many-rivers, 1389561774

If I could also ask for some background on Da Hui. Is this a commercial outfit or a gang of sorts?
I mean Rabbit getting punched 25 years ago can't still be related to the same tensions or is it?

udo, 1389564668

blindboy this ones for you.

stunet, 1389564780

The first incident you mention is Sam George being spat on by Eddie Rothman at the Surfer awards. Rothman is a North Shore enforcer of forty years standing and father to Makua and Koa Rothman. Four years ago he punched Billabong executive Graham Stapelberg in the head at the Billabong house at Pipeline. There were no repercussions for that incident. In fact, Makua Rothman is sponsored by Billabong subsidiary, RVCA.

These examples are indicative of the unique cloak and dagger-type politics of the North Shore. You hear a lot of talk but it's very hard to ascertain what is fact and what is fiction. Even harder to figure out why things happen the way they do. As for causes, much of what happens out there can be attributed to local dispossession of land mixed in with valuable surfing commodities.

As anywhere that has a history of overthrow there is a simmering resentment from the indigenuous peoples. That added with the annual migration of the surfing world to the North Shore fuels the anger, and merged with weird local politics finds expression in acts such as those mentioned above and many others that wouldn't be tolerated elsewhere.

'Da Hui' literally means 'the club' and is shortened from Hui o he'e nalu (the eternal surfing club). Most likely it was adopted from the Wakiki surfing club that Duke Kahanomoku belonged to 'Hui Nalu' (surfing club).

You mentioned Rabbit getting beaten up 35 years ago (winter of '77 from memory). After that happened a local came up to him and gave him a copy of 'Hawaii' by James Michener, which is perhaps the most telling fact about that whole incident. Hawaiians have seen their culture almost totally destroyed by white man, first by the Catholic missionaries, and then annexure by the United States. The last bastion of independence and connection to the 'way things were' is the sport of surfing. Rabbit and Kanga and other loudmouth Australians were ignorantly trying to show the Hawaiians 'how to surf' and got their comeuppance.

Not all violence on the North Shore can so easily be attributed to such grievances, there are so many other influences now that it's a messy business tracing motivations, yet undoubtedly dispossession of land and culture has been the cause of some of the violence.

The greatest irony in all this? Eddie Rothman has no native Hawaiian blood and is a teenage runaway from California with Jewish heritage.

groundswell, 1389565009

To Quote Chandler from the movie north shore (after Rick Kanes stuff is stolen). "Those Hui had their islands stolen from them from mainlanders," or something like that.
Im no expert on the Hui Wolf pak or Hawaiian politics that happened recently yet can see they are a proud bunch and could easily be pissed off for many reasons .
Such as a photog shooting a secret spot or say even only filming a certain haole no one else.

Too many people go to Hawaii so for sure they would be angry and the economic issue of not giving back to the locals a big one for sure.
I think its rough though when some turn up to a spot in oz or Asia where ever and expect the same local rights, or tell people to go in.
Personally i have no interest in the waves in Hawaii for travel why? when there's a million other islands that get just as good if not better in the world.
Imo unless you're already a veteran or big wvae surfer and love the spots its a surf career/sponsorship move for too many.

Heaps of waves shit on Sunset and pipe.

udo, 1389565584

has any journo ever asked eddie rothman about his non Hawaiian birth status.

stunet, 1389566263

Udo,

Think Chas Smith brings it up in his latest book 'Welcome to the North Shore', and Lewis Samuels made much light of it, but don't think it's a topic any journalist would raise whilst in strike range.

blindboy, 1389566496

I can't throw a great deal of light on this. I arrived just after Rabbit got beaten up and was holed up in the Kuilima (Turtle Bay) for a day or so until it was sorted out at some sort of meeting. I always had the impression that there was more to it than just arrogance and bad behaviour in the surf, and I have heard a few stories that I won't repeat as they are hearsay. I never had the slightest problem myself and found that the vast majority of Hawaiians were actually friendly in the water. I think many felt that the violence reflected very badly on them and wanted to reassert the aloha spirit.
One aspect that no-one has mentioned here are links between the North Shore surfing community and organised crime. They clearly existed when I was there and I assume they still do. Hence the tolerance of thuggish behaviour.

many-rivers, 1389568653

Thanks for the answers.
I had read somewhere that the irony of the transplant being the angry local seemed lost on that individual.
So does the presence of this criminal element explain the very opaque explanation around the recent high profile drug related death? Are they supplying the north shore ?
Are they like the gangs in western Sydney or is this a smaller scale enterprise? I certainly wouldn't advise any reporter to start asking some of the dudes out around Lakemba and Punchbowl about their business but is this comparing apples and oranges?
And it is a strange aspect of the pro surfing fraternity that they tolerate this behaviour. Is this a sort of sympathy for the locals based on white man's guilt or are they too sacred to do anything about it?
It is a conundrum they will need to deal with if the sponsors are going to be from outside the surf clothing industry.Can you imagine an executive from ESPN being assaulted and saying thanks for the welcome?

stunet, 1389569640

[quote=many-rivers]And it is a strange aspect of the pro surfing fraternity that they tolerate this behaviour. Is this a sort of sympathy for the locals based on white man's guilt or are they too sacred to do anything about it? It is a conundrum they will need to deal with if the sponsors are going to be from outside the surf clothing industry.Can you imagine an executive from ESPN being assaulted and saying thanks for the welcome?[/quote]

The main problem is the most important and prestiguous contest in the world - the Pipe Masters - is held there during the prime swell season. And that the Hawaiian contests in general - which attract surfers from the world over - are also held then.

For those events to happen the broader surfing community must tolerate and cater to the whims of the locals. There's a history of disruption when the locals haven't got their way.

crustt, 1389571369

I've spent a bit of time over the years on Ohau and spent alot of time on the North Shore. My parents used to lease a unit for six months of the year for about 12 years an my father competed in all the rough water swims, so I got to know quite few Hawaiian families through them and the swimming and they are the mellowest people, generally I don't think they could be bothered giving a fuck they just share. That's why the place was taken over so easily .
Having said that I have found the North Shore to be the sleaziest place I have ever been in the world, it has changed a bit now due to the price of real estate. Basically everybody wants to surf and work would get in the way of that, so drugs and crime is the solution, I met a few crew that fell into the point break category. Rob a bank then spend a winter surfing on the N.S. "fuck yeah, give me a mask and a gun".
I worked in Waikiki for a very well known Mal rider(world champion) Glassing boards, that was an eye opener. I had beers every night with the beachboys after they had packed up they came to the factory , it was their bar/club, there is an evil underbelly along that strip of beach. One night I stayed late and the boss told me he wanted me to stay on for the summer and they would get me a mal and they would take me too the secret spots, but finished with the line, "but fuck with me I'll put you 6 ft. under". Next day I politely told them I was leaving, they payed me ,beat me up and warned me to keep my mouth shut. I don't think many of these guys were real Hawaiian.
Hawaii is not alone, there is a drug culture imbedded in the DNA of surfing, it is at the base of some of the biggest names.
Groundswell I have to tell you, there is nothing like getting barreled at inside Sunset.

blindboy, 1389573189

I don't know if I agree with drugs being part of our DNA crustt, I think it is more of a cross over between the young male surfing population and the fact that illegal drug use is highest in that demographic. So yes, there has always been drug use around in surfing culture but I don't think it is intrinsic to it. In fact it is something we should collectively work against. I am no wowser and would prefer to see drugs legalised but, legal or illegal, we need to condemn drug abuse and that means professional surfers taking their position as role models seriously, surf media avoiding the tacit acceptance of abuse and the corporations taking more responsibility for the behaviour of those they sponsor. And this goes all the way down the chain to the clubs and the corporations they get involved with and the behaviour they tolerate in their members.

many-rivers, 1389577580

So a further question on the drugs in sport angle - is the ASP drug testing these days? If so do they release any information about number of tests done ?

crustt, 1389580498

I never said drugs were good, I wish I never came into contact with them or anyone involved.

But years ago there were more surfers taking drugs than not and pro surfers were probably worse than most, read Jeff Hakmans book. He was not the only one doing what he was doing on the tour, no sponsors no prizemoney, how do think they afforded to travel.

many-rivers, 1389592066

So stunet any ideas why the altercation occurred at the poll award ceremony?
How does a guy with his history of violence get an invite to these occasions ?
The cloak and dagger you refer to is very odd and i'm guessing there is more to do with criminal activity than a political statement in their conflict.
But who knows ? It looks like a cone of silence descends as people just shut up and put up with this weirdness.
Where is Blasphemy Rottmouth when you need it/him/her?

stunet, 1389592943

Nah, not too sure why it happened MR. I read about it in the US surf media but no explanation was ventured. Sam George had accepted an award for the project he'd been working on about Eddie Aikau - a disagreement on the outcome? Pure speculation of course...

I don't know that Brewser Rottmouth had any more ability to seek truth than journalists on the ground. From what I saw, and from what I personally experienced, he threw too many wayward shots to be taken seriously. Seemed more hellbent on ruining the reputation of anyone and everyone in the surf industry than asking hard questions. I do miss his tirades though, he brought some colour and humour.

grog-an, 1389596212

We need to get a group together and go over there and take the north shore back for the haoles. We just need to find a tough Neanderthal type, well he doesn't need to be that tough, just needs to be able to talk himself up how tough he his and someone who is not too smart that we can fool into thinking that he can take on the black shorts...

grog-an, 1389596286

Uplift, keen to come to the north shore next season? Don't worry, no one expects you to do any surfing..

udo, 1389596599

is perry dane part of the da hui ?

many-rivers, 1389599151

http://www.mercurynews.com/hawaii/ci_24107358/mood-molokai
Brief read outlining the Molokai economy.Interesting choice to repel outside investment.
How to balance out these competing interests?

blindboy, 1389605091

crusst, by the time the pro tour kicked off there was both prize money and sponsorship. Before that there were a few ways of generating the income. The most popular was to be a shaper designer. Consider as a brief list; Lopez, Abelleira, Lynch, Fitzgerald, Anderson, Young and Farrelly. There were plenty of others. Another way was to work on some other job in the off season. Mark Warren funded at least one trip by working as a brickie's labourer. Then, of course, you could rely on your parents to wholly or partially fund your career. Mark Richards and Shaun Thompson being examples. To suggest that drug dealing was a common way of funding a competitive career is simply wrong. There were a few examples but in my experience they were mainly on the fringes.

uplift, 1389605453

Why don't you just do it yourself, see themyourself groges, what are you scared of? A coupla snorts, away you go. With your track record here, wouldn't bother though. Come and see me whenever you like, I'll help you out, what are you scared of? Back yourself. Easy. Or just snort and blabber from your hide out, under the shit.

uplift, 1389605809

I remember an article where a couple of big names from your list actually described how they would hollow out stringers in mals and bring hash back from Morocco to fund travel blindboy.

Plus, Abelleira was busted and locked up for dealing.

floyd, 1389606474

Missionnaires & dispossession, of course white Americans had plenty of experience at both by the time they got to the islands, just ask the American Indian nations.

sir ambrose beachfucker, 1389606607

name that article shirtlift.......I wish to read it.

uplift, 1389607183

No, I'm dealing with you in person.

blindboy, 1389607335

If they were mals uplift that puts it well before the pro era and unless you have a reference for the story it is only hearsay and so counts for nothing.

grog-an, 1389607524

Don't stop uppity from re-telling stories he has heard fifth hand. I love his posts. He'd have nothing to say if he can't make up bullshit.

grog-an, 1389607878

I once read this article about these " semi-pro" surfers who used to rob banks to fund their surf trips around they world. Full on adrenalin junkies. Into sky diving and stuff too.

sir ambrose beachfucker, 1389608044

uppity, roger ellers blacks charger..... ring any bells ?

uplift, 1389608337

Chapter 5 is interesting.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/115195729/The-History-of-Surfing

uplift, 1389608403

No. where are you? Come and visit.

uplift, 1389609829

Abelleira Blindboy?

uplift, 1389610515

Believe it or not a lot of stuff happened before the internet. For instance, my friend did help Tom Carrol, Meninga, Waugh, Cash etc, and one of the mags did a speil on him. He had lots of news clippings. But I wouldn't know how, or where to find it, or them. Carrol probably would though. But, then, that was in the midst of his infamous era.

blindboy, 1389611413

Sorry uplift I downloaded the app but the text was illegible. Quote if you like. My point was that crustt's comment unfairly tarred them all with the same brush, when in my first hand experience it was only ever a small minority.

uplift, 1389612652

Too much to quote, on that topic blindboy. Matt Warshaw's History of surfing. Chapter 5. But history and truth are two things agreed. No indigenous Australian's were massacred around here, according to history. I know personally people in the Gland discovery era, and the truth is a lot of stuff isn't like the glorified history. I remember meeting Don Johnson, Bruce Hansel, some surfers alliance shaper named Joe, Dave Cantrell, Marvin Foster years and years ago, and surfing with them for months. Well, Johnson anyway. The others hardly surfed. He was an awesome guy. Cantrell was historically portrayed as some 'heavy'... hilarious. They were all terrified of Foster though, except that Joe guy who was a classic and ran amuck unfazed by anything or anyone. I really wanted to see Hansel surf, but he never came out of his room despite their constant goading. Didn't surf. It was a shock to me later to read all about them. Nothing like reality.

crustt, 1389613817

You are right blindboy, not all of them were like that, but they were pretty colorful times and the prize money was bugger all so to survive there was a lot of scamming going on, if not drugs , diamonds or whatever. I was told first hand how some of them funded travel in the early days of the tour, some of it legal most of it not. What I say can easily be shot down because I am not naming anyone and I wont. I think if you gather statistics on professional sportman who got busted for dealing/importing drugs over the last 30 years ,surfing would be at the top of the list.
My reference to pointbreak was that there are heaps of surfers that would risk jail to be able to fund an extended surf trip.

floyd, 1389634934

My local surf shop (boards not clothes) long-time owner once said to me that there was no real money to made in the industry; that came from drugs or real estate and the ones with the real estate funded it from drugs. Wouldn't really know if there was any truth in that; any views/comments?

No names but have also have heard stories on what went down in Hawaii 1st hand from some-one who lived and shaped on there in the 1970s. Hard drugs, easy money and surfing, that's the way he tells it.

groundswell, 1389643545

Yep and through the ideas some of those guys might think of in that "illegal" underworld they might come up with ideas, legal ideas of products to cater for the now "legal" or medically legal laws of many countries.
Seems to have happened with a lot of cali surfers

Or just plain save enough for a normal trade business such as our local ex drug dealer.
Too many though go downhill, overdose,die, kill people and get to gangster.

As for inside sunset Crustt you obviously have a love for that wave and Hawaii. I dont mean to offend, or others here like Blind boy or Stu Net who have spent a lot of time there, though these two waves are more enticing to me with longer perfect conditions without the shut downs.Or crowds or hundreds of future world champs getting greedy :)

[URL=http://s491.photobucket.com/user/mattGroundswell/media/rockets.jpg.html][IMG]http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr280/mattGroundswell/rockets.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s491.photobucket.com/user/mattGroundswell/media/chris8ft.jpg.html][IMG]http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr280/mattGroundswell/chris8ft.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s491.photobucket.com/user/mattGroundswell/media/supers6ft.jpg.html][IMG]http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr280/mattGroundswell/supers6ft.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Also prefer the local wave here shark island on a good day to what i have seen of sunset any day.
But Island has its 50 or so too greedy heroes with 1 month experience too i guess.

crustt, 1389645205

No offense groundswell, I would surf all those waves pictured happily, These days I would not bother surfing Sunset at all have not for 15 years, not up to it anymore. If your going to Hawaii looking for waves under 10ft your wasting your money, the beauty of it is the amount of quality waves above that size.

Floyd from what i have seen and heard it is drugs and real estate,

many-rivers, 1389645713

I think Uplift has hit the nail on the head with his comment that the "official" history of things is often not like the reality.
I have posted the same questions I posted here over at The Inertia - they have reported the night when the salivary assault occurred twice but they just won't seem to dig any deeper. No response at all.
Maybe they need to think about whether being a bit more investigative will inflame some easily bruised egos?
Some of the comments on the two posts at The Inertia about the Award night are straight out abuse of the Rothman family and it hardly looks reasonable to allow such comments when there is no attempt at explaining the situation.
Why then do I want an explanation?
I guess it all boils down to legitimacy.
If there is no truth , no honesty and no transparency in the surfing business they all become a bunch of closeted, surfing clothes models. NOT sportspeople.
If there are substance abuse enablers among them and they are protected from exposure by the industry media their capacity to claim any credibility as a sport will be difficult.The surf media are complicit in allowing this to continue.
The same issues arose when I saw the way development had impacted on Maui.
It feels impolite to mention this when you are there - sitting on a californian's multimillion dollar verandah while a local cleans the garden. The average wage of locals is so small they will never own large sections of the real estate of their home land. Jobs tend to be menial and relatively unskilled and the explanations offered by those who have benefitted are all straight out of Racism 101 - they are happy being laid back and playing music , they have no ambition, they just want to take it easy.
Ever heard those before?
So if the response to this is criminality I'd like to read why, if there are political issues in Hawaii I'd like to read the surfer's perspective as it would seem the development of tourism has been assisted by the attraction of the surf.
If as blindboy states it is a minority of the sport who are wayward well then why does the industry kowtow to them? Or is the case that they are not so much a minority but the reality of life on the north shore is as crustt states conducted in one of the the sleaziest places on the planet?

blindboy, 1389653058

Many-rivers my comment was that it was a small minority of the pros who funded their travel by drug dealing. This is not to deny that surf culture has always been largely tolerant of drug use and that it has been common at all levels of the sport. So it is not so much a matter of the industry kow towing as much as they are the industry. How can you condemn drug use amongst your sponsored surfers when your executives are at it too? Traditional surf media have been absolutely dependent on the corporations and so have had no motivation to address these issues. It's all very sad and most of us could tell stories of the tragic impact it has had but, that said, it has never been too hard to just go surfing, use moderately if you have to and avoid all the crap.

fitzroy-21, 1389653386

groundswell, that right is beautiful you lucky bastard. :)

shaun, 1389655792

Floyd there is alot of truth in what you mate has told you, an example was a well known surfing identity that was buying up all the land around FOOdland.

blindboy, 1389658784

many-rivers this link does not directly address the issues you identified in Hawaii but, remembering that it is part of the USA, it has a certain relevance.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/12/is-the-united-states-a-racial-democracy/?_r=2

many-rivers, 1389671810

Again thanks for the replies and links.
Strange self contained little sport we are part of then I guess......
I'm not unaware of the perils of hefty drug use - I'm old enough to have seen the whole spectrum of outcomes.
And sure surfing has it's share of users but I'd not put in the category of a recreation that heavy users can get by in- then again recent history could be interpreted to run counter to this.
You know meeting people who are on their third day without sleep - they just don't ever talk about getting out early for the dawn patrol.
Blindboy - I get the point about your comment being about a section of the pros only but am enlightened to read that you think the drug use culture permeates the surf businesses.
The flow on from this is the lack of reporting independence in the surf media.
They really are just mags full of photos then. The copy just filler suitable for a read while on the toilet.
The comps then are really just expensive promotional events and the interviews with surfers talking about their supreme competitive drives are just so much baloney- who cares who wins in this odd environment?
Is the target market still mainly sub 18 year olds spending their parents money?
Good luck to Zosea then.
On a completely unrelated matter does anyone know if the Hainan competition is going to be held this year? Should be strating in 2 days I think?

groundswell, 1389678781

[quote=fitzroy-21]groundswell, that right is beautiful you lucky bastard. :)[/quote]
I havent actually surfed that right its hard to get to from land unless you're a full nomad or have a boat.
Am planning on going there though. A few waves similar or funner small lefts nearby.

No offense taken Crusst, respect your dedication and history of Hawaii. I do prefer waves less than 10 -12 ft these days too. Mostly enjoy 3-6 foot waves , depending on the spot and health.

Hawaii would be a great place,personally just to check it out not so much surf.. i heard someone saying if you wear shoes on the north shore you are over dressed :)

brutus, 1389684415

been watching this post for a couple of days and MR I can see that you genuinely have an interest in what is the real story in Hawaii....

A lot has been said and claimed but the truth is that all surf cultures have had enforcers ,drugs etc....Hawaii is just so in the limelight that if someone farts in the wrong way ...the rumours and innuendo begin...

Hawaii is a lot safer now than 20 years ago,the drug culture has been pushed back to such a small minority,which means a lot af Gansta shit is just rumour,and unsubstantiated odd incidents...

As for the History of surfing by MW....there has been a lot of the drug culture left out....and the so called dealing in those days was mearly a means to an end to get to a surf destination.....not tobecome multi millionaires....

As for the surf on the Nth Shore...there is no place like Hawaii because of the distances the swells have to travel and swell comes out of such deep water.....what we call 8 - 10'....sunset will test ya gonads and your waterman skills on such a consistent basis.....like nowhere on the planet...

Hawaii has all the social problems of any culture.....but Australia is still the worst by a long way in the way we treat our indigenous people.....Hawaii actually really looks after their kids....

Hawaii should be on any surfers bucket list......its actually a nice place now to visit......if ya show respect ya usually get it!!

Phil Jarratt, 1389688229

I agree with Brutus about Oahu, and particularly the North Shore being mellower these days, although unlike Brutus, I go there out of season and you won't see me on the webcast bro'ing down at the Volcom house. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get past the door Nazi.
I have only two points to make about the foregoing:
1. Early tour surfers travelling to events on the proceeds of crime. Well duh! In the period leading up to the establishment of the IPS in 1976 it was common, if not the norm, and documented to some degree in my book, Mr Sunset, in 1996. As Blindboy has noted, after the tour became official, most of the serious dope dealers had already fallen away, and those that remained, like the late Ricky Rasmussen, were peripheral players only.
2. The events of November 1976 on the North Shore have been documented so often I find it astounding that some correspondents don't know the story. Briefly, Rabbit copped a beating and everyone went and hid out at the security enclave of the Kuilima condos. A peace meeting was convened, largely through contact between the Aikau family and Paul Neilsen. This is documented in the December 1976 issue of Tracks. The Aikaus got Mark Richards to come and sit up front while they explained that he was an Aussie who showed some respeck, whereas others in the audience were not. MR looked like a startled rabbit (no pun intended). It was a good meeting, and relations improved almost immediately. Regardless of his ethnic origins, Eddie Rothman was not there because his incarnation as a Hawaiian elder had not yet been invented.

trippergreenfeet, 1389691004

I've been told a few first hand tales by an old family friend - he played an integral part before and after the short board revolution so he's getting on in years these days. You fellas who have been around a while, especially east coasters have probably met him, or at least know his name.

He started going to Ohau and Maui in the 60's before boards got the chop, and part of his funding was smuggling dope in hollowed out mals. No big plans to get rich quick, just a plan to surf all day and party all night without the worry of finding the next dollar to get by.

Also, not the Hawaii scene but have any of you seen the Sea of Darkness from 2008? The story of Martin Daly's and Dave Burnett's days in Bali during the 1970s. I have tried to find a copy but it seems to have been pulled from circulation.

many-rivers, 1389691150

So in summation I guess the analysis is that the awards night imbroglio was a molehill, another odd little incident.
As such it remains unusual that no one wants to explain what happened.........though I understand now that the US media won't go there.
Is the respect that is being mentioned on this thread a sort of cultural item like the BIg Man status that exists in PNG? Some have it ( inherited ?) and being a hierarchical society they are deferred to in every situation?
Has this traditional family based arrangement been superseded in modern times in Hawaii and other characters have now placed themselves at the top of the hierarchy?
For anyone interested parts of Maui are great - Hana in particular. The total experience though was discomforting.....western parts of the island with it's carpet of golf courses and hotels is a sort of expensive white person's resort heaven.
Makawau is one town a little more real if that is the way to describe a town with about 40 art galleries and Pa'ia is their version of a sort of cross between Bangalow and Nimbin.
If I do go back I am going to Molokai. Misanthropy just gets much more comfortable as you age!
L'enfer c'est les autres.

blindboy, 1389691609

Rick Rasmussen, now there's a name I haven't come across in years. Shot dead at a young age in a drug deal in New York as I remember!

crustt, 1389691743

Groundswell, last time I went there was August stayed in Waikiki and surfed Queens on a hired log every day, had a ball.

carpetman, 1389701119

I've looked for a copy of sea of darkness everywhere but it's impossible to find. Some classic tails in that doco.

crustt, 1389730239

There's a coincidence carpetman, I just picked up a copy of it yesterday arvo from a mate, watched the first 5 minutes looks quite interesting.

neville-beats-buddha, 1389735049

[quote=Phil Jarratt]Regardless of his ethnic origins, Eddie Rothman was not there because his incarnation as a Hawaiian elder had not yet been invented.[/quote]

Nice and dry, Phil. Nice and dry. :)

freeride76, 1389747519

The released version of Sea of Darkness has been heavily edited for legal reasons.
The original, unedited version has only been screened a handful of times in cinemas.

crustt, 1389752990

The version I have has "property of zero minus productions" embedded across the screen, so I am hoping it's the unedited version.

udo, 1389761095

crust, will post you $20 for a copy if its the ridgy didge version.

carpetman, 1389763705

[quote=udo]crust, will post you $20 for a copy if its the ridgy didge version.[/quote]

Same as above Crust, this could be a tidy little enterprise!

uplift, 1389763961

'Maverick’s legend Peter Mel admits to his own debilitating struggle with ice which he feels was partly enabled by the surf communities reluctance to discuss drug issues. “No one in the surf media wants to touch it,” Mel is quoted. “I’m embarrassed by the things I did. So embarrassed I don’t want to talk about it. But what’s the cure? To communicate about it.”'

Ridgy didge version? No such thing will ever, ever exsist udo. One thing I learned about the shit loads of users of all those drugs, the psychostimulants, is that the users are never the same, are permanently changed. That 'I'm a bad arse, entreprenerial, arse burning fucker, the truth', always is in there somewhere. Permanently displacing the truth. As Mel said, the actual truth is too fucked to ever be told. When I was in Ballina an epidemic hit. Hard arse 'boys' everywhere. Makes them run really fast too. It came to a head when a local guy was set upon by a pack of 'boys' with golf clubs walking home. He thought it was some friends pulling over for a chat, and got smashed in the face with a golf club, and they pounded him with golf clubs off their trees. My friend that helped Carrol stayed with me up there, and started trying to help all these local 'legends' that sought him out. It used to dumbfound me that a guy so brilliant could be so gullible. I used to tell him it was ludicrous writing out all these programs and diets for a bunch of coke and ice addicts, and was dumbfounded that he hadn't learned from his previous encounters with the same thing, and to just fuck them off. It all ate him up in the end. The 'big boys'. Fuckin' rippers, write a novel about em'.

carpetman, 1389764359

Also, for those interested... panel discussion revolving around the movie, it's characters & stories; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB0ia3Rgh6o

many-rivers, 1389781758

Well an honest discussion about drug use isn't where I thought this thread would wander but it is sad to reflect on the impact it has by leaving many people unable to be , what, themselves?
Peter Mel is now older so maybe he has the maturity to discuss his experiences openly now ?
The one message I didn't expect to get from comments was how prevalent some think drug use is throughout the surf industries.
Sure you hear rumours , hear tales but I'd mostly thought the industry was driven by hard hearted , cold blooded accountants and media and advertising consultants. Seems not.
More like a bunch of good old boys taking the ride as far as they can!
If I think about this further then why would a culture of personal integrity have any chance of developing? Couple that with harsh economic situations in places with few opportunities and the North Shore's history is more easily explicable.
The comment that the surf media won't touch the subject may be right now but someday someone will let the truth out. Now there's a great movie!

mothart, 1389787387

Nobody wants to talk a about the elephant in the room?
Your talking about drugs and the north shore/hawaii.
A.I. the islands/worlds best contest surfer is tragically lost...

benski, 1389789229

Is the surf industry different from any other in it's drug culture? Entertainment industry (film, tv and music) is clearly drug addled. The stories from the finance industry are coke heavy, no?

I'm not talking about young kids who get mixed up but happen to surf, I'm talking about industry figures and it's media. It's pretty much everywhere in the upper levels of society that I don't think the surf industry could be that much different. But I say all that as a total outsider. I have no idea myself, just the feeling I have. They're everywhere so why should we expect the surf industry to be any different?

And to be clear, I'm not condoning or condemning, just wondering.

thermalben, 1389816897

Nah I don't think the surf industry is any different to any other industries Benski. It's just that surfing's 'image' has been so heavily manufactured over the last few decades that the use of narcotics seems to be a big surprise to many people.

freeride76, 1389822735

Exactly.

The surfing culture- counter-culture- of the mid to late sixties and seventies was clearly and well documentedly drug addled. That doesn't ipso facto make drugs part of the surfing DNA but it was deeply ingrained at a critical time in it's history when the surf media was created and the whole commercial apparatus which sprung up around surfing was born.
Pro surfing's birth created the imperative to clean up that image of surfing and surfers as drug fcuked dole bludgers to appeal to mainstream money.
Hence, not so much a conspiracy, as a general atmosphere of secrecy, of creating this new anodyne reality permeated the entire machine from pros to surf media. It was necessary. As the surf media became ever more tightly intertwined with the surf industry that became ever more ingrained. The surf media became a defacto marketing arm for the surf industry and cheerleader for prosurfing.
The well trod career path for surf journalists was straight into the marketing departments of the surf industry, a job they had moreorless been performing anyway.

benski, 1389825649

Yeah for sure. I'm just surprised people are surprised.

But it does explain why bodhi won the fisticuffs against warchild in point break. He was the clean living pure surfer. The real one.

But then he turned out to be the one robbing banks.

Woah.

mikehunt207, 1389829934

There are many varying degrees of people; Hawaiian, local, philpino, portagee,haole and tourist in the islands and it is very easy to talk shit about what you would and would not do if and when you go to Hawaii. Be a quiet Haole and stay out of the scene / politics when visiting there, don,t drop in (or take off behind some people) and you should be fine, but always remember it is a very small place to fuck up with someone, particularly "Uncle Eddie", even from the relative safety of you keyboard here in Australia.

blindboy, 1389843440

[quote=mikehunt207]There are many varying degrees of people; Hawaiian, local, philpino, portagee,haole and tourist in the islands and it is very easy to talk shit about what you would and would not do if and when you go to Hawaii. Be a quiet Haole and stay out of the scene / politics when visiting there, don,t drop in (or take off behind some people) and you should be fine, but always remember it is a very small place to fuck up with someone, particularly "Uncle Eddie", even from the relative safety of you keyboard here in Australia.[/quote]
I think that last sentence explains why the truth rarely gets told. If you are dealing with people who are known not only for making intimidating threats, but also carrying them out, silence is the safest way to go, with some good old fashioned arse licking thrown in just to make sure. And that has been just as true of our home grown thugs as the Hawaiian variety.

wellymon, 1389848729

Politics, Drugs and Alcohol, some of man's many foes.

King hitting or hitting people for no real apparent reason is a weak act in my eyes.

A young bloke had to be cut off from life support by his parents the other day, king hit by a young psycho for no reason.

trippergreenfeet, 1389862798

Unfortunately those young psychos become old psychos when allowed to have their way when young.

silicun, 1389863773

Thats a good point Welly, the discussion tends to focus on illegal recreational drugs and there is little point trying to deny that it hasnt been a destructive part of surf culture.

I worked for sometime in elite sports and can say that there is little to set surfing apart from other sports, drug abuse isnt confined to surfing and surfing wouldnt be highlighted as a sport with a particular problem. Cycling is well known for its rampant drug use the difference being that it has mostly been performance enhancing drugs which dont have the same stigma as illegal recreational drugs but there have been dozens of arrests and bans placed on athletes and coaches and other staff for using and distributing these drugs. My time at the Australian institute of Sport bought me into contact with many olympic stars who routinely were getting wasted on anything and everything. Two are now doing prison time for dealing.

Alcohol use is rampant across most sports and has caused similar destruction as has the drug use seen in surfing. The difference being alcohol is widely accepted being a legal drug, however its use and promotion by mainstream sports such as footy and cricket perpetuate the cultural acceptance of alcohol abuse and the problems it creates in society as you mentioned Welly.

Its heartbreaking to hear of stories like the young kid who lost his life after a night out on the town, I cant imagine anything worse than getting a call from the coppers to say that my daughter/son had been comatose/knocked out/killed simply going out for the night. The sad thing is no one wants to talk about the culture of alcohol fuelled violence. Its interesting to compare the Australian Cricket teams response to Glen McGrath's wife dying of cancer and David Hooks dying from a king hit out on the piss, one generates a massive campaign the other doesnt rate a mention??

trippergreenfeet, 1389868418

In regards to the king hits and pissy violence, Danny Green has made a bold statement with his response to the thugs that perpetrate such violence.

silicun, 1389869185

How great is Danny Green, putting his own money up to produce an anti-violence ad, my hats off to him for sure. Ill be interested to hear if anything comes out of other sporting arena's, id be surprised to hear from footy or cricket due to the sponsorship dollars despite the fact that both sports have been directly impacted by alcohol violence. Just this week another footy player was jailed for two years for punching someone to the ground and stomping on their head. Sadly Danny's ad does not address the problem of alcohol consumption and focusses on the violence, suggesting that people think twice before they lash out at somebody. The problem as we all know is that alcohol effects your judgement and the violence often occurs because people are too affected to make good judgements, to think twice so to speak.

wellymon, 1389870842

[quote=trippergreenfeet]Unfortunately those young psychos become old psychos when allowed to have their way when young.[/quote]

That is so true, I so appreciate my upbringing as a young fella.

wellymon, 1389873260

Yeah Silicun, What I was trying to get across from referring to king hits was at the start of the thread, Rabbit getting punched, Eddie Rothman punching the Billabong Exc. Only takes one and theres someones life gone.
Alcohol defiantly fuels the fire in some of those occasions, brings back memories of getting king hit at the Marlin Hotel, Ulladullah, totally knocked out, gone. Some guy actually died not long before my incident there.
Maybe this is why Danny Green is doing his thing for anti-violence..? A: He knows what it is like to get your jaw shuffled side ways with a good blow, or B: He might be feeling guilty of these actions before...?

Politicians ? Well they are always going blow to blow, seen some funny footage from Russia I think ,where many members of the cabinet were brawling, Politicians..?

As for drugs, drugs have been used in all cultures and species for thousands of years, the indigenous people mainly for shamanic or similar reasons (DMT based), my Jack Russell who licks cane toads and starts tripping ( I was later told by our vet ), I could never figure out why he ran round the lounge a thousand miles an hour, frothing at the mouth. Even dolphins eating some kind of fish....? which they have finally discovered.
The difference now days is money and greed, greed can be lots of things, as you mentioned Silicun cycling and olympics which bears the winning streak in someone ? The greedy human mind that loves stepping away from reality and ends up in a heap in the gutter.
The Human Race......! These attributes may coincide with the politics in the Hawaiian Islands !

silicun, 1389875314

Couldnt agree with you more. To expound on your views of greed IMO this comes from the pervasiveness of competition in western society. It is seen as a most desirable trait to be competitive, to keep up with the Joneses, its something that gets drilled into us all through our lives from when we are children, through school and through our working and personal lives - to get ahead. Some societies dont exist like this, there is more emphasis put on sharing and there is no place for greed. In the question of this post I would put the imposition of western culture ahead of drug use as a cause of both the drug use and the antagonism, as many rivers points out the, 'obvious local dispossession/poor economic advancement with the glossy tourist babble.' illustrates the inequities that this imposition has created, couple that with a culture that says you are worthless unless you have the condo, the fourby or whatever and there is gonna be antagonism.

freeride76, 1389909460

Don't know if you can pin competitiveness on western society.

Neanderthal and cro-magnon man competed for scarce resources.

Sure, hunter gatherer society had to evolve moreorless egalitarian structure to deal with the hard problem of hunting large predators but by the time agriculture happened in the Fertile Crescent it was back to hoarding and warring tribes/states.

hem-stret, 1389915115

Ive always been curious about how the west coast crew have been lambasted in the aussie surf media, while the hawaiian localism was sort of dressed up as a meritorious crusade. Even going back to when one of my favourite aussie surfers, Micky Campbell stood up to A.I when Irons was in full wanker mode and snotted him in the U.S. Do you reckon he was hassled and intimidated in Hawaii when his run at a world title was going down to pipeline? Of course the weak ass aussie surf media keep the glowing accolades of A.I and never really backed our fella. Could you get any more aussie than a ginger from Macquarie? The other weak bullshit I see is how we openly attack christian religion ( sometimes very warranted? But tiptoe around the muslim evils/devils. Religion has never been more than the CCTV of medieval times. The real issue today is the class war, the moneyed up and those that work to keep the rich rich. while we are all bogged down in stupid racist mudslinging and religious differences, the black rich hammer the blacks as much as the white rich take everything from everyone as well. We will get our comeuppance very soon from the asian billionares, and I dont reckon the russion oligarches are gonna pull any punches either. In terms of the drug issue, the real elephant is the room is the big pharma, doping up society with unnecessary drugs, you only have to look at what they are doing to the oldies and all the deaths from adverse reactions and improper dosing to all ages society. but again we champion the medical brigade and attack easy targets like the recreational user. why is ice so prevalent? is it because ephedrine is shepherded into out society because its in so many of our prescribed life shortening medical pills? we say we have won the war on heroin yet opioid addiction is higher than it has ever been, the source being the painkillers dealt out in pharmacies? the evil weed being stamped out yet anti anxiety pills are in the cupboards of many family homes and offices in australia. some have well paid lobby groups, with the legal system protecting the powerful ( developers, pharma, etc) and filling up our privatised prison systems with those that stand their ground or choose their own way. The everyday man caught in in the minutiae of life, paying bills, trying to get the best insurance, best phone plan, get the kids to a good school, and mums reading new idea about celebrity breakups and cellulite, how to put makeup on to be an acceptable friend at the local cafe. We have our sights aimed so low..................I think Tools line from Aenima sums it up for me...'dumbfounded dipshits'

grug, 1389917278

Nice rant hem-street! I think you nearly have everything covered… i agree with every word. Tool have summed it up about 100 times over… should be more gems in the new album when it comes out in the next century… though Maynard may be too content these days to stay at his biting best.

Money is king. There is no transparency in any industry where money is the goal as image needs to be protected at all costs. This leads to a lack of transparency and bullshit spin on all fronts. The west coast crew are lambasted because no one is making money from their image. It is just locals that work and surf and live. The image of the north shore is worth too much. Arses must be both licked and shielded. It will only get worse with Zosea as they have a lot of mula riding on their 'investment'.

blindboy, 1389942578

.......I always loved Tool for quoting Nietzcshe in a song

".....if consequences dictate a course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught!" Jerk Off

uplift, 1389948086

This is a good summary too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDaOgu2CQtI

many-rivers, 1390029912

hem -stret commented "I've always been curious about how the west coast crew have been lambasted in the aussie surf media, while the hawaiian localism was sort of dressed up as a meritorious crusade. '
This is one of the main points I'm trying to get an examination/discussion of ( not only the aussie media) and low and behold what does The Inertia post but the following-
http://www.theinertia.com/surf/a-call-to-action-take-back-lunada-bay/
This is a thread about what a pack of ratbags one bunch of locals are in LA.( please don't bother to tell me if it is some other county- it is just south of LA airport.)
The response seems to be to invade the spot and hassle the locals.
Have a read of the thread - the comments are a mix of aggro and explanations, trolling and abuse.
Sorry hem-stret but I posted there using your pointedly salient argument but as usual for The Inertia they have no response .
At the same time they have another article about hanging out on the Nth Shore and honest to God the guy is just dribbling away in a weird sort of fawning suck up to just , you know be there, near his personal gods man!!
I always wondered about the controversy in the 60's when one legend wondered how gay the whole scene was but hey it takes all types. Anyone remember who made this statement ? Hemmings? Downing?
Parts of the same crew which could well be intimidating others and hanging with thugs and dealers- well that's cool but if anyone else acts that way well they are criminals and we should all just remember that surfing is a peaceful recreation and share the love and the waves according to the moderator on Inertia.
OK , so others have said that the reason for the tolerance of the thugs on the Nth Shore is that the Pipe Masters or whatever it is called these days is the event of every year , that the thugs WILL bash and maim you and that somehow this is accepted.Hey give them jobs as security and let's pretend they are our bestest buddies.....
It just isn't accepted if you try it anywhere else. Well I have had friends have run ins in Indo with Hawaiians (and others with Brazzos) and for me that is stepping way past the mark.
The media , if they want to be anything other than a withered limb of the clothing industry need to get their arses into gear and stop grovelling to some while condemning others for the same behaviour.
Mr Weisberg has just about zero credibility at the moment so I guess taking the bucks is all it is about.
A clear statement of intent on the home page would be wise I'd suggest - '"Our pledge - We are here to suck up to thugs and accept dough from the industry while pushing product at the gullible. "
Wasn't the internet 2.0 meant to be a process of liberation and new freedoms for us all? No.............pity though.

many-rivers, 1390030144

I will recommend the writer of the thread, one Rory Parker. He has a sharp sense of humour .
I've paid him the compliment of saying he is the US' Rod Cunthorpe!

hem-stret, 1390032187

No worries many -rivers. I think grug probably hit the nail on the head, money is influence and somehow if you lick nuts long enough you might be able to hang with the bruddahs........ I don't mid localism done well, ie, to bring some sense of order or discipline if you will. But when it is blatant harassment and intimidation it is ruinous. I surfed an epic little out of the way spot a couple of days ago, you couldnt find a better looking place and the waves were 8/10. But there were crew just arse dumping all over the place, not even being discreet and burying it all. It looked like a soweto refugee camp in one of the most pristine places on earth. A booger taking long walled set waves going straight and doing those silly belly spins...........amongst all that one of the semi local guys paddled inside me for the 5th time. As a good set wave came in he told me it was my turn......first time that's ever happened to me anywhere and I went in on a sick one. A surfing experience dichotomy that day. I guess respect for the environment and quietly respecting the crew would make things a bit easier all round. I am prejudiced on the boogers though........I dont get those things unless you are surfing boomer beach or waimea shorey . Maybe I need to open the mind a bit...but geez it seems like a waste of a good wave sometimes.
Re tool, we do need to hear from those fellas again, Maynard did a bit with Puscifer but it was a pretty onshore affair that one.
USA's own Rod Cunthorpe......ha. Wheres Goodvibes when you need him.

brutus, 1390057950

I think everybody overlooks the point that Surfing is Anarchy.....there are no written or enforcable rules,except what the resident/local surfers say and do!

Every surfspot is different because of the people who claim to be locals or whatevers!

Hawaii has had such a radical history from the days of the wild west when violence reigned,drugs were prolific,dealers were vying for their markets,Hawaiins were invaded by mainlanders/Brazilians/Australians all claiming waves and setting up their respective cultural embassies on the North Shore.

the same has happened at surf spots all over the world..South America is a classic where some countires surf spots are run by Seppos.......or Brazilians...

So the core problem seems to be that surfing is anarchy...survival of the fittest......and all the asociated problems that go with a lawless sport/art form.

dellabeach, 1390178566

Craig, 1390179300

Great post Dellabeach, and good wave of putting it.

This thread has been insightful, some great input and thoughtful conversation.

blindboy, 1390187622

I think surfers are actually highly socially skilled. In my experience true violence is very rare and while heated verbal exchanges occur more often they are highly ritualised and act as ways of defusing tension. If you put that into the context of a highly competitive sport dominated by younger males in which there are very often too few waves to go around, I think it is a real cultural achievement, which is why we continually need to maintain the line on violence. The local standard is pretty clear, pull that shit and you are persona non grata with all that applies in terms of wave count. One of my proudest moments was when some meathead grabbed one of the younger crew and tried to hold his head under water. He had a local on each arm in about 5s. He then said " So that's how it is round here, one in all in? " about ten of us looked around at each other and nodded our heads in unison. He wasn't threatened, it was just made absolutely clear that we weren't having that crap.

stray-gator_2, 1390251288

[quote=blindboy]I think surfers are actually highly socially skilled. In my experience true violence is very rare and while heated verbal exchanges occur more often they are highly ritualised and act as ways of defusing tension. ... One of my proudest moments was when some meathead grabbed one of the younger crew and tried to hold his head under water. He had a local on each arm in about 5s. He then said " So that's how it is round here, one in all in? " about ten of us looked around at each other and nodded our heads in unison. He wasn't threatened, it was just made absolutely clear that we weren't having that crap.[/quote]

This happened at Blacks, right? I think I know the bloke you're describing.

grog-an, 1390289226

Some cocky little 49kg pipsqueak probably paddled inside and snaked him on a 2 footer

hem-stret, 1390291246

"The great majority of surfers adhere to the unwritten rules in order to ensure a pleasant experience for everyone, no police, no fines, no guns, no jail."
excellent..................or, if we have guns in society, we all have them........................ govts are the biggest killers on the planet, always have been, because they can I suppose.............

Shirky Mcgurky, 1390293384

Was interested to know if anyone who has visited the North Shore witnessed much in the way of Hawaiian v Hawaiian smack downs? For locals i imagine it would be easier to tolerate the bully boys regulating the line ups in such an intense and crowded area, if their actions made it easier for you to get a wave. The fact that the most notorious offenders seem to be blow ins from Kauai or Philadelphia also gives a degree of separation.

uplift, 1390296972

' He had a local on each arm in about 5s'

Actually, to set the record straight, its usually 2 or 3 locals on each arm, if I'm doing bicep curls, but 10 or so an arm for deadlifts and squats.

Camster, could you verify that please...

brutus, 1390321205

Brutus, as an anarchist, I would like to point out that Anarchy is not the absence of rules, it is the absence of rulers, the absence of government. It is the way most of us prefer to lead our lives. Surfing is anarchical, as there is no hierarchical, armed group forcing you to follow their particular rules but there are rules. The great majority of surfers adhere to the unwritten rules in order to ensure a pleasant experience for everyone, no police, no fines, no guns, no jail. The core problem is not that surfing is anarchy, that is one of the best things about it, the problem is that some surfers are less socialised than others.

Hi Dellabeach

As there are various definitions of Anarchy,the one I am using is ," a society without publicly enforced Government,which can mean political disorder or lawlessness."

There are couple of ways you can interpret this......that there are are publicly enforced groups who control the surf as in various surf breaks around the world...so this is not anarchy but.......what we are discussing here the boys from Hawaii controlling their surf....which seems fair enough..

or that anarchy is a society where we all co-exist without any authority..........so we would all like to think that anarchy in surfing would be great.....if we all were anarchists...

so I did misuse the term anarchy in describing surfing as a whole,as its pretty obvious that there is a loose system of publicly enforced rules by there being locals...

so we here in Australia would find it hard to criticize Hawaii's system...it is what it is ..its their way of life like it or not.....
So thanx Dellabeach...you have clarified something for me I have been wrestling with for years.......ahhh ain't education wonderful......

blindboy, 1390338297

Brutus I am all for locals exerting some control over their home breaks but I think the line has to be drawn at violence. Locals can exert their control by shaming poor behaviour, acting to limit the waves of those who indulge in it and by defusing conflicts with humour. I know that the consequences of bad behaviour in heavy waves can be life threatening and I understand that from time to time people may lose their cool but that is very different to a clear pattern of intimidation based on the threat of violence. Surfing can be anarchic, it used to be almost Hobbesian, the war of all against all, but in my experience we have never tolerated outright thuggery. I would like to think that is still true.

freeride76, 1390339975

What are you talking about Blindboy?

What this royal "we".

It's always been tolerated.

Thats why this thread exists.

Don't mistake your civilised corner of the world for the whole.

blindboy, 1390341309

Well I get around a bit freeride, up and down the NSW coast, Victoria recently, various parts of Indonesia and Japan in the last few years, maybe I'm just lucky but I am happy to apply the "we" , royal or otherwise, to that vast majority of surfers who go about their business peaceably and expect others to do the same.

brutus, 1390342324

yeah blindboy I agree in theory,but depending on where you surf...eg Hawaii has had a history on violence since the Hawaiian Island were settled...throw in being disposed of their lands,guns as prevalent as we have screwdrivers,a drug culture that was gang orientated ,a surf destination that has been overrun by everybody else but Hawaiians.....maybe there are is a sense of dispossession,frustration.........and the threat of violence has reared its ugly head.....

I have seen first hand these last 2 winters in Hawaii some of the kooks in the water being so dangerous...last year one of my best friends Eric Arakawa,was duck diving at Lanikea,when an out of control longboarder broke his leg in 3 pieces....the guy was so out of his surfing ability zone...ahhhhh

I offer the Hawaiian observations as merely that and don't condone violence!!

freeride76, 1390342334

Humanity is a violent species BB. None of the things surrounding you and which you take entirely for granted are free from that human stain. The computer you typed on, for example.
Surfing is no different.
Civilisation may have laid on a slightly thicker veneer since Leviathan (debatable) but the cosmic drama continues unabated.
Was there sanction when Fast Eddie slugged Stapleburg? Or any of the other countless violent incidents in Hawaii?
No. Ergo it is tolerated .
Yes, the vast majority are peaceable but they turn a blind eye when the local enforcer/pyscho gets rough.
I think on the east coast of Aus, surfing has become less violent relative to the mainstream culture, which has become infatuated with steroids and MMA. Also the hot kids want to be sponsored so they have an image to uphold.
There's still a few hardheads around here though who'll punch on and when they do there ain't no-one local calling the cops on them.

blindboy, 1390344109

.......well one hot head at Narrabeen ended up in court a couple of years ago with a AV order that effectively prevented him from surfing there......so it does happen. I don't think it is something that should be done lightly but in Australia at least it's an option and is justified if there is a pattern of deliberate intimidation backed up by actual violence.
......and we are a violent species which is why we have a responsibility to keep a lid on it whenever humanly possible. While, as you point out, there are exceptions, I think surfers have done a pretty good job at that over the years.

trippergreenfeet, 1390352186

[quote=brutus]yeah blindboy I agree in theory,but depending on where you surf...eg Hawaii has had a history on violence since the Hawaiian Island were settled...throw in being disposed of their lands,guns as prevalent as we have screwdrivers,a drug culture that was gang orientated ,a surf destination that has been overrun by everybody else but Hawaiians.....maybe there are is a sense of dispossession,frustration.........and the threat of violence has reared its ugly head[/quote]

This intimidation and violence is just an extension of the ancient pre-existing Hawaiian culture.
Before the British arrived, Hawaii was ruled by a strict Caste system, and upheld with fear...the threat of violence and / or death. Whether from a lower caste, a law breaker, a prisoner of war or political oponent - one step out of line and the fist of the strong dominated.
Just be thankful the use of human sacrifice is no longer tolerated to sort out transgressions, only a good beating and / or exile in it's place.

blindboy, 1390358811

Hey brutus the best gun I ever surfed was an Arakawa. Not mine unfortunately. Ketut Pitur lent it to me for Outside Corner and G Land. 7'10 from memory and once you were in it felt like a 6'2" . I think it had been made for Margot Oberg originally and she had passed it on to Ketut. So I wish him a quick return to the shaping bay!
I haven't been to Hawaii for a long time so I can't comment on the present circumstances there but, having narrowly avoided being smacked in the head by a thrown away mal yesterday, it definitely raises the hackles. I ended up telling the guy to go in for his own safety as much as everyone else's. He took it pretty well. It was only 3-4ft but crowded and he couldn't even paddle properly.

brutus, 1390362348

eric is the master....and he's now been out of the water for 1 year.....the frustration of uneducated surfers is.....ahhhh......I had to paddle him in and if there had have been a set....he would have lost his leg,I wonder what the boys would have thought about the mal rider sneaking off and not even offering to help..

the frustration levels I think in crowded surf is at an all time high.....everywhere!

reecen, 1390362574

Why is it that when there is an accident in the surf people seem to think it is ok to not help out? Happens way to often in crowded surf where someone hurts someone else and pretends it didn't happen.

Craig, 1390363740

I haven't seen that occurring around my local reecen, if someone is hurt, beginner or not there's usually a lot of people there to quickly help and assist.

Not that i've seen it occur to often amazingly.

PS can't believe no one helped Eric out, and also if his leg was that bad, surely the longboarder knew he hit him??

reecen, 1390364509

Yeah I agree there usually is a lot of people that help out but I have seen it a few times now when people have been run over or been hit by a board and the person who's board did the damage magically vanishes and leaves the job of help to others.

brutus, 1390364987

Hey Craig...I stay with Eric every year,it was a miracle that I just happened to be there when it happened,and I got him in ...no sets for 10 mins.....1 wave would have taken his leg off as it was hanging there.......some people just don't care......couldn't even get angry as was so worried for him...but I can tell ya there werer a few local life guards hunting....but as I said to em..if it doesn't help eric ...I am not interested in revenge!!!

many-rivers, 1390382399

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq86SA2UKXg
some info - a direct statement about poverty - an issue not remarked upon by many.
A mainstream media analysis including some aussie perspective and history.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqqS8lYYSdk

Stump, 1391050426

I always get a giggle of all the sharks that bite MCs bait. He's an elder. Been there done that. However some seem to think he's a sap. I'm sure he just baits up his hook from time to time when he's bored and nek Minnit bang he's on.
Shapes a filth board had a couple. Love a barrel. Shame he's Victorian. Haha

batfink_and_karate, 1392032900

"You mentioned Rabbit getting beaten up 35 years ago (winter of '77 from memory). After that happened a local came up to him and gave him a copy of 'Hawaii' by James Michener, which is perhaps the most telling fact about that whole incident. Hawaiians have seen their culture almost totally destroyed by white man, first by the Catholic missionaries, and then annexure by the United States. The last bastion of independence and connection to the 'way things were' is the sport of surfing. Rabbit and Kanga and other loudmouth Australians were ignorantly trying to show the Hawaiians 'how to surf'."

Yeah, but no, but yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have read Hawaii, it wasn't just about the white man, the Japanese and many others used and abused the intrinsic aloha spirit, and basically the Hawaiians were just ripe for the picking by the hardest working.

While USA did come in over the top, there was some reason behind it and the local politics accepted it as the lesser of two evils. Whether it was the right choice or not is up for grabs, but as for the Australian aboriginals, they inhabited a pristine and beautiful, and bountiful (that is key) land. Some group who was both hard working and unscrupulous was going to come in and take over at some stage.

It is easy to demonise the colonisers, but it has to be remembered that someone was going to colonise them.

As for Hawaii, I wish there was some way they could have survived independently, but given the times that was not an option. It is strategically placed between USA and Asia, particularly Japan. Strategic lands aren't left alone, that is just historical inevitability.

But I feel for them. Let's remember also that the average Hawaiian was not allowed to surf, it was the sport of kings.

The small amount of time I spent in Hawaii surfing I was super- humble, didn't look twice at anyone, sat way inside, took only the waves that had already passed every surfer by, and got stink-eye big time. All up, most annoying.

I have no plans to go back, if their lands were stolen and they don't want me there, I can't in good conscience go there. That's the bottom line for me.

crustt, 1392066316

[quote=batfink_and_karate]

But I feel for them. Let's remember also that the average Hawaiian was not allowed to surf, it was the sport of kings.

The small amount of time I spent in Hawaii surfing I was super- humble, didn't look twice at anyone, sat way inside, took only the waves that had already passed every surfer by, and got stink-eye big time. All up, most annoying.

I have no plans to go back, if their lands were stolen and they don't want me there, I can't in good conscience go there. That's the bottom line for me.[/quote]

This is true, I asked my mate how they can put up with all these bloody boogie boarders. He pointed out to me that in days gone by only royalty was allowed to stand up while riding a wave.

Batfink you were probably getting the stink eye cause that's what you were expecting it, a bit like walking into a shop and not getting service, the more pissed off you get the more invisible you become.
I have never had any bad vibe in the surf over there, look people in the eye and say hello, works better. I think the Hawaiians call it the Aloha spirit. :-)

palmymick, 1392087047

Looks like the Goldy is pursuing its own 'enforcement'. Nasty one.
Says old mate is an ab diver. Wonder if he's from SA and the perpetrator has been reading the comments from the SA west coast boys and thought he better make a pre-emtive strike!

http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/news/gold-coast/mark-morlock-is-the-victim-of-a-sickening-surf-rage-at-snapper-rocks-but-wont-press-charges/story-fnj94idh-1226823261266

TreborHI, 1471732830

Funny, stumbled across this thread and recognized crustt's story about glassing boards in Waikiki. Met you in Haleiwa about 20 years ago.