Australia - you're standing in it

Even Howard's debt reductions came mostly through selling our stuff:

"This means that around three-quarters of the pay-down of the $96 billion of government debt was simply from selling assets to the private sector........"

http://www.marketeconomics.com.au/2095-more-facts-behind-the-howard-gove...

The covid debt blowout across the world is the biggest economic own goal in history with wave after wave of consequences. Hindsight makes it clear but even in the thick of it the Libs could have avoided billions in waste and seen that the data was sufficient to prove massive lockdowns were unnecessary by mid 2020.

That was the time their supposed better economic and analytical skills should have been in play. A bit of analysis and some guts to buck the fear mantra was all that was needed.

Hate towards the LNP seems to be stronger than the interest in the current government and its policies. At what point will people stop talking about the LNP who are on a losing bench for a while now and start debating the policies, and decisions made by the current government?

Plenty of issues for Labour:

Inflation, house prices, rental crisis, increasing social division, energy policies that have gaping holes, sky high student debt (especially now with high inflation adjusted HECS), dispirited youth struggling to be optimistic about their future, massive national debt, immigration putting pressure on existing infrastructure, China, China China...

Few answers with much traction to any of the above

But we have the honeymoon phase persisting for a while and some other debates in the forefront.

If Labour smells of roses in 2 years time it will be an amazing effort.

From an ex-leader of the party.
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/lessons-for-dutton-play-on-t...

How the ghost of John Howard haunted the Aston byelection
The one true architect behind the Liberal Party's growing malaise is the man who poisoned the very soul of democracy in Australia. https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/04/04/john-howard-blame-aston-byelection-...

Supafreak wrote:

How the ghost of John Howard haunted the Aston byelection
The one true architect behind the Liberal Party's growing malaise is the man who poisoned the very soul of democracy in Australia. https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/04/04/john-howard-blame-aston-byelection-...

Bit harsh? Nope

"And it was Howard — that immortal “lying rodent” — whose penchant for political mendacity and lack of ethics on all manner of issues ultimately elevated lying and institution-trashing into a Coalition pastime, poisoning the very soul of Australian democracy in the process.
In this connection, no one of a certain vintage could easily forget Howard’s ability to swing an election through unconcealed appeals to racist resentment on asylum seekers, the scars of which linger on. Nor could anyone truly forget the egregious falsehoods festooned over the Iraq War and the suite of anti-terrorism measures that followed. And, still less, Howard’s climate scepticism, the irrational loathing he fomented against Indigenous Australians and his conflation of welfare with “dependency culture”, which so happened to coincide with the shameless introduction of profligate tax breaks and perks for middle- and upper-Australia.
It was under Howard, in other words, that the country and its attitudes hardened, becoming less equal, less free, less generous, meaner and more divided and corrupt than ever. But rather than put an end to these toxic political undercurrents and refashion a return to small-l liberal politics, the subsequent Abbott-Turnbull-Morrison governments readily embraced them, spreading the ghost of Howard thin over a landscape marked by vanishing futures, greed and bloodstained prisons."

Yep. War criminal.

https://m.

"To every single Australian who spent a lot of time carefully explaining to their friends, relatives and colleagues just how disgusting people like Alan Jones, Ray Hadley, Andrew Bolt, Rita Panahi and their sycophantic mates and cohort of similarly-minded deadshit fuckups are, THANK YOU."
I'd love to see a survey of how many voters these "deadshit fuckups" rolled from Liberal to Labour. I reckon the results would be staggering.

Wilhelm Scream wrote:

https://theshot.net.au/general-news/its-not-a-mystery-the-liberal-party-...

Haha, yet another satirical website delivering news more accurate than the msm... Geez when will Betoota, Shot
and Jordies be main stream... Not long me thinks .. ha.

Wilhelm Scream wrote:

https://theshot.net.au/general-news/its-not-a-mystery-the-liberal-party-...

Dave does have quite a few valid (bullet)points indeed. Cheers

Lovely.

C…… L ……………………………. LNP

C = historical centre of Australian politics
L = where Labor has landed since neoliberalism (a position previously held by the Liberal Party)
LNP = where the LNP has landed since Howard, neoliberalism and the departure of most moderates/ infiltration of the far right religious nutters

This is such a strange case , like for starters how the hell did this guy become a “ senior advisor “ to the LNP and who is funding all his court cases ? https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/afp-investigated-for-perverting-...

Wilhelm Scream wrote:

https://theshot.net.au/general-news/its-not-a-mystery-the-liberal-party-...

"And they were fucking awful to Victorians during the early pandemic period, creating yet another cohort of people that will never even consider voting for them"

Yes and yes.

I'll make a prediction: as One Nation is the only party that gets a >1% amount of the vote and features a distinct no immigration policy; as more Australians realise the affect this is having on their situation regarding housing/renting; that the One Nation vote will overtake the Liberal vote within 2 elections.

velocityjohnno wrote:

I'll make a prediction: as One Nation is the only party that gets a >1% amount of the vote and features a distinct no immigration policy; as more Australians realise the affect this is having on their situation regarding housing/renting; that the One Nation vote will overtake the Liberal vote within 2 elections.

If the LNP continues to drift even further to the far right under the influence of religious nutters and the FNQer good ole boy parliamentary members there will be little to distinguish them from Divided Nation(alists)

I reckon One Nation is actually more left than them, given their protectionist Industrial Policy and others. The race bit protects labour, very crudely - in fact this was an early policy of the nascent ALP at the turn of the last century.

velocityjohnno wrote:

I'll make a prediction: as One Nation is the only party that gets a >1% amount of the vote and features a distinct no immigration policy; as more Australians realise the affect this is having on their situation regarding housing/renting; that the One Nation vote will overtake the Liberal vote within 2 elections.

Hope those people have a look at Sustainable Australia's policy, which aims to "lower Australia's permanent immigration program from the current (post-2000, non-COVID) record of around 200,000 per annum back to a cap of 70,000 per annum, being Australia's average annual permanent intake level during the twentieth century"

Glad you mention them because that's the senate vote of choice in the last couple of elections - however, it amounts to nothing. So, the question one asks is "can I have a more effective vote to slow the immigration, and make it easier for my kids to obtain shelter/meaningful, rewarding work?"

There would be two ends to a ON vote: 1) they don't get enough of the vote, and preferences go to the Libs - that would be as bad as at present or worse given Dutton's demands for more immigration; and 2) they get enough to be elected into seats, and other lesser preferences head their way (or don't). In that case they can have more of a voice.

I'm thinking of the Hunter ON vote in the last federal election here, where a really big turnout (25%?) nearly rolled Joel Fitzgibbon. Cause was ALP split on coal which is a big earner there, ie affects people's way of life.

So does housing/shelter at present.

I'm also thinking that just like behind the Red Wall in England, a lot of Aus citizens are being left behind by current policy. Their (UK) angst Boris capitalised upon, (and then didn't deliver? Or did in terms of the industrial protection/buying important steelmakers/defence projects etc)

A surprise to nobody...
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/11/australias-richest-capt...

And the moral of the story is, don't vote for the LNP or Labor.

velocityjohnno wrote:

Glad you mention them because that's the senate vote of choice in the last couple of elections - however, it amounts to nothing. So, the question one asks is "can I have a more effective vote to slow the immigration, and make it easier for my kids to obtain shelter/meaningful, rewarding work?"

There would be two ends to a ON vote: 1) they don't get enough of the vote, and preferences go to the Libs - that would be as bad as at present or worse given Dutton's demands for more immigration; and 2) they get enough to be elected into seats, and other lesser preferences head their way (or don't). In that case they can have more of a voice.

Same here VJ, whether State or Federal, Sustainable Australia for the Upper House.

velocityjohnno wrote:

I'll make a prediction: as One Nation is the only party that gets a >1% amount of the vote and features a distinct no immigration policy; as more Australians realise the affect this is having on their situation regarding housing/renting; that the One Nation vote will overtake the Liberal vote within 2 elections.

Did you check the recent Finnish elections? Some similarities have occurred.

Cheers for that Flollo, I just did. Seems to have the same rural/urban divide as many countries, and it is the (what to call them?) more nationalist right party that is important in the new coalition.

OK a further picture, again from the MB guys: this one argues Australian renters are left behind, or 2nd class citizens, or serfs as the comments suggest, in their own country:

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2023/04/australian-renters-are-second-c...

Have a look at the disposable income/net worth/financial position charts; combine that with the lack of long term rental contracts creating uncertainty + large increase in numbers of people competing for rentals + resultant significant increases in price... My contention above would require nothing more than these people wake and then vote in their own interest...

@VJ Finns Party did really well in the recent elections. They are a nationalistic right party, euro sceptics and populists. There are some similarities to your statement about One Nation, chances are dissatisfied Aussies could turn to cheap nationalistic populism as solution to their problems. Everyone is blaming migration for many things as it is, it won’t take much to take the rhetoric to another level.

You talk about renters voting; migration is a major driver of rental demand but these tenants don’t have voting rights. Of course, these are not all the tenants but you can see how it’s easy to throw a dichotomy nationalistic bone to the masses? Aussie tenants vs migrant tenants?

The Finnish election result was interesting but not too sure how much we can read into it. While the Finn Party did get a +2.5% swing, the SDP (Sanna Marin) got a similar swing 2.2. The centre right were the biggest winners but they are wary of a coalition with the Finns. Looking at the results overall, it seems Finland are, like us, split along general ideological differences. I can’t see One Nation ever being more than fringe while they have representatives like Pauline, Roberts and Latham.

@blackers you're right. I don't see One Nation being competitive but that whole area is ripe for some new entrant to the political landscape. We don't really see many (or any) new entrants into politics which is pretty normal in Europe. But with LNP being shit and the rest full of lunatics you would think that someone new would surely stand out. I can see that scenario playing out.

flollo wrote:

@blackers you're right. I don't see One Nation being competitive but that whole area is ripe for some new entrant to the political landscape. We don't really see many (or any) new entrants into politics which is pretty normal in Europe. But with LNP being shit and the rest full of lunatics you would think that someone new would surely stand out. I can see that scenario playing out.

Maybe time for LNP coalition to dissolve. Have a new Small l liberal party, that actually start to practice what they preach. Conservative with respect to democratic institutions, respect freedom of choice,( decriminalisation of recreational drugs, acceptance of lifestyles etc). Support small Australian businesses, tax foreign corporations same as Australian citizens.
Have a discussion on what Australians want in as far as immigration figures.
Celebrate multi culturalism but still not bend over treating over vocal lobby groups differently, tax all religious institutions....
Anyway just an off the cuff rant....
Think definitely space for a party such as the old Democrats ...

Edit, and get rid of the right wing superstitious nuts IPA stooges and war mongers.

Nice thought andy. Not sure that it was what flollo was advocating, but a refreshed democrats or even a small-l libs would be better than the current shower in opposition. A wider spread of votes, more dilution of the 2 party structure may lead to more flexible coalition forming, like in Europe, ensuring more consultation and compromise, maybe better outcomes.
Further to my comments above, it's this sort of low level schtick that will leave Pauline forever screaming from the margins.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/deeply-disturbing-disability-group-c...

blackers wrote:

Nice thought andy. Not sure that it was what flollo was advocating, but a refreshed democrats or even a small-l libs would be better than the current shower in opposition. A wider spread of votes, more dilution of the 2 party structure may lead to more flexible coalition forming, like in Europe, ensuring more consultation and compromise, maybe better outcomes.
Further to my comments above, it's this sort of low level schtick that will leave Pauline forever screaming from the margins.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/deeply-disturbing-disability-group-c...

Pauline always has and no doubt always will be a vile individual....

Just a little Australia perspective from an NZ visitor:
Food is great, plentiful and half the price.
Things work (this includes roads).
People are friendly, and there's a can-do attitude and no moaning.
Service is good.

And your so-called mates run you over in the surf......

Bonus!

I feel so bloody bad about your finbox.

Island Bay wrote:

Just a little Australia perspective from an NZ visitor:
Food is great, plentiful and half the price.
Things work (this includes roads).
People are friendly, and there's a can-do attitude and no moaning.
Service is good.

Ha ha obviously didn't bump into any of the Swellnet whinge-fest crew.

My sister married a guy from NZ and after a few years moved there to start a family, but they only lasted a few years as even though they love the place and lifestyle they just found the cost of living expensive and wages lower and housing prices similar (but more expensive when take wages into consideration)

Id expect they might move back to retire one day though.

Everywhere has its pros and cons, but if you live in NZ or Aust you are pretty lucky and doing better than hundreds of millions who lucked out and were born in a developing third world country or just a shit hole like Russia.

Life's pretty good really we both live in peaceful developed countries, democratic countries, both good waves, even compared to other developed countries you dont get much better, i mean who would want to live in the USA best thing about the USA is you can drive to Mexico, Canada way too cold, UK would totally suck, most of Europe is cold or land locked, maybe the most attractive is France , Spain or Portugal

I agree, ID. And my post was meant as a positive view on Aus, more than a whinge about NZ.

Re NZ cost of living, it was cheap in the 00s, and pretty good much of the 10s, but the last 5 years it's gone bonkers.

There are definitely many positives. Another one worth mentioning is that there is always work. Anyone can find a job within days/weeks. It's not always a good-paying job, and it's not always in the desirable trade but there is always some work available. I struggled at times myself but got through with driving delivery trucks, working on building sites, retail...There was a time when I worked 4-5 different casual jobs 7 days a week to get through. I remember signing my first lease in Sydney for $460 pw and getting paid $660 pw after tax in my full-time warehouse job. So, I had to do other work after hours and on the weekends to make it work.

Although this sounds like hell it's way better than not having any options. I lived overseas as well and it was way harder than this. Other places are cheaper but they also struggle with high unemployment and getting regular work can feel like an impossible task. Cheaper means nothing if your income side is zero. I understand that many Aussies struggle with the cost of living, I'm not denying it. But I am highlighting the fact that we have a very small unemployment rate (compared to other countries) with one of the largest minimum wages on the planet (I believe Luxemburg is no 1 and we are no 2). That in itself is a big success.

You travelling thousands of km to get tangled up with a mate IB? :)

North Island?
South Island?
@IB?

Chalk and cheese?

Haha spill the beans Steve and IB. I want a full blow by blow.

Island Bay wrote:

Just a little Australia perspective from an NZ visitor:
Food is great, plentiful and half the price.
Things work (this includes roads).
People are friendly, and there's a can-do attitude and no moaning.
Service is good.

No moaning?!
Have you ever seen this little Australian website called Swellnet?

Look, my wife is in the UK and I thought the dog was dying, so I hardly slept thinking her little old dog is passing away in the night, what's app until all hrs. Checking every half and hr to make sure the dog is still breathing.

Got up in the moonlight and suited up, got my daughter in to cuddle up the dog- still alive.

I was wrecked, and rocked off way before sunrise.

Almost at the back button take-off and this mid-sizer comes in a little wider, I see a guy too deep and swing late on it...

I'm watching deep in my peripheral vision just to make sure this guy doesn't make the section and last milli-second I see a shape in front of me- too late to jump off.
Thud.

I come up and paddle up asking if he is OK.

And it's freaking IB.

I've run him over.

I thought it was a straight run to Ballina hospital with the force of the impact but luckily he was cut but not badly and I had my fin box ripped out.

If I had my time over, I would have not caught that wave in the half light without making sure no-one was in front of me.

I was sleep deprived and my judgement/reaction time wasn't a 100%.

I went back in and got another board, came back out, saw IB get a good one.

Classic!
Glad no one got hurt.
Yeah you looked like you had a bit on your mind the other day Steve.
Hope the young fella with the shoulder (?) was ok too.

Broken collarbone.
he'll be fine.

Haha oh dear, yeah luckily nothing too serious injury/outcome wise.

No, very lucky IB has such stout viking skin/bones.

Classic.

As is Steve roping in the poor dog to cop the blame.

From my perspective:
Rocked off cleanly and caught a smoker within 5 minutes, that hugged the bank past where the point starts bending out. Paddled back out with a big stupid grin, keeping just wide of the line of guys on the inside.

Bigger set rears up and I duck one, then see old mate paddling deep and another (Steve) wider and very keen. Thinking Mr Deep will go I tack wider, only to see Steve swinging, so I duck dive with all I've got, all fingers crossed.

Following Isaac Newton something must go up if the rest goes down, in this case my left leg, which got a bit of a knock, but didn't hurt. Sadly it was enough to knock Steve's finbox loose, and I felt like a right turkey for being in the way, but it was a tight situation and I did my best. Hopefully the local ding repair dude does his best too.

I tried steri strips and plasters, but the wound kept pissing blood, so off to Byron A&E. Within 30min I had three stitches thanks to the lovely Aminah, and walked out with no charge. Thank you!

And yes, Superior Viking DNA ftw :-)

Hope you both had leggies on! :)