Smokescreens and mirrors

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of an opinion without the discomfort of thought" ... JFK

I rather like that quote because while everyone is entitled to voice an opinion it really ought to be a considered one.

My considered opinion (and continuing the football theme):

Adelaide for the premiership. 97 redux. Richmond are pretenders. GWS, up n down like a young bride's nightie. Geelong, hmmmm, could be the real smokie? Co-finalists? Sydney, finalists, probably. Yeah, nah. Port, could give a scare. Rest, making up the numbers.

Does anyone on this thread actually know anyone currently on the dole ?

I do.

I watched the Macgregor / Mayweather fight with an even half dozen of them at a riverside RSL club.

All of them are on the dole or rooting disability benefits by choice. All are full time bong smokers . Whilst I was drinking beer a few of them were into the more expensive spirits. Often during the afternoon a friend of theirs would pass and when I asked who they were ....well , guess what ? More hard working dole bludgers.

I've been there and done it myself , albeit briefly . So we're most of my mates when we were younger . Good times.

You think times are different now ?

Regardless of what your media of choice is , it's up to you to interpret it. Left wing media will tell you it's the evil government ruining lives for votes. Right wing media will tell you it's the reclaimation of taxpayers money from piss take welfare frauds.

Of course it's both.

Don't be the moron that assumes unassailable authority on the subject by picking a side and declaring it unquestionably correct.

It's patronising , it's wrong , it's weak and it's lazy.

Quotes alluding to inconsidered opinion reflect just as harshly on all .

Mate, great post. One thing though. You're a bullshitter. So we can take your anecdote/opinion/whatever it is with a grain of salt, slice of lemon, tequila bong, whatever suits.

Your motives for most if not all of your 'postings' are always interesting though. Waaay more interesting than the actual content, of course. Keep 'em flowing.

There's a PhD in there for the punter with the stomach for it.

Go Crows!

1/ I'm unemployed...that is I don't have a job. I'm not on the dole or any form of welfare.

2/ I'm sitting at a table with family and friends, someone they know walks past and one of my family/ friends has a quick conversation. When the person leaves, I ask my family / friend who it was and where they know them from. They tell me.

Amazing stuff.

And so very unbelievable.

That'll be the last time I answer to your accusations , Sheepy.

And I'm only doing it for you because you haven't always carried on like some of the clueless fucks on here.

You grew up as a surfer ....you honestly think that people no longer rort the system as was commonplace back then ?

Or has life made you assume everyone is a victim ? Cause that is bullshit.

I say good luck to people SURFING on the dole. Better than play vid games all day.
Being part of the Bob Hawke surf team was some of the best times of my life.

Is this the "pub test" you were alluding to, SD?

Anyway, always interesting to see 'LNP 101' in action. In all its usual manifestations. The more disarray they're in, the more they scurry nervously back to type. The latest: THE DOLE BLUDGER. ON DRUGS!

One little thing that I found interesting in The Blow-in's story:

"I've been there and done it myself , albeit briefly . So we're most of my mates when we were younger . Good times.

You think times are different now ?"

Well, as has been mentioned somewhere else, the dole hasn't gone up in real terms since 1996! Bang for the buck?! Good luck!

Also, the disproportion in these 'debates' is always a gasser. Disproportion in equating the most powerful in this country and their 'rorts' and the most powerless with theirs. That's one thing. And the disproportion in economic terms is out of whack enough, but the media coverage is the real kicker.

How many people are we actually talking about here?

As someone said, let's first take out the dog-whistle that equates everyone receiving benefits with being a 'dole bludger' and/or 'drug addict'.

Crunch the actual numbers.

In June 2017, there were 770,443 New Start Allowees. Of that number, 203,203 are short-term NS Allowees, and 567,240 are long-term.

Long-term means more than 12 months.

Australia's working age population is roughly 16 million.

So those receiving NSA equals about 4.5%.

Out of that 4.5%, how many are NOT trying to find work? How is that figure even defined or arrived at?

And then out of that 'dole bludger' guesstimate, how many are 'drug addicts'? What does THAT mean? Testing for weed and MDMA? And even with opioids and meth, is that the reason they can't find work?? How many FIFOs are iced up?

It's been well-documented who's doing the business with the welfare card. The LNPs old mates Indue! But where can you use it? What other businesses benefit directly?

Also, who's getting this drug-testing gig? How much is that cost to the tax-payer?

All to punish, what? 75,000? 100,000? 200,000 people at most out of 16 million??

Sorry, it's not punitive, it's all about 'helping' them. It'll all be worth it, if just one ice addict can get a(nother) job*.

Bang for OUR buck indeed!

(*Next week's A Current Affair 'exclusive')

Oh yeah, in those NSA figures, not all of them are even getting any money, let alone the full 'whack'. Which, as I said, hasn't had a real increase for 20+ years!

https://www.dss.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/08_2017/labour_mark...

Forget about the government being a bunch of thieves for a second. We're all in agreement on that.

The dole crew aren't classed as drug addicts. It's just that they're accused of using drugs . Which , rightly or wrongly , are illegal. And they're not free. So the government could legitimately say that welfare wasn't intended to subsidise people getting off chops rather than looking for a way to pay their own way through life.

Because every person on welfare is taking money that could otherwise be spent on education , health etc .

Are we still good with what I've stated so far ?

Good.

But first I'd better account for the whataboutery . Yes, corporate rent seekers and various other versions of government fund rorting are also larceny. Maybe even on a grander scale.

But that neither excuses or justifies the abuse of the public funds by welfare frauds.

So we aren't punching up or down , we're trying to further the yield of the net tax revenue that is collected from some of us.

Fair enough ?

OK , the maths. Out of New start receivers , let's assume a low ball figure of 10 percent are blissing out during their non -working weeks. So that's 77,000 people on $17500/ year (?). Total of $1.35 billion on crew that would rather blaze up during the Ellen show than work for the man.

$1.35 Billion !

And that's not including crew on disability which is where the real piss taking takes place.

I don't know about you, but that's a lot of money in my world.

Especially if you know someone that is struggling to get appropriate medical treatment due to budget shortfalls in government.

So I'm not for drug testing welfare recipients as it would be hypocritical of me , but for many people that work their whole lives and never take government hand outs or drugs then you could see why the idea would be appealing .

People have their reasons for opinions. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they're ignorant or vexatious or classist.

Fuck , maybe they're even correct ?!

Mate, anyone who can make a go of it being a full-time bong smoker and live on the dole these days deserves a fcuking medal if you ask me.

If they can afford rent, food and mull on $200 a week we should give them PhD's and whack them in unis to teach economics.

I was right into a post writing off these people - mates and family - when I realised that wasn't necessary or nice.

Good people , just not too driven. Or driven at all. Theyre not living large eating fresh spaniard and getting pitted between fortnightly trips to see their dole officer somewhere north of Carnarvon .

They're living in shit places and scrounging to exist because they have chosen not to work. Laudable or not ? I'll let you decide.

But all that matters to the tax paying public is the last part .....chosen not to work.

So does anyone else know someone on the dole ?

Blowin, this is all well and good but what are you doing on here? aren't you on a magical road trip around Oz? I'd be buggered if I would bother if I were in your shoes/thongs!

I don't know anyone on the dole anymore, but when i was on the dole, and i was on the dole for quite some time in three different states, i knew shitloads of people on the dole, i didn't actually know that many people with jobs to be honest.

In most places i lived this was my routine and the routine of shitloads of guys i knew on the dole.

1. get up early check the beach, if it was decent go surfing (or for many of my friends smoke a cone or two first) if waves no good and knew would be good elsewhere, we would all throw in for petrol.

2. Come in have a feed sit down and watch Ricky Lake or something similar or surf vids, then go visit friends who were also on the dole, houses full of crew on the dole, I've never been a big smoker, but there was always pot most of my friends were pot heads and lived for it, always bongs never joints, don't know how but no matter how little money they had they always had pot, sure they would grow some but i think mostly bought. (there was always that one odd guy, that either had a job, sold pot and more, or had generous parents, everyone always seemed to owe him money)

3. Normally go for another surf, come home, maybe catch up with crew again, eat sleep wake and do it all, if it was the weekend despite being on the dole would normally get pissed at least one night, even if it was something real cheap, or when on the Goldie, drugs other than pot were more a special occasion. (but the real pot heads rarely partied as spent most of their money on pot, me i spent it on Alcohol)

Everywhere i lived or when i traveled id met crew and it would be the same, and id often end up at peoples houses that were friends of friends and it would be the same.

Ive seen this scenario everywhere from Tassie to Vic, the Gong, Sydney, Scotts head, Coffs, Byron, the Goldie, Sunny coast.

Everyone would go through phases of working maybe part time, or casual or ideally cash in hand, but full time jobs rarely seemed to last and everyone always seemed to be back of the dole.

I can't imagine suddenly this is different? especially on places like the Goldie.

And when id go to the city be it Melb, Sydney, Brisbane and go see bands, id always end up waking on someones floor at some shared house, and even non surfers there would be a similar scenario, although there was also always uni students mixed in there.

But i did get to an age where everyone suddenly got a job and it was like the party was over and i also got a job and once they cut my dole off for going to Indo i was over it and got a job.

BTW. Testing people for drug use who are getting free cash is not punishing, its not a right to be on the dole and spend tax payers money on drugs and getting pissed.

well I've been on the dole in WA, SA, VIC, and NSW. i was trying for QLD once but some bastard gave me a job. i worked in between though so I never felt bad about it. but that was years ago. no idea what its like today. i hear its pretty fucked.

whats this shit got to do with the welfare card though?

I don't get why you'd want to be on the dole?
Don't you want to buy new boards, go on surf trips overseas, drive a half decent car, buy $300 bags of coke etc etc???
Ok maybe that last one isn't for everyone..
I enjoy rewarding myself with things that I've worked hard for.
And I don't like relying on other people (government) to survive

Guysmiley - I visited some relatives for a while and wound up staying longer than I'd predicted. Looking after an old mate and getting caught in the comfort zone after so many years of travel are to blame, if that's what you need to call it.

I'm on here a lot because my latest attempt at making a living is conducted on my iPad so I'm on it a lot and Swellnet is good for the regular decompression between sessions.

I keep making plans to go somewhere then something comes up. At the moment I've got an injury after getting smashed into a sand bank and that's keeping me out of the surf.

Such a good time of year where I am.

Plus.....I love a discussion.

PS - Indo , sounds like good times, mate.

Also sounds very familiar. I reckon half the nation's surfers were on that program at the time.

A bit of a 'gallop' there, Blow-in. But let's have a run at it.

"Forget about the government being a bunch of thieves for a second. We're all in agreement on that."

How's this relevant? Do you mean they're benefits rorters? Yes. Need a testing regime of their own? Most definitely. They run the country. Well...

"The dole crew aren't classed as drug addicts."

Porter must have missed the memo.

"Because every person on welfare is taking money that could otherwise be spent on education , health etc "

The biggest part of our welfare expenditure is on age pensions. Who has a problem with that? I don't and definitely don't see it as a first port of call to start culling. As I don't with disability pensions, unemployment and other benefits. There are a whole lot of bigger fish to fry. Having said that, should age pensions be means-tested? Yes.

"Yes, corporate rent seekers and various other versions of government fund rorting are also larceny. Maybe even on a grander scale."

A much, much, much grander scale. And therein lies the rub.

"But that neither excuses or justifies the abuse of the public funds by welfare frauds."

What emotive language! "Welfare frauds!" I know you try and play the devil's advocate a bit in your post, Blow-in, or rather put that forward, but really? Looks a little flimsy.

"So we aren't punching up or down , we're trying to further the yield of the net tax revenue that is collected from some of us."

Doesn't read like that. And where does GST fit into all this "net tax revenue"? "Collected from SOME of us"?

"Especially if you know someone that is struggling to get appropriate medical treatment due to budget shortfalls in government."

Looking at "budget shortfalls" with a dispassionate economic eye, wouldn't you want to recoup and/or collect the most from the areas where the most is being lost? Morseso, from potential sources of the greatest revenue?

A really dispassionate economic eye would probably agree that it's easier, though some may say lazier, to recoup and/or collect from the least powerful rather than the most powerful. It may even be more advantageous in various ways, again viewed through the prism of that dispassionate economic eye.

Who're the lifters & leaners again?

"So I'm not for drug testing welfare recipients as it would be hypocritical of me , but for many people that work their whole lives and never take government hand outs or drugs then you could see why the idea would be appealing ."

Who are those people? Never take government hand-outs? Now there's a percentage of the population I'd like to see. Drug-takers, hmmmm. I might need a Mersyndol and a good lie down.

"People have their reasons for opinions. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they're ignorant or vexatious or classist."

Well, there's a study in stating the bleeding obvious. Yes, people have their opinions. And all sorts of stuff 'informs' them. It's what informs them that gives them weight, yes? The wider the range, the better? Or rather, the narrower, the worst?

Surely it's a given that stepping outside your own experience is vital? Be that literally stepping in another's shoes, and/or doing it through whatever means are at hand to better inform yourself.

How's that old chestnut go?

"You perceive and judge people the way you perceive and judge yourself."

Self-awareness is a worthy pursuit.

Nice .

@ Goofyfoot I finished school early 90,s all i wanted to do was go surfing which meant living near the coast, which in may areas back then was before the sea change thing was dead, in that era even if i wanted a job or an apprenticeship the chances of getting one would have been slim, plus at the time i didn't real need that much money and i didn't really need that much, all i needed was waves, friends and partying and in a sense i didn't know what it was like to have money so it didn't seem all that bad.

@ Blowin It was really good times, no regrets really i even did two trips up and down the east coast on the dole living in a Kombi one time with a mate, one time with a girlfriend.

@Happyas the conversation is about the wealth fare card and also drug testing, i just shared my story, as unless you have been on the dole for a long time and been involved in the culture that exist around it for many people, than it's really hard to have a proper perspective to comment, its like someone commenting on surfing that has never surfed.

But off course there is people that know better, and will just post witty quotes that are really just one line opinions borrowed from someone else.

the days of living on the dole and going surfing are dead.

How many jobs do you have to apply for per month again now?

@ID, 

You've admitted to some pretty egregious abuse of welfare, including drug use, then gone and backed welfare drug testing - the very thing you've just trumpeted!

As I get older I'm very concious of sliding toward conservatism, it's what ageing blokes do as evidenced by the last few generations, Baby Boomers in particular. But it's not healthy and it's not rational, in fact I reckon it's a process of fear.

The world may be changing but don't shut down all the avenues that young folk can express themselves and/or find their place in the world. Hard as it is for older blokes to see, there is a place for fucking up and coasting along for a while.

Today's First Dog on the Moon is all quality but unable to load it here for unknown reasons ...... worth a look or if someone can upload ....

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/29/leftists-are-rewri...

@Stu

Yes i know my experience is what shapes my current views on this issue, obviously at the time i hated it when they stopped allowing me to send in forms, or made me write down more jobs etc (even though id just write business down from yellow pages), at the time i would have hated drug testing or wealth fare receipts if they had brought those things in.

But if it had been harder back then to wrought the system i would have got a job earlier and got my shit together and not burnt myself out partying which in part for me ended up in a period where i suffered severe depression.

My friends that didn't get trapped in that dole lifestyle, actually got jobs and bought a house before the boom dirt cheap, although i feel real lucky because i got a house for a decent price.

And i do admit now it would be real hard to be on the dole, it got harder when i was on the dole, especially when the work for the dole scheme started that really sucked, working for nothing even if just for one day a week sucked, it was like screw this I'm working for the dole? I might as well get a job if i have to work?

Plus it made you feel like a real loser, some of those other people there were just full dodgy, it made you reevaluate yourself, like shit I'm part of this I'm like them this is so slummy.

In hindsight i think these things pushed my friends to get jobs which then pushed me to get a job, which ultimately was a really goo thing, i have idea how long i would have been on the dole if things remained easy, i guess at some point i would have got on with life.

'They're putting socialism in the water now ...'

Sorry Indo couldn't resist.

the federal government just gave fox $30,000,000 and refuses to say why.
the qld government told adani they can take our coal without having to pay royalties

a few abuses of unemployment benefits is way down on the list of my concerns when it comes to the misune and theft of tax payers' money.

"The world may be changing but don't shut down all the avenues that young folk can express themselves and/or find their place in the world. Hard as it is for older blokes to see, there is a place for fucking up and coasting along for a while."

A good reminder Stu. Cheers.

@braudulio, yeah that made me laugh, did you read the tiny signs in the 2nd box ... Gillian Triggs Indoctrination Co-operative Compound 7 on Manus Island?

@stu, I agree people tend to become more conservative as they age but the vast majority of boomers I know are red hot angry on the mishandling of today's social and economic issues by the current government. Sure they might be sitting on an over valued house but they see the problems for their younger family members.

@indo, lot to like in your last post as it related to you but the juxtaposition of your experience to the current day is questioned. As others have said here its no walk in the park now.

Whoah Nelly! Too much, Blowie & Indy. Bullshit AND over-sharing is a heady brew!

Interesting comment Stu-bags re: that old chestnut about aging and conservatism. Fear a factor? Absolutely. I'd chuck in mental laziness as well.

As the mind drifts towards its inevitable death, the consciousness of this fact concentrates the focus. Nuance? I ain't got time. Give me black n white! I've got bigger things to worry and think about! LIKE MY IMPENDING DEATH!

And this is where the counter-intuition comes in. Conservative, nay regressive thinking hastens death! Use your brain, embrace nuance, get progressive, face change head-on! IT IS THE STUFF OF LIFE!

So, in summary, the Right = death. The Left = life.

Come to the Light.

On the hill.

Keep on keeping on, comrades.

The most interesting posts on here by far are when people tell a little part of their story in relation to a discussion topic.

Keep them coming , Indo.

It's still easily possible to be a dole bludging surfer in this day and age.

The crew I was talking about before could pull it off if they had an inkling of mojo. They are mostly non surfers though and would rather trudge through their lives of self inflicted desperation living in a squalid rental in town and paying a fair bit for the privilege.

They could be renting one of the many , many old timber farm sheds along the coast for a pittance. Acres of space in which to grow their own food - and anything else - catch fish from the river or sea.

No one to bother them . You Don't need electricity or absolute comfort.

I've done it.

It's not just possible , it's cheap, fun , interesting and very rewarding.

What do you think surfers used to do on the North and south coasts before crippling mortgages, mobile phones and 5 board quivers became de rigueur ?

Maybe it's time to rewatch Morning of the earth and remember a time when surfers thought it was cool to live in a home made treehouse.

Nat and Mctavish did it and they were the big names of the day....imagine Medina or Jordy doing it now ?

I remember seeing a really old Tracks mag with an article on how to build a $2 house. The same structure would probably still only cost a couple of hundred but it just shows how much times have changed.

Or you could live in a van like Bob on the recent Swellnet video.

The dole crew I know are maybe required to do a couple of days undemanding study at TAFE and they're left alone for 5 days a week .

Doesn't sound too hard to me.

Fuckers just need to have a go.

People on here talking about conservative thinking and using their minds .....then they lead their plodding lives of strangulating convention.

If that's what they're into then good luck . But I reckon fuck that.

Might be possible but as a phenomena the dole bludging surfer is all over red rover.

Go back 20 years and every second house in Lennox would have surfboards stacked up and a laundry sink pre-rigged with a bucket bong ready to go. House loads of doleys ready to light up and surf the Point all day.

If you could door knock every house now and find me half a dozen doleys I'd be shocked.

You'd be very lucky to find any timber farm sheds between Coolie and Angas within 50 miles of the coast for rent....maybe down the mid-north coast but not up here.

Probably nothing more has had a greater impact on the surf culture of Australia: this state sponsored program where mass groups of surfers could live spartan, bohemian lives of great richness and plenty. Nothing has had a greater impact on the standard of recreational surfing either, it was a way that people could live and do vast quantities of surfing which meant very high levels of surfing at a lot of places in Aus.

That is slipping backwards very quickly now as most people can't afford the time to spend on something like surfing all day every day.
Take a look at any suburban beach: kooksville.

There are clusters of dynastic and regional hotspots where the standard remains high, like Coolie, Lennox, Ulladulla for eg.

But mostly, without the dole, Australian surfing has gone backwards fast.

blowin's primitive communist paradise awaits all who dare cast of the comforts off bourgeous conformism.

btw: nat seems an odd example...he's been a driven entrepeneur since he was in his teens, with various media and real estate deals always on the go. sure he lived in a shack behind the coast, but he had investment properties and business deals with packer.
then agan, maybe that makes him a perfect example for the simple life...get a bag load of money first.

i'm booked in for a week at one of nat's old investment properties at angourie for the uni break.

But that's not due to the impossibility of leading a good surfing life on the dole. That's a cultural shift reflective of the hard core push towards Australians as consumers and mortgage slaves.

It's a set up.

But all it still takes is to think outside the box.

That's where surfers developed their original reputation - by tuning in and dropping out.

I don't believe there is really any more societal pressure now than there was in the 60's / 70's to conform . It's just that surfers have mostly forgotten how and the media and the cultural leaders they look to for inspiration are mostly too busy climbing the ladder of the surf industry to even contemplate chucking the whole deal out and thinking for themselves.

Surfers and surfing haven't been sterilised by the WSL or the industry ....they've done it to themselves by kowtowing to a society that wants them to shut their mouths and buy shit.

Chook ....I reckon that's the ultimate goal. You don't need a shedload of money .

Just live below your means.

Yes, there are times where we all need to just go bush for a significant period of time. Get some some surf, plenty of surf time. Then after some time, it becomes natural that one needs to create, build, produce to satisfy the purpose in life. If you talk to the Lennox, Angus old timers you will see why. But surfing is still the magnet. As time gets on, many do not become more conservative or fearful but the material essentials become easier.
Absolutely, its essential for youth to let the hair grow, the mind to expand, the experiences widened. And they still do but now in a generally more comfortable way. Life has simply become easier.

The freedom to make decisions without pressure is a great gift.

The people that I know that have the most interesting lives took a chance on themselves and followed their own path. Sometimes these paths were very controversial at the outset . But general approval followed once the direction of the path was obvious to every one else.

Success is hard to argue with.

BLOWIE! STOP! STOP! YOU'RE KILLING US!

My shack, few hundred to build.

Cheers Ben

It is much harder to surf on the dole these days, exponentially harder.

Cost of living in coastal Australia has skyrocketed with the real estate prices and the dole hasn't even kept up with inflation.

Sure , you can take over a cockroach den in some sour floodplain dump like Fredrickton and live without electrickery for fuckall a week and surf but the days of living large with high quality surf on the dole. Gone-ski.

It's a societal shift for sure.....but i don't think it came from surfers. If they/we could still afford to live and surf on the dole they would be.

beautiful!
when you said "live in a shed" i was picturing some cul de sac of soul destroying unemployment with a falling-down old cow shed.

Blowie, come on down!

Is that your whole act , Shatner ?

I post something and you say it's a lie .

Despite never having met me. Despite photographic proof and other posters on here knowing me and attesting to what I say ?

How long do you reckon you'd last at a pub pulling that stunt ?

That's the pub test.

I'm at the pub now! It's where you reckon I work, remember?

Hang on, are you talking about the joint with the dole bludgers you reckon you met/observed/drank and pulled bongs with (who remembers the twists and turns?!) ?

Was there parking for unicorns there too?

Maybe these other posters can attest and come help you out, hey? Boys? Fellas??

Hello?

*crickets*

uh oh.

emails.

faxes.

telegrams.

I can hear them coming.

southey commented MONDAY, 6 FEB 2012 at 12:14AM
Crustt ,

I can Vouch that Rye was Natural as an extreme Grommet .His extended family are close friends .

John ( his dad, ex PI local ) was quick to change this .Although if you asked Rye Today , he probably couldn't recall the last time he went right let alone master it switch .

I think tmh , is onto something . I beleive " the law ' was the First to take off at Pipe during WCT heat Switch . Apparently he wasn't that successful , but just making the drop is enough in my book ........

the best Switch from takeoff , ( apologies for not remembering names ) was a Novocastrian that had been living in Denmark WA , that due to a crook ankle couldn't ride natural stance ( pig dog ) in medium size Bluff . His Answer to this , Totally ownning it Switch from take off , (as most are aware the bluff is a pretty fast wave from deep , plus a tight Tube ) , so his switch foot pumping and tube adjustments were exceptional to watch . All whilst being almost too sore to walk out there ............
" SA's Reserve Capacity "

southey wrote: Hey blowin .
Were u living around Walpole WA in 2001 , we may have met and surfed together at the bluff in Sept-Oct that year , as u were passing through to work up in the mines ?!
You had a crook ankle ? And your originally from Newy or somewhere similar in NSW . ?!?
Southy, Where were you camped in 2001 ?I would have been on my way to Kunnunara maybe. You been back to Bluff ? 2001 was great fun. Every time is the best time though.

I saw a post to Karl B about fishing for pinkies out of there. No fish at Quobba mate...cough cough. It's a shame what's going down there . Have you seen Karl lately ?