Shark Soup WA

Whatever you're smoking Brunty, save some for me!

removed

Brunty wrote:

too much conservation do goody good doism

Too much conservation ay, conserving the natural environment and balance is a bad thing?

This is one of the worst threads I've read.

Growing population = more people getting in the water and on the coast = more interactions with sharks. Yet the chance and occurrence is not even a blip on the radar.

Culling is no way to solve the issue and I think you'd find these greenies actually do care/surf themselves and it's far from a money grab..

Faaark yeah mate why stop at the sharks aye the other day some poor cnut I know got smashed by a car fkn near ripped em in two it was driven by some cnut on the piss been happening too much lately aye better cull some cnuts and their cars and ban piss aye it's my world too I'm a fkn greenie.

Barney is a total fuck-up on land, but he is doing some good shit in the sea. Saving us all from being killed by culling tigers & bronzies. Go Barney! Maybe the WA voting public can push for a split leadership, Barney at sea and Buswell on land? Win win.

Good call brunty..my only issue is they haven't actually gone after the sharks doing the damage i.e pointers.If your going to cull at least get the ones that do the fuckn damage. If you really want to stop it ..go to Neptune and cull the fuckers there. that's where your problem comes from!

How's this youtube footage of a Great White choking to death on a seal on a W.A beach recently!
http://m.

looked pretty alive to me as it swam away.

Nah freeride it reportedly died on the beach soon after.
http://www.skynews.com.au/news/national/2014/07/17/shark-chokes-on-sea-l...

ABC online have a story and pic .

Guess he bit off more then he could chew.... eh eh eh.

I can't stomach that joke...

Must have been hard to paunch through the surf zone.

awff awff awff is that the sound of the seal or the shark choking

Maw! Maw! they cried.

Think of the cost savings as the papers merely rerun the sports page headlines from the British Open of Golf 20 years ago-

" Great White Shark Chokes"

Brunty and Barney...sharing the same brain cell.

I can't find the forum topic on sharks from last week that discussed the sad event of that guy being attacked by a GWS at Clarks Beach-Byron so this really is the wrong forum topic for my comments but .......

Anyway there was some discussion about how the GWS are re-emerging on the east coast and the reasons for this including increased whale numbers and possible increased populations of east coast seal colonies.

I was talking to a keen fisher (snorkel, scuba & boat) about this forum thread yesterday. He thought increased whales and seals numbers were credible reasons why GWS might be more visible or about and he added another reason why they might be so.

As a long-term fisher he has noticed an almost total collapse of King Fish numbers thanks to commercial fishing operations and he thinks they are pretty much fished out on the East Coast and points to this fact as a reason why sharks might be going whales and perhaps also looking for food inshore of where they might have traditionally done.

Any views?

floyd wrote:

As a long-term fisher he has noticed an almost total collapse of King Fish numbers thanks to commercial fishing operations and he thinks they are pretty much fished out on the East Coast and points to this fact as a reason why sharks might be going whales and perhaps also looking for food inshore of where they might have traditionally done.

Any views?

I don't know where your mate has been fishing floyd, but there's no shortage of Kingfish in NSW.
Ever since they banned the floating Kingfish traps years ago, Kings have been steadily making a comeback.
Every Summer they invade Lake Macquarie and bust up all the Bream and Whiting fishermen, have caught them up to 10Kgs every year in the lake and inshore, then they head out to the 100 metre reefs for winter where a fairly reliable jigging and live baiting fishery has established itself amongst the rec fishos.

Why the whites seem more prevalent (if they really are) who knows, they've been a common enough sight in the 20 plus years I've been fishing offshore around my neck of the woods.

Mention of Lake Macquarie, a 3metre GSW circled a tinny in the lake a week or so ago.

Tracks mag also just had a story on Baddy Trealoar and his recent GWS encounter...and how he is seeing more and more white pointers in the last 10 years.

Yep, sharks are common in the lake but usually hammerheads.
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/2554586/great-white-shark-circles-lake...
Amazing what sea life shows up in that lake at times.

rgtnd

Hi Lenny, can you clarify this please:

"we are due for another 2 attacks. Close together, within 4 weeks. We have had 3 fatal attacks in 294 days in NSW only. Does this seem a little out of wack to anyone?"

Are you saying in WA there hasn't been an attack for a while but NSW has had a lot more than usual?

gnyum

e5hb

Ironic how it just happens to be from a shark fisherman whose business was most likely going down hill..
Lenny how many people die on average world wide from shark attack?
I'm guessing that it would be less than the amount of people dying DAILY in Syria, Iraq etc.
bigger things to worry about IMO

lenny67 wrote:

...just tryin to save people going thru my ordeal or worse losing a limb or worsER death in a horrid fashion.. Glen..

What? So stay out of the water from now until the next 'expected' attack and then we're good to go until your stats show a red light again.

Attacks are totally random, aren't more prevalent in marine reserves and are just unfortunate.

ngfj

So you estimate over 700 people die from attacks every year?
I'd love to know how you got that number.
I estimate your about 650 over

How many people in Aus dying from shark attacks now - I have in my head that it used to be 1-2 per year last decade but this decade - 4/5?

Interesting find here..

WA beach attendance stats. Over the last year 8 years attendance numbers have increased by just over 3x from 1.21mil to 3.86mil.

I don't think there has been a 3 fold increase in attacks has there? So more people in the water will result in more attacks, but it doesn't seem out of the ordinary at all..

Has the population and tourism increased 3 fold? Otherwise highly suspicious of that data.

Number of people entering the water may have increase but so has the shark population!
Old salty abalone divers went for 10-20 years without seeing a GWS and now facing one in the water is a weekly, sometimes daily event.

Yet the attacks aren't increasing at the same rate Uncle Leroy, that's the point.

So there's more sharks, good, haven't seen a spiked increase in attacks, which is also good.

I live in Pt Lincoln on the eyre peninsula and sharks are spotted very,very regularly here. There has always been lots of great whites here, but the number of sightings varies every year. One year it will seem like they have doubled in numbers, whilst the next there will be half as many. Maybe it's something to do with whale migration or tuna movement, I don't know, but they definetly come and go a lot. I imagine it's the same case in WA and I am sure the rise in attacks is relative to the amount of people in the water. Even if pointer numbers have increased I wouldn't say it would increase the amount of attacks as much as they have in WA. Humans are a desperate last resort for great whites. You would probably be horrified if you knew how many times you've been passed up as a meal by a great white, while out surfing!

yk7ig

Glen - sorry about your attack.
I disagree however that we should, in anyway remove or discontinue Marine Reserve or Parks. If anything we need to increase them. over harvesting of the oceans is the single biggest issue our oceans face today. even more than pollution. we are fishing down the food chain. Oceans today contain around 1/10 of the large-bodied species they did.
1/2 the worlds fisheries are overexploited and can not be fished more extensively despite the growth in population and our taste for more fish. overharvesting leads to other problems such as unwanted by catch ( such as sharks!), eutrophication and creates optimum conditions for invasive species. marine reserves create sanctuaries and leave ecosystems intact. they increase diversity, biomass, and distribution of marine species. they decrease mortality and habitat destruction.

Just as important, Marine reserves produce a spill over effect where the areas adjacent to them also see the same benefits with an increase in abundance of marine species. this improves fisheries and eco tourism.

we need to expand Marine reserves. not shut them down.

"Just as important, Marine reserves produce a spill over effect where the areas adjacent to them also see the same benefits with an increase in abundance of marine species. this improves fisheries and eco tourism."

Any evidence for that? I live on the boundaries of a Marine Park and have noticed no net increase in abundance of common fish species.

Glen here's a link on how to upload photos.. https://www.swellnet.com/forums/wax/96181

@freeride.. here are few cross section papers..
http://espace.library.uq.edu.au/view/UQ:158285
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fe123
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/294/5548/1920.short
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165783600001144
http://www.esajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1890/1051-0761%282000%29010%5B1792...
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0964569104000250

there are heaps.

Just skimmed the list and the take out message is the effectiveness of marine parks is not scientifically proven.

The abstract from the last paper sums it perfectly:
"Marine reserves are a promising tool for fisheries management and conservation of biodiversity, but they are not a panacea for fisheries management problems. For fisheries that target highly mobile single species with little or no by-catch or habitat impact, marine reserves provide few benefits compared to conventional fishery management tools. For fisheries that are multi-species or on more sedentary stocks, or for which broader ecological impacts of fishing are an issue, marine reserves have some potential advantages. Their successful use requires a case-by-case understanding of the spatial structure of impacted fisheries, ecosystems and human communities."

that take out message is from one paper only, not the list i sent. my position is that marine reserves can significantly improve habitat and increase species both within the reserves & through the buffer zones. i believe there is an overwhelming amount of research to back this up.
is it scientifically proven? No. I don't know. as with everything there always exceptions.

fmtyj

fnj

djt d

Due respect Bonza but two out of the six papers - I could only read five, one link was dead- didn't even deal with Marine Reserves. They were about reduction or closure of areas to commercial fishing or banning of certain gear, an approach I totally agree with and which is completely proven.

My problem is with the lock-out of recreational fishermen from Marine parks, which has a far more dubious scientific record associated with it, especially when the effort and catch associated with the common species targeted by rec fishermen isn't known beforehand.

This paper you referenced http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165783600001144....even shows the increase in fish stocks while rec fishing is allowed.

I've just edited your posts Lenny to put those image link files in between these tags.. [img]~~~[/img]

The image won't show unless you put the URL where the ~~~ are.

And now from a peer reviewed paper that can be seen and viewed here.. http://taronga.org.au/sites/default/files/downloads/changing_patterns_of...

"The rise in Australian shark attacks, from an average of 6.5 incidents per year in 1990–2000, to 15 incidents per year over the past decade, coincides with an increasing human population, more people visiting beaches, a rise in the popularity of water-based fitness and recreational activities and people accessing previously isolated coastal areas."

"There is no evidence of increasing shark numbers that would influence the rise of attacks in Australian waters"

"The increase in shark attacks over the past two decades is consistent with international statistics of shark attacks increasing annually because of the greater numbers of people in the water."

---

Take home message: More people in and around the water = more attacks. The risk is no greater now than before.

bonza wrote:

Glen - sorry about your attack.
I disagree however that we should, in anyway remove or discontinue Marine Reserve or Parks. If anything we need to increase them. over harvesting of the oceans is the single biggest issue our oceans face today. even more than pollution. we are fishing down the food chain. Oceans today contain around 1/10 of the large-bodied species they did.
1/2 the worlds fisheries are overexploited and can not be fished more extensively despite the growth in population and our taste for more fish. overharvesting leads to other problems such as unwanted by catch ( such as sharks!), eutrophication and creates optimum conditions for invasive species. marine reserves create sanctuaries and leave ecosystems intact. they increase diversity, biomass, and distribution of marine species. they decrease mortality and habitat destruction.

Just as important, Marine reserves produce a spill over effect where the areas adjacent to them also see the same benefits with an increase in abundance of marine species. this improves fisheries and eco tourism.

we need to expand Marine reserves. not shut them down.

Sorry mate but I don't agree, we need to open them up as they were illegally created to sway a political election, this has been established through the court system and confirmed.
Australian fisheries are the best managed in the world and they should not be compared at all to what is happening in the likes of indonesia, china, japan etc

Bag limits for recreational fishers are tightly managed and constantly under review.
So much so that in WA there is a 2 month total closure on certain species and the baglimit of fish is 2 per person. The only thing that needs changing is maybe some of the commercial sector in regards to netting of estuaries and some of the deeper ocean stuff. We have a healthy popluation of tuna and growing comapered to the rest of the work and that is also on strict quota limits.

Every one jumps up and down about marine parks, but we don't need them with proper bag limits in place the way they are, all of which are based on science and research.
Don't get me started on the grey nurse debate in NSW, we lost out family camping spot to the supposed lack of grey nurses when every spearfisherman along the nsw coast knows that there are thousands of them left, when simply managing a few areas against commercial fisherman would have controlled the situation. Plus stop dive boat operators profiting from blinding the poor sharks to death with strobe flash lights on camera housings. Imagine if you were a grey nurse trying to have a relax when 20 people every day of the week came into your cave with a dirty big camera set up, flashing away. be the same as them doing it in your bedroom at 2am, if you could find a bedroom they didn't know about that is where you would go the sleep, same as the grey nurse.

An old fella can't even go and catch a whiting off the beach with 6lb line and a piece of beach worm because he is going to reel in a grey nurse shark????? you have to be kidding me.

It's all a scam, the money went straight into the pockets of dive boat operators from Kevin '07
Now national parks are being locked up and more beach access being blocked off and roads turned into bitumen. We have enough rules and regulations in place, we don't need anymore just to win votes like they have done so in the past.
that's my 2cents anyway, can't even round it up to 5c for a red frog

bgcj