the world according to John Fiske
Reckon this thread has legs, TT?
I'd just got out of my second surf for the day when I read it . Hell fun rights that ran for a loooong time.
And seeing as it's my Birthday I adjourned immediately to a bowlo right nearby for a schooner and flathead/ chips /salad combo. Opened the iPad and was confronted with the above .
You'd have to say that surfing yourself to a standstill followed by a countery and a schooey was representative of our culture.
I don't think that is a result of any grubby , industrial materialism.
Cheers .
Three cheers to you Blowin. You realise Grant Hackett is your star-crossed brother? Keep your duds on mate.
Grant Hackett ?
Here's a cultural reference - Is Jack McCoy's " Blue Horizon " the best surf movie of all time ?
Not my favourite, but the best ?
The movie you'd show to non surfer to convey the beauty , joy , characters and relentless addiction of the entire lifestyle ?
Then you've got the fact that it's just fundamentally a pleasure to watch .
McCoy's sensual waveriding visuals - yes, sensual - coupled with his exploration of the surfing life with its blue lineups , athleticism, high energy , respected lineage and radical party lifestyle also documents the culture of surfing for its disciples like no one else .
And this is his unheralded magnum opus.
Did I go too far ?
Sick movie.
Watch it .
Pants on. Lost em before. Not the crowd pleaser I was hoping for.
TT - You're off chops !
What is that shit ?
Couldn't say. Never seen it. Apologies Jack, if you're reading this.
I recently had the idea to review McCoy's four films of the early/mid 90s: Bunyip Dreaming, Green Iguana, Sik Joy, and Sons of Fun, and wrap a bit of context around them - perhaps even a bit of cultural context! You know, what they owed to the future, and what the future owes to them. Might even bridge it with the concept of surf movie as bulwark against the tide of grubby industrial materialism.
Johnno Friske would abide.
A slab of post-modern lager thanks!
Email me your address and I'll send the entire McCoy collection to you tomorrow.
The Billy movies, Blue horizon , Occumentary.
The man is well worthy of any respect you bestow on him .
I think I have got the hang of this thread now. Jack McCoy, through-out his oeuvre, was contesting the social structure within mainstream surfing of domination and subordination.
Generous offer Blowin, but I actually have it. Somewhere along the way I scored all McCoy's films, some of them in flash limited edition packaging. So the reason I haven't seen it isn't omission but time, I suppose.
Recently had a great chat with Jack about his undying love for Al Byrne's craftsmanship. Mr McCoy has a few.
And TT, you ever feel there's a point when the language describing such concepts is inadequate? When the concepts and the debates surrounding them become so esoteric, so specific and finely honed, that the ambiguity in the words is bound to misrepresent them?
I can think a thought and be satisfied, but any written description of it is insufficient.
So Turkey, considering that Ann C. Tyler said that "the goal of all communication is "to induce in the audience some belief about the past..., the present..., or the future,"' where are we at when the dominant classes control the means by which meaning is disseminated and therefore controls not only the narrative but the response to the narrative?
And at the same time, in Stuart Hall's essay 'Culture, community, nation' that appeared in the October 1993 issue of Cultural Studies, the author shows how arguments made with a progressive political agenda sometimes converge argumentatively and epistemologically with those of the conservative right in their failure to decenter normative assumptions derived from the entelechy of Western European history about ethnic and religious aspirations.
I believe we see the ramifications of this in politics today.
No doubt about that Andy, please go on.
Oh, I could BB but I think you get the general idea! Faaark...
You gotta laugh though.
any chance this thread be moved to "Website troubleshooting". my scroll bar went straight to the bottom when i opened the page.
oh jeez, i'm surrounded by cultural studies fiends wherever i go...
are there any logicians at all on this site?
i'll take that as a "no" then.
so, it follows that the culture of cultural studies is ideological, inscribed in its practices, right?
No doubt - the basis of the convergence between the pair of terms under examination (culture and ideology) is that they both embrace non-material aspects of human existence relating to the subjective realm of ideas, values, world-views, and cosmologies, the very stuff of human history.
so TT, what is the bot you are using to generate this stuff? hats off to the programmers, it's a beauty.
can you run this on other thinkers/theories? or is it just for cultural studies?
The issue of ideology is a very important proposition in Marxist theory. In the course of their scientific exploration to establish historical materialism and in their critique of the whole of capitalist society and culture, as represented by Germany, Marx and Engels always treated materialist inquiries into ideological issues as the focus of their struggle with idealism.
By adhering to the fundamental intellectual principle that man’s social being determines his social consciousness, they defined ideology’s reactive mechanism and social function in terms of the interrelationship of economic, political and mental life; defined its subjective mechanism and class attributes in terms of the mutually generative and prescriptive relations between social consciousness and social entities; and defined its cognitive features and its character of practicality in terms of the forms of existence of social consciousness and the relationship of knowing and doing.
From this they constructed three dimensions and nine perspectives for interpreting ideological phenomena and clarified intellectual tenets and a scientific methodology for understanding ideology.
At the same time, to find a pragmatic exit from the semantic labyrinth surrounding ‘ideology’ and ‘culture’, we should consider the neutral connotations of ‘ideology’ as a formative, intrinsically paradoxical, constituent of culture, and argue that the heterogeneous, volatile, and contested nature of all ideologies when viewed through some postmodernist lenses is acceptable only under the historically exceptional societal conditions of high modernity.
I need a Gramsci right now...
wow,,,,,, theres 20 minutes of my life I wont get back. We're not going to be tested on this next week are we? As a self confessed philistine you lost me at culture.
And they said this thread would never make it...
Turkey, an overarching concept which both encompasses and surpasses notions of white, male patriarchy, despite how transparent this patriarchy may be when viewed through a feminist lens, is the one which Marx proved to the world:
“…all man’s juristic, political, philosophical, religious and other ideas are derived in the last resort from his economic conditions of life, from his mode of production and of exchanging the product.”
This general idea constitutes the fundamental concept of the materialist theory of social structure and the general rationale when we talk about ideological issues.
.
All this high falutin talk of the drivers of society without reference to that greatest of all philosophers - Charles Darwin.
Nature abhors weakness.
Power flows to those with strength.
Deal with your faux guilt and appreciate your day in the sun as nature also shows us that all and everything is cyclical.
Today's rooster is tomorrow's feather duster so don't feel free to enjoy it......while it lasts.
blowin, the darwinian idea of natural selection that you paraphrase as "Nature abhors weakness" applies to nature. society is a different matter. darwin didn't have anything to say on society. but "Darwin's bulldog" TH Huxley does.
humans live in a society and this is where moraility comes into the picture (there is no morality in nature and natural selection). we set society up in certain ways (well marx would say the means of production set society up in a certain, i guess) and how we set it society rewards some and punishes other, independently of natural selection and whether a person would be weak or strong in nature.
the hedge fund manager in connecticut worth 20 billion to his name is probably riddled with weakness that nature would abhor.
so any way, the Nature abhors weakness argument has no bearing here. power does not flow to those that have strength, but to those that society has set up in its favour.
...not that any of that matters really -...today's rooster..tomorrow's feather dust holds true...wheel of fortune and all that.
You don't believe that the wealthiest in society are amongst the most powerful ?
Pretty sure I could take out Trump in a physical altercation .....but you think that'll happen ?
Society is a human construct and society adheres to the laws of nature due to the fact that they are immutable.
Darwin was an inadvertent philosopher , but an entirely emphatic one.
The strong take and the weak accept what they are given.
Identity politics is a disengenous distraction originating with the old tactic of divide and conquer.
The demise of the left as a contradictory force of the capitalist powers was set as they sowed the seeds of division amongst themselves that grew to become the current culture wars between the natural allies of the working class and the disenfranchised minorities.
Our common enemy has sown the seeds of division between us .
As everyone is realising, the real battle lies between the haves and the have nots.
Identity politics is a ploy. Full stop.
the grim reaper is my enemy
As someone who studies 'cultural studies' I can say I understand all that TT is copying and pasting lol. However, it can be said much more simply
Culture is not just a group of people with shared customs (an anthropological view) but a lively process of ongoing negotiation and production of meaning in different settings, where the settings themselves are not fixed and change more rapidly than ever before. Culture is not just for the elite (i.e. 'high culture' - see opera, literature, etc), as the marxist Raymond Williams wrote: 'Culture is Ordinary'. We all negotiate, produce and find meaning with what resources we have at hand. So, popular culture is also important to how we form and negotiate meaning and should be paid attention to e.g. how surfing is important to us and is one avenue we work out our values and arrange our lives. Of course, what should be valued and what should not and which meaning should be prioritised or not is debated because there are competing personal interests and institutional forces (e.g. gender, race, etc.). So, culture (meaning-making) is political e.g. there is no 'one' surf culture, or what women experience through surfing can be different to men. Currently, culture happens in the shadow of and is affected by the operations of capitalism. So, this is explored by cultural studies folk. Some people contest this capitalism by using its own cultural products against it e.g. what punk very briefly did before capitalism managed to absorb it and put it to work in the service of capital. Or how surfing at one stage had 'counter-culture' possibilities but has now become a perfect vehicle for capitalism with its faux 'rebellion', 'alternative lifestyle', etc. Cultural Studies is effectively politically orientated towards the left, although there is also anarchist cultural studies.
Now, go surfing. That's what cultural studies folk would advocate. Fuck capitalism.
Culture, Ideology, Interpellation