Liberal Leadership

Turnbull may be an improvement on Abbott but they have a massive problem with the rest of their potential front bench. You couldn't find a meaner, more negative minded bunch than Hockey, Pyne and Bishop. I find great amusement pausing them mid sentence on TV to capture the looks on their faces. Just don't do it when the kids are around it would scare the bejesus out of them!

I hope that Great War survivor Kevin Rudd gets in. I worship the ground he walks on.
Can I get in line with you York so I can give him a blow job after you have finished. Wanker

Abbot looks like a thunderbird puppet, Julia Bishop looks like some sort of zombie, there is no soul in her shell. I like laughing at them in opposition, but it will be scary with them in charge.
If liberals win, Turnbull will be leader within a year, s'pose if they lose too.

And going on Abbott's comments yesterday regarding that invisible non-existent gas, how about we put him in a room with it and see how long he lasts. Idiot!

It's interesting to see the Labor and Liberal politicians on TV these days - either interviewed on 7.30 Report, or as guests on Q&A (or similar programs) - and compare the personalities.

I'm neither aligned to either party but apart from a couple of exceptions (ie Turnbull) the Liberals seem to have a much greater proportion of bitter, condescending and arrogant people than Labor. Or perhaps Labor are just sending their most well presented Cabinet members into the public arena?

Either way, I wonder if the Liberals are seriously considering replacing Abbott before the election with Turnbull? I reckon that'd seriously give them a much greater chance at victory over Labor/Rudd. Right now they must be shitting bricks.

@ben have to agree with you, politics is a game of personalities now. when things were very serious early 2000's, whether we liked it or not we needed strong leadership, and, Latham whilst a bit of a loose cannon, along with Brown, was sticking up for aust interests in the face of 'weapons of mass destruction' in the mid east invasion game. our TV watching sloths at home preferred Johnny in his tracksuit in the 'game of thrones'. all Johnny ever was was a mouthpiece for the nuclear power industry and cricket. whilst Brown and the Greens were by no means perfect, at least it seems like he used to think about the issues and doesnt just try and turn everything to the lobbyist agendas advantage.

@ben, also, i think you guys are from S.A. i remember our state was pretty progressive in many ways in terms of politics when we had guys like Don Dunstan and predecessors. i loved S.A, it was a bit of a backwater but a friendly state and generally you could cruise around hassle free. recent visits after law and order 'Rann', it seems like the State relies on traffic infringements and shanty town style building laws to fill the coffers. Rann upped the pay for himself, under the guise of attracting better minds to politics, all we got were a heap of lawyers obsessed with 'association laws' and destroying more freedom, meanwhile, Rann assisted the fact S.A become the major nuclear waste dump, convoys of nuclear waste going through the cities, i wonder, what really was the more important issue regarding the safety of constituents and further generations? dont even mention that ridiculous 'profits for the mates' desalination disaster in the gulf............

This article speaks for itself

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/coalition-again-at...

Liberal Leadership? an oxymoron if I ever saw one.

I wonder if we have much to fear from Abbott, its the people around him that are real scary. So how many of his front bench were there under Howard (lots) and some of the Liberal members elected since Howard are pretty right wing in there views. So in summary we have tired old hacks and new upstarts with very conservative views on small government. And that mix will keep Malcolm out of the leadership.

At the end of the day there are only minor differences between both political parties that is why I liked the role the independents and Greens played in this parliament. The real runners of politics in this country are the lobby groups like the Minerals Council (we all remember their highly successful campaign against the mining tax).

If we want the checks and balances in places to avoid the extremes in policy that can sometimes occur best to keep the Senate a house of review and not a rubber stamp.

I must live in a sheltered world, I didn't realise there were this many Labor-aligned people out there. Not to say that I'm a dead-set Lib supporter, but the history of the current govt is pretty shit. One reminder - Gillard was (according to the polls - theoretically therefore the people) the worst PM in history. Prior to her, Rudd was...the worst PM in history (once again according to the polls). Either the polls are wrong, or our hindsight is different.

One thing that shits me most about this guy is he is so hell-bent on his legacy that he's not actually putting any substance into anything. Every time I hear him speak he reminds me that he was the first to do something - say sorry, sign kyoto, be open-minded on gay marriage etc.

I know the Lib approach is a lot meaner, but at this stage I would rather a carefully crafted approach than the scattergun and repeal approach. I have seen govt bureaucracy from a short distance and I have been appalled by the lack of productivity and over-staffing.

Anyone else think state govts are probably unnecessary? I know we're a big country, but with a population not much bigger than some cities, wouldn't local and federal be enough? Maybe prefectures or provinces?

Your last question kaiser ... From memory Gough Whitlam was the last PM that wanted reform in that area and the conservatives closed that discussion down real quick.

We are over governed and dropping the states and expanding LGAs would be a great thing for service delivery and saving mega bucks in the process.

But the long held conservative push here and elsewhere in the world is to devolve responsibility away from centralised government and putting the power into the hands of local communities and authorities for such things as health and education. This is why Gonski isn't supported by Abbott, it goes against everything his front bench believe in, just ask their policy advisors the IPA.

This is the sort of nonsense you get when ideology (small government is good government) governs policy development and this is why I have the view most good policy initiatives with lasting effect come from the left of centre parties and not the far right. Get me?

@ Kaiser.

Dunno if I'd call myself a Labor bloke, having not voted for them since Keating left town, but I do know that conservatives are supposed to be just that - to not move on anything unless it's beyond reasonable doubt an improvement on the status quo.

This slogan, erm, sorry, 'policy' fails that test. Let alone the human decency test. Let alone the test of building a strong alliance with our most important (by a long bloody mile) regional neighbor.

Apart from that, I like it. A lot.

Oh, and for the reason that it won't work in stopping boats. May end up getting us into the international court for ignoring our maritime obligations such that people drown at sea being towed back or as a result of storms after our patrol boats cut them adrift in international waters. Where we'd deserve to be.

Fair points Whaaaat, taken.

I wonder how much is fair dinkum and how much is grandstanding. The intertwined media and pollie machine means that calm, sensible and logical doesn't get noticed and/or doesn't get broadcast, or isn't even said in the first place.

There's definitely some onus on those who own the shores from whence they came to stifle the act, but sadly from what I have seen of the indo govt, I don't think it's high on the agenda (or able to be funded in any case). It's a real conundrum, but it also shouldn't be a lynchpin of a party campaign - Libs guilty for that one. There's plenty of other stuff that should be prioritised on the basis that it affects the resident population more.

The Keating/ early Howard days seemed to be a time of much more clarity than now, where it wasn't as exciting and trashy but shit got thought through and shit got done. And people had the courage of their convicitions to follow through, rather than bow to populist opinion in the interest of achieving or retaining office.

True enough, although a disability scheme is a big, big deal, bigger than most of realise. She was a terrible PM but a great negotiator.

God, imagine being on the other side of the table from Sophie Mirabella! Erk. Tony Windsor says she was the worst of em all, on other side of the house.

Just on rattle's comment of being over governed, we have a constitutional election coming up and local councils want you to vote yes for them to be recognised (as at present they are not). The last two elections, they got the no vote and my understanding is that this is their last chance for recognition. If the yes vote gets through, look out.

Yes the NDIS is the perfect scheme to propose in the current environment. It is obviously very beneficial to society, but will cost a lot. It will also be another part of the legacy. The beauty part is, it can't be opposed as anyone who wanted to go against it would be crucified on the spot and painted as a heartless monster. So the cynic in me (and it's hard to keep him under wraps these days) says that there is a lot of tactics in its inception.

Imagine if someone tried to float the GST as an idea in this day and age... or even a Carbon Tax (or ETS). This is why these sorts of things are introduced after getting office rather than being the platform of the campaign.

Wow Yorkes! Great link. I'm wondering where the court case is at against this black widow?

But, it's all pollies. Look at the current QLD government, up to their eyeballs in nepotism and cronyism.

Wayne Swan (now he's a slimy bugger that one) got off on a technicality in the 90's for branch stacking and paying bribes not long before he knifed Kim Beazley in support of his mate, the current PM. Which we all know how it ended after the little turncoat went behind his mates back to support Julia. Back to the bench for the worlds greatest treasurer.

Abbott or Rudd? Slim pickings I'm afraid my friends.

Sorry, don't know where I was going with that. I would truly just love to see one day, a real leader that is genuinely interested in the advancement of Australia.

'You can't put lipstick on a pig' is the rule that Ms Mirabella proves by exception. A truly, deeply unimpressive human being.

And Mrs Macklin is any better? or is it Ms..can never work it out..me being a mysoginist and all? But hey name calling and harassment is all to be expected from lowly educated welfare cheating labor folk..spend , spend, spend..then the taxpayer have to pay it all back..but it is no surprise surfers are labor supporters..after all it was known as the Bob Hawke surf team!! now Kate Ellis..phew !! I'd like a piece of that political pie ;)!!

"But hey name calling and harassment is all to be expected from lowly educated welfare cheating labor folk"

Irony gold!

@whaaaaaat, so your not a labour voter? That's weird cause you sure sound like one. You sit on here preaching your big words, confusing everyone with your vast knowledge of the English language. Good for you, this forum gives you that alter-ego in your life that you probably need, maybe we all need it. I have nothing against Gillard personally, she is probably a nice person and got into politics for all the right reasons but she was a shit negotiator, she negotiated a shit deal on the mining tax, negotiated a shit deal on the carbon tax that in the end showed her up to the puppet she was. K Rudd is a ego-maniac, psychopath obsessed with the size of his own head. Yeah what do they say don't throw stones in glass houses? or was it mud brick houses? or maybe straw bailed houses? apologies I digress. Nick X for PM I reckon, the only Polly that keeps it real.

What's a Labor voter sound like?

It's not what you have said whaaaat, but what you havn't said. You crap on about Mirabella, fair enough the woman has problemsand highly annoying, think finger nails down a black board annoying. Your negativity towards the 'right' is obvious, thats OK, your choice. But if you have such a balanced veiw on the world where is any positive commentary on the Libs? Where is any negative commentary on the Labour party? If you honestly believe that the current government has done a good job, and deserve another chance, you are in la la land, talk to someone in small business. At least Yorkes doesn't hide behind the 'I'm not aligned to either party card', we know where he stands, good for him, even though I reckon he is dilusional. I personally hate them all, all they give a shit about is getting in to power, getting their outrageous salaries, and serving enough time to get parlimentary super to retire on, as well as some travel thrown in. The labour party under Rudd will surge further and further right, what will happen when they go so far right they go past the Libs? Where will the blind labour supporters go then, or will they just follow cause thats who Dad voted for, or cause 'I'm no toffy rich guy'. I find it amusing and confusing that at Labours core you have the the inner city arty community who are sympathetic to things like the plight of refugees, then on the other hand you have western suburbs low socio's that 'fuckin hate the refugees, send them home, this is our country'. I realise this is a major generalisation but you get my drift. The labour party at it's heart,is a divided rabble of conflicting ideals, The libs on the other hand are stuck in some fucking timewarp they find impossible to get out of, at least they remain composed and united most of the time, even to their detriment with Abbott remaining as leader. But anyway as you say 'whaaaat'......'meanwhile in Syria'.

Tyler, thank you for sharing.

@ salt "I find it amusing and confusing that at Labours core you have the the inner city arty community who are sympathetic to things like the plight of refugees, then on the other hand you have western suburbs low socio's that 'fuckin hate the refugees, send them home, this is our country'."

And that's nothing like the libs' commitment to the market conflicting with the nats instinctive agrarian socialism now is it? Personally, and look I'm just a squirrel with large figs, I think I'd go so far as to borrow something I read recently and say that the coalition, at its heart is a divided rabble of conflicting ideals.

More political contradictions.

Labour's green action in Tasmania to secure a general forestry deal or even federal Labour insisting on proper environmental safeguards for the great Barrier Reef verses Paul Howes and his AWU push to retain or expand jobs in these old world pursuits.

Or what about Labour's carbon pricing policy based on market forces verses Abbott's direct action approach which relies on money in the annual federal budget i.e. tax payers money given to big polluters in the hope they will do something. WTF.

Yorkes, apologies for my spelling, and any other spelling mistakes I may make in future. You are obviously knowledgeable on the current Labour governments spending. Labour has showered us with gifts, thanks. I've got kids so I have scored well in that regard. I love my kids over priced school hall as much as the next bloke, but could the country afford to build one in every school in the country? Probably not. Could Australia afford to waste billions on home insulation rorts? Probably not. Yeah we have low inflation and interest rates but I reckon that has more to do with the economic situation in Europe and the US than anything our government has done. As far as performance of our economy, that has SFA to do with Labour government decisions , and a hell of allot to do with mining companies digging, pumping and selling Australia's natural resources overseas so they can value add and sell it back. Personally I don't think I have benefited from the mining boom, apart from house values going up in my suburb due to cashed up WA miners buying up property over the net, not too mention some mates shouting me a couple of beers on their two weeks off. You are obviously very passionate on the Labour cause, that's good we need to have debate even on a forum like this. That's what makes a democracy worth its salt. Just to clarify I don't just get fed main stream bullshit, I listen and read info from all over, is Swellnet mainstream? I read your comments with interest, always well written and thought out albeit biased, as many would say mine are. I'm no right wing liberal either, just sick of the waste and scatter brained approach of the current government, surplus here , surplus gone, surplus back next year, oh sorry no surplus next year, no sorry surplus back in the future, actually sorry cant put a time frame on when the surplus will be back. Yes carbon tax, no carbon tax, yes carbon tax. Give me a break. One thing YS we would agree on is, surfing is awesome, and when your out in the water you don't think much of this shit, only the next wave, when is it gonna come, am I in the right spot and hope I jag the good one.
@Whaaat cryptic as always keep it up, but if you are referring to the 'Tyler' as in fight club, yeah good movie, I liked it.
@vas-blottmouth plagiarise all you like, no need to reference

Okay, im a simple man so be kind on me, and im a swinging voter, but lean towards labour (or i do stupid things like vote every other obscure party first and, greens, labour, liberal last, don't know if there is any point, but yeah)

But i really don't understand how the inflation rate can be low, in the real world day to day living cost are going up and up and up things like, food, fuel prices, electricity prices, gas prices, council rates, basically things i cant avoid.

While in contrast things i rarely buy have barely gone up even over twenty years, some things like CD,s, electronics, and basically anything that is sold in stores like Kmart from clothes to bikes, thank god even air fares are cheap compared to 20 years ago, I know theres reasons why these things are cheap (but thats not my point)

Okay, i have some figures to back it up, i compared rates on my bills from 2007 to 2013 (roughly five year period) over that time here is the % in rise of prices (obviously these are % increases in unit charges etc not how much or how little i use, if you know what i mean)

Council rates= up 40%

Gas= up 25%

Water= up 5.5% (quite surprised this is so low?)

Electricity= up 110%

BTW. I didn't do this with my bills just to post here, i was sorting through my crap the other day, and i just had to check it out.

Indo, it spins me out too the prices of things when I go home. My mum sent me a package a couple of years ago- cost $55 to send. Two years down the track, same package, same dimensions and weight- $75. $3.50 for a 500ml bottle of water- WTF? I bought my wife and I, 2 pies, a sausage-roll and 2 drinks from the Main Beach Bakery last time I was home, I think it came to nearly $17. Here in Japan, I can have a proper sit down meal for 2 with a large beer for less than that.

Cars, don't get me started on those- We just bought a new car for the wifey here, tad over $30k AUD, back home, same model, same spec- just under $60k. Unbelievable!

Since I've been living in Japan, the cost of living has seemed to skyrocket in Australia, especially food and utilities, it's like a sledgehammer between the eyes when I go back home.

I don't understand, 20 years ago, a nice board off the rack or a custom would run you around $650-$700, last board I got shaped (through my bro's shaper admittedly) cost me $550 and I saw plenty of boards on the rack for around $700.

Do any Aussies actually think they're better off under either government over the last decade?

Hey Salt

I too am very concerned about government waste so I would like to hear your views on the Howard and Costello years and the yearly tax cuts to Howard's aspirational Australians. You could also add some comments on your position about Howard's non-means tested superannuation and family payment concessions. I recently heard an economist talk about the current cost of these cuts/concessions and how they are now running so high that Australia would currently have a surplus over $20 billion if they didn't exist.

$20 billion would go a long way to pay for the NDIS, Gonski, better health/hospitals, roads etc.

Your views?

From left of centre but pissed off with the lot except for Nick X and the other independents.

@zenagain, problem I reckon is simple. Who has basically had control of labour until very recently? The unions. Who has forced wages up in mining and maritime jobs ridiculously? Unions. Who does everything in their power to keep extra workers out of the country? Unions. Pretty simple then when a cleaner is making over 100k working half the year that the poor folk left in manufacturing, small business, tourism etc. have to try and maintain a workforce of who is left and entice them with way overpriced wages that the consumer is going to pay.
A few more things at play obviously but the unions have a hell of a lot to answer for, even though they never would and will just carry on like they are gods gift to the earth while they are generally a pack of useless so and so's.
massive generalization but the unions with the most power at the moment are the ones who have had the strangle hold of the country.
Makes me feel sorry for the teachers, police and other unions that are made up of people who want to generally do the right thing and get a fair pay rise not 30% every time they go to the table.
These other guys are so far removed from what a union is all about that they are actually willing to see an industry fail so they can receive a personal short term gain.
Gillard and her cronies were run by them and that is a sad place for the nation to be and has now left us one of the most expensive country's in the world with a government that has no money. AWESOME. Can't wait for that to bite us.

Yorkes, in regards to Turnbull I fully agree, I prefer him, most Australians do, its just the hard line right wingers that don't. I reckon Labour would be a little worried if he was leader as they may face an even greater fight in the next election. Many of my friends who are staunch Labour voters have stated they would vote for him over Mr Sheen, or Gillard.
Floyd I don't pretend to understand the intricacies of economic policy, but in my years of following politics, it has always been the Libs who have run the money side of things better (maybe a simplistic view but my view). Howard and Costello made crap decisions as well, they've handed out money, invented crazy incentives as well but I reckon they have done it , in a more restrained manner and when we could afford it. I also understand that the Labour party gained power right before the GFC, this made it hard for them, but to throw money at people , invent schemes that were then rorted was bad policy, a price we and our kids will be paying for, for years to come.
We need a united government, not one that is at war with itself. Turnbull lost the Liberal leadership by one vote, has there been a murmur of another spill since? If so I haven't heard of it, not to say it wont happen, I hope it does.
Like others have said,life is harder out here in middle Australia, petrol prices are through the roof, Natural gas just went up 20% here because the Japanese want more of it. That's great sell it to the Japs but why should we pay more? Why should we be bent over the barrel when the natural resource is ours? Make them pay more. We are getting charged outrageous prices for everything. I wish I grew up in the fifties, less to worry about, no TVs, no ipads no ipods, no mobile phones and the ongoing bills that accompany such luxuries.
Maybe I'll move the West Coast SA grow some weed and hang out with the Big Blonde Bi Guy, we could wax some windows and smash a few boogers cameras, bet he is not worried about politics.
The Government isn't to blame for all our worries but they haven't helped by giving with one hand and taking more away with the other.

indo
that’s some big price rises for sure. I think I read that gas and electricity have gone up cos the electric companies have been investing to improve the infrastructure. From what I recall (which isn’t much) the state of the wires and substations was pretty crap up until recently because while owned by govt and providing cheap subsidised electricity, there wasn’t the money to upgrade physical infrastructure.
Rates are tied to property so if you live somewhere that had massive property value growth that could be it.

I’ve just moved back to Oz after living in the states for a couple of years and it’s definitely more expensive here but gees we have it good by comparison. I pretty much missed the hysteria of the Gillard years but objectively I agreed with a lot of her big policy decisions (I guess that makes me a lefty socialist lazy bastard living on welfare). She got a hell of a lot of good stuff through parliament I reckon. And getting back here to an economy with excellent economic indicators (inflation is low, unemployment is low, wages are still growing, interest rates are low, the economy never slowed down across the board) I can’t fathom the doom and gloom, especially comparing it to America which hadn’t really grown economically and unemployment was double what we have here. Shit, there were about 30 homeless guys living in cars or cardboard boxes on my street alone, in one of the richest parts of US. And that wasn’t even unusual. And if you get sick when you don’t have a job with health care, you’re basically f*cked.

Clearly some sectors of our economy suffered over the past 4-5 years, but someone always does. The dollar goes up, importers love it but we’ll only see news reports of exporters suffering. When it goes down it’s great for farmers and manufacturing (what’s left of it), but we’ll only see reports about how hard it is for Harvey Norman cos it means he can’t sell TVs cheap anymore. So I don’t know, I don’t buy the doom and gloom. Things are always bad for someone, somewhere, we just hear about it more I reckon.

As for the liberal leadership, I'll never vote for Abbot. Can't stand the man. Lying, ignorant fool, preying on peoples' fears and misrepresenting just about everything. Turnbull is my alternative. Someone I could actually vote for. I'm no fan of Rudd either. I don't get the love for him. Way too populist, just like abbot. Rob Oakshott seems like the kind of bloke I'd like to have as my local mp.

In the end we are all a bunch of suckers and idiots..we think we get to choose who we vote for..who we want to run our country, or run it better. BUT in reality it is a popularity contest..40 or so people from each side tell us who is going to be Prime Minister. We get told who it can or can't be and even then the cunts change it on us. Someone said it on here before and I agree..it would be great if Mr X could get a go at it!!

That settles it, I won't be voting Liberal, this guy's good at research!

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n245/stunet/AdamB111004_zpsed336d14.jpg

Is this the research guy Stu?

Hey Salt,

Regarding this urban myth that the Libs manage the economy better you might like to check this link out before next reading or listening to the daily news ......

http://theconversation.com/australias-lamentable-media-diversity-needs-a...

As Neil Young once said "Its all one song"

This article sums up pretty much what I was talking about above and also ties in with floyd's link to the conversation website. Compared to the rest of the world, we're doin ok.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-29/harcourt-blinded-to-one-of-austral...

Everyone who meets Abbott personally think he's a top bloke .Everyone who meets Rudd hate him. Warren Mundine ,ex labour president said this.
As a matter of fact RUDDS own party despise him. They all know he's a lying conniving peace of shit with a massive ego . All the promises he made and is making again .Are people really that stupid that they would believe his spin a second time round .
The last six years have seen the best terms of trade in Australia's history due to the resources boom yet debt is reaching 300 billion ,of which interest repayment are around 12billion per year.
This is incompetence on a grand scale .
The Labour Party has been a disaster for Australia
Economist Henry Ergas has some excellent and factual articles which highlights just what a lying incompetent and deceitful bunch the Labour Party are

Oh by the way , I think my last post here was concerning boat people.What do all the bleeding heart progressives think of Kevs new boat people policy?
What do you know ,it appears little Johny was right all along. It only took over a thousand deaths and countless billion for the fools to work that out!

Im honestly not trying to stir up shit, but i have to share this song called "vote Liberal"

Interesting article in The Age today about role the IPA has in political life here in the "lucky" country.

The IPA is head by John Roskam. Never heard of him? well that is who you will be supporting particularly if you vote Liberal.

Mr Roskam is quoted as saying " All governments are threats to our freedom" and believes the Liberal Party now has a tougher breed of free marketeers.

No surprise the IPA is funded by the likes of Gina Rinehart

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/free-rad...

A vote for Liberal is a vote for the IPA's King of the Court, Rupert Murdoch.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/04/05/abbott-bolt-rinehart-fawn-in-the-ipa-court-of-king-murdoch/