The Wikileaks cables also deals with the facts that SeaShepherd is causing extra costs for the illegal Japanese whaling operations and reducing the actual number of whales killed every year.

It adds credibility to the fact that Sea Shepherd are being effective in their stated aim of saving whales and not indulging in hypocritical back-room double dealing.

Indeed TERRORISM is an affective protest tool. Please this season without mentioning whale , can somebody justify " Violence to enforce belief " .

joggly, diplomacy and talks were agreed on and then blatently ignored. Do you have any other suggestions on how to achieve a universally agreed outcome??? The governments are going to do fuck all beside talk bullshit and feed it to us, as they have shown. At least someone has the balls to actually do something proactive, because the fucking whales can't protect themselves can they.

Thats a broad definition of terrorism you're rocking Joggly.

I'd say it is the Japanese whaling in an agreed whale sanctuary under a spurious legal loophole who are closer to that definition rather than the volunteers trying to prevent the illegal slaughter.

I think what this shows is that Garrett was actually trying to foster a deal that would actually do something.

I'm sure he is more aware than us of what is actually possible through the political system.

Stopping Japan from Whaling is probably not a real option. However trying to lower their numbers and force them out sanctuaries is.

So it's a shame he is not Environment Minister anymore.

Oh and don't forget, Australia was one of the nations that nearly pushed the whales to extinction. We only stopped whaling in 1978. That's not that long ago.

Who's the wanker that think garret was trying to do a good job by decieving the public.

Go back to school wanker.

...."Get into the gig with a good heart and good intention".....

It's really hard to make that leap of faith when considering the motivation of most pollies.

Especially Garrett who had such a history of passionate advocacy.

His silence was deafening whilst environment minister and if he was just following the orders of a political cadre shit-scared of giving fuel to the Murdoch attack dogs then it doens't say much for the strength of his convictions.
Or his heart.
Short term political opportunism manifested in a display of breath-taking cowardice.

I think history had already judged Garrett a monumental political disappointment.

But I'd love to hear why you think otherwise.

Just curious...... but why is intervening in the hunt and placing yourself in the harpoons way to stop a whale being killed "Terrorism"?
After all it was proved that the so called 'biological attacks' were actually the projectiles that the japanese whalers threw at Sea shepherd only for them to fly back into their own faces!
And we all know that the Japanese government illegally and knowingly sanctioned hundreds of millions of dollars worth of illegal overfishing in Australian territorial waters of our Tuna stocks and covered it up for decades, then bought off our government with a couple of million in 'damages' Did the Tune fisherman see any of that? did it help the Tuna stocks recover or was it used to pay out someones pension fund?
So who are the real terrorists in this? Seems to me that the Japanese action was clearly a form of economic and environmental "Terrorism"
And now we have proof of our own governments lying to us and colluding.

No wonder they want to shut up Wikileaks
Who would've thought our government wasnt honest with its voters!
Im shocked and saddened at such a discovery......not.
Hey, while were at it...why dont we show those naughty Ayrabs how to manage a 'DEMOCRACY'. Because we're obviously so good at it.

Now
if we could just get a decent swell rolling in down south.....................
I could get out of here and stop annoying everyone!

maybe I should just take up golf.......lol

Still no answer ? SS sink a whaling ship 100 japanese sailors die. Do I accept responsibility as a supporter of SS ?

Ps if it helps > Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.[1] No universally agreed, legally binding, criminal law definition of terrorism currently exists.[2][3] Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for a religious, political or ideological goal, deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (civilians), and are committed by non-government agencies.

...Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts which are intended to create fear "

You honestly think SS is creating fear in the hearts of Japanese whalers or Japanese civilians?

And if you want an example of terror activity youtube Ramming , Balaclava clad crossbows and the one that turned me, Prop fouling in heavy seas. Quote a safety record and thats a acknowledgement of risk. While your on youtube read the majority of comments. SS losing the propaganda war they started ? Doing more harm than good in the "Fight" to save the whales ?

Anyway been thru all this before , I Just want to know what to teach my kids ... sea someone doing something you don't like push them back hard enough till they fall backwards and hit their head on the kerb ? Time for a real change , not Watsons medieval diversions.

can somebody justify " Violence to enforce belief

Joggly, the world is a peacful place. Very much so, in fact at the height of the biggest wars in history (WW1 & WW2) less than 1% of the worlds population were fighting. The remaining 99 + % had peace. Peace is what you make yourself. Violence on this planet is almost non existant and a media beatup.

That aside, a bit of violence has always been used throughout history and who are we to argue that it is totally unjustified? In any event Sea Shepherd are not particularly violent. And teach your kids facts: That is some folk choose to fight for their belief. Barbaric perhaps, wrong perhaps, but a fact of life we are unable to change.

Joggly, as in the case of WW2 and the every day policing of the state which maintains the rule of law and keeps you and your kids living in the most peaceful, democratic way of life in human history, most people accept the proportionate use of force to protect the law.

So tell me again: how many lives have been lost in this "reign of terror" that Sea Shepherd are unleashing on Japanese whalers illegally slaughtering whales in a whale sanctuary?
What; none?

So are you against the whaling in the Southern Ocean whale sanctuary but disapprove of the Sea Shepherd methods?

Or are you in favour of the whaling?

As to what to teach your kids; I'd hope mine would have the courage to stand up to bullies engaged in an illegal slaughter of wildlife.

Whaling needs a cultural answer, as is facilitated by anti-whaling activist groups in Japan. Violence begets violence, division and hardlining. Always has and always will.

If you are really concerned for the whales do not simply give money to SS. Get involved with activists on the ground changing whaling culture in Japan through re-training for fishermen, changing school menus,education camapaigns etc. The long-term solution lies at the source and not in the open ocean. SS and governments have BOTH proven they neither have sustainable answers.

WW2 Inspiring stuff. Now we are getting somewhere . Thank you. Big supporters of the global militarization of our planet to ? Front and back bumper stickers yew ! Thank Huey Nth Korea don't hunt whales ... or do they ? It's not pro or anti whaling that gets my goatie it's the mindless hypocrisies and ultimate dumbing down of issues that we have power to change. I can flick to another forum currently underway on this very site by many of the above users and there , the cry is for compassion and understanding for the perpetrator of another inhumane crime. Belittling those THUGS whose desire is to pursue and deploy heavy handed tactics. The Sermon ... blame rests on all our shoulders for the misguided. Ps I'm thinking that there might occasionally be some sanctioned WAR GAMES here in Oz , that utilize extremely damaging techniques in Cetacean filled waters. i.e. Sonar and EXPLOSIVES that mayb more relevant than chasing an already self destructing industry. Jolly rogers to you all !

As always, everybody here has an axe to grind when it comes to an issue as contentious as whaling. I have done some in-depth research into the whaling issue, and the facts (note: facts, not buzzwords, warcries or splenetic rantings) were very surprising.
Being a lover of nature (really, when it comes down to it, who isn't), I object to the killing of whales at the most basic of levels. It is reprehensible, but the propaganda that prevails throughout the media is nothing short of indeed that: propaganda. It shuns away from cold hard facts, instead resorting to heartstring-pulling misrepresentations and blinkered over-simplification of what is undeniably a complex issue.
I have spent time living in Japan, and guess what? Shock, horror... Japanese people are not baying for whale-blood. I have relatives who would not be alive today were it not for the availability of whale meat in the post-war period. But from the necessity that whaling was in the past, it is now something of a matter of governmental pride that they continue. I'm not even going to talk about 'The Cove', as although it got a lot of attention, it is also a total crock. Virtually noone in Japan is even aware of the one town in Wakayama that hunts dolphin. But back to the point, the decision that Japan has made to continue whaling is a concerted one - they are NOT breaking the law, at least not the law set down by the IWC, which condones its whaling activities, so long as they stick to their quota. Please note that they hunt nothing other that Minke whales, which are plentiful; the number they take each year (about a thousand, if that) is nowhere near enough to dent the extant population. So when people moan about endangered animals being killed, they are outright wrong. Japan whales because it wants to, and because it does not want to be emasculated any more that it already has been. It might also serve us well to note that it was western countries that were responsible for diminishing the population of species such as Humpback etc through decades, even centuries, of industrial-scale whaling.
The 'research' that Japan carries out, though I agree that it is nothing more than an excuse, is valid, and commissioned by the IWC. By taking readings from the inner ears of whales, they get a good idea of age, sex, health, overall population and so on. Whilst the sample size is perhaps unnecessarily large, they are collecting important scientific data. Their ultimate aim is to cultivate the whale population to the degree that moratoriums might some day be lifted, and that sustainable international whaling might continue.
The inhumanity of the killing process is another point of concern, to both myself and everyone else out there. But in all truth, they do it as quickly and painlessly as they know how. A whale is a big animal - squishing an ant is much easier than slaughtering a cow. They are not animal-mutilating psychopaths. They want to kill the whales as swiftly as possible. Who wants a several-ton whale thrashing about for longer than is absolutely necessary? Besides, natural deaths are much, much, much more painful and drawn out.
We like whales because they are mammals, they are intelligent (apparently), and they are graceful, powerful and beautiful works of art. But in all fairness, if it swims in the sea, looks like a fish, and acts like a fish, it's basically a fish. So let's not get our knickers in a twist just because we have a soft spot for whales. I, for one, am much more disgusted by the current systems in place that allow unsustainable overfishing and shark finning. Japan, if anything, should be reprimanded for its tuna fishing practices (along with most of the rest of the world), rather than its whaling.
And by the way, why is Norway never mentioned in all this?

Craggles, I just don't buy into your pro whaling bullshit. For the record, the whale meat ends up in restaurants, school lunches and pet food tins. It is a big bucks commercial fishing that is unneccesary and conducted by a nation that has a track record of plundering the seven seas with lies as the excuse.

The whale is no more important than a tuna, a salmon or any other sea life but it is symbolic. If we can't stop whaling what hope is there for anything else in the sea? Species numbers are irrelevent, only humans think they have the right to say how many of one animal type is enough. The world's oceans are in danger of chronic over exploitation.

I value the ocean and I support Sea Shepherd, they are the only people actively trying to make a change. All the other anti whaling mobs have done nothing but sip sake with poker faced Japanese businesmen who mutter politely on Sunday then get back to overfishing on Monday.

The Japanese whaling industry is based on greed, not need.

Jeez Toggles for someone who seemed intent on delivering cold hard facts in didn't take you long to dive headlong into your own and common Japanese prejudices.

You dismiss the Cove as "a crock" because most Japanese aren't aware of it.
So you can dismiss that inconvenient little fact that dolphins are herded up and slaughtered in the most barbaric fashion because "virtually no-one" is aware of it?
Sorry mate, you can't just wish things away because you don't like it.

And you have your "facts" somewhat mixed up again when you state they only kill minke whales.
Japan has issued permits to kill (for "research") 50 endangered Fin whales and 50 humpback whales.

Yes, the same humpbacks on which coastal communities have built sustainable tourism industries from.

As yet Japan has used the threat of killing humpbacks as a way to "up the ante" in whaling negotiations, in the same way North Korea uses nuclear weapons to continually press forwards it's demands.

In Japans own words: "Japan agreed to postpone the take of humpback whales at the request of the Chairman of the IWC as long as it views that progress is being made toward the normalization of the IWC considering that it is important at this critical moment to avoid overly emotional responses from anti-whaling countries."

In other words: you give us back the right to hunt whales commercially and we will stop the threat of killing humpbacks.

Japan has killed fin whales in the internationally recognised Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary and this, as well as the loophole definition of "scientific whaling" is the basis of Australia's legal case in the International Court of Justice against Japan.

A little more research into the "facts" might help your argument next time Toggles.

craggles, thanks for providing a little balance in what is mostly an emotion based opinion thread.
i hope you don't get too much flack for it but i fear those of a seized attitude will swarm.

on a slightly divergent note, it's hard to see (environmentally speaking) any impact being made until we as humanity accept responsibility for the current situations and then take a more holistic approach to seeking solutions.

the current attack and blame game leads either nowhere or to worsening the situation.

the no.1 problem, i'd suggest, is the species which is at the centre and correlates directly to all of the ensuing megaconundrums. until we accept our own culpability we will continue to apply septic band-aids.

.."...on a slightly divergent note, it's hard to see (environmentally speaking) any impact being made until we as humanity accept responsibility for the current situations and then take a more holistic approach to seeking solutions."

No one would argue with that Kieru but in relation to the issue at hand here: Whaling in the Southern Ocean, what would you suggest?

It's easy to come up with platitudinous responses, much harder to make a concrete action which has some outcome in reality.