Blowin, 1550219289
Trump is the modern incarnation of the Y2K bug.
Brought the same cranks out of the woodwork.
sharkman, 1550258144
gee blowin ,manafort pleads guilty to accepting money from the Russians , when he was Trumps campaign manager , interesting to see what sentence he will get?
Trump has now created an emergency on the borders when all the Stats show the opposite , the enviroment is being trashed again over in the USA...Nth Korea , what a dumbfuck Trump is to believe that NK will disarm...now the Wall...record bankruptcies for Farmers who are suffering from the Trade war....hate crimes on the increase still in the USA...yeah no affect from him....LOL
freeride76, 1550266112
Wonder what would happen if surfboards became part of the trade war?
Blowin, 1550267449
Sharkman would be wearing a MAGA hat.
Jokes.
It’d likely be less money for Kelly and a more reliable income for your average American shaper. That’s the one thing that the free trade Neolibs and fake lefters don’t want you to realise ....protectionism protects people .
China would be nothing without the absolute protectionism which has enabled its incredible economic trajectory .
Isn’t it strange that xenophobia is used as the ultimate pejorative if someone hesitates to embrace the catastrophically disruptive, globalist new world order but if it looks like the possibility that globalisation isn’t as preordained as they thought and that change may be in the air , they shit their pants and cry foul ?
So basically it’s all working class jobs becoming dis functionally poorly paid as a result of globalisation is acceptable, but if the few remaining US farmers who haven’t been overwhelmed by the multinationals need to accept less money in order to bolster the US frontlines in an ultimately beneficial trade war with China then its rivers of tears from the borderless internationalists.
Blowin, 1550267949
Don’t think anyone ever thought that Nth Korea would get rid of their nukes .Why would they when everyone one else has them and it’s their only guarantee they won’t get invaded ?
I reckon Australia needs nukes !
The smart thing to do would be to disarm Kim with kindness and remove the threat of possible irrational conflict as is happening and as hopefully happening with Russia.
Didn’t the Cold War teach you anything ?
50 years of razors edge , mutual antagonism .....all for what ? We don’t have to agree with their domestic politics, but as long as they’re not planning on expanding into our sphere - as China is - then let’s just live and let live.
As for farmers losing their income in the USA , it’s short term pain for long term gain. China will not need US farmers much longer anyway as it’s strategic objective is to create its own independent agriculture supply chain as they are already doing by buying agricultural land throughout the world including Australia. The Chinese market for US farmers will not last much longer anyway .
The US has basically deindustrialised and handed their manufacturing base to China. This trade war is a step in the right direction to correcting that situation, or at least halting its progression into the other sectors which US still maintains strength such as technology. It is also a clever way to destabilise the increasing threat of an expansionist China.
Maybe you should understand it as the US government taxing the importation of Chinese made surfboards in order to prevent the complete destruction of their board building industry. Once that knowledge is lost , they may never get it back !
Only the surfboard industry has never supported masses of workers as the lost manufacturing base did and was never an essential industry to maintain US independence in case of war or other threatening times.
Agree with the issue of Trump and the environment.....what a wanker.
PS That Manafort bloke lied about communications with a Russian with supposed ties to the state. I imagine that Russia is like China in that if you want to get anywhere you ally yourself with the criminals in power . Therefore everyone is tied to the state. This does not mean that all of their actions concern the state or are related to intelligence matters. Maybe these two shonky bastards were planning a deal of some sort , does this necessarily mean that it was unquestionably related to Russia thwarting US democracy and Putin installing a puppet president......fuck no.
truebluebasher, 1550307713
Bush/Chaney's 2009 - 10 year Haliburton war contracts end 2019
We see Trump tear up Chaney's sanction busting rort contracts.
Last cheque ink is barely dry... soon as the clock strikes midnight.
Ding Ding...perfectly timing for next Republican Plunderer!
Trump's National Emergency...Virtual invasion he calls it.
Trump Tower bankrolled by blank queue 10yr defence deals from his fake War.
Nice & sleazy does it everytime!
Meanwhile the real National 'Firearms' Emergency killing spree goes on & on & on.
sharkman, 1550317541
Ha Manafort , prosecution recommending 19-24 years jail for him , monet laundering /spying accepting funds ...alll from Russia as head ofTrumps election campaign....stone?
Border emergency hahhaaaha, those stable genius's are nearly as bad as their supporters LOL!
factotum, 1550332156
Who in their right mind - not Right mind (a bit of an oxymoron anyways) - and Australian (!) would try and prop up this fool??
Why??
Blowin, 1550391524
Because sometimes his unique approach pays dividends
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/10/trump-might-win-his-trade-war-with-china/?utm_term=.713ae3673176
factotum, 1550399474
Or spray that much absolute shite some fellow numb-nuts think wee bits of it stick.
And then there's Trump!!!!
happyasS, 1550402049
To be fair Trump will be the reason Australia might consider needing nukes. Luckily we can't afford anything but the pissiest capability.
truebluebasher, 1550436050
Trumps fake war is as unique as Howard's fake weapon's of Mass destruction.
Johnny treasons coalition of willing to stitch up Butcher of Baghdad solo trade deal.
Hundreds of Australians + Half a million dead! {R.I.P}
Off with traitor Howard the Coward's head? No! > Besteva PM mate! Oi Oi Oi!
Trump invents war with bedraggled door knockers. Awards 10yr defence Casinos.
National disgrace War Criminal? No! Bestever Sir...BESTEVER! USA USA USA!
Let's bloody well pray the world stops electing 'unique' dumbass War criminals.
[factcheck] 25% of World's Worst are on USA side of wall.(Ask: Wiki/USA/www)
Wall cost $8 billion for one brick so far...(re: Trump's Shutdown loss to US economy)
Trump's bankrolling invaders $250,000 each for a more civil productive society.
Blowin, 1550442008
Construction worker remuneration in the USA has dropped on average by 70 percent in real terms in 40 years due to illegal workers undermining wage structures.
This is the war that is being fought.
sharkman, 1550444379
haha..shapers have lost about 400% in the last 40 years , so you are right , lets ban all Asian made surfboards , and MSGA!
Blowin, 1550444887
But Kelly needs the money !
sharkman, 1550447868
haha yeah you are right , we need the great evils of money and power to color our lives ...that's the new world order......debt and degrade the planet..
truebluebasher, 1550448143
Sad to hear 70% reduction over 40 years but merely a blimp for conservatives.
Goldie fly-by-night mexican Whiteshoe Brigade is infamous for upping stumps.
I reckon I lost 30% to those crooks once or twice 100% to be sure.
PM Johnny's GST ballooned Oz House Prices 40% to lowest starts on record.
Best Oz tradies or 30 yrs more lost 95% of work/families & many never recovered.
We were contracting Gold Coast #1 AVJ & Dixon Homes + Local builders...
Pre GST we coasted 30 homes a month. GST> Combed 200 kms...3 homes/month.
Yeah & that we scrounged from rival contractors at 30% reduced wage.
Stalking o/n Closed shops for Gold Tickets (Receipts) Johnnies Cartel GST rebates.
Explanation: GST wiped little guys /Big end suppliers ruled with iron fist.(No entry)
Johnny single handedly killed off Great Aussie Dream to this day. (No apology)
Costello flogs airports & telcos to brand LNP as economic Gurus to this day
Johnny's laborious GST decimated Oz Housing/Nation Building/Motor Industry.
War! Is a bit rich isn't it.
Our paid up Oz tradie reps were in bed with our elected Oz traitor.
(LNP Stooges) HIA/MBA/Developers each pickpocketing $15,000 GST Rebates.
With conservative mates batting for the home side...Who needs Mexican bandits.
sharkman, 1550458786
Trump a loser or is he?
https://www.theage.com.au/business/markets/the-art-of-the-fake-victory-lap-in-trump-s-mind-he-never-loses-20190218-p50yfn.html
Blowin, 1550463498
Well he attained the lifelong ambition of every single politician opposing him without actually trying that hard and without wasting his life climbing their self imposed career ladder .
And he’s boxed in the OTHER most powerful person in the world ( Xi Jinping )
And he’ll probably build the wall his supporters voted for and the money will come from the US defence contracts.
So yeah .....victory lap warranted.
sharkman, 1550518964
interesting view blowin , did the russians help him ? He did get 3m less votes than crooked H ,we will know soon!
I would say that the USA is hurting a lot more than China.....they have a long term plan , whereas Trump has just his plan that goes to 2020...farmers are really hurting there is no border crisis , but build that wall ...wasn't Mexico going to pay for the Wall?
Westofthelake, 1550787289
Boo hoo Trump
https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/trump-s-latest-fits-of-rage-are-directed-at-reality-itself-20190221-p50z67.html
blindboy, 1551409973
Some excerpts from a really interestingpiece in the London Review of Books
https://www.lrb.co.uk/v41/n05/david-bromwich/house-cleaning
“Ever since the hostage crisis of 1979-81, the very idea of Iran has triggered dread in millions of Americans, based on no knowledge whatsoever. To find a superstitious fear as drastic and persistent as this, you have to go back to the idea of Injun Country in the old West. But Bolton and Pompeo are men of large ambitions: even as they were reviving the memory of a familiar enemy in the Middle East, they turned the situation in Venezuela into an international crisis by recognising the opposition leader, Juan Guaidó, as the legitimate president. Pompeo went further when he imposed new sanctions and told the world that every country must now ‘pick a side’. Like many such messages from US leaders, the words emanated from that rhetorical limbo where a moral precept has the air of a command and vice versa. (Barack Obama: ‘In Syria, the only way that the civil war will end … is … a government without Bashar Assad.’ George W. Bush: ‘Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists.’) To judge by their previous careers, neither Bolton nor Pompeo shares Trump’s conceit that he can destroy the Iranian regime by a method short of war; on the other hand, Trump may actually be tempted by the promise of military action in Venezuela, where the US can show its muscle quickly and with impunity.”
“Readers of Bob Woodward’s Fear may also remember Trump’s consternation on hearing his lawyer John Dowd mention Mueller’s interest in Deutsche Bank. Woodward reported the reaction without inquiring into its possible cause, but the moment stands out from the mood of that book, an explosion amid the general sprawl of improvisation and inconsequence.
Why might Deutsche Bank matter so much? A knowledgeable veteran of the corporate and finance world explained it as follows. When the New York real estate market and the big banks threw Trump by the roadside, he had to find other sources and shelters to rely on. Deutsche Bank was one. The many Russian purchasers of Trump apartments were another. The Russian government, as Cohen’s testimony showed, was a third. ”
Westofthelake, 1553171069
"You know I will shut down the government to build the wall. I love walls and walls love me. So I went to China to see the Great Wall, and believe me that wall is great. So great is that wall that I never ever once saw a Mexican" - Donald Trump practising in the mirror.
blindboy, 1554011605
The great goose getting cooked in North Korea!
“ What happened at the second Trump–Kim meeting in Hanoi in late February had its roots in last June’s summit in Singapore. In March 2018 Trump leapt to accept a North Korean invitation to meet that envisioned “complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.” He did not stop to learn that this language was not a breakthrough response to his threats of “fire and fury” but rather a phrase Pyongyang has used for more than twenty-five years—beginning with a North–South Korean agreement in 1992—to mean something drastically different from what Americans mean by it. By putting the emphasis on the Korean peninsula rather than just North Korea, Pyongyang means that it would denuclearize after the US signs a peace treaty formally ending the Korean War, ends its defense alliance with South Korea, removes its forces from the peninsula, and withdraws the nuclear umbrella that now protects South Korea and Japan.”
“Plunging ahead to a summit with little preparation and no understanding of this crucial distinction or of the long, sorry history of failed agreements with North Korea, Trump got nothing in Singapore beyond an even vaguer promise from Kim to “work toward” denuclearization.* While Kim gave nothing, Trump gave too much. A meeting with a sitting US president was in itself a highly valued North Korean goal. The enormous global press coverage that came with it, sweetened by Trump’s over-the-top praise of Kim, conferred a degree of international standing the North Korean leader had never before enjoyed.”
https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2019/04/18/trump-kim-korea-meeting-hanoi/
truebluebasher, 1554561079
GC Mayor gains votes by repeatedly promising more Ferries & Cruise Ships.
[factcheck] GC Mayor captains the most pitiful shipping routes since war time.
Past Mayors just went ahead & ran Upriver Ferries no questions asked.(Too easy!)
US President Trump gains votes by repeatedly promising to build Border Wall.
[factcheck] Trump is the only President not to build any new Wall since 1993.
The only additions being 'Trumps wall plaques' on past president's wall. (Sad!)
Past Presidents just went ahead & built the wall no questions asked.(Too easy!)
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trumps-new-border-wall-section-in-california-dates-back-to-obama-administration/
Politics 2019. Leaders do less...Reserving fuel for offspring of brain dead voters.
Regurgitate over & over...I'm gonna do it! [ VOTE 4 ME ] (Cobwebs cover the lot!)
Decades of memoirs all swearing how decisively brave today's leaders were!
tbb can't say sorry enough kidz...every right to sue us, just do it!
IamMark, 1554604369
Trump is a dangerous compulsive liar who is profoundly ignorant. I am baffled as to how we went from Obama the greatest ever US president to this idiot. Please let this nightmare end soon.
Blowin, 1554605334
Trum happened because Obama turned his sight away from all those who have seen their living standards plummet due to globalisation .
It was Obama’s inability to create meaningful change that allowed Trump to get elected.
IamMark, 1554605836
Obama was a visionary who sparked hope in all people but he was blindsided. He was blocked at every turn by the republicans. It was an impossible situation. I bet every one of them would take him back now.
sypkan, 1554606978
Obama was the greatest average US president ever...
". I bet every one of them would take him back now."
I'd bet the house on it that..."every one of them" is a gross overstatement ie. Wrong!
truebluebasher, 1554680245
[U.S breaking news]
Dumb Deal leaked by Master Criminal
(No link to failed Assange Breakout attempt)
https://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/news/world/leaked-turnbulltrump-call-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/news-story/56744d5465e10b1f60434c4748977250
sharkman, 1554681484
blow , "Trum happened because Obama turned his sight away from all those who have seen their living standards plummet due to globalisation .
It was Obama’s inability to create meaningful change that allowed Trump to get elected."
Now the Truth is Obama inherited one of the worst economies/ GFC in USA history , in his 2 terms he reduced unemployment from over 10% to less than 5% , rebooted the economy , called attention to Climate change and showed ,relative to DT, a bit of dignity and class to the oval office. Trump has inherited one of the best performing USA economies in USA history , and already talk of a recession coming because DT really hasn't got much of a clue on economics , doesn't listen to anyone ...except himself in the mirror....Obama fixed shit up, Trump has torn shit down !
Blowin, 1554682964
Trump never would have happened if Obama hadn’t ignored the plight of millions of Seppos who were going backwards during what you described as “ the best performancing USA economies in USA history.”
If the forgotten had been fat , lazy and contented and getting their share of the wealth then Trump would still be currently building unwanted and economically unfeasible Golf courses in towns around the world.
But Obama got on his knees and gobbled the big end of town as the Democrats were want to do right up until Trump made them take a good, long hard look in the mirror.
You getting any waves, Sharkman?
sharkman, 1554688827
yeah Blowin , fun small waves here , supa crowded , but very big tomorrow.....probably 10' +...
I think you are confusing Obama with Hilary and what she didn't do in the election , which was at least visit some of the States that she took for granted....
It's rather Ironic when you visit Seppo land , and watch them get conned by Trump , thinking that they have been left behind...MAGA, they already had the best performing economy in the World , best military , so they were incredibly great already...greed is an amazing state of being , lets see how the USA's economy goes in the next 12 mths and see how the USA's manufacturing/Agriculture sectors perform?
velocityjohnno, 1554691912
http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/unemployment-charts
Link to John Williams' excellent 'Shadowstats', calculating US unemployment as the method was done back in the 80's. Other indicators are worth a look too, and understanding his background and methodology can be enlightening.
AndyM, 1554692372
@sharkman
"at least I sold my soul , profited enormously from the sale , don;t give a rats about surfing in general"
"greed is an amazing state of being"
factotum, 1554693843
A long but fascinating insight into the power of congress in the US.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/12/republican-party-obstructionism-victory-trump-214498
As an aside, did our own Tones and the Libs utilise the lessons learnt from this 'no to everything' strategy?
sharkman, 1554698702
I am actually in the industry to rape and pillage !
sharkman, 1554698779
is the American dream finished??
https://www.theage.com.au/business/markets/the-american-dream-is-lost-billionaire-takes-aim-at-trump-20190408-p51bwb.html
Sheepdog, 1554703304
I don't "hate" Trump.
But I do hate the 2 major parties apathy and greed that got us to this point.
And I hate my fellow shit for brains voters, who seem more interested in a tv show about fake wedding than the deforestation of the east coast of Australalia, that want a "shark free surf" at Tallows and don't mind killing THOUSANDS of sea creatures to do so.
truebluebasher, 1554988262
Trump arrests Assange
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-arrested-ecuadorian-embassy/story?id=62324780
truebluebasher, 1554991182
Julian Assange (US/UK Arrest) unedited.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY6v63jMyl4
sharkman, 1555020796
now Jules , the judge calls you a narcissist , the Swedes and the USA are after you , the, is Pamela still ?
https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/narcissist-assange-found-guilty-of-bail-breach-now-faces-extradition-to-us-20190412-p51dep.html
sypkan, 1555030657
He certainly wasn't going cooperatively. Looks like the rumours of a deal with trump are false
This whole thing is a fucking disgrace, he's is actually the only person in 'media' telling anything close to the truth. Our society is broken. Full of lies and propaganda. How it's come to this in the internet age is unbelievable.
I hope they know what they're up to, there's a certain cohort of net nerds and angry folk who won't like this.
Time for his insurance files?
Just when trump and all the weirdness had become a bit bland, exciting times...
Westofthelake, 1555042103
Trump recently claimed he knew nothing about Wikileaks yet praised them over 100 times in the final leg of the 2016 election campaign. Such an honest fella he is.
https://amp.smh.com.au/world/north-america/i-know-nothing-about-wikileaks-donald-trump-20190412-p51dfj.html
AndyM, 1555044367
"The arrest Thursday of Julian Assange eviscerates all pretense of the rule of law and the rights of a free press.
The illegalities, embraced by the Ecuadorian, British and U.S. governments, in the seizure of Assange are ominous.
They presage a world where the internal workings, abuses, corruption, lies and crimes, especially war crimes, carried out by corporate states and the global ruling elite will be masked from the public."
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-martyrdom-of-julian-assange/
loungelizard, 1555044447
those british judges dont mind a bit of character assassination, morrisey copped a serve he has never got over
AndyM, 1555045606
Character assassination? That's the least of Assange's worries.
The whole thing is not unexpected but it's still fucking chilling.
https://twitter.com/Ruptly/status/1116277306161618944?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1116288726601277440&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thecanary.co%2Fglobal%2Fworld-analysis%2F2019%2F04%2F11%2Fedward-snowden-puts-in-plain-terms-the-terror-of-what-really-just-happened-to-julian-assange%2F
Westofthelake, 1555046123
“The American war against Iraq was among the more idiotic and gratuitous slaughters in human history. It was premised on lies, prosecuted by criminals and fools, outsourced to professional murderers and it isn’t over.
In addition to those murdered directly and indirectly in the war, several million refugees were scattered across the Middle East, including over a million into Syria. ISIS grew from the ranks of the disbanded Iraqi army. This fiasco appeared as it was to all the world, the gasp of a dying empire sunk under the weight of its ignorance and arrogance.”
And Assange is the criminal?....talk about fucked up.
AndyM, 1555046349
That's the power of the corporate media.
In the surf this morning I was talking to a fella who said something like "Aw yeah, but Assange isn't a very nice guy."
The success of propaganda.
GuySmiley, 1555047340
Saw Vice yesterday, a drama based on Dick Cheney's presidency of the US during the imbecile GWB junior's days. A hell of a humanitarian was Dick. So so reassuring we were part of the coalition of the willing.
loungelizard, 1555048372
while having no interest in debating middle east policy with proponents of the great "neoliberal conspiracy" i cant help but point out andym decrying propaganda followed by gs praising "a drama based on..." one mans propaganda is anothers....
AndyM, 1555048791
Fair ol' stretch there LL, the point is barely taken.
loungelizard, 1555050510
its friday..one place the americans really fucked it up that gets little attention is north korea. from what i have read (see above, who knows what the truth really is) its no wonder the north koreans are a bit nuts, and there is no way they will EVER give up their nukes
AndyM, 1555052776
Right now, I'm more interested in Julian Assange.
"Washington is trying to crush a dissident journalist for revealing its crimes. This is an attack on the world’s right to knowledge"
https://www.thecanary.co/global/world-analysis/2019/04/11/edward-snowden-puts-in-plain-terms-the-terror-of-what-really-just-happened-to-julian-assange/
truebluebasher, 1555068645
Oz election called & Day 1 Libs throw Assange Overboard.
Assange is Libs Caretaker Cash Cow say nothing do nothing as Votes roll in.
Like a face on election dart board...Chix hate him as do most blokes...[vote Lib]
Oz PM grinned like a winner when quizzed on TV but isn't he in Caretaker role.
Don't count your Chickens!
All believe that UK will deport Assange to OZ who pass him on to US.
It is supposed that legal clarity determines which crime justifies OZ next move.
The one thing all experts overlook is that Oz is in Caretaker mode (PM is void)
A good Lawyer will argue no Oz Govt was in place at time of Oz citizen's raid.
Which caretaker Oz Pollie knew of Raid upon OZ citizen in UK policed Embassy.
Assange can argue UK/Oz compromised his safety & Aust' Embassy is not safe.
Australian soil may need to protect Assange until Election of new Oz Govt.
US extradition requires Australia ruling...impossible until after 18/May/2019.
So just put him back where you found him until we run our Election you morons.
factotum, 1555072475
A commentator worth following.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/04/chelsea-and-julian-are-in-jail-history-trembles/?fbclid=IwAR16vvhNkB8ZzNCiJTmHZ8KRE_-rZLXq-EFsy3M4A6VqOzrps_djNhj26xc
AndyM, 1555080738
Interesting to see how the online so-called liberal press are reporting Julian Assange -
The Guardian - nothing, zero
ABC - total hatchet job
These outlets will report all day long on clickbait identity politics but not on anything of substance it seems.
No mention of U.S. war crimes, plenty of character assassination.
To their credit, the SMH have gone for the facts and have done a reasonably balanced piece which charts the history of Assange and Wikileaks from start to finish.
From Facto's link above -
"The precedent set by imprisoning a foreign journalist under the Espionage Act will enable the US government to arrest leak publishers anywhere in the world who expose its crimes. This will cripple our ability to hold the most powerful institution on the planet [U.S. military/political/industrial] to account in any way."
truebluebasher, 1555121337
Julie Bishop wife of Oz Foreign Minister 'David' has Trump on the war path.
Oz had no US ambassador so 1st lady thinks all Oz Liberal Pollies are men.(Almost)
Bishop lets slip of Melania's cold shoulder pretty vacant ladies tea party invite. Wot!
Trump pulls his hairs out & orders smartass Austrian bitch to shut the fuck up!
https://startsat60.com/discover/news/politics/julie-bishop-adelaide-festival-speech-melania-trump
sypkan, 1555208075
"Interesting to see how the online so-called liberal press are reporting Julian Assange"
Yep, interesting indeed...
"If you’ve watched the coverage of this story today on television, you likely came away with the understanding that Julian Assange is some form of Russian spy, who is in trouble because he stole classified documents from the United States government. But that’s factually wrong. It’s not true. Saying so isn’t a defense of Assange. We’re not here to promote him, or excuse any number of things he’s said over the years that we disagree with. But just so it’s clear: Whatever his sins, Assange did not steal documents from the US government. He did not hack the DNC’s servers, or break into John Podesta’s gmail account. There is no proof he is working for the Russian government, or ever has. Assange has never been charged with any of that, and wasn’t today, no matter what they tell you.
If you’re upset about the theft of classified documents from the US government, and there’s reason to be, we already know who did it: A 22-year-old Army Private named Bradley Manning, now called Chelsea. In 2013, Manning pleaded guilty to stealing secret material, and got 35 years in prison. A few years later, Barack Obama commuted Manning’s sentence. This allowed Manning to leave jail decades early, go back on TV as a commentator, and run for political office. So if your real concern is America’s national security, you ought to be angry at Barack Obama. And yet, strangely, nobody is.
Instead they’re furious at Julian Assange for printing the documents that other people stole. Quote: "Julian Assange has long been a wicked tool of Vladimir Putin and the Russian intelligence services,” wrote professional moralizer Ben Sasse, who also serves in the US senate. “He deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison.”
Wicked? The rest of his life in prison? Idi Amin ate people, and never faced this kind of scorn in Washington. Not even close. Nor, for the record, was Amin ever extradited. He died at 78 in his own bed, leaving behind 43 loving children. So what’s going on here? A couple of things. First, Julian Assange embarrassed virtually everyone in power. He published documents that undermined the official story on the Iraq War and Afghanistan. He got Debbie Wasserman Schultz fired from the DNC. He humiliated Hillary Clinton, by showing that the Democratic primaries were in fact rigged. Pretty much everyone in Washington has reason to hate Julian Assange. Rather than just admit that — “he made us look like buffoons, so now we’re sending him to prison” — they’re denouncing him as, you guessed it, a Russian agent. Watch Senator Blumenthal explain:
BLUMENTHAL: Justice should come to Julian Assange for his role in Russian meddling in our election and the sooner the better.
Again, no one has ever shown that Assange is a Russian agent. The indictment against him doesn’t say it. It doesn’t mention Russia at all. But that hasn’t stopped virtually every politician in Wasington from repeating Blumenthal’s line, including many Republicans. Robert Mueller nearly killed the Russian collusion hoax. Julian Assange is allowing them to keep it alive.
You’d think journalists would say something about this. Assange is, after all, one of them. What do you call a man who publishes news for a living? Assange is no sleazier than many journalists in Washington. He’s definitely not more anti-American. He’s broken stories the New York Times would have won Pulitzers for. Yet many of his colleagues have disowned him. “Oh please,” wrote Alexia Campbell of Vox. “Assange is no journalist. We know who he works for.” Meaning Russia. “Julian Assange is not a journalist,” explained Jelani Cobb of the New Yorker, without explaining. Ken Dilanian of NBC, who doesn’t so much cover the national security state as write memos on its behalf, noted that, quote: “Many believe that if [Assange] ever was a journalist, those days ended a long time ago.” At NBC, when they tell you “many believe” something, it means they believe it. Why all the hostility? We’ll let former Democratic staffer and current CNN employee Jim Sciutto explain. Assange’s real sin was preventing Hillary Clinton from becoming president:
JIM SCIUTTO: He is central to several cases. He's central to Russian interference in the election, U.S. intelligence views him as a middleman, a cutout, that he was in effect part of this interference. He's central, too, to questions about what the Trump administration, or Trump campaign, I should say, knew prior to the release of those materials, right? What were the communications between Roger Stone, et cetera… It's possible that this is something President Trump himself is not particularly excited about.
There was a time, not so long ago, when reporters didn’t applaud the arrest of other journalists for publishing information. In 1971, the Washington Post and The New York Times published a trove of stolen classified documents about the Vietnam War. It was called the Pentagon Papers. Liberals loved it. Books were written celebrating their bravery. As recently as 2011, the Wasington Post saw the connection. Quote,“A conviction [of Julian Assange] would also cause collateral damage to American media freedoms,” the Post wrote that year. Quote: “It is difficult to distinguish Assange or WikiLeaks from The Washington Post.”
That was before the Trump election and the total war that followed, a war in which the media have definitively chosen a side. Press freedom? “Sure. As long as we agree with your politics.” The first amendment? “That all depends. Who’d you vote for?” The guardians of speech are now its enemies. The people charged with policing power are now colluding with it. There’s a reason you see John Brennan on NBC all the time. They’re all on the same team. We’re not saying any of this to defend Julian Assange. We just want to be absolutely clear about who hurts this country more. It’s not him."
Yep, yep, yep, and yep
I'd put the source there, but factobum would lose his shit
This is particularly pertinent considering our current never-ending war...
"There was a time, not so long ago, when reporters didn’t applaud the arrest of other journalists for publishing information. In 1971, the Washington Post and The New York Times published a trove of stolen classified documents about the Vietnam War. It was called the Pentagon Papers. Liberals loved it. Books were written celebrating their bravery."
AndyM, 1555209746
The nature of the U.S. corporate media landscape -
30 years ago 90% of media was held by 50 different companies, but thanks to mergers and buyouts, it’s down to 6 major companies.
As an example, one of these six companies is General Electric, which owns NBC and Comcast amongst other media outlets.
General Electric also make billions in profit selling to the U.S. military - do we really think GE are going to look favourably on Assange?
In the words of Chomsky - "What do you expect to come out as the media product of a system of major corporations selling audiences to other corporations in close interaction with a major power system, state power, that they're all very much interlocked with? That’s basically common sense."
stunet, 1555210379
It'd make things easier if Assange was the journalist they claim him to be. If he continued to construct content such as 'Collateral Murder' then he'd be easy to get behind, to lend your support in full. But when he decontextualises (read: dumps) terrabytes of data irrespective of the damage it'll cause - and note I'm much more concerned with innocent Afghans and Iraqis than US spies - then all he's undertaking is a Libertarian vanity project on a grand scale.
Politically, I'm on his side, but I'm not so naive to think that governments shouldn't be able to keep secrets. That's just Mark Zuckerberg saying "there's no such thing as privacy" but applied to a different setting.
For all the prolix defence of Assange I'm yet to hear one person address the 'collateral murder' he caused by making public the names of Afghan and Iraqi informants. The people who were "on the side of good" but were given Assange's kiss of death.
factotum, 1555211913
A journalist's view:
http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-assange-arrest-is-a-warning-from-history?fbclid=IwAR1sOaBgHYooCTmAuNq4KhYlH9Juu2sNVqsGsGnzziG_mkJQIRVcZBAm5FE
AndyM, 1555211992
I'm under no illusions as to what he might be like as a person (apparent Assange quote - "'Well, they're informants so, if they get killed, they've got it coming to them. They deserve it.'"
Certainly Assange hasn't done himself or his cause any favours but for me, it's about the bigger picture.
Also, the latest developments display the fact that U.S., Britain and Ecuador have conspired to punish an individual for publishing evidence of war crimes.
AndyM, 1555212320
"David McCraw, lead lawyer of the New York Times, wrote: "I think the prosecution [of Assange] would be a very, very bad precedent for publishers... from everything I know, he's sort of in a classic publisher's position and the law would have a very hard time distinguishing between the New York Times and WilLeaks."
Also:
"In Australia, the current America-besotted government is prosecuting two whistle-blowers who revealed that Canberra's spooks bugged the cabinet meetings of the new government of East Timor for the express purpose of cheating the tiny, impoverished nation out of its proper share of the oil and gas resources in the Timor Sea. Their trial will be held in secret."
blindboy, 1555220954
He will probably be extradited to Sweden to face the rape charges as these were filed before the US charges and are part of the European justice system. This would also suit the UK as it would be less controversial than extradition to the US and might enable them to dodge responsibility if, later on, he is extradited there.
factotum, 1555221568
Another journalist's view:
https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2019-04-13/uk-media-mps-unveil-latest-assange-deception/?fbclid=IwAR0s_wkVlz_zs2x895CJqjUf2YR6CuEjh-3WG0pWM56u8DObOkZh1s6jjp0
indo-dreaming, 1555223098
"We're sorry, you are not allowed to proceed
Our server stopped processing your request. Your request looks suspicious or similar to automated requests from spam posting software.
If you believe you should be able to perform this request, please let us know."
Yep...just another dodgy link from factotum.
factotum, 1555224297
Huh??
Westofthelake, 1555224431
Facto's link worked for me.
The Swedish angle even smells a bit fishy.
"Even though questioning overseas in extradition cases is common – Sweden has done it dozens of times – Sweden repeatedly refused in Assange’s case, leading the Swedish appeal court to criticise the prosecutors. When he was finally questioned after four years of delays, Swedish prosecutors violated his rights by refusing access to his Swedish lawyer."
AndyM, 1555225096
Ever wonder why highly respected journos like Jonathan Cook don't work for the big players and instead go independent?
"'Interesting that the award-winning author of this article [https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-uk-spy-agencies-knew-source-false-iraq-war-intelligence-was-tortured], Ian Cobain, used to work at the Guardian. Why is that writers like this, who are so effective at digging up the dirt on western intelligence agencies, no longer seem to find a home at the Guardian?'"
Cook is also an award winner and found that the mainstream British press have little time for those who don't want to toe the corporate line.
"In other words, the Guardian doesn’t let its supposedly left-leaning, liberal identity distract it from supporting the corporate media consensus."
https://www.thecanary.co/global/world-analysis/2019/01/30/the-guardian-shows-its-true-colours-with-more-fearless-support-for-western-imperialism/
indo-dreaming, 1555235709
Pretty simple if a journalist is so far left leaning that they are not even wanted by the Guardian then they are absolute far left looneys.
No different to a right wing journalist that is too far right for say Sky news.
The good thing about mainstream media is left or right, they still have some quality control because they need to cater for the majority of the population who are not extreme in their views, generally speaking they are all bias to some degree (because they are human and have natural bias) and they might leave out facts they dont want to print etc and not paint the full picture, but they are not completely full of shit.
If they were going to hire/print extreme left or right views then the media outlet looses credibility with the majority of the population, because most can see they are full of shit.
An example of this is "The Daily Mail" that it's hard to believe what is true and what is not, I'm sure much of it is true, but it's obvious much is not, so it's hard to take seriously.
Im not going to give examples for the far left because you guys will just dispute it, but there is plenty of examples i could also give.
factotum, 1555242144
Hahahaha. Gold.
AndyM, 1555300064
Seems like you've totally missed the point Indo - it's nothing to do with left or right, it's about media businesses having a conflict of interest and so not reporting on facts that will affect them.
Do you know what I'm saying?
indo-dreaming, 1555306667
Sounds like a conspiracy theory.
AndyM, 1555308346
Plenty of info out there Indo.
"Most media organisations are owned by multi-national multi-billion dollar corporations that are involved in a number of businesses apart from the media, such as forestry, pulp and paper mills, defence, real estate, oil wells, agriculture, steel production, railways, water and power utilities"
Fact, not negotiable.
"The boards of these media companies typically include representatives of international banks, multinational oil companies, car manufacturers and other corporations. Take for example the board of the New York Times. It includes representatives of Merck, Morgan Guaranty Trust, Charter Oil, American Express, Bethlehem Steel, IBM, Scott paper, Sun Oil, First Boston Corporation, Ford Motor Company and Manville Corporation "
Fact - not negotiable.
Other reading -
https://www.ohio.edu/ethics/2001-conferences/corporate-interests-and-their-impact-on-news-coverage/
https://www.uow.edu.au/~/sharonb/mediachap.html
http://www.globalissues.org/article/162/some-examples#MonsantosInfluence
Or you can have a go at Noam Chomsky: Necessary Illusions: Thought Control in Democratic Societies (London: Pluto Press).
Or you can start with Wikipedia.
Or a dictionary.
stunet, 1555308462
You don't have to search too far. Look up Michael West and Fairfax. Bloke got shown the door because his work and SMH's vision "no longer aligned". He was working on corporate tax avoidance when he got the DCM, and it was also his work (and a few others) on banking malfeasance that led to the Hayne Royal Commission.
Take a look at who advertises in Fairfax to understand what triggered that redundancy.
Zero to do with left/right politics.
Now he's fortunately working independently - michaelwest.com.au - and also appointed Adjunct Associate Professor at the University of Sydney's School of Social and Political Sciences to continue investigative work.
H2O, 1555311381
I loved Michael West's work at SMH then.......?? ........disappeared . Some good exposes of Board malfeasance and skulduggery. Good to know where he is now. Joe Aston AFR has a crack too. Gerry Harvey wanted to kill him recently as I am sure do the board of Blue Sky Investments.
factotum, 1555313576
Michael West's website is always worth a perusal. Got some interesting contributors as well.
https://www.michaelwest.com.au/australias-growing-debt-explodes-the-myth-that-libs-are-better-economic-managers/
Cripple52, 1555323400
In complete agreement factotum , Michael West is an investigative journalist that deserves more accolades . His website is worth subscribing to ; I recall he sold his investment unit in Bondi after his redundancy from Fairfax to set up his new venture into journalism . Great to hear he has scored a job as an Assoc Professor as he is the sort of person journalism needs at this point in time .
stunet, 1555383900
@Andy, Sypkan et al
If Assange-style transparency is good for democracy, then where does democracy stand against plutocracy (such as Russia) and Communism (such as China)? Note that neither Russia or China are having state secrets end up in Wikileaks' inbox.
Are their political systems strengthened at the expense of ours?
Blowin, 1555385682
There entire system of governance is stronger than ours. But the benefits don’t outweigh the negatives of their system.
AndyM, 1555395349
Stu I'd say that level of transparency is not only good for democracy, it's also good for not getting your country invaded and your family shot.
You've raised complex questions though which just makes me want to ask more questions such as, is China communist?
Is the Unites States a true version of democracy or is it in fact a plutocracy or an oligarchy.
I agree with Blowin, Russia and China do have "stronger" political systems if you define the lack of discussion and the ease of forcing your country in a particular direction as being strong. Having said that, the U.S. has arguably been easily forced in a certain direction as a result of the subversion of its democracy.
I guess that's the thing about democracy, in theory and I think also in practice, democracy is about listening and compromising and that takes time, especially with large populations.
I've yet to hear a desirable alternative to striving for a liberal democracy.
AndyM, 1555396834
I actually think that if we accept that if a stronger global projection of power reinforces a political system, then their political system may be strengthened if U.S. hegemony diminishes due to an increase in "democracy" in the U.S. demanding greater morals and ethics.
I focus, 1555397385
@Stu
"Are their political systems strengthened at the expense of ours?"
No they are not, the strength of democracy / open society is occasionally we get a chance to decide what we stand for or against and this can come from occasional insights to the fu(kups we don't condone.
Russia / China style dictatorial governance reliant on continuations propergander that rots from the centre never has total moral acceptance IMHO.
Blowin, 1555398685
The subversion of the concept of nationhood is weakening all Western nations.
Diversity isn’t strength, diversity is division.
A lot of hope for the checking of China’s massive global influence rests on societal divisions forming due to the imbalance of CCP largesse.
AndyM, 1555399386
But does “the checking of China’s massive global influence” necessarily have to come at the expense of western ideals of a transparent democracy?
Blowin, 1555399777
Not related.
Corruption is the single biggest blight on democracy. Transparency is the best way to root out corruption.
AndyM, 1555400169
The US wouldn’t have control over a fraction of the territory that they do if they were transparent about their intentions
ie that it’s for the benefit of corporations.
I focus, 1555413898
Andy the US has control due to its economic might and then backed up by its military–industrial complex.
Unless you take a isolationist position (risky) you fall under the control of the greater economy's.
Note Russia at the moment doesn't have the economy to back its military posture hence you don't hear to much about a Russian threat China on the other hand.........
One thing missing from outside of the western world has been the ability to innervate military weapons systems to a superior level.
Japan had a crack during WWII but lacked resources China may change that.
Blowin, 1555413916
The US has never been as powerful as immediately post WW2 . Before the military/industrial complex went full retard.
It was the corruption and corporate profit seeking at all costs - the neoliberalism - which commenced the decay of US society and enabled Chinese growth at US expense.
AndyM, 1555418718
Blowin the US had been doing false flag actions and operations based on lies and misinformation for a long, long time before WW2.
I’m positing that if the US was transparent about its intentions, the populace wouldn’t cop it, the US wouldn’t have a fraction of the influence it does and, assuming that global influence strengthens a political system, the political system of China would be strengthened at the expense of ours.
I focus, I understand why the US has become so powerful, I’m just saying that Stu may well have a point with the question he posed.
Ralph, 1555462290
@Michael West.
I had a quick squiz at his website. He seems to be heavily biased against the LNP. He probably got the boot because he was perceived as being too close to Labor/Greens/ABC. Also Channel 9 owns fairfax and Peter Costello is chairman of 9. That could be a factor.
stunet, 1555464353
West worked first as a stockbroker, then eight years as a journalist for NewsCorp before joining Fairfax, and now he's independent. Hard to pin down his bias as he's flown all the flags.
Not hard to be critical of the LNP in their current iteration. They've been an abomination since Abbott first took the reins of opposition leader.
AndyM, 1555464505
How do you figure that Michael West is biased?
Looks like he's happy to point the finger at Labor too ("Australian politicians and bureaucrats with links to fossil fuel & resource extraction industries"), and he even questions whether the whole Al Jazeera "expose" into One Nation was entrapment for the sake of clickbait journalism (the answer is maybe, but the idiots deserved it).
Also, if a political party like the LNP is so reprehensible that there's a mountain of evidence against it, does that mean that constant reporting of the facts amounts to bias?
I focus, 1555472280
Good summery on Assange
https://www.facebook.com/filmsforaction/videos/257809488347656
sypkan, 1555503382
"...and he even questions whether the whole Al Jazeera "expose" into One Nation was entrapment for the sake of clickbait journalism (the answer is maybe, but the idiots deserved it)."
That's because it was entrapment...of the highest order!
I was pretty happy to see the crew on 'insiders' make the exact same point as well, after I'd questioned it on here. No offence stunet, but your defence was bullshit. Not you personally, just the bulkshit story they'd made up to justify the means to take the heat off.
stunet, 1555535859
My "defence"?.
Of what?
sypkan, 1555553657
Your defence of the 'journalists' going out of their way to catch one nation out. 'Journalists' from a state run media organisation, to make things even worse, pretty grubby desperate stuff.
As I said, you were only reiterating the bullshit lines from above ie. that one nation getting caught out was only a minor by product of a larger investigation into the NRA. I don't believe that for a minute. They went after them like a rabid dog!
Total set up, totally! a dangerous precedent for 'journalism' going forward, as some on the 'insiders' panel suggested.
stunet, 1555554815
Ha ha ha...and what a defence you have!
Is not 'Insiders' also run by a "state run organisation"?
None of AJ's investigative unit are Qatari, none are even Australian. Rodger Muller was roped in, and ON subsequently targeted, because they spoke to the NRA and gave them a chance to articulate their responses to massacres on film. "Offense, offense, offense."
Not sure why that's hard for you to believe.
sypkan, 1555557226
Don't get too excited, it wasn't an attack on you, just the dodgy defence line coming from above.
Yes abc is state run, but they're not setting people up with entrapment in their investigations, They're reporting what happened - as journalists are supposed to do - not manufacturing stories decieving people, which is what aljazeera did.
As I said originally, a three year investigation involving one nation, no doubt costing 100s of thousands of dollars, it's all a bit much to believe it suddenly sprung from a bigger story about the NRA. I'm not buying it at all.
If the bigger story and investigation comes out I'll change my mind. Until I see a significant story about the NRA from those jounalists....I call bullshit!!!
stunet, 1555557771
"Don't get too excited..."
Says the guy dropping triple exclamation marks.
sypkan, 1555558576
For emphasis, not excitement
It's some big bullshit they're peddling
GuySmiley, 1555562381
So what's your take on the One Nation / NRA thingie?
Entrapment? stuff up? fucktards doing what fucktards do?
My money is on option 3 by the way but would love to hear your views on what was said by the honourable ON operatives.
sypkan, 1555582376
Well, most proponents of free speech say something like. '...let people (dickheads) say whatever they want, eventuality they'll hang themselves', as one nation did...
A basic principle you clearly don't seem to believe in.
Having said that, this 'thingie' was clearly entrapment, and I still think it's super dodgy that aljazeera went after one nation so rabidly. Blowing so much cash and time to catch them out. As West apparently said, ...maybe the end justified the means, that'll depend on one's perspective...
I just can't stand the misinformation being peddled...constantly....if you set them up - own it - don't make up some bullshit story. But they had to make up some bullshit story, because they know what they did is dodgy, super dodgy for a journalist to do.
I know you guys get all uppity and irritated about talking about this shit, but I believe my intentions are good. The left are so delusional about the merits and their ability of controlling the narrative they're self sabotaging. It's a brand new, brave new world out there, and they're about ten years behind in terms of adjusting to it...
Combined with their penchants for political correctness, no platforming, and a heap of other means they're addicted to, even their supporters cannot talk them seriously anymore, and it just seems to be getting worse as they struggle to adjust.
GuySmiley, 1555583759
Ha, so entrapments gets them off the hook?
etarip, 1555584410
Soooo, entrapment or no entrapment, did those ON fucktards seek foreign donations from the NRA, in a proposed exchange for support to weaken Australian law or not?
No one put the words in their mouth. They’re just pissed they were outed as muppets, and they clearly failed to do any background research on their proposed partners.
I for one am happy for some transparency on what politicians / staffers are happy to put on the table in exchange for favours and cash. There should be a public register and a record of conversation.
Ps: James Ashby is a lightweight journeyman goon - the sooner that shitstain is gone from any form of political influence the better.
sypkan, 1555585001
I agree etarip, but that transparency has to work both ways.
No it doesn't get them off the hook. I've said nothing to defend one nation. I've only talked about the dodgyness of aljazeera. And that dodgyness stands until I see a two part special (at least) on the NRA.
Waiting patiently...
etarip, 1555585560
Ref transparency: Does AJ get money from Australian taxpayer? ON does. That’s the difference.
I’d like to see the NRA special too. Probably pretty bland and generally unsurprising tho. The golden nugget was likely ‘our’ muppets, but that ain’t going to interest many people outside Australia so they ran with it.
freeride76, 1555623078
Public interest trumps entrapment.
factotum, 1555624411
"Let people (dickheads) say whatever they want, eventuality they'll hang themselves."
Hahahaha.
stunet, 1555628377
Making legal analogies about entrapment is a waste of time and a distraction from the issue - which is exactly why One Nation is prosecuting the argument. Anyway, to overlay the legal interpretation of entrapment on the story would require knowledge that wasn't gleaned from the TV show so for people to rush in with that accusation is hasty. What do they know that others don't? Sypkan seems to think he knows more.
Did you get uppity at Donal Macintyre or Matt Taibbi, each who've been commended for their undercover work?
Why the righteousness now? And why do you think Rodger Muller's story is bullshit? ("own it...blah blah blah")
Also, I'd say any journalist that points the finger is simply jealous of AJ's gumption and more so their financial backing - investigative journalism is dying in Aust and the US.
Blowin, 1555631671
Sure is funny reading the articles about Meuller’s report. You’d think that the investigation had been into obstruction instead of the conveniently forgotten Russian collusion.
Sorry seems to be the hardest word.
thermalben, 1555643027
Stephen Fry said it best on Twitter this morning.
”The #MuellerReport perfectly crystallises our age. Those who dislike Trump are leafing through looking for only that which incriminates, those who like him search only for what exculpates and exonerates. Each frantically ignoring what they don’t want to see. I’m guilty too”
sypkan, 1555645511
facts o' bum - as predictable as poo. I knew as I was writimg that that you'd come back with it. But I threw it in anyway, because those two one nation morons sure did hang themselves - as one nation generally tends to do...
I'm not making analogies, and I don't think I know more than anyone else. I was just pointing out that West had made the same point I did months ago when the story first aired - as did insiders the episode directly following the story.
Not having an 'I told you so' moment either, just plessed that some journalists were asking the same question I did after watching it.
Those two guys are a fucking disgrace, they totally showed their true colours. But what stood out to me as I watched it was the dates, I couldn't believe the investigation had gone on so long.
As I said then, it raises questioms why a network like aljazeera would bother spending so much time and money following two aussie hillbilly's doing a road trip across america.
And the 'why' is obvious, with aljazeera being aljazeera and one nation being one nation, but I still think it's a little concerning that a state sponsored network would go to such lengths to smear a two bit aussie political party.
sypkan, 1555649038
"Sure is funny reading the articles about Meuller’s report. You’d think that the investigation had been into obstruction instead of the conveniently forgotten Russian collusion.
Sorry seems to be the hardest word."
Also as predictable as poo. I think it was the federalist that ran an article well before the report came out saying, watch as the mueller report finds no collusion, that the media will seamlessly turn their focus from collusion onto obstruction. And here we are...
The question is, can you obstruct justice on a crime that someone didn't commit? And the answer for the establishment minions is a resounding Yes!
The whole media apoaratus is broken, a crumbling cesspit of mess beyond repair. And that is my main point on all of these threads. Not to make partisan points as some believe.
There is no objectivity left, anywhere at all. Not even feeble attempts to present faux journalism. it appears all journalists are totally incapable. It was probably always the case, but like many things, the internet has corrupted it beyond repair...
Journalists think they're so fucking smart, well above the average, but their pathetic presentation of 'facts' shows they're either just as dumb as the deplorables, or they're shameless partisan hacks.
A bit from column A and a bit from column B me thinks...
Hubris and contempt, a lethal combination.
AndyM, 1555655116
"The whole media apoaratus is broken"
I assume you are talking about the mainstream media. Of course there are shades of grey but generally speaking I agree, although the ABC is capable of some excellent and crucial investigative journalism.
"There is no objectivity left, anywhere at all...the internet has corrupted it beyond repair"
Disagree. There's been links to quite a few examples of first rate objective journalism on this site recently and if it wasn't for the internet, these sites would have little hope of finding an audience. The key is to support them and spread the word.
Also, dare I say it, you have to be prepared to read and consider, instead of just looking to be entertained.
https://www.michaelwest.com.au
http://www.medialens.org
https://www.truthdig.com
https://newmatilda.com
https://www.thecanary.co
etarip, 1555658732
So, syppo and blowie, you’re saying that obstruction of an investigation into collusion (which you say you have nothing to answer for) is NOT an issue?
This is the point. The President has overstepped his authority in attempting to shut down a lawful investigation.
Trump played his cards pretty badly. If he had nothing to fear, why did he react so badly? This is an entirely self-inflicted wound.
Hubris and Contempt perchance?
AndyM, 1555659525
ABC bias - what, in favor of the US hegemon? ;)
I thought that, time and time again, the ABC have been shown to be very neutral, very center.
Are you talking about Steve Bannon? Yeah there’re a lot of Blindboys out there who are all knee jerk emotional reactions and I suppose the ABC is going to be their natural home.
I agree when you say that taking away platforms is bullshit, whether it’s Bannon or Peterson or whoever.
Take Pauline Hanson (I mean please, somebody take her) - IMO it’s better to pick the arguments apart and hang them out to dry - it lasts longer and sinks in more instead of just doing the old stick the fingers in the ears.
Ralph, 1555660101
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/abc-news-australia/
indo-dreaming, 1555661363
Ive discovered the best way to get your media ABC/SBS & Sky News/Australian
Get bias left view, get bias right view and then decide.
It's often not what they say that makes them all bias, it's also what they don't say.
blindboy, 1555662181
Now Mueller's report has dropped,
We can see what Trump has copped.
So he's not guilty of collusion,
But there's perversion in profusion.
So let me now reiterate,
Mueller did not exonerate.
The issues around who he hired,
Are only matched by those he fired.
This document tells the sad tale,
Of how his best friends went to jail.
All in all quite an epic fail.
The Democrats have had great luck,
Donald's been such a foolish fuck.
He has left a trail a mile wide,
And he has nowhere left to hide.
The House will probably not impeach,
For now he is beyond their reach,
But soon enough it will be time,
For him to answer for his crime.
Blowin, 1555665349
Not guilty of collusion.
blindboy, 1555666230
“In sum, the investigation established multiple links between Trump Campaign officials and individuals tied to the Russian government. Those links included Russian offers of assistance to the Campaign. In some instances, the Campaign was receptive to the offer, while in other instances the Campaign officials shied away. ”
"“The] President slumped back in his chair and said, “Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I’m fucked.” The President became angry and lambasted the Attorney General for his decision to recuse from the investigation, stating, “How could you let this happen, Jeff?” "
The Mueller Report
I focus, 1555667025
Blowin read the report its not pretty in any aspect
Blowin, 1555667038
AKA....Not guilty of collusion.
Blowin, 1555667225
You read a 440 page report into the Trump/ Russia dribble ?
Wow. I’m amazed. Not impressed, just amazed.
Anyway .......Trump didn’t collude. Three words summarising 440 mind numbingly boring pages.
etarip, 1555668073
You’re quite a funny troll at times Blowin.
That report is not an exoneration of Trump.
And it was never going to find him “guilty” of anything - it might have issued indictments for a separate trial or recommended further investigation.
I guess you’re stirring up your old mate Blindy but it’s wilful ignorance to pretend that there is no scope for criticism of Trump and his crew out of Mueller’s report.
Blowin, 1555668715
Yeah , im stirring him up.
But there’s nothing on Trump. If there was a shred of anything there is half a billion jackels out there baying for his blood whose dream it is to see him gone in a haze of disgrace. They’ve barked up the wrong tree.
I’m sure he’s guilty of something, but it isn’t being Russia’s pet.
And the whole obstruction thing .......pffffttttt. Who gives a fuck . I reckon he showed more restraint than I would’ve.
The fact that some of his cronies were guilty of other extraneous bullshit is to be expected. You’d get the same result going through the backgrounds of 90 percent of Canberra.
I focus, 1555668973
AAAAh the report didn't clear him of obstruction.........read the report
Note chargers were not laid as he is a sitting president..........read the report
sypkan, 1555669661
Sorry yes, steve bannon
Hubris and Contempt perchance?
Awww yeh! And again, a lethal combination
sypkan, 1555694982
NYT, still can't say sorry, but conceding an inch...well a millimetre...maybe...
"For nearly four years, members of America’s ruling class, especially those in the media, the academy and government, have operated on one central, unquestioned assumption: orange man bad. This stifling orthodoxy led to a blind, counterfactual faith in the theory that Mr. Trump had somehow colluded with “the Russians” (never well defined) to win the election. Again, the specific charges were always amorphous — plastic enough to change as needed. That’s hardly surprising: That’s the way conspiracy theories always work. The Russian collusion hoax was in fact nothing more than a massively multiplayer coping mechanism for people who couldn’t accept the results of the 2016 election.
But why is it not enough to simply acknowledge that you dislike Mr. Trump and disagree with his policies? What psychological purpose does adding the fiction of a conspiracy serve?
The French philosopher and literary critic René Girard held that such scapegoating and ritual sacrifice is an essential part of group identity and solidarity. That seems to apply here. Mr. Trump ran against American elites and their insular culture. Their response was to load onto him all of the sins they see in American society and attempt to sacrifice him to appease their gods.
Mr. Girard asked a question that is pertinent today: “Why is our own participation in scapegoating so difficult to perceive and the participation of others so easy? To us, our fears and prejudices never appear as such because they determine our vision of people we despise, we fear, and against whom we discriminate.”
But the ritual sacrifice of Donald Trump didn’t work — at least not in the sense of removing him from office. It certainly did have the effect of catalyzing and uniting his opponents. Still, one of the many ironies here is that the Trump-hating media has handed him an incredibly powerful weapon for the 2020 campaign, one that may ensure his re-election.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/18/opinion/barr-media-trump.html
sypkan, 1555695198
Yes andym I may have overplayed that a little bit...but it's the internet...that's how you're supposed to play it (smiley face)
It's a double edge sword, while the internet has corrupted mainstream media beyond belief - both sides! - it has spawned some excellent sites, and I'm thankful that the crew on swellnet often point you into some stuff you would never find otherwise. And that's half the problem, the over supply of information, which means your average joe has little chance of finding the real quality, and hence society is currently in a battle of the trash merchants. I do have hope we will come out the other side of this better off, but all this current talk of banning 'hate speech' and the grossly bias censorship at the likes of facebook and twitter is pissing all over my little spark of hope.
The perception of what's mainstream media (MSM) thing kind of cracks me up, with 90% of regular guadianistas constantly bagging 'MSM', it'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic...and the commenters so delusional!
Whilst I like 'new matlida', a lot actually, one could argue they are quite left wing biased too, but they do endeavour to mix it up a bit, which is great. Some of the others are fairly new to me so I won't comment.
The abc does do some excellent journalism, even with their blatant bias. It was most interesting watching the lead up and follow on from the sarah ferguson interview with steve bannon, many abc faithfuls were most critical of her before even giving him an interview. I don't know how anyone could possibly take this position considerimg his position and influence in the current political situation. I saw it as a jounalistic coup for a little aussie journalist. The old 'no platformers' certainly are a very loud squeaky wheel, and they went even more bunta after it aired because he didn't come across ogre-ish enough for their liking. What they think they achieve by this carry on puzzles me to no end.
sypkan, 1555699554
"THE TWO-PRONGED CONSPIRACY THEORY that has dominated U.S. political discourse for almost three years – that (1) Trump, his family and his campaign conspired or coordinated with Russia to interfere in the 2016 election, and (2) Trump is beholden to Russian President Vladimir Putin —was not merely rejected today by the final report of Special Counsel Robert Mueller. It was obliterated: in an undeniable and definitive manner.
The key fact is this: Mueller – contrary to weeks of false media claims – did not merely issue a narrow, cramped, legalistic finding that there was insufficient evidence to indict Trump associates for conspiring with Russia and then proving their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. That would have been devastating enough to those who spent the last two years or more misleading people to believe that conspiracy convictions of Trump’s closest aides and family members were inevitable. But his mandate was much broader than that: to state what did or did not happen.
That’s precisely what he did: Mueller, in addition to concluding that evidence was insufficient to charge any American with crimes relating to Russian election interference, also stated emphatically in numerous instances that there was no evidence – not merely that there was insufficient evidence to obtain a criminal conviction – that key prongs of this three-year-old conspiracy theory actually happened. As Mueller himself put it: “in some instances, the report points out the absence of evidence or conflicts in the evidence about a particular fact or event.”"
Simply no evidence, or in fact conflictting evidence!
As to the last glimmering hope of obstruction?
"...As Mueller himself concluded, a reasonable debate can be conducted on whether Trump tried to obstruct his investigation with corrupt intent. But even on the case of obstruction, the central point looms large over all of it: there was no underlying crime established for Trump to cover-up.
All criminal investigations require a determination of a person’s intent, what they are thinking and what their goal is. When the question is whether a President sought to kill an Executive Branch investigation – as Trump clearly wanted to do here – the determinative issue is whether he did so because he genuinely believed the investigation to be an unfair persecution and scam, or whether he did it to corruptly conceal evidence of criminality.
That Mueller could not and did not establish any underlying crimes strongly suggests that Trump acted with the former rather than the latter motive, making it virtually impossible to find that he criminally obstructed the investigation."
Contempt is a two way street, and ocassionally justified...
"...But certain facts will never go away no matter how much denial they embrace. The sweeping Mueller investigation ended with zero indictments of zero Americans for conspiring with Russia over the 2016 election. Both Donald Trump, Jr. and Jared Kushner – the key participants in the Trump Tower meeting – testified for hours and hours yet were never charged for perjury, lying or obstruction, even though Mueller proved how easily he would indict anyone who lied as part of the investigation. And this massive investigation simply did not establish any of the conspiracy theories that huge parts of the Democratic Party, the intelligence community and the U.S. media spent years encouraging the public to believe.
Those responsible for this can refuse to acknowledge wrongdoing. They can even claim vindication if they want and will likely be cheered for doing so.
But the contempt in which the media and political class is held by so much of the U.S. population – undoubtedly a leading factor that led to Trump’s election in the first place – will only continue to grow as a result, and deservedly so. People know they were scammed, that their politics was drowned for years by a hoax. And none of that will go away no matter how insulated media and political elites in Washington, northern Virginia, Brooklyn, and large West Coast cities keep themselves, and thus hear only in-group affirmation while blocking out all of that well-earned scorn."
https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/robert-mueller-did-not-merely-reject-the-trumprussia-conspiracy-theories-he-obliterated-them/
sharkman, 1555710969
ah the interpretation of it all...."The report makes several things clear: that the Russian government tried to help Trump win, that the Trump campaign was eager to benefit from hackings targeting Democrats, that Trump’s campaign advisers had a host of ties to Russia, and that President Trump tried again and again to try to impede the Russia investigation."
https://www.vox.com/2019/4/18/18485602/mueller-report-findings-obstruction-russia-collusion
blindboy, 1555713021
Just to clarify. As the Mueller Report makes clear, there were numerous contacts between the Trump campaign and various figures in the Russian government. The campaign was also directly assisted by the actions of a Russian government organisation, the Internet Research Agency. Collusion occurred, unfortunately Mueller failed to find sufficient evidence of criminality to bring charges. Not guilty however, does not mean innocent and Trump is very far from being in the clear on this issue. The evidence for obstruction of justice is strong enough to charge and probably convict him if he was not President. His future is still very uncertain. The Democrats are unlikely to impeach him as they do not have the numbers in the Senate but, should he lose the 2020 election, he could easily face charges of obstruction of justice, based on Mueller's evidence. Charges of collusion could also still be brought if further evidence becomes available. Additionally, he is also the subject of a number of other investigations involving serious charges. All this explains why he has become nothing more than a front man for traditional Republican policies and why his aides consistently ignore his orders. He has no real power now. His only interest is self-interest and that dictates he cosy up tight with the Republican hierarchy so they continue to protect him at the end of his Presidency. Anyone with a reasonable knowledge of US political history can see the usual themes playing out. Weak leaders are easily bent to support the interests of wealth and property which, since the Declaration of Independence, have always taken precedence over human rights.
Blowin, 1555718350
Blindboy says -“ Collusion occurred, unfortunately Mueller failed to find sufficient evidence of criminality to bring charges.”
Which brings us to - “A delusion is firm and fixed belief based on inadequate grounds not amenable to rational argument or evidence to contrary,”
Alternatively- https://youtu.be/vn_PSJsl0LQ
George “ Blindboy “ Constanza
sypkan, 1555719945
So I won't be getting my $100 bucks anytime soon then?
Sheeeesh I thought I'd been more than patient, or blindboy had forgotten, or something....
It looks like it's something....
GuySmiley, 1555722818
Trump is Trump and frankly America deserves him. If people think Trump is the answer they are clearly asking the wrong question. What I hate about Trump and all American presidents for that matter is Australia is stuck in an alliance with the US. All I want is the country of my birth to have an independent foreign policy. Why should we get suckered into every conflict the US wants to inflict on the world? That’s where tiny New Zealand, the country we like to make fun of, plays well above its weight, it has an independent foreign policy free of American trickery. God bless the Kiwis.
sypkan, 1555727775
Trump is the answer to the corruption of process bernie talks of.
Until you guys are willing to address that we'll get nowhere, and trump will get another 4 years...
I found this article particulary relevant, especially after stunet's little spiel to indod about becoming conservative as one ages. A spiel that I agree with, and check myself against constantly
"...And what has happened to that flower power, don’t trust the government consensus of the Peter Max tie-dyed days?
Some of it is still singing Simon and Garfunkel’s “America” at Bernie’s rallies, but some has matured in unexpected ways. If you really care about individual rights and liberties, and if you have no hatred or distrust for anyone else, then you just want the government to stay as small and far away from you as possible. You are, for want of a better word, a conservative.
Attorney General Barr — in his tortoise shell glasses, preppy suit and close-cropped hair — was, in truth, letting his Freak Flag Fly. He was protecting the individual against the State. Meanwhile, those who feign shock that anyone could care about government interference in elections appear to be perversely channeling the ghost of J. Edgar himself, just as two-and-a-half years of unfounded Russian collusion theories channeled the ghost of Wisconsin Joe McCarthy.
The Vietnam War generation — the Woodstock generation — is not the generation of 29 SWAT team members, with guns pointing, plus assault vehicles, plus amphibious vehicles, plus a CNN camera crew mysteriously on site, as they arrest a non-violent, old, unarmed man in his Florida retirement home. The Vietnam War generation — the Woodstock generation — is not the generation of gag orders, or solitary confinement before guilt is found, or of threats to family members to extract guilty pleas. The Vietnam War generation — the Woodstock generation — is not the generation of one political party secretly paying British spooks to plumb Russian sources for scandal dirt, or of FISA orders based on such dirt, or of anonymously sourced claims of “treason” being blasted again and again against apparently innocent people, hour after hour, for months on end.
The Vietnam War generation — the Woodstock generation — having seen J. Edgar Hoover and an out of control CIA, would have concerns over a J. Edgar Comey, a J. Edgar McCabe, a J. Edgar Brennan, a J. Edgar Strozk, if they carelessly or with bias began improper surveillance on election campaign teams of ANY party or cause.
Why does Attorney General Barr feel the need to determine if the government undertook improper political surveillance? Why indeed."
And, what has happened to them indeed?
They've become the dogs that they once abhored that's what...
Protecting the corrupt establishment, and willing to do 'whatever it takes' to maintain power.
Funny, I thought 'whatever it takes' was the catchcry of the conservative...
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/news-opinion/in-this-corner-bill-barrs-key-statement-was-overlooked
blindboy, 1555729522
Those who cannot think, cut and paste!
GuySmiley, 1555729755
My eyes glaze over every time I read posts like that, not sure where you people get your inspiration from but all change, including political, is incremental. The swamp that needs draining is 40 years of neo-liberalism, do you honestly expect a messiah to appear on the horizon to fix all this corruption? If you do you’re going to be waiting longer than Jebus’ reawakening. Capitalism as practiced in the west has failed not because it’s fundamentally a bad idea but because of greed turbocharged by deregulation and tax avoidance. Exactly the sort it tripe Morrison is still trying to sell to us at this election. The reality of that swamp Trump promised to drain is that 1% of Americans own 90% of its wealth, thinking about that how is Donald the answer when he is a big part of the problem? It would be laughable if it weren’t so tragic.
Ralph, 1555734136
Capitalism has failed?
indo-dreaming, 1555735325
Over 2 years on, 50 pages in.
Trump still president, USA economy doing better than ever.
Haters still hating, saying the same things.
Wonder were we will be at page 100?
Got to say, i didnt think we would be where we are, thought it would have been a train wreck by now.
When do we all admit we were wrong?
blindboy, 1555738038
Three Time Losers
One of the more interesting aspects of the release of the Mueller Report is the way it has clarified the right wing strategy around Trump. Trump is an incompetent fool, but he is THEIR incompetent fool and, since the first days of his Presidency, they have worked to increase their control over him. This includes both the power brokers of the Republican Party and their allies in traditional and social media. They saw early that he was a threat to stable governance and so to their power and wealth. But they also saw the opportunity to control him and covertly further their agenda of concentrating wealth and under-mining human rights by attacking health care, education and social welfare.
The strategy they chose was the tried and true one used to dispute both the evidence that smoking causes cancer and that climate change was being caused by our greenhouse gas emissions. The first ingredient in this strategy is distraction. For smoking, advertising filled this role. By creating glamorous images they distracted people from the toxic effects of the product. In the case of climate change it was the economy. They created the impression that switching to renewables would damage the economy when the opposite was true. In the case of Trump, and the Republicans generally, it is the creation of the "elite" as a target of hate; all those educated wealthy people looking down their noses with disdain at us poor working class drones! This process was well under way before Trump. In fact his election represents a miscalculation of the power of the illusion they created. It was not supposed to put a populist in the White House, only to keep a disadvantaged section of the population voting against their own best interests.
The second element of the strategy is to create the impression that both sides of an argument have equal weight. In the case of both smoking and climate change they created the impression that, long after the scientific evidence was conclusive, there was still substantial doubt. By setting up phoney scientific "Institutes", funding anyone with a science degree who was prepared to lie for them and pushing their message through their usual media allies, they succeeded in delaying effective responses. This was easy in the case of smoking but much harder and more expensive in the case of climate change.
It needs to be said here that these shameful deceptions have had catastrophic consequences in the real world. My father, like so many of his generation, died prematurely from smoking related disease. It is impossible to calculate how many lives might have been saved without their lies but globally it would run to the millions and is still increasing as they use their influence to block reforms to reduce smoking in developing nations.
The consequences of their behaviour over climate change will play out over hundreds of years, if not millennia. It is impossible to guess how many lives will be lost, how many people impoverished, how many ecosystems utterly destroyed or exactly how much biodiversity we will lose, but even if we respond effectively now, which is still very far from certain, the natural world our grand-children and great grand-children will live in will be radically different to the one we have grown up in.
In Trump's case, the obvious fact that he is a bumbling, lazy incompetent has had to compete with the image generated by right wing media. They talked up the economy, knowing that the credit was actually Obama's, while ignoring the poverty, drug addiction and slave labour level of the minimum wage. They promoted Trump's deal with North Korea as a breakthrough when he had given Kim a huge boost and received less than nothing in return. They lauded his courage in battling illegal migration when all he had done was to create chaos and misery along the border with Mexico. They talked up the wall, knowing it would never be built. On the balance of evidence, there is no argument. Trump has been an appalling President. He has permanently damaged the institutions of good governance and consistently appealed to the worst in human nature. The difference between the manufactured illusion of competency and the fact of pathetic failure could not be clearer. To fall for such obvious trickery once is careless. To fall for it twice is shameful. For so many to fall for it three times suggests a monumental cultural failure.
sypkan, 1555739317
you guys crack me up!
If someone writes from the heart its 'unfounded opinion'. Someone quotes someome else its 'those that can't think cut and paste'. Or 'that"s a conservative website' blah blah fucking blah...
Thr dude's a bernie bros, and he wrote exactly what I've been thinking for myself for the last 3 years. There's even posts on here from me saying exactly the same in fewer words.
Fuckimg hilarious! The bernie bros must have cut way too close to the bone because you guys have got nothing...again...
Youse are the neo liberal stooges maintaining the status quo!
Ocassionally dropping the term to distance yourselves from the mess.
Yes politics is incremental, until something revolutionary happens, and you little piss weak faux left revolutionaries are all dark and pissed off because you missed your once in a lifetime revolution, because it went ahead without your endorsement.
Pathetic!
blindboy, 1555742234
At least the cut and paste made sense.
sypkan, 1555744571
Whatever...loser...
Aren't you sick of losing yet? Because I sure am sick of that other loser winning
Where's my $100 bucks?
Blowin, 1555744866
Give me cut and paste over masturbatory 3rd grade level poetry any day.
PS Blindboy if you made a bet then pay the man. No excuses.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=welcher
blindboy, 1555750310
Ha ha that was first rate doggerel! What bet Blowhard?
sypkan, 1555755676
What bet? Seriously? You're pulling that old chestnut?
And I thought you were an honourable man...
A somewhat myopic, non compromising, little bit bitter twisted man, but nonetheless honourable...
blindboy, 1555755797
Remind me, I'm a busy man. If I made the bet and have lost it fairly I will forward the money to Ben or Stu and they can pass it on.
sypkan, 1555757458
The bet was you, me. Trump will go down for collusion or not. Winner gets $100 to the charity of their choice.
You can put $100 in the catholic church collection tin for me
sypkan, 1555757734
I'm not that mean, the red shield appeal will do, or some homeless charity the catholic church runs.
Or don't do it, I don't care, but I was happy to pay to your dodgy charity. In fact I expected to.
Whether trump colluded or not I expected him to go down, such is the nature of our current politics...
blindboy, 1555758060
St. Vincent de Paul OK? I will pay up on the condition that you donate the same amount to GetUp if he does go down, which is still very much a possibility. Mueller did not exonerate him on collusion. He only stated he did not find any evidence of it. Given that he uncovered encrypted and deleted traffic between people in his campaign and various Putin cronies and that numerous witnesses took their 5th amendment right to silence, it ain't over yet.
sypkan, 1555758492
Really Get Up?
FFS that's not a charity! - that's a labor money pit
sypkan, 1555758860
I was going to say trump's 2020 campaign, but that's just too cruel - and not a charity! Just like Get Up isn't. And now you pull out Get Up on me!
Show some fucking charitability with your charity
It's good to be charitable
Partisan rubbish...not so good...
blindboy, 1555758937
Ha ha you started it with the Catholic Church! I was just responding in kind. Save The Children is good.
sypkan, 1555759421
Deal
sypkan, 1555759529
Deal
Good onya
But I would've thought they're a bit dodgy for you with recent revelations....
blindboy, 1555815386
OK I will go with Save The Children
Dear .............,
Thank you for your generous donation of $100.00 to Save the Children.
You are helping to create brighter futures for children.
Please see your official tax receipt below. We will be in touch to let you know how your support is changing children's lives. If you wish to contact us at any time you can do so by contacting us on 1800 76 00 11 or emailing supporter.care@savethechildren.org.au.
With many thanks,
Lauren Drewett
Supporter Care Manager
Your receipt:
Payment Details
Payment Date: 21/04/2019
Receipt No: 31463465
Amount: $100.00
For: Most Urgent Need
AndyM, 1555816832
Good on you BB.
Blowin, 1555818223
Good on you !
blindboy, 1555832393
The Things A President Forgets!
He did not remember learning about a Trump Tower meeting held in June 2016 by his son, son-in-law and campaign chairman with visiting Russians promising “dirt” on Hillary Clinton from the Russian government.
He did not remember being told in advance of Russian hacking of Democratic emails before the stolen messages were posted online.
He did not remember any particular conversations with Roger J. Stone Jr., a longtime adviser, during the last months of the campaign, much less discussions with him about WikiLeaks.
He did not remember discussing a possible trip to Russia to promote a proposed tower project in Moscow.
He did not remember an invitation from Russia’s deputy prime minister to attend an economic forum in St. Petersburg.
Not Guilty……but definitely not innocent!
sypkan, 1555847642
Pretty sure hilary clinton has her own rather long list of...'I do not recall'
What's good for the goose is good for the head goose...
sypkan, 1555847709
.
GuySmiley, 1555880135
Didn't Bush junior and Cheney "lose" many millions of emails, like 22 million of them sent and received on private servers .... What's good for the goose is good for the head goose... but that doesn't fit the narrative does it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy
sypkan, 1555898470
I dunno guysmiley, depends what narrative you're pushing....
All the usual papers are pushing something along the lines of....'How Did We End Up With This Man In the Whitehouse?', because he'd answered 'I do not recall' to a heap of key questions.
Well, the answer is pretty bloody obvious....
Hilary Clinton also answered, to a heap of fundamental key questions ..."I do not recall", and that was that...end of story
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/02/the-many-things-hillary-clinton-couldnt-recall-in-her-fbi-interview/?utm_term=.6630589ebc4a
https://www.thedailybeast.com/hillary-clinton-cant-recall-in-21-of-25-answers-to-judicial-watch-lawsuit
This shit should've been nipped in the bud a long time ago, for all. Including the fuckwits at the aussie banking royal commision ..."I do not recall"....ppffftttt
No accountability...for any of them
And the NYT have the audacity to ask 'How Did We End Up With This Man In the Whitehouse?'
I got nothing,
given what just happened
I got absolutely nothing...flabbarghasted..
absolutelyfuckingflabbaghasted
They're delusional beyond belief
As are their readers, commenting 'thank you, you're wonderful..."
Blowin, 1555903819
They ended up with Trump in the Whitehouse cause crooked Hilary said it was a choice between her or no one as opposition to the orange comb-over.
The world should be thanking whoever exposed those emails , not berating them.
truebluebasher, 1556105840
I think the Golan Heights new blast-thru McDonald's is named after Trump?
Possibly! Israeli PM means to name next razor wired rampart-'Trump foreclosure C11'
Good question for US Austrian Ambassador Big Artie Jnr at Lake Burley Campbell...
indo-dreaming, 1557044325
@Blindboy BTW. This popped up in my Youtube feed for some reason, i thought you might like it :D
Blowin, 1557044860
Two minutes to midnight !
indo-dreaming, 1557047177
This one is good for a laugh..some of it is gold.
Kim Jong Un at 1:00 is classic, you couldn't scrip some of this shit.
indo-dreaming, 1557047881
Had some even better more awkward moments in 2017
velocityjohnno, 1557148182
Two Trump tweets and Dow futures down 480, Shanghai closed 7% down, billions taken off market values worldwide.
Blowin, 1557800993
Go Trump !
https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/trump-has-china-on-the-defensive-20190513-p51mq1.html
Trying to breathe life back into US manufacturing and self sufficiency.
Waiting for the apologies from those who said Trump’s statements to do as much were a lie.
He’s walking the walk , people.
He’s also dealing neoliberalism and globalisation the blows they deserve whilst also signaling the decline of the environmentally ruinous flood of cheap consumer goods from China.
Best president in 50 years.
AndyM, 1557801848
"US President Donald Trump has shaken the foundations of global trade, slapping steep tariffs on billions of dollars' worth of goods from the EU, Canada, Mexico and China."
I think if the foundations of global trade are so fragile, maybe they need a bit of a shake up.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-43512098
sharkman, 1557856020
great trolling , here in the USA at the moment , and they are just starting to get it , that it's not China that pays the tariffs , it's the american people , unemployment is at 3.6% , there are not enough people out of work to create industry's in the USA to replace Chinese products , Trump just had to subsidize American farmers $15 b , as they are now too expensive for China , so their crops are rotting......USA cannot win against China same as Australia , as they have us by the balls as our biggest importer they could send us back to being a banana republic in 24 hrs if they just stopped all Australian imports...duh!
sharkman, 1557856395
Andy be careful what you wish for,""US President Donald Trump has shaken the foundations of global trade, slapping steep tariffs on billions of dollars' worth of goods from the EU, Canada, Mexico and China."
I think if the foundations of global trade are so fragile, maybe they need a bit of a shake up.
The shake up will be a Global recession/ depression or as a lot of economists are saying a Hyper Recession...as there is no QE or lowering interest rates to combat a recession , next one will be a long one...Trump is playing with fire , but he doesn't give fuck about anyone else ,as narcissists do!
Blowin, 1558085618
Go Donald ! Interesting read.
https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/05/come-defence-donald-trump/
Westofthelake, 1558090290
Interesting, sorta.
"Do I agree with Trump on tax policy? No. Do I agree with Trump on social policy? No. Do I agree with Trump’s wall? No. Do I agree on anything Donald Trump does? Very little."
Errr, Tariff war?
It appears that the tariff costs are passed onto the US consumer.
http://time.com/5587197/trump-china-trade-war-cost-families/?amp=true
From the comments section, another perspective,
"it is fire-breathing dictatorship intent on stealing the production base of every developed nation, and it has damn nearly succeeded. Until Donald Trump”
"Aided and abetted at every turn by businessmen in west, including Trump, who manufactured his tacky garbage there without a second thought. China is by no means an angel, but lets not discount the corporate demand for their cheaper labour and the corrupt US lobbying system that drove policy and trade positions.
There’s more than enough greed to go around in this situation. There’s also no reason to assume that in this area alone Trump’s motivations are about anything other than Trump."
blindboy, 1558090624
It's hard to under-estimate a fool.
https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/united-states-japan-trade-negotiations-by-anne-krueger-2019-05
Blowin, 1558120497
Westof .
I think Trump LOVES the role of being the people’s champion and that he truly wants the US to maintain its role as the world’s superpower. Pride is involved.
As long as it doesn’t interfere with his personal interests.
indo-dreaming, 1558131504
Interesting observation that this thread is kind of a reflection of views in America (or what I've been told)
If you go back to the start of this thread when Trump got in we were all WTF and all judging him on his character because he is often rude obnoxious, arrogant and we didn't trust him to be able to be president and we even found the thought to even be scary for the world in general.
Two years or so on, some of us here are obviously still judging his ability as president on his character.
But some of us are now looking at what he can actually do and achieved and going okay, he is still rude obnoxious, arrogant, but he is actually doing a decent job even the fear factor has almost completely disappeared.
I was asking an American friend the other day what people were thinking about him now over there, and he said the same thing in America he still obviously has the haters that really hate him with a passion but others that were not too sure (i guess fence sitters) are going actually he is doing a decent job and turning out to be a good president..
If this continues next election is going to be really interesting.
zenagain, 1558132211
I reckon Sportsbet will pay out early on that one too Indo- Trump will romp it in.
(of course with the help of the Russians)
Blowin, 1558132231
You’re spot on there , BB. I’ve got to keep reassessing my perception of you.
No doubt you are aware that China has made its economic growth partly because of the amazing array of trade restrictions it applies to imports ? It actually has more trade restrictions and tariffs than every other country in the WTO . But when Trump does it .....bad,
Big fan of the TPP were you ? Ever think that the IMF might have a barrow to push ? Yeah , you know the IMF , they’ve been one of the mst powerful engines behind the global adoption of neoliberalism.
Did you like their description of the TPP ?
“It would have strengthened labor and environmental standards, established a new dispute-resolution mechanism, and created a framework for managing e-commerce, cyber security, intellectual-property rights, data mobility, and more.”
Particularly when they described a situation whereby any multinational corporations which doesn’t like a decision by a sovereign government can take a country to an international court and sue them . Think the Australian government having to spend millions defending the plain packaging on cigarettes.
And everything else in the gushing paragraph describing the TPP is circumvented by the ISDS clause. “ strengthened labour and environmental laws” ......only if they don’t inconvenience Phillip Morris or Chevron.
The TPP isn’t about increasing protections for workers or the environment, it’s about enabling corporations to ignore inconvenient national jurisdictions in their global search for the cheapest labour , most lax environmental conditions , most disempowered communities and biggest markets .
It’d be easy to write your desire to post this link as yet another example of you as the ultimate Fake Left exponent, but it’s more likely that you didn’t really understand it and you just saw someone saying Trump is bad and got overexcited.
PS - And exactly how well is the Japanese economy flourishing due to the TPP , compared to the US which avoided it ?
I’d suggest being a little bit more apolitical when considering the decisions a country makes regarding its future, but I don’t thnk your dislike of Trump is political. It’s irrational.
PPS BB , while we are marvelling at the proclivities of fools , I just read that 800,000 new homes will be required in NSW by 2023 to accommodate the artificially sustained population growth .
EIGHT HUNDRED THOUSAND !
Tell me again how that won’t affect the environment.
[img]https://i.ibb.co/Ycxp212/F5-CDA6-F0-B374-448-E-8-C7-E-F611-E4-E1369-A.png[/img]
Or using Blindby’s preferred housing of higher density, this is what our environment will soon look like :
[img]https://i.ibb.co/rmGsRDy/93-EC239-A-107-F-4-D1-D-AAD1-86-C0-C48-B25-D3.png[/img]
sharkman, 1558133982
Indo , I just got back from SoCal , and in a sense you are right , it looks like the US economy is doing really well , so people are quick to look at good GDP figures and a general feeling that all is good , and going well , the problem is it'sa false economy at the moment propped up by massive borrowing again/still , so that's the economy/$'s pretty Westernized short term thinking.
trump is doing a lot of damage to the long term global economy , with the silly trade war with China ( which is hurting the USA economy a lot more than he thinks )....all in the name of more jobs ...the unemployment level is at 3.6% so there is no need for new jobs in manufacturing , America is great , was great , but has lost the respect of it's allies, so if the economy slips he's doomed to losing the election , and lets see what climate issues will have in 2020....I doubt he will be re-elected , but maybe that's just hope?
Blowin, 1558135893
Making a move towards ridding the world of cheap , highly disposable consumer goods would be the second greatest contribution towards saving the environment that any leader could achieve.
Trump is attempting to do this.
Sharkman - An unemployment rate of 3.6 might sound great , but with the size of the US population, that still leaves over 12,000,000 Americans out of work. I’m sure they could find someone willing to do the work.
Maybe even someone from the former industrial heartland of America which lost all of its jobs to China ? The very same people who elected Trump because he said he’d try and bring their jobs back.
Fancy a politician doing what he promised and prioritising his nation and his fellow people !
velocityjohnno, 1558145007
Ridding the oceans of a lot of the cheap plastics/single use plastics can only be a good thing.
Blowin I read the link above and was impressed with the simple contrast between Hamiltonian style tariffs and Ricardo's free trade. A nice explanation. The latter works, only so long as everyone else also does this. Everyone else has been playing mercantilism.
Found a beaut IMF data point on the relative protection of different countries recently, wish I could find the link again. Australia had a 0.9 compared to much higher global averages, and higher individual nation rates, no wonder we have no car manufacturers.
I'd also suggest John Williams' site 'ShadowStats' for the correct US unemployment figure, M2 figure etc. He uses methods of calculation as used in the 1980s before the spaghetti of different adjustments and data massaging.
blindboy, 1558147348
Trump's real environmental policies
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/02/15-ways-trump-administration-impacted-environment/
factotum, 1559717548
An Australian citizen comments on another Australian citizen:
https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/assange-has-been-arrested-for-us-extradition-the-time-to-act-is-now-aad3578ee82d?fbclid=IwAR3VI1pz7hCVPeDYV_ydKmJhnHi5yA-humd8cbg03s3LrI8bNRjcRS1HeaI
factotum, 1559717808
Been there, done that. Must've missed it, hey? Kinda like, I dunno, Labor's negative gearing policy from the start of 2016?
Here's a read. Warning: it's a read.
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve?fbclid=IwAR329REsGcG53ICtWGF0KSUQwygF7BY13A5RMCnNuMQsG6ItuHjHNUmYwCE
Hang on, what's all this?
https://www.swellnet.com/comment/584073
truebluebasher, 1560424515
Brits just did the dirty & signed over Assange to US. Appeal Pending!
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/uk-signs-extradition-order-for-assange-decision-now-with-courts
Blowin, 1561185240
Washington Post pushing for war on Iran , just like they did when they pushed for war on Iraq ( 27 pro war editorials supporting Bush invading).
So much for Trump being the threat to world peace. It’s because of the very fact that he opposes military conflict that the Military Industrial Complex, with the aid of the MSM ,have tried to depose him with fictional Russian collusion narrative .
Trump is being railroaded into war with Iran. Rogue US generals have tried to wedge him politically with a false flag operation wherein they attacked oil tankers and blamed Iran. This failed so they provoked Iran with drone incursion into sovereign airspace until the Iranians shot down the drone.
The assumption was that Trump would be forced to retaliate or appear weak. Trump used the brilliant political move to reply that his respect for humanity was greater than the need to respond to loss of an unmanned drone.
The Industrial Military Complex and their MSM support will continue to create conflict between the USA and Iran. Another false flag attack is likely.
One of the most vocal proponents of attacking Iran is the Republican congresswoman Liz Cheney......the daughter of the warmonger Dick Cheney who was the main proponent of the illegal invasion of Iraq.
Trump is literally our best hope for peace. He has broadcast his intentions to increase the peace since day one of his election campaign . The warmonger Clinton was not meant to lose the election, this failure to assure a continuance of war was not acceptable.
. Be aware of the MSM increasing the drumbeat for war.
https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/to-avoid-a-wider-war-iran-must-...
factotum, 1561197961
Tremendous analysis. Really got to the core of the man.
[img]https://i.ibb.co/02HhGZC/downloadfile.jpg[/img]
Maybe I should double post this 'yuge' portrait, hey? Front page. Tremendous.
factotum, 1561198043
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
truebluebasher, 1561212741
Difficult to judge who's the biggest Dick or Tit ! (tbb is not sexist about brexit)
Trump : "Your Fired Episode #50" (How to re-sack rebound acting Staff!)
"White House Record" staff turnover for cabinet & single department.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/16/us/politics/all-the-major-firings-and-resignations-in-trump-administration.html
2016-19 Australian Govt Record (Lib PM's 1 + 1.5 + 2)+(Deputy PM's 1+2)
Record (66) ministers resigned/left with some vile swill returning after spill.
Yep! Of course they got re-elected...Durr!
Margaret May's Lib Govt (as of 23rd May 2019 ) 50 resignations off & racing.
Note: More resigned with Leader resigning and more right up until new leader.
Then 100 more resign & get sacked when Boris goes barking mad.
UK look so fucked up they may prove more lazy arse than Oz Liberal pollies.(Wot?)
Please can swellnetonians explain Global Right Wing Govt Anarchy (WTF)
100's soon 1000's of same team world leaders stabbing each other in the back.
Observers say it's that Mel Brooks 'Acid in the water Cooler' Get Smart remake.
"Welcome to your right wing dream planet kidz!"
"What ideals do right wing leaders bring to the World Kidz!"(Hate! & Hate! & Hate!)
"Very good class!"
"What does the world do with this world record pile of selfish stinking arse shit !"
"Yes! That's right kiddies, we yank the chain & flush the shit down the drain!"
"That's it squish em all down the loo...Mind the concentrated evil don't backwash!"
(Boris & Donald & Scomo Too!)
"Don't be silly kidz...we need a World Record sized Toilet for those turds!"
factotum, 1561253790
Unflushable, TBB?
Time for a completely new toilet system.
truebluebasher, 1564988487
dick pics laws! (Are not something tbb want's to examine in any detail).
Town square Nude Trump statues & paintings (Above) are censored for media.
Although UK Newspaper & US Radio had no issue with what is shown here.
tbb informs that this exhibit is tame compared to other news & surf media of late.
Relax...tbb won't link to other mainstream dick pic examples but shall expose them.
2 weeks ago on Beach Grit
"Is the Pool at Lemoore Kelly Slater's micro barrel coup de grace?"
'Photos' of a Nude male modelling his micro barrel so to speak...
tbb is guessing dickpics are 'photos' not paintings so that rules out link to swellnet.
2 Aug'19 (Model Mum's Story) Gold Coast Bulletin Facebook
Anne F.. posts a picture of.. [Cut off Dicks in a bowl] (No! That wasn't the icky bit!) Caption: [ "Eat them & Shut the Fuck Up!" ]
tbb could be wrong but didn't [facebook] ban photos of petticoats & cupcakes.
Promise not to link a bowl of [facebook] dicks to this or any site ever! (No way!)
tbb never wanted to touch subject matter...just saying swellnet are less creepy!
Blowin, 1603337717
John Lyndon is voting for Trump.
That’s going to break some fragile hearts.