Next Federal Election
"Trees , Natives , should B planted Everywhere , by kids !"
Have to agree with you there Pop, I've often said there should be some sort of national service along those lines (didn't Blindboy love that idea!).
Plant trees, care for the elderly, go after feral animals and weeds etc.
Maybe it would reduce or cancel any future HECS debt or something similar.
Hello Andy
Blindly sounds like a guy I would like 2 chat 2 .
I would suggest 2 him that anyone who needed National Service , 2 Plant a Tree or visit a Retirement home , aren't the RIGHT people , 4 those important roles .
Our Children , if given the Chance and Leadership , will love Them , much more !
The National Service Crew can do the Weeding , Dishwashing , Cleaning Toilets and Going After , the other fn Feral animals .
I can think of a lot for Stuff for them 2 do , but will wait and C how many workers I have after the above Hard Work , is done .
Everyone Should contribute , if they can .
Its a bloody obligation imho !
Yeah possibly, but an incentive to get out there would be a good start for many.
It's pure pipedream in any case.
Andy
Getting Everyone who CAN 2 contribute , sure is a Pipedream !
However , having the correct Incentives and Boundaries , 2 ensure Everyone does WANT 2 contribute , should be a NORMAL part of Australian society and Culture .
Any sensible Changes 2 these incentives and boundaries , should be a normal thing and WILL B supported by the Electorate ( the MSM will go Crazy ) .
yep, opti doesn't get much respect on here...
(he just gets constant swipes from frowning cunts actually...)
but his ideas on energy are spot on
if only bowen and albo, and their private jets, cared half as much...
Optimist wrote:Ash, it’s better for Govts to put panels on homes than spend up big on energy generators. For example around 30% of all electricity generated is for hot water alone and we used to have govt subsidised solar hot water systems.
This was much cheaper for the govt than building new power plants but the scheme was dumped by a Labor lunatic named Kevin Rudd. ….and he dumped it in a day putting thousands out of work with unsaleable stock the same day.
….and yep I voted for him……I still feel the shame.
To their credit, the libs have done the maths and IF everyone is going to be burning around in electric cars charged up with zero emissions power you have to have nuclear power to do it as the base load requirement would be way too high..
I’m against nuclear power and marched in all the rallies in Sydney in the 70’s.
I remember being photographed by the spooks ha ha.
I believe in small scale power generation……what you produce is what you use. And I also believe in gas powered transport. It burns clean you just need to produce it clean to make it renewable.
The world distance record for a prime mover was in Europe 1700 klms on one tank of natural gas….burns clean and we have lots…that’s how your veggies should get to woolies.
Plant the trees back…the developers are wreaking havoc with no controls especially around coastal towns….Govts do nothing…..local councils maniacs.
If you not living in a coastal town right now you have missed the boat GO WEST.
Start developing treeless unused farmland instead and plant trees on those blocks for homes and have off grid onsite sewerage.
The Labor party are as usual running a program with no real plan. The idea of net zero is good but completely unachievable on the current trajectory.
We don’t need expensive chinese battery systems on homes either as the good old battery banks work fine and are easily upgraded.
To me, small scale everything with everyone responsible for their own energy generation and consumption is the future along with high tech gas powered transport using LPG, LNG and eventually BIO gases…
And put the trees back…. Tony Abbott was smart enough to put the trees back but the plan was scrapped by Labor and the Greens…
…..they would rather a mechanical method rather than a natural one…
And now they are importing and dumping 600,000 more souls a year on us to house and energise.
Makes you wonder doesn’t it…..whoever you vote for, make sure they are the ones thinking the whole thing through…….right now I see no plan anywhere.
and yeh...
fuck electric cars
not totally... we are just not ready fpr them yet, and labor's populist energy zealotry is looking rather stupid...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13262449/a...
electric cars... manufactured with fossil fuels, made from questionable mining operation minerals, then fuelled by burning fossil fuels...
all a bit silly really
a kind of social status social posturing with little substance
reminds me of something...
battery recycle time is the big thing - say at 8 years or 10 years, what happens if the cost of replacing the battery is more than the value of the used car? Scrap time.
velocityjohnno wrote:battery recycle time is the big thing - say at 8 years or 10 years, what happens if the cost of replacing the battery is more than the value of the used car? Scrap time.
Many people....experts, commenters, anonymous online mugs...think that, in the future, batteries won't be the property of the car owner. Most likely, they'll be removed and recharged by third party companies - petrol companies pivoting to EV? - and treated the same way gas bottles are now.
Few vids around of Chinese taxis changing out batteries in a minute or so. About the same time as filling half a tank of petrol.
Point being, if it comes to pass, the recycling of batteries will be the responsibility of recharging stations.
velocityjohnno wrote:battery recycle time is the big thing - say at 8 years or 10 years, what happens if the cost of replacing the battery is more than the value of the used car? Scrap time.
yep
and a big pile of lithium landfill...
I don't really know... but a guy that knows stuff, the other day told me lithium is non recyclable...
that may change
but atm, big piles of spent minerals and various other turbiney apparatus going to landfill is looking a bit environmental disaster-ish...
none of it looks particularly well thought out
seems it should stay a niche industry until shit sorts itself out...
"seems it should stay a niche industry until shit sorts itself out..."
You mean gets regulated?
God forbid!
well that...
but moreso, I was thinking ill thought out subsidies and penalties for the little people...
The free market doing what the free market does.
EDIT: Not meaning to be flippant but point is our govt - in fact most Western govts - gave up on innovation years ago to the point where public involvement means public funding of private companies. It largely works, yet clearly hasn't in this instance where oversight and long-term planning would be better placed. To do so, however, would be to create new govt depts in a time of outrage over public service wage costs.
It's also an ideological change that wouldn't go unnoticed by certain media outlets.
US Inflation Reduction Act has included lots of incentives to bring the tech of the new green economy to the US - including lithium and battery recycling. So I've watched LICY - LiCycle holdings, had one of the Tesla boffins as part of it's initial team iirc, so smart guys, track record of huge gains doing green things.... and... stock has been a rollercoaster straight down to the floor. Seems getting dirty and pulling the batteries apart isn't as profitable as putting them together. Not investment advice...
Volvo wrote polestar down to zero value...
China has great paddocks of unsold EVs (capital misallocation)
Stu I note the exchangeable battery idea, that's smart, but these batteries will need pulling apart at end of life too and so what is EROEI and can a company doing this be profitable without making the cost of hire very expensive?
a massive failure basically
incentives to incentivise investment elsewhere...
(china basically - a heroin the billionaires seem very reluctant to kick...)
a massive lost opportunity in regard to government taking the power back from corporations regarding energy...
and lost opportunity getting people onside with a bit of opti influence in the energy transition roll out...
"...would be to create new govt depts in a time of outrage over public service wage costs."
the outrage is not unwarranted...
the cunts achieve nothing but meddling in people's lives
meanwhile... the big ones... the stuff that matters... the stuff governments used to do... are now free range, 'free markets' for massive corporations...
ie. health, energy, education...
as I have said before, it is well past time governments sets up a triage strategy to save what matters...
to all people
not extensive offices, staff, and strategies for little niche (minority) greviances...
the people haven't lost faith in government in a vacuum
i hate to get on the mr. milei train...
but we need his chainsaw! ...and funnel the funds to the shit that matters...
australia is still save-able...
but I'm not seeing any effort at all to do so atm
I like your thinking Syp.
I still feel sorry for the horse even though that's long since passed away.
What are you on about syp? Governments are spending trillions in this country. Our economy would collapse without government spending. Sure, we can have a discussion on mis allocation of funds, return on investments etc. But reality is, it’s a huge chunk of the economy and a lot is being done. Enacting huge changes in this country wouldn’t even require extra funding.
"...Governments are spending trillions in this country..."
yep
thats what Im talking about...
if I may go a bit 'marxist' for a moment...
government could have bought the means of production back!
means of production of energy that is...
so the public is not at the mercy of corporations and overseas gas cartels regarding the purchasing and pricing of power
a bit 1980s I know...
but you know, privatising everything, and spending millions and billions on equity officers and the like seems to have won just about no one over...
you're a Fabianist, sypkan, I like it.
Governments trying 2 work out which Energy Horse 2 back ?
What could go Wong , if Green had the balance of Power , or the Teals ?
The reason we are in this mess , is that State Governments have Banned Gas Exploration !!!
Australia already has a higher % of Public Workers , the fn Argentina .
If a Country specialises in an Energy , eg Saudi / Oil , UAE / Gas , its easy as no Government Decisions need 2 B made .
Our Govt should know how much Electricity , on average , we use .
Just times the number of bloody people by how much Output , we can produce and C if it equals the average rate .
If it doesn't , let the market build more, as prices will rise if u don't .
Pop Down wrote:Governments trying 2 work out which Energy Horse 2 back ?
What could go Wong , if Green had the balance of Power , or the Teals ?
The reason we are in this mess , is that State Governments have Banned Gas Exploration !!!
Australia already has a higher % of Public Workers , the fn Argentina .
If a Country specialises in an Energy , eg Saudi / Oil , UAE / Gas , its easy as no Government Decisions need 2 B made .
Our Govt should know how much Electricity , on average , we use .
Just times the number of bloody people by how much Output , we can produce and C if it equals the average rate .
If it doesn't , let the market build more, as prices will rise if u don't .
Best thing about sweeping statements is we can all make them.
So, are u using Argentina as a golden example of having less public servants? Lat time I checked, it was a freakn basket case. Perhaps they need more?
As far as banning fracking, I live in the country. You city folk probably think sausages grow on trees. You realise most of us out here rely on clean bore water?
And wouldnt the gas companies just ship it off anyway, like the do now?
Insert ranting below. I'll wait
Hello Sheep dog
Mate , happy to get specific and back up any claim , I can also rant haha .
If you are from the the Country U SHOULD know that the Fracking of Shale and Coal Seams is done all over the fn world and does NOT affect Major Artesian Oceans ffs .
They produce more than half the daily USA , petroleum output ffs .
Stop Fracking and the US stops .
Same here in OZ and WE have Stopped fn Fracking , new Projects ffs !
U probably watched a tap being lit as well .
Check out the Good Work Gladstone has done after your like Blocked it all the way .
Tens of Thousands of Side tracked Wells have been drilled up there for 10 years .
Name one Puddle , they contaminated .
U get specific , please .
The Gladstone Gas and most of the Nort West Shelf Gas , goes Off Shore , as Off Shore Utility companies Funded the projects .
We can Fund and Build these projects with Australian money , if only the Government would let the banks do it .
The Future Fund can Fund 4 Gladstone's !
I used Argentina as an example as it is a Basket Case ffs , with annual inflation of 250% .
I have been talking about Javier Melei for months .
U need to catch up , any questions ?
^ I agree @PoppaD, and was intrigued that they are about to dig-up and frack the shit out of Albert Park GC. Gas to be sent OS apparently. Can only be a good thing. We're currently 2nd world exporter, but let's strive to ring that bell! Returning the APGC to bushland would be better, but maybe the frackers will voluntarily do that once they've got what they want. Good blokes I hear ; )
Coonawarra here is screaming for protections from fracking. They say why risk it (cleanest limestone-filtered artesian basin in the world) when they contribute so much to local employment, tourism, and wine export dollars. Just short-sighted pussies I guess.
Pop what's with your obsession that a high level of people working in the public sector wrecks the economy?
Do you support full privitisation of health care, education and policing?
...and roads?
Cos we all know how well that's going...
Andy
I freaked out this week about Public Sector workers , after Reading we had more , % wise , than Argentina .
Always knew we were over governed , look at all the New Advsors over the last 10 years they have employed .
Over my Gazillion years , I have just seen Private ( that's incentivised ) do thing better , than government .
Imagine the Government running Swellnet :) !!!
Stu would have a bloody monopoly , on his hands ffs !
From Running our Blood Collection and Plasma making ( CSL ) 2 Private Hospitals .
I worked hard to send my daughters to Private schools .
A Defence Force and State Police force , should be Public , I think .
Basic things like Healthcare and Education , especially in Country areas , definitely need 2B Public , so can't C Full Privatisation , working here and why try it ?
Rail Road Private , Roads , Public and I use Private Roads 2 .
Some New Industries that need 2B regrown , may start as Public and then Floated , Private .
" I have just seen Private ( that's incentivised ) do thing better , than government".
Sorry Pop.
Not only has privatisation failed, the politics of privatisation have failed.
Stop living in the past.
Thanks Andy , just start with one example and help me live in the present ffs .
I will have some dinner , U get Fracking and I will see C what U spew up for me , afterwards , mate .
Perhaps giving me ONE Company or Asset , U think U should be Re Nationalised , will be a bit easier , 4U , 2 stomach ?
AndyM wrote:" I have just seen Private ( that's incentivised ) do thing better , than government".
Sorry Pop.
Not only has privatisation failed, the politics of privatisation have failed.
Stop living in the past.
Privatisation HAS NOT failed, quite the opposite it proposers, and the consumer now has more choice than ever not only around price and service but also other aspects like who they want to support or not support.
For example you want to support green energy, you can choose a company that focuses on green energy, if you just want the cheapest price you can shop around
Another example, once upon a time with phone service we only had Telecom, if phone providers hadn't been privatised, we would now be in a situation where our mobil & internet would all be run by Telstra and we would have very limited choice around prices and different option's, that would seriously suck
Only areas privatisation doesn't work is where there is no other options or competition like toll roads, once tolls on roads were to pay for say the cost like the Westgate bridge and once paid for toll even removed, but now they are just business with a monopoly, so yeah not everything should be privatised.
you're probably right @indo, government is inefficient at running things, fer sure, and prevalent wisdom is to concentrate on your core business, so those governing need to work out what that is I guess. but think of the positives of the more socialist Aus of yore.. that didn't have to crack a profit, but did a little good:
the telecom phone-box in an isolated country town, the manufacturing support, the bus routes vital to isolated low-socioeconomic suburbs, the extra off-peak train services, free quality education & healthcare.. we could edge back that way, in an improved, learned, modern and transparent way, except there are now people running about yelling 'marxist!' for some bewildering reason.
Privatisation is great if you don't mind losing key assets and then getting ripped off.
Australians would be so much better off if key institutions and infrastructure remained in public hands.
do you really believe privatisation of electricity has been a success?
I haven't looked into it...
but an interesting study would be electricity prices before and after privatisation
not immediately after, but now, 2 or 3 decades down the track...
I find it hard to believe they are now reliatively cheaper
very hard to believe
same with water... i miss the days when kids would drink from any front yard tap in the street...
I may be a romanticising old fool... but privatisation of water did more than just making prices higher...
and speaking of romanticising old fools, I remember back in my apprenticeship days, my middle aged tradesman boss, argueing vehemently that basic services like electricity and water should remain in government control... because they are just that... basic services...
similar to current debates about housing
why is there NO debate, AT ALL regarding basic services?
'the market' decides... badly...
for all but the profiteers
a massive fail...
from you know which side of politics...
Gosh
Our Governments have banned Gas , been turning off coal , subsidising Green Energy and someone blames Privatisation for Increasing Energy fucken prices ffs .
They Build De Salivation Plants that NEVER need 2B turned On , but can't fn B turned off and NEVER build a Dam and Privation is blamed 4 Water Price Increases .
FFS , I am going to bed , the Left are out and have been eating mushrooms again , 4 sure .
C'mon Pop, it's not the 90s anymore.
Andy
You are living in the 70's and are fracking me up with your unlimited examples .
I am truely , underwhelmed at your ability 2 Nationalise , yourself .
I asked 4 help , but mate , U don't deliver .
Do U work 4 a government ?
Go to bed Pop.
I am happy 2 wait Andy .
Its an important debate and had a nap this afternoon , after a bath ( first one in 20 years :) !
Get 2 work , just One name ffs !
Ok examples of when privatisation has failed in Australia.
- privatisation of Australia’s container ports.
The most efficient container port in Australia (as measured by the crane rate) is Fremantle – the only one whose port authority remains in public hands.
- TAFE.
The effect of privatisation was to give strong incentives to enrol as many students as possible, while keeping costs to a minimum.
Bogus courses proliferated and aggressive marketers enrolled students who had little or no chance of completing their courses.
- Hospitals
La Trobe Regional Hospital, Modbury Hospital in South Australia, Port Macquarie Hospital, Robina Hospital all returned to public sector management after failed privatisations.
- Electricity
As an example, Jeff Kennett sold off Victoria’s electricity assets for $23.5bn, but it has been estimated that last year alone the electricity industry made $23bn in profit from Victorian consumers and businesses.
- Roads
Transurban monopoly. Say no more.
Let's talk about efficiency.
There are definitely many cases where efficiency has improved but it's not a given.
Since the trend towards privatisation began, the growth in middle managers and salespeople in Australia’s utility sector has been extraordinary.
For example, between 1997 and 2012 the energy, gas and water sector – where most of the privatisation was taking place – saw its sales force grow from 1,000 to 6,000, its business, human resource and marketing numbers swell from 2,000 to 9,000, and the number of general purpose managers explode from 6,000 to 19,000.
At the same time, the number of technicians and trade workers increased by just 28%.
In other words, one of the least visible but most important issues associated with the change in ownership of public assets is the impact on apprenticeships and skills.
Pop, the heyday of privatisation has been and gone.
Daniel Andrews plans to re-establish a publicly owned state electricity commission.
Malcolm Turnbull created Snowy 2.0, Barnaby Joyce is enormously proud of the publicly owned inland rail corporation, and the Queensland government – having failed in prior bids to privatise its electricity generators – recently announced $62bn worth of new public investment in renewable energy via its state-owned electricity companies.
I'll say it again - privatisation has failed and the politics of privatisation have failed also.
You Marxist Andy. Guess I’m a Marxist too. Sad times for Australia.
I don't think you have to be a Marxist to be looking out for the public interest.
Keep fighting the good fight seeds.
well if the swiss can do it...
https://modernity.news/2024/04/06/swiss-to-hold-referendum-that-will-res...
that's one day of albo's migrant arrivals covered...
literally!
(should be ready in a coupla years...)
labor's totally on top of it
Construction is well underway on 82 new social and affordable homes at Stones Corner in Brisbane.
— Steven Miles (@StevenJMiles) April 5, 2024
Here’s a sneak peek. pic.twitter.com/Zu0By5ZWsp
all looking a bit russo communist too
a bit back to the future ghetto russo communist...
Morning Andy
Thanks for the examples and there are some good examples , which I will have a go at responding 2 .
Private Hospitals are ALL coping much better than our Public Hospitals ( same with Schools ) .
A Regional Hospital may have 2B Public .
Not sure re a TAFE ??
RAIL , Our State Government couldn't run our Trains or Ticketing system , we are Private as a result . Queensland Rail also is better now , in Private hands .
Ports - shit Patricks FIXED Melbournes Port , it was a nightmare . The whole of Australia's Transport Logistics , from Port 2 Consumer , is handled by ONE group .
POWER - You have 2 B joking , surely . Our State Government has turned OFF Coal , won't allow Gas 2 B Fracked ( so can't get it out of the fn ground ) and is now using diesel 2 help Keep our State ON ffs !
We have to import Gas from fn Queensland ffs !
I will point out again CBA , its now our Most Efficient Bank .
CSL find and treats Blood , better than ANY company in the World .
Do U really thing a Government Run Milk Bar would give better service than a privately owned business ?
We are spending most of the time talking about how our Governments have let us Down .
I sure don't want them running our business , leave it to people who Care more about the business , the people who Risk their Livelihoods and put their OWN Money Up , on the Line .
Andy M
Javier Milei gave a Speech at Davos 2 the WEF , it's on U Tube .
The theme is on a Collective/Socialist OR A Capitalist approach .
Argentina started Private , for a few decades and was firing and then turned Collective .
100 Years of going backwards , was the end result .
Private/ Capitalism Grows things , see what's happened since the Industrial Revolution .
Before that happened , the World was almost Stagnant ( didn't have GDP growth for 2 thousand years .
Milei îs the Expert on this , maybe listen 2 him ?
I drove past the ACT yesterday , but still heard The Car Crash re the Immigration Law Labor tried 2 Ram Through Parliament House .
Also heard the Federal Gas Minister say that Queensland is forced 2 do the Heavy Lifting and Exporting its Gas 2 Victoria .
The Vic Gas Minister Exploded haha , and didn't like having 2 Pay Export Prices , 2 get the Stuff here .
Gosh , why are Labor , all of a sudden , as Transparent as a fn Brick .
So , secret squirrel since Voldy ???
That Claire women looks Totally Out of her depth .
And WE do have an Immigration Minister !
It's a guy ( a Back Room Type ? ) .
The Government is sure looking Desperate imho .
What's happening , everything was OK , at Christmas time and Albo was feeling the LOVE ?
sypkan wrote:do you really believe privatisation of electricity has been a success?
I haven't looked into it...
but an interesting study would be electricity prices before and after privatisation
not immediately after, but now, 2 or 3 decades down the track...
I find it hard to believe they are now reliatively cheaper
very hard to believe
same with water... i miss the days when kids would drink from any front yard tap in the street...
I may be a romanticising old fool... but privatisation of water did more than just making prices higher...
and speaking of romanticising old fools, I remember back in my apprenticeship days, my middle aged tradesman boss, argueing vehemently that basic services like electricity and water should remain in government control... because they are just that... basic services...
similar to current debates about housing
why is there NO debate, AT ALL regarding basic services?
'the market' decides... badly...
for all but the profiteers
a massive fail...
from you know which side of politics...
My understanding is many states still are public owned, its only Vic & SA that is fully privatised.
(see graphic and link below)
So are the prices really that different from state to state?
SA is also possibly the most progressive renewable's wise. (not including Tas and their Hydro based system)
Maybe traditionally public energy owned systems made sense as once a one centralised system, but with renewable's i think privatisation makes much more sense with renewables as creates competition and innovation.
IMHO its silly to say privatisation or public owned either work or dont work there is pros and cons both ways and examples for both working and not working, but as a general rule if there can be competition then privatisation makes sense if its a monopoly then being public owned makes sense.
That said id much prefer governments, be it federal, state, councils just stick to the basics and minimum possible involvement in anything where possible as they are terribly inefficient and the less control they have over our life's the better.
https://www.energynetworks.com.au/resources/fact-sheets/guide-to-austral...
From Collective Farms to Collective Energy Power and Collective Education , it ALL been PROVEN 2B a Collective Failure and has killed Millions over hundreds of Years .
IF a Government doesn't HAVE 2 do something , it shouldn't .
Name ONE Industry , that ANY Government should have control over ie B a Monopoly ffs , not including Printing Money , Collecting Monet ( ATO , Blue Poles ) , Immigration Numbers and Defence !
If Industries don't jump out at U , the Default HAS 2 Always try Private First ( don't waste Money ) .
I wouldn't Call a Government Person 2 Fix anything , I own , why would I ?
I need things done quickly !
The Government can Run the Safety Net , for our needy !
What's going ON , with Immigration laws atm ?
I am also hearing different numbers came in last year , now 550k ? Or is it 700k ?
Does the Immigration Minister Guy know ?
I was Slow and just remembered their name , Qube Logistic's .
Government used to own our Ports , Railways and lots of the logistic Stuff needed to Run these Business's .
Qube moves about 40% of Everything IN and Out of Australia now and ARE Regulated , 2 ensure they don't become a Monopoly .
They Own Ports , Railways , Roads , Storage Facilities and move everything from Iron Ore , to Grains , etc etc and are a Logistical Expert .
They would LOVE to compete against Government in ANY Sector .
Look at Apple , Microsoft , the Internet , all ideas from a Private person , like Ford .
What did Stalin invent ffs ???
Government Collective Thinking , just works against an Individuals Freedom of Choice .
Freedom is ALWAYS more important , than Equality !!!
It's human personality Stuff and its So fn Cool !
For Australia 2 get 2 Zero CO2 in 2050 , Australia WILL have 2 agree 2 give UP freedoms .
We will have 2 Ban O/s travelling except 4 family reasons .
Us young people will have turn OFF our heaters in Winter , to give it 2 the needy .
We won't drive as much .
We will have 2 become like Greta , willing 2 make sacrifices .
Doing the Hard work won't B easy at all !
Might as well put this up in the politics subforum, to spare the front page. It's 18 months away or so, but here we go.
This is how Dutton wins:
https://www.afr.com/politics/enter-the-liberal-party-working-class-heroe...