Botany Nerds Ahoy

blackers wrote:

This is an interesting read on plant flammability. Pertinent for many. Surprising that so little research has been done on this. We covered fire ecology back in the day, following up the Ash Wednesday bushfires. Clearly still much to learn.
https://www.smh.com.au/interactive/2023/tree-flammability/

Blackers. Hi. Can’t open it, need a subscription.

Many contributing factors to levels of flammability, overall biomass volume, cellulose and lignin densities, varying levels and types of biochemicals, oils, terpenes, waxes etc.
Hardwood versus softwood.

Pity I can’t open the article, AW

Thats no good. Try this link to the paper this article was based on.

https://www.publish.csiro.au/wf/pdf/WF22192

Blackers. Thanks for reconfiguring it so I could read it. Much appreciated.

Read it in its entirety. Interesting for sure. Similar work along these lines has been around for awhile, I found it a bit repetitive. Alas, thanks again for making it available to all of us. AW

Blackers. Also, with reference to that article, there is a blatant error.
They regularly referred to the plant Murraya paniculata (Orange Jessamine) as an exotic ( not native) , when it’s actually native to Australia as well as Southern and SE Asia. Gross error. AW

I think there is a lot of scientific knowledge out there on plant flammability and its impact on various ecosystems in Oz, maybe it’s just not widely known to the general public?
Couple classic examples in the NT include the introduced buffel grass and gamba grass which are devastating to the arid and savanna ecosystems respectively as they burn very hot, killing trees and vegetation that were tolerant to the previously cooler fires.
Despite buffel grass being a known threat to native ecosystems, graziers are actively spreading seed due to its grazing benefits and apparently there is research into cold tolerant varieties that could be used further south.

Distracted wrote:

I think there is a lot of scientific knowledge out there on plant flammability and its impact on various ecosystems in Oz, maybe it’s just not widely known to the general public? .......

Maybe. My initial comment was based on the original article (behind a paywall) where the lead scientist indicated there was a lack of specific data. The research they did looked at quantifiable data about flammability (time to flame, flame temp, and flame duration) of specific larger plant species, with a focus on the Blue Mountains urban interface. Perhaps it's the drill-down data that is felt to be missing?

Distracted wrote:

I think there is a lot of scientific knowledge out there on plant flammability and its impact on various ecosystems in Oz, maybe it’s just not widely known to the general public?
Couple classic examples in the NT include the introduced buffel grass and gamba grass which are devastating to the arid and savanna ecosystems respectively as they burn very hot, killing trees and vegetation that were tolerant to the previously cooler fires.
Despite buffel grass being a known threat to native ecosystems, graziers are actively spreading seed due to its grazing benefits and apparently there is research into cold tolerant varieties that could be used further south.

Distracted. Hi, hope you’re well.
Agree with all that.

Pastoral activities here in Victoria have created a similar scenario, notably where I live.

Once popular cool season pasture grasses , Phalaris, Dactylis, Lolium and others are our by volume, our worst roadside species choking stands of Themeda, Austrodanthonia, Dicanthium etc.

The former grasses complete their life cycle before Xmas and leave dense, high biomass inflorescences of white straw like masses all over the landscape.

Converse to that, when we have fires, it’s those grasses that catch fire quickly and spread fast.
Local farmers who are in the CFA then fight these fires and days later are heralded as heroes for stopping a possible tragedy that when you think about it, they created it in the first place. Does my head in.
I had to quit Landcare years ago, they just couldn’t see the big picture.

Our warm season native grasses are green over Summer and tend not to burn as readily.

BTW I’m still on the red algae case, finding it difficult to get on a track to a successful identification, I’ve been given a PhD student’s name by a colleague to follow up this week.
I’ll keep you posted.AW

[quote=AlfredWallace

BTW I’m still on the red algae case, finding it difficult to get on a track to a successful identification, I’ve been given a PhD student’s name by a colleague to follow up this week.
I’ll keep you posted.AW

Legend! Cheers AW. I had tried the Aus Museum but they referred me on to the Aus Bot Gardens, yet to hear back.

seeds wrote:

Plants from foreign lands are impressive in the cooler climes. In parks and gardens of course. I’ve no idea what this is other than maybe a fir.

Seeds. Late hooking in this evening. That’s an easy one .

It’s a Deodar Cedar or Himalayan Cedar. (Cedrus deodara )

A very popular conifer in cool climes , planted everywhere down here.
A very stately tree with big spreading almost horizontal branches.
A great park or specimen tree.

Another species Cedrus libini Lebanon Cedar is also an outstanding tree, it’s on the Lebanese flag from memory.

Both are proper pines from the Pinaceae family. AW.

^^ The cedar is very common as a street tree in Bright! Those cones are a real standout.

blackers wrote:

^^ The cedar is very common as a street tree in Bright! Those cones are a real standout.

Blackers. Morning mate. Lovely photo of a female tree.

My brother lives in Bright, often we walk the whole town, some intentional or unintentional plantings decades ago has given the town a bit of an arboretum type feel. Good stuff. AW

It is a little microcosm of the wider plant world for sure Alfred. Reflective of the backgrounds of the people who settled in the region. Stunning at all times of the year.

blackers wrote:

It is a little microcosm of the wider plant world for sure Alfred. Reflective of the backgrounds of the people who settled in the region. Stunning at all times of the year.

Blackers. Great statement mate. ‘Reflective of the backgrounds of people who settled the region’.

When you look at the history of that area, immigrants have imprinted their skills and love of agriculture/horticulture, leisure, especially in the fields of, tobacco, hops, olives, grapes, chickory and further up the mounts, the ski fields.

What we would we have done without the influx of those great pioneers and their willing to have a go at anything attitude?

“ I am, you are, we are Australian”. AW

seeds - those trees at the Cataract Gorge?

Here’s one you’ll rarely see. Spotted on my travels today, not a native but an unusual tree.

This will test the grey matter. Last time I saw a couple was early 90’s.

Fruit a little larger than a cricket ball.

Interesting!

Just Googled it, it's an Osage Orange.

planted as hedge tree by earlier settlers. still there in the mid-ovens

Craig wrote:

Interesting!

What, bloody Google, taken away the ability to learn, ah well, it’s the age we live in. AW

seeds wrote:

Those fruit edible AW?

Seeds. Definitely not edible. There were two trees at separate locations in the same very wealthy suburb in Melbourne the first time I saw them, obviously I thought I’d try to eat or taste them, puke, so astringent.

The tree could easily be mistaken for an Elm Tree from a distance and I think they have been by some.
Very tough and hardy .

The Osage area is named after Indians from around the Oklahoma area of Nth. America.

Maclura pomifera because the fruit is a pome fruit. AW

awesome looking fruit - In the same way I love how much it makes sense in Aus to cull a feral pine for christmas and stick it in the corner, maybe decorating with dried Deodar Cedar cones and Osage Oranges dyed with Cochineal bug pigment is the next step?

seeds wrote:

Alfred you can actually google images not just text

Seeds. I’m a bit old school, like to try to work it out from plant fruit keys, then books or when all else fails. Rummage through Google, I’m not a fan at all of these so called Plant Snaps, photo assisted stuff, I’ve got a brain, I try to use it, I don’t learn anything from instant gratification, my view only. AW

basesix wrote:

awesome looking fruit - In the same way I love how much it makes sense in Aus to cull a feral pine for christmas and stick it in the corner, maybe decorating with dried Deodar Cedar cones and Osage Oranges dyed with Cochineal bug pigment is the next step?

Basesix. Hi mate. Now that’d be a cocktail. It’s a very decorative fruit, stays hard for quite awhile , gets a real pong when the pectin in the cell walls slowly start to break down and it goes soft and stinky. Alas, an interesting tree.
Bonza has found some interesting supplementary information regarding old hedges,. AW

A few shots from a very succulent beach in South Oz.

A single species of a plant and another pink organism in an aqueous environment.

AlfredWallace wrote:

basesix wrote:

awesome looking fruit - In the same way I love how much it makes sense in Aus to cull a feral pine for christmas and stick it in the corner, maybe decorating with dried Deodar Cedar cones and Osage Oranges dyed with Cochineal bug pigment is the next step?

Basesix. Hi mate. Now that’d be a cocktail. It’s a very decorative fruit, stays hard for quite awhile , gets a real pong when the pectin in the cell walls slowly start to break down and it goes soft and stinky. Alas, an interesting tree.
Bonza has found some interesting supplementary information regarding old hedges,. AW

wonder if that thing Victorian Poms did with oranges, sticking them with cloves to absorb moisture and stave the stink, would work with Osage? Probably not if they are appley/quincey, rather than citriccy (I know how you like technical terms AW ; )

basesix wrote:

AlfredWallace wrote:

basesix wrote:

awesome looking fruit - In the same way I love how much it makes sense in Aus to cull a feral pine for christmas and stick it in the corner, maybe decorating with dried Deodar Cedar cones and Osage Oranges dyed with Cochineal bug pigment is the next step?

Basesix. Hi mate. Now that’d be a cocktail. It’s a very decorative fruit, stays hard for quite awhile , gets a real pong when the pectin in the cell walls slowly start to break down and it goes soft and stinky. Alas, an interesting tree.
Bonza has found some interesting supplementary information regarding old hedges,. AW

wonder if that thing Victorian Poms did with oranges, sticking them with cloves to absorb moisture and stave the stink, would work with Osage? Probably not if they are appley/quincey, rather than citriccy (I know how you like technical terms AW ; )

Basesix. Well, that’s scientific jargon at its highest order right there. Prof.David Bellamy in the making, for sure.

It’s a strange fruit, very hard and tight pith, neither apple, pear, quince like, I doubt any humans would have eaten it, it’s foul mouthed for sure.

Some animals or birds maybe, I’m just intrigued by it because it’s not a fruit that most would have seen, unless you live around Oklahoma. AW

no worries Seeds. Thought it looked familiar.

radical looking fruit that Osage Orange. Not one Ive seen before. But I can see the fruit resemblance to the cockspur vine (Maclura cochinchinensis), of the mulberry family, and actually tastes pretty good.

GreenJam wrote:

no worries Seeds. Thought it looked familiar.

radical looking fruit that Osage Orange. Not one Ive seen before. But I can see the fruit resemblance to the cockspur vine (Maclura cochinchinensis), of the mulberry family, and actually tastes pretty good.

Greenjam. Hi mate, how’s things.

Thanks for mentioning Maclura cochichinensis , didn’t know we had a native one here in Oz.
I’ve read that Gwen Harden book in full since I purchased, must have missed it entirely.
Alas, just looked at its fruit, miniature version of the Osage Orange (physically)

That’s my learnings for the day, chuffed, thanks again. AW

seeds wrote:

The Cataract Gorge tree is a Giant Sequoia
Sequoiadendron giganteum
https://trusttrees.org.au/tree/TAS/Launceston/Cataract_Gorge_5

Seeds. Which tree ? The early photos with the female fruits are of Cedrus deodara

Sequoiadendron giganteum has different foliage and fruits.

There may well be a a very large tree that is your aforementioned tree but not those early photos where you stated you didn’t know what type of/are trees in the photos.
I’ve stood under and looked at both Sequoia sempervirens and Sequoiadendron giganteum trees in California, they are nothing like those first photos you posted. I’m a little confused now. All good. AW.

seeds wrote:

seeds wrote:

First time I’ve seen one of these. This one just over 100 years old so maybe just a teenager in human years

ps. There’s a Hilux parked on the other side of that trunk a few metres away. That’s why I took the photo at that angle so as to it not being seen.

^^^^^

Seeds. Yes, they are Redwoods for sure.

I’ve responded to the photos of the latter trees , the Cedars you posted and assumed they were one and all.

Sincere apologies for the confusion, my error, definitely trunks of trees in the Cupressaceae family. AW

seeds wrote:

Halobacteria in the lake.

Seeds. Hi mate. Yep, halophytic green algae, Dunaliella salina.
Produces enormous amounts of beta-carotene, hence the pink lake affect. Love it. AW

Seeds. If it’s ok, bit more supplementary information regarding algae.

I’m fascinated by algae.
We have three groups, Brown, Red and Green

It’s a misnomer that Blue-Green algae is called that, because it’s not an algae at all, the ones that cop the wrath for algal blooms.
It’s actually a bacteria, for example Cyanobacteria, the one that was part of liberating the first oxygen atoms into a once past and historic reducing-atmosphere that quickly became the atmosphere we know today. Prior to that event there was no oxygen at all.
Reading about Stromatolites will shed further great information about this type of bacteria. AW

g'day AW. All pretty good here thanks, spending plenty of time on the coast, swimming, SUPing, anything to avoid all the mowing and other maintenance back out home.... but I'll be back into it from tomorrow.

hope you are well, seems you've been on some interesting travels - I've been checking in here regularly just not commenting much.

glad I could help you learn something. I called it the cockspur vine, not sure if that's technically correct, it's more like a woody climber/scrambler. Comes up naturally quite a bit in the reveg and other garden areas, and I really like it, many dont, I like that it adds a whole other structural element to a reveg area, and can get thick, making good spiky nesting areas for small birds.

thanks for your inputs and keep the good info flowing, I enjoy it

GreenJam wrote:

g'day AW. All pretty good here thanks, spending plenty of time on the coast, swimming, SUPing, anything to avoid all the mowing and other maintenance back out home.... but I'll be back into it from tomorrow.

hope you are well, seems you've been on some interesting travels - I've been checking in here regularly just not commenting much.

glad I could help you learn something. I called it the cockspur vine, not sure if that's technically correct, it's more like a woody climber/scrambler. Comes up naturally quite a bit in the reveg and other garden areas, and I really like it, many dont, I like that it adds a whole other structural element to a reveg area, and can get thick, making good spiky nesting areas for small birds.

thanks for your inputs and keep the good info flowing, I enjoy it

Greenjam. Hello. Feeling is mutual and reciprocal.

I’m learning a lot from you about rainforest vegetation of the eastern seaboard in all its biomes. Thanks. AW.

Did someone mention cyanobacteria?

Don't get me started- most amazing story on Earth.

I love cyanobacteria.

freeride76 wrote:

Did someone mention cyanobacteria?

Don't get me started- most amazing story on Earth.

I love cyanobacteria.

Freeride76. How’s things, long time no speak.

Me too, you bet, without it, we’d be nothing.

I’ve visited Hamelin Pool in NW West Oz on many occasions, last time there was 2000.

There I was on the weird shaped boardwalk watching Stromatolites do their stuff as they’ve done for billions of years, every few seconds to a minute, a bubble of oxygen would migrate upwards to the surface and their in your face was a process that’s never ceased since it began. I simply couldn’t look away, mesmerising to say the least, didn’t want to leave, could’ve watch it for days, weeks, months, and even years, it was like life bubbling up to a new world.

One of the biological worlds truly amazing processes.
AW

seeds wrote:

What is the itchy rash on my………….. haha
You know AW I never knew that blue green algae wasn’t actually an algae and maybe I see the harm it causes and why the authorities give warnings about it.

Seeds. Hi mate.

As Freeride76 stated, remarkable story, well worth giving yourself an hour some day to read all about it.
You’ll be a wiser person for doing so. All the best. AW

A couple of amphibians poking their heads out last evening to get a bit wetter than normal.
Beautiful calls heard between both species to others nearby. AW

Not botany but check this out Coextinction NITV, well worth a watch

but still interconnected