The hypocrisy of the U.S.A
One attacks "illegal aliens"...... They scream, they protest, they burn cars, with good reason I must say..... But another attacks "illegal aliens".... He get's a standing ovation..
Gotta love the fuckery..
Sheepy, your Manichean tendencies defeat your position.
"Here it is/ BAM/ and you say Goddamn"
One of the best songs from one of the best albums of the modern era Gobbler.
Anyhow, I had to come back to this piece from Blindboy because it still makes me retch with its complete lack of awareness and total hypocrisy.
This essay
- criticises nationalism
- crows about how the U.S. loves democracy
- gushes over how America values liberalism
I still can't believe the old Blindboy was serious, I reckon he's having a chuckle somewhere.
https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-twilight-of-the-liberal-world-order/
No doubt that post makes sense in some alternative universe Andy, but until you put in an effort to explain your position you can't seriously expect me to respond with anything more than than this.
Considering that the topic is the hypocrisy of the U.S.A. it's pretty obvious what I'm saying.
If I really need to dig through the issues of American patriotic sentiment, America's attitude to overthrowing democratically elected governments and the related issue of America's view on liberty and equality, then you're either
i) wilfully ignorant
ii) too far gone
or iii) taking the piss
Let me help you out BB. The U.S. has overthrown at least 7 democratically elected governments.
And that list doesn't include Australia, though maybe it should.
What does that say about American hypocrisy regarding democratic values as espoused by the author of the Brookings Institute article?
Let me help you out again, it says plenty.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/20/mapped-the-7-governments-the-u-s-has...
https://www.crikey.com.au/2015/11/25/rundle-proving-the-cia-backed-consp...
"Ram it up your cunt, Anita!"
https://libcom.org/history/1977-80-gay-activists-boycott-orange-juice
BB writes "Sheepy, your Manichean tendencies defeat your position."
That's it????? That's all you have to say? Attack my "position"? Nothing on Clinton's speech? BB?? Not a word? Just a personal dig at me? This is where the likes of Blowin lose their shit at you.... But You'll need to do better than that to get under my skin, BB....
You may just march on with your "non duality stance".... But I'm of the sort of guy, that when something has fucked up, or fallen apart, you need to find out HOW it fucked up..... Only then can you fix it. And years upon years of U.S democratic party hypocrisy has led to this moment of Trump.... And if the democrats continue to blurt instead of soul search, it will get even worse for not only the USA, but the whole world.
Blindboy speaking of Manichean tendencies, I'm going to go out on a limb here - I suspect that you see the U.S. as the shining light of righteousness, the only true upholder of liberal democratic values - as long as the Democrats are in power.
The Republicans on the other hand, pure evil, right?
And of course Trump takes it to another level.
Tell me where I'm wrong.
Beneath your enlightened facade I think that you have exceptionally binary views.
You want beef?
On the subject of the thread, the US are obviously massive hypocrites (but then what country isn't). That's just politics 101. Like China accusing the US of aggression whilst peacefully invading Tibet & the numerous contested reefs & islands, or the ALP blaming the Libs for killing manufacturing despite wage inflation pricing us out of the industry years beforehand, its simply how it works.
The US talks about peace & freedom whilst providing the world with endless weapons to fan the fires of war & saving countries by invading them and reducing their economies to rubble. A handy ally to have if you're being invaded, not so much if you're asked to participate in these invasions.
Economically I'm surprised they didn't flex their muscles a lot earlier than this. As the biggest country (consumption wise) on earth a lot of other countries have a parasitic relationship with them. We all need them so much more than they need us. So they get to pick & choose what rules they follow. Other countries have employed much more drastic protectionist policies so why would the US continue to play ball at their own expense?
Gaz, i'd put money on it that Liechtenstein are massive hypocrites... But they aren't "the leader of the free world".... If they were, the heading of my thread would be different.
Gaz I completely accept that all countries are hypocritical.
Having said that, of course we should call them out on it (including our own country). One of my bigger issues is when people swallow propaganda, specifically U.S. propaganda, without questioning it. Naturally this is particularly important as U.S. media controls a huge amount of what we consume in Australia.
The power of hegemony can be amazing.
Also I think it's important to realise that the U.S. have been flexing their economic muscles for a long time, from involvement in the Opium Wars in China in the mid 1800s to the United Fruit Company in Central America in the 1950s (and its involvement with the CIA) to all the more recent sanctions against countries who don't want to "play ball" as the Yanks say.
Also, what Sheepy said above.
As the "leaders of the free world" I guess its hard to argue that they've ever really lead by example, especially with some of the points listed by AndyM. That's also not to mention the more recent wars in Vietnam & Korea which both conveniently were on China's doorstep, and also had CIA snooping around.
It'll be interesting to see just how aggressive the negotiating is now that Trump wants new FTA's with a few countries, especially considering he seems to be negotiating with a gun in one hand with a few other countries at the moment.
"Oh, say can you see...?"
https://libcom.org/history/annexation-hawaii-1893
https://libcom.org/history/us-takeover-puerto-rico-1898
https://libcom.org/history/us-imperialism-cuba-1898-1901
https://libcom.org/history/us-conquest-philippines-1898-1902
https://libcom.org/history/us-orchestrated-overthrow-nicaraguan-governme...
"The great nations have always acted like gangsters, and the small nations like prostitutes. (Stanley Kubrick)"
Always been the best summation of international politics that I have read.
For sheer hypocrisy, nothing quite made me vomit quite like George Bush Jnr's "they hate us for our freedom" speech, sometime around the Iraq War II.
Well that right, turkmanistan... Imagine if back then there was an internet, a billion phone camera's and millions of pundits...... It always leads me back to Jay Rockefeller...
Perhaps I should've named this thread the hypocrisy of the usa AND Australia....
From Andrew Blert;
"Although the Prime Minister’s office refused to comment further on the deal, US officials privately have made no secret that Australia would ultimately be expected to reciprocate, most likely on issues of force commitment to Iraq and Syria in the fight against Islamic State or freedom-of-navigation exercises in the South China Sea..."
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/what-has-turnbull-paid-for...
So......... I'd like to ask some of the anti refugee folk here, if our brave men and women are sent to Iraq, and we suffer casualties, all because of having to meet this "deal" to get Manus island refugees to the USA, how will you feel? Or if we have to perform naval exercises in the south china sea, and China sinks one of our ships, killing hundreds, again, how will you feel?
As to the second paragraph, Sheepy - what a load of shit.
It was never propositioned as an option to send those on Manus to the USA , so why would anyone be responsible other than the politicians selling our future for a deal of political convenience ?
In other news, seems Trump is ready to let the US economy take precedent over alliance with the EU. But then again business has never been the place to seek friendship.
As a comment in another forum states :
"Basically, the US has gone overnight from a coercive empire to an openly belligerent one, willing to shed its democracy and allies in an ill conceived, clumsy, and futile gyration to reverse the economic evolution that management did nothing to adapt to for decades. "
So positive or negative ?
Project US economic strength without fear of conflating the issue regarding alliances, or subjugate the economic prerogative with making nice to allies ?
Can't you see that Trump is the ego face of humanity. Trump like the ego only cares about itself and seeks self gain and gratification regardless of what happens to others because it believes it is separate from those so called others. Allies only exist to fulfill it's needs. It will justify any action to protect itself and it's points of view. The very walls and defence's it puts in place will however become it's prison and just like the ego eventually learns, Trump and the USA will have to work with the others to have a sustainable life.
SD. not sure why you'd ask how people would feel in such scenarios. it seems to presuppose that the loss of military lives was in vain. personally i think we should probably stay out of the SCS and leave it to the US. china is little threat to anyone other than first home buyers. as for the middle east, well I have a different position there.
Agree dave
"As to the second paragraph, Sheepy - what a load of shit.
It was never propositioned as an option to send those on Manus to the USA , so why would anyone be responsible other than the politicians selling our future for a deal of political convenience ?"
Ummm, the only shit I can smell is your breath, big fella... " so why would anyone be responsible other than the politicians " you ask...... Well back in the heady days of the "Abbott Stop the boats Australia" of 2013 to 2015, the amount of pressure put on both parties by everyday Australians to NOT allow these people to come here was immense... For example, one blogger named blowin wrote this (I googled "swellnet blowin Nauru")
"Heartless Australians - providing accommodation , food , medical, support services , legal services , free education and cash money to a lady for a couple of years till it was proven she was not a refugee , merely someone that would prefer to reside in Australia.
Probably get paid a tidey lump sum to repatriate as well.
All courtesy of the Aussie taxpayer.
Courtesy of the minority percent of Aussies that are net taxpayers anyway.
Monstrous Australians.....have they no heart ?"
That's just one example of thousands, maybe millions of posts putting pressure on these politicians... This pressure has respawned Hanson.... It has created "patriots".... It created an atmosphere where no one blinked an eye when Our government knocked back NZ's offer to take them....
So Blowin, the majority owns this situation, you included..... Yeah you can call it shit.... And you're right in a way.....
Well done, mate..... Now we possibly owe Big Donny....
“Iraq is on the front line of the war on terrorism,” the parliament’s foreign committee said in a statement Monday. “It is unfair that the Iraqis are treated in this way.”
http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-iraq-trump-20170130-story....
Sheepy, so you focused on an example of an illegal immigrant with zero justification or entitlement to settle here - and she still wound up here .
I was saying she should go back to Iran. Or fucking anywhere to tell you the truth. I guess It's all cool that she is here now - but what of the 2,000,000,000 poverty stricken punters that wish to emulate her succesful migration to a better place ie Australia ?
Or should we just let everyone from Iran / Bangladesh/Nigeria etc etc settle here cause Australia looks nicer for them ?
Answer that question .
And how does that make me in any way complicit with ceding any strategic alliance with the US ?
Are you telling me there is only one alternative for our poor politicians and that swapping illegal immigrants with the US is the best possible solution....personally I'd say it's amongst the worst.
PS. Not that I'm not for strategic alliances with the US.....
PPS Your ability to conflate topics is really impressive , Sheepy. Must be somewhere you could apply the skill of attempting to convince people that they're thinking one thing when their minds are set on another.
You ever thought of advertising as a career ?
Agreed Happyass - get all foreign forces out of Iraq.
A not "Trumpsclusive" thread... Discussion on the democrats welcome ,too. A thread to criticise, defend, and ignore.