Interesting stuff

Mention of Lawyers reminded me of this...Gold
http://forum.realsurf.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29963&p=668276&hili...

With regard to the seeming lack of youth political activism - "why is the rage of the young not directed at the economic conditions that see them locked out".

This is something I've wondered about for decades, wtf has happened?
Is it simply the result of hegemony?
Or is life just comfortable enough so that they don't want to complain?
Or what about the rise of what I call toxic positivity, where in certain social circles it's really quite uncool to express "negativity" about basically anything at all.

For those of us growing up in the 70s and 80s music and other culture was full of explicit examples of political statement.
I mean, just to start, the list of politically-charged Australian music from the 80s is endless.

Maybe part of the issue is wrapped up in the internet, social media, extreme libertarianism and the rise of narcissism?

The annual graduate outcomes survey outlines how uni grads fare in terms of employment and wages each year, and does comparisons to non-uni educated people: https://www.qilt.edu.au/qilt-surveys/graduate-employment.

I haven't read the latest but the 2019 survey (https://www.afr.com/policy/health-and-education/grads-earn-more-but-unis...) concluded that uni grads earn more and have lower unemployment.

The survey goes into some detail here and there.

"Or is life just comfortable enough so that they don't want to complain?"

Largely correct.

They don't see life in terms of economic issues, they see it in terms of identity issues.
Which is being relentlessly fed to them over social media by the Big Tech companies who profit the most from fragmented identity politics.

Lots of these kids too, aren't locked out. They are wealthy, sometimes very wealthy. They will inherit property.

The chief area of protest and concern for them is Cultural/identity, not economic.

Maybe that will come later.

Transphobia and the fact that the Oscars doesn't have 50% black people is more important to them then whether the Indian deliveroo rider or Iranian Uber driver is in insecure work.

They identify with the Big Tech companies who are responsible for these economic conditions.

They are willingly yoked to their oppressors.

Hard for a band to complain about 'the system' when in order to make a living they have to promote themselves on social media and sell their songs to Spotify or Apple Music, making them complicit players in said system.

Would look a tad hypocritical no matter how compelling their argument may be.

Then on the flip side there's apathy and defeatism.
John Mayer was on the money in waiting on the world to change (was that really 15 years ago?)

Yep, it was much better in the old days. There was a more cohesive vision where we all spoke with one voice, a straight white male voice.

silly passive-aggressive comment Wally.

Why not engage with the argument?

Agree pretty much with Stu's wife ,Adam 12 and gary1412, but its time on the tools that counts re getting a job in legal practice. Law is like any other trade and a graduate without any experience might as well go looking for the left handed screwdriver. The old indenture system where a student lawyer ) (apprentice) worked for 5 years for a master on low wages had merit.

Blowin for self evident "flogging a dead horse" reasons you're right I've never listened to people like that, never will, but please for some balance I would never call him or anyone else a nazi or racist. I hate those words being used and that directly goes to my criticism of VicLocal.

But the question I have for you is WTF were you doing here at 2am this morning? I'd hadn't even got up for my old man pee at that time :)

Tradies' income verses professionals ... I know lots of tradies some even now property developers FFS all doing real good and then there are the professionals I know working 60+ hours pw with massive HECs debts. In my mind tradies are way too expensive but the public can't hire them quick enough and it might also have something to to do with (1) the unwillingness of small outfits to put on apprentices (2) the gutting of the TAFE sector over the last decade or more by the usual political suspects.

I don’t understand your argument, freeride. Can you list a few concrete examples of changes you would like to see to tech giant offerings?

GuyS - “ In my mind tradies are way too expensive but the public can't hire them quick enough”

You probably don’t want to know that I’ve just put my rates up then?

These days I work with a lot of tradesmen. I see a lot of young guys doing well, many are cocksure smartarses with shit skills. Got all the gear, the big ute and trailer, 70 grand worth of tools, decked out in all the gear, can't shoot a nail straight, can't cut a mitre, can't fucken measure. Painters who can't enamel, can't do finishes. I've just been employed by a big local developer to do inspections/ fault reports and repaints on brand new million dollar properties with shit paint finishes. Can't believe what these guys tick off as completed.

Adam12 that all comes back to GuySmileys points 1) & 2) plus H2O's point about being shown "how to" for 4 years by a decent tradesman. It just doesn't happen that much anymore which is a shame.

garyg1412 wrote:

"Im sure those that go to university on average end up earning more than those that don't"

Indo I can't back this up with facts but at a Master Builders Association seminar I went to some years back there was mention of a study the MBA did whereby they compared a law degree to an apprentice carpenter who went on to be a successful builder. The lawyer was financially streaks ahead until around age 40 but then the builder pulled ahead and the lawyer never caught up.

Yes you see the lawyers driving around in their flashy Porsche Cayennes but the successful builder is the bloke driving his tricked up V6 Amarok around with a $150k Stabicraft hitched on the back.

100% many tradies earn as much or more than others with university degrees.

Plus they also have the advantage of often building their own home or having other tradies mates that do aspects of their builds for mates rates, so they often also have lower mortgages and homes/mortgages are generally out most expensive purchases we make in life.

But let's not spin some BS that the majority of people that go to university are hard done by society and low income earners, hence somehow are fighting back against society with wokeness, its just not true most people that get to university end up with decent paying jobs, thats the whole point people go to university and don't just try to get a job after year 12.

you're all on the money it seems

well, excluding a few wokester snipers... who don't seem at all interested in anything but defending their woeful woke highly subjective righteousness...

again...

"...From the perspective of neoliberal capitalism, IP is a godsend. It enables effortless and endless low cost virtue signalling and emotional capture of the supposed vanguard while maximising brand loyalty and profit.
It can summarily dismiss any competing narratives by cancelling them.
It's probably the most stunning co-opting of the "counter" culture ever seen."

nail hits head there

"...Frodo and Scomo have done few things I agree with, but their pre-pandemic announcement of aligning university placements with future job demands was good. Controversial but good. Just commonsense really - drop prices in degrees we'll need, raise them in ones we won't."

couldn't agree more, yet our resident uber woke student union rep. wrote it all off as "ideoligical" ...it appears, they just don't do common sense... still...

"...Doctors?

Jeez Indo, you been to a hospital lately? It's a United Nations gathering in gowns. Brings its own ethical issues, and not just matters of immigration, shipping in people to do jobs that with forward planning could've been filled by Australian kids, but also the resource drain on developing countries who have an urgent need for trained medial staff. Said countries foot the bill to train, then lose the doctor to Australia."

its a dog of a system, not least for stealing the most needed and desperately expensive best trained from struggling third world countries so they can come to oz to treat a few cases of the sniffles. ...it must do their heads in, the self indulgance they have to humour here for their opportunity

Blowin wrote:

I haven’t listened to Joe Rogan in a while, but I’m sure if you listened to the podcast in question any mention of the quote would be discussed in an eminently balanced and reasonable manner. Maybe I’m wrong? Maybe he has actually morphed into the drooling and irrational neo Nazi / unhinged right wing freak that those who’ve never listened to him and hated the idea of him liked to fantasise he really sounded like? I’d respect an attempt by yourself to listen in order to gain credibility for your post, Guy.

Alternatively we could all just sit here and slap each other on the back thinking “Cool grab - context be damned!”

100% you would need to listen to the Podcast to know the context of the conversation, will google and try to find the episode latter would be interesting to know.

Ive been listening to a lot of his podcast of late, it's not so much about Joe it's about the people he has on, he brings on anyone and everyone and it's natural conversation about anything and everything but yeah he does have a knack for having a civil conversation and debate with people that he doesn't always agree with too, I listened to the Ben Shapiro one the other day which is great example, where people can not always see eye to eye but remain civil and respectful and even have admiration and respect for each other.

Its funny you often hear people suggesting Joe is right wing or something, maybe its just his appearance the bald head tough guy look down to earth etc or maybe its because he has all types of people on his show including conservatives or maybe its his views on trans women competing in certain sports (which BTW are completely sane logically views that shouldn't even be controversial )

But he is pretty clear about being left leaning and supports all kinds of left leaning ideas both economical and social, but yeah he isn't radical left either.

"With regard to the seeming lack of youth political activism - "why is the rage of the young not directed at the economic conditions that see them locked out".

This is something I've wondered about for decades, wtf has happened?
Is it simply the result of hegemony?
Or is life just comfortable enough so that they don't want to complain?
Or what about the rise of what I call toxic positivity, where in certain social circles it's really quite uncool to express "negativity" about basically anything at all.

For those of us growing up in the 70s and 80s music and other culture was full of explicit examples of political statement.
I mean, just to start, the list of politically-charged Australian music from the 80s is endless.

Maybe part of the issue is wrapped up in the internet, social media, extreme libertarianism and the rise of narcissism?"

all of the above

"..Largely correct.

They don't see life in terms of economic issues, they see it in terms of identity issues.
Which is being relentlessly fed to them over social media by the Big Tech companies who profit the most from fragmented identity politics.

Lots of these kids too, aren't locked out. They are wealthy, sometimes very wealthy. They will inherit property.

The chief area of protest and concern for them is Cultural/identity, not economic."

absolutely, these are the cats doing arts anx law degrees, ...and learning all the very vogue academic ip hyperbole... and being the noisyest (and most impressionable) on social media. ...t really doesn't matter about the economic arguments, as their shitty network benefits fall back position is about 4 pay grades higher than most people anyway...

yeh they're pissed they can't afford the commensurate million dollar modest unit etc. place of residence, ...but it really don't matter, they'll just sit it out in mummy's guest rooms or the granny flat until things change or daddy fronts up the 200k depisit...

the kids scratching to get secure enough work to get a loan for their commensurate 200k pad ain't so noisy (or listened to...) on social media.

...the one's I meet are bagging the woke shit more than me...

which doesn't mean they're sexist or racist, quite the opposite actually, there's been huge development there... it's just not their whole world, they have other priorities bigger than the endless self indulgant naval gazing to worry about it would seem...

"...The annual graduate outcomes survey outlines how uni grads fare in terms of employment and wages each year, and does comparisons to non-uni educated people: https://www.qilt.edu.au/qilt-surveys/graduate-employment.

I haven't read the latest but the 2019 survey (https://www.afr.com/policy/health-and-education/grads-earn-more-but-unis...) concluded that uni grads earn more and have lower unemployment."

...got no doubts about that, but i suspect this research is terribly plagued by averages. and all those crew with degrees are quite often in better socioeconomic positions to begin with, so even if the degree job doesn't come through, other opportunities abound...

which doesn't mean degrees and education are useless. the skills and knowledge aquired are always transferrable, even from some of the most ridiculous useless degrees that have sprung up of late...

and, ...once upon a time, people went to uni to get an education as much or moreso than get a career, ...well, many did... the education aquired was seen as a value in itself... those were the days...

trade versus degree

I think crew are missing the point, that both of these learnt opportunities are subject to booms and bust. and huge geographical opportunity discrepencies

when I finished my trade early nineties, recession times, pre 'grubby subbies' etc. ...very different times... many trades/tradespeople weren't getting much more than minimum wage. and crew with degrees were getting significantly more wage... hence nearly all parents pushing the degree bandwagon...

fast forward 20 or so years, trades are killing it, getting often more than crew with degrees... hence many parents now pushing the trade avenue... but the soft little handed ones don't want it... and governments from BOTH sides haven't really facillitated it...

all through these times there has always been good regional opportunities for both career paths for the adventurous. and tradespeople near big cities quite often are killing it due to better opportunities. ...so take the cash goofy, fuck the guilt trippers... swings and roundabouts mate, ...and you won't be able to push that swing as long as guysmiley can push his pen! (smiley face)

"...Its funny you often hear people suggesting Joe is right wing or something, maybe its just his appearance the bald head tough guy look down to earth etc or maybe its because he has all types of people on his show including conservatives or maybe its his views on trans women competing in certain sports "

...or maybe it's just some people are somewhat brainwashed / easily lead / terribly judgmental / closed minded, ....and / or totally lead astray...

or, ...'the narrative' is just bullshit...

all of the above?

good to see some people still have the facilities of an open mind...

former blm woman finds herself a big fan of a 'white supremicist nazi"

https://m.

"which doesn't mean they're sexist or racist, quite the opposite actually, there's been huge development there... it's just not their whole world, they have other priorities bigger than the endless self indulgent naval gazing to worry about it would seem..."

Too true, but it won't stop that brush being tarred though.

...and now for something completely different. Not political, cultural, or economic, but still interesting....to me

A day before I busted my clavicle and ribs I finished a section of track I've called the 308s. A berm run with three turns that links two existing bits of track.

First berm (below), pretty small but riders won't be going too fast there as it's at the end of a flat section of track, but then it leans downhill and twenty metres away are the next two berms.

Above are the next two berms when viewed looking up the hill. Camera lessens the steepness, and also the size, both are about four feet high and the one in the foreground goes to vertical. They're also sharper than what these pics would leave you to believe - the last berm turns approx 135 degrees.

I stacked it not long after the berm in the foreground, in part cos the track was dry and dusty, yet with the rain we've had recently the dirt is perfect for riding. When I was up there yesterday two riders flew by, railing the berms at max speed. No slip, no drift. Hero dirt, as it's called.

Reason I was up there was to put the finishing touch on the 308s - a faux chromoly paint job on the engine block that gives the section its name.

Carry on...

How'd you carry that thing up there with your ribs being the way they are?

Drove it, torched the HQ, then waited for the rest of the car to rust away.

Simple.

In reality, while it's on the foothills of the escarpment, this section of bush aint State Conservation Area. Starting last century it was heavily industrialised with two mines that have honeycombed the hill and cause ongoing instability issues, while the bush, though rewilded, is littered with coalwash - great to build with! - railway gauge, old coal hopppers, all manner of industrial detritus, plus the odd car wreck, most probably driven along the firetrails to get there.

I'm guessing the odd shallow grave too?

Nice work.

Mate of mine lives in a lovely area of Vancouver (Anmore) he, his boys and the other local rats have been shaping and forming the forest surrounding them for years. Last time I was there went for a stroll and it was so refreshing to see kids out and about enjoying nature rather than glued to their devices. More power to you I say.

wally wrote:

Yep, it was much better in the old days. There was a more cohesive vision where we all spoke with one voice, a straight white male voice.

Wally, do you remember when you could disagree with someone and have an actual argument/debate (not rant)? When it was ok to not all sing from the same book of hymns.

That's what a lot of people miss.

I agree Blowin, not really one for jumps but those berms look really fun and when I've dabbled the last couple of years, do ride the best. Love a pump track.

It's surfing in the bush.

I didn't build all of this trail, much of it was already there but the features I've put in are all banked and flowy, or where you've gotta get air, the transitions are really smooth.

Below the berms is this wall ride I built with the eldest - I think he may have passed me a hammer at one point.

The trail is just over 800m long, drops 140m in elevation, and is packed with all kinds of features - log gaps, step downs, drops, hips, and berms - mostly augmenting the natural shape of the land, and ends in a really fun step up jump. See below.

nice work stu & co .... and the nearest coffee shop?

500m away. Ryan's Pub even closer.

That clip above reminded me of some long time ago BMX glory.

We'd built a ramp on my lawn about double that and we laid down the challenge how many kids we could jump laying side by side.

I was 10 years old and quite the show off. Down the hill, between the gap in the hedge, across my neighbours front lawn on to ours and boom, hit the ramp. 15 kids cleared and landed clean as a whistle. Power slide to stop. Could have done another 5 more but we ran out friends.

Yep, that's it. No animals or kids were hurt that day except Claire went home crying because Michael Tucker wasn't into her (plus she hated being called Bluey by him cause she was a readhead).

win win win

Power slide!

Fuck, haven't heard that in a while.

Also Zen, should your faith in mankind be wavering, rest assured all is well: the ten-year old in the photos above got caught jumping over friends on his bike. A parent of one of the kids told me, expecting condemnation, got an involuntary smile instead.

That involuntary smile seconded.

Legend!

Blowin wrote:

Berms look like the best bit of bike riding. Like banking off the top of a wave.

In the late 80s the road to our main beachies was still gravel and had a full sized berm on the side of the road that you could ride up with you car it would have been two metre's high and the perfect shape/slope all the surfers at the time use to hit it as they came down the hill like you were banking of the top of a wave.

I was only a young grommet at the time but still twisted my old mans arm to hit it but it was never at the speed and height that the young guysl hit it and then when i finally did come of age and had my licence it was only half as high and then they sealed the road not long after so it got bulldozed.,

I dont know if anyone crashed but i remembering seeing cars almost lose it, god i wish there was footage of it.

zenagain wrote:

That clip above reminded me of some long time ago BMX glory.

We'd built a ramp on my lawn about double that and we laid down the challenge how many kids we could jump laying side by side.

I was 10 years old and quite the show off. Down the hill, between the gap in the hedge, across my neighbours front lawn on to ours and boom, hit the ramp. 15 kids cleared and landed clean as a whistle. Power slide to stop. Could have done another 5 more but we ran out friends.

Yep, that's it. No animals or kids were hurt that day except Claire went home crying because Michael Tucker wasn't into her (plus she hated being called Bluey by him cause she was a readhead).

Ha ha...thats exactly what we use to do too, jump your mates laying down, never managed that many kids though, 15 is impressive.

Crazy thinking back and the stuff we use to do, i remember we even use to push our bikes in-front of sow moving cars "ghost ride" as some silly game.

And also i remember staging an accident like our bikes were locked up together in a crash and we would lay on the ground like it had just happened, and cars would stop and go are you okay...not even sure why we did it.

The stuff you do as kids

"The stuff you do as kids."

Ha ha! Don't get me started Indo, lucky any of us made to adulthood sometimes I reckon.

PS- The staging of an accident is classic. Wish I'd thought of that.

G'day Stu, that wall ride looks great. What's the length of the palings?
What's the span of each section of wall?
I know a kid who'd be keen to build something like that.
Anything you'd change in the design?

GuySmiley wrote:

Okay i checked it out, its not what he said this is what he said:

“You can never be woke enough, that’s the problem,”. “It keeps going further and further and further down the line and if you get to the point where you capitulate, where you agree to all these demands, it’ll eventually get to ‘straight white men are not allowed to talk’.”

Basically he is saying there is no end game with wokeness, which is true and which is the big problem (even if most of the time it originally started with a good cause/goal), there is never going to be a point where the woke say okay mission accomplished.

The video starts just before he says it.

BTW. Just the other week in an interview Danzig said this about wokeness and cancel culture.

In regard to the Punk movement “I don’t think people will ever see anything like it again,” Danzig said. “There won’t be any new bands coming out like that. Now, they will immediately get canceled.”

“People don’t understand, because everything’s so cancel-culture, woke bullshit nowadays, but you could never have the punk explosion nowadays, because of cancel culture and woke bullshit,” Danzig explained when asked for further clarification. “You could never have it. It would never have happened. We’re lucky it happened when it did, because it’ll never happen again. You won’t have any of those kinds of bands ever again. Everyone’s so uptight and P.C., it’s just like, ‘OK, whatever.'”
https://www.spin.com/2021/04/glenn-danzig-cancel-culture/

"Okay i checked it out, its not what he said this is what he said:..."

well that's a surprise... or not...

"BTW. Just the other week in an interview Danzig said this about wokeness and cancel culture.

In regard to the Punk movement “I don’t think people will ever see anything like it again,” Danzig said. “There won’t be any new bands coming out like that. Now, they will immediately get canceled.”..."

seeing a few crew starting to call shit out now,, thank fuck...

while I generally agree with mr. danzig, I think he's a bit wrong. I reckon the wokesters are creating an environment ripe for some rebellion...

we don't really need punk reinvented mark lll (or would that be mark llll?) ...but it would certainly be pretty easy to make a name for oneself in the current climate, with a bit of punk attitude and a not giving fuck about fame and profits... which is basically what it was mark l and ll...

this guy's all over it, as usual...

the democrats have become the party of the 'fuddy duddies', the 'funsuckers', ...they are now the puritanical moralisers, ...the boring and religious righteous really... shit's gotten all out of whack...

https://m.

"...Maher argued that “we need to restore the natural order of things. I don’t want to live in a world where liberals are the uptight ones and conservatives do drugs and get laid. Once upon a time the Right were the ones offended by everything. They were the party of speech codes and black lists and moral panics, and demanding some TV show had to go. Well now that’s us. We’re the fun-suckers now.”

Maher complained that liberals now “suck the fun out of everything. Halloween. The Oscars. Childhood. Twitter. Comedy. It’s like woke kids on campus decided to be all the worst parts of a Southern Baptist. And that’s wrong — because it’s cultural appropriation.”..."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thewrap.com/bill-maher-wishes-democrats...

Patrick wrote:

G'day Stu, that wall ride looks great. What's the length of the palings? What's the span of each section of wall? I know a kid who'd be keen to build something like that. Anything you'd change in the design?

Hey Patrick,

Advice? Sit cross legged in the bush and stare. Allow any critters like echidnas to nuzzle at your feet. If birds land nearby don't stare back but show humility, stay aware but lower your eyes to avoid direct eye contact.

All important matters. 

Look at the section of track or would-be-track and note all the angles and undulations of the ground. Stake it out using garden stakes first to help imagine the feature. Don't rush.

Importantly, note the entry and exit angles of the berm. Some wall rides have a sharp entry, you've almost gotta turn your bike 90 degrees and bunny hop onto it, others have a softer entry. I wanted this to be similar entry to the big one at Thredbo.

Also, exit, do you want riders to go off the end or ride down to the ground before the end? Each will change the exit angle. I played around with the garden stakes for a while to get the angles right - and still got them a bit wrong (more to come on that).

I expected we'd ride off the end of my wall ride, however the angles were all wrong and only the best riders could do it, everyone else had to cut down before the end (see tyre marks on next photo). I couldn't extend the wall because the wall formed a track junction and the black star picket brace would've impeded that track.

If I did it again I'd add two more sections and taper them down, say from 1.5m high to 1.25m to 1m high, forming a gradual slope and easy drop off the end.

Because I couldn't stick a star picket into the track behind I had to build a wedge of rocks and cover it with coal wash to ride onto at the end of the berm.

It's been in service about four months now and has become part of the main line on the hill. The wedge at the end is wearing well, still covered in coal wash, no rocks have moved.

Even though it's not a progressive feature, even young riders can get their tyres up there in a day or two, it's unreal watching good riders hit it. Month or so back I watched a kid from Woonona, really good racer, pretty fearless, hit it at ridiculous speed, but rather than go high, which is shitloads of fun, he stayed low for the shortest and quickest line, going round the wall with his inside handlebar just centimetres off the ground.

Ha...before I got into the trail fairy side of things, I was wondering where my shovels were dissappearing to. Found them in the bush up there, 'hidden' in plain sight beside a crude jump.

sypkan wrote:

I reckon the wokesters are creating an environment ripe for some rebellion... it would certainly be pretty easy to make a name for oneself in the current climate, with a bit of punk attitude and a not giving fuck

Agree wholeheartedly.

Probably just a matter of time really.

Stu communing before venturing forth into the Illawara scrub.