What's what?

Great points blowin. As consumers we have lots of power if we exercise it when buying our meat, chicken and eggs. And don’t believe what the supermarkets call free range eggs, they lobbied very hard to get those rules water down to be effectively meaningless.

I will watch the docco, but listening on the ABC radio to the maker he didn't sound very convincing (or that educated), he even used the old misleading false water use issue. (which luckily a farmer rang up and squashed)

Im not at all against stricter rules and regulations to make practices as humane as possible, which is always happening anyway, and in regard to pigs and chickens it would be great if there was a true free range option.

But I think it's good if these people are being come down on really hard, because there is clearly a problem in Australia where these crazy activist are getting away with way too much.

There has been quite a few incidents now where they come onto farmers in large numbers and caused all kinds of problems even taken lambs or chickens etc and often don't get charged with anything because of the safety in numbers.

Eat what you want to eat, have what views you like, even have a peaceful protest, but do it all within the law, without disrupting others.

Thing is Indo , that as usual the laws are created to protect the interests of those who donate ( AKA bribe ) to corrupt politicians.

It’s also misleading to label many of these businesses as farmers when they are actually corporate industry factories. Not a poor old cobber trying to earn a living and virtuously feed our nation.

Huge scale factories that treat living beings as commodities.

Watch the way the egg laying chickens live and tell me that Scomo should be coming down hard on those who try to alter the course of the world for the better.

Scomo is a bottom feeder who would - and does - compromise everything Australians hold dear in order to sit at the Prime Minister’s desk. You wouldn’t trust him with the corn from your shit.

The whole issue really needs to be broken down into different areas.

Beef & Sheep: generally live as good life as possible, and most farmers are good people who care about the lively hood of their livestock, having livestock die or in bad shape isn't good for business.

Any issues there are in the slaughter house.

Dairy: Some issues, removing calfs from mothers, or killing male calfs (but assume we eat them?)

Fish/seafood: only about sustainability.

Chicken/Eggs= Yeah sure this is where the issues and focus should be.

Pork: Same deal, as chickens.

But the things is with these radical type vegans is they think/believe we shouldn't even honey because its like slavery too bees.

Refusing to engage with the issue while value-judging the activists is a classic conservative tactic.

Don't fall for it.

Forget that Indo.

This is about poor business practices.

Like a concreter who pulls the reo out of a slab between the inspection and the pour.

Nothing more or less than cutting costs and taking shortcuts to maximise profit.

Except it’s animals being tortured.

You wouldn’t lock a 3 foot long dog in a 2 foot square cage for its entire life. But you think Scomo is right for persecuting those who protest when it’s done to other animals.

What the fuck is the “ migrant community “ ?

No one asked you to come here so you can take your demands to flood Australian infrastructure with unproductive aged grandparents and fuck right off.

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/04/migrants-cry-foul-unfair-elderl...

You are not entitled to have the demands of your non -contributing parents health and living requirements met by Australians just because you chose to move here.

Chinese community, Indian community, migrant community.......when does the formation of divisive racial sub groups stop and the cohesion as a nation start ? Diversity is strength ......like fuck. Unity is strength.

Maybe encumbent Australians need to form an encumbent Australian community in order to compete with the vociferous racial sub groups which are establishing themselves as political bodies to compete for resource allocation.

"But I think it's good if these people are being come down on really hard, because there is clearly a problem in Australia where these crazy activist are getting away with way too much."

ID to be honest there isn't enough crazy activist everyone is way to cooperative.

The real questions don't get asked unless you get into faces.

"You are not entitled to have the demands of your non -contributing parents health and living requirements met by Australians just because you chose to move here."

Blowin so once you are an Ozy oi oi oi you don't get the same rights?

You prefer the money to leave Oz to be sent overseas for the elders well being as apposed to spending the money on their well being here?

One Nation sounds like a family for you......do you have a thing for redheads by chance?

No, I’ve got a thing for my brother with Parkinson’s who can’t get in to see a specialist. I’ve got a thing for my housebound father in law who also has Parkinson’s who struggles to get a visit from a doctor. I’ve got a thing for myself as I’m virtually blind in one eye and have to wait at least 8 months for a public operation.

And we have all paid taxes and contributed towards this nation.

We owe someone’s Indian grandmother nothing.

If you are lucky enough to qualify for immigration into Australia then you get to use our facilities on the provision that you are now contributing to our country . You do not get to bring your unproductive, resource draining elderly parents .

If you think that’s racist......I don’t give a fuck. That’s your misconception to deal with.

The increased corporatisation of farming is a massive problem especially when it comes to fed lots for cattle and sheep before transportation/ slaughter. Food sourced locally is the best solution.

That’s before we start considering the wholesale clear felling of forests all around the world to feed the insatiable appetite for meat.

Blowing that's hard ...............really hope the situation improves, it wont improve under a Coalition government might a bit under Labor.

I think I remember South Africans telling me there is a waiting period for some time until their parents were eligible to access medicare most of the immigrants I worked with all had private health coverage

"If you think that’s racist......I don’t give a fuck. That’s your misconception to deal with."

Nah don't think its racist but it is disconnected from reality the idea that people should just dump their parents just isnt gunna work.

re. above about farming, protests and stuff, I really like it when guysmiley and blowin agree, really really like it, to me it means that's the real truth to an issue in our 'post truth' world.

However I really don't think the protestors won anyone over shutting down Melbourne city centre. I'd say they did their cause more harm than good. Sure raid a farm and save a chicken, but fucking over people who are just desperately trying to get to work in our already well over stressed society is just dumb and self indulgent.

If You moved to Indonesia would you feel entitled to form a group with other Aussie expats and lobby to get your elderly parents over and looked after by the Indo population ?

And I mean ENTITLED.

No chance.

Would you feel emboldened enough by the victim culture you are surrounded by to describe government conditions on allowing this to happen as discriminatory ?

No chance.

The division of Australia into competing racial “ communities “ will end in tears.

And in the meantime.....India’s elderly grandparents are India’s problem . If “Indian Australians” want t look after them them they are welcome to return to India.

And, speaking of our over stressed society and dumb, I couldn't agree more with blowin and bringing in non productive elderly family members under family reunification programs. If you want to come here and make a living fair enough. But it's not our responsibility to sacrifice our health services so someone can have their whole family here. The medical system is almost at breaking point for people who've paid taxes all their lives.

It would be way more economical for them to send the money home to help their relatives than to put more pressure on our system. It's a scam and nothing more, sold to us mugs under a guise of 'don't be racist'.

Enough's enough, fuck em.

Sypkan - We are having this discussion as a direct result of the protests.

It’s the only way the topic would ever gain traction. The ver the top reaction from the usual big end of town - Politicians, media - graphically illustrates just how strong vested interests are opposed to industrial livestock reform.

Can someone please tell me if our fetishization of chinese money is part of a bigger plan and trade deal?

Or is it just selling to the highest bidder and the chinese have all the cash?

To me, it just looks like dogs from both sides of politics cashing in on 'connections'.

Fucken dastyari definitely shoulda been egged. Dutton and turnball too.

It’s just China buying us and flooding us with its population so they don’t have to rebuild and wash all the blood away after a conventional war.

True blowin, but I don't reckon they won over any converts

The media and political reaction guaranteed that.

If the issue had been evenly discussed everywhere the outcome probably would have been very different.

Yep all any media are talking about is 'those bloody protestors'

And being 'unaustralian'. Isn't that the lamest, worn out, non gravitas put down any politician can trot out.

Fucken cringeworthy!

"It’s just China buying us and flooding us with its population so they don’t have to rebuild and wash all the blood away after a conventional war."

Surely another culture/country is competitive in these so called 'bidding processes'. The fat corrupt cats from jakarta or mumbai?

Some euro cash perhaps?

Given the palpable 'people have had enough of chinese influence' sentiment in contemporary Australia, politicians would be wise to spread the love around....the love of cash that is...

We seem beholden to china.

Maybe it's just because they're more diligent and wiser business people

Either way we're done with china!

And I feel bad saying that, because I'm getting bad vibes from legit. chinese business people, who unfortunately for them, seem to be feeling the pressure

You guys talking about Chinese influence, been to Auckland lately?

The Crown casino leak.

Shares rise 20 percent in a day after months of slow bleeding due to Chinese gambling downturn. Word of a takeover offer hits the streets after a leak. How unfortunate.....lucky everyone still made out like bandits.

Then they plummet for any shorters 24 hours later.

Would have made for a great set up . But that would never happen cause it’s illegal , right ?

Yep, sounds suss as Blowin, first thing I thought of..

Look at the short sales !

Someone had a very , very , very lucky hunch.

Each share worth approx $13 each !!!!!!

A normal, healthy company has about 0.01 percent of its capital shorted if any.

https://www.shortman.com.au/stock?q=Cwn

hahaha Blowin, ANZ 18/10/12 heading into XDiv, MM's decide to open it 6.4% higher for a reason I've yet to determine, price fades back down to last close by EOD leaving a solid black candle, and any shorters who had an automatic stop got evaporated - never forget!

Personally i take my hat off to Scomo over proposed new laws to be able to jail these crazy vegan activist that trespass and basically terrorises farmers.

https://7news.com.au/politics/vegan-activists-could-face-jail-morrison-c...

I heard on ABC Radio today one of the activist went to court on Friday for causing problems at a farm, got a tap on the wrist and suppose to be on good behaviour for a few months, but then on Monday there she is at it again, and like many of these looneys says she won't end it until the world has all gone vegan.

By all means, go protest at parliament house or somewhere that isn't going to disrupt traffic and do it all legally.

But going into peoples farmers and basically terrorising them is the real issue, sooner or latter some farmer or staff are going to get frustrated and take things into their own hands, and most likely some of these crazy vegans are going to get hurt even possibly killed.

And the thing that really sucks, is the farmer is going to be the one that cops the jail sentence, not the crazy vegans that have in some cases terrorised these farmer a number of times.

Hoi, Andy M, here's your ProMo man...

Speaking of fucked humans and poor animals, these Argentinians make the owners of craig's bali dolphin pool look like dr. doolittle

https://www.unilad.co.uk/news/a-baby-dolphin-died-because-people-wanted-...

It feels good to bag honkeys from south america for once, rather than the usual pile on with asian cultures and their shortcomings with animals

Fucking selfies!

They're the scourge of modern society. They should be banned before any bloody protest

How good would it be to wade into that bunch of gronks swinging a heavy wooden club whilst dressed as a dolphin.

Keep that infamous 'fish killing baton' in its holster, cowboy.

Anyhoo, cyclists, vegans, asylum seekers, Chinese Indian grandmothers...

https://www.amrtimes.com.au/?lifestyle%2Fmotoring%2Fits-a-cycle-of-hate-...

Oi!!!!

The Macky smasher would smoke those dolphin molesting fools. Not much give in a carved snake wood fish baton.

Whether they’d ridden push bikes to the beach or not would be incidental.

Well, here comes the federal election...finally.

It'll be interesting (well, up to a point) to see how the media covers the 'better economic managers'.

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/coalition-doubles-all-government-debt-sin...

that article is pretty misleading I reckon. Shouldn't they account for inflation in there somewhere?

I have no doubt the debt is spiralling out of control, but money is worth way less than it was 50 years ago so the numbers mean little in the bigger context

Also, services provided by government have increased about 100 fold through that period. That was fine when the economy was booming, through several periods - well it wasn't really, it was just dumb, and the sovereign wealth fund should have been bigger and encouraged more - but anyway, both sides of politics pushed their pet agendas putting us in this hole.

Smart economists suggest the western world developed economic sloppiness and unrealistic expectations in the post ww11 boom. Baby boomers thought the money was going to flow forever so gave themselves ridiculous government pensions etc. and have facillitated an unrealistic wish list of government provisions.

The reality is you just can't keep offering more and more services, especially considering the costs of those services are skyrocketing with developing technology.

The truth of the matter is people need to be more independent, or at least, we need to cut back to essential services and make the access equal to all.

Both sides of politics are too chicken to tell the public the truth as it would be political suicide.

Not saying the artcle is wrong, just pointing out that it is a classic case of selective facts and figures to push an agenda

It's time to face reality and propose a triage of government provisions. Or all sides can just keep on blaming the other side continuously until equality, economy,and society is so fucked up and broken we have a civil war of sorts.

I'm cool with either way, just stop bullshitting me!

Jeez, where do ya start with all that?! Again! As always!

What about just this one for a starter example...

"Also, services provided by government have increased about 100 fold through that period."

Really?? Got any kind of figure there? Or just going by the 'feels'?

Again.

As always.

Anyway...

"When you head to vote on polling day you’ll be handed two sheets, a small green one for the House of Representatives and a large white one for the Senate.

Federal elections in Australia use a mandatory preference system, meaning that on the small green sheet you’ll need to number all of the boxes in order of your preference.

Once polls close, first preference votes are counted. If no single candidate secures an absolute majority, the candidate with the least number of votes is eliminated from the count.

The votes for the eliminated candidate are then redistributed among the remaining candidates starting with the number two preference. That continues until one candidate has a majority."

"In the Senate, you have two options. You can either number at least six boxes for your preferred party or candidate above the line, or vote below the line for individual candidates. If you vote below the line, you need to number at least 12 boxes.

Unlike the house, Senate voting uses a proportional representation system to ensure the right amount of Senators are elected from each state. It means political parties are represented according to their share of the vote and tends to make the Senate more evenly divided between the major parties. It also often makes it easier for minor party candidates to be elected."

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/apr/11/the-australian-el...

"The truth of the matter is people need to be more independent, or at least, we need to cut back to essential services"

And throw in more privitisation as well Syppo?

Sounds like you're reading from the LNP songbook.

I can't believe you haven't suggested that, at the least, companies start paying tax before we talk about gutting services.

Remember this?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-13/one-third-of-australian-companies...

"The truth of the matter is people need to be more independent, or at least, we need to cut back to essential services and make the access equal to all."

Aren't you independent??

Picture THE BEST games of footy you can remember, the most incredible games.
Remember the umpiring/Refs?
NO....... NO u don't.
That's how a good government should be. Just making the obvious correct calls, then getting THE FUCK out of our faces.
Shorten should say this. That he knows people are sick to death of seeing and hearing politicians EVERY DAY 24/7. Sick to DEATH of 100s of MILLIONS spent in government advertising, that if elected, his government will pull back on being in peoples faces day after day after day. He'll allow us to "breathe again"

What does independent mean?
Societal pressure to be "tough", to be self sufficient and stand on your own two feet?
Or maybe individuals with an increasing degree of isolation and a weakened community?
Parts of this ideal of liberal individualism are fraught with problems and allow you to be picked off and taken advantage of at every turn.

Sheepdog, why do Scandi countries dominate happiness indexes?
Plenty of government decision making there.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel/2019/03/20/northern-europe-domin...

"Parts of this ideal of liberal individualism are fraught with problems and allow you to be picked off and taken advantage of at every turn."

And it also prevents a united stand aginst the corporate leeches who evade taxes, bank in the Caymans etc etc.

"United we bargain, divided we beg."

Whoops, wrong thread.

Again.

"The ATO said total corporate income tax collected in the period lifted by 19 per cent to $45.7 billion, which is $7.5 billion up on the prior period, in part because of an additional 68 entities being taxed."
$45.7b sounds like a lot of tax paid to me.

"But shadow assistant treasurer Andrew Leigh said the data showed 722 out of 2,109 companies paid no tax. "Australians don't want the world's biggest tax loopholes, they want the best schools and hospitals," he said."
This is typically misleading political spin. At the beginning of the article it says: "About one-third of large companies have failed to pay tax, even though they made a gross profit, but the Tax Office says most have good reasons, according to the latest corporate tax transparency report released today."
So the Tax Office says most have good reasons. They should know. Also if he is the assistant shadow treasurer he should know that companies don't pay tax on their gross profit. They pay it on their taxable income which is different. So he's either being disingenuous or he is financially illiterate.

"Oxfam Australia chief executive Dr Helen Szoke said it was an "unjust reality" that one-in-three large companies paid not a single cent of tax in 2016-17."
Again she ignores the fact that the Tax Office has said that most of these companies have good reasons for not paying tax. She is also either being disingenuous or she is financially illiterate.

"ATO commissioner Jeremy Hirschhorn said the crackdown on multinational tax avoidance had begun to emerge in the latest data as companies restructure their tax affairs to stay within the law. " In coming years, the full effect of the Multinational Anti-Avoidance Law (MAAL) will flow through as multinational companies book billions more in sales locally," Mr Hirschhorn said."
The introduction of the Multinational Anti-Avoidance Law is a very positive measure taken by the government to keep up with the likes of Google et al to try and force them to pay tax in Australia.

In the meantime the wheels are starting to fall off Chris Bowen's wagon. According to the Financial Review today he's fucked up his negative gearing numbers and according to them he has a history of these sorts of errors. It will be interesting (but not in a good way) to see how they go in government.

Oh ye of corporate faith......

All companies evading tax have "good" reasons, and I mean good in the legal sense, which is how the ATO also uses it lest they be perceived as ineffective. "Good", however, does not mean good for the tax base of the country where the company does business and "good" does not mean ethical. And "good" can easily become "illegal" if a shrewd govt achieves power. Let's hope it happens soon.

Also, in your rush to stick the knife into Leigh you've accused him of an inference he didn't make. Leigh said nothing about paying tax on gross profit. Read it again, this time without your Tory glasses on (which make you terribly myopic).

Is transferring / offshoring profits a good reason?

Bill Shorten walked into a bank to cash a cheque
When he’s called over to the teller, he says, "Good morning, could you please cash this cheque for me?"

The teller replied, "It would be my pleasure sir. Could you please show me your ID?"

Bill Shorten said, "Truthfully, I didn’t bring my ID with me as I didn't think there was any need to. I’m the leader of the Labour Party of Australia."

The teller said, "Yes sir, I know who you are... but with all the regulations and monitoring of the banks because of impostors, forgers, and requirements of the legislation etc., I must insist on seeing ID."

Shorten said, “Just ask anyone here at the bank who I am and they’ll tell you. Everybody knows who I am."

The teller said, "I’m sorry, Mr Shorten, but these are the bank rules and I must follow them"

Getting a bit agitated, Shorten snapped, “C'mon woman, I’m urging you, please, to cash this cheque.."

The teller said, "Look Mr Shorten, here is an example of what we can do. One day, Tiger Woods came into the bank without ID. To prove he was Tiger Woods, he pulled out his putter and made a beautiful shot across the bank into a cup. With that shot we knew him to be Tiger Woods and cashed his cheque.

"Another time, Andre Agassi came in without ID. He pulled out his tennis racket and made a fabulous shot where the tennis ball landed in my cup. With that shot we cashed his cheque. So, Mr Shorten, what can you do to prove that it is you, and only you?"

Bill Shorten stands there thinking, and thinking, and finally says, "Honestly, my mind is a total blank... there’s nothing that comes to my mind. I can't think of a single thing. I have absolutely no idea what to do... and I don't have a clue."

With a big smile, the teller said, "Will that be large or small notes, Mr Shorten?

Haha !