Hmmm... But stu look at your title ... Tits & Arse.... Well you got the mouses attention.

As surfing itself is such a minority market, they can't very well market to surfing girls and live off that , so they sell sex across the board... Both genders will buy.

And you write an article and sell sex to get the mouse to read it and it works.....

So where to now stu with girls surfing? The mouse is thinking it will just rotate between tits and arse till the girls themselves wake up to the fact they are being used..... And as that hasn't happened on a big broad scale since Adam & Eve first were marketed, don't hold your breath.

Don't discount the fact Mr. Mouse that those young ladies allow themselves to be used. Most of the time I think the girls are their own worst enemies. When you see Alana, Laura or Coco and co. bottom turning in their little whatchamacallits, what catches our eye? Their little tanned bum-cheeks that's what. Any man who doesn't admit that is either gay or a liar. It's kinda like women's tennis, most blokes only really watch Sharipova play because she's always smuggling raisins in those little tops of hers. How popular was women's tennis when Kournikova played? She couldn't hit a ball back over the net for shit, but ratings went through the roof when she was on the court.

Womens surfing will always play second string to mens because of the reasons Stu mentions in this article. If companies want to move gear to the female market, they have to market surfing as a lifestyle. This is where Roxy has been reasonably successful. Tanned, taught young things, tripping off to exotic locales, young and empowered, the object of desire to equally spunky young blokes who may just have a chance with this Roxy clad mermaid. But only on her terms of course.

For women's contest surfing to survive, I think sponsorship has to come from outside of surfing and that's a big ask.

Should these companies roll ads featuring how it really is in the surf?.... A free-for-all of spongers, SUP'ies, loggers, kooks, heffers and lesbians, with a small sprinkling of good looking women in bikinis?

If you'll recall, All advertising is a stick rattling a swill bucket.

Hi Zen.. No discounting done, check the last paragraph the mouse wrote. It suggests the very thought you expressed. That is, things will only change when the girls demand change and are willing to forgo the perks to take up the challenges of changing a male dominated culture. The mouse would be interested in who put the add together.... males, females, both together?
The interesting thing if it is females, is how they see themselves.... The mouse just wonders on such things.

But the mouse repeats his above perceptions...
Sex sells, stu's headline got the mouse's attention because of its content and will get the attention of many more, Roxy has succeeded in what they were wanting to do as for whatever reasons the brand has attention because of it. Both genders will buy because the guys will want to see girls in that gear and the girls will want the guys to think of them as sexy..... and the gods divine plan rolls on because of it......

Do you suppose there is a cosmic joke in there somewhere?
The mouse doesn't understand why the ladies are open to their own exploitation as purely a sex symbol ..... I mean in that vid there wasn't even a face let alone a smile .... I think the mouse is correct in saying that, least he can't remember one, so its all about the suggestion of pussy..... the statement being "come and buy the idea of sex".

Funny old world ...... Anyone found the cosmic joke yet???

Whatever, the mouse isn't claiming a definitive knowing here, just giving mouse thoughts on the subject.

Now on the subject of girls surfing the mouse can speak with authority having been involved in coaching at the highest levels......
The girls surfing is governed by their physiology and their psychology and it is what it is and the mouse for one loves it when it expresses what and who they are. Imitating male surfing will never be their answer is the mouse's call.

Cheers Zen,
mm.

Holey heck, Its 7.00am at Snapper and 180 roxy girls out there strutting their attire!

Quick lets get out there.

Can't argue with that MM.

I like having a few girls in the lineup, tends to mellow out the testosterone a bit.

Wellymon, I know a lady that only surfs Snapper because she says she can't paddle out at beachbreaks because they're too hard. That's what the Superbank has become.

Stu, where's my prize?:)

Of all of the girls on the World Tour, I was most surprised that it was Steph involved with this promo. From my vantage point, she seems to have continually bucked the typical marketing trend through her time with Rip Curl and Quiksilver.

Will be very interesting to see what Roxy dish up for the second pre-event promo instalment.

Hey Zen, at my local yesterday morning there were more girls out surfing than guys.... A first in 50 years... Short boards , mals and anything inbetween ... They were laughing, chatting, hooting each other without one ounce of what us guys bring to a packed line up.
The mouse made note of that......

Hey Zen, speaking of sponsorship from outside surfing.....that looked more like an ad for HTC than a promo for the Roxy Pro. Nice product placement on their part. (I work in the telco industry, the only reason I noticed I think) Also agree with the Mouse, the girls in the line up on the weekend certainly had fun and everyone seemed more chilled.

Absolute exploitation. This particular gender and sexual structure - for a long time been predominantly determined by male privilege and male heterosexual gaze - and has dominated surfing. All the stories and imagery have repoduced this time and again. The girls now feel like they have few other options to step outside this. So, they unfortunately become caught up in the process. And the "sexploitation" is perpetuated. It's not simply about the girls changing their ways. Men and women are in this together. There are alternatives to the approach featured here but those who make the decisions aren't willing to do the hard yards to support these and change perceptions. It's all about the quick $ and this oppressive status quo. But then again, that's surfing (business). Thanks for putting this out there, Swellnet.

(by the way, I'd argue that people are a complex biological and chemical and social cocktail so putting differences down to simply tesosterone is reductive and not actually right).

Mouse, if you want to understand how people can get caught up in such objetcification even if it is not in their interests you may find this interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaze

Yes sex sells.... It's a shame that roxy is going with this approach and that Steph is apart of it, cause she's is a fantastic ambassedor for young women worldwide BUT the bottom line is that surfing is predominately a male orientated sport, and this ad clearly is aimed to attract more men (not women) to the womens comp/sport. In doing so its creating more revenew for sponsorship, and essentially means more money for womens surfing, which will bring womens surfing to better level then its at. Is steph degradings women by doing this ad, or is she paving a solid financial backbone for the future of womens surfing?

Nice one Jezza, that didn't go unnoticed by me either.

Cliff, I used testosterone for the sake of well, simplicity. I'm well aware there is more to it than that.

I vaguely remember your article ages ago about objectitying women and for men essentially to break out of that stereotypical mould we, as mysoginistic (is that a word?) surfers, tend to be typecast as. I remember it as well written and thought provoking. Please excuse me but was it part of your book or something along those lines?

Might be a time to revisit that once again and I think it would tie in nicely with this article.

Come to think of it, my avatar isn't exactly doing me any favours either;)

Hi clif.. understand ? Shit the mouse was fighting with and for the girls back when there was just enough girls surfing to form one heat for a NSW title. Wow that was a long way back in time when girls were taking a strong stance against objectifying.
Stu, in this article he wrote might possibly point to the fact that by chasing surfing along the male lines, they have pushed the feline cause backward.
The mouse is no social sientist, but its a good question to ask me thinks.

Sorry about that, Z.

“when your little girl
asks you if she’s pretty
your heart will drop like a wineglass
on the hardwood floor
part of you will want to say
of course you are, don’t ever question it
and the other part
the part that is clawing at
you
will want to grab her by her shoulders
look straight into the wells of
her eyes until they echo back to you
and say
you do not have to be if you don’t want to
it is not your job
both will feel right
one will feel better
she will only understand the first
when she wants to cut her hair off
or wear her brother’s clothes
you will feel the words in your
mouth like marbles
you do not have to be pretty if you don’t want to
it is not your job”
— it is not your job | Caitlyn Siehl

Meaty topic clif. Now you'd getting into human/social conditioning.
But then again, that's what that add, the article headline and the mouse's first response points to....
We react because we are socially conditioned to do so.
That's what Roxy is banking on.... is it not.

So ladies, where to from here remains the relative question.......

A headline doesn't objectify anyone Mighty mouse.

Sid tried to talk Greeny into sponsoring Connie Nixon in ?1983?. Was told market wasn't big enough, "maybe down the track". see Roxy.

However, to date, surfing sexploits chicks no different to say Formula 1 or Tour de France or Fishing or beer ads. 4 cougars thanks !

At the top of the sexploitation tree would be the cosmetic industry, marketing the same pure vanity to girls themselves, its many many times larger than than a few surfy fashion labels.

Sex sells, such is the world. Shoot me and call me a dirty perv.

If you want the touchy-feely inverse, go to a yoga class and be the only bloke in a room full of desperate housewives. Tell 'em all they look gorgeous and they'll be licking the sweat off you.

Just quietly, what women's sport that has the male equivalent sport is not seen in exactly the same light? All women are compared to their male 'equivalents' in sport and the greatest attention is always attracted by those who are willing to exploit their femininity.

Women should not be compared to men, we don't compete against the men and we often perform the sport differently to men.

I am one of those 'silent' women who watches all the women's surf events (thank god for webcasts) and I read every single womens surf magazine i can get my hands on. I love the sport, both the mens and the womens version. I wish I could surf like Carissa Moore and that is what I aspire to. Sure, surfing like Kelly Slater would be awesome too but I am a woman and I want to surf like one.

So to the surf companies and anyone else, I am your target market for womens surfing, yes we may be a small market but this is the market that needs to be encouraged to get out in the crowded male dominated line ups, to encourage more women to give this intimidating sport a go and to travel to exotic places to improve our skills and surf perfect uncrowded waves.

Full power to all the girls who use their physical attributes to attract sponsors and financial backing. I would do exactly the same thing but when you are marketing the product, I will buy a product that is used by the best surfer (in my opinion, Carissa Moore) not the prettiest so stop marketing the sport to men because you will never capture that market in terms of product sales or spectatorship.

Nice to hear from you pussy-cat.

Joking!! ;)

All that did was made me want to shag Steph even more.. Ahhhh

You gotta love that goofyfoot, he says whats peoples are thinking.

Hey derra you think not.... Try looking at the word tits and not thinking of tits.
Language is hinged on immediate mental imagery.

And as madam points out she's into the add.....
So it comes down to like the mouse said a little earlier....So ladies where to from here....
They will make the call.
Till then sex sells so to sell it will be used by the many who can profit from it.
As the mouse said a few posts back, he don't understand why girls go to the lengths they do to sexualise themselves so publicly, but the mouse understands they will have reasons that are theirs as women, and maybe if we as men listened with the intent to understand we could assist them in new and maybe exciting and liberating ways to step into their future.

Still to the mouse stu posed a question by writing that article and the answer remains, sex sells. It gets your attention and that's what Roxy set out to do.
But let's not forget there's adds for the girls too.... But the mouse ain't in them cause he's got a head like swiss cheese.

Slightly off topic, but...

"I am your target market for womens surfing, yes we may be a small market but this is the market that needs to be encouraged to get out in the crowded male dominated line ups, to encourage more women to give this intimidating sport a go and to travel to exotic places to improve our skills and surf perfect uncrowded waves."

Nobody needs to be encouraged to get into already crowded line-ups and the less of you bastards and bitches that travel to exotic locations and perfect uncrowded waves the better. If you want to go out and surf these places you should be able to do so without Roxy supporting you. There is no room for equality in the line-up on a 3-4 Saturday morning session at the Superbank, especially when that equality is directly correlated with the amount of bikinis sold at the check out.

I think a lot of this comes down to who is wielding the power. If this is the image that the surfers themselves want to project then that is fine. Smart? Maybe not, but definitely acceptable. On the other hand, which seems more likely to this cynic, if the image is being determined by the company and imposed on the surfers, then it is unacceptable.
It is not hard to imagine the pressure that would be on a female surfer in the situation where the sponsor wants them to do this type of promotion but they are not comfortable with it.
I happened to drive through Narrabeen today and noticed a huge poster of a bikini glad girl in the window of the Rip Curl shop. I didn't notice the text which makes you wonder about just how effective some of this advertising is. Sex may sell, but if the imagery is so, shall we say, attention getting, the product can get disappear into the background.

Ahh BB I've been awaiting your wisdom.
So let's ask Steph.... Are you out there Steph, was this mode of promotion your first choice?

Might be waiting a while for an answer on this, so think I'll get back to my cheese.

Nothing like a group of crusty old men commenting on what a woman can and cannot do.

I watched the video and see it more as an art piece than anything else. Sure Steph is attractive but she is also extremely fit, a professional athlete, someone who would surf the backside off most of us and one hell of a good person. So lets all just give her some space and stop being judgemental.

Perhaps the comments above say more about you lot and where your heads are at.

That would assume everyone who rejects the ad is a male and that the ad is about Stephanie. Two big errors.

'QUESTION TIME: DOES THE ROXY PRO BIARRITZ TRAILER NEED A SHOWER SCENE!?' Blog on The Cooler, written by Samantha Haddad and commented on by women.

'Tell Roxy That Female Surfers Deserve Better' blog written by Cori Schumacher.

Plus many girl tweeters (Stefani Nurding, pro skateboarder) showing their disgust at the ad. Just check Twitter.

When you watch the ad in terms of something that is trying to sell stuff to women, it works well. Check out any magazine that is directed at women (Cleo, Women's Health etc) and it is pretty much the same: fit women getting around in no clothes. Same goes for plenty of magazines directed at men. Hell, even watch a bunch of surf videos and there are a tonne of scenes that replicate what is seen in the scenes of women; slow pans of the camera from their head to their toe, shots of Parko having a shower in Hawaii... My female housemate loves having a perve on the blokes in my surfmag.

I don't even know what my point is.

Floyd, getting old for sure. Crusty ? Not yet
Try using your brain to figure out what the debate has been about to far.
If you work on it you'll get it by the time your old and crusty.
Or give John Singleton a call and ask him to explain the fine arts of advertising.
Either way you'll do better than how your travelling now.

Maybe its BB that's crusty? Na , he's too agile and fleet footed..... and I'll back his backhand up there against Steff for sure.... and ...... well I could fell you more but its your bed time now, so run along and sleep tight.

Read what's written dip stick and not what you imagine is being stated.

One point about the video (and apologies if this has been covered above) - they intentionally don't show the 'face' of the girl, because that's their marketing angle (denoted by the hashtag #WhoAmIJustGuess).

Unfortunately this guessing game is pretty lame. The ad is for the Roxy Pro and there's only a couple of blonde Roxy surfers likely to be competing, so that along with a bunch of other things makes it pretty obvious who it is. I reckon the approach is a sneaky tactic used purely to secure more video impressions, which (courtesy of this article and many other blogs) has had the desired result.

Marketing company 1, Surfing Audience 0.

But.. will such a stunt have long term effects on the Roxy brand? I honestly don't know. Roxy is marketed mainly to young girls, so I imagine that their parents are doing the purchasing. And from what I've seen across Social Media so far, many parents seem very unhappy with the video campaign. But these kinds of incidents often have a habit of blowing over within a couple of weeks - especially if Roxy's follow up videos are less provocative.

While the media’s sexualization of female athletes intends to engage it actually creates deep divisions among the audience and between the audience and the message. The initial attention is superficial and doesn't create any long-term brand loyalty but it does create long term animosity.

Also, in the long run it effectively impedes the development of a base of women's sports fans that could financially sustain professional sports opportunities because it doesn't add to the sport side of things in any way e.g. an appreciation of skill.

Hi clif.... Got around to viewing thatt link. Interesting.
Would be interested to know what bought you to such in depth stuff re this subject.
A thesis maybe, a study in psychology???
By your writing it seems some research on your behalf has gone on in your life...???

Thanks again
mm.

Hi mm,

Yes, uni thesis etc.

Parody of the roxy promo:

www.surfsession.com/2013/07/03/teaser-roxy-pro-2013-parodie/

Come down to South West WA & watch some of the young local girls charge . They get no coverage , the Trials for the girls this year was held in stormy 8 to 10 Margies which would make a lot of male surfers squeal . Floss Palmateer , the Macca & Greene sisters , Claire Bevo to name a few ( The youngest girl was only 15 ). Not a word was mentioned by the media . The girls need to have a seperate female surfers association & maybe have a few angry fathers to support them in their claims to a better deal . How about holding a few more female 6 star & WCT events in waves of consequence instead of 2 foot beach break slop. Carissa More , Tyler Wright etc are far better surfers than the average male & are just the beginning . Trust me not every female is a limp wrist male accessory , there are plenty of girls who have learned to surf with there Dads or uncles & have a confidence to challenge the majority of Male surfers in the line up . Trust me lads the girls ain't going away , there numbers are growing .
Signed one really fucking pissed off Dad.

I'm with Ben, I thought Steph was smarter.

To continue on the tennis track, the only sport that pays women equal prize money to men (horse and car racing aside), a quote from Billy Jean King. She started the WTA with 7 other ladies, so disgusted with their treatment they created a rebel tour for a contract of $1, agitated for equal prize money, and COULD hit a ball over the net winning 39 grand slam titles for all those Internet generation who know nothing of yesterday let alone last decade:

"Everyone's and influencer. It's not only what you do on the court - do you realise how you can affect the people in your village, in your town, in your country, in this world? You have a platform that very few people will ever have... You hit a tennis ball with a racquet over a little net, and just think what you can do with that, beyond trying to win Wimbledon"

So speaks one who knows.

You want to be a model, go be one. You want to make soft porn, go on The Voice. If you want to be a professional athlete be professional. No one in Banking thinks they will sell more savings accounts by putting their teller staff in bikinis.

Surfing isn't a sport, it's a lifestyle. The corporates use the sport to sell shorts and bikinis and they think so little of it they treat their biggest star like this.

To the ladies out there with contracts, the Australian Women's Netball team walked away from a calendar shoot when it was made plain that they wanted them to do it wearing bikinis, I guess they are smarter and have more self respect.

Who knows, maybe Roxy will start a Bikini Netball League, I'm sure it would be popular.

I'm going straight to the Roxy web site and demand they remove the trailer. I will not buy any more bikini's until they do.

@noidea,
Good point, fair enough there No Idea.
Why do you call yourself no idea?
I do not have one iota on that one!
Sounds like you have played a lot of tennis though.
"You want to be a model, go be one. You want to make soft porn, go on The Voice"

Excuse my ignorance I have no idea of what "The Voice" is?
"Women's Weekly" yep, but "The Voice"

They have the "Roxy Grid Iron League in USA" thats different?

Well its not "Roxy"

But the "Grid Iron League With Girls In Bikin in is" is pretty good to watch?

Wellymon:

I've never played a game of tennis in my life and never seen one live in person. I do however respect people who see that they are being used and do something about it.

Steph Gilmore, as a multiple world champion is surely no longer "sponsored" by Roxy, she is "endorsing" them and therefore their actions as well as the way the ASP treats her and her fellow competitors.

Greg Norman could see the difference, went out and partnered with Cobra to build himself a venture that he can be proud of over and above golf. Layne Beechly did the something similar and I bet she's happier for it. Kelly slater tried and failed with Kgrip but maybe Kommunity might work for him

Point being yeah you can watch bikini football if you want, you can watch a wet tshirt contest too, but don't expect to be taken seriously if you are a competitor.

Go do your bottom turn in a comp and flash your ass, what you had for lunch, whatever you want. The post adolescent boys on the beach will love it, they'll download photos of you doing it all day.

But when it comes time will you be happy to say to your daughters, "if you train really hard and surf everyday, master the hardest thing in the world to do, you too can make money doing it but only if you flash your ass every chance you get." Oh and by the way we won't bother to have even one comp in Hawaii because its not worth watching girls surf there, they are shit at it, not worth investing in."

I know mr.bumblister isn't. I'm not. There's all those other things you can do if you want to be judged by your body. I'm not interested and don't call yourself an athlete if you do them. It might require athleticism, but that isn't the most important part in those contests.

They don't do ads like that for the Olympics, Golf, Tennis, not even for the women's UFC. The ring girls wear the bikinis, the fighters beat the daylights out of each other. Most people watch for the contest, for the skill. The others will always watch whether it is serious or not. They won't invest though.

Weomen surfers can and will decide for themselves with their actions. Do they want to continue being the side show or do they want to be the main event?

I remember the big surprise this year - at the Roxy Pro Gold Coast - when Alana Blanchard surfed her first heat of the event. She was genuinely ripping! But it was the reaction of the commentators (both webcast and on social media) that was most telling - even here in the office we were stunned.... "Alana is actually a bloody good surfer!".

After years of arse shots paraded everywhere, it was ironic that very few people - myself included - realised Alana could lay it on rail. Seemed to me that most people considered her inclusion on the world tour to be more of a token marketing gesture than that of an athlete aspiring to win a world title.

Lets not forget some non-hetro chicks like looking at hot chicks too. That's cool isn't it?

Where does that fit into the mix ?

If that's what you're after, aren't there more suitable places to find that kinda stuff?

I mean, the clip was all nice and arty but it's hardly going to win any kind of award for creativity, is it?

I dunno Ben, I'm not after that. But I do have a few bi/lesbian friends who would be like... "yeah, tap that".

Is the beauty of the female form that sacrisanct that it must be locked away, burqua style ? Buggered if I know ? The rules of acceptance are so fluid I can't keep up.

That's what I mean though. I can't imagine Roxy are trying to tap into the bi/lesbian market. If they are then this campaign was a considerable risk for what I presume would be a very small market (most of whom - unless they are already following the world tour - probably aren't interested, or likely to be interested in pro surfing anyway).

I mean, once they tune into the webcast the vision is gonna be NOTHING like that teaser clip suggests (or... will they cross to live shower cam?).

Also, dunno if you've seen it yet either, but there's a hilarious parody video already online:

Nice article Stu.

I've mostly avoided writing about this stuff too, because like you say it's so tricky, but I hate when people bring it down to saying it's up to the women to change the situation. It's so much more complicated than that. And centrally revolving around marketing.

Also, I have to admit that don't watch women's competitive shortboard surfing. But then again, I have only ever watched about two shortboarding comps ever (the last one Tahiti in 2012) and I'm more interested in longboarding anyway, so, well, that's a whole other story... And none of my friends watch any competitions either. Being interested in going surfing is not the same as wanting to watch it as a competitive sport. I don't think so anyway.

But you know what, this clip is dumb. It's just so totally dumb and pointless and is why I so rarely look at these kinds of promotions and have to have them pointed out to me by others. I mean, we're all well aware and mostly numb to magazines rarely featuring women on the cover, to most surf films rarely including women (unless it's a 'girls' surf film) and to comps treating women like a side-show, but if even in all-women surf spaces the companies can't use images of women surfing in order to promote the event, well, what are the competitors supposed to do about that? Say no, and they use someone else in a world where accessing wide levels of promotion is a competitive feat in itself?

My main beef with it is not that some women are happy to use their bodies to promote their sport. I mean, all that makes me uncomfortable, and I think there are better ways of going about it, but I also understand why so may women are doing it. Instead, my beef is that unless the women are willing to do this stuff they get no promotion or visibility, so the sport side of surfing basically has one look now - bikini-clad and coy - which does the women on tour no real justice. Competing in surfing has high monetary costs - entry fees, insurance, training, travelling around the world, buying boards, wetsuits, swimmers, accommodation, etc - and those with sponsorship are in the best positions to compete. So if anyone thinks it's as simple as 'well just refuse to do these promos', well, it's not. Who else is going to pay for the costs of competing? I guess this is kind of the same point that noidea was making about who gets to compete in the end and be successful.

The thing is that the women on tour surf really well. Every year I hear people talk about how well the women surf, but they also continue to act surprised by that. Get. Over. it. They surf well. They surf differently to the guys, so stop expecting them to lok like models but surf like Fanning - it's unrealistic and too much pressure. I'm not sure what the solution is - I'm not even sure there is one - but I know t's not to continue to compare them to them men who have more money, more opportunities, more promotion, more support and then, when they don't meet these expectations, to tell them they have failed.

It's NOT just up to the women to make this change.

And as for sidthefish's idea that lesbians might find the women in those promotions sexually attractive, so then it's okay to do it, is pretty lame. The idea that everyone, no matter their persuasion, looks at every image of a human body in terms of whether they want to 'tap' it or not isn't very realistic. Sure, some people do, but not all women and not all men.

Anyway...

Oh my life! That went a bit longer than I meant - sorry!

Someone made the comment earlier that a bunch of blokes are commenting about women's stuff..... Bit like whitefellas commenting about blackfellas business. Not that white blokes haven't been been front and centre in all things that we're unsure about.

As the parent of a 9 year old young woman I have often struggled with how my daughter gravitates towards what I perceive to be sexualised imagery of women doing women's stuff and her desire to replicate it .

One verbal exchange my partner and I often reflect on involed our daughter and her mother when our daughter was maybe 4. Daughter says "Mummy I'd like to wear makeup like a Mummy". Mother responds "but Mummy doesn't wear makeup". Daughter replies " I mean like the other Mummies".

Decoration, presentation, pink clothes, skimpy clothes, video hoes...It's almost like the tide, unstoppable.

Is it just cultural evolution, revolution and inter-generational women's business, the work of evil men or am I a bad father?

I don't see the problem with it. What does "objectifying women" really mean? You're looking at it wrong - this is a celebration of women. From a technical point of view, women's surfing is not in the same league as the men's surfing, so from a viewer point of view, how do you encourage people to tune in? Make it sexy! This promo I think is good for women's surfing. It's not demeaning, it's empowering. Whatever encourages people to watch is surely a good thing and raises the profile of women's surfing. People need to lighten up and stop being so sensitive. Sex is in all sport and is not just limited to women's events. AFL introduced singlet tops to show off players' arms and shoulders 30 years ago and the move attracted more women to the sport. I don't see the men complaining that they're being objectified.

That's because they're not. By and large the men are valued for their surfing ability. Any male surfing contest video would actually show them surfing, not waking uo in bed and having a shower.

samboss - 'this is a celebration of women' - really?

Yeah, um, so, sambossa, I guess it depends who it is doing thecelebrating, huh. Because I'm a woman and I always feel more pride in having my achievements rather than my body and looks celebrated. Bodies are impressive - athletic bodies included - but I'm more intorested in what they can do rather than how they look.

A celebration of man and womanhood;)

Ah, I remember why I used to love coming to this site!

Lovely work, all.

Including yours, Sambossa, although I respectfully disagree.

"AFL introduced singlet tops to show off players' arms and shoulders 30 years ago and the move attracted more women to the sport. I don't see the men complaining that they're being objectified."

Really? C'mon, pull the other one. Read the link posted by Clif (thanks, too, for that piece by Caitlyn Siehl, by the way - goosebumps). AFL players are all highly paid sportsMEN whose primary work is considered to be a serious undertaking: no-one that I can recall has ever asked them to do a g-string calendar. I'm afraid your argument only works if ALL power relationships open for men are also and equally open to women, who can then freely choose which one to avail themselves of, at their sole and unfettered discretion. Not gonna happen anytime soon. But discussions like this all help.

And, yeah, I'm with Floyd on the irony of men yet again commenting on what women can or can't, should or shouldn't do with their bodies.

derra83 - that's right. But people watch men's surfing.
thermalben - yes.
rebecca - in fantasy world this would be true. In reality Roxy are selling cheap clothes to teenage girls based on a certain lifestyle and image that goes along with women's surfing. They're not selling women's surfing. And let's be honest women surfing doesn't sell women's surfing. So why not try something new?

" irony of men yet again commenting on what women can or can't, should or shouldn't do with their bodies." I count at least three women in this thread and not one reference to out points of view. Do only male comments matter? Plus a few comments by fathers of daughters, probably the most important of all.

whaaat - I'd hardly call AFL a serious undertaking and didn't follow your point on power relationships - but appreciate your point of view. not sure it's irnoic, but certainly futile for us to impose our values and beliefs on women / marketing / sport.
sophie - I acknowledge you.

Belatedly, it's good to see you back Whaaat. You've been missed.

There has to be a little middle ground here somewhere though, denying that we as men find the female form attractive denies our probably most important base instinct (after breathing and sustaining ourselves) and that's to reproduce. Why is it that sometimes as men we are somehow made to feel ashamed of what we find pleasing to the eye and what starts firing those synapses deep within our brains?

Whether sex has a place in sport? Can be argued on so many different fronts, AFL, Rugby etc all put out their beefcake calenders aimed squarely at the ladies (and a small contingent on Oxford St.) and AFL has been particularly guilty in the past at marketing directly to women based on the sex appeal of the players. It worked too with a large increase in women atttending games.

I like watching womens comp surfing and I will be brutally honest here, I don't particularly like those little g-banger thingys they surf in, maybe the teenagers do but I do actually like and appreciate the surfing. I think those things detract from the action.

And my dark side loves watching a lady get absolutely worked, based on the sadistic premise she had the guts to go when many men would pull back. Barrellus interuptus? When they surface spitting sand and water, bedraggled and doe eyed, it makes me smile. Am I evil?

In the end professional sport is simply a business. If the price of staying in business is this kind of promotion and the participants are willing to go there then I really can't feel any great angst. Exploitation, sexualisation, objectification of women? We swim in that shit day in and day out. It's everywhere. I mean 25m long billboards of semi naked women are out there on public highways. The surfing industry and the magazines are up to their neck in it and have been for a long time now.
That said there seems to be a sense of entitlement running through some of the debate along the lines of the men have a tour so the women should too along with every opportunity the men have. Sorry but this is pure crap. Yes the women on tour are good surfers but the sport is still 90% male in terms of participation. And, no matter how good you think the women are, my own observation is that the gap between men and women at the elite level is greater than ever. At a time when the men's tour, after however many years, still struggles for an audience, to believe that a women's tour can attract equal interest or generate equivalent incomes, is pure fantasy.

The mouse is a self confessed BB groupy... Such common sense, mixed with angust. Love it.

Howdy Zen. And others. Sure there's a middle ground. I LOVE the female form. It's just always worth acknowledging, though, that men and women still rarely get to compete for the same things on equal terms.

Samboss - try telling anyone in the football industry that it's not a serious undertaking. Start with broadcasting rights.

http://www.afl.com.au/tv-radio/2012-2016-broadcast-rights

C'mon, you've gotta let the facts get in the way of your argument sometime.

Sophie - yes, of course, sorry. I should have more specifically acknowledged that a woman's views on the objectification of women at large must, generally speaking, carry more weight and heft than a man's. (Rebecca, I regularly read your blog - always lovely to hear from you.)

And, Sophie, as the father of two daughters, both of whom surf, yep, I feel their pain. But I can only approach understanding it, as I'm a white educated male, a completely different (and massively privileged) viewing position. (And, yes, one that makes me part of the problem. As well as part of the solution.)

BB, couldn't disagree more.

MM, FFS, what the ... is this 3rd person crap?

I would be pleased to hear you expand on your disagreement whaaaat.

I don't think anyone is arguing that sex should not be tied up with sport as it quite clearly always will be. It is possible to be sex positive about sport yet not let it rule it in such an exploitative way i.e. whereby the sport and athletic ability becomes the sideline act. It's a question of who gets to make such decisions and on what basis and how that is used (as others have already pointed out). This is quite different to the rubbish we see put forward in the clip under discussion. Rebecca, Sophie, et al have cearly stated that as far as they see it from their perspective women aren't impressed with the current approach. I have been finding the same thought expressed by female athletes I follow on twitter, blogs, websites, etc. How about we listen to those opinions ...

BB, yes we are awash in such representations but just because it is the common scenario doesn't mean we should afford it a power it doesn't deserve. It would be good to see the alternatives given some light e.g. Goldieblox and Dove (although, both are similarly to get people to buy the point is there are alternatives that don't use the lousy approach Roxy just has).

Roxy should try this crew next time:

Ditto

""Whenever one person stands up and says, “Wait a minute, this is wrong," it helps other people do the same." Gloria Steinem.

What if, as it well could, it comes down to a simple choice; women's tour with this type of promotion or no women's tour?
I don't see much middle ground there so if you want to go there you better grab it fast.

This thread is not primarily or even at all about a womens' tour.

Master Po: Do you hear the grasshopper which is at your feet?

Blindboy: How is it that you hear these things?

Master Po: Young man, how is it that you do not?

You have a privileged status on this site. Strive for wisdom.

"‘What big teeth you have!’ She saw how his jaw began to slaver and the room was full of the clamour of the forest’s Liebestod but the wise child never flinched, even when he answered: ‘All the better to eat you with.’ The girl burst out laughing; she knew she was nobody’s meat. She laughed at him full in the face."

— The Company of Wolves - Angela Carter

I'm wondering if our perception of this promo is through our rigid "No sex please, we're British" (colonial) blinkers, whilst the clip was more risque' le' France'.

A place, after all, whose beaches are enjoyed thoroughly by girls in the nude, and is passionate about the art of making luuurrrrvvvvvv. (cue Barry White music.)

Are we being a bit stiff here ? (no pun intended, well not much, hehe)

Seriously, are we that hung up about a bit of sex, Straight, Bi, Gay, consenting Swingers, or otherwise ?

Really, c'mon, thank your mother for the rabbits.

Wisdom whaat? As assessed by your own irreproachable judgement I assume. Also the thread has been discussing a promotional video for a women's tour event so my comments are relevant.

Actually, I tend to think that Roller hit the nail on the head with "... a stick rattling a swill bucket."

If the ad's aim was to attract flies, it works. If it was to add value to the brand 'womens surfing', epic fail.

Good point Sid.

But at the end of the day, professional surfing competitions are mainly used as a marketing platform. The goal is to increase brand awareness, and ultimately sales of Roxy gear.

Will this video help or hinder that? They've certainly ticked the first box: I'm pretty certain most of the people commenting here and everywhere else wouldn't have had a clue the Roxy Pro was actually just around the corner, had it not been for this clip. So that was a big success (and I wouldn't be surprised if it was intentional too).

But will they tick the second box, and experience an increase in Roxy sales as a result? Or will the negativity surrounding this promo clip result in the opposite?

I have no idea.

Yep, BB, as assessed by me. Just providing a small counterweight to the undying adulation pulsating from other quarters. Don't want the critique? Don't publish.

The Japanese don't hold on to our Christian puritanical values either Sid. Women are second class citizens here and they're groomed to accept that from birth.

Two things you'll never hear a Japanese bloke say- 'maybe I shouldn't piss here' and 'aren't you too young to be wearing that?'

I was talking to a Japanese Softball coach (bloke) who coaches a mixed team of 10-12 year olds. They get monstered week in week out as they have to play all boys teams. The boys play all the key positions, while the girls are relegated to the outfield and are last to bat. As the girls can catch equally as well as the boys but can't throw as far, I suggested to him that they mightn't lose so badly if they put the girls on the bases and the boys in the outfield. He looked at me as if I was insane. He'd never heard something so stupid in his life. I thought it was quite logical. Anyway, they lost again this week, 28-3.

Apologies, way off topic, sorry.

Oh, and Floyd mentioned that he saw the trailer as an art piece? Your 'effing joking right Floyd?

whaaat - Thank you for sharing that link that allowed me to be educated (like your good self) on "broadcast rights". I now realise that 36 men running around for 2 hours chasing a ball and kicking it through sticks is a very serious undertaking. Seriously. And from now on I will gauge the seriousness of all occupations by how much money they are able to generate in broadcast rights. I'm afraid accountancy is starting to look like a very, very silly undertaking. There's also a lot of assumptions being made about who's male and who's female - I can't tell who's who and which gender is getting less more or less attention.

You'd have to think Stu is a literary arsonist with his last couple of articles.

Strikes a match and within a few comments he's got a raging inferno on his hands.

Nice.

Might be BB that the first two words of your last post are around the wrong way.... ????

A pleasure, samboss. Carry on.

Men: "Best surfers, best waves"
Women: "Best looking surfers, best you don't ask about the waves"

I really think Blind Boy nailed the crux of the issue way up there: the women's tour can not stand up on surfing alone. Brands like Roxy can't make money from selling surf gear to female surfers, because there just isn't many of them and so they have to make their money by selling general fashion and lifestyle gear to people that don't surf. Sure, they could have an ad that shows Steph ripping in a Roxy wetsuit, but what do they get in return? Like BB said (though I will paraphrase), Roxy doesn't owe the women a surf contest. Just like the men don't deserve one either. They only exist for the profit, and though I love watching them from time to time, they bring little to my actual surfing experience and at times even detract from it.

So they made a video that will in all likelihood increase their sales of clothes to people who dream of surfing but don't actually surf. People that want to live the 'beach lifestyle' but don't want to duckdive freezing cold sets in the middle of winter. That's fine, it's what they do to survive... and if they didn't do it they would likely just stop putting money in to the tour full stop.

At the risk or being lampooned by Whaat's superior intellect and florid wordsmithery, can I just declare my undying pulsating adulation for your realistic analysis of the situation.

'Lovely work, all.

Including yours, Sambossa, although I respectfully disagree.'

Samboss, maybe you should take your free kick and move on.

Samboss: put some rigour into your analysis or expect a strong rebuttal. Don't fucking whine or simply descend into sarcasm - argue better.

For example, "I don't see the men complaining that they're being objectified."

Next you'll be arguing that being a Playboy centrefold is a great step for a woman to take to get her legal career off the ground.

Another scenario is if women want $$$ equality in surfing, go compete with the guys, as in surf against them. Lets see what they're worth then. Simple.

This notion that surfy beach fashion labels owe men, women or the pastime, this or that is nonsense.

The bulk of their revenue is from people who don't surf, don't care about surfing and they know it. I talk to poeple who don't surf, and unless its 20ft plus, they reckon surfing is boring as batshit to watch. Even then, they prefer wipeouts.

Its the fashion business, nothing more, nothing less. And getting ever more competitive, for shinking disposable dollars, euros, pounds and yen, in case you hadn't noticed.

Crykey all you guys and girls must have honours in English, i don't understand any of the words coming from some of these sentences? I am a little illiterate, lucky I have my spell and grammar thingy on my Mac!
Cry-key came up! (good old Steve Irwin) fair dinkum. Even that didn't come up! oohh you Aussies you have some classic sayings.
Any ways yes Zen , @Stu what a great piece of work and that is why you have written articles like this for along time, to get peoples opinions, they are on fire bro (sorry Maaaate).
I think its great to get opinions from the ladies because it is about you girls, yes its an ad! but there is no surfing in it!
Marketing is so powerful, yet we have nothing to do with it, like BB said its all over the motorways when you drive past them.
This is a huge powerful topic but in reality, Sorry girls but sexy stuff does sell !, also sorry Daddies with their little girls trying to grow up, the little poppets, you can't blame them either, let them choose their journey in this life and be understanding.
Wow Stephanie Gilmore good on you too, we do not survive if we do not make money? a true fact I think.
Theres my free kick and I'm moving on.
Cheers

Dear whaaaaat, you dislike 3rd persons, you put the boot into others, yet offer no debate on the topic stu put out there..... And no opinion is not debate, its just opinion and opinions are like arseholes, everybody has one. And I note your opinion when critiqued sends you into swearing and probably foot stomping rant.

When you so comicly put your knife into BB you do so in complete ignorance of the wealth of experience and knowledge he is putting on the table.
He talks from direct experience.... Can you say that of yourself?

I like the cut of your jib whaaat. Good argument. Point taken. I stand corrected.

Sid, you're spot on about this being the fashion business, not the surfing tour business. And Rebecca says that Roxy's marketing department got it very wrong for her. But she's not the target demographic. Much younger girls are. Who aren't yet wise to the ways of crusty old men. That's what's at the heart of all this. In my view, getting a half-assed womens tour but keeping the existing paradigm unchanged ain't worth it.

MM, why not let BB speak for himself - he knows that I respect him and his work; I only prod him when I think he's being intellectually lazy. He's one of the best things about this site.

And I'm very sorry for being an arsehole and fucking swearing - it shits me too.

I wonder when times get tough for the men's tour we will start to see similar promos? No? Thought not.

By the way, the promo reflects far more than the women's world tour or selling cheap clothing regardless of the idiots who put it together intention. I for one think they should have to have credits on such things rather than faceless marketing companies. Accountability. They should personally have to stand by their representation.

As for France being 'different'. Same debate is happening there.

If they are allowed to get away with such rubbish without dissent nothing changes, and better and more creative answers to funding a women's world tour won't be sought out. This promo was nothing but a cop-out.

Whaaaat , I was speaking on my behalf not the BB... And sorry I can't go with you on the intellectually lazy either. Can't see where either of us could be in a position to make a call on that.
However, the topic of use and abuse in advertising is a broad social issue that does require strong debate for us individuals, company's, corporations, governments and nations...

So let it roll here says the mouse... Thank you stu and roxy and all who have bothered to put out on this topic. An enlightened engaged surfing society has a chance to produce the changes it seeks.... if it seeks any.

So I put the question out there again..... Where do you want to go ladies? It's your call.
If I, as a male, attempt to tell you where you should go, what you should do, I'm repeating that Roxy promo....

Roxy's ridiculously dumb response

https://m.facebook.com/roxy/posts/10151482519617611?comment_id=26198857&...

Then read the comments to see what women surfers the world over are saying about it.

Those comments should things up.

Roxy: #DAREYOURSELF. It's our mantra. Whether you are athletic, smart, funny, sexy, daring, confident -- we support whatever combination you choose to be. Women are complex and multi-dimensional. To ignore this fact is to ignore who we truly are. Obviously, there's been much conversation around the video we recently released. We believe all athletes are naturally beautiful, in and out of the water. You certainly don't have to be sexy to be an athlete, & we also believe it's not wrong to be an athlete and to be sexy, if you choose to be. We don't judge one to be better than the other & we don't believe in excluding one for the other.

e.g. And can you explain exactly which part the commercial shows athletic? smart? or daring?

e.g. Good gravy, Roxy? Seriously? This is what you came up with? Do you have an intern running your facebook page? You objectify and overtly sexualize young women. You completely alienate your target market, female surfers. And then you have the audacity to try and rationalize it as if that trailer had ANY surfing value/stoke/spirit/dignity? You aren't allowing women to choose their own sexuality, you are projecting sexuality as the only ideal for young women surfers. Thank YOU for the parody of being "for women."

e.g. Roxy: "We believe all athletes are naturally beautiful." So how many non-super-babe surfers do you sponsor?

e.g. Complex and multi-dimensional? Would anyone say that about a man? You are the people who should be respecting women in surfing not creating degrading videos. I’m a 25 year old female surfer who is horrified by what you have produced. Shame on you Roxy! It’s been a sad few days for women that surf. Just when we thought we had come so far, you come out with this.

e.g. What does this video say to young girls (your target audience!) about what it means to be a professional athlete? Does it teach them to value strength, power, athleticism....? No. Women's surfing deserves better and so does the next generation of surfers

e.g. Did Roxy have the new PR intern write this? Step it up! Who is Roxy as a company to define what "sexy" is? That is exactly what lady surfers are outraged about. As women in the water, we already have to deal with sexism... whether I am wearing a small bikini or a long suit... we get looks from men like we have to prove our spot in the lineup. With this video you have made this seem acceptable. Roxy, you broke my heart today... I Loved what ROXY was about. I've browsed the catalogue with every email ROXY has sent, and have made numerous purchases. I was optimistic for some sort of retraction or understanding of how your client base felt and I am disappointed that ROXY has responded poorly. I am sad to say I will stop buying your products.

e.g. Really missing the point Roxy!!! It's not about the sex appeal of female surfers. It's about competitive female surfing being taken seriously. You want to do sexy photo shoots then go for it but when your advertising a professional competition please make it about surfing.

mighty mouse, there are plenty of women choosing commentss stuff, it's just that for the women on tour their choices are impacted by the forces around them. It's not so easy as choosing not to play this latest super sexualized, brazilian-cut bikini bottom game. If they don't get visibilty they're useless to companies and so don't get sponsored. All the women on tour are amaziing surfers - there is no question of that - but there are only 16 spots and 6 events (correct me if I'm wrong on that) and the nature of the way the tour is run favours those who fit the companies' chosen moulds.

Women can surf well, but this is so rarely the focus of the promotion of the sport of women's surfing. In this case, a FIVE TIMES WORLD CHAMPION is reduced to a soft focus sexual fantasy. Steph Gilmore is fitter than us and she surfs better than we could ever dream of, but in this she's topless and faceless. I mean, what? It's so, so weird.

AndI love this thread for talking about it - the contributions are interesting. While of course I wish there were more many more women in this discussion, these aren't just 'women's issues'.

Roxy deleting dissenting comments from their facebook page.

"Do you have an intern running your facebook page?"

Nope, sorry, he's a 38 year old male. Our chief marketing manager in fact.

http://ir.quiksilver.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=110264&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=18...

Lovely Dark Panda eyes , relax love.

Things will change, not !(Borat).

Interns a professional.

Rebecca, relax petal, way things are heading, next year for the girls there will only be 10 spots in 3 events.

The evil corporations could reduce from the Big 3, to the Big 2 (ish).

Wouldn't surprise me, if considering the new economic paradigm, Pro Surfing sponsorship gets reduced to 1 or 2 flagship events, and a handful of pros per company.

(If I was a shareholder, I'd be demanding it. IE: ditch the bloody sponos and gimme a goddam dividend instead. Pro Surfing, men & women, have done a lot better out of these companies than have the shareholders over the last few years.)

Then all the thankless bastards will have nothing to grizzle about, or at least a lot less.

If this type of stuff is causing distress, switch it off, and just go surfing.

Just cos you like cruising down the coast chasing waves in an automobile, doesn't mean you have to follow the NASCARs.

The (then) Peter Drouyn did the Cleo cenrefold in the late 70s / early 80s.

Oh, the horror.

Don't be so condescending, Sid. It's very poor form. Some find the issues important because it is about more than pro surfing and actually does affect their (or someone they know e.g. sister, friend, daughter, mother) everyday experience of surfing away from such. They don't get to 'just go surfing' like you or I.

Roxy's response proves the dissent is being heard. We'll see if their future approaches change or not.

That's their, or their parents, choice Clif, not yours or mine to dictate.

There are much more evil forces in the world than anything to do with surfing.

Go n hassle, Lloyd Blankfien, Hank Paulson, Dick Cheney, Big Pharma, Big Tobacco, Monsanto etc.

105 responses ....... what a joke.

Seems everyone is an expert and everyone has an opinion.

Leave the girl alone ..... is this the new unspoken sport? Pull the tall poppy women down.

Expect Alan Jones to have something to say about it tomorrow, hopefully he doesn't pull out the hessian bag line again.

Um, floyd... the main point seems to be not about the person, but about the system that surrounds her - the system that shapes up the way women's surfing gets perceived and represented. What is cool here is that most comments have been really clear in making that distinction and in being really supportive of the women. To see 105 engaged and interested comments on this topic is heartening, not horrible.

I don't know, maybe we read a different discussion thread, but I see most of the comments supporting women and women's surfing, rather than dissing it.

Could this be frontrunning a Roxy lingerie line ? Mad if they don't start covering ladies smalls and lacey intimates.

Roxy could do sporty, comfy and intimate underwear for the girls. What then ? And what is wrong if they do ?

Just because these girls are pro-surfers doesn't mean they don't have desires or intimate fantasies about guys, girls or with themselves.

Whats wrong with feeling sexy and dressing, or undressing sexy, in cotton, lace, leather or latex ?

Do they have to be boxed into 40 minute heats with either a red or yellow rashie for a title race ?

I reckon Roxy should go for it. It's a perfect brand & perfect fit.

All the girls need bras and knickers.

Sid, that'd be one hell of a ballsy market extension considering Roxy is pitched at 'girls' and not 'women' (hence the creation of 'Quiksilver Women' a few years ago, which was also closed recently).

yeah, well one year when all the shops were ordering boardies with hibiscus flowers, Greeny sent them Echo Beach, and most of the shops sent it back.

The rest is history. They have form.

and really, girls wear bras and knickers, er, derr, EVERYDAY. What's so ballsy about that ?

Pretty bloody obvious I reckon. Done tastefully, professionally, could be a master stroke.

There's a big marketing difference between Bonds and Victoria's Secret.

If Sarah Murdoch, an Empire Heiress, who could be 32 but looks 22, can shake her cotton tails for Bonds, I don't see anything too scandalous in, for example...

Roxy Intimates - cos you're beautiful. (nice ring too it.)

Sex? Girls? pffft, most girls over the age of 15 are sexually active one way or another.

Fair dinkum, do some of these wowsers think the world is a bloody Nunnery ?

"Roxy Intimates - cos you're beautiful" - hahaha.. you should be a copyrighter Sid.

Clif, Bec, as whaaaat, floyd, Sid, are obvioisly intellectually bankrupt, you need not put value on their currency.
Know for certain there are those here who support your ideals.

could you be love, or be loved...

FAIRNESS—A political strategy requiring that winners be treated unfairly.

LEVELING THE PLAYING FIELD—Severely tilting the playing field to achieve unnaturally equal results.

OBJECTIFICATION—The act of noticing that women possess an object called a vagina.

http://takimag.com/article/the_progressive_glossary_jim_goad/print#axzz2...

I don't want to get pitical but given some of the comments it might be worth thinking about how the rest of the world views Australian attitudes to women
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/07/06/opinion/in-australia-misogyny-lives...

@the -roller, where on earth did you find that one! classic.
@bb not only did men not like Julia"s antics, my wife could not stand her.
Not that these political assessments have anything to do with the Roxy ad! altho I do see where your coming from, the poor little wee loves get a hard time, for sure. Bless their souls
I love ladies.

How Julia. G was treated was appalling. But that's politics, it's riddled with scumbags, vermin and dirty tricks.

That misogyny speech resonated with women here and all around the world for a reason.

Whatever your politics and no matter her errors of judgement it should be acknowledged our former PM got a bad deal from the media and her political opponents in and outside her own party. And pray tell what gender were these "faceless men"?

So this so called serious discussion topic was titled "tits and arse on the webcast". And we have had all sorts of intellectuals (you know ill-informed but with an opinion anyway) discussing the merits of this marketing campaign and Steph's involvement and pro=offering its perhaps the start of Roxy bring out ladies undies.

Personally, I think this topic and many of the responses forms a new low for Swellnet.

Steph is great in many ways and for her own reasons (and she doesn't need to explain them to anyone) she did this thing. Good on ya girl and when you are sitting around a card table in your old age you can think back and smile and say yeah I was pretty cool back then.

That misogyny speech resonated with women here and all around the world for a reason.

Whatever your politics and no matter her errors of judgement it should be acknowledged our former PM got a bad deal from the media and her political opponents in and outside her own party. And pray tell what gender were these "faceless men"?

So this so called serious discussion topic was titled "tits and arse on the webcast". And we have had all sorts of intellectuals (you know ill-informed but with an opinion anyway) discussing the merits of this marketing campaign and Steph's involvement and pro=offering its perhaps the start of Roxy bring out ladies undies.

Personally, I think this topic and many of the responses forms a new low for Swellnet.

Steph is great in many ways and for her own reasons (and she doesn't need to explain them to anyone) she did this thing. Good on ya girl and when you are sitting around a card table in your old age you can think back and smile and say yeah I was pretty cool back then.

Relax puppy dog, you have posted x2
Chill and wait for the tin tin et to take its place!

Yes I think we all love Steph, with out a doubt! she can surf like a mother fuckin riot and as in this ad is as sexy as any other girl! God love her soul the little cutie ripper.

Sally on the front page of Sunday Telegraph in a skimpkini, looking healthy, happy and loving life... that smile ain't acting.

http://dailytel.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx

Anyone remember a trailblazer named Wendy Botha?

Well, Roxy's marketing team will be stoked. You know you've had a successful campaign when you're the #1 'most read story' on News.com.au (Australia’s highest traffic news website, as per Neilsen May 2013, with 2.9 million readers).

It's also currently #1 'most read story' at the Daily Telegraph, and #2 at the Courier Mail.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/roxy-deemed-to-foxy/comments-e6frfro0-...

So tits and arse it is then. You can never go broke under-estimating public taste. The dirty digger built an empire on that principle. Maybe Roxy can too.

Its strange the abyss in opinions in here .

It seems that all the sides part on whether or not their offspring or their siblings offspring is of the fairer sex .

I would of loved to interview all of the above " wowsers " ( not my words ) years ago before they had or became close to younger feamle offspring or relations ....

I think generally speaking , Surfing and ist marketing are closer to saints than sinners when compared to say Music , fashion or cosmetics .

And BTW , whait and sambo ss22 . you both arguiing a mute point .
AFL players have been running around sleavless jumpers for over a hundred years . Its more a reflection on the long term weather trends . Ie in the late fifties/sixties and early seventies it was a noticably colder/wetter winters period hence more longsleeves jumpers , and in some states bonus surfing apparatus pre wetsuits .
But go back further and you'l find guys running around in what could only be described as lace up corsetry? tops . ooh la la .

PS .
Steph , we've met .
Shared waves and travelled . Your smart , nice and actractive .
Power to you .

Signed .
An ugly bloke , with two young sons .!

Stu, That brush has a broad stroke across both genders. Justin Beeber/Teenage girls, Hugh Jackman/women general, Brad Pitt/ women general, David Beckham/ in his jocks with black pudding padding.

It's not just male or female human nature, it's nature nature.

I haven't witnessed a rauncy hens nite, but I've heard about 'em. I have sat around/in on a few teenage girls convos, whose content and language would make your head spin. Have you ever seen girls flick thru a calender of buffed footy players?

Foul language & poor form. Let's not fool ourselves, girls can be just a horrible as guys.

Then you can go to the Mardi Gras, where both genders, and trans genders, from all persuasions have got it all hanging out.

Surfing sits in the same kaliedoscope as the rest of the world.

Hate it or love it, there will be a lot more people watching the Roxy Pro because of the ad. Intended to cause controversy. Any publicity/good publicity.

In case you didn't notice, southey, at least a few of the commenters on this post are women themselves, so their ideas most likely come from personal experience of being a woman, not only knowing one.

I wouldsay the lines get drawn along how men think about women, and since most men I know have mothers (!) I'm not sure what a direct family relationship to a woman really changes.For example, the feminist politics of some fathers I know seems to be entirely focused on their own daughters and go no further.

Rebecca, do you like Madonna, her music? What are your views on the way she has promoted herself over the years ?

Don't know why we are talking about this. Men sell through strength and ability. Women sell through beauty, which is in its own way a form of strength. These are a reality of what we as normal people are generally attracted to. Its called being human. Sex sells because it projects a natural form of attraction to the intended market. It catches the eye. Steph looks great and good on her. She is a talented surfer, beautiful, and no doubt a lovely person also. Good for her. No big deal.

Oohh rebecca,Your avatar! Is that you getting flung between two strapping young beach fellas in the 60's?

Is that Southey on the left and Sid on the right?

Rebecca ,

In case YOU didn't notice , i didn't reference which sex the parent or uncle aunty was . Just that some girl/women YOUNGER ( by atleast one generation ) than them , within their direct family was open to being impressionable .......

Strangely i haven't seen you comment when this type of debate has raised its head here before ?

So not withstanding everyone has a mother and maybe even a little sister , but unless Tom Jones or Paul Mc Cartney are in town , then the mothers should be safe , and we all know that indifference to siblings whatever sex at Younger ages is very High to non existant .

So i'll stand by my words that people only tend to get concerned when
A: they are old enough to NOT be involved , and B: they feel a paternal/maternal connection to those that could be influenced .....
thats all i said , maybe focus on the Issues .

yep. I'm the one on the right, with my trunks pulled up high.

i wish i was old enough to remember when it was cool to " tuck your shoulders into ya trunks " .....
Them some high pants Sid !

classic fellas

good humour!

I know right, they got me a lot of big sexy time, back in the day.

Nowadays, it's pants on the ground.

That said, Southey, you got your pants lookin' pretty tight there yersef, you sexy hunk of spunk.

I don't believe there will be more people watching the comp because of the ad. People are reading about the promo and debating it. They aren't even mentioning the comp. That does not automatically translate to viewers of the comp. The people who like the ad and defend it are by and large men. Are they going to watch the comp and for what reason? Surely, men are not the target market for eventual Roxy sales. The response from girls and women has been predominantely negative and turning away from the brand. That can't be what Roxy wanted.

Sure, sport and sex will always be connected. Some people find fit bodies sexy. Sex sells. No one has denied that. However it's probably better for women's surfing if people get to appreciate the athletic ability and surfing skill. And fto market this in more creative ways rather than this told fallback position. This model Roxy has used will and has done more damage than good.

Never forget ladies that your achievements mean nothing unless anonymous men on the internet find you attractive enough (sarcasm).

Yeah that's the same point I've been trying to make all along Clif. Successfully creating a controversial ad is one thing, getting a ROI is another.

Will Roxy sell more apparel as a result of this marketing video? No-one knows (and I suspect no-one outside of the company will ever find out either). I suspect not though. In fact there is a reasonable argument that it could have the opposite effect. But again, we'll probably never know.

But even if they get more viewers to the webcast - which they may very well - there are two other points worth considering:

1. people logging on to the webcast in the hope of seeing tits and arse will be disappointed, as I suspect the live broadcast won't be anything like the promo clip
2. webcast numbers don't translate directly to clothing/merch sales anyway

Attn: Roxy, listen up, and listen up good.

Bras & knickers, all the way.

They are the first thing the girls put on everyday. Every girl, every day. Go for it, money for jam.

Yeah. Way better than bedspreads.

http://www.roxy.com/kelly-twin-xl-comforter/rxyusr7442c1mu

I dunno Ben, that's not a bad looking work-bench.

Sid will cheesed off if they actually run with knickers. I kind of agree, the teenies love that sort of stuff.

They should put out a small line of intimates to test the market then dive in if it's well received. I'd be very surprised if that idea hasn't crossed the table before though.

Jackpot! Just hit the top of the SMH homepage (using imagery, not just a link).

All we need now is an in-depth analysis on Crikey, a short article on Mumbrella and a segment on Media Watch, and it'll be Yahtzee.

Here's an interesting observation. SMH uploaded the story to their homepage this afternoon, with a screenshot from the video of Steph suggestively removing (or putting on) a white shirt.

An hour later, and SMH have replaced the image of her wearing a shirt, with one where she's topless with her back to the camera, the image placement has perfectly cropped any suggestion that she's wearing pants; her hands are seductively holding her hair (just like everyone does when they wake up, right?).

Perhaps the image with the shirt on wasn't getting the required click-throughs for a scintillating article on a drab Monday afternoon?

You can only imagine what was said in the editorial room: "Righto! Replace that photo with the one where she's naked. That'll do the trick and get our page impressions up".

Ah, the irony...

Hey Stu, seems this topic now has a mind of its own. Is the world now a better place?

Whatever the initial reason(s) - fun, naiveness or in the pursuit of fame or fortune if you put yourself out there sadly it seems you leave yourself open to the ravages of the media swill pit.

I have a sick feeling of deja vu about how all this works and where we go from here or am I just too jaded of years of gutter journalism?

Finally I will never support pro surfing but will defend the individual against the machine everyday.

While we're at it, is Steph single? Any lucky fella?

Here's the text from the YooToob page for the clip...

---This year, the Roxy Pro will also celebrate sport in general, presenting the Roxy Outdoor Fitness collection for the first time in Europe. You can already discover the sports online by entering the Roxy Pro official game: Vote for your favourite sport and share your pic for a chance to win a Running, Climbing, SUP or Yoga product pack!

As every year, the lucky ones who will join us in Biarritz will enjoy a mix of surf, music & sun during the event!---

Clearly, they recognise that their clientele extend far beyond surfing. They are girls, women, ladies FIRST. Surfing is a pastime they may or may not do, eg: they may just like hanging at the beach.

The prevailing attitude of this site betrays the readership...old men with fixed opinions caught out of time. Old fashioned and unaware. LOTS of people...women and men..spoke up about the ad and what they thought of it. Roxy is now on the back foot. People spoke up to the corporations and were heard. Yet anyone who criticise it here was patronised by Sid the Fish or had their intellect insulted by Floyd. Carry on old men the world is changing and you are not.

Is it Steph or Rosie Hodge?

V. good article on sexism and sport just out: http://m.guardiannews.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/08/andy-murray-marion-b...

Floyd, a key point of this debate is the individual vs the machine. Do you really reckon that brilliant surfers and people like Rosie, Steph or Sal would really make that mode of self promotion their first option if there was true, voluntary choice involved?

We're talking about a structural inequity inbuilt into the system, so ubiquitous most bloke don't see it, and those few that do get shouted down. Sometimes by well meaning blokes like yourself.

More from Jim Goad on the true meanings of a Prog's glossary.

CORPORATIONS—Malevolent yet generally non-coercive superorganisms that must be combated with a malevolent and entirely coercive superorganism known as government.

http://takimag.com/article/the_progressive_glossary_jim_goad/print#ixzz2...

I'm still waiting to hear what Bec, Sophie, even Clif et al think of Madonna & her music? What are their views on the way she has promoted herself over the years ? Most people think she is a pop diva. What about Pink ? What about Pink vs Adele ?

I have my views and they would probably surprise.

So often everyone here bangs on about pro-surfing and how it is crap and soul-less. Yet when Roxy comes along and tries to step beyond that and embrace the complexities of sisterhood, one of which happens to be being sexy, they get howled down.

Wasn't so long ago, women protested and fought for their sexual liberation and equality. They went from being denied sexual pleasure, to being: we are here, we are sexual, we are sexy, get over it.

Who is living in the frigid past ???

I think Madonna writes well-constructed pap but hear her live performances are outta sight.
I think Pink writes brilliant power pop and my youngest daughter says her live performances are awe inspiring.
I think Emmy-Lou Harris' voice could melt an iceberg.
I think Joni Mitchell's songbook should be compulsory reading in Year 9 English.

Thanks for asking,

Al

What's all the fuss about?
Is Roxy's behaviour so bad?
It seems the world needs to lighten up a lot.
Funny how the media defend no-one more vigorously then themselves ah Stu.

Agree with whaaat about Joni Mitchell.

And I think everyone should learn the words to Girls Generation songs.

Deep yet thought provoking:)

And not a panty in sight (just).

Allow Jim Goad to explain what's REALLY going on here.

http://takimag.com/article/spaying_the_queens_english_jim_goad/print#axz...

Go and check any of the girls twittergrams or hoaxbooks.

They are promoting themselves in this fashion.

The forecast for the event looks woeful....
http://roxylive.com/roxyprobiarritz/2013/report.en.html

Looks like the live shower cam will get a good workout.

Who are they Renton? Alana Blanchard?? Ellie Jean Coffey? Yes ALL the women are promoting themselves that way. Sarcasm.

I could check 50 professional women surfers who don't so its obvious where you're getting your skin fix.

Wet T-shirts? Shower Cams?

It's France boys and girls, a few hundred metres up the beach will be voluntarily topless/nude women having a lovely day down the beach. Not compulsory I believe.

oh, the horror.

FWIW, I think Madonna is a skanky ho, Pink is a hoax, whilst Adele is a phenomena.

(Sid likes to cruise up and down the coast in an Automobile, but he doesn't like motorsports on ethical or environmental grounds, so he didn't watch the V8s on the weekend. That worked for him.)

A second opinion piece in the SMH? My gosh, this topic is a runner (BTW, the article is a pretty good read too).

http://www.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views/dl-opinion/we-never-see-her-f...

~280,000 views and counting, Cori Schumacher's petition has 1,090 signatures and thats after tweeting in turbo for over a week.

<0.4% .

The other +99.5% , went "oh yeah, bit of booty, zzzzzzzzzzzz".

... Next.

Its a shame that the surfing industry has adopted marketing strategies which represent an attitude echoed far too much in our culture. I just think it sucks that (some) women are put under pressure to be aesthetically appealing to males (objectified). Its bloody hard to make surfing look good, no matter what's in your trousers. If part of a women's aspirations is to maintain sex appeal, then spending 2 years nose diving face first into water and coming up with spit hanging off the chin must not feel so great. Maybe part of the reason women's surfing has a niche market is partly due to this? For the record, I do not type on behalf of women or their aspirations, but with the assumption this ad (and many alike) represents what women's surfing is about. Compared to many other marketing strategies seen in mainstream media, this is is pretty tame though

Sid, a genuine question - how do you think Roxy would be feeling about this campaign so far? A success, or a dud?

Ben, I think they'd be (quietly) rapt that so many swallowed the bait, gave it legs and did the heavy lifting for them. Lets put it this way, no one in the promo dept will be losing their jobs IMO. If the surf turns out to be ordinary and the actual surfing component of the festival -surf, music and sun- is a fizzer, even more so.

Stu, I'll pull you up here a bit too, as much as I love your work. That being, in this articles' title you have used the exact same tags and pressure points that is being claimed Roxy have used in this promo.

There is NO titts in the trailer, just a lil' booty. There is no sex, there is no self gratification, there is no auto-suggestion of such. The faceless girl doesn't touch herself erotically, or wake up slutty with some strange bloke. All that has been implanted by the freakers.

More like she wakes up, has a shower and heads to the beach. Girls are doing the exact same daily, all over the globe.

Seems Roxy have recognised then tapped into the fact that there is so much more to the ladies, their clientele, than boring old surf comps.

Has anyone stopped to think how your average surfing girl, who simply enjoys the surf and the sun, feels being constantly compared to pro champs as they strive for status in the competition paradigm. Does it have to be all about robotic comps and matching it with the blokes ? What about health and life and love and sensuality and all things feminin ?

Fair enough Sid. I'm not so sure they'd be rapt, but then again we'll never really know, will we? (I agree on your point re: promo team though, they'd be very happy).

Now, briefly sidetracking to the thing this is all about - the surfing competition - and it looks like a poor surf forecast may really kick this event in the erm, tits 'n arse. From the ASP's press release:

"Due to the unfortunate swell forecast for this year’s Roxy Pro Biarritz, there is a possibility that the event may run and be completed as early as tomorrow, utilizing double banks to make the most of what is on offer."

With all of the hassles of timezone problems for watching overseas events, you could very well blink and miss the entire event.

" ..wakes up, has a shower and heads to the beach ...." Well yes, but with a video camera trained more or less constantly on her butt. 12 butt shots in 1 min 46s according to The Guardian. Sid, if you are trying to argue that this ad was not intended to be suggestive you will have to do better than that. The discussion is really about the acceptability of that kind of material as promotion for women's professional sport. Pretending that it is somehow not what it clearly is, adds nothing to that discussion.

And who has a shower BEFORE going surfing?

Maybe Women,s things happening? Zenagain.

I know I have one sometimes when I get back from the surf, only to wash off other male's ego's that have been out there. ha ha

Nope, no bare ass in the ad either, correct Stu. No titts, no bare ass.

You guys are right, every form of good advertisement has hook(s). I can still hear the drag screaming off.

BB, she probably had a wizzee on the loo too, as well as a shower, first thing in the morning. More shock, horror, girls have showers and bodily functions, who'd have thunk it? Start tweeting, Tweet NOW!. And who the hell counts butt shots anyway ?

Maybe I'm harder to shock than you guys/girls? But what I can assure you, is that clip and pretty thing is pure as snow compared to the young(ish) lass that climbed through Sid's bathroom window in the wee hours of Saturday morning seeking -quote- "just a cuddle" (yeah right). Well, she looked young, didn't ask, that would have been rude.

On that note, may I suggest all you young guys and old blokes get out there and purchase some intimates, (Sid's research suggests silk rather than lace, much softer under touch), aromatherapy candles, bath products and massage oils, for an evening to make your own divas feel extra special.

Cue - lights out, candles on. xxoxox... and don't forget to tell her Sid says hi.

It's not shock Sid and I am not being prudish. I think I already said back there that this is an issue that the women need to decide for themselves. If that is how they choose to fund their careers then fair enough. Personally, I don't think it would not be a wise move either individually or collectively as it turns athletes into models and makes appearance as important as ability in obtaining a sponsor. This ad brings that possible future one step closer.

Jeez, Sid, I hope you're a better sex therapist and sociologist than you are pundit:

Victor: "TPG will go as high as $3.50 share price...divide up [BBG] and pick up a cool 200 mil."

Sid: "anything under 5, tell 'em they're dreaming."

As for the youngish lass who threw herself through your window, I trust you were very nice to both her and her guidedog.

Ben,

Do you really think Roxy didn't expect a reaction like this? Surely they are not that stupid?

I reckon they'd all be doing handstands over the awareness the ad has managed to drum up. Not in their wildest dreams would they have imagined full page coverage by both the Fairfax and News Ltd media. Of course they set out to be controversial. Of course its deliberately gratuitous. You can't have numerous lingering, soft-focus shots zooming in on a semi-naked girls arse and not expect an uproar and thats exactly what they got. Massive win for them.

Like BB says though, its hardly up to a bunch of pussy-whipped middle aged men on a surf forum to decide what is an appropriate way to depict young women in advertising. If the girls are happy with it, who are we to judge?

Haha nice one whaaaat, sidney maybe it's time you pulled your enlarged head in before you embarrass yourself even more
Re the ad ,not appropriate in this context in my humble opinion, for all the reasons stu, clif, Sophie , bb etc have detailed way better than I can
Good article stu ps where's my volcom prize pack?

lolo, I've been under the impression from the start that they knew they'd get a big response. It's the heated backlash that I think they'd be surprised at.

"You can't have numerous lingering, soft-focus shots zooming in on a semi-naked girls arse and not expect an uproar and thats exactly what they got."

Actually, Roxy use this kind of stuff frequently for their marketing purposes. Except it's usually promoting specific clothing lines rather than a surfing competition (which is what the uproar focused on).

yeah, good one whaaat, that BBG turned out to be a real lemon, especially after the banks and hedgies done the hatchet job, just as well I never bought, nor never owned, ay. Mind you that 12c to 30c woulda been a nice play for a quickie last week, guess we both missed that one. Looks like one less evil corporation to grizzle about soon enough, that'll make a lotta folk happy.

Anyway, gotta zip, I can still hear the bells ringing at the Nunnery, almost loud enough to drown out Roxy playing some like fiddles.

Should anyone be looking for a REAL drama to protest, there's a bit of a happening in downtown Cairo, no titts or ass in sight, just brown people getting their heads blown off with hollow points.

Good on yer, Sid. Whatever else is said about you, no-one can ever accuse you of being thin-skinned or unwilling to have the piss taken.

And fair point about the gravity index.

I've been following this on here, in the links to the papers, even on the bloody radio. There has been some really good points and opinions raised and some good links too, but FFS, what a storm in a tea cup.

Its all about advertising, we're feeding it by discussing it, and woopdeedoo, sex sells. You can't tell me whoever starred in it, through to all those that were involved in it, didn't know there would be some uproar.

It will all be forgotten in a month or two and no one will give a shit.

And the winners are Roxy for the reasons outlined above & Swellnet for joining in and feigning concern about women's surfing advertising ...... generating such a spike in your hits here & on Facebook all bodes well next time you negotiate advertising rates ...... and lets see what you advertise here ....... currently there is ebay, pizza, the caravan show,endura and links to my shopping. Previously from memory there has been wallets, a dating site and some finance company.

Real hard core journalism boys ... keep this up and you might get snapped up by News Corp.

Today's the only day within the waiting period that's forecast to have anything remotely surfable, and it's effectively dead flat at Biarritz. After announcing "a full day of surf" at yesterday's press release, they delayed the call until noon, then delayed it again until 2pm.

Judging by the live vision they'll call it off for the day (local time is 1:55pm).

What will they do if there are no surfable waves at all within the waiting period? Split the prize money evenly amongst the competitors?

This is turning into one of the most bizarre surf contests ever.

As an aside, those pictures of the Mental Mentaiwis on the site today are just sick!

I decided not to watch the promo, seems silly.

I have a 10 yr old daughter who surfs. I must admit that the way female pro surfers display themselves / are displayed make me slightly concerned. I would hate for her to become a pro girl surfer... same as I would hate for her to be dancer in next to nothing clothes in hip hop videos! If I had a 10 year old son who was a surfer I would definitely want him to be a pro! Not sure what is going on with the tiny bikinis so many girls are wearing in the surf.

On Saturday just gone by, we rocked up at the local beachy and I took my daughter for a surf. There was one "role model" approximatley 20 yr old female surfer in the water, wearing a hot pants wetsuit thingy - in winter in South NSW with a howling icey west wind - we laughed at her together.

Does anyone know if Roxy definitely used Steph for the promo? Is Steph just assumed? And does anyone know whether a sponsor would pay enticing $$$ for one of the ladies in their team to do an Ad like that?

Just hopped tp another surfing site I look at before ploughing through my work, photo of the day is a pro woman surfer...

http://magicseaweed.com/photoLab/viewPhoto.php?photoId=298132&photoOfThe...

Withot doubt, there is mutual responsibility from the female pros and their sponsors in the way they are portraying themselves. I really doubt that the sponsor told that young pro surfer you can view in the link above to go surfing like that....

Then again Brad Gerlach did a nude surf shoot so maybe its an individual thing?? Surely some pro ladies cover up more in the surf??

I remember when the shots of Layne Beachley in that really SICK barrel at OURS came out - incredible!

What happens if they don't finish the Roxy Pro - any ideas?

I can't recall ever seeing a surf contest start and not finish let alone not even start!

I think they have a wet t-shirt playoff then if that can't be decided, a round-robin jelly wrestling comp.

I remember that contest when they split it. There was a hawaii contest, I think pipe masters where they considered it in the nineties but ended up running it in small surf at another break... The surfers had a say, voted to surf and they went ahead... I think Sunny Garcia won in 2 - 3 ft clean surf??

Thanks for the article Stu, it is good to get an opinion like that as often surf mags, websites etc will only post a pic of a girl in an outfit like that link avbove I shared.

Any of you fouintain of knowledge surf dudes know the answer to my questions That are a bit more on the point of the article...

Does anyone know if Roxy definitely used Steph for the promo? Is Steph just assumed? And does anyone know whether a sponsor would pay enticing $$$ for one of the ladies in their team to do an Ad like that?

Seems the argument by those offended by these adverts is they don't like the way the stick is rattling the swill bucket....

These folks with ZERO experience in advertising are NOT suggesting that the stick should stop rattling the swill bucket, but that the ads should be swirled in a fashion these people with no ad experience prefer.

It’s too bad that stupidity isn’t painful.

megan ? amy kotch I think at p pass and Maldives.

Maybe they'll run it at WaveGarden ;)

Maybe they won't ozzie if they found out the water was 10% urine.

This event really isn't turning out very well for all parties. The ASP just sent through a hastily written press release, condemning the comments of senior Quiksilver employee Chad Wells.

“The recently-published comments of a Quiksilver staffer are completely unacceptable and do not represent the values or the opinions of the ASP. The ASP draws its inspiration from the ocean – an arena that does not distinguish where you’re from, the color of your skin, where you worship or your sexual orientation. As such, we are are an organization of tolerance, objectivity and inclusiveness.”

Here is the article: http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/07/13/14/15/staffer-compares-ro...

Isn't that the reason for showers on every East coast beach, Bondi on a hot summers day would have to be 20%.

The event is officially cancelled. However - and this is very fortunate for Roxy - they've rescheduled it to run during the waiting period of the Quik Pro France at Hossegor. If the Quik Pro France didn't exist I suspect there'd be no economical way to make this happen.

In any case is presents an interesting scenario. The Quik Pro runs from Sep 26 - Oct 6. However, the last event on the Womens Tour (the brand new 'EDP Cascais Girls Pro', announced in late May this year) runs between Oct 3 - 7 in Portugal.

What this means is that they can't extend the Quik Pro waiting period to accomodate the women's event. So, they'll have to squeeze it all in at the same time. Giving them a minimum of one day between events for travel, the Roxy Pro will have to wrap up by Oct 1.

But that'll mean the guys giving up several days of good waves during a waiting period that often runs out to the end due to the wildly changing of conditions due (mainly) to large tidal ranges.

It is theoretically possible that the girls can run their entire event in one day (normally 27 heats in total, so 14 hours of half hour heats - but if they had only one day, 11.5 hours of 25 min heats or even 9 hours of 20 min heats). I suspect 20 min or 25 min heats may not be an option this time around, so let's assume it'll take at least two full days for the Roxy Pro - which means potentially two good days taken away from the guys.

And, as the girls have to finish up quickly, they may very well get priority over the guys. Imagine a scenario where they're looking at a bleak forecast period for the first half of the waiting period (it's happened at this time before in France). Let's say Sep 26 thru' 29 deliver poor waves, unsuitable for either the mens or womens event - well, the latest the girls can run two days will be Sep 30 and Oct 1. So if that scenario (and it's a big 'if') happened, then the guys would have only five days left to run their event.

Will be very interesting to see what pans out.

This is an issue that won't just go away. If anything it is going to get bigger especially after the election result we were told we had to have...check this (and especially the comments): http://kwiva.com.au/article/view/16/whats_wrong_with_being_sexy

apropos of nothing, and mindful of the east coast flat spell, perhaps some gaming is the go! http://www.collegehumor.com/embed/6911519/japan-world-cup-3-this-is-the-...

Well, this is an interesting response from Roxy on the whole shenanigans.

http://blog.roxy.com/2013/10/what-roxy-stands-for/

Standard PR take on a stuff up I would think Ben. More to the point if Zosea and whoever else gets involved are serious about marketing surfing to a wider audience they need to rush headlong into the nineteen eighties and get the cameras off every bikini that walks along the beach. It's not being prudish, it's being respectful and more to the point it massively reduces the potential audience. It is a long time since it was only a few feminists who were turned off by this sort of voyeurism. These days it would be the vast majority of women and a very significant percentage of men.

Ben, those two comments of October 9 sum up the reactions from the female world and I have to admit the advert was met with disdain from my partner.

However it was 60% off at the Quiksilver shop and she picked up a kick arse bikini set for $25, so go fiqure.

And Blindboy add to that the amateurish commentating from the blokes with sexist references, cheap humour.

So selling womens clothing using sexual advertising seems a bit passé..?

Huh...I remember a calendar of the Womens Hockey team trying to raise funds for the Olympics...pretty raunchy to say the least...

sex in surfing obviously sells...what have the athletes to say ..about being used this way...??

There is no empirical evidence to suggest that sex sells in surfing. More broadly, the scholarly research shows that sex does not simply "sell". eg. Parker, E. and Furnham, A. (2007), Does sex sell? The effect of sexual programme content on the recall of sexual and non-sexual advertisements. Appl. Cognit. Psychol., 21: 1217–1228. doi: 10.1002/acp.1325

There is clever advertising and marketing and there is dumb shit like Roxy put out.

I do find it interesting that webcasters think it OK to film (and broadcast) this stuff. If you were to wander around the beach filming like this as a normal joe public, you would (quite rightly) get arrested for being a sleazy pervert.

Sex doesn't sell in Surfing..is that mens or womens??

I am sure that Womens Surfing brands are very conscious of who represents them....Alan Blanchard being the poster girl....as for Roxy..what a marketing coup...there has been worldwide condemnation of the Add...which means advertising.......

so the Roxy add has been a worldwide success in bringing publicity to the brand........

and as I watched the cricket last nite...there wwere so many shots of women in the crowd...but only the good looking ones....so....??

I think that's the problem here...everyone is taking the Roxy add way too serious...

I actually listened to the chick who organized the 20K+ petition against Roxy's use of STeph in their advertising ...sounded like someone from the ol days complaining that Rock n Roll was Satans music and should be banned....oh those conservatives....

Maybe I just lived too long in France...where the Roxy Add was first aired......the French must be laughing their heads off again at the critics who just seem to have too much time on their hands....and really need to do more with their lives....

sounds serious!

Worth reading the entire thread, m-c. People have already discussed this argument about "conservatism" and "seriousness". As for any publicity being "good" publicity and sales it's not that simplistic (as advertisers and marketers know all too well). The brand image has been damaged. 20,000 plus signatures on the petition means a lot of people are concerned. They aren't against sex per se but against objectification and its impact on the how the sport is perceived. Worth knowing the difference to understand the debate. By the way, French surfers signed up to the petition.

clif,read it all been in the USA for 3 mths and not very active on Swellnet ,

watched the reaction in Cal,saw Cori S ..former world champion she says....delivering her petition on a talk back show....

I still don't see a problem with the Roxy add.....and certainly the Roxy Brand has been given an enormous boost in bringing the brand into so many households....if mum and dad don't like the add...kids will like it...simple...

Hmm how is surfing now perceived?

...mens ,womens....and why do we need to be so ah...prudish when it comes to surfing.....unless you are an ultra conservative..who would never buy Reef products....and believes that adds with no tits no arse are still too raunchy for a female athlete to do....

ah those Victorian values...pun intended!!

This is an outrage!

Cori Schumacher, where are you pussycat?

http://au.sports.yahoo.com/galleries/g/20818374/hottest-female-players-a...

What concerns me is that womens sport always whinges about sponsors and air time. Shouldnt they be marketing to their own kind -ie women? Guys like to watch sport because we like to see what it takes to win, what tactics and and skill levels are required to defeat the enemy. Womens sport seems to pander to pervs, then sooks about not enough recognition and money or being perved on. Market to the girls....do they want to see scantily clad bimbos? Are you gonna be more more sexy than Taylor Rain? Unless ,of course, its only the fellas that will pay and watch 2nd rate performances in the hope of seeing a gstring. I dont get womens sport sometimes, they need to achieve at least comparable to male performance in areas like surfing and skating, where strength isnt an issue (see gymnastics) otherwise, unless you perform get used to Australian tennis open coverage where your looks count for more than your serve. The working women need to support their own, dont blame the men. Yes! men are very predictable, its fckn boring but otherwise we wouldnt work fkn boring jobs for 12 hr days or do anything at all for that matter. I am open for a feministic debate...........

"I don't even know what my point is."

Classic...........

Zen, Outrageous ? I think it is Spectactular .