree with Simba about bloodflow. Gorging an area with blood can, well, does really promote and facilitate healing. If you want specific details about your injury/condition, then yeh ultrasound, or for most detail, MRI is the way to go. However, there's lots of things that could cause that type of impingement or pain, that are all pretty common in our culture, and which are all addressed by a similar protocol though. In the stuff I gave wellymon, I pointed out the all too common weakness/imbalance in the pulling (plus stabilizing) structures compared to pushing structures. Its easy to highlight in real life. Most people are pretty poor at pulling style exercises, but ok at pushing style. Most have pretty poor grip strength/endurance. Even among those who have strong grips, plenty have bad technique re shoulder position/stabilisation. In the simplest description, the shoulders get used in ways (including everyday life and training/competing) that promote distortion, and all sorts of impingements, leading to inflammation, pain, and a snowballing, self perpetuating cycle starts.

Mirrors, a boon in training, are also a huge hinderence in the wrong hands. Plenty only pay attention to what they can see, in everyday life too. Front and side. Yet, back is where all the power is, and should be. The cycle simplified is, shoulders that always, chronically roll forward in activity. Over time, this prevails, and becomes more and more pronounced. Hence major distortion. Again, easy to demonstrate in real life. Even a simple lat pulldown can reveal much. Pulling whole stacks in a ludicrous, restricted range is common in gyms. Rounded back, shoulders forward, big deal. 'Getting me shoulders done next month.' No kidding. Anyway, so inflammation, and pain begin. As it gets worse, and more pronounced, restricted movement is next, and attempts to avoid pain, result in less blood flow (less extreme version of tail docking), and atrophy, more imbalance. Thus, more pain, and away the cycle/snowball goes. Less and less bloodflow. More impingement, no healing. 'Hang on, be there in a sec, just brushing me teeth... faaaaaarrrrrkkkk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even after total rest, unless addressed, away we go, instant replay.

So, the cycle must be broken. Bloodflow, massive bloodflow needs to be reintroduced in a way that promotes balance, and alleviates, and stops impingement. Then major strengthening must happen, but in a balanced way, that also avoids more scarring and impingement. Patterns must be changed re shoulder stabilisation. A glaring similar example re patterns is, a dud deadlifter/squatter finds it extremely difficult, and foreign feeling to arch the back when lifting, and is always rounded, even when they think they are arched. A good one is the opposite, and it feels really unnatural to lift with a rounded back, and they always automatically arch. It must be automatic, unconscious to engage shoulder stabilizing when using them. This promotes an openness, and lack distortion and impingement. Here's an extreme example. Watch his shouders, before he lifts.

Here Bolt trains/promotes the action whilst working out. Shoulders rolled back/down. His development in the region is easy to see.

As simple and useless as it looks, this thing is the key to breaking the cycle. Blood gorging, alleviation of distortion and creating a pattern whilst strengthening, in one hit. As far as I am concerned and have experienced, nothing comes remotely close to it, in what can be achieved. You can't get them here, and this is the simplest/cheapest way to get one.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SHOULDER-HORN-Rotator-Cuff-Training-Device-/1...

Then different techniques can begin and be introduced at the appropriate level to further reverse the situation. The goal is to completely reverse it. If you are interested dawg, I'll make another more detailed, specific vid, as its really drawn out and not as good to explain in writing.

Thanks man...... I really appreciate it. .... had ultrasound - bursitis.... The "rounded/arched back shoudlers forward" thing strikes a chord... Cheers...

Hi Hem-stret,........?...lost me..........calm down mate,take a deep breath.

Its a Tassie thing simba .... you know one head argueing with the other ;-)

Hey!!!!!!! Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tony Abbott is from NSW... Gillard is from S.A.... And freakn Jeff Kennett is from Vic.... Nothing more needs to be said ;)

Sir Joe Bielke Peterson ...?? Tim Fischer wasn't born in Tassie was he !
The best thing that could happen to Tassie is to Join Vic .
King Island Tried , but taht wouldn't happen now would it .
Chinup's ........ Back on topic

Sir Jo was from NZ, southey, Fischer from NSW, Bob Brown - NSW..... It's ok, southey. I was born in Vicco..... But moved to qld at the ripe old age of 18 months...... hehehe... Thank god ;) Now I'm just an Aussie nomad..... True identity problem....

I am TGF lol...... But born in Vic, grew up in se qld, few years in FNQ, 5 years in S.A... 2 in vic, now 5 in tassie.... I really don't fuckn know what I'm meant to be..... I suppose 3 and 1/2 decades in qld makes me a canetoad....... I do have an affinity with Melbourne, though....... Mornington peninsula...... And S.A..... See!!!! See what I mean??? Identity crisis...... Fuck it..... I'm an Aussie.... That's what I am :)

I should be able to tee up my son with his camera and have that vid for you on the weekend sheepdawg, or early next week.

No doubt about ya', sir liftalot ;).... Ps - that shoulder support exercise thingo' looks pretty cool...... Trying a few "innovations".... Shame they're not sold here.... some bright spark may consider stocking them.... Cheers, man...

Got the filming done dawg, hopefully will have it on a USB tomorrow, and I can get it on here, either tomorrow night, or tuesday night.

Cheers, lift...... Keepin' warm? Taste of tassie over your way atm....Your raintanks full?

Gidday dawg, here's the video. Hope its some use to you, or anyone with inflamed/sore shoulders. Yeh, its full Antartic cons here at the moment. Cockies freaking about too much water, they love freaking!

Hey, lift.... That video..... A+, champ.... Only weights I have are handweights... So for now I'll concentrate on those first sets..... Already noticed my feet going out like John Wayne lol..... That's a family tradition... The old man was the same, as was pa' re' walking like John Wayne Must be genetic hehehe..... Also noticed my weak spot above L5 was getting a good workout....
Thanks, man...... And thank your son, too..... He did a good job......

Lift.... Considering I dont have one of those "shoulder braces", can a similar position/result be gained by standing with one's back against a wall?

Nah sheepy, I reckon I have tested every possible shoulder rehab exercise over the years, and was serious when I said I don't bother with and personally wouldn't recommend anything else. If you want to look, you'll find lots of exercises/demos mimicking its action, so up to you what you do. As I want you to have the best shot at fixing your shoulder, I recommend getting it. That link is actually cheap, you can pay ludicrous prices for them, over $250. The best I can suggest, is get one (it will take weeks to arrive), and if you think its useless, I will buy it for the gym, pay the full cost plus freight, and cost of postage to me. I would send one from the gym, but we use them heaps. If you are going to get one, until you get it, just do the other stuff.

No offense, but its something I ask lots of people, that is, what's your health, what are you worth? More thans some beers and smokes, or pizzas I hope. People sometimes say to me, you are lucky, nothing wrong, or its easy for you, you have a gym. No luck, the first thing I sent to Elliston years and years ago, when I moved there to live was all my gym equipment.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2159303-rory-mcilroy-says-breakup-w...

Here's one in support of putting on muscle to help in a sport that is little more skill based and can be done competently by some fairly unfit blokes ;)

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/02/health/low-carb-vs-low-fat-diet.html?*...

Western 'scientific' 'nutrition' is an endless comedy show. The result... by far, the fattest, most obese societies to EVER exsist. This latest 'scientific' breakthrough has been common knowledge for some for centuries and centuries.

It's both a great story blindoy and great contributions from everyone.

I'm 52, have been doing weights consistently over the last 18 months. Wasn't looking to get 'big', but would be happy for that to be the result. I don't know why people would worry about that. Perhaps they have no idea how hard you have to work to get that bodybuilder look.

I did weights in my teens but never put on a lot of bulk, probably just wasn't eating enough and in retrospect did it at an age when they are now not recommending you do it, but, I did learn about the importance of 'form' while doing weights. I have found it laughable in the modern day pilates revolution that you have to exercise your core, as though doing weights (properly) somehow doesn't engage core muscle groups.

Much of what they are saying about weights which has been brought up in this forum was also well known in the 70's. It isn't actually that new.

The weights can't replace being genuinely 'surfing fit', but what it does is ensures that I don't become a blob of useless jelly in between surfs. Work, children, not being available to surf when it's good and often being unwilling to surf with my 300 best mates means that there can be periods where I don't get a lot of time in the water. But I want to be fit enough when I do go away, either for those long weekends or for the annual (bi-annual) trips to known surf destinations.

At my age, I can't let it go now. The slippery slope is slippery indeed. Correctly done, weights will help keep the structure in alignment, maintain a good balance, help rectify those ailments from too much computer work and poor posture.

I have had neck problems, pinched nerves, from sleeping badly etc, but invariably those were just the final nail brought about by other poor practices, bad posture, too much computer work, no strength exercises, etc. I don't get that prpblem any more.

But have never had bad back issues, am always aware of how my body is going, whether it feels in alignment, picking up on problems really early, not waiting until they become problems.

I am yet to find any joint problems that weren't fixed by concentrating on stretching and working the muscles around the joints as soon as you feel a bit of soreness. The human body works wonderfully well, an absolute design wonder, provided you address things early.

Being knowledgeable on how to stretch particular muscle groups is a very handy tool. Being conscious of how your body feels at any given point in time is going to mean getting on to problems before they lead to longer term issues.

Re my weights sessions, no more than 25 minutes, usually 3 times a week but sometimes I miss one here and there, and don't feel guilty about it. It doesn't actually take that much. I am stronger right now than I have probably ever been, and my surfing has not yet reached its peak.

.

And the 'latest' 'cutting edge' info is in... again. Please look away yorkedsurfer, and perhaps ring 000, as I remember when you were terrified, well, horrified, shocked to the core, stunned, and finally enraged, that I was secretly murdering and poisoning masses of unsuspecting people to death with fat and eggs, even your poor wife.

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/4126228.htm

I remember telling little sticks garnell this shit 30 years ago, then watching him grow into arnie/bricky garnell.

They, the bumbling, cheepers, whatdya know, we were wrong... again 'scientists' and 'experts', could have saved themselves and the population years of anguish, and money and resources, and just asked Lifty. I was going to include doctors, but no one is stupid enough to ask or listen to doctors about exercise and nutrition are they? Surely?

Sooner or later something about hormones will dawn on them too. No healthy, saturated fat, no cholesterol, no hormones. You know the irrelevant, zillions of things, the switches that trigger absolutely every human function.

Cellulose = plants. Cholesterol = humans.

At the moment there is a more ludicrous bungle doing the rounds. 'Stay out of the sun!!!' Blow the fucking thing up before it kills us. Who needs vitamin D anyway... it doesn't do much does it?

Was reading an article that delved into on the importance of increased strength after a certain level is achieved for athletes, whether time is better spent on sport specific training and also the possible negative effects of too much focus on strength training, quite an interesting read for anyone who is interested http://theathleticbuild.com/how-much-strength-is-enough/

Good article, its a tough one. The strength levels considered normal in NFL, even low, are way beyond most athletes. Try squatting 180 odd kgs for a dozen reps. Even one. Or benching 100 odd kgs for 20 - 30 reps. Or even one rep. A basic prerequisite for any NFL player to even get a look in. Here's a viewpoint of real figures over a long time frame.

http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/story/_/id/6933214/tmq-mel-kiper-jr-size-i...

So, in simple terms, one thing jumps out. If the heavy hitters are bigger, stronger, harder, faster, the pressure will be on the runners they are seeking to put out of action, to survive.

I, and my experiences agree with the time thing though. Heres something I wrote for a newspaper thing years ago.

Listening to some other athletes, where power, flexibility, endurance, maximum speeds (80 - 100 mph, yes mph) maximum carving/turning force production and forces coped with, and injury prevention are paramount, the view from the best is that the stronger the better. Carving, turning, jumping, powering in control, for longer than a few seconds at 100mph is... kind of impressive.

Ben Johnson risked all and got rubbed out trying to get stronger and stronger. As the fastest man in the world, he obviously wasn't debilitated by his strength. His squatting strength was legendary, as was Tyson's.

Here's the opposite view from a highly respected and credentialled strength coach.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/content/crossfit-functional-training-6079/

Its definitely a hot topic at the moment. I can say this though, the NFL has changed their training facilities back to highlighting power lifting and olympic lifting, which in the US is resonating through to personal training training providers. The NFL is complaining about trainers who are coming through with much emphasis on supposedly 'functional training' knowledge, which has proven over time to be useless, and to decrease performance. They are demanding trainers who know how to actually make people strong, and this will/is filtering through here. It goes in cycles, years ago the unbalanced/functional thing did the rounds, it has about 3 times during my experiences. I have found you will lose pure structural, athletic strength and power, due to working with less real load. You'll get awesome at balancing on a spring board though.

It is a big subject, which all elite athletes are highly interested in.

Which surfing publication or site did you glean the article from?

Intersting Uplift.
Good article.
"using the body's natural movement patterns while standing on the ground, the natural position for a bipedal human in its environment"
Sounds similar to my own research of Yowies the Bipedal aspect;)
Cheers
This a great thread and I often embark on reading this:)

Don't bite my head off Uppity but where does stamina enter in the equasion?

It's all well and good to bench press 100 kg for 20 -30 reps but what after that? I occasionally watch NFL and the game is so stop start the power is in short bursts, 4 or 5 seconds max, bang then re-set. The same with downhill skiing. All well and good that the skier is loading up with huge g's at 100 mph but it's not as if they hiked up to the top of the run in thigh deep snow beforehand is it?

We have a reef here that we surf, about a 45 minute paddle to get out there and about the same to get back. I tend to factor in the return paddle for my sesh to leave enough energy to get back. It's not a place to snap your leggie;)

So, all this power is well and good but what if you can't paddle out the back to use it?

No worries welly.

Sorry, but that's truly beyond comical, beyond ludicrous zenny. How did you find your amasing 'stamina' went squatting 180kg for 12? Try some 30 rep bodyweight on your back, breathing squats. I've had 'ironmen' and women, champ marathoners and triathletes throw up at a dozen. Even try 100 for 12, or 50 for 12. Or benching 100kg for 30? How many times do you think someone that can bench 100kg for 30, will bench the incredible weight you move? Likewise squatting. They will stop from boredom, not exhaustion. How long does a wave last in comparison to a down hill run? The forces you exert for rminimum time, and mimimum speeds are miniscule. What's the longest continual maximum effort in a surfing heat? Did you see the worlds greatest athlete RCJ and thunder when they broke that speed record, going heaps slower, and just doing nothing? There's tons of outside reefs everywhere, pretty much anyone who surfs can paddle to them. We have cliffs, walks too. Big deal. Everyone here does them. even coke and speed addicts and alcoholics. Truly, throw up if you like, but I do 30 - 40 strict body weight squats in a certain style, just for a warm up. Most people I give them to as a beginners workout to start with, crawl off squealing after 6, or 10. Surfers are even worse, if fact, usually the worst, many 'legends' can't do one. When I surfed outside reefs, I never bothered to factor in the paddle. We used to use it as training, a race. Next time your car is doing 100mph... well that is nothing to your stamina'd up quads eh!

Seriously, when I first went to Elliston I met this guy, brickie, that was a bit of a legend. Anyone that knows him knows he was a standout. I hardly knew him. For some reason, maybe because he is an idiot, after surfing a bit with me, he asked me about training. It was common knowledge that I lifted weights, had my gym set up. I used to stir the shit out of him. The same sort of assertions, disguised as 'questions' as you. people 'know' shit. Anyway, he soon saw he knew fuck all. I was younger then and couldn't give a fuck what anyone thought. Well, same now. Especially when they ask you shit, but really just want to give you the 'answer'. You know, knee's fucked, or I can lift nothing, but then, 'this is how you fix knees', and this is how you get strong.' So fuck off and just do it. Anyway we trained, I showed him heaps about training and eating, he got stronger, shitloads stronger, shitloads fitter, surfed even better, charged harder, and they started calling him arny, and brickie. He did it because as he was getting less and less fit, surfing worse and worse, losing all his endurance, becoming useless, he thought awesome, I'll keep doing it and get even worse! And I was so useless, especially endurance wise, he kept listening. Dumb fucker, kook. There ya go zenny, now you can sleep soundly, all curled up, your little world, safe, snug as a bug. Stupid NFL cunts... 'no faaarkin' stamina eh! Farkin Haynesey!!! He aint the best leaugue player anyway. Surfees are the best athletes in the world... drift was the best film ever made... The cunts just keep fucking up, and don't know how to capture the realism and magnificence of surfees... we need new producers, better scripts, better actors, better camera angles, better... we are so the best!!! Film us properly!!!

Here watch this. This is as many have posted about in other threads, the future of surfing, its already guiding it, and addresses the ice epeidemic as well. And the 'super elite athletes'. Its about the Pappas brothers. The cream of skating. World champs, took over skating. A couple of full blown coke, grog and bong junkies in their prime, as world champs, elite super athletes. They just blew it and went overboard into ice and heroin. Highlights are, the summary, they were introduced to coke and speed as little kids by the elite skating world, and the film finishes with an elite fuck you, I'm still a bad arse mo fucker! Just stick on the all day coke, speed, bongs and grog, and all is fine, you can be world champ. You can even see the slattsey/irons bros duel in it.

http://www.vice.com/read/all-this-mayhem-our-new-skateboarding-doc-is-ou...

The kids love it!

I dont want to, but I can just imagine your 'workouts' zenny.

Listen numbnut, it was a serious question and I wasn't providing the answer beforehand. I was genuinely interested in your response in regards to your views on stramina and I also used your example of a person pressing 100kg + for 20-30 reps. Surely you- big, humble, raw-boned, barrel chested, chiselled featured man mountain are not that insecure that you couldn't see that?

Anyway, I wasn't talking about a wave that lasts barely 5 seconds or a reef pass that involves a leisurely paddle out through the channel, I should have been clearer and referred to maybe a heaving 6ft beachie with no ease of ingress or egress. Surfing that for 3 or 4 hours and doing it well requires a modicum of stamina, would you not agree? Why do you get so defensive/evasive when somebody questions you about anything other than muscle mass?

For the record big fella, my workouts consist of bike to warm-up, weights, and then half an hour on the treadmill increasing the intensity every few minutes then swimming for half an hour to warm down. Probably doing it all wrong but hey, that's why I'm reading this thread. Also, I surf every time there's waves which could be once a week or every day- depends. Also, I don't drink, smoke, do any kind of drug and I'm doing my best to eliminate sugar.

So your royal smarminess, I won't ask you again. I'll sit back and watch others treat you with the contempt that you quite often deserve and cherry-pick some of the nuggets of goodness you occasionally provide in amongst the barrels of crap.

Your question is along the lines of, 'I won't end up too huge and muscle bound will I?' 'No, cheepers, we'll give you a special workout to make sure that doesn't happen!' You should be smarter than that, but your NFL filter is on high, without you even knowing.

I've never trained anyone who needs stamina in 40 odd years. I'm just a dumb fuck.

Heres a workout of an NFL player who can't make it.

100mph doesn't impress you? Doesn't require stamina to do that? Think.

Do what you like. Tell me if it helps. I'll try to survive.

Too easy. I love dunking them in at will, and making them wallow at the bottom of the barrels of crap. Its worth it for them though.

'For the record big fella, my workouts consist of bike to warm-up, weights, and then half an hour on the treadmill increasing the intensity every few minutes then swimming for half an hour to warm down. Probably doing it all wrong'

Exactly, yes you are.

horses for courses. i bet the pros in these clips could out lift, run, jump just about anyone. a lot of the average blokes that check this website could probably out paddle/surf them though without the 3 training sessions a day, personal trainers, dieticians, supplements, hormones, $$$ wank wank wank. no comparison.
the basics are relevant though. squats and deadlifts rule not matter what sport you do. surfing and work are about all ive ever relied on to keep fit. always had tight trapz and lower back pain because of them. a big session paddling or working meant i could hardly surf next day. upper body strentgh training and stretching didnt help probably made it worse. started focusing on squats/deads 8 months ago and now at 40 am fitter and stronger than ever no back pain.
its crazy how strong these muscles are. im no gym junkie and at 68kgs i wasnt built for strength but was suprised after training for a while i can comfortably squat 160kgs with a bar and am only stopping there coz im scared ill pop a knee, not getting muscle fatigue until i up reps to 15 or more?
works for me shouldve started years ago!

Good post Brett, but seriously mate if you're addressing your post to basketball jones above, you're wasting your time.

cheers. nah mate talking to anybody else who may have minor back issues and limited time for surfing and/or training. a bit of strength training wont make you a hgh vein popping roid head. watching these guys work the gym mirrors is seriously the funniest shit you'll ever see. everything in moderation

Zennsless, hopefully now you have settled. When you ask ludicrous questions, surely you just expect ludicrous answers. If you were truly interested in and committed to your health and your surfing fitness, or the ASP or whatever they call themselves performance as elite athletes, which they do call themselves, you would have already have had some, even a faint idea of the answer to your own question. Its really easy to find, especially in this day and age. I am lucky, well not really its a conscious choice, in that I receive a mountain of fitness info and dribble from a variety of professional sources daily. But I seek out my own experiences and reading, as, as per the Catylyst nutrition stuff I posted, I don't like being 'scientifically' led up the garden path for years and years and years. Long term experience is valuable. But anyone in this day and age can find out heaps to try, and to investigate if they want. Results don't lie. Results, not theories are what count. Like this highly argued point, which is honestly common knowledge in fitness, athletic circles.

'Physiological profiles of elite Alpine skiers reveal the importance of muscular strength, anaerobic power, anaerobic endurance, aerobic endurance, coordination, agility, balance, and flexibility. On-hill snow training and dryland training programmes should focus on the elevation of these fitness components. Physical characteristics of elite skiers reveal an average height and body mass. Today, successful skiers are taller and heavier than their predecessors.'

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3067309

However as in all aspects of fitness and nutrition, opposite arguments rage. Experience is the key. If you have a strength based athlete do aerobic training, ie running, bike riding, or high reps under constant load, and again, depending how they do it, the increased aerobic capacity will be extremely beneficial, especially where many repeated strength efforts are required. Because better circulation, equals better recovery, removal and replacement of waste products. So in say squat workouts, the squatter feels stronger, and for longer. So I always advocate it, especially if sporting performance is the goal.

Stamina is relative. To strength. Strength is foreign to many.

Again, don't confuse demonstratable, measurable athleticism with skill, a most common, fatal mistake. Your argument is exactly that brettwa. And neither the NFL players or surfers will stand a chance against an elite basketballer. And none of them will stand a chance against an elite darts player, and none of them against an elite table tennis player, and so on. Pretty basic really. So you are saying that if slater got less fit, less strong he would surf the same. Maybe you are right in the case of surfing, which many drug addicts excell at, and is related to skating by many, even on here, who cite skating's influence now and in the future. Again, if you look at the Pappas brothers story, a couple of scraggy, full blown, 24 hour a day, day after day, year after year, chain smoking, boozing, bonging and snorting junkies eating shit, dominated elite skating, the type of skating that most mimics surfing. The cream of skaters. World champs. Elite athletes... please. Junkies... yes. But as many have championed and pointed out, the shapers and future of contemporary surfing.

In relation to what I have said, and the article posted by joel eugine slattsey, that was in the publication surfee, well surfee, ummm, surfee... this quote stands out.

'I guess this whole thought process has just created more questions than answers for me. '

Which is not exactly confidence inspiring, but is common.

Gidday, car's not running, can you fix it?

'I guess this whole thought process has just created more questions than answers for me. '

Awesome, here's my credit card, go for your life, I think I'll get you to fix it!!!

There is a ridiculous amount of info bombarding people daily. If you change at every suggestion, you would never learn anything. Results don't lie. Find the mechanic that can show they have fixed plenty like that, and will be confident in doing so. Which is more far reaching than you may think. If your coach, trainer, friends whoever instill the 'who fuck'n has a clue' belief in you, then you are doomed. Think of the Catalyst show. The 'scientific' gel pack inventors fucked up, yet, years ago others knew the truth and were getting amasing results. Even pre internet the results could be found if you really wanted the truth. 'Scientific' gel packs made zillions though while they were fucking up.

Imagine if you ran you business like your fitness zensless.

Hello everyone, I'll be your english teacher,

'Probably doing it all wrong but hey... just pay at the front desk!'

Intensity is a hilarious, again extremely misunderstood topic too.

Thankyou. Apart from the last bit, that was the answer I was originally looking for.

My business is going along quite swimmingly thankyou.

You know, about 10 years ago I trained with a mate 3-4 days a week. No aerobic, all weights. He was an advocate of free weights and like you, good form. I won't tell you the weight I was lifting but over about 6 months I was pretty surprised at how much I could lift and the amount of reps I could push out. Spotting each other obviously helped because here I have nobody. I was in the best physical shape of my life. True or not, he said I have a good canvas to work with already. Kind of swimmers build, tall, big shoulders, small hips, long legs.

Anyway, here I kind of do what I think I should hence me telling you about my basic workout but as I get older it doesn't seem to work for me like it did that last 10 years or so. I seemed to have put more emphasis on aerobic fitness and while I can put in a pretty long sesh in the surf (not uncommon to surf 4 or 5 hours if the waves are good) I do feel I'm lacking in strength.

I've also taken steps to address my diet but having an almost exclusive Japanese diet, it's pretty hard to eliminate carbs. Rice and noodles are a pretty big part of it. I eat a lot of fish, chicken and pork but very little beef. I'm trying to cut out sugar but that shit is everywhere, it's easier said than done.

I don't know why I'm telling you this but when you pull your head in I quite enjoy what you have to say sometimes. And being my own boss and being very busy, with the only gym in my area opening at 0930 and closing at 2130, it's getting harder and harder to get there. So thanks for the response and I'm not asking you for anything but I appreciate the effort you go to sometimes.

any waves up you way Zen......so flat down here in shonun.....and no wonder you callya self Zen....nice answer to Uplift-san! wish I was that Zen!

Brutus, getting a bit antsy here. As flat a nuns nasty to use the parlance of our tiimes.

Had a nice head high sesh last Sunday, local beachie. Monday, all gone. Strong offshores all last week so hanging for a go out.

Saw a wild pig on the beach while drying off the other week. Ask your hosts about 'Inoshishi stew' (Wild pig stew) the Jappy's love it. I think you're a vego though if I recall?

He's ok, he just loves to wind people up (and does so successfully). I kind of look at him like that embarrassing uninvited uncle that rocks up at Christmas time;)

yeah they all told me should have been here last week...ahhhhhh...spent 5 weeks here this year and nada......not even got wet....I could be the Jinx.....

uncle uppity....I like

If anyone is interested try this for 30 days everyday, pretty good, a little hard to start with but you get better each and every way, ENJOY ;)

I like the truth in it welly, in that he's making people work harder than they dream of. Not fluffing up some, 'this will be quick, easy and feel so nice' bullshit. Here's a viewpoint. Sure its an advertorial, but I've watched lots of tapes of him train people, and he uses many methods I like re increasing intensity, ie, negs, rep speed, isometrics, cutting rest periods, etc.

http://www.menshealth.com/fitness/shaun-t-motivation

As I mentioned I've spent the last week doing some stuff with a circus strongman/acrobat. Huge, extremely muscular guy, looks like a bodybuilder. So athletic, a genuine machine. We talked about recovery, training and performing injured etc. And getting stronger. Building muscle. About the pressure to survive in the industry, keeping the demanding crowd happy with unbelievable stunts and performances, where errors are judged ruthlessly by both crowd, and moreso employers, and where a relentless stream of similar performers are battling for the same positions. Comical to hear about pro surfers going on about their feeble in comparison workouts making them feewl tho sthore and sthtiff. He came into the gym Friday arvo, trained at a level that no pro surfer would begin to approach, as do most elite athletes, even having practiced the act for a couple of hours that morning, as do most elite athletes, and then did a full on acrobatic, strongman routine that night, as do most elite athletes, that had the crowd shocked.

Yeah all good UP Man.
I started doing "Sean T"s Insanity but found it really hard on my knees....??
Then he came out with the "T25" workout program 10 week style, Alpha, Beta Gamma etc etc.
I found this way, a lot less stress on the knees, altho doing Insanity on a steel helideck probably never helped as well as the movements, very side to side stuff which never helped me with previous knee injuries.
I like the "T25" as its intense and a great mentored focus work out. Trying to mix this up with the Tabata style workout as well, only to shred weight...;)

Cheers for your input again on this thread your shoulder routine worked a treat, respect big fella, again thanx heaps.

Anyone reading this give the above Tabata style workout by "Sean T" a real go and see what you think, challenge ya;)

You raise a good point welly. Rule one, training prevents injury. Never causes it. One issue with programs like that. The same issue plagues 'group fitness' also. Those style of things work only if the individuals have no existing issues. And a sound understanding of good form, technique. Plus, its difficult to truly teach the systems, that is perfect techniques, in a way that deals with each individual's unique comprehension, understanding, and learning. Thats a major reason why I decided to specialise in on on one, or a personal style of training very early on. That way, exactly what you have described is catered to, and addressed.

Stoked your shoulders are good. Stoked you made the effort. I'd love to show you some knee stuff. I've had some amasing results. Even now, I have clients who have had major knee issues, and tried so many different things, some after surgery, some who were advised to have surgery, who are powering, as if they never had a problem. Experience has shown me that in a way, its much simpler than many think. Much applies to all. Its just knowing how to tweak that, and individualise it. To find a starting point. That is different for everyone.

A bottom line is this though. Whatever the situation, those people will get out of chairs, beds, move, hobble, walk bend, whatever, to the degree required to live in our culture. No matter what their scans or reports say. They have to get to treatment, they have to live, somehow. Squat. Lunge. Bear weight. Function. So the better they understand how to do that, the stronger, more resilient the structure/s, the fitter they are, the more anabolic, thriving, the better. And so the best shot at healing. Growing. How to facilitate that without creating more problems? I have learned that. I could post a pile of references backing that call. I have the results. References are a part of this field. Results. I would love to show you some knee stuff. If you are interested I'll make one of those videos. I know beyond doubt it will make a huge difference to your knees. The hard part is not being in person. Where I can really see what is happeneing. Not being able to convey exactly what I want to. In person is easy. I do 25 - 30 sessions weekly, over my life thousands and thousands, that part is easy in person. Second nature. For example a mate was just here, who I have helped with his back for years. He won't mind the truth. Its a pain in the arse. I do it all day, and want a break, but want to help him. So he comes over for a week, or few days, and I spend the nights with him, trying to condense months worth. He says he'll do whatever, but I already know he doesn't. Every time he goes back, for a while its getting good, then it all goes out the window, then back again. I send him videos write shit, tons, knowing his comprehension of that is what it is, coloured. When I see him, we laugh what he has turned it into. WTF? This year I let him have it. Same thing, over he comes, have a look at night, his progress is piss weak. Fuck all effort. What the fuck he was doing fuck knows. So I set up that he could train with a mid forties lady with 2 kids that I train. Kicked his fucking arse, flogged him. Made him look like a squealing baby, next to the woman. In front of his wife. A grown man. It snapped him into reality. We did a couple of good sessions after that. Then he went home. Now he's sending reports powering. Putting in some focus. No excuses. Doing his best. Feeling the best he's can remember feeling. But, its still better if I could train him, that's the reality. Its just what it is. Its my passion, my job, and I have over 40 years experience. It dumbfounds me why he wouldn't be even more passionate about his own back. When I see him in pain. That's not true though. Our culture... life. Work, people just trying to stay alive. So its not always so easy. Our culture couldn't give a fuck. Take a panadeine forte... get back to it, keep production up... or else!!! You can easily be replaced, new parts are comin' off the line every second!!! Maximum production, parts are replaceable.

Anyway if you are interested maybe next weekend I'll try and video something, post it, and show you some knee stuff. Its really easy and safe to incorporate into your routine. Up to you, no offense if you aren't interested.

Quote UpMan"The same issue plagues 'group fitness' also. Those style of things work only if the individuals have no existing issues. And a sound understanding of good form, technique."

Spot on there champ, as for a great example when doing "Insanity Work Outs" I tried to keep up with them on the visual computer workout, IE the same speed ,,,, wrong wrong wrong shit , my mistake eh...... ...?
No!!!!! I said to myself...! concentrate on form rather than speed, so in the end I focused on form ,rather that keeping up with the well hard fitness gurus who are where they are at an optimum fitness level, compared to the average surfer.........! OOooops did I say surfer;)

Lets forget about surfers UpliftMan and concentrate on just fitness for the norm...
Which i try, just to lose weight and get fitter rather than putting muscle mass on, which I do not need when surfing....!

"Quote the Bigfella..So the better they understand how to do that, the stronger, more resilient the structure/s, the fitter they are, the more anabolic, thriving, the better. And so the best shot at healing. Growing. How to facilitate that without creating more problems? I have learned that. I could post a pile of references backing that call. I have the results. References are a part of this field"

I understand that Uplift, like I have said before your shoulder work out in the last pages worked a fucking treat champ, cheers again;)

Looking forward to the next knee rehab cause my knees have gone fucked as bro, not sure if its from walking up and down stairs on oil rigs all the time.......! Which i have left now, anyways I started walking every step out there concentrating on every step in the negative and calf raising it thru to the the next step....? See what I'm saying...? Wow yhe littele calves I have turned pretty different very quick after 3 weeks.... hahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahah,,trainhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahhahahahahhah,always,hahahahhahahahahhahahahhahahhahhhahahahhaahhahhahahawhenwalkingeverywherehahahhhahahhahahhahahahhahahahahhahahahhahahahhahahhahahahhahahahhhahhahahahahhahahhahahhahahah...!
Anyways;)

"Kicked his fucking arse, flogged him. Made him look like a squealing baby, next to the woman. In front of his wife. A grown man. It snapped him into reality"
Hahhahah thats gold, I suppose you need to keep in a reality mode eh....!

" Its just what it is. Its my passion, my job, and I have over 40 years experience"

Yeah I know Mick that's why I keep coming back to you as your workout helped my shoulder champ..;), for real, that's why I'm here to get some real leg shit going on...;)
This will obviously help in big turn surfing and some all day turns snowboarding.

Lets get it going on, I'm not in a position at the moment to fly your ways and hang for a week, maybe in the future, as I have respect for your style of training...;) Fuck the other cunts.....:)))

No worries welly, I'll video something next weekend and post it. You are on the right track. Slow is great for rehab. F = MA, simple. Control F at first for rehab. Easy on the joints, but very safe, very hard work at the same time, on the muscles, tendons and ligaments. And overall fitness. Awesome for blood flow and creating the tension that signals adaptation. As an example, try doing a super strict pushup, 30 secs down, 30 up. This style below is strict, re hand position, elbow angle, tightness, (protecting shoulders), body bracing , eliminating momentum, focusing on chest, tricep, etc. She did 20 reps, 4 secs down/hold and flex, 2 up/ hold and flex, constant tension, constant work for the whole body, then 6 pulses. Circulatory system actually has to work. No sneaking little rests. Notice as she tires, correcting reaching with her neck, which is common. The body always looks for an escape. You don't let it escape. You own it.

https://www.facebook.com/350538261623169/videos/vb.350538261623169/47549...

Then try gradually building up to 60/60. For your knees, we will start at 10/10 for a few reps. Deluxe for building a powerful, and unconscious mind/muscle link. Nervous system. So that whatever you do, the right structures are activated. In an extreme example, think about when the typical unfit, elderly person falls. Like a sack of spuds hitting the deck. Nothing activates, so bones and ligaments take a full pounding, kaboom, dead weight. A trained person reacts, constantly, switched on unconsciously. That's one goal in the bullet proofing knees thing. Unconsciously switched on, plus a pattern where force is distributed better, ie hips, glutes.

Knees are a real catch 22, well, all injuries are. Its only natural to try and protect them, however, that inadvertantly creates patterns that weaken surrounding areas. Which in turn hammers and weakens knees. In the case of knees, glutes. So then back. Calves and hammies are important too. The cycle must be changed. Most tend to focus on what can be seen, quads etc. Or regarding whole body, chest, bicep. Front and side delt, etc. But balance is crucial.

Anyway, no worries, we're on it.

Speaking of the balance thing, here I am training the same lady, balancing.

https://www.facebook.com/350538261623169/videos/475496169127377/

Oh no!!! Oh dear!!! Look away yorkless, as you've previously lamented... proven murderous intent following.

Anyway, better late than never... aye!!! Good 'ol bloody Lifty!!!

"10 years from now we’ll look back and say, 'What on Earth were people thinking when they were eating all this sugar and refined carbohydrate?'" Brukner claims.'

Even though its was said by some... 30 odd years ago.

“We replaced butter with margarine – possibly the worst health decision that’s been made in the history of mankind.”

https://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/mens-health/a/28467563/peter-brukner-talk...

And whats this shite... aye... not even 3 farrkin' minutes... WTF?

http://mashable.com/2015/04/23/obesity-exercise-uk-study/?utm_cid=mash-p...

'Why did they ignore him? Because the greatest minds of his time couldn't understand him.'

They mighta got 'Boltzy' and the lads, but not big Lifty though!!! They shoulda hit the weights...

All done welly, just got to get in on youtube for here.

Tiger Woods has slumped to 180th in the world because...... wait for it...... he's been going to the gym!

Now, now, now zinger, thats stretching the already somewhat 'stretched' 'slump' even further.

'http://www.sportinglife.com/golf/news/article/585/9889531/tiger-woods-in...'

Did you catch up with Kiwi? You never went near a gym... so what caused your, well, some might label it a stretched slump, perhaps more of a hump, or a lump... bump... whatever ya want call it? Perhaps its time to curtail the, the well... the ever stretching... and hit the gym!!!

Sorry Mickey B, he has been going to the gym look at those arms. His coach said in the article i read that he looks like a grid iron quarterback. stronger arms mean a quicker more powerful swing which equals speed which means his hands come through before the club head leaving the face open and every shot slices into the fucking trees! Soon as he sells the gym gear he will get better.

The chicks love him now though zinger.

Hello Mr lift . having reached well over 40 years I'm now injured (it seems )almost every month. always been fit and i like to keep body strong. Never having been to gym ,Have You any advice as to what questions to ask regarding routines for the middle aged surfer? I am interested in increasing strength for surfing,sailing, mountain biking. I recently made a Bulgarian bag 40kg for squats and take form very seriously also do body weight pull ups and dips
I'm a lightweight! !Love your entertaining posts good on ya.

Looking forward to your knee rehab vid also uplift.

as this is the place for free fitness advice ;)....can anyone explain wtf is with the ITB in my left knee. geez its annoying. cant run more than about 4km without it flaring up. since i like running its a really frustrating condition....not the sort of thing you can push through. i hear its linked in with lack of hip/glute strength? is that really so? why just on my left side. anyone else get this....swimming, surfing, gym all ok, just running causes it.

Gidday Welly, (and anyone interested), I finally got the thing uploaded and working on youtube. What a fucking mission. I tried to give as much detail as I could, its enough to make a good start, and ask anything that you might want to. Its in 4 parts, the first link is warmup, starting on back always, then squatting, a bit of leg pressing. The second is leg pressing. Third deadlifting, and fourth deadlifting. This will fully address a lot of knee issues, but I do want to do a bit with leg extensions and leg curls, which are deluxe if used correctly. Especially for the guy with one knee playing up, even though what I have shown will help him heaps. Also because if used wrongly those exercises, leg extensions and leg curls, can destroy knees, and backs.

The style of deadlifting and squatting that I advocate is to balance everything, whilst working through a full range of motion. For instance, if maximum weight is the goal, deadlifting ( and squatting) can be altered to maximise glute/hip participation, and pure leverage. That’s not my goal. My goal is to steer adaptation in the direction that I believe is best for all round performance, fitness and health... which also means long term. So I use the style of deadlift where as much quad as possible is required. Maximum weight is still very much a goal, but not at the expense of that direction, where form is crucial.

The type of leg press machine used is best, as many good leg press machines have sleds that weigh a lot, and aren’t ideal for my style of rehab. Once knees are strong, then you can shift to them.

With regard to deadlifting, a power rack is the ultimate tool, but ingenuity can devise ways to work at the required heights/levels.

I have used these methods on many bad knee issues, with deluxe results. I am around 60, squat, deadlift and leg press regularly, with decent loads, and have deluxe knees, so am confident in my advice. The methods as simple as they may appear, address many issues, and ingrain an unconscious, and corrective pattern that is effective in performance and protection. But like anything, you have to actually do it. I've touched on this before, but think of say Gary Ablett Jr. A year of a constant, intense level of rehab that the average person can not begin to approach, and still not fixed. Yet, often the average person wants better results in a couple of hours, spread over a few weeks. Or gets bored. Comical. Hobbling for years into the coffin is boring.

No worries zenny. I'll change it. Does it mean that you can't see that link, or just that no one else can find it?

Its changed now anyway. To be honest, I don't like doing this, so I only did it for here, and don't mind if its not easy to find. As, especially deadlifts, are a double edged sword. They are awesome if done really well, but dangerous if not. And, its no one's fault, but many people can do the opposite to what they think they are, until they really understand and re pattern something. But, if they do as I say, minimum loads and levels till perfected, all is good. Much long term experience has taught me that often what is said is misconstrued and coloured, and ends up nothing like the desired result. Its why I truly prefer all this in person. And why I try to convey so much detail. Often I train people for a few sessions, see them months later, and its comical what they have turned the sessions into, if they really have ingrained habits. but a video is pretty good to refer too. And mirrors are an awesome tool.

Good shit Micko.
Just watched the first vid, very impressed on how you are teaching the technique without weights, like you say you can get an awesome leg workout doing those. I like, hey doing those squats for 30 secs is a good burn without a doubt.
Just practised a few before and you can feel and concentrate on each muscle group;)

Looking forward to the deadlift as many people including yourself rave about it and I can see in this first vid where you are getting the muscles trained for the technique towards this exercise.
Great technique and posture for Giant Slalom downhill skiing;)
I bet ya ski eh.
Cheers, will watch later.

No worries welly. No I don't ski, but as I am interested in sports performance, hard to not be impressedby the down hillers, re all round glute/leg, hinging performance, and dealing with ridiculous amounts of force at unmatched carving speeds.

Now, oh dear... oh my... winkie. Sorry? Sorry? Traitor!!!

'Sorry Mickey B, he has been going to the gym look at those arms. His coach said in the article i read that he looks like a grid iron quarterback. stronger arms mean a quicker more powerful swing which equals speed which means his hands come through before the club head leaving the face open and every shot slices into the fucking trees! Soon as he sells the gym gear he will get better.'

Yet as I said... oh dear... oh no... my poor befuddled winkity!!!

'Official World Golf Ranking: week ending June 21, 2015

1 1 Rory McIlroy 12.77 625.97 49 196.48 281.34'

Read more at http://www.golftoday.co.uk/tours/rankings/world_current.html#9bfdaLhE2UL...'

Please, please look away zinger...

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/golf/pumping-iron-has-helped-world-n...

http://www.pga.com/news/golf-buzz/rory-mcilroy-lifts-ridiculous-amount-w...

http://www.cbssports.com/golf/eye-on-golf/25113064/rory-mcilroy-lifted-w...

However, despite the some what treacherous... even traitorous... cunning, yet ludicrous bumbling, I wont desert you zinger!!!

'Yes Mr Lifty, welcome, thank you for responding, this is the Crescent Heads retirement villa... my God, you are a big, raw boned, good looking, muscular unit aren't you! We have Mr Winkie ready for his workout. But we must warn you that he's lost his marbles, and refuses to do his weights sessions. The other trainers are getting no where with his treacherous outbursts and tirades!!!'

'No problem nurse... and no, sorry I'm married... as difficult as it will be for you, please forget me. Where is the treacherous, traitorous swine?'

'Good morning Mr Winkie, here's your new trainer... yeeees... yeeees, of course you were Mr Winkie. Now, now, just take your pills, and Mr Lifty here will take you for a nice drive... to'the gym'... for your workout. Here's the keys to the dump Mr Lifty... no need to return them, we have another set... bye now Mr Winkie!!!'

dear oh dear, get me a drink and maybe some pills ! when was your last surf Micky B ? I just got out the water. You need some salt water to flush out that gym juice that obviously irritates your baggy singlet and your tight leotards. May be back home on the west coast soon,might come and visit your gym,i need a good laugh. Ha Ha!

You do remember when you said this... zinger... and why... in this forum...

'Soon as he sells the gym gear he will get better.'

Yeh, the idiot. I can just hear the frenzied screeching over the lineup at cressles!!!

'Eeeeeaaa shooouuuuld fllloooorg vem faaarkin' waits, vat stupid faaaarkin cunt McIlfuckin' Roy!!! Yaaar ownly got tar faaarkin numba won yaaar faaarkin cunt, flllooorg vem faaaarkin waits if yar wonna beee numberrr faaarkinnn.... oiiiiiiii... ayyyeee you 'orn the faaarkin blow up faaarkin seee orse', faaark oooorf thats my faaaarkin slab!!!!'

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/golf/pumping-iron-has-helped-world-n...

'Official World Golf Ranking: week ending June 21, 2015

1 1 Rory McIlroy 12.77 625.97 49 196.48 281.34'

Read more at http://www.golftoday.co.uk/tours/rankings/world_current.html#9bfdaLhE2UL...'

As with all the sports (the good 'ol boys) that vehemently rejected weight training, early days yet, and the common mistakes will slowly be ironed out... so to speak!

"As a whole, the program looks sound. Rory talks a lot about how much he enjoys his training and has seen an improvement. That’s probably the most important part—that the athlete buys into the program.

That said, the destabilized core rotation drill at the end of the video is out of place. A lot of those destabilized exercises have been debunked through study. The idea behind these moves was that a destabilized surface like a Swiss or BOSU ball would engage more stabilizing muscle fibers in the core. The term 'functional' training was born out of that philosophy, and it’s a misnomer. A destabilized exercise might engage your stabilizers, but it doesn't do it as effectively as just picking up a heavier weight.

Mark Rippetoe probably said it best: 'Functional training is an exercise method that places the balance problem ahead of the force-production problem.' In layman’s terms, Rory would be better off if he just tried to get stronger.'

Talking about tiger not rory.

Thanks for the vids uplift,superb work,i've managed the slow form squats full reps for a few days now,is it a good idea to continue with these for a period say couple weeks,before trying weight,to train form?also should the full slow routine be done as a warm up prior to weights each session.how many sessions per week is advisable for the beginner?Thanks Man.

Gidday spidermonkey, no worries, glad you're using them. Good stuff.

So if you can do the heels elevated form, for two reps, 30 secs up, 30 down, yeh stick on them for 8 weeks. If you don't have access to a leg press, simply do a third set. If you do have a leg press, work on all the form elements shown in that also, and work on adding weight, but always checking your form. Never add weight at the expense of the form. Otherwise, that's all it will end up being. An expensive waste.

Do them, along with the deadlifts, 3 times a week, say Mon, Wed, Fri for 4 weeks, then drop back to twice a week, ie, Mon/Thurs or Tues/Fri, etc. It will condition your form, enable you to work on breathing, core tightness, knee tightness etc, back position etc, etc. Check all the things I mention in the videos. Simultaneously your knees will love it, it will balance and strengthen them safely, gorge them with blood, which equals healing. Also, at the same time, deliberately learn to make them harder with your mind, squeeze tighter, flex harder, harder, each rep teach yourself to pump tighter and tighter. More tension.

Imagine that as your goal, pumping tighter and tighter, both lifting and lowering. That is awesome for fitness, mental toughness, concentration, nervous system condition, which will then transfer through into your deadlifting, and then as you mention, later squatting with weights on your back.

Work hard in the same 8 weeks to get your dead lift form/strength perfected also. Which will also be a huge help to squatting with weight. Later in a few weeks maybe, I'll do a video on squatting with weight.

So yeh, do the cat arches, then the warm up 25 squats, either with straps, or heels raised, depending on the level you have reached, then do as described above. Remind yourself that recovery is crucial, its when you actually get fitter, so allow yourself time to recover. Beginners can't work as hard as advanced, so need less recovery. They still need recovery though. Keep at it, that also is beneficial conditioning. Being patient. You are doing well, good on you.

Now... winkie... I don't blame you for not wanting to mention, or talk about McIlroy... tiges roar.

'Woods, who is tight with McIlroy, said he has not steered him away from heavy lifting. Just the opposite.

"I encourage it," Woods said. "You've got to be explosive. The ball is not moving. We've got to move it out there, and the only way to do that is to be fast."'

As has been pointed out to you, Woods has many issues affecting him. His back problems, from his early pre weight training days, which threatened to totally cripple him, end his career, and required major surgery, and which are still debilitating, are just one. He often discusses many others, personal issues, which have been raised by others to you also. He has never cited weight training as a problem, in fact, just the opposite. He mightn't even be walking without it.

Still... there are ways of 'knowing things'. Maybe you 'know' somethings Woods, even Roar for that matter don't? Maybe you have 'accessed'... well, been 'privy'... so to speak... 'privy' to 'secret' information... information only known previously, by really, really, really old guys? Something deep in Woodsy's and Roar's minds that only you, with the help of these 'privy' really really really old guys, have, somewhat suddenly, accessed and have become 'privy' too? In your quest for 'truth'?

Or perhaps, you are adopting this type of shall we say, 'swillnut' stance'? Its starting to sound like it?

Whichever one... zinger... despite this Winkie Iscariot outburst, I forgive you... I always have... you know that. Don't crucify and hate tiges, with his stinking evil weights, don't hate and curse the roar for being no 1, because of his stinking evil weights, in golf... of all things! Just let Lifty bear the load, load up the big Lifty shoulders, that's what they're for!!! Load the fuckers up!!! Let them Lift you on high!!! In this, the resurrection... following the somewhat 'golden'... 'enchanted' even reclusinationaryilist period which I have been forced out of.

G'day uplift. Would similar exercises be used for strengthening the hip area. Doc tells me the right hip pain I get is due to arthritis and strengthening the area would help?
Cheers

Gidday dingdoctor, yeh, I have used them quite often, and in fact at the moment with several clients, for that very thing, including for people with labral tears, which can be really problematic. I would alter for a while, say a few months, by keeping deadlift reps high, in the 15 -20 range, and weights light, to push more blood to the area. Genuine arthritis is a disease though, and nutrition is really important. Well, it is anyway. Pretty much crucial, which I was going to raise soon anyway.

I recommend all clients who are diagnosed with arthritis to have high amounts of good quality fish oil, or if vegetarians flax oil, like these.

http://www.arthritis.org/living-with-arthritis/treatments/natural/supple...

https://www.vitaminking.com.au/Arctic-Cod-Liver-Oil-237ml-by-Nordic-Natu...

http://www.pharmacydirect.com.au/product/melrose-flaxseed-oil-500ml-0079...

For vegetarians its a really grey area, still arguments both ways, but I recommend these with the flax.

http://www.iherb.com/Ovega-3-Omega-3s-DHA-EPA-500-mg-60-Veggie-Softgels/...

Or if out of stock, these.

http://www.iherb.com/Deva-Vegan-Omega-3-DHA-EPA-300-mg-90-Vegan-Softgels...

Play around with amounts, higher than you think, think tablespoons daily. Oils can muck around with some peoples stomachs (runs) so ease into them.

Then use these. In my 40 odd years, I have seen enough to know they are effective for anyone's joint health. Among other things. Many weightlifters and powerlifters swore/swear by them. Still, a grey area, but, when shark cartilage burst on the scene, it took over all this style of thing. Even though its not very, if at all effective. Here's the best quality, and price gelatin. Get both forms, couple of table spoons of each a day. Just chuck it in smoothies, porridge, mix in yoghurt etc. No taste. Good protein as well. Very safe.

http://www.gelatinaustralia.com.au/collections/all/products/peptipro-bee...

Here's some reading on gelatin.

http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/why-broth-is-beautiful-essenti...

Finally these:

http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Curcumin-Phytosome-500-mg-60-Veggie...

These type allow curcumin to be useable, and my clients report benefits.

Do your own research on the above, and make your own mind up. However I recommend all of my hard training clients use the above, whether they have arthritis, joint issues or not. Higher doses if they have.

At happyas, well anyone interested. By now you might see, even the likes of dingdoctor, that whatever your ailment, you will squat, you will deadlift, you will lunge. You'll just name them differently, maybe walking, climbing steps, reaching, maybe getting in/out of a chair, car, bed, couch, maybe lifting the garbage bags, surfboard, grandkids, kids, dog, whatever. You have no choice. So the better you are at it, and the fitter (stronger), the safer and more comfortable. Its beyond stupid for a specialist to recommend never to squat, or lunge, and then watch you get out of a chair, and walk out. Again you have no choice. Would it be more dangerous in everyday life, where there is no one telling you about strict form, no checking that, no checking breathing, monitoring load, performance etc, or, in a controlled situation, where all of the above are diligently followed? Beyond, beyond stupid. Run, don't walk, from those 'specialists' that preach don't squat etc. Beyond, beyond stupid.

If you begin to grasp hinging, then you see it effects hips, knees, back, ankles and so on. So, any of that chain can be drastically effected by improper, or proper hinging. Including ITB, happyas. Blood heals. That band simplified, is one component of hinging, that keeps things aligned. There is the opposite, inner, also. To balance out alignment. Keep it simple. So by aligning, monitoring alignment continually (mirrors), and controlling all variables, with a desired result and target in mind, controlling range, speed, load, tension, form, breathing, muscle recruitment... the groove, (form/technique/pattern), we can balance out and improve (fitness) any weakness's in the hinging chain, and promote their healing if injured. Whilst ingraining a new movement habit, an unconscious pattern which is beneficial. Rather than the present opposite one.

You could do more, sometimes its good to, to help bring up weakness's quicker, pinpoint and gorge an area with more blood. So, say for happyas, and dingdocter hip adduction and abduction is really good, along the same lines. Slow, controlled. Same progression. These machines are deluxe for that.

Outer:

http://www.fitdir.com/media/catalog/product/i/n/inflight_ctmio_inner_out...

Inner:

http://www.teachpe.com/images/jenny/m-adductor.jpg

But these on any low pulley set up, are great too.

For balance:

However, use same elements re form, speed progression as in the free/strap squats vid. I posted.

For happyas, leg extensions might be good. As it is your knee end of ITB which is inflamed. Doing them will strengthen and teach an improved, balanced knee pattern of movement, without really involving ITB, and simultaneously pump blood to the injured region, promoting safe healing.

Rehab is rehab. It can be tedious, but must be done, diligently until real improvement is seen. Then, ease back into a higher load. Running for happyas. Much less for now, stop before pain, when you are much fitter and stronger from the rehab, increase running load gradually. Be patient

Hope this helps.

Thanks mate

harls._ instagram
Have you ever seen back /muscle definition like the first vid

Can you post a link? I might be deluxe but can't see it.

However I will say definition is a result of diet. Sometimes and or drug use.

More important is what the muscle can do. No one has more definition than a top professional bodybuilder, who in that state is dysfunctional and on the verge of death. Starving, malnourished people have amazing definition too.

thoughts on kettlebell swings Herc?

I worked late, and then stayed up late writing that Nunga stuff free, and had an early start and have heaps of PT's today, but I will answer later if I get a decent break, because it's a good question.

Regarding kettlebells, and my take, based on around 45 years of training experience, and at over 60, still averaging between 1500 - 1600 PT sessions yearly, I rarely use them. For many reasons. A full set of kettlebells that is able to truly address progressive resistance, one of the key elements to building muscle, and thus addressing injury and building strength and fitness, costs a fortune for starters. Plus it is totally impractical. Even lugging one 32kg bell around is a pain in the arse. On that, so if people tell me they want them because they can travel with a full gym, which is the image often portrayed, the truth is nothing like that. For that purpose nothing comes close to the TRX style straps, which address very well all points mentioned.

However I am very competent in kettlebell use, and often instruct people in their use. Swings are one of the most abused exercises going. First things first though. The first thing anyone should do is have a crystal clear picture of what they want to achieve/address. The next thing is to have a crystal clear picture of their present condition. Injuries, medical conditions, and level of fitness. For a really fit, injury free, competent trainer, kettle bells can work. With limitations. Ever seen a 200kg kettlebell? Even a 100kg kettlebell?

Swings are a ballistic exercise. Which makes it difficult to gauge the actual forces that the body is subject to, a genuine concern if rehab is the focus. F= MA. If we control A, for a given mass, we always know the force we are dealing with, and always have the desired force. The level a kettlebell user is working at can also be misrepresented too. Often the increased skill/momentum, in the hands of an incompetent trainer when swinging, actually means working less. The muscles get rests. Reasons not to adapt. Only skill has adapted.

If swings are used to mimic, and thus improve sporting patterns, that has been shown to lead to less performance . Nothing hones the skill of a sport, like the sport. Its a huge topic.

If strengthening the structures involved in the swillnut banned, despised topic of hinging, a vital component of any movement creating drive, there are safer more effective options, especially in the long term. I've covered all this stuff in detail, as have other reasoned, swillnut, expert (when they are not injured) trainers.

But, for those that want to use kettlebells, including swings, this is one of the best books/instructions I have seen. Mind you, I was around when Tsouline first burst on the scene in the US, sans kettkebells. Still, its a really excellent book re kettlebell use.

https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313...

I meant to put this in too. This is a good option for those wanting a set of kettlebells without much room. It has the feel of a solid kettlebell, and a nice handle, unlike any other adjustable options I've seen. I have bought them from here, and recommended others to, and it is reliable and safe.

https://www.factoryfast.com.au/p/adjustable-32kg-kettlebell-weight-set-h...

Crypto..do you know anything about a muscle problem that happens to Gyprockers scaffolders or people that use power tools or work with heavy things day in day out in the overhead position
A muscle forms or mutates for want of a better word in the upper torso somewhere that eventually presses on a artery reducing bloodflow that causes heart attack
Can happen at any age ..the fix being remove a rib to remove the muscle.

What are the best hinging exercises?

mmented THURSDAY, 13 SEP 2018 at 12:36AM
Well, well, well. Oh dear. Again... in a nutshell!!!!?? The man? WSL? Kelly's invite only party... orders to simply take the NW?

'It should be the story of the year . Surfers vs The Man !'

'Well it’s time to pick a side and post your colours to the mast people .'

'Fuck that and fuck them.'

'Don’t let the bastards within cooee of the joint in the first place.'

'It’s ours not theirs.'

'And here’s a hint - if you’re pondering whether to side with Australian crew that live to surf their local waves and want to protect them or from an avaricious seppo who thinks that cause he can buy a few select individuals and a toy bureaucracy with an overinflated sense of importance it’s that you should remember this -'

'We’re paying attention, fellas.'

Oh the sickening, conniving, treacherous gushing gusto!!! In a nutshell!!!

https://www.swellnet.com/news/swellnet-dispatch/2018/09/11/letters-editor

'Each showed the potential of the pool. Kelly Slater placed third but that was largely due to questionable scoring, a point made by Longtom over at BeachGrit. A point that he, in fact, made repeatedly.'

'The magical waters of Lemoore were a saviour to the GOAT’s crook hoof. Alas, he’d no sooner exited the medicinal brine then the effects were wearing off. “I'm not planning on going to Europe," Slater told Rosie Hodge. And back onto compo he goes.

Bit too much Baldy bashing?'

'Great stuff.

The call on “ A few good men “ is all time.

As for the wave tub - I imagine the cankers at WSL are pissing themselves over the fact that some deluded souls are convinced that the business theyre running is in any way a fair and equitable sporting competition. Consequently I highly suspected that Slater was going to get shunted through his comp in order to aid promotion of their septic tank and therefore put him on my fantasy surfer team despite his total inability to compete with the new crew in anything less than heaving barrels.

And the men behind the curtain didn’t let me down .

The WSL can suck my penis'

Well, well well. What a outpouring of... of... but, wait a minute, as I said, surfing now has its own bbruce. Cunning traitors, who masquerade as brave, gushing saviors, whilst skulking around behind the scenes. Ala 'killer from Chis'. Ship jumper the Abbertons called him. And did they make him pay!!! I'll never forget, the sweaty, pasty, quivering desperation, then, the utter, helpless devastation. Befitting a grovelling 'ship jumper'. ahh yes treacherous, skulking ship jumpers are in our midst. And we also have a few good, brave, pristine, uninjured, raw boned, good looking, undefeated... men. in a nutshell!!! 'A few good men', who, alone, unfazed, undefeated, rose up, when called on, again, and again, and again, and again... (did I say again), and stuck it to the 'man'...

And who are these few good men, these men of foresight... riding big, riding strong, alone... the only ones not swayed by the blind bunch...

Yes, these 'good men' Lifty, Lassie, Two Words, Pikachu, The Truth, Penetration, Herc, Krypto...

Foresight.

'But Pro surfing wants to be like NFL etc. Where money talks. It is there to make money. NFL makes ridiculous amounts of money in comparison.'

'Any sporting business, or market, trying to create the perception of elite athleticism would be extremely concerned that no one is buying it. That its best ever doesn't rate at all. Because its all about money. The money the WSL has always begged for.'

Beware the traitorous, treacherous, gushing, conniving, blowin, blind 'ship jumpers'. In a nutshell. Beware the bbruces!!! In a nutshell!!!

https://www.swellnet.com/news/swellnet-dispatch/2017/08/07/couch-kelly-s...

'The NFL was massive 50 years ago whilst the players were still beer swilling farm boys mostly. People don't watch NFL because of the Super Athleticism. They watch NFL because they are boring fuckers that like NFL.'

https://www.swellnet.com/forums/wax/226131

'Back to Slater. Always find him interesting. Never failed to be blown away by his surfing even into his third decade. Swellnet should try to get an interview with the Legend. Not sure what there is left to ask the man after all these years though. Maybe Swellnet crew could brainstorm some unique, penetrating questions to put to the man.'

'whats wrong with him, dose slater not realise that to be an elite athlete he needs to train in the NFL'

'Where I think he is smarter than a lot of his competitors is in giving himself chunks of downtime and cultivating his other interests.'

'given Slater's dominance over such a long period, it has to be worth considering the possibility that he is on to something.'

'but you would have to agree that whatever natural advantages Kelly started with he has managed them spectacularly well and that's what I find interesting in both physical and psychological dimensions.'

'Every surfer sits and waits for sets. Short of a wavepool that will never change . No matter how many squats you'd have them do.

Surfing will never be in competition with basketball . Why the fuck would it ?'

'Slater ruled Teahopu with a broken foot. Basket ballers break a nail and they're sidelined.....boring and weak.'

'Wow Udo! I’m surprised he went, but I like that he did. Is the King now the Guru?'

Only one thing worse than a proven, serial ship jumper. A proven, serial, ship jumper dunce combo.

Again. In a nutshell.

RePost by Grogan regarding Uplift / Crypto from another thread

-"A lot of people thought I was pretty good at blacks dots, what about you?"
bahahaha... one of your best upskirt!
here are some facts for you.
You make up stories - telling a story about someone online that everyone knows and degrading them when you weren't even there and have heard it third hand is just as good as making it up..... no credibility.
telling a story about someone that everyone knows, when you didn't even know it was him, but someone told you it was him, is just as good as making it up...... no credibility
most people on here don't really care about results of surf comps, yes they like the photos and footage, but most don't give a shit about who won or how fit or unfit pro surfers are or how much they earn, so stop banging on about it.... no credibility
no one on here gives a shit how fit grid iron players are, just because you have homo-erotic dreams about these guys, no one else cares...... no credibility
stop trying to suck off toddy archer every 2nd post you make, at my unfittest state in my life I could have been lucky enough to paddle out and the wave of the day come through and I caught it - 1st wave of the day - dropped in a bit too late, because I was unfit, but still made it under the lip, much deeper than I would have been if I had have got into it earlier... boom! best barrel of my life! I didn't get too many waves that session, but still, best barrel of my life nonetheless. this is a meaningless claim you are making just like a lot of your claims..... no credibility.
you are a jealous never-was-but-wished-he-could-have-been with.................. No Credibility