Billabong Pro Pipeline: Day 2
Historic is a wildly misunderstood and misused term, especially by the Woz commentators, who, let's be honest, are A-grade experts at butchering the English language.
History means pertaining to the past; the study of past events. Historic, does not normally include mediocrity in its purview, even if something is the first, or close to the first.
Let's not get churlish, but today at Pipe was not an historical day. What stood out today was not history but its complete absence. This is the closest thing to a completely fresh slate a global sporting franchise has had in the modern era. Contrary to the breathless commentary there are no “big names”; just various levels of learning on the job. The most experienced competitor and surfer - the only one with any kind of Pipe history behind her - is 22-years old and not on Tour.
Moana Wong didn't need much of that experience to progress in rinky dinky 3-5ft Pipe, brushed clean by a gentle offshore breeze.
Moana Wong (Heff/WSL)
There are big questions about how to cover this as a professional sport at the elite level. Learning on the job, especially when being done by kids, is not something associated with elite sport, or any kind of professional activity. It's almost unique to pro surfing and women's pro surfing in particular.
Mangling sporting comparisons is a stock in trade for mainstream media coverage of surfing, but imagine a 16-year old girl at Wimbledon who'd never played on grass. A golfer who wasn't sure how to use the putter.
Take it out of the surfing realm and imagine a 16-year old plumber showing up to fix the toilet and she had no idea how to unblock the S-bend.
We assume the elite, those earning top dollar for their skills, will arrive on the main stage with the apprenticeship served and ready to rumble. With Pipeline and especially the women's comp, that's clearly not the case.
Is gushing paternalism as default appropriate then? Last place finishers at Pipe, and we now have two after today's action, win $9,000 USD. Which means 19-year old Caroline Marks wins $9,000 USD for an hours work consisting of eleven waves, the best of them being a 2.33. Courtney Conlogue's best wave for the nine grand was a 2.60.
It's going to take time, I know. In the interim, how long do they expect the sporting public to come along for the ride, until the standard is anything approaching elite?
Big Questions, and for the record, I'll be covering the Women exactly the same as the Men. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it'll be called a duck, which means I won't make Jessi Miley-Dyer's 2022 Christmas card list.
Tyler Wright (Bielman/WSL)
Starting at the top, Malia Manuel got the deepest and longest and only proper tube ride of the day. A very delightful drainer for an 8.17 in Heat 2.
Moana got the job done, as did the other women with Pipe experience, including Tyler Wright, Tatiana Weston-Webb, Carissa Moore, and Bethany Hamilton.
We watch Pipe primarily for its gladiatorial dimensions, and the presence of women in UFC has shown there is no gendered aspect to that primal sense of combat. Who can maintain control of their skillset and composure in the face of extreme fear is a question asked by every set wave at proper Pipe - one that few punters watching at home could answer in the affirmative.
We learned almost nothing about that vital question today after Day One of the women's comp. The closest things we have to even an inkling are provided by Moana Wong and now, Bethany Hamilton, filling in for Steph Gilmore who was sidelined by the Woz Covid protocols (does she have it, or not?). Hamilton was not engaged in any serious way to employ her Pipe skill set.
Bethany Hamilton (Bielman/WSL)
Less than a month ago, at the Da Hui Backdoor Shootout, Hamilton went from breastfeeding a baby on the beach to spinning on a Second Reefer and packing a giant closeout. It was one of the single most mind-blowing sporting performances I've ever seen. So we know, Hamilton will go.
Others may not. Asked in her post-heat presser if she was excited about the prospect of facing ten foot Pipe, Tyler Wright answered blithely “not really, no”. Explaining she was scared shitless, more or less. Rookie Molly Picklum, who won her Round 1 heat against Sally Fitzgibbons and Courtney Conlogue said she, “slept well knowing the waves were dropping”.
I think we get the picture. Yes, the girls got their feet wet today. But when the next swell arrives there will be a gulf, perhaps huge, between what the sporting public is baying for, and what the girls will be capable of delivering. With rare exceptions like Wong and Hamilton, and possibly Carissa Moore.
How will the WSL deal with that? Fill the gaps between the expectations and the reality with “toxic positivity” where everything is great and the best of all possible worlds until it isn't?
It's taken a champion of Gabe Medina's global stature to finally puncture that wall of positive noise.
How far will the League go to shield the women from the reality of Pipeline and the judgement of the public? Will they throw teenage girls to the wolves for the sake of making an historical statement?
We are about to see how the reality of Pipe as blood sport fits with the WSL commitment to female equality.
// STEVE SHEARER
Comments
Fair analogies and applies to both Men and Women.
Hypothetically, what happens if the girls get sent out into on par or better than yesterday? Quote from Wozzle being today was “Barrier Shattering Performances.” The highlight reel said otherwise.
Solid writeup, going to be interesting remainder of the comp. I remember reading somewhere that the smaller/in between days are when alot get hurt? Not sure whether it's because of more under-skilled punters, the way it breaks at 4 vs 6-8ft? Either way good luck to the girls must be sketchy cutting your teeth on live TV, I wouldn't be out there (or would I for $9000 - maybe if I had the visored gath... Nah i'm a wimp)
Yep, looked like a classic case comparing yesterday to today.
Yesterday being quite bigger and heavier but with Pipe doing it's proper wedge/peak thing allowing an entry for the confident and skilled. Ie easier.
Whereas today with it dropping, it's not allowing any real peak/wedge let in and was slabbing straighter on the inside reef, so heavier and trickier. More so luck of the draw in average surf.
Was up before dark with the new pup and cheekily put it on the TV while he destroyed various things in the garden.
Absolutely woeful viewing. Wasn't expecting men's level performances by any means but I'm not sure I even saw anyone get a legit barrel.
Feel asleep on the couch and woke up at 630 with the dog licking my hand. Highlight of the morning up until that point.
Ten more days in the waiting period and many of them have great Pipe written all over them. Bigger than today, but only marginally (6 foot some days, 6-8 others) and with fresh swells they'll be more consistent, light wind regime too. So why did they run it in the lully, head-high stuff they had today?
The Pipe specialists couldn't capitalise on their skill set, and luck became a big factor for progressing or not. Did they have priority when the only set of the heat came in..?
Felt to me like the modern equivalent of 'sending the girls out when the conditions deteriorate'.
It's not like they can't cope at solid Pipe. They ran footage during the webcast of Steph, Moana, Riss, Tyler, and maybe some others, all getting superbly barreled at much bigger Pipe.
Not much can be gained by way of experience, or line up time, when it's four foot. It's like training for Waimea by surfing Pinballs.
I hope they don't finish the Women in the one or two smaller days left in the waiting period. That'd be disappointing for all involved.
Well honestly it was Sunday in north america,
so i guess it may have been a factor in running.
bums on seats, eyes on screens.
Wosl ten years deep waiting for that mainstream audience.......
some pretty heavy wipeouts, take offs.
That might explain why the final event is at Trestles rather than indo or fiji - better timezone for a US/Brazzo audience...
I think they had El Salvador planned as the finish event. Running it could be difficult in these " times"
Surfers may have protested also as it is only a right ( point) no lefts
?
I like trestles , I think it should just be the last event though. No top 5 b/s
.
That last sentence! It will be interesting what will happen at Teahupo'o in the next olympics.
it's going to be very "interesting" seeing these events unfold
Toxic positivity!
Excellent.
Glad you’re covering the woman’s as well. Always look forward to your write ups.
Got to admit how unimpressed I am with the lack of professionalism shown by so many pro surfers. Many of them seem to think preparation involves sit ups in their garage, jet ski jump off sessions at an East coast beachie or back flips into a foam pit.
It’s never been a secret that the way to master a break is to spend extended periods of time there, whether you’re a pro or a punter. Some crew like Adriano Desousa clued into this and reaped the rewards with marked improvement. Yet it seems that most pros still think their job involves rocking up at location X a couple of days before the hooter blows.
Even if the chicks aren’t scoring prime sets at Pipe, any dedicated pro surfer should have been parked up in Hawaii surfing every condition, every single day in order to familiarise themselves with the place and it’s power.
Finding a cheap bit of floor space in someone’s house for a couple of months and forging yourself into a hardened North shore warrior, or as close as you can get, is surely the base scenario for someone who wants to show they are worth getting paid to stand on a surfboard?
Margies comp ends on the 4th May and G Land starts on the 28th May. How many chicks are going to bail straight to Java from WA and get thirty sessions out G Land before the comp kicks off? It’s not like you’ve got to do it every year, once you know the place you only need an abbreviated refresher course. For a young hungry pro surfer it’s a non decision to know that reef like the back of your hand.
Agreed
Before ADS, and arguably more poignant, was Slater and Pipe.
Recall an interview where he said he saw so many make or break moments happen at Pipeline that, despite coming from Florida, he knew he'd have to master the wave if he was to have any future as a pro, so he applied himself like scholar.
And there was Fanning who arrived at teahupoo a couple weeks early in 2007 from memory because he’d never done well there.
Then got a runner up to one of the hobgoods and finished the year with his maiden world title.
Fuck why wouldn’t you want to be there for as long as you could? I mean for most
‘CT level pro surfers all they have to do from day to day, all year, is work out 2 things; where they want to surf and what they want to eat.
Place is heaven even for a punter like me. If I was even a shadow of a QS warrior I’d be paddling out at pipe in the dark every day, once the sun came up slink down the way to OTW where you had half a chance of getting a good one.
Anyone of the women with a sponsor should be doing the same at Tahiti as well.
I reckon you’ve got to do it everywhere. ADS did it at Bells and it transformed him.
A lot of the rookie blokes got away with sparse knowledge yesterday because it was perfect. All they had to do was nut up, pick a wave which wasn’t an obvious close out and their high skill set did the rest. Local knowledge makes the most difference when it’s not perfect, when it’s shifty and unpredictable.
BTW…Stu - You can look back further to the first generation of pro surfers like Rabbit and Ian Cairns who used to turn up for the whole Hawaiian season. It wasn’t just about getting that comp result , it was about flexing their talent in the lion’s den. One led to the other.
I read an article/interview with a female surfer who was complaining that pipe was a sausage fest and it was not fair. I thought what do you want, a welcome mat because you are female ? Do you think anyone who has not surfed pipe before gets a welcome mat ? You want to master pipe, stay on the north shore, get up and surf it early in the dark, surf it cross shore, pull into hopeless closeouts and earn your stripes like everyone has done.
Edit - having been fortunate enough to spend a couple of winter trips on the north shore riding a sponge and also a bit of time at puerto Escondido on a surfboard I always that a couple of months at Puerto pulling into pits was the perfect prep for Hawaii (and that was my vague plan until I chased tail instead. Probably for the better as my aspiration was far greater than my talent)
Worked for Rick Kain, but he did have the guidance of Chandler.
Don’t you need to start in wavepool then?
Oh stop it.
“When the wave breaks here, don't be here. ...”
Obviously Jake Marshall has not seen North Shore the movie!
Excellent.
Well said
Unfortunately the author continues the butchering of that to which "history" refers. History does not refer to the past - this is to continue the philosophical naivety of the historian who asserts that history is the study of the past. Those who carefully read philosophy understand that history refers to the way of being human, which is temporal in its essence ie the unity of having been, the present, and the yet to be - this harks back to the Greeks who articular being as potential and actual. Only from the temporal way of being human can there be "the having been," which is naively asserted as the past. Who we have been is never past, it is not possible, for if all were past, separate from the present and the future, there would be no present or future. Moana Wong, having been a surfer, competes on the world tour today as a surfer, and indeed may surf on the world tour tomorrow.
I've read this three times and I still have no idea what you're on about.
Me too.
Love it! You're almost evoking the concept of eternal return mentioned in 'The Unbearable Lightness of Being'. As history/lit grad, I'd suggest you are putting a fair bit of literary philosophy into this comment - nothing wrong with that.
But just as most people accept Australian dollar notes in this country rather than gold coins for transactions, most people will accept History as being the study of what is defined as the past; with some hope to learn from it to guide the actions that can be made in the future.
A little deviation here, but nice one Stephen.
The present has within it latent futures. There are processes set in train, but they are not yet evident, and there are propensities present, but they are not yet realised. What could have happened (but did not)? What could never have happened (but did)? The future is continually unfolding and interacting across space and time. The present has a duration. It has a thickness.
:)
No, history is about the past..
Guess the tricky one this year is that the Da Hui Backdoor Shootout had every Pipe gun hanging on the North Shore for a month before hand so to get a wave off one of these guys on the in between days would have been near impossible?
You probably wouldn't need to actually catch many waves, Just get out there on those solid and perfect days and get amongst the crowd. Feel the energy, cop a couple of second reefers on the head, and see which waves are getting taken by the top of the pecking order.
Yeah true.
First time poster, long time surf comp watcher and ex kneelo (first comp attended, the night surfing comp at Cronulla 1984). Great analysis of the first "historic" women's comp day at a languid Pipe/Backdoor. The WSL commentators really do the women no favours with the level of hyperbole about some very average conditions and performances.
Pipe is such a high performance wave requiring a combination of hard-charging/technique and experience. A number of the competitors yesterday in the men's heats were caught out by a lack of experience; incorrect positioning, choosing the wrong wave and not having clocked up enough pre-comp Pipe surfing.
What to do about the women's lack of experience? Surely, that is up to the individual surfer, man or woman? Do the surf companies have mentors who could guide them at Pipe? Or is it simply a case of putting the time in and learning from experience (admittedly, very difficult at such a competitive line up as Pipe). If the Pipe event is a tandem event, why not have the women caddy for the men and vice versa? the channel is often the best place to watch the conditions in any line up and check out the take-off spot, time the sets etc.
One solution is to send the women out in quality conditions and give them the opportunity to test themselves? the water patrol is on stand by, and the women can test themselves without having to negotiate a crowded line up.
I want to see every surfer who paddles out at Pipe, get the wave of their life and put their surfing skills on the line. I want to see the women's comp at Pipe held in quality conditions, free of hyperbole and condescending comments from the WSL commentators.
Keep up the incisive analysis. Cheers
Yep
A few years back, Fanning went to Tahiti a month or so before the comp because he knew he had a weakness to deal with.
As Blowin points out above, De Souza has done it it at Pipe and Bells. Looks like Jack Robbo parked his arse in Hawaii for at least the last 3 months.
The last women's CT event was in September at Trestles so if anyone really wanted to improve on a weakness they had had plenty of time.
I read an article in the Sydney paper last week where Tyler Wright complains about the crowd, the fact they are mostly male, and doesn't really want to spend the time to gain experience out there. Performances reflect that sentiment.
Robbo wouldn’t be there for the same reasons though. He would just be there for the waves. He is probably one of the only guys on tour that is not Hawaiian but grew up surfing big heavy waves of consequence
That article was in the Melbourne Age as well, and I thought it was a pretty lazy piece. Only Tyler Wright was interviewed from memory, and the overt between-the-lines message seemed to be 'don't expect too much because it's a "sausage-fest" and we never get a clean crack at it'. Seemed to be a pre-emptive excuses session and reflected poorly on her in my opinion, especially when you consider the points about putting in the time and , of course, the sheer commitment of Bethany Hamilton.
Despite the poor conditions, the challenges for women's surfing were laid bare and I think if everyone is serious about it there needs to be a different approach than simply expecting the girls to do the same thing as the blokes. Mind you, it's such a privilege to be able to surf for a living regardless, so maybe it's a first-world storm in a teacup.
I imagine that the crowd at Pipe is pretty hostile for anyone trying to prove themselves out there. Gotta suck it up and push through if you want to succeed I reckon. Chances are you're gonna take a lot of beatings along the way as well. Not a pleasant experience, but how many great achievements come easily?
If Bethany Hamilton can get there with only one arm then I reckon everyone else should just quit their whining and get in with it. She's a dead set Pipe legend as far as I'm concerned.
We have a Tatiana vs Moana Jones Wong heat coming up which should be a great story for the WSL commentary team to lean in to.
Yep some history there...
Except they make everything vanilla and won't talk about the fact that Ross Williams was pushing Tati in on the shoulder when she burned Moana. Haha and slaps on the beach don't fit in with their narrative
geez - all you guys need a reality check.
- it has taken men decades of competition at pipeline for the competition skill level to get to where it is today. I bet the first ever mens comp at pipe was pretty shit too.
- the conditions where shit. it was head high and closing out. thats why the scores were low.
- the reason the women don't get to train at pipe is a thing called COVID has made travel kinda hard lately.
- plus the line up is completely dominated by the men who have been surfing it for a generation.
- the mens day one was way over hyped. the waves were amazing, but really, only a handful of guys got excellent scores. there was plenty of 2s from dudes. Morgan Cibilic exited the competition with a 1.83 total. Ivan Florence scored a total of 0.23 in his round 1.
this whole "girls suck at surfing" type commentary is just brainless. to my mind - it was historic - it should be fully encouraged, supported and celebrated - because one day soon we will see the women sending 10s at backdoor and more women getting into surfing at a young age.
1, The girls didn't arrive on the scene yesterday, they too have had quite a few years under their bikinis
2. Agreed, WSL should never have sent them out.
3. COVID hasn't prevented Robbo from escaping the hermit kingdom and living over there.
4. True but no pain no gain. Want to be the best got to wear it like the best of them the best surfers aren't just beach break rippers.
5. Morg's was a dud.
No it is not 'Girls Suck' it is people getting the same money for doing less no matter what gender. The WSL were completely disrespectful in not letting them show how good they are in the real stuff. Put up of take less pay pretty simple.
Getting the same money for less???? what are you talking about? Billabong is the sponsor of this event - last time i checked women are making more money for billabong than men.
Ahh.....you missed the point....prize money based on performance no earning coin for you massa.
if you think pro surfing would exist without the sponsors selling their products - then i reckon you missed the point.
Hey Drew, where did you get your information from RE men's vs women's earning power for Billabong? Would you care to elaborate?
Seriously? Is it unreasonable to expect that a pro surfer can pull in and make it out of a tube on a 4ft wave? There were some pretty absent skills from more than one seasoned pro - which is unacceptable at that level. A 16 year old local made Lakey Peterson and Caroline Marks look very ordinary. No doubt the performance level will rise - but that was pretty terrible viewing.
I agree with Drew. Surfing was a sexist sport for decades (it still is in my opinion). It means that the men that you see today surfing pipe stand on the shoulders of many, many giants. The women don't have the privilege of that legacy. They are not in that "story". That's what sexism looks like.
The woman out there yesterday are forging a path for the next generation. A path that wasn't there for them.
Some of the comments sound to me as trying to say "I told you women were never going to be as good as the men and this comp proves it."
Equality can be a double edged sword.
Same money - same danger.
Be careful what you wish for.....
Personally I really loved watching the girls today. I thought it was a great day of competition.
I don't think womens surfing should be a blood sport. If women want heavy pipe , they want it (the challenge of larger pipe)
Surely the comp venue should reflect it's selection for the skill level of the majority of athletes entering (womens surfing). Sending inexperienced athletes to the wolves is not helping women get confidence, or grow womens surfing in heavier waves. If the few women who like larger heavier conditions want to push the sport , give them a window of opportunity like we have seen. Give them some waves at your local.
Women surf the way women surf and men surf the way men surf. I don't expect them to perform like men. But surf like women want. Heavy pipe takes lives most years. Negligence of abilities could cost one. Pipes A grade for a reason at size just like other heavy spots. Women who don't have access to heavier conditions regularly will struggle there just as men do.
Agree. But then they shouldnt be paid the same as men.
Same as tennis - Paying a woman the same money for 3 sets as opposed for 5 sets in the men is discrimination 101.
There’s no real argument that girls don’t like heavier waves. Just because some of the women’s CT haven’t pursued heavier waves doesn’t exclude women from charging.
There’s more than enough big name and underground women chargers to throw out the patronising trope that girls only like giggling in two foot waves.
As pro surfers - which is a gender neutral job title - these athletes need to raise their performance levels to justify their celebrity and pay packet.
totally agree blow in its a tough one when celebrity and pay packets don't cover the broader spectrum of surfing eg big wave surfers performance compared to everyday skill set. could reduce pay packets and make better trophies. i was looking at skill set rather than money return in regards to surfing but I guess it's business these days like always at the top end. My ideas are un workable.
What about music album track lengths ;) work wages and progression. a life don't come for free. or i could say mens tennis is more even in competition ability range of athletes.
You dont sell TV rights and advertising in the middle of a song. The song is paid directly for by the consumer
Curious that no-one's taken the Italo approach to acclimatising to pipe (enlisting the likes of JoB to show the ropes/run block/etc).
Most would have done something similar you'd expect; Tati has Ross Williams blocking for her and showing where to sit etc; Isabella was saying in her post-heat interview that she's enlisted Myles Padaca to get ready for Pipe and Sunset
Yep, most have enlisted local "coaches/blockers/guides"
There you go. Didn't seem to have the desired effect, for the most part?
Perhaps we'll see when (if?) they get a crack at some proper pipe.
BTW, does anyone else find the whole paying someone to block for you thing a bit poor?
just adds to the mess of crowded unruly surfs. They don't get a look in otherwise at some locations. Unless they can hold their own. Dog eat dog world regardless of sex.
I have to say I can understand the need for the blockers, but I still think it's pretty poor. If you're a professional athlete I imagine you need to invest in your skill set.
Imagine if they start employing blockers at Bells or Margarets in the lead-up to the comp. The crew wouldn't have a bar of it. I'd understand a dedicated warm up session in the week prior to competition, say for a morning or arvo, but surely its a case of doing the time to gain the understanding and the respect, just like anything else.
Simple solution, in hindsight, they should have sent the gals out yesterday. Anyone alive at the end of the day wins.
Id pay for that !
plenty of gullible consumers out there but I hear what you are saying. No free tickets at pipe for outsiders, too much ego, money, talent,local pride and crowd. many A grade waves have become this. Pipes one of the pinnacles.
I don’t think the WSL cares too much about the opening 2 rounds which are predominately non-elimination. They have a bit of a tradition of running these 2 rounds in whatever is there conditions. They tend to be more fussy with the later rounds. Hopefully, the women will now get some good Pipe and by finals time we’ll all have forgotten about the opening rounds, like usual.
So you want your women to be more like men? I'm not in with that
in what way?
The girls don’t need to get set waves at Pipe to get comfortable in heavy left reef breaks. Jack Robinson was made ready for the challenge of Pipe before he’d left WA.
I bet there’s not too much competition for a chick who wanted to chase set waves at Arica. That’d give you a good base to take on pipe with confidence.
My word. I taught a course over there in 2017 and saw it at 8-10 feet, with El Buey at least 12ft and more likely 15ft. No way were any of us tempted to have a go at it. But I reckon Pelecho and the boys would give anyone who was serious a proper go at it if they were respectful.
Well my understanding is that the women wanted to be treated the same as the men and fair enough, but as Tyler said its a sausage fest out at pipe to train at...well im sure there are a lot of waves around that resemble pipe in one form or another that are less crowded to train at and some of those are in aus let alone Fiji etc..........WSL will have to put them to the test at some stage in solid surf and im sure some of them are ready for it...just feel for the ones that aren't.
I wish I could disagree with this article as women surfing is progressing so rapidly at the moment, but I'll have to agree it was a pretty dismal performance from most.
I've never surfed pipe , but today looked entirely manageable from a fear level. [Yesterday was life and death stuff compared to today.]
Seems most are just really struggling to push past the fear of surfing heavy waves over reef [like some of the men do] To be honest I don't blame them as surfing heavy waves over shallow reef is about as intense and intimidating as surfing gets. Unless you grew up surfing reefs in general, there is a tendency to be a bit more fearful when surfing them. [With good reason]
I lived at Deewhy point for a year when I was younger and I saw heaps of people who could surf quite well, that NEVER surfed the Point. Even though the end section of Deewhy is pretty tame and goes into deep water. Actually a good place to get used to surfing over reef, rocks.
Look at people like Mason Ho and his rock/reef antics. He can do that stuff because [apart from being a bit out there] he grew up surfing reefs and it's second nature.
I've surfed and seen waves breaking over sand just as heavy as any reef, but it's just so much less intimidating than the same wave over uneven reef/rocks.
The only way those women who were held back by fear can progress is to get more experience surfing heavy waves over reef. [just like the guys who struggled in that area did/do] I also don't think you need to be out at pipeline for that sort of training, as the world is full of nasty and scary waves to practice at. The key ingredient is facing your fears and gaining experience surfing heavy waves over shallow reef/rocks
Overlapping heats
They and Them
Done
That’s a great idea.
X2. Great idea.
But- scoring will be a whole new can of worms I reckon.
All the more reason :)
Girls are different and maybe throwing themselves over the handle bars at Pipe isn't really their cup of tea (plenty still will I'm sure) but they had heaps of fun at haleiwa. That's fine with me
Jusy to clarify: there's no "girls suck at surfing" message in my article, not expressly stated nor implied.
The Mens Pipe Masters started in 1971- prize money was 500 bucks.
Hakman won, and over the next few years it was a calvacade of Pipe aficionados who won, notably Gerry Lopez and Rory Russel.
So the men served a long apprenticeship under apprenticeship wages.
Now we have a Women's Event here where most of the field have not served an apprenticeship and will be on full pay.
That's an anomaly in Global Sport and any other professional activity.
Which creates a decision for the people covering the event.
Pipe is an incredibly simple equation. As Dorian said : you need to take off steep and deep and you need to get barrelled and come out.
My coverage will be based on this simple equation and the fact that these athletes are on full pay.
Caroline Marks got 9000USD for an hours work this morning.
The World does not owe anyone $9000 to go surfing for an hour unless they are exceptionally talented and competent at it.
So, I'll be writing about them as if they are fully paid up professional athletes, not frail gals who need my encouragement or support.
Maybe today was just an artefact of poor conditions, as Stu has suggested above.
In which case, if they swing and go and get tubed off their head when it's proper Pipe I'll have great delight in reporting that.
Rochelle Ballard said something that resonated with me today.
She said "you've got to want it, it has to be a passionate pursuit" or words to that effect.
So money is not going to get the job done here, the motivation now and in the future will have to come from a deeper place.
Steve I still don't get your point. The issue is that, in your opinion, women get paid too much for their skill level at this event?
$9000 grand is a pretty good deal for anyone for hrs work. look forward to your reporting of future outcomes.
Commentators can pump it up to the outer limits of the universe but todays surfing with
the women was a embarrassment to professional surfing. I cant believe they pay them.
Except for 2or3 they surfed awkwardly, slow with no rhythm, dodging barrels and just
looked like they didnt belong in those waves in fact most of them looked looked like
complete amateurs. Pathetic JOKE and theyre going to Tahiti.
A wave like Pipe is going to really show the difference between the guys and the gals,that's because it's the closest wave on tour,along with Chopes when it starts getting solid,that could be compared to a contact sport.
Imagine a female team from the national woman's rugby league taking on a blokes team from the NRL.
When it comes to Pipe,that's the comparison i reckon.
Or a further comparison.
Steve Smith at the crease with a tennis racket.
Good wrap again FR. I reckon the WSL did the girls a major dis service throwing them out in that non Pipe surf today. The girls will go. They're all willing. As evidenced by Courtney's wave in the last heat. It was a closeout bomb but she swung under it, free fell and pulled into a closeout. Coulda got hurt pretty bad. The rest of the day though, i know for sure i'd be struggling to find a wave out there in those conditions. Thought the girls did the best they could with what they were offered. Like mentioned above, it looks to be more dangerous at that size without a defined peak.
At least only 2 of the girls are gonna dip out on some proper Pipe coming up because i think they all deserve the chance to show what they're made of before we write them off for something that was beyond their control. It's gonna take time. We're in a blessed generation that we can actually watch the evolution of women's surfing at Pipeline and other heavy water locations. Enjoy it for what it is!! :-)
after watching the first day and seeing how un prepared most of the new guys and girls are I cant wait to see what happens in Indo when they all pile on the fast boat three days before competition and its a proper 8 ft G Land and not hitting speedies perfect . I hope they take plenty of Betadine
I thought the new guys looked ultra confident out there. Tudela ruled, Baker nearly squeaked out of wave of the day, J Lawler charged harder than nearly anyone, Callum Robson pulled into the biggest ugliest thing in his first wave on the CT and Chianca was styling through pit after pit
They'll surf Moneytrees instead.
It's way more consistent than Speedies and allows a lot more turns and still some pretty decent barrel sections.
I think the girls will show their talents there more than at Pipe.
Especially since the biggest days will go to the guys,so it's pretty much guaranteed the girls will get 4-6 foot moneytrees,since on just about any given day at G land in season,the surf will be in that range on that section between the peak in the swells.
Very thought provoking freeride76. Great stuff.
But I simply ask how but how did today look remotely contestable before they got under way.
Also just quickly. I feel minimum age for participation at the top level is a point worth serious consideration and discussion if CT surfers including wild cards are expected to roll with, like, 6 to 10 foot pipe.
Today wasn't a knock on the women IMO moreso the organisers.
How are they supposed to perform in what were basically 4ft closeouts with the odd corner? That size is shit for Pipe and slightly less so for Backdoor.
Forecast looks like there's a lot of good days coming so wait for a clean 6ft+ day and give em a proper canvas to perform on.
I reckon as a collective that's what they'd want and If they can't handle that then, yeah, it's a waste of time.
I've got a feeling if the women can't put on a good enough spectacle,or worse if any of them get hurt,then next year the contest will get swapped back to the one that was at Maui.
I'm pretty sure none of them would complain about that either.
The only female i can think of that would thrive on the challenge of big solid Pipe isn't in the event.
That's Kealla Kennelly.
@Mug of sunshine:
Pretty sure its they and they these days.
Just to be woke :-(
I gave it my best shot
Has anyone sat down with the Womens tour as a whole and actually asked. Ok, who is willing to surf this joint at 6-8 foot plus? Might give some insight as to how to proceed. If it’s maxing only a f$&ckwit would be critical of anyone with reservations. It’s pretty obvious hesitancy isn’t going to work in your favour in a heat.
The equal pay for ‘just as much risk or performance’ is laughable and translates to how many sports? Not many
The women,s tour have been crying about lack of opportunity to compete at the best spots for years. I,d agree that sending them out at maxing pipe may not be the best idea for the female competitors (and the viewing audience watching donuts and perfect empty waves getting wasted) but today was about as small as it is possible to surf there and the performance by most of the "world best" was very well below par, one real tuberide all morning.
As they say on the North Shore "Talk is cheap brah"
So far, the proof is in the pudding I guess. Day 1 had its fair share of the mens tour list at sea with plenty of gems slipping through to the keeper..
Seems like borderline pipe conditions are more difficult to find a score than when it starts getting solid, regardless of gender. But I wonder who or what percentage of the womens tour have really been pushing for pipe, chopes, cloudbreak etc.
Meh, I enjoy the idiosyncrasies of both competitions but I don’t think the prize money of women should in any way reflect how much they can surf like the men
The women have already had events at cloudbreak and did pretty good there in comparison.
Cloudbreak at 6 foot isn't as intense as Pipe or Chopes at that size as it's not as slabby on the take off.
I think 8 foot and over is when there starts getting next level intense.
But that'd be when they put the guys out in it and the girls would get the smaller days,which is what happens at most events year in year out anyway.
Sans a wave here or there from Moana and Bethany pulling into a close out, the Wahine team at the Backdoor shootout really appeared to struggle with Pipe also. They were people who know and ‘want’ Pipe.
Edit: with that being said I reckon there’ll be some really good performances given some good opportunity. Hopefully the women get a nice clean peaky 6 foot day
Apologies if this has been raised already but what happens if the women were sent out yesterday and didn’t catch a wave?
Where do they go from there?
I didn’t watch any today so I can’t comment on it but by the comments on here it sounds like the ladies were terrible.
Yesterday was incredible and I would be very very surprised if anyone apart from Hamilton and Wong paddled for a set.
How’s Tyler Wrights attitude in that interview! Fuck she’s irritating
And she won the final there last year.
She won't be winning it this year if that's her mindset.
Stay strong ladies!!!
So much punching down and self-righteousness, why not just enjoy surfers pushing themselves and think about how a young woman looking to take a step in her own surfing around the world might engage with it... I enjoyed the watch today, of course a different experience than watching the men but certainly entertaining even if not always delivering the promise but let's see how they go down the track.
FR, the entertainment industry doesn't pay you for the time you're on stage, it also pays you for the time you work before you get on stage, so give the $$ critique a break unless you're planning on going the direct subscriber route for your substack rather than having your performance sponsored by a surf report site's eyeballs.
Can we get some women writing on their own Swellnet or don't you know any?
I reckon that's a great idea about some women contribution on swellnet. I'd love it if one of the current or former woman on tour wrote a reply to Steve's post
The chicks have been given heaps of chances in heavy waves on the tour and the performances have always been lame. They can tell us to get excited all they want but they don't surf heavy waves as well as men so watching them feels like you are not watching the highest level. They will keep ramming it down our throats, telling us we are sexist if we don't love it. Its been going on in the UK for chicks soccer for years and still they have no audience (other than when they fill a stadium with free tickets for kids and claim big success).
Unless somebody is holding your head in front of the screen and making you watch it, i don't understand your problem? Why not just switch it off, leave em to it and go surfing? How does the progression of women's surfing in heavy waves turn you into such a hater? Just don't look if you don't like it. "they don't surf heavy waves as well as men". So Moana Wong, Vahine Ferriera, Justine Dupont, Maya Gabeira, Tahlia Redgard, Bronte MacCaulay, Tayla Hannak...did you see Willow Hardy at 14 charging Mainbreak last year??.....I'm assuming they're not women? Give it a break. It's a slower evolution due to the way surfing has evolved with males dominating the sport, the culture and the breaks for a large part of it, in case you hadn't been paying any attention for the last 50 or so years.
At the risk of getting belted, all rookies men and women don't get waves at pipe immediately, you have to put the time in and get belted a lot. You have to come back again and again every season and work on it if you want to be a top pro. The ones you quote do, there are many on the CT who don't that is why they sent the women out when it was small conditions - to stop deaths. The bulk aren't up to it. It is similar to AFL women, a small number are good the bulk are shithouse, but try hard, and the result is it is a game of under 12's and difficult for watch most people to watch - and they don't get equal pay cause they don't deserve it. Not different just learner stuff.
For all the woman haters on here, and that's what you are, identifying women as lesser than men, weaker than men, can't surf waves as heavy as men or as well. I hope Tahjlia invites you to go surfing with her and suggest you take off deeper than her. See what sort of men you really are. ha!
Was thinking about her, wouldn’t it be amazing to see Tahlija at Pipe. Bring Bronte also.
Ha ... have also been thinking of Tahlija
Apart from seeing her at Pipe...give her a spot in the Eddie.
So what’s the answer then BD, don’t have women’s events at Pipe and Chopes and waves like it so these conversations don’t have to happen?
Or continue to have the heavy wave events and keep seeing the “best” women surfers in the world struggle to surf them?
Yeah there are plenty of women out there who charge and surf waves 99% of men wouldn’t touch (including me) but the vast majority of the women’s world tour are sub par in heavy waves.
That's a good question Goofy.
If you look at the names i listed above, 2 only just missed the cut for this years world tour, Macauley and Vahine, so that'd be two extra heavy water specialists in the mix, Dupont is a world longboard champ, has won QS shortboard events and is French womens national champ, so she could be in the mix if she chose, Moana is in the draw, we could add Bethany, who is also in there, and i'd imagine Willow Hardy is an up and comer for the WCT. Point being, give this movement time, it will naturally adjust. Women that struggle at Pipe/Chopes/G-land, as do some of the men, and in the past, that was many of the men, will naturally get bad results and lose their spot on the tour. The only thing that doesn't work in this equation is the lack of heavy water waves that are on the other tours for these women trying to get in that aren't given the opportunity to, hence only the best small wave surfers are generally getting through. Same with the men to a degree, but the men have the experience of being pushed by having to confront Pipe every year, hence they head over there and try to jag a few before the comp. I think the women will learn alot about that approach after this year, but still, the ones that don't want it, no dramas, up to them, but they'll probably fall off the tour with the way it's scheduled.
So yeah, i reckon let it sort itself out. It might not be as appealing to watch for a few years, but the cream will rise to the top. There may be injuries, but same for blokes. That's just what i reckon Goofy. What do you think?
I think there's a shit tonne of women that would be itching to be on the tour for those heavy water locations. Those names i selected came easily to me. I reckon you could dig a bit and you'd find there's women all over the world we don't know about throwing themselves over the ledge on waves most would have second thoughts on. Also i reckon there'll be a couple of surprise packets amongst the current competitors if the size ramps up a bit.
“ Point being, give this movement time, it will naturally adjust.”
Yeah that’s my opinion too.
And hopefully in the future the ladies get to a spot earlier and try to get to know the place a little better ( hard at pipe I realise ) or go somewhere similar to sharpen up.
Just as some guys have done.
Don’t forget to add Laura Enever to your list above. Seen some pics lately of her going hard at off the wall and outer reefs
Sweet. Until then, may as well enjoy watching the evolution.
Yeah there's plenty of slabs in Australia that i'm sure could benefit the women over here.
Of course! Laura! Felicity Palmateer. Both gifted surfers and willing to give it a nudge. There's actually alot when you stop and think about it.
Cheers Goofy.
I think she is great. Not everyone is a women hater just like you probably aren't a Man hater.
I think she is the prefect example of what it means to charge. Style? Questionable, Ability?? Also Questionable but she sure can charge. This is what the women's tour is lacking - Proper Charging. People using Bethany as an example - Charging, tick. Great to watch, entertaining.
Seems to me the Women's tour is more about technique and 4 turns to the beach, emphasizing that last turn!! Judges will love that - its the last thing in their mind before they put the score in etc etc. That is the past.
Parents and coaches will be watching this event and learning, We have seen the progression in Women's Air game in the last year or 2, the introduction of Pipe will do the same to the charging/tube riding component. It will be good to watch.
Yeah i should have been more specific but there is a small percentage of individual posters on here that definitely go out of their way to belittle the fairer sex. Not the crew that just have an open opinion on it. The ones that feel the need to put women back in their place. Fk that.
Have you seen the Tahitian girl surf, Vahine Ferriera. I reckon she ticks all the boxes for style and charging....she missed making the cut for this years tour by one measly heat!! Bugger.
She is ripping - spent most of her life in heavy waves, she'll be on tour in no time.
Will be interesting to see if some of the young female chargers can actually surf well enough on the QS to make the tour.
Not involving heavy water, but at the progressive end of the spectrum Sky Brown is looking pretty good for 13 years old:
The Girl that can bust airs and tube ride well will dominate.
Another woman who can't surf heavy waves.
&t=3sSo DO YOU know any women FR!?!????? I really don't know if sbsb is taking the piss but I can't help but laugh and imagine FR on the headland walking back to the car with his eyes at the ground because he refuses to acknowledge the existence of women.
I haven't watched the WSL live in a few years but now I will be tuning in everyday expecting every single heat to be in perfect and challenging surf.
Re. girls. Do wozzle have a stated aim or reasoning for moving the girls to pipe? I can guess, equal rights and all that, or was it just plain logistics and cost cutting or something?
I'd say the girls were screwed by whoever sent them out anyway
Male or Female. There are no excuses for pulling back in 4ft waves at this elite level. [Especially when we see plenty of examples of women charging big & heavy waves most of us wouldn't.]
Don't forget all the males who regularly get roasted for sub-par performances in heavy waves. Toledo has been berated more than most, and was even honest enough to admit he needs to step up his game in that area.
Just like Morg's performance or lack of it on the first day. Sat there like a frozen chook most of the heat. Going to need to step up his heavy wave game if he is to last on the current tour
He has a Heavy Wave Game no problems there but jeezus
'The Lie Down Sally Cibilic' moments have to stop
Its happened at Sunset - Rottnest and now perfect 6-10 ft Pipe
Some one Please put some Andy into this Blokes Head.
Unfortunately 95% of pro surfing is boring, large coral reef waves being the exception. With the women in pro surfing at a skill level marginally better than most local rippers around the country the only reason to watch is that it's surfing at least. I want to watch people doing things i can't do!
I think the massive improvement in girls surfing will continue to progress at places like Pipe and Teahpoo.
Its going to take time. I thought Tyler Wrights comments were valid. Nothing wrong with admitting bit of fear.
I also think as the field narrows, the cream of the women will be sent out in more challenging conditions.
Good on them, some will step up and some wont. Over time most will continue to improve.
"Hamilton went from breastfeeding a baby on the beach to spinning on a Second Reefer and packing a giant closeout. It was one of the single most mind-blowing sporting performances I've ever seen".
Thanks so much for calling this out Steve - I though exactly the same when I saw it. What you did not mention though, is that after the severe hold-down, Hamilton surfaced and waved away the jet ski, and paddled back out - with one arm! She makes even Kai Lenny look soft!
I don't think anyone here thinks badly of women, or don't want women surfing Pipe or Chopes. We all want to see Tahlia out there, and we all cheer on Bethany pulling into a massive closeout.
What grates is WSL screaming "Historical!", when a bunch of ill-prepared surfers show up and put on a piss poor performance.
I don't even have an issue with any surfer - man or woman - who honestly says that they're shit scared of Pipe and to not expect much of them. But I'd be even more impressed if they pull an Adriano and put in the very very hard work and end up Pipemaster and World Champ.
If you want to have respect as a surfer surfing Pipe on the world stage, then you'd better bloody respect the place and prepare properly.
Agreed, you have it in a nutshell.
There are exceptions, but they generally won't go on heavy waves. Unfortunately the girls that do want heavy water are for the most part specialists and don't do well in contests.
I'll always watch Steph, Carissa and Lakey in ripable small waves like lowers etc, but I'd rather watch almost any second/third tier male pro when waves get heavy.
Well said I.B.
IMO they have to give the girls a chance on one of the best days in the holding period, someone - Bethany? - will rise to the challenge - why isn't Keana Kenelly a wildcard?
I was lucky to see the opening of the men's - the 2nd wave of the mens by Owen W. - the skill and guts required to pull under the hood - incredible - I'd love to see a woman do that, coz someone will - not hear WSL commentator nonsense - that doesn't fit the vision.
Wow, just watched Owen's first wave, 7.17! Are they kidding! That's a 10!
To not even score excellent and at least 8.5. Crazy.
yeah i checked it again and no way they would give a ten first up in the morning but it was way north of a seven something.....maybe high eight or a nine........
Some good examples of women who charge listed above but none of them are in this event (nor likely to be either as they are not on the world tour at the moment ). Also of note this is the second pipeline event for the wsl women not the first , last years Maui comp was cancelled and they got a shot at Pipeline with similar results , had a year to work on their game knowing it was coming this year.
Layne Davey (wife of ex Tassie photog Shaun )was a regular at Pipeline for years
I remember watching sally Fitzgibbon winning at big cloudbreak with ruptured eardrum a few years ago. She was absolutely charging big barrels. Tried to find the video of it but no luck. I reckon the girls just need time to work out the pipe line up and then the performance will increase. Yesterday it looked tricky to find one that didn’t clamp. Personally I still find it entertaining to watch them surf it even with a few epic fails.
Even KS has to pay his dues and launch into some closeouts to get his time in the water
The Day 1 and Day 2 contrasts just highlight that surf quality is everything for the viewer. Day 2 was super slow.
Seeing the women out in future bigger days will be quite interesting, in part to see their fear at play and how they handle it. In a way they make it easier to imagine being there myself having a go that say a JJ does.
The Backdoor shoot out commentary style is sooooo much better. WSL, take note, commentary hype and energy is not the only way to do it, especially over a long viewing session where it starts to grate more and more. Nor does it make up for mediocre waves. Lower key, spaced and paced golf and tennis commentary approaches show the other option works well and can hold a huge audience for long periods.
My wife can't have Turpel at audible volume!
Yeah well said Frog.
As for the WSL commentary. Nothing i hate more than when someone is dropping into the wave of a lifetime...like Conner Oleary, but the commentator, like Chris Cote, is too busy finishing their vanilla WSL story and completely ignoring the live action. Especially if i'm only half watching and i miss the wave. Even worse when they watch the replays and can't pull out enough superlatives of what an amazing ride it was....yet ignored it when it happened. Backdoor shootout was the gold standard in comps and commentary. You think they'd pay attention.
Chris Cote is horrendous.
With apologies to the Evil Empire, History tells me that two entrants in the 1986 Billabong Pro refused to paddle out due to the overwhelming conditions.
In tennis both Agassi and Muster at some stage refused to enter major/slam tournaments because they didn't like the surface.
Maybe ,don't buy a ticket in a raffle you don't want to win.
You are right with that nicka , Gary Green and Bryce Ellis refused to paddle out after they moved the event to the Bay for some earlier rounds effectively ending both of their careers as pro surfers while launching RCJ career as he did paddle out (first time at Waimea) and went nuts , MR at his peak charged Waimea and then won the event at sunset beach the following day . Check out Billabongs " Surf into Summer" available on youtube epic footage of the event and still one of the best ever surf movies IMO.
"If you want to dance you gotta pay the band"
A little more background - WSL equal pay was announced in September 2018.
https://www.swellnet.com/news/swellnet-dispatch/2018/09/06/wsl-announces...
One year later, in September 2019, California passed the Assembly Bill (AB) 467 into law, also known as “Equal Pay for Equal Play”.
(AB) 467 requires "equal sports prize money for both male and female participants in all sporting competitions held on state lands".
So equal sports prize money was going to happen for WSL events in California at least (unsure if this would apply to Hawaii though).
Can't quite make it out but is that Sally Fitz at 7.50 on the first day of competition dropping into a bit of a bomb??
Blue Diamond thanks for sharing this. It gave me shivers.
Man or woman, this IS surfing.
On the other hand, that footage of Sally Fitz out at pipe - is a good wave, but that crowd looks terrible. This is her warm up.
That's competition for you.
The focus of this thread is the commentators' "historic" comments. But that is his job. It may of looked easy but maybe it was super hard out there. We don't know unless we are out there ourselves.
Most of the girls in that comp are at pro level because they've earned it. There is a huge amount of talent and hard work otherwise anyone could do it. It doesn't mean they are to be the same as the men or otherwise they should be in the same heat.
The biggest sales (pre covid) in the surf industry was from teenage girls and groms. So for the sponsors that hold these comps having the pro surfer girls out there is making just as much money for their sales, as the mens. So therefore the prize money shouldn't be a problem to be equal. Also, it's the clothes, the hardware, the lifestyle that's driving sales, not always technical skill sets.
Yep!! Very well said Gonesurfing and i completely agree with all of your points. Thanks.
At least one person on the ground was unhappy with the Woz decision to send the girls out in sub-par conditions.
I was actually surprised the Woz showed that on their livestream. Maybe a few unhappy punters in the chambers of the Wozzle headquarters??
I wonder what would have taken place if the girls heats had been run today. Moana would have been comfortable, I wonder about the rest.
Seems the WSL hasn’t changed since the 90s
Would have loved to see the girls have a crack to today
Looked gnarlier but easier to make if you got the right line compared to yesterday
Well, the WSL have certainly give the crowd what they wanted for the Womens Finals!