What's what?

Indo writes "And once again this is not my own unique view, its the default view shared by most."

I couldn't give a fuck how many people hold a view. Drowning women who collected herbs was the majority view in Salem. Just coz the majority held that view didn't make it right. The privatisation of essential services (like electricity) being a GOOD THING was the majority view... How's that going?
I could give another example, but there would be howls of "godwins law".
So fuck the majority view. Long live the correct view, and those strong enough to argue it.

That's not the point, not saying if it's right or wrong, Herc is just trying to paint me as this freak that is out their alone in my views.

I mean we are talking cryptocurrencies I'm not going to lie i only got into it for the money and some fun. (like people do gambling)

But the whole point for many in the cryptocurrency community is the anti traditional banking, anti government thing, anti centralisation thing, it's all done anomously generally on overseas exchanges.

It's kind of goes against the whole point of it all in a way, if you are going to be part of the system and declare all your trades etc when you don't need too.

Been away from this one for a few days and all hell broke loose. These forums truly are unique. It's Blowin's comment that most piqued my interest:

"After my ancestors were forcibly removed from their families and transported to another continent they struggled to overcome the trauma of the episode. Factor in that the entire premise of their punishment was based upon an insidious class war resulting from the advent of the Industrial Age and one must indeed question if the rise of industry was a good or a bad thing at all."

That would be the Enclosure Acts. It seems that village life in England was very much more communal before, and there was a wholesale "subdivision and fencing of common land into individual plots which were allocated to those people deemed to have held rights to the land enclosed." Was it to convert to land for large graziers? Whichever, suddenly deprived of land on which to farm, stealing a pheasant from the Lord's estate saw a one way trip to Port Arthur, or worse Sarah Island. These people had their land nicked too.

http://www.thelandmagazine.org.uk/articles/short-history-enclosure-britain

Beautiful vignette of how the commons worked in that article, how it was overtaken, and where this stopped.

'So Herc is basically putting the blame on intergenerational trauma.

Look even if it was an effect.'

No, the experts, genuinely concerned in the field, who expertly and thoroughly, and painstakingly investigate the heinous situation are.

Because you are 'so interested' your delusional information retrieval 'skills'( sic), went out the window mysteriously, insidiously, when the 'Halls Creek' situation completely refuted your racist ideas. The grey areas around limiting alcohol and domestic violence, occur because of actually managing to limit its access, as a form of self medication. This situation is worsening all over the country, due to the new breed of drugs, ice etc.

'Because of the strong correlation between methamphetamine use and domestic violence, studies indicate that the integration of individual and couple-based domestic violence interventions into treatment programs is needed.'
https://www.elementsbehavioralhealth.com/addiction/meth-paranoia-domesti...

You, dreamer, a delusional racist, 'wivs me farkin' lyfe expeeryances oye', sleezily pass over anything, from countless expert sources, that doesn't equal 'ditch yar farked upp culchar aye!!!'

'Family violence is worse for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people

Family violence occurs at higher rates for Indigenous Australians than for non-Indigenous Australians. Family violence within Indigenous communities needs to be understood as both a cause and effect of social disadvantage and intergenerational trauma (ABS 2016).'
https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/domestic-violence/family-domestic-sexual...

'Manifestations of Historical Trauma

Internalized Oppression

As the result of historical trauma, traumatized people may begin to internalize the views of the oppressor and perpetuate a cycle of self-hatred that manifests itself in negative behaviors. Emotions such as anger, hatred, and aggression are self-inflicted, as well as inflicted on members of one’s own group.'
https://www.umsl.edu/services/cps/files/ross-presentation.pdf

'Have you ever heard the term 'intergenerational trauma'? Not understanding what intergenerational trauma is and how it can impact individuals, families and communities can leave many people wondering why Indigenous Australians can’t just “get over it” and “move on”.

Learning about intergenerational trauma can help us see how events of our shared past continue to impact many Indigenous people today, and can shed light on the complexity of the situation in many Indigenous families and communities.
So what's intergenerational trauma?

Trauma is generally understood as a person’s response to a major catastrophic event that's so overwhelming it leaves that person unable to come to terms with it.[1] In some cases, trauma is passed down from the first generation of survivors who directly experienced or witnessed traumatic events to future generations.[2] This is referred to as intergenerational trauma, and can be passed on through parenting practices, behavioural problems, violence, harmful substance use and mental health issues.[3]
Why and how does intergenerational trauma affect Indigenous Australians?

Indigenous people in Australia have experienced trauma as a result of colonisation, including the associated violence and loss of culture and land, as well as subsequent policies such as the forced removal of children. In many Indigenous families and communities, this trauma continues to be passed from generation to generation with devastating effects. Research shows that people who experience trauma are more likely to engage in self-destructive behaviours, develop life-style diseases and enter and remain in the criminal justice system.

The high rates of poor physical health, mental health problems, addiction, incarceration, domestic violence, self harm and suicide in Indigenous communities are directly linked to experiences of trauma. These issues are both results of historical trauma and causes of new instances of trauma which together can lead to a vicious cycle in Indigenous communities.[4]'
https://www.australianstogether.org.au/discover/the-wound/intergeneratio...

'Professional clinicians and human services providers are increasingly attributing the mental health problems of American Indians (AIs) to historical trauma (HT). As an alternative to established psychiatric disorders, AI HT was formulated to explain enduring mental health disparities as originating in tribal experiences of Euro-American colonization. As a result, AI 'HT has been described as the collective, cumulative, and intergenerational psychosocial disability resulting from massive group-based oppression, such as forced relocation, political subjugation, cultural domination, and genocide. One objective of the HT construct is to frame AI distress and dysfunction in social and historical terms. Given widespread indigenous experiences of colonization, the debilitating effects of HT are presumed to affect most AI communities today.'
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1363461513489722

'Thus it seems that Elie Wiesel (1978) was correct in stating that “time does not
heal all wounds; there are those that remain painfully open” (p. 222). While Holocaust
survivors and their families made every effort to continue their lives without being
constantly reminded of the terrible events of the past, traumatic memories kept
returning with all their accompanying emotions. As Judith Herman (1992) pointed out
in her book Trauma and Recovery; ”atrocities refuse to be buried” (p. 1). They keep
penetrating the conscious and unconscious minds of the survivors and their offspring
until they are properly remembered, mourned and worked through within a safe, healing
relationship.'
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.623.9640&rep=re...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-me-in-we/201205/how-trauma-i...

'Probably worth taking a minute or two and giving feedback, personally I'm telling them happy to pay tax on profit when cashing out, but impossible to keep track of trades etc.'

'Tell me why i should pay tax on trades when end of the day i might even cash out at a loss, so you expect me to pay tax on my own money and a loss?

Do you think people are that stupid?

100% if i cash out at a profit, I'm happy to pay tax on the profit but not a loss or my own money that I've already paid tax on.

And once again this is not my own unique view, its the default view shared by most.'

'It's kind of goes against the whole point of it all in a way, if you are going to be part of the system and declare all your trades etc when you don't need too.'

Yes I think you are one of the most stupid, delusional people I have come across. The above is beyond stupidity, and so delusional, it is pertinent as it highlights your delusional 'thought' (sic) process. but first, as a self proclaimed, intermediate level trader now turned investor (FFS) you dodged the issue of how you use no money management/capital protection strategies at all, but that you would simply, 'tell the kids I went down with ship'. Beyond ludicrous.

https://www.swellnet.com/forums/wax/381069?page=16

You will be required by the ATO, to provide comprehensive records detailing all transactions, in fact every detail of every cost entailed when trading. You will be taxed on any profit, and as an intermediate level trader, you will pay capital gains tax. Unless you defraud the ATO. Or unless, which is the reality, you are a fucking geek, with no fucking profits, or so minimal profits, that there is no capital gain.

Not to mention that record keeping is integral to being an actual successful, intermediate trader, come investor.

I don't blame you for wanting to defraud the ATO, with its pitiful charade of equality. But others see it much differently. They see it this way, that you are guilty of treason, a downright criminal!

Indigenous Australians are suggesting something infinitely better.

'Australia could achieve absolute decolonisation and shared sovereignty and live up to the reputation we like to have, as a nation deeply concerned with human rights and social justice.

It is wrong-headed to think of “embracing” Indigenous peoples. Those with a western heritage must relinquish their arrogance, rewrite the distortions of their history, and place Indigenous interests at the forefront of social, economic and political concern.

We need to look beyond symbols to restitution: compensation, reparations and resource sharing. Indigenous peoples, through seeking a treaty, invite us to share in building an honourable future. Surely we can agree that Australia is worth it.'
https://theconversation.com/indigenous-treaties-are-meaningless-without-...

No place for delusional, racist criminals.

Hey VJ - Bit of an inconvenient truth for Swellnet’s resident bigot and indigenophile that one. The fact that the ancestors of many white Australians were victimised and treated in the virtually the exact same pitiful manner as black Australians during the same period of history by the same political and social elite is incongruous with his fictional portrayal of all Whiteys and their culture as a whole as evil , bloodthirsty and dominating.

You know the one thing i don't understand about this forum.

Is why did Talking Turkey/Shatner'sBassoon get banned but Herc doesn't???

Herc brings nothing positive here at all (okay maybe some odd post on helping some dude with fitness or something) other than that, he is worse and more negative that Talking Turkey/Shanter.

Constantly baiting and stirring (and yes I'm stupid enough to take the bait)

Personal attacks even based on ethnicity/ancestry, constant abuse and name calling.

In many forums you will get kicked out for even changing your name/handle because basically there is no need too unless you have some dodgy motive, Herc is on at least his third Herc, Uplift, Crypto Knight the last an obvious attempt to just troll the Bitcoin thread.

And yes i did at first think it was some new guy into crypto, until i clicked with the lame Superman kryptonite thing.

Anyway I'm going to do my best to not feed the troll, I'm up for a discussion, I'm up for a healthy debate, i don't mind taking it and giving it a little, like me a Sheepdog often do, but constant endless bitching and name calling, just gets old real quick especially when i know I'm doing it with some guy that is old enough to be my dad.

Yesterday there was no post from Herc and you know i actually kind of enjoyed it.

Blowin you are wrong in that comment. How many of those transported witnessed their families being massacred? How many saw their whole society collapse? Most convicts, once they had served their time, had the opportunity to find a place in colonial society. They may have been treated unjustly but they were not the survivors of genocide. As for Crypto, I think he serves a valuable purpose in keeping our attention on the running sore in Australian culture. ...... our inability to achieve true reconciliation. You don't have to agree with everything he says but you don't have to argue every point either.

Of course you enjoyed bullshitting your racist propaganda at will dreamer. I couldn't care less if you crap on about being an 'intermediate' trader (insidiously dodged capital management again), spieling expert (but no idea), advice to others. But so determinedly crapping on about what happened and is happening to Indigenous Australians, so insultingly, and ignorantly, is intolerable, and disgusting. The bitcoin thing is very interesting, and a good illustration, because you are so far from being at 'intermediate' level, yet likewise, so determinedly delusional about that, as to not even acknowledge the very basics, that it is pertinent and ludicrous.

Perhaps if the west hadn't irrefutably, factually brutalized so many Cultures across the world in its collapse after collapse brute force bloodbath, it wouldn't be viewed as a brutal, blood stained culture, and it wouldn't be irrefutable fact, that so many innocent Cultures are reeling from the heinous effects. That heinous shit, included handing their home, their land over to anyone else, including 'convicts', who weren't labelled and treated as less than human, and vermin, like Indigenous Australians.

https://www.homeloanexperts.com.au/blog/infographics/history-land-grants...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-12/property-has-been-about-status-and...

We should embrace the totally innocent Indigenous Australians forgiveness, truly acknowledge their situation, as well as their unequaled success, and all that encompasses, and jump at chance at the much better outcome they are proposing.

'Australia could achieve absolute decolonisation and shared sovereignty and live up to the reputation we like to have, as a nation deeply concerned with human rights and social justice.

It is wrong-headed to think of “embracing” Indigenous peoples. Those with a western heritage must relinquish their arrogance, rewrite the distortions of their history, and place Indigenous interests at the forefront of social, economic and political concern.

We need to look beyond symbols to restitution: compensation, reparations and resource sharing. Indigenous peoples, through seeking a treaty, invite us to share in building an honourable future. Surely we can agree that Australia is worth it.'

https://theconversation.com/indigenous-treaties-are-meaningless-without-...

Indo D don’t forget the time he was posting as Pickachu also. :-0

'Lassie' was the quickest to get shafted. And, 'Two Words' got splattered for seeing a guy shred in bombs from hell on a twinny for years on end. And bringing up how Richo won that barrel riding comp on a twinny, that he reckons was the best board ever in the barrel.

Still, none of them identities, as the lil', 'play misty for me', double decker blowie so vigorously points out, committed treason, like his delusional dreamer, by undermining the democratically voted taxation system. Suddenly in this case, the double decker blowie is all 'ok with subjugating rule of law based on the reasoning of a self elected and self righteous few'!!!? Yet, next he spiels, 'what’s the state of mind of the person making these decisions that subjugate the person that was officially selected to make the decisions'.

Fish batons flying through the red mist should have rung the alarm bells, and would have, if it wasn't for zennies blubberin' blinding stupe. Again. Boot the treasonous, fucked up, ludicrous, delusional little fuckers out. In a nutshell.

Really Pickachu?...i missed that one..probably just thought it was another crazy poster

Who said Talking Turkey/Shatner's Bassoon got banned?

I thought they did, didn't you tell them to never post here again as basically banned (maybe not the banned word) and since have never been back..might even be in this thread.

No.

I see everyone is checked in nice and early this morning

Not much time to post at present, but:

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2018/09/time-alt-left/

Is worth a read, as are the comments. "It's time for an alt-left" - this would appeal to many of you posting in this thread I think. Article is good in that it describes exactly how working classes in Western societies have been shafted, and sketches out a way forward for them independent of the virture signalling identity politics that now dominate, and do nothing to improve their position. We might get a pro environmental party again?

The essential point that seems to have eluded the author of that article is that the US had the wealth and social capital to deal with the labour market disruption caused by globalisation. Instead successive governments chose to ignore the problems. How the left gets the blame for this is hard to work out as the last leftish government program in the US was the New Deal. The alt-right, for all its rhetoric is the worst enemy of those displaced from the labour market. What is desperately needed in the US are policies that lift wages at the bottom and increase taxes at the top. I don't hear Bannon or anyone else on that side of politics proposing those things. Protectionism and restricting immigration will only make the existing problems worse.

Restricting immigration will only make low wages worse !

Are you drunk , BB ?

For instance - The USA has a population many times larger than Australia but it’s tradies are paid much less . Why ? Because cheap immigrant labour undercuts any attempt at wages increase. Unless you believe that at over 325 , 000,000 people that the US economy needs more people to survive ?

In which case we , in Australia , are destined to fail with our meagre population. Of course the fact that Aussie trades were well payed in the 1970’s when our population was half what it is now reveals that theory to be utter bullshit.

I haven’t read the article yet but I can say that the left got distracted by the identity politics garbage and lost all idea of its raison d’etre completely.

Identify politics fractured the unified workers and put them to infighting rather than taking on the true enemy that is avaricious Capital.

Nah, that's the wrong way around, at least here in Oz.

Identity politics didn't fracture the left. Identity politics, despite how it's portrayed now, began as a noble cause. It became another fight about fairness after the great labour project ended.

Simply put, Labor was a victim of its own success when traditional left voters rose above the working class and became middle class, no longer beholden to worker issues.

'Left' issues then became human rights issues - what people now call identity politics - because the old left was out buying plasma teles and second and third cars with the sudden appearance of disposable income. Anyone else that was still hanging on was squashed by Work Choices and Howard's rampant attack on organised labour. 

Remember, for a great many years, all the way through Howard in fact, none of the issues in the article were part of the national discourse.

If you're gonna look back, do it fairly.

Actually the great stand off between labour and capital never left . The workers were perennially beholden to worker issues. Some Australians - especially those with a Sydney or Melbourne centric mindset were temporarily “ successful “ when house prices first started rising and they all thought they were rich ....before the downside of overpriced housing was overtly apparent or discussed .

During those days I was at the front lines of the labour/ capital war and was constantly reminded by those older crew that had won some of the early victories for the workers that any gains face constant erosion without vigilance.

The battle never ended and so the workers never established a comprehensive defeat of Capital .

So the issues weren’t part of the national discourse but they made up a huge part of life in the places where precedents of workers rights were set. Unfortunately the left had become Sydney / Melbourne centric and took their eyes off the ball.

I guess you’re correct from your perspective, but from my perspective and the perspective of those that truly relied on the left to champion their cause , they had lost the connection with the working class and dropped us for more exotic fare .

The plight of the workers never went away , it’s just that it was easy to ignore for the new left leaders who were raised in universities and young labour programs rather than graduating from the workforce. They used and distorted the Labor platform to obtain power . The Labor party morphed into the pisstake it is now.

The leadership of the left holds greater responsibility for the direction than any worker success.

And that’s why voting Labor is over for myself.

Ah well, disagree with some of that but different perspectives is probably the key point.

Kinda funny that I've got 'Not Dead Yet', Mark Latham's Quarterly Essay about Labor's post left future sitting on my desk here, and Latham has somehow forgotten all he wrote in the book and is positioning himself as an economic nationalist and working class saviour.

Same as Donald Trump representing the working class while giving tax cuts to the top end of town.

Crazy times...

Restricting immigration reduces growth in GDP which reduces jobs. I didn't say wages specifically. My point is that with reasonable policies the US would not have ended up with a permanently unemployed underclass and people working 50 or 60 hours a week and still not making it over the poverty line. Australia's social policies are not perfect but the reason we do not have those problems to the same degree is that we have reasonable minimum wages and welfare and training systems. In the US most of this toxic social policy traces back to the Republicans and their various loony offshoots. Why consider evidenced based policies when you can just stick to the same narrow ideology that has been failing for decades.

Suggest you get a copy of Joe Bageant's book DEER HUNTING WITH JESUS - dispatches from America's class war - simply put, a great and illuminating read.

Today outside federal parliament
That truck belongs to a group of farmers wanting action on climate change.

you’d laugh if it wasn’t true

https://www.betootaadvocate.com/entertainment/scomo-excuses-himself-from...

The truth stranger than fiction.
Rupert probably told Morrison to get his house in order as he doesn't want to go to an early election.

Rupert probably told Morrison that he was going on the front cover of the Daily Terrorgraph - "Great Scott, Australia needs a Morrison"

You couldn't make this stuff up. The age of satire is dead, it has become indistinguishable from reality. At least it leaves us in no doubt about who is actually running the country and reminds us that whoever is Prime Minister, the leadership never changes.

You couldn't make this stuff up. The age of satire is dead, it has become indistinguishable from reality. At least it leaves us in no doubt about who is actually running the country and reminds us that whoever is Prime Minister, the leadership never changes.

I put a link up the other day referencing The Betoota Advocate re: the leadership spill. No surprise that their piss take was spot on. Ol’ Rupert was the main man dictating what, in his opinion, needed to be done. This link below was just updated

Stuff Trump, we’ve got our own problems here in Oz

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-18/liberal-leadership-spill-rupert-mu...

That link is gobsmacking flip!

What struck me was how ‘frightened’ Kerry Stokes was at the prospect of a Shorten government changing the industrial relations regime given his mining interests.

‘Frightened’ of workers having the power to collectively bargain to improve pay and conditions thus reducing this billionaires bottom line!

There are many younger Australian’s today ‘frightened’ of not being able to afford to have a roof over their head when they retire. Talk about out of touch?

Shows you who is really running this country under the current government.

Apologies in advance for any distress this picture may cause....yeah no media bias or influence here.....

"What struck me was how ‘frightened’ Kerry Stokes was at the prospect of a Shorten government changing the industrial relations regime given his mining interests."

Pity the billionaire.

@Westofthelake.

In late 2002, 174 (out of 175) Murdoch-owned papers were for the invasion of Iraq. Two months later it was 175 out of 175 when the Hobart Mercury fell into line. Newspapers are merely the propaganda arm of Murdoch's business interests.

A remarkably similar version was told to the Australian Financial Review. In it, Mr Murdoch told Mr Stokes: "They'll only be in for three years — it won't be so bad. I did alright under Labor and the Painters and Dockers; I can make money under Shorten and the CFMEU."

Murdoch - 87 year old billionare who is still concerned about making money. The stupidest man that’s ever lived ?

@Stu, didn't know it was that extensive. Talk about propaganda extraordinaire . Funny though how the right are the loudest at claiming left wing media bias.

And they sing the virtues of a free market while subsidising coal.
And champions of free speech till Chelsea Manning wants a visa, or a nine-year old girl exercises her freedom.

It doesn't pay to be an ideologue, of either stripe.

Ahhhh yessssss the "free" market, that relies on Communist China, which is not a free market.
A grand paradox.

The news about Murdoch and Stokes texting who they were going to anoint as the next prime minister is rather unsurprising. Its something that Murdoch, at least, has always done. What is surprising is how this has got out into the public domain.

" ....Funny though how the right are the loudest at claiming left wing media bias ...." you are on a roll at the moment Westofthelake.

Well the right have always claimed that they represent the "silent majority", when really they are simply the loudest minority.

"Ahhhh yessssss the "free" market, that relies on Communist China, which is not a free market.
A grand paradox."

And this blind faith, from both sides of politics mind you, and the paradox of china is possibly the seed of many of the world's current woes.

But nobody, from either side, wanted to talk about that.

"And this blind faith, from both sides of politics mind you, and the paradox of china is possibly the seed of many of the world's current woes"
Yep. Oh... And ad to that the privatising of essential services like power, aaaand "amway/pyramid" style society created by Howard, of judging those below you and sucking those above, aaaaand the demonising of the poor and minority groups.

When Howard and his rightards thought it a good idea to manipulate the "aspirational voters" to hate the unemployed, to sneer at single mums, to allow councils to sack keen workers and replace with "work for the dole" free slave labor, they didn't think of one particular reaction (because as we know for every action there is a reaction).
By turning Australians over a period of 20 years into a mob of judgemental sneering greedy unhappy fucks , eventually we would turn our gaze onto those that have created this monster, the politicians and parliament itself.
There's a sea of discontent. It was ok to bash the dole bludgers in 2004, when we were drunk on chinese cash from the mining boom. But now every family has a person struggling. Every family knows how NASTY Clink is, how ridiculous the hoops are. There are homeless people who aren't even counted on the unemployment stats. They don't even get the dole. This is the real Australia. And if the libs or Labor think "old fashioned" scare campaigns" about islam, or race baiting or populist bullshit is going to work, then they better get ready for decades of hung parliaments, AND a life made very uncomfortable. Because if we cant feel secure, then THA FUCK they should.

"And they sing the virtues of a free market while subsidising coal."

And Beach Energy which is 51% owned by Stokes was given a grant of almost 7 million to help with gas exploration all while there are complaints from the coalition that renewables are getting too much tax payer funding.

"But now every family has a person struggling. Every family knows how NASTY Clink is, how ridiculous the hoops are. There are homeless people who aren't even counted on the unemployment stats. They don't even get the dole."

I feel for the people caught up in the current system. It's a cargo ship of a beast impervious to reality. Full of tediously painful hoops that are bad enough even if work is available. I'd say the digitisation of the system has only added to the pain. Another faceless monolith demanding your compliance through a screen, begging for your pittance

I was on the dole for years, no one on the dole has a right to whinge, it's free money.

And its addictive free money, it the biggest trap and its hard to escape.

If you budget it's not hard at all (or it wasn't then), i even went to Indo on the dole, i traveled up and down the east coast on the dole living in vans, i partied every weekend on the dole, i even bought new boards on the dole.

Looking back i have no idea how i did it, but i did and it wasn't that hard at the time.

I was out of there once Work for the dole came in though, it was only once a week, but i still thought fark that if I'm going to be working i might as well be getting paid properly.

I hated it at the time, but it was a kick up the arse i needed.

It being a choice makes a huge difference indo. As does being single, in good health and having no responsibilities. Sadly those things don't apply to most on Newstart.

It's actually gets a lot better in some circumstances, for example once you have kids.

Some of my wife's friends don't work or just work a little and have kids and get as much money as if they did work in a low paid /low skilled full time job.

I personally don't care, but she bitches about it, telling me i work this amount of hours and get this much, while so and so does nothing and gets paid this amount.

And i don't blame them, i now watch how much i earn, if i earn too much i get taxed out my butt and lose help from the government like child care subsidies.

Unless you are earning shit loads it's actually sometimes better to earn less and work less or what you would earn extra is not really worth it.

Don't get me wrong having all these payments is a good thing for society, but it gets abused and the balance is a bit screwed up, definitely nothing to be whinging about, it really is free money...and like i said its a trap, it's like an addictive drug once you get on its hard to get off.

indo the problem is low wages, not welfare. We are ended down the US path and are on our way to creating an underclass of working poor.

Spot on BB. Something like 1 in 17 living in trailer parks in the US; many working three miserably paid jobs a week to eke out an existence. America the beautiful. And, disturbingly, there are many so-called "captains of industry" in Australia who'd like to see wages remain flat to boost their own coffers. The trickle down bastards and their vacuous delusions are still out there plying their trade. Tragically, American neo-con diktat has become increasingly entrenched in OZ. By turning our backs on those in need, we are witnessing rapidly expanding, drug addled war zones on the edge of many of our cities and regional towns - lost souls without a future - lives of hopelessness and endless psychological fallout. I've seen too much of it as a clinician working in emergency mental health teams in the past.