2022 Election
Indo - can you pick 3 election promises / policies of your choice that is of importance to you and provide a comparison with an explanation of why your preferred choice / policy / party is better. Of interest in your preferred choice will be a policy or promise that is robustly (e.g. treasury) costed.
simple dot points will do.
I'm not trying to be a smart arse. Just curious on your reasoning.
Im not sure why you going off on some irrelevant tangent? but im no interested in going there with you.
Again my point is both LNP and Labor have policy that is generally realistic because it has to be because both the opposition and media will hammer them if it's not and one of them will get voted in and need to follow through to some degree on the policy promised.
All these other minor parties can spill whatever BS they like to get votes.
Nobody should be in argument about this, it's not a Labor v's Liberal thing or Liberal v's anyone else thing or left v's right thing.
Its just fact LNP and Labor policy needs to be realistic and one or the other will become reality to some degree.
All these other parties will not, just like my policy promises.
@indo to your point there’s a lot of fluff in there but unfortunately they all do it. Things got progressively worse with social media. It’s meme after meme after another meme. When will it be enough? One has more opportunity to do well in election through a smart meme design than a detailed policy proposal.
Indo
“ Nobody cares about all these smaller parties policy because everyone knows they will never get in power,”
Mate google balance of power, or crossbench.
Very hard for the little parties to get any representation due to our electoral system. Upper house maybe but lower house very difficult.
No worries indo. that's clear enough.
AndyM wrote:Indo
“ Nobody cares about all these smaller parties policy because everyone knows they will never get in power,”Mate google balance of power, or crossbench.
Yes they get to vote on things, so their policy give's you an idea of what the party are about and how they may vote, but they don't get to set the policy for the government.
Their policy might as well be called ideals rather than policy.
Anyway we sure don't need more Jaquie Lambies, Bob Katters, Deryn Hinch's ect but im afraid we will and now with these freedom parties and climate parties, fuck it could be nutter city in the Senate
indo-dreaming wrote:AndyM wrote:Indo
“ Nobody cares about all these smaller parties policy because everyone knows they will never get in power,”Mate google balance of power, or crossbench.
Yes they get to vote on things, so their policy give's you an idea of what the party are about and how they may vote, but they don't get to set the policy for the government.
Their policy might as well be called ideals rather than policy.
Anyway we sure don't need more Jaquie Lambies and Bob Katters, but im afraid we will.
A very likely scenario is Labor winning a majority and opposition is whatever LNP achieves + a whole bunch of independents who can't do anything. Labor doesn't really have huge independent challengers from what I can see. The one I'm aware of and am cheering for is Dai Le who's running against Kristina Keneally in Fowler. Reason being obvious discrimination and a desire for more representative parliament.
Indo - A vision is just as important as immediate policy. It is the epitome of leadership- present a concept of the future you desire in order to define the targets and goals required to achieve it.
The ALP and the LNP no longer possess an appealing vision for the future. Both are welded to the idea of a neoliberal future for Australia. This makes them fundamentally unsuitable for power.
Morrison attacks Albos shared equity scheme
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10774083/Australia-election-202...
Morrison promotes idea of shared equity scheme 2008
https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/unearthed-cli...
LNP went to the last two elections with “fully costed policies” and ended up with $440billion in debt (before the pandemic stimulus) so not sure how that is any endorsement
indo-dreaming wrote:it could be nutter city in the Senate
indo-dreaming wrote:AndyM wrote:Indo
“ Nobody cares about all these smaller parties policy because everyone knows they will never get in power,”Mate google balance of power, or crossbench.
Yes they get to vote on things, so their policy give's you an idea of what the party are about and how they may vote, but they don't get to set the policy for the government.
Their policy might as well be called ideals rather than policy.
Anyway we sure don't need more Jaquie Lambies, Bob Katters, Deryn Hinch's ect but im afraid we will and now with these freedom parties and climate parties, fuck it could be nutter city in the Senate
This post alone displays a complete lack of appreciation of independent politicians and the important role they play in Australian politics..
There really is no point debating.
Indo, here’s an article with a few examples of how independents, especially in a hung parliament, can influence policy.
Give it a go.
https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/what-happens-when-independents-ho...
Wiki Poll Booth
Tally Room : This site was recently upgraded to match the state of play. (Good idea!)
https://www.tallyroom.com.au/47648
AEC state either Party needs min 35% primary Vote or 70% Total
eg: Qld ALP won on 35.4% but 33% wouldn't come close to forming Govt.
So wotz the big deal then tbb...
2022 Polls show this could be an issue...hence the dude's very clever site upgrade.
Together Parties fall short or level out 12/36 Polls ( 33% chance of Hung Parliament )
Liberals - fall short of Governing 23/36 Polls ( 64% chance of hung Parliament)
Labor - fall short of Governing 11/36 Polls (30% chance of hung Parliament)
Aug 2021 > May 2022 Liberal 1x 40% Majority (vs) Labor 5x 40% Majority
Most interesting is Both Parties are narrowing their margin weekly by losing support.
eg: 41 > 40 > 39 > 38 > [ 37 (vs) 33 ] > [ 36 (vs) 34 ] We are headed for a Hung Parliament.
Liberal Vote has fallen too far for any late resurgence...scomo is going thru the motions.
Unless Albo can lift one more time...35% vs 34% hung Parliament is shaping as the default result.
For that matter any Vote Count must consider the same before any declaration.
Trump! Oops! Libs Oz Postal Ballot Review! + Russian (Oops!) Chinese Election Interference etc...
If Libs get this close we must consider recounts & Court Case in the mix!
Reason being > Polls allow 4% margin so under 40% is considered Hung Parliament.( Now = 37% tops)
This shows why no Pollsters are calling a Labor Victory after last fail...Labor need to hit 40%. (How?)
Labor last hit 41% in early March...those days are over > 39.5% end of March is also a dream!
Of interest is Labor seem to lift with Greens as one when a swing is on. (Enough times to notice!)
A clever campaigner would apply reverse psychology for joint Greens-Labor Policy on a Mask Clean Up!
Something so dirt cheap & wholesome would split 1% each & roll them over the 35% cut off line.
To be fair! Dutto could declare War on NZ or maybe Antarctica, settle on Tassie? Crew say WA...Ok.
Speaking of which...States
WA [Alp] > Vic [Alp] > NSW [Alp] > Qld [Lib] > ( SA [Lib] Sept 2021 Poll )
Qldurr tbb can only say that Qld ALP are better Bullies than our feeble LNP.
We luv Police State Dictators...more the better! Luv Daggy Dad breaking our balls'n'bits!
Sooner Oz comes to terms with that...well you know...We keep roaring Qldurr! Qldurr! Qldurr!
Preferred PM is Daggy Dad...Lovable Oaf tinkering about the Men's Sheds during the Campaign.
Scomo is over 45% (vs) Albo is sub 40% Promising not to burp, fart or bully!
PM is starting to clock up a run of +50% Dissatisfied Stickers (vs) Albo not got one of them yet!
Credit to Wiki Oz Poll site...Very good & Up to date!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2022_Australian_fe...
AndyM wrote:Indo, here’s an article with a few examples of how independents, especially in a hung parliament, can influence policy.
Give it a go.https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/what-happens-when-independents-ho...
What you think is good government and what i think is good government is two completely different things, like polar opposites, i don't want a country or government you want, i want a country and government like we have had for the last 30 years. (even if the Labor years weren't perfect they could still be much worse)
Wasn't the medivac bill introduced by independent Kerryn Phelps?
And got passed because of support from independents like Zali Steggall?
This is an example of how brain dead independents that shouldn't even be in politics can have very damaging long term effects on issues.
Luckily the bill was eventual repealed but much of the damage was already done causing all kinds of issues, that ironically the government then gets blamed for.
Now imagine many more of these fruitcakes and I'm not talking just on the left, many on the right are just as bad or even ones that appear fairly centred just people that shouldn't be having a say in how our country is run, but get voted in based on winning more of a popularity contest type thing.
A labor government with a lot of these nutters could be a disaster, just a whole heap of amateurs running(ruining) the country.
IMHO in a few years from now we will all look back on the last 30 years as a golden period in our history compared to what is coming, and IMHO many of you will regret the change you want now, but hey the grass is always greener.
indo-dreaming wrote:AndyM wrote:Indo, here’s an article with a few examples of how independents, especially in a hung parliament, can influence policy.
Give it a go.https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/what-happens-when-independents-ho...
What you think is good government and what i think is good government is two completely different things, like polar opposites, i don't want a country or government you want, i want a country and government like we have had for the last 30 years. (even if the Labor years weren't perfect they could still be much worse)
Wasn't the medivac bill introduced by independent Kerryn Phelps?
And got passed because of support from independents like Zali Steggall?
This is an example of how brain dead independents that shouldn't even be in politics can have very damaging long term effects on issues.
Luckily the bill was eventual repealed but much of the damage was already done causing all kinds of issues, that ironically the government then gets blamed for.
Now imagine many more of these fruitcakes and I'm not talking just on the left, many on the right are just as bad or even ones that appear fairly centred just people that shouldn't be having a say in how our country is run, but get voted in based on winning more of a popularity contest type thing.
A labor government with a lot of these nutters could be a disaster, just a whole heap of amateurs running(ruining) the country.
IMHO in a few years from now we will all look back on the last 30 years as a golden period in our history compared to what is coming, and IMHO many of you will regret the change you want now, but hey the grass is always greener.
The Gillard minority Government proves the above post to be wilfully ignorant and devoid of hard facts…… just another IMHO.
BS Soggy dog, I've given a clear example of how these minor parties especially independents can be dangerous, they basically become swing votes and often end up holding way too much power we have already seen it with Kerryn Phelps, Zali Steggall, Bob Katter, Deryn Hinch, Jaquie Lambie all complete nutcases that should never be in politics.
And with the way is shaping up with both left and right voters in his whole vote the majors last thing, imagine the nutters that might get in...it's down right scary.
indo-dreaming wrote:BS Soggy dog, I've given a clear example of how these minor parties especially independents can be dangerous, they basically become swing votes and often end up holding way too much power we have already seen it with Kerryn Phelps, Zali Steggall, Bob Katter, Deryn Hinch, Jaquie Lambie all complete nutcases that should never be in politics.
And with the way is shaping up with both left and right voters in his whole vote the majors last thing, imagine the nutters that might get in...it's down right scary.
Haha, I think it's legit to be concerned however, I don't think it will happen. Labor will win the election. Their seats are safe and they are not in danger from independents from what I can see so far. Major independent change might happen in liberal seats. The end result is likely a strong Labor government with weak and fractured opposition. I struggle to see how will independents achieve anything of significance in this scenario.
"i want a country and government like we have had for the last 30 years"
Well you can't have it because these politicians you admire, through their greed and incompetence, have fucked it.
Maybe post-early 90s recession there was a brief period that was positive but after that it was a steady downhill slide as the LNP and, to a slightly lesser extent Labor, focussed on siphoning money from the bottom end of society to the top.
Thrown into the mix is the fact that liberal democracies seem to work ok in the good times, but when things start to get shaky, the individualism of liberalism works against civil discourse.
So now we have a country with booming wealth disparity and we can't even find the common ground to begin to discuss it.
In other words Indo, you'd best consider "new" ways to encourage constructive dialogue and representative democracy because the Australia you knew is gone.
Dr Kerry Phelps and Stali Steggall, dangerous radicals, who would have thought.
Fancy trying to uphold standards of human dignity and compassion, please...please Jesus...save us all from the horror of that idea
By the way, the Medevac Bill is " a law that was passed by the Australian Government providing critically sick refugees and people seeking asylum held in offshore detention a pathway to be transferred to Australia for urgent medical treatment."
Fuck Indo, you sure you don't have sociopathic tendencies??
AndyM wrote:By the way, the Medevac Bill is " a law that was passed by the Australian Government providing critically sick refugees and people seeking asylum held in offshore detention a pathway to be transferred to Australia for urgent medical treatment."
Fuck Indo, you sure you don't have sociopathic tendencies??
Complete garbage, Mediscam was only used as a way to get refugees to Australia nothing more, the facilities on Nauru, South Pacific & PNG were fine for 99.99999% of people and the other 0.0000001% were still able to be flown elsewhere i believe Singapore was used in the past that is among the best doctors and facilities in the world..
Anyone that still believes otherwise is completely naive.
Most of those that used(abused) the system to get here were suddenly better once here he whole thing was a complete scam.
Any proof of those allegations?
Mate the Royal Australasian College of Physicians welcomed the bill and there was worldwide condemnation when the bill was repealed, including from the BBC and Al Jazeera.
This wasn't some radical backdoor method to smuggle asylum seekers into the country, it was a way by which sick asylum seekers could receive help by means of a medical assessment by two doctors that was reviewed by an independent health advice panel.
The problem had been that the minister for immigration was refusing medical treatment for political reasons, and after the passing of the Medevac Bill courts routinely ordered the minister to transfer people for urgent medical treatment to fulfil Australia’s duty of care to people in offshore places.
Do you realise that 17 died in detention, mainly due to suicide, and of those who returned to their home country, 33 have been reported dead?
So You think the burden of providing humanitarian aid to people that Australia has put in immigration detention centres should be outsourced to other countries instead of being the responsible party.
Is that where you are coming from?
Apparently so.
indo-dreaming wrote:BS Soggy dog, I've given a clear example of how these minor parties especially independents can be dangerous, they basically become swing votes and often end up holding way too much power we have already seen it with Kerryn Phelps, Zali Steggall, Bob Katter, Deryn Hinch, Jaquie Lambie all complete nutcases that should never be in politics.
And with the way is shaping up with both left and right voters in his whole vote the majors last thing, imagine the nutters that might get in...it's down right scary.
"...these minor parties .... can be dangerous..." and "...often end up holding way too much power..."
You mean like the National Party who with around 5% of the vote get the Deputy PM and several cabinet ministers and who:
- regularly go rogue with their own side;
- extract billions of AUD in pork barrelling e.g dams without a cost benefit analysis;
- have fucked the Murray-Darling water plan for 2 decades;
- has held the country to ransom over climate change and energy policy;
- sold its soul to the coal industry for decades; and
- has a leader who loves nothing better than to get on the beers and chase any skirt that moves.
Fuck yeah @info I know what you mean!
A VOTE FOR THE LIBERALS IS A VOTE FOR THE NATIONALS AND BARNYARD JOYCE
GuySmiley wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:BS Soggy dog, I've given a clear example of how these minor parties especially independents can be dangerous, they basically become swing votes and often end up holding way too much power we have already seen it with Kerryn Phelps, Zali Steggall, Bob Katter, Deryn Hinch, Jaquie Lambie all complete nutcases that should never be in politics.
And with the way is shaping up with both left and right voters in his whole vote the majors last thing, imagine the nutters that might get in...it's down right scary.
"...these minor parties .... can be dangerous..." and "...often end up holding way too much power..."
You mean like the National Party who with around 5% of the vote get the Deputy PM and several cabinet ministers and who:
- regularly go rogue with their own side;
- extract billions of AUD in pork barrelling e.g dams without a cost benefit analysis;
- have fucked the Murray-Darling water plan for 2 decades;
- has held the country to ransom over climate change and energy policy;
- sold its soul to the coal industry for decades; and
- has a leader who loves nothing better than to get on the beers and chase any skirt that moves.Fuck yeah @info I know what you mean!
A VOTE FOR THE LIBERALS IS A VOTE FOR THE NATIONALS AND BARNYARD JOYCE
I can’t understand how anyone can vote for the SMP with its current line up of oxygen thieves . It’s going to take the LNP at least a decade to rebuild themselves from the bottom up . There won’t be many hanging around after the election, a chartered plane to Bulgaria is on the cards.
soggydog wrote:So You think the burden of providing humanitarian aid to people that Australia has put in immigration detention centres should be outsourced to other countries instead of being the responsible party.
Is that where you are coming from?
Care when actually needed should be given in the countries they are in PNG or Nauru.
Occasionally Nauru wouldn't have some facilities or Doctors needed in which case they would go to somewhere like Fiji or PNG.
Of course if Krudd hadn't trialed an open border policy they wouldn't even be there.
BTW. Even if you want to be naive and believe they really did need treatment why didn't hey return to Manus or Nauru?
Anyway pointless discussion because you guys are completely ignorant.
Supafreak wrote:GuySmiley wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:BS Soggy dog, I've given a clear example of how these minor parties especially independents can be dangerous, they basically become swing votes and often end up holding way too much power we have already seen it with Kerryn Phelps, Zali Steggall, Bob Katter, Deryn Hinch, Jaquie Lambie all complete nutcases that should never be in politics.
And with the way is shaping up with both left and right voters in his whole vote the majors last thing, imagine the nutters that might get in...it's down right scary.
"...these minor parties .... can be dangerous..." and "...often end up holding way too much power..."
You mean like the National Party who with around 5% of the vote get the Deputy PM and several cabinet ministers and who:
- regularly go rogue with their own side;
- extract billions of AUD in pork barrelling e.g dams without a cost benefit analysis;
- have fucked the Murray-Darling water plan for 2 decades;
- has held the country to ransom over climate change and energy policy;
- sold its soul to the coal industry for decades; and
- has a leader who loves nothing better than to get on the beers and chase any skirt that moves.Fuck yeah @info I know what you mean!
A VOTE FOR THE LIBERALS IS A VOTE FOR THE NATIONALS AND BARNYARD JOYCE
I can’t understand anyone voting for SMP with its current line up of oxygen thieves . It’s going to take the LNP at least a decade to rebuild themselves from the bottom up . There won’t be many hanging around after the election, a chartered plane to Bulgaria is on the cards.
You're dreaming mate Labor will last max two terms,(hopefully one) interest rates are going up, and life is only going to get harder under Labor and more woke, let's not forget last time people were so over Labor they voted in Abbott.
Time will tell indo , time will tell.
indo-dreaming wrote:Supafreak wrote:GuySmiley wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:BS Soggy dog, I've given a clear example of how these minor parties especially independents can be dangerous, they basically become swing votes and often end up holding way too much power we have already seen it with Kerryn Phelps, Zali Steggall, Bob Katter, Deryn Hinch, Jaquie Lambie all complete nutcases that should never be in politics.
And with the way is shaping up with both left and right voters in his whole vote the majors last thing, imagine the nutters that might get in...it's down right scary.
"...these minor parties .... can be dangerous..." and "...often end up holding way too much power..."
You mean like the National Party who with around 5% of the vote get the Deputy PM and several cabinet ministers and who:
- regularly go rogue with their own side;
- extract billions of AUD in pork barrelling e.g dams without a cost benefit analysis;
- have fucked the Murray-Darling water plan for 2 decades;
- has held the country to ransom over climate change and energy policy;
- sold its soul to the coal industry for decades; and
- has a leader who loves nothing better than to get on the beers and chase any skirt that moves.Fuck yeah @info I know what you mean!
A VOTE FOR THE LIBERALS IS A VOTE FOR THE NATIONALS AND BARNYARD JOYCE
I can’t understand anyone voting for SMP with its current line up of oxygen thieves . It’s going to take the LNP at least a decade to rebuild themselves from the bottom up . There won’t be many hanging around after the election, a chartered plane to Bulgaria is on the cards.
You're dreaming mate Labor will last max two terms,(hopefully one) interest rates are going up, and life is only going to get harder under Labor and more woke, let's not forget last time people were so over Labor they voted in Abbott.
Labor aren’t in and interest rates are set to go up.
@info you have previously said/implied on many occasions you're comfortable with the unprecedented level of corruption attached to the Morrison govt so long as the economy is good.
suggest you do some good ole fashion resurching on Sri Lanka and how the corruption of the ruling families/govt as meant the economy is about to collapse. The country is in effect bankrupt.
Perhaps an extreme example but it shows where corruption can lead and why it should never be tolerated.
indo-dreaming][quote=soggydog wrote:So You think the burden of providing humanitarian aid to people that Australia has put in immigration detention centres should be outsourced to other countries instead of being the responsible party.
Is that where you are coming from?
Care when actually needed should be given in the countries they are in PNG or Nauru.
Occasionally Nauru wouldn't have some facilities or Doctors needed in which case they would go to somewhere like Fiji or PNG.
Of course if Krudd hadn't trialed an open border policy they wouldn't even be there.
BTW. Even if you want to be naive and believe they really did need treatment why didn't hey return to Manus or Nauru?
Anyway pointless discussion because you guys are completely ignorant.[/quote
So yes?
Fella with no morals, no ethics, no conscience.
Like i said pointless discussion, because you guys don't understand the wider world outside of your western bubbles.
You guys have decent excuse's because lack of exposure that brings understanding, but Andy should know better having an Indo partner.
It's really strange that there was a law required to give refugees medical assistance. Imagine being stuck in some remote location, in a concentration camp, for several years. Obviously, a concentration camp might have some basic medical staff but if you have some heavy, chronic disease there is no available assistance. Nazi Germany and Russian gulags would reward you with a bullet in the head - too much hassle. Australia luckily does not give you a bullet but it does make it complicated to the point where a matter needs to be debated and voted in a federal parliament.
Providing medical assistance to anyone (I'll repeat - anyone) in need should be a basic operational procedure, we have the infrastructure for it. It's embarrassing that we are paying federal MPs to spend time debating such issues.
Lying to cover his lie.
indo-dreaming wrote:Like i said pointless discussion, because you guys don't understand the wider world outside of your western bubbles.
You guys have decent excuse's because lack of exposure that brings understanding, but Andy should know better having an Indo partner.
Ha! Fuck your a tool. Lived overseas for years, friends from many cultures. Your just a right wing uneducated grifter livin’ on the tit. Lick my balls cunt!
PS my missus isn’t from Australia or do you have to have an Indonesian wife for your special club. Again, lick my balls you welfare cheating cunt.
Have YOU traveled to anywhere besides Indonesia and the East coast of Oz that gives you worldly insights beyond the rest of us.
Do ya reckon slomo might be a bit dirty that he didn’t call the election a bit earlier ?
The ALP gained 1% point on a two-party preferred basis during the week increasing its lead to 11% points:
— Roy Morgan (@RoyMorganAus) May 2, 2022
ALP 55.5% cf. L-NP 44.5%
Roy Morgan Poll conducted from April 25 – May 1, 2022.#auspol pic.twitter.com/ajkCNMeSnT
flollo wrote:It's really strange that there was a law required to give refugees medical assistance. Imagine being stuck in some remote location, in a concentration camp, for several years. Obviously, a concentration camp might have some basic medical staff but if you have some heavy, chronic disease there is no available assistance. Nazi Germany and Russian gulags would reward you with a bullet in the head - too much hassle. Australia luckily does not give you a bullet but it does make it complicated to the point where a matter needs to be debated and voted in a federal parliament.
Providing medical assistance to anyone (I'll repeat - anyone) in need should be a basic operational procedure, we have the infrastructure for it. It's embarrassing that we are paying federal MPs to spend time debating such issues.
flollo flollo flollo
Some of your post especially in the housing thread have been quite good very informative and well balanced, but my god this post is so ill informed.
Firstly nobody on Manus or Nauru is their against their will, all have other options including going home if safe to do so (wars end political situations change) Aus government even provides those that do with a resettlement package of about $30K AUD to help, they always have had the option of requesting transfer to a refugee camp, some have done deals with other countries and all turned down the offer of resettlement in Cambodia or PNG.
Yeah there was once a time about a decade ago where they were contained to centres on both PNG and Nauru, that ended long ago and every refugee on Manus and Nauru since has even had the right to live in the community, the majority on Nauru choose this option only a few on PNG did but all at the centre were free to come and go as they please. (on Nauru they could even apply for visas to visit other areas in the South Pacific)
They even had working rights, quite a few on Nauru worked, everything from life guard att the local pool to hair dressers, on Nauru a few even ran business mostly cafe and restaurant type things.
Obviously all these motivated people got priority resettlement in USA years ago.
So yeah really comparable to a concentration camp..
Anyway regarding the medical aspect Nauru has a hospital that Australia paid 55 million to upgrade as of 2018 it had 61 contracted health professionals, including 29 mental health professionals, most of which are there just to see refugees.
Manus was/is a similar deal, then PNG also has The Pacific international hospital in Port Moresby
The whole Medivac thing was a hoax, just another scam in an endless list by refugee advocates trying to get refugees to OZ, everyone now with the beauty of hindsight should now understand this, it's why none or very few returned to Nauru or Manus after so called treatment.
Ha ha someones triggered..
indo-dreaming wrote:Ha ha someones triggered..once a tosser always a tosser.
Yes, we know you are FreeMoney
Oh dear this one again...anyway your name suits you.
.